Acting out of turn
Ernst Dieter Martin
Hi all,
I recently get more and more upset by players acting out of turn.
A) I'm in late position and a player in front of me throws his hand
away, acting out of turn. Of course, 2 or 3 players behind him do
the same thing and I face a player who hasn't acted yet, with nobody
else in between. Of course, he raises. There is nothing left to do
than folding myself and to say thank you to the player acting out of
turn with my most sarcastic voice and in an angry manner.
Which is usually followed by an explanation what he just did to
me and he shouldn't do it again. And it is usually ignored.
B) A player to my left folds out of turn and is followed by a string
of more folds. I raise with my usual steal hands.
C) 3 way showdown. Player A bets, Player B asks for time or thinks for
a short moment, Player C folds. The conclusions are left to the
student.
D) After the flop with 4-5 players, UTG doesn't act. The next player
checks, followed by a chain reaction of checks. UTG bets.
E) RL, last night: 4 players see the flop, 2 players check, 3rd player
makes a rolling motion with his hand and finger, I check. Player 3
bets.
I should have called for a ruling. As it turns out, I got out of my
anger real fast but player 3 goes on tilt, because he doesn't get much
reaction for his small moves.
F) The most annoying out of turn act, which happened to me: It is 4
handed
on the turn, player 1 bets, I ask for time and start pondering the
situation
(I've forgot what hands were involved, but they aren't important).
The player to my left impatiently puts his chips in front of him and
says
"call". I tell him that I now need even more time because of his
interruption. He takes his chips back and I finally call. He raises !
I ask the dealer for a ruling: Out of turn action in this card room is
not binding.
G) And related to Steve Brecher's comment on acting in turn in a pot or
no limit game: Even in limit holdem it is important to wait with your
action until the player to your right has completed his action. I've
seen players with enough chips for a raise in their hands raising, when
the next player started to fold and calling, when the next player
started
to call.
I understand it is almost impossible to educate the players in the case
A-D to act in turn. And if the player sits to your left, it even isn't
wanted. But any ideas to get the worst offenders in line are welcome.
But how should I handle case E. I might have called for a ruling,
and regardless of the outcome, cool down again as fast as possible.
There seems no protection against case F, except to move to that
players
left.
Bye,
Jupiler
(aka E.D. Martin)
cat...@cris.com
jup...@ix.netcom.com(Ernst Dieter Martin) wrote:
>Hi all,
>I recently get more and more upset by players acting out of turn.
<snip of various situations snipped>
As a dealer, betting and folding out of turn is one of my very worst
pet peeves. I'm wondering why the dealer in each of your scenarios
didn't do something; it's tough to stop the first guy that acts out of
turn but I can nearly always stop any subsequent action by simply
stating (loudly), "Stop, stop, stop! I still have action here
<gesturing to the player who has not yet acted>." Maybe because it
bothers me so much to see players do it, I'm stricter about it than
other dealers...I suppose because I play as well I know the effect
such behavior can have on a hand and therefore go out of my way to
keep it from happening.
Regarding your question about out-of-turn action being binding...none
of the card rooms I've worked in have rules about this, but it's
pretty much an unspoken thing where I work that a dealer does have the
discretion to warn a habitual offender that if the behavior continues,
the action will indeed be binding. In the nearly three years I've
been dealing, I've only had to do this a few times...in all cases, the
person was reprimanded for acting out of turn at least three times
before I finally took drastic measures.
In addition, I always take into account whether the person is
genuinely trying to make a "move"...ie, announcing a raise out of turn
(and often in last position), which makes other players check to him,
and then he checks. Really cheap-shot way to get a free card, and
something like this gets only *one* warning from me before I make that
person stick to the "verbal commitments stand" rule (it is a rule but
a rarely enforced rule). Call me a bitch, but I simply will not have
players believing they can do this kind of crap while I'm dealing.
The vast majority of the players to whom I deal are regulars and they
know which dealers they can push around and which they can't; nearly
all of them are appreciative of a dealer who runs a game fairly and
won't let a player take cheap shots (at least that's what they tell me
:).
