what is reverse implied odds? Also: playing a (low) set vs gut shot & flush draw

[helloworld400]

Can someone explain exactly what is reversed implied odds? From the
context below it seems to be the implied odds one is giving the opponent
after one has made a big hand (e.g. the set) but can be beat by a bigger
hand on later streets.

On Nov 15 2004 4:35 AM, Graham Ribchester wrote:

> This is a big flaw in your arguement. A lot of people used implied odds
> in
> this way incorrectly. You are forgetting about reverse implied odds too.
> Say
> the flop comes J42, are you saying you will fold? How can you be certain
>
> nobody has A3s, 55 or 36? Do not assume hitting a set means you win,
> neither
> should you assume that you will get paid off.

Also, your scenario has just happened to me -- fortunately I didn't lose
too much money:

On the $25 max-buyin NL at Party:

No raise pre-flop, a few limpers.

I held 44's in the hole from MP, flopped a set on a board of
346 two spades
EP raises $6 into a $3 pot. I suspect a straight draw and possible flush
draw. I raise to $15 to either get him to lay down or make it expensive.
He calls.
The turn is a 5 (no spade) so the board is:
3465 (two spades)
EP bets only $5 into $24 pot -- suspicious, I call $5
A spade on the river
3465x (three spades)
EP checks, I don't fall for trap, I check behind
he shows Q7 spades for the made straight on the turn and Q high flush (may
be he checked the river afraid of higher flush).

As an aside: could someone analyze my play?

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[Real Big Fish]

Basically, it's which hands you're likely to go to far with/call, but with
improper odds. Reverse implied odds is when someone makes a straight but
you can't get away from pocket aces, etc.

[bm]

Reverse implied odds is what happens when you're ahead, but other players
may well outdraw you. For example, you're in the BB with 97 and see a
"free" flop with three other callers of 962. For the sake of discussion,
let's assume you're ahead, but it's possible that at least two of the
callers are going to call you down with two overcards in their hand. So
right now, you're a favorite, but against two other hands (say AJ and KT),
you're about a 3:2 favorite, which means your hand is very vulnerable.

I'm not sure how to express it mathematically, but I think it's when
you're betting out (hoping they'll fold), and they're calling you down.
If you're getting negative implied odds, it might mean that your
opponent(s) has a very powerful draw, and when he's calling you down (or
raising), he's doing the mathematically correct thing, while positive
implied odds suggests that he's chasing a hand and getting improper odds.

I'm not 100% certain about this explanation, but I think that's the gist
of it.

[Graham Ribchester]

Reverse implied odds to me, is when you think you have outdrawn someone on
the flop and are ahead, but you are infact still behind.

Example, guy raises preflop you call with 22. Flop comes 247, he has 77. He
has a hand that he shouldn't have raised preflop, so you cannot put him on
either 44 or 77, you both go all-in on the flop , you lose. Implied odds
makes one big assumption, it assumes that you will not commit any more chips
into the pot if you are still behind once the flop comes. You have AQh, flop
comes 3h 6d 9h, guy makes a bet, you call, because you both have big stacks,
turn is 6h, pairing the board and putting a flush up for you. Guy goes
all-in, good luck making the correct decision each time.

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"bm" <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1100648467$349...@recpoker.com...

[Super Steamer]

On Nov 16 2004 2:47 PM, helloworld400 wrote:

> Can someone explain exactly what is reversed implied odds?

With implied odds you are figuring how many additional bets you figure to
receive from your opponent if you make your hand.

With reverse implied odds, generally if you have a strong hand or a made
hand, but with little chance to improve, or your opponent may have a
stronger hand or better chances to improve, you would figure in how many
bets you will have to put in the pot to see the hand through. If they
miss their draw, or decide to abandon their hand, they may stop betting or
calling your bets, and if they make it, or already have it, you may have
to pay more money to see the showdown.

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