Exposing cards before call
Adam Ehrenworth
from school. I play in tournaments down in AC from time to time to so we
try to mimic the no limit tourneys like Taj or Borgata hold. Anyway a
situationed happpened where I was in a hand on the button with A 6 off
suit. I raise preflop and i get one caller.
The flop is KQJ all different suits giving me a 10 to straight but not
much else. I bet 1000 chips (pretty big bet for the chip count). The other
better calls. Next card is 10 of different suit.
I bet 2000 and the better calls. Last card is 2. No help to either.
With the A high straight I go all in..... this is where it gets
interesting.
The other better thinks for about two mintues.... and then suddenly
without saying anything turns over his cards, NO CALL MENTIONED.
Not thinking (cause it was odd to see before making a call or fold
statment) I turn my cards over.
The better then proceeds to say that he didn't decided whether he was
going to call or not and he was just turning his cards over to get a
reaction out of me.
He physically flipped the cards up in front of him without saying anything.
Is this a muck? Should that be an automatic fold? It doesn't matter cause
it saved him his chips but if i was bluffing it would have been a
interesting scenario.
Just curious cause it was the oddest thing i have ever seen.
Thanks,
Adam
_________________________________________________________________
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Matthew
specific advice is given in Super System, for cash NL games. However, I
know it is for sure against the rules in any tournament I've played in, and
the issue of exposing or speaking of cards during tournament play has been
discussed her in RGP a bunch of times as well. It seems it is a fairly
universal rule for tournament play. Different story for cash games, I
believe. However, if you're in a 'friendly' game where the rules for such
situations aren't fully disclosed, and you probably don't have a pro dealer
or houseman to refer to, I'd say his hand is live until he folds or calls.
I can't figure out why you turned over your cards, though. There's no
upside for you to do this. If his hand's live, you cut off a call. If it's
dead, it's none of his business what yours was.
As you've described your hand, you had the nuts, so there's no REAL risk to
you whatever happens next, but you should get a full set of rules codified
before your next tournament.
Matthew
"Adam Ehrenworth" <anon...@ehrenworth.com> wrote in message
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Jim C
If he does that, he's done. Most places would call your hand dead and
might ask ya to leave.
--
Jim C
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Adam Ehrenworth
call so thats why I flipped. Obviously it was a mistake, but my question
specifically is at that point in a regular tourney would it be a fold on
his part? or would I be liable for exposing my cards as well?
Thanks for the info
D. Sullivan
>
> With the A high straight I go all in..... this is where it gets
> interesting.
>
> The other better thinks for about two mintues.... and then suddenly
> without saying anything turns over his cards, NO CALL MENTIONED.
>
> Not thinking (cause it was odd to see before making a call or fold
> statment) I turn my cards over.
>
> The better then proceeds to say that he didn't decided whether he was
> going to call or not and he was just turning his cards over to get a
> reaction out of me.
>
> He physically flipped the cards up in front of him without saying anything.
>
> Is this a muck? Should that be an automatic fold? It doesn't matter cause
> it saved him his chips but if i was bluffing it would have been a
> interesting scenario.
>
> Just curious cause it was the oddest thing i have ever seen.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
Standard practice in no-limit cash games to elicit information from
your reaction to seeing his hand.
Totally illegal in tournaments. his hand should have been declared
dead when he turned it over.
Dennis
mpemba
in.
Only when it happen at the table I was playing the player in your
situation WAS bluffing. The player who flipped over his cards said that he
found out
in a casino that when you are put all-in heads up you can show your cards
without calling, and said almsot the exact thing verbaitum as your guy
said "I can show my cards to try and get a reaction."
The next time I was in a casino I asked about it and the dealer said he
would regard that as a call. The floor manager said that if the player
were to preface the flipping by saying "I'm still thinking." that he might
be able to do it, but if the other player had iterrepeted it as a call and
flipped his cards over then that would make it a call. It is not somthing
I will ever try when real money is involved.
Anybody else have experience with this?
Jan Fisher
playable, but the player very likely would get a time penalty starting the next
hand. At the very least, a warning, but likely a time out.
Jan Fisher
Just pack - We'll do the rest!
Card Player Cruises
http://www.cardplayercruises.com/
DonnMuratore
especially if he had the intention of getting you to turn over your cards.
But he probably assumed you knew what he was doing, which is trying to
elicit a reaction from you. Still, I think in that situation where there
are no set-up house rules, the two of you should make some sort of
compromise - and then establish a rule as to whether or not the show
technique is allowed during the tournament, so there will be no more
confusion.
the Don
Mike A
to try to get a reaction.
Everything I've read said exposed cards like this are live until
mucked.
If he didn't say anything or make any "all in" motions, I think he
hadn't yet made a decision.
Mike
"Adam Ehrenworth" <anon...@ehrenworth.com> wrote in message news:<dxwgc.2484895$iA2.2...@news.easynews.com>...
Adam Ehrenworth
people realize that Super Systems was written like 100 years ago? Things
might have progressed since then.
Adam
nutN2Lewz
news:dxwgc.2484895$iA2.2...@news.easynews.com...
A penalty should have been assessed. From Robert's Rules of Poker
Section 15 - Tournaments ...
------------
21. Showing cards from a live hand during the action injures the rights
of other players still competing in an event, who wish to see
contestants eliminated. A player may not show any cards during a deal
(unless the event has only two remaining players). If a player
deliberately shows a card, the player may be penalized (but his hand
will not be ruled dead). Verbally stating one's hand during the play may
be penalized.
------------
lvdlrs
> In most tournaments, the ones that use the TDA, the hand would be live and
> playable, but the player very likely would get a time penalty starting the next
> hand. At the very least, a warning, but likely a time out.
I remember very distinctly David Lamb talking about this type of
situation before that start of our World Poker Open this year.
If a players exposes his cards when it is his turn to act, it is
considered an act of surrender. Hand dead.
Gary (...) Philips
Irish Mike
considered an act of surrender. Hand dead."
I agree with this rule for a tournament. However, in a ring game I believe
the cards are live, whether turned up or not, until they are put in the
muck.
Irish Mike
"lvdlrs" <lvd...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FgGgc.33753$B%4.2...@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
lvdlrs
> "If a players exposes his cards when it is his turn to act, it is
> considered an act of surrender. Hand dead."
>
> I agree with this rule for a tournament. However, in a ring game I believe
> the cards are live, whether turned up or not, until they are put in the
> muck.
Of course, in the quotation above I was referring to tournament
situations only. Live games are a different animal.
Gary (...) Philips
Jan Fisher
I will ask Dave about this. I certainly didn't know that...
Thanks,