Anyway, you might want to check on the "verbal commitment" rule rather
than an "out-of-turn-action-stands" rule. As I said, it's a
little-enforced rule (because it really doesn't have to be in most
cases) but it's a handy thing to enforce when a player is particularly
abusive.
-Shauna
aka RoxiBlue
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Poker dealer for the world-famous Binion's Horseshoe in Tunica, MS
Questions about MS gaming? Email me!
fthr...@aol.com
Thought I'd seen it all 'till this one came along:
On the turn in limit game, player 1 bets. While player #2 is thinking,
player #3 shoves a stack of chips representing at least two-bets into the
pot and releases his hand from the stack. I, being player #4 with the
nuts wanted the raise. Player #2 finally calls the original bet. AFTER #
2 calls, player #3 reaches back for his chips, withdrawing the raise
leaving a single bet. I object.
Floorman (whom I normally respect) issues a warning to the player, arguing
that acting out of turn is not binding. I argued that once #2 called, the
chips of #3 were in-turn and active in the pot. To no avail, the floorman
allowed the call to stand.
My hands were tied. If I object, then raise, everyone folds. If I don't
object, the scumbag positively reinforces his naughty behavior. A third
option sees me flat calling the nuts to allow everyone a cheap shot at
drawing out on me. I raise, they fold. The action killed my pot.
The person in question CONTINUALLY attempts to angle for the pot using
such techniques and the house and dealers know it. There are others that
have the same MO, and the house refuses to strictly enforce the rules
because of the "vagueness" of the situation. Sadly, the house needs to
get some cajones. Without strict enforcement such situations will
continue to plague the game.
Doug.
--
Doug.
"Oh Jesus! I just stuck the tip in! Oh my God!"
Mark
I would think the best way to handle any of these examples would be to
politely correct the offender and not let other players you consider to
be bad/rude/foolish/inconsiderate dictate your mood in a game. Have you
considered that other players may be intentionally trying to get you
neck deep in rectum? In 20 years I can't recall that many different
examples of acting out of turn. There must be a reason it's happening
to you so much.
psb...@aol.com
In article <19961111202...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
fthr...@aol.com writes:
>On the turn in limit game, player 1 bets. While player #2 is thinking,
>player #3 shoves a stack of chips representing at least two-bets into the
>pot and releases his hand from the stack. I, being player #4 with the
>nuts wanted the raise. Player #2 finally calls the original bet. AFTER
#
>2 calls, player #3 reaches back for his chips, withdrawing the raise
>leaving a single bet. I object.
[Objection failed, and the objection killed our hero's action and costing
him money.]
I don't know where you're playing at, but if it's like Vegas or
California, there are other rooms in town to whom you can bring your
business. I would inform the floorperson/manager that you don't
appreciate this type of angling, and that you'll be taking your business
elsewhere if they don't correct the problem. Also inform them that you'll
be sure to explain this fault to other potential customers whenever the
opportunity presents itself, as you would prefer that all of the
non-anglers follow you to the other cardrooms in town. Be very polite
during this discussion, don't get mad, and don't raise your voice. Just
explain your position honestly.
Greg Raymer
Al Herzberg
Sorry, Mark, but this seems a little like blaming the victim. My own
experience is that players act out of turn quite often and that dealers
rarely penalize the offender. Sometimes it appears to be inadvertent,
sometimes it appears to be a *move*. My (somewhat) standard question to
the dealer when this happens is, "Was there substantial action after the
out-of-turn bet?" This serves to focus attention on the offense and -
perhaps - reduces the frequency.
Here is another example of *fancy moves* that I was party to last night.
In a four table H'E tournament one player would make a motion to muck
his cards with one hand while holding chips in the other hand. He would
gauge the reaction of his opponents and, depending on what he saw,
sometimes turn the muck into a fumble and throw the chips in with his
other hand. Sometimes not. This guy was quick and slick! He didn't do
anything that you could publicly object to, but it was obvious (at least
to me who got tricked by him once!) what he was up to. So, as they say,
don't get mad, get even?
