Either casino would for a low limit player but if want Hi low 1-5 you
such go to the Taj.

1: The drive from center city Philly will take you approximately 1-1.5
hrs about 65miles
2:The worst part of the drive is getting over the Walt Witman bridge at
rush (between 4 & 6 ) it is a straight drive Rt 42 to Rt76 ( one runs in
to the other) right into A.C.
3: You can park in either the Taj or the Trop's parking garage they are
both convenient to the poker rooms
4: The rate is 10% max. $4.00

A business trip to Philly later this month should
provide the opportunity for a weekday evening run
out to Atlantic City.  A perusal of old r.g.p posts
found in DejaNews with the keyword "AC poker" and
a check of Jazzbo's AC site has led me to believe
that the Tropicana or the Taj would be the best choices
for my game,  $1 to $5 stud or Hi-Lo.  The 10 table
glassed in no-smoking room at the Trop sounds inviting.

However, never having been in AC, I'm open to suggestion.

Questions for the forum:

How brutal is the drive from suburban Philly given a rush
hour departure?

Any suggestions for a low stakes stud player?

Given my probable time crunch,  where is it easiest
to park,  walk to the card room,  and find an open seat?

How do they get away with a $4 rake?  Other locations
rake up to $3.

Thanx

Dave... a $4.00 MAXIMUM rake (10%up to $4.00) is pretty much the norm
in AC...
I, Personally, have yet to see (or hear) of a maximum rake of $3.00 in
Atlantic City...

**************************************************************
Richard Sooy,
 Trump Taj Mahal Poker Dealer (For information purposes only)

   Email:  rs...@intserv.com
           rs...@toke.com
           richard.s...@juno.com
PLEASE NOTE:
  Opinions expressed are my own, and do not necessarily
        Represent those of the management of the
                    Trump Organization
**************************************************************

sorry, no experience here.

Entrance to the Trop or Taj is fairly easy. The Taj poker room is just
across the hall from valet park, the Trop Poker Club is up the
escalator from hotel side valet park.

The Trop has a $4 rake at the level you mention but please consider
what else it has.
1. free chili for all players
2. free roll tournaments
3. monthly club championship for qualified players (free roll) $3700+
prize money
4. glass enclosed smoke free poker area
5. 50cent/hr comp allowance

Feedback from many customers indicate they don't mind the rake as long
as the service and amenities are good. There's more but this already
borders on an ad. Please excuse, posting this way provides a built-in
credibility check. :-)

Aces,
Will

*** VP Poker/Simulcast Tropicana, Atlantic City, NJ ***
*** The opinions and statements made herein are     ***
*** personal and do not necessarily reflect the     ***
*** position of my employer.                        ***

Free Chili,  sounds like the Trop will be my stop.   The $4 max
rake must reflect a higher cost of doing business on the east
coast,  as midwest cardrooms rake 10% up to a max of $3.

I agree with the positive comments about the Trop poker room in
AC.  Personally, I would pay an extra dollar rake just for the
glassed in non-smoking area, let alone the other comps, which  
include an excellent room rate for poker players.  In addition,
it is the most state-of-the-art poker room I have seen.

I go to Vegas about 5 times a year to play poker but am
considering going to AC and staying/playing at the Trop for three
reasons:

1.  Glassed in non-smoking area.

2.  Much shorter flight time and no time zone change - which
means being better rested when I play.

3. Emphasis on 7 stud rather than flop games.

Irish Mike

You think you have itbad?? here in canada the rake is 10% or 5
dollars.Only good thing wis at the private clubs where the rake is cheap.

1- 20 you "donate" nothing
21-50 you "donate" 1 dollar
51-99 you donate  2 dollars
100+ you donate 3
Plus tips to the dealeer because that is how he earns his money not by a
wage.
Scott

Depends.  Which suburb?  If you have to take the Schuykill Expressway (aka
the Surekill Crawlway, aka the World's Largest Parking Lot)  be prepared
for a llllloooonnnggg drive.  BTW, on the Schuykill, rush hour can run as
late as
8:00-9:00 P.M.

If the "suburbs" are north of Center City, it's a slow go.  If you are
coming from South Philly near the Walt Whitman Bridge,  it is not quite as
bad (unless there is a game at the Vet - Phillies or Eagles (in winter) -
or at the Spectrum - 76ers or Flyers).  