At the final table he was the second player to my left. I had a garbage
hand on the big blind. The player on my left had mucked before the flop.
The player with the fancy moves went all-in on the flop. Everyone mucked
around to the player on my right, who delayed awhile before taking
action. To make his decision easier, I made it a little obvious that I
was going to muck my hand. Usually I play a very straightforward game,
but in this case I was just in a mood to get even with Mr. Fancy Moves.
I didn't actually muck out of turn - just cocked my wrist rather
obviously. Nothing Mr. FM could object to, but it was pretty obvious
what I was up to!
Player on my right called and I completed my muck. And the player
immediately on my left admonished me for my FM! He is a sharp guy who
doesn't miss much. Just goes to show that I should probably leave that
fancy stuff to others more skillful than I!
The question I would propose is this - "Is eye-for-an-eye type behavior
such as I practiced in this situation warrented at the poker table?" Or
should we just ignore and tolerate people who put Fancy Moves on us.
Regards, Al H.
Dave Budd
In article <3288E2...@earthlink.net> Al Herzberg <ahe...@earthlink.net> writes:
[snipped discussion of fake-signalled mucks and early-signalled mucks]
Is this stuff all Caro's fault for publishing The Book Of Tells?
>Player on my right called and I completed my muck. And the player
>immediately on my left admonished me for my FM! He is a sharp guy who
>doesn't miss much. Just goes to show that I should probably leave that
>fancy stuff to others more skillful than I!
Maybe he was subtly complimenting you on letting the other guy take a shot
at Mr Fake Tell. Or just letting you know he was able to spot your Early
Signals with the implication that others might be able to also, and possibly
even that, if the signal consistently benefits one player, it would lead to
suspicions of collusion.
>The question I would propose is this - "Is eye-for-an-eye type behavior
>such as I practiced in this situation warrented at the poker table?" Or
>should we just ignore and tolerate people who put Fancy Moves on us.
Folk who don't spot these Fake Tells aren't going to be affected by them.
Folk who do spot them ought to be able to spot they're fake.
So in the end they shouldn't make a lot of difference.
-- If Replying to my post, delete the leading x from the To: field
Dave Budd D.B...@mcc.ac.uk http://www.man.ac.uk/~zlsiida +44 161 275 6033
JUNK EMAIL: Storage costs money. I charge for spool space: rates on web page
Warren Sander
In article <3288E2...@earthlink.net>, Al Herzberg <ahe...@earthlink.net> writes:
|>Mark wrote:
|>>
|>> I would think the best way to handle any of these examples would be to
|>> politely correct the offender and not let other players you consider to
|>> be bad/rude/foolish/inconsiderate dictate your mood in a game. Have you
|>> considered that other players may be intentionally trying to get you
|>> neck deep in rectum? In 20 years I can't recall that many different
|>> examples of acting out of turn. There must be a reason it's happening
|>> to you so much.
|>
|
I had an interesting 'acting out of turn' happen to me at Foxwoods on Sunday.
I was in a 5-10 omaha 8 or better game. I was sitting in seat 10 (to the right
of the dealer), the button was at seat 2 or 3, On the river I had to re-evaluate
my hand. My lock low was suddenly not so lock low but my high was still the
nuts. Since there was only 1 card to low on the flop (the turn and river
completed the low) I was trying to figure out what everyone had and if I was
going to be quartered or not.
The betting got around to me, 3 people in, no raise, I was thinking about
raising, I asked for time to look at my cards and the board and figure out
what could beat me. The dealer acknowledged my time request, I started to grab
my chips and say raise when the player in seat 3 suddenly turned over his hand
and said 'I have a straight and and 4-5 for low'. I then got my 'RAISE' out
an argument ensued, I had a higher straight and a better low, but I was in the
act of moving the chips and speaking when he flipped his cards.
The floor ruled that the raise didn't count and wanted to say I was out of
the hand but I had my cards and the deal told the floor that I did ask for
time. So I won the hand (both ways) but I didn't get the extra $40.00 from
the raise.
From then on the player in seat 3 would stand up and in a very sarcasticly
ask 'has the guy in seat one acted yet???'
Needless to say he was trying to put me on tilt and was upsetting the
entire table and he did after a while flip his cards up when another player
had the action. Again with the 3rd best hand on the table.
--
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Garrett Choi
>As a dealer, betting and folding out of turn is one of my very worst
>pet peeves. I'm wondering why the dealer in each of your scenarios
>didn't do something;
Okay, one more story, having little to do with the subject, but an
example of a situation where a dealer actually did something. And it
has the bonus of a happy ending.
6-12 hold'em, Southern Cal, a couple of weeks ago.
There's this totally annoying guy who thought it was funny to say
"raise" and then muck his hand on the river. For example, someone
would bet, he'd say "Raise!" pause slightly and then muck his hand and
laugh. It seemed pretty obvious to me that this was an angle to look
for tells or to try and get the other guy to muck first.
This was really annoying the dealers, but they didn't say anything
because nobody was objecting. (Debate on whether this is good or bad
placed aside for the moment). Or maybe it was just that this guy was
running over the table (he had four racks of chips on the table) and
tipped well when he (often) won. (Debate on whether this is good or
bad placed aside for the moment).
Anyway, there was this one dealer I see there pretty often on the
weekends, and he's also a player. He's a very ethical dealer (no
rabbit hunting, chip passing, etc. on *his* watch) and proved (by
what's to come) that he couldn't be bought either.
I pick up 78s and limp in. Flop comes 3 6 9, 6 and 9 of my suit.
Huge draw, usual 6-12 flop pot with a raise and many players. I'm
happy. I'm betting all the way. Turn was some face card, ends up
three handed with me in the middle, Mr. "Raise!" behind me. River is
an A, (I miss completely). BUT, the early position guy throws his
hand away! (check-out). So I decide to commit a 6-12 sin and bluff.
I bet 6 chips. "Raise!" the guy yells, and then mucks his hand. I
debate the moral implications about what I'm thinking of doing for
about 0.0000987324 seconds and then:
Me: "Three Bets." (I start building a wall)
Dealer: (*HUGE* smile breaks out). (Looks at other guy).
"Three Bets."
Other Guy: (Stops smiling). "I fold."
Dealer: "Three bets."
Other Guy: "I mucked!"
Dealer: "You said raise."
Other Guy: "I don't have any cards! What do you want me to do?"
Dealer: "Put 12 chips out there."
Other Guy: "I don't have a f*cking hand!"
Other Guy: (Looks at me) "I don't have a hand."
Me: (shrug from behind my wall of 18 chips).
Dealer: "Floorman on table 54."
(Floorman arrives, dealer explains what happened).
Floorman to Other Guy: "Did you say raise?"
Other Guy: "I mucked my hand."
Floorman: "Did you say raise before you mucked your hand."
Other Guy: "Yes, but..."
Floorman: "Put 12 chips out there."
Other Guy: "I don't have a hand. Iiiiiii..."
Floorman: "Sir, you said raise. Put 12 chips out."
(Pause).
Other Guy: (Splashes 12 chips into the pot).
Me: (I turn over absolutely nothing)
Other guy babbles, "What?? What does he have?? What is that? A
pair?? What does he have?" Dealer decides to rub it in and pushes up
the A, face card, and 9 from the board. "Ace high." He declares.
Dealer pushes pot, I count out 12 chips and give them to the dealer
who looks genuinely surprised and says, "Thank you, sir!" I smile and
rap table. He smiles. Exactly seven other people at the table smile.
Next hand.
Garrett. :)
gc...@cco.caltech.edu
Ernst-Dieter Martin
Garrett Choi wrote:
> Anyway, there was this one dealer I see there pretty often on the
> weekends, and he's also a player. He's a very ethical dealer (no
> rabbit hunting, chip passing, etc. on *his* watch) and proved (by
> what's to come) that he couldn't be bought either.