Once into NJ, there is the wonderful North-South Freeway (Rt 42) to the AC
Expressway.  42 pretty much *crawls* in rush hour until you pass Rt. 55.
If you come over the Walt Whitman Bridge, stay to the left.  These 2
"express" lanes move much better than the outside lanes.  (If you take the
Ben Franklin Bridge to I-676 to 42, you cannot get into these inside
lanes.)

When you finally reach the AC Expressway, it is a great relief.  A great
road and a good ride.

Sorry to be so negative, but I have to make the trip from Harrisburg, PA
to AC every week (Wed. nights).  The only "realistic" way to go is down
the Schuykill, over the WW and down rt 42 to the AC Expressway.  I have
tried to time it every way possible and I have only made the Schuykill
drive smoothly ONCE (in 8-9 weeks).

BTW, if you get the chance to drive down in late morning or after 8-9
P.M., it is a much easier trip.

Good luck and HAPPY MOTORING  ;-).

Llew
Llew    

I can't give any opinions about the drive from Philly.

The Trop has a great poker room, easy to get to from valet parking.
It's right upstairs.

Don't worry about the $4 rake.  It's actually 10% of the pot up to $4
maximum.  When playing $1-$5, 7 card stud, the pot is seldom over $30.
Also there is no ante.  Two down cards and 1 up card are free (except
that lowest up card must bet $1 to open the game.

Games tend to be played conservatively.

Good luck!

Kimo

[major cut, llew's fine directions]
Just wanted to add a little traffic saving advice to the Tropicana.

Turn right onto Fairmount at the first light at the end of the A.C.
Expressway. Go approximately one half mile and turn left on Brighton. This
will take you directly into the Trop's valet parking area AND avoid major
traffic on Pacific and Atlantic.

The end of the Expressway is usually a traffic nightmare, especially on
weekends. The alternate route via Fairmount will get you out of most
congestion.

As Llew says, Happy Motoring.

Aces,

Will

*** Will Espin, VP Poker/Race/Keno, Tropicana, A.C. ***
*** Opinions expressed herein are personal and do      ***
*** not necessarily reflect those of my employer.           ***

I'll be working in the Valley Forge area so I expect a lousy
drive down the Surekill and over the Walt Whitman bridge.
Unfortuantely,  my options are limited,  and the alternative
is hanging around the Sheraton watching the tube.

Thanks for the directions.

Will,

An even better way, IMHO (I tried it about a year ago and have used it
ever since):

Take exit 2 on the AC Expressway (next-to-last exit).  This takes you onto
the Black Horse Pike (Rt 322?).  After you cross the last bridge (has a
signal light and gates to close the road when the bridge has to open for a
boat to go "under"; I have never seen this happen, BTW), stay to the left.
 You will see 2 left turn lanes at the light after the bridge.  Turn left
here (don't know the name of the street...sorry).  
Go to Brighton Avenue.  (BTW, the Brighton Avenue street sign us very easy
to spot...it is twice a big as all of the others).  Turn left.  Takes you
right to the
'A' garage (self-park) or continue on to valet parking.

This way avoids all of the mess at the end of the AC Xway.  Give it a try.

Llew  

: > >How do they get away with a $4 rake?  Other locations
: > >rake up to $3.
: > >
: > The Trop has a $4 rake at the level you mention but please consider
: > what else it has.
: > 1. free chili for all players

   Nice, but chili all the time?

: > 2. free roll tournaments

  Unless you are a "regular" this is not much good.  However, freerolls
  are an excellent perk for regulars and might indeed balance out part of
  the excessive rake.

: > 3. monthly club championship for qualified players (free roll) $3700+
: > prize money
: > 4. glass enclosed smoke free poker area

    If you have one O-8 game going, I bet it is not in there.  Smokers
  should be accomodated if convenient.  Right now, you do it the other
  way around  (Assuming what I have read here is accurate.)  I have heard
  the only games in there are stud and maybe a 3-6 holdem.  It should be
  the "main" room with smoking available if you have duplicate games.
  Of course, we wouldn't want to piss off the smokers, so I guess this
  will not happen.  