>
What exactly is rabbit hunting ? The Bicycle club has a sign:
Absolutely no rabbit hunting, which in my naive nature looked
like a joke to me :)
Jup.
Sandy MacTavish
Garrett Choi wrote:
> Okay, one more story, having little to do with the subject, but an
> example of a situation where a dealer actually did something. And it
> has the bonus of a happy ending.
>
> 6-12 hold'em, Southern Cal, a couple of weeks ago.
>
> There's this totally annoying guy who thought it was funny to say
> "raise" and then muck his hand on the river. For example, someone
> would bet, he'd say "Raise!" pause slightly and then muck his hand and
> laugh. It seemed pretty obvious to me that this was an angle to look
> for tells or to try and get the other guy to muck first.
great story of annoying guy burning himself
should happen more often
Don Rieck
Ernst-Dieter Martin (mar...@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de) wrote:
:
: What exactly is rabbit hunting ? The Bicycle club has a sign:
: Absolutely no rabbit hunting, which in my naive nature looked
: like a joke to me :)
Wow, an rgp question I actually think I know the answer to...
Rabit Hunting is the practice of showing the rest of the cards that
WOULD have been on the board had the hand continued. In other words,
it's you and me heads up after the flop. I check, you bet, I think about it
long and hard but realize that you are a lucky player, see your powerful
winning force, and fold. As the dealer's pushing you the pot I ask to see what
the turn and river would have been......
Of course, since most of the advice that Mason & I post to the newsgroup
is crap, the above is probably wrong :)
Cheers !
Don 'Bingo' Rieck
Charles Haynes
In article <328B91...@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de>,
>> Anyway, there was this one dealer I see there pretty often on the
>> weekends, and he's also a player. He's a very ethical dealer (no
>> rabbit hunting, chip passing, etc. on *his* watch) and proved (by
>> what's to come) that he couldn't be bought either.
>>
>What exactly is rabbit hunting ? The Bicycle club has a sign:
>Absolutely no rabbit hunting, which in my naive nature looked
>like a joke to me :)
Looking at the next card after folding to see if you would have
"gotten there." In particular showing the turn and/or river after an
uncontested pot.
-- Charles
cat...@cris.com
gc...@cco.caltech.edu (Garrett Choi) wrote:
>Okay, one more story, having little to do with the subject, but an
>example of a situation where a dealer actually did something. And it
>has the bonus of a happy ending.
<snip>
What a fabulous story, Garrett! This will definitely be fodder for
the breakroom at work tonight. ;-)
-Shauna
Denny Williams
Ernst-Dieter Martin wrote:
>
> Garrett Choi wrote:
>
> > Anyway, there was this one dealer I see there pretty often on the
> > weekends, and he's also a player. He's a very ethical dealer (no
> > rabbit hunting, chip passing, etc. on *his* watch) and proved (by
> > what's to come) that he couldn't be bought either.
> >
>
> What exactly is rabbit hunting ? The Bicycle club has a sign:
> Absolutely no rabbit hunting, which in my naive nature looked
> like a joke to me :)
>
Rabbit hunting is simply trying to see what the next card would have
been.
fthr...@aol.com
Fun one tonite:
In a rather mild 6/12 hold'em game, angler, about mid-position uses three
shoves of his chips to get three $2 ships in the pot. Once they were
there, he glances at the softy to his left who has six chips and is ready
to raise, then grabs the potential raiser's arm and says loudly "Wait a
minute, I thought I was the big blind!!!" and grabs his chips back!!!
I had a 6-2 offsuit. Who was I to complain?
Incidentally, softy who DID raise also won the pot. Wonder how he'll feel
when he really needs that six-dollars.
Mark Rafn
>>Garrett Choi wrote:
>>> He's a very ethical dealer (no rabbit hunting, chip passing, etc. on
>>> *his* watch) and proved (by what's to come) that he couldn't be bought
>>> either.