: > 5. 50cent/hr comp allowance

  OOOoooh  A whole 50 cents an hour.  Wow!  If I come to town for a day
  or two (which I did a couple times a few years back) I have no use for
  the free-rolls and given the price of food in AC casinos, I could play
  10 hours and still not even have enough to cover my bill at a low-end
  eatery.  This is really pretty lame.  If you go to LV, you will get a
  buffet comp for 4 hours of play at almost all casinos.  (and some are
  not even that tight with their comps).  However, since AC has generally
  worse comp policies than LV, I suspect this is pretty competetive there.

: >
: > Feedback from many customers indicate they don't mind the rake as long
: > as the service and amenities are good. There's more but this already
: > borders on an ad. Please excuse, posting this way provides a built-in
: > credibility check. :-)
: >

   I know I have been pretty negative, but what I have heard here gives
  me the impression have done a good job given your circumstances.  I
  hope your room succeeds.  Having gone to the Taj's room, I believe you
  do run a better operation than they do.  However, I would not be proud
  of 50 cent per hour food comps.  

   Jim Morgan

: > Aces,
: > Will

: Free Chili,  sounds like the Trop will be my stop.   The $4 max
: rake must reflect a higher cost of doing business on the east
: coast,  as midwest cardrooms rake 10% up to a max of $3.

On 8 Apr 1997 03:12:48 GMT, James Morgan <jsmo...@umr.edu> wrote:

there.

The Taj comps anywhere from 50 cents/hr to $2.00 /hr, depending on the
level of play....

**************************************************************
Richard Sooy,
 Trump Taj Mahal Poker Dealer (For information purposes only)

   Email:  rs...@intserv.com
           rs...@toke.com
           richard.s...@juno.com
PLEASE NOTE:
  Opinions expressed are my own, and do not necessarily
        Represent those of the management of the
                    Trump Organization
**************************************************************

On 8 Apr 1997 03:12:48 GMT, James Morgan <jsmo...@umr.edu> wrote:

James,
In my original post I mentioned there was more. If you'll excuse the
'advertisement' nature of the information I'd like to provide more
details on the subject.

[snip]

We will probably be changing the selection in the future. Nothing is
truly free. Excessive Chili has its own price. :-)
There are weekly free rolls which do not require any minimum of time
played to qualify. There's a men's tourney on Mondays, ladies' on
Thursday, and a Bad Hair Day (just wear a hat) tourney on Tuesdays.

We want to accomodate as many players as possible. Our layout actually
provides us several different sections including a high limit area
plus the smoke free room. Games are in progress 24 hours a day and
luckily we have never dropped below 3 active games in progress. At
that time we had one game in the high limit area and two in the 'main'
part of the room.
Players who play limits of $10 or above receive $1 per hour comp value
plus FREE food served table side in the high limit room. All players
qualify for a casino rate room when averaging four hours of play per
day.  
[snip]
Thank you for taking the time to express your opinions. I hope you
decide to come in and give us a try sometime. I'd like to meet you and
discuss other amenities we offer.  

Aces,
Will

*** VP Poker/Simulcast Tropicana, Atlantic City, NJ ***
*** The opinions and statements made herein are     ***
*** personal and do not necessarily reflect the     ***
*** position of my employer.                        ***

[previous posters have referred to tropicana's no-smoking room]

i've said here on several occasions that, as far as i am concerned,  there
is no better place in the world to play poker than the tropicana's
no-smoking room!!
they've got nine tables in a completely separate room, with
floor-to-ceiling walls-and-windows.
you will always find (one or more tables of) a 1-3 stud game, and (one or
more tables of) a 1-5 stud game.  the 5/10 stud gets cranked up around
noon, and there will usually be two or three games going from late
afternoon to around midnight.
i've only seen a 10/20 no-smoking game spread once.  but if the players
want to do it, room management will certainly accomodate them!
there is one hold 'em table in the room, and a 3/6 no-smoking game is
spread once in a great while.
oh, yeah!  the room is *quiet*!!!  about two months ago, i was playing in
the room, and for some crazy reason, all of a sudden, i noticed that the
no-smoking room was  pretty noisy.  i stood up and yelled, "quiet!"  sure
enough, after everybody stopped laughing, the noise in the room returned
to its usual library level.   :)
tiger

re: free chili

be as careful with the free chili as you might be with a check raise. it
has it's good days and bad days.

joe

On 8 Apr 1997 03:12:48 GMT, James Morgan <jsmo...@umr.edu> wrote:

Well, it is free ...