>Ernst-Dieter Martin <mar...@rhein-neckar.netsurf.de> wrote:
>>What exactly is rabbit hunting ?
Charles Haynes <hay...@best.com> wrote:
>Looking at the next card after folding to see if you would have
>"gotten there." In particular showing the turn and/or river after an
>uncontested pot.
Ok. Why is this unethical? It's certainly a time waster, but I can't
see any other bad effects. Is it considered bad form because it can put
players on tilt? Showing the final card(s) is a very common practice at
my regular home game (in the rare case that everyone folds before the
river) - should I try to put a stop to it?
--
Mark Rafn da...@halcyon.com <http://www.halcyon.com/dagon/> !G
"The only intuitive user interface is the nipple. After that, it's
all learned. " - Bruce Ediger, talking about X Windows
Mark W. Sadausky
Ernst-Dieter Martin wrote:
<snip>
> What exactly is rabbit hunting ? The Bicycle club has a sign:
> Absolutely no rabbit hunting, which in my naive nature looked
> like a joke to me :)
>
> Jup.
I think it's in the FAQ.
Basically refers to looking at unplayed/unseen cards to see if you
"would have gotten there" if you played out the hand. It makes sense to
prohibit it as it's a useless waste of time.
Mark
Jazbo Burns
san...@rm222.enet.dec.com (Warren Sander) described a $5&10 Omaha/8 hand
at Foxwoods in which he had called for time:
>The dealer acknowledged my time request, I started to grab
>my chips and say raise when the player in seat 3 suddenly turned over his hand
>and said 'I have a straight and and 4-5 for low'. I then got my 'RAISE' out
>an argument ensued, I had a higher straight and a better low, but I was in the
>act of moving the chips and speaking when he flipped his cards.
>The floor ruled that the raise didn't count and wanted to say I was out of
>the hand but I had my cards and the deal told the floor that I did ask for
>time. So I won the hand (both ways) but I didn't get the extra $40.00 from
>the raise.
This seems truly bizarre. Since the player volunarily exposed his
hand out of turn, it might be possible to rule *his* hand dead, but
never yours. Also, I can't understand the reasoning to disallow the
raise. You had made no error and had not given up your right to raise
by any action. If this is typical of floor rulings at Foxwoods, they
really need to improve.
--jazbo
--
-----
Return mail should go to jbu...@monmouth.com, regardless of what From: says!
keys...@aol.com
In article <328C00...@deltanet.com>, Denny Williams
<den...@deltanet.com> writes:
>> Jup.
>Rabbit hunting is simply trying to see what the next card would have
>been.
I don't want to know what the next card would have been because I don't
want to 2nd guess myself if I think I made the correct decision in
folding. However, other than that, what's the harm? Why isn't it allowed?
Mark
Staypuff
>>Rabbit hunting is simply trying to see what the next card would have
>I don't want to know what the next card would have been because I don't
>want to 2nd guess myself if I think I made the correct decision in
>folding. However, other than that, what's the harm? Why isn't it allowed?
[Mark]
I think the original "ethical dealer" comment was merely meaning that
the dealer enforced all house rules. I don't think there is anything
wrong with rabbit hunting - it's just that it slows down the game.
At games with a time charge, this is unfair to the other players.
At games with a rake or button charge, it reduces the income of the
house.
Happy flops!
--
Joe Francis email: jfra...@apple.com
Staypuff Marshmallow Man ----- Don't Cross the Streams!
Nobody had better try to pin the above on Apple Computer.
Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
keys...@aol.com writes:
>I don't want to know what the next card would have been because I don't
>want to 2nd guess myself if I think I made the correct decision in
>folding.
huh? how does the outcome of the next card affect whether your
decision to fold was correct or not? it may make you feel better to
find out "oh, i would have missed anyway" but it still doesn't mean you
were right or wrong.
if there are 4 big bets in the pot on the turn and your only outs are
a gutshot and you call a bet and get there do you really think it
was correct just because you hit your out?
-- Z.