Maybe I'm missing something, but is there any casino in AC that rakes
a 1-5 stud game less than 10% to $4?  Maybe it's excessive to you
folks who live in Vegas or CA, but around here that's just what we
pay.  In fact I've played in HOME games that raked $7 in 1-5 ... and
the hell of it was that particular game was so good I kept coming
back.

Until New Jersey passes a law outlawing smoking in all casinos, don't
hold your breath.

Again, it isn't what you want to see, it's what the market will bear.
Poker players were NOT comped until the Trop came along.  Yes, $.50
ain't a big deal, but the high-limit area comps $1 an hour and has
FREE tableside food service.  True the Taj has a more generous policy,
and one which is easy to abuse (and of course I do when I'm dragged in
there) but the room is just unpleasant to play in.  And you can come
into town with 2 or 3 days notice and get a casino rate room for
playing 1-3 stud for 4 hours a day.  That's a helluva deal if you ask
me.

The Trop poker room staff has done everything they can to make a
beautiful professional room withing the strict guidelines imposed on
them by the state.  They've also changed the market for poker players
in AC.  If you're out in CA and you play Omaha, then by all means stay
there, you probably get treated better ... but there is no better room
in AC to play in I guarantee.  The action at the Taj is better at the
mid-limits, and they're still the only game in town for high-limits
... but for service you can't beat the Trop.

And oh yeah I don't work for them yada yada yada my opinions are my
own blah blah blah.  I just like the room.

Tim

Actually it's cheaper than many CA stud games, which are $4 no matter
what the action is.  CA stud is usually played split limit, I'm sure
partly because CA cannot % rake the pots.  Small games like 3-6 or 2-4
may get raked less than $4/hand.
--
"Stephen H. Landrum" <sland...@pacbell.net>

I don't understand how a maximum rake of $4 can be profitable to the
casino.  Is poker a "loss leader" for them?  They could fit at least 10
$1 slot machines it the space taken up by one poker table.

Kimo

Well a poker room does make money, but not as much as the same space
filled with slot machines ... there are advantages to having a poker
room though ... poker players bring people with them to the casino who
play other games, they often play table games themselves, and
high-limit players often play high-limit table games.  Besides, it's
not as though a poker room is going to lose the casino money... the
Taj room probably averages 960 table-hours a day, raking at least $100
/ hour on average.  That's $96k revenue every day ... yeah there are
significant expenses, but that still isn't chump change.

This is just something I heard, but heck it sounds true: In AC, the
CCC may stipulate that no more than a given percentage of a casino's
gaming space may be taken up by slot machines.  Having a poker room
increases the casino's gaming space and thus allows them to also have
more slot machines.  Just something I heard.

Tim

That's what a certain dealer at the Flamingo has been saying for years,
and that they do it just as a service to the gamblers.

A couple points spring to mind, tho.  Is the rake $4 on a $20/$40
table?  The low limit player can be expected to go to higher limits
eventually, and the casino could expect fewer high limit players if it
didn't give people an arena to get good in without going broke.

Also, the poker player will often bring others with him, who hit the
slots.

And, they generally have to stay somewhere, so that is a room rental for
the hotel.

Just speculation on my part, tho.

                                                Dave Head

Burtikus <burti...@imaguru.com> wrote in article
<334c2b0e.283939...@news.erols.com>...

And it's risk free.  Unlike baccarat, where big casino losses make the Wall
Street Journal and the annual reports, poker rooms (almost) can't lose big.

--
------
Eric J. Holtman                   | Managing programmers is like herding cats.
                                  |      
                                  | There's no government like no government

Diminishing marginal utility.

The first through tenth $1 slot machines in a casino would undoubtedly
drag in more money than the first poker table, but the
three-thousand-and-fifty-first through three-thousand-and-sixtieth
probably wouldn't.

--JMike

The last time I played in Los Angeles, 1 1/2 years ago,  the 3-6
stud game charged a 50 cent ante,  $2 were dropped to the house,
the remainder stayed in the pot.   My more recent play has been
in the midwest,  where they rake 10% up to $3,  and sometimes
drop the max to $1 when the game is short-handed.  I can understand
the rake being a little higher on the east coast as the cost
of doing business must be higher,  real estate,  salaries, taxes,
etc.

How about other east coast venues such as Conn.?