____
I'm nice... He's nice... and we're both f---ing lunatics. \ /
Can I come in please? [_Flatliners_] \/
Robert Copps
Several posters have asked what is wrong with looking at the next cards
after a hand has been played.
Aside from the waste of time there is something seriously wrong. The next
card may give players who folded additional information on the hand of the
winner, information they have no right to have. For instance, if the winner
was representing an ace high flush and the folder drops only to see the ace
in question would have come out on the river, the loser learns something he
had no right to know about the hand of the winner.
--
--Bob.
Steve Brecher
keys...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <328C00...@deltanet.com>, Denny Williams
> <den...@deltanet.com> writes:
>
> >> Jup.
> >Rabbit hunting is simply trying to see what the next card would have
> >been.
>
> I don't want to know what the next card would have been because I don't
> want to 2nd guess myself if I think I made the correct decision in
> folding. However, other than that, what's the harm? Why isn't it allowed?
There are a couple of reasons why it might not be allowed. It's
definitely not allowed in major tournaments, for example.
--It wastes time.
--It might reveal information about a non-disclosed hand, i.e., disclosing
cards that are not in the hand. While it might be rare that this
"negative" information is significant, it's possible.
--
st...@brecher.reno.nv.us (Steve Brecher)
Tom Weideman
There is one other reason that I can think of (though all-in-all the
waste-of-time reason is the best). When players are allowed to rabbit-hunt,
they are (slightly) less likely to go fishing (calling a long shot bet to see
the river). The more fishing, the more action, and the more action, the better
the game is, which improves the house rake (especially if the rake is based on
percentage, but also indirectly for all games, simply by virtue of the
existence of a good game... which won't break early, attracts more players,
etc.).
Tom Weideman
Ed Oliveri
Hmmm, it's actually worse than just a waste of time. Every unplayed
card that you see is a card that could NOT have been in your opponent's
hand. In other words, you've just gotten information about your
opponent's hand without paying for it. How would YOU like it if rabbit
hunting revealed to the table that you just bluffed them out of a pot?
--
Ed Oliveri, eoli...@bsi.att.com
sa...@aol.com
Rabbit hunting is a time waster but not as bad as all the changing cards,
changing seats , changing decks, and getting set ups, Unless the cards are
actualy damaged in someway its all nonsense.
Edward Simon
In article <19961126192...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sa...@aol.com
wrote:
>
> Rabbit hunting is a time waster but not as bad as all the changing cards,
> changing seats , changing decks, and getting set ups, Unless the cards are
> actualy damaged in someway its all nonsense.
As an occasional rabbit hunter, I want to say I agree with you completely!
"The Professor"
rsooy
Personally, as a dealer, there is only ONE person that I'll let engage in
"Rabbit Hunting"!!!!
His Name??????
(See next Page)
Elmer Fudd!!!!
(SHHHHHH!!! Be vewy quiet! I'm hunting Wabbits! hahahahahaha!)
--
RICHARD SOOY,
Poker dealer, Trump Taj Mahal (this line added for info purposes only)
" I played my guts, when I should've played the *nuts* !!"
Home Page: http://www.intserv.com/~rsooy
tbill
Rabbit hunting should not be allowed. Player reluctantly folds, and
snivels "let's see the last 2"
Cards come out that show the bettor did not have the hand he represented.
Player sneers "Nice bluff!"
More of a problem in Omaha than Holdem, but if I were King there wouldn't
be any.
TBill
Charles Haynes
In article <19961126192...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
<sa...@aol.com> wrote:
>Rabbit hunting is a time waster but not as bad as all the changing cards,
>changing seats , changing decks, and getting set ups, Unless the cards are
>actualy damaged in someway its all nonsense.
Interesting. You put changing seats in the same class as asking for a
new deck or setup?
I'll often ask for a seat change to get position on a particular
player or group of players. Either after a maniac or before a
weak-tight rock or calling station.
Irish Mike
I agree with your post regarding time wasters with the exception
of changing seats - this is an important part of 7 stud strategy
and can make a real difference in your results.
Irish Mike
--
Irish Mike