We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Travel A
Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
Bob T.
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
That settles it then. There is no more definitive way to establish
the nature of reality than an opinion poll.
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
Regardless of whether or not there is a God, there is no question that
our physical bodies are the product of evolution, and that ten million
years ago our ancestors were also the ancestors of chimpanzees,
bonobos and gorillas.
- Bob T.
>
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/jul...
Jerry Sturdivant
"Travel A"
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
Endowed of what? And what if 89% agree that probably rained yesterday?
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
Other than scientific fact.
Jerry (evoluting) 'n Vegas
Mrs Irish Mike
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
Some more than others
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
Date: Fri, Jul 3, 2009, 11:16am
From: Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com>
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/jul...
.......................................................................................
That does settle it. 89% believe in a creator. Only the most pathetic of
religion bigots could read a poll like that and "miss" that important
point.
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: Jerry Sturdivant <jer...@cox.net>
I wrote:
89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
JS wrote:
"Endowed of what? And what if 89% agree that probably rained yesterday?"
I wrote:
That's another one of your lame: "there's no fact that I can't deny,
simply through denial." drivel.
The point is, 89% accept the concept of a creator, and the left-wing
religion bashing isn't exactly effective, lol. That's a fact.
I wrote:
Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
JS wrote:
"Other than scientific fact."
I wrote:
What scientific fact? It's not a scientific fact that there is no God.
You have less than zero idea whether there is a God or not. It even
makes more sense that God created evolution, rather than it just
happened.
Bob T.
> Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
> Group: rec.gambling.poker
> Date: Fri, Jul 3, 2009, 11:16am
> From: Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com>
>
>
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
> That settles it then. There is no more definitive way to establish the
> nature of reality than an opinion poll.
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
>
> Regardless of whether or not there is a God, there is no question that
> our physical bodies are the product of evolution, and that ten million
> years ago our ancestors were also the ancestors of chimpanzees, bonobos
> and gorillas.
> - Bob T.
>
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/jul...
>
> That does settle it. 89% believe in a creator. Only the most pathetic of
> religion bigots could read a poll like that and "miss" that important point.
What important point? Everybody knows that most people in the US
believe in God/Allah/Jehovah. So what? Do you really think that
God's actual existence depends on whether people believe in Him or
not? If public opinion changed and more people became atheists, would
God cease to exist?
- Bob T.
bo dark
-If public opinion changed and more people became atheists, would
God cease to exist?
Good point Bob, and this same logic applies to other subject matter.
It's amazing when people will change because they don't to be seen as
differing with the majority.
bo dark
Don't want to be.
Travel A
BobTard wrote:
What important point? Everybody knows that most people in the US believe
in God...".
I wrote:
That's the important point. I wanted to see how much you liked it. I
guess you don't.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Travel A"
>>> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>> "Endowed of what? And what if 89% agree
>> that [it] probably rained yesterday?"
> That's another one of your lame: "there's no fact
> that I can't deny, simply through denial." drivel.
Obviously subtlety was wasted on you. But then, you're apparently of the
mind that majority rules, even when it comes to facts. The very reason you
couldn't answer my question but made up a position for me instead. Why
should science study anything at all when we could simply vote what the true
facts would be?
> The point is, 89% accept the concept of a
> creator, and the left-wing religion bashing
> isn't exactly effective, lol. That's a fact.
Yea, like that.
> It's not a scientific fact that there is no God.
Nor that there is. And voting does not change that.
> You have less than zero idea whether there is a God or not.
Actually I do. Note you said, "idea."
> It even makes more sense that God created evolution.
There you go, assuming there's a god.
Jerry (another Atheist) 'n Vegas
johnny_t
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
>
Wow, just how limited is your historical understanding of the document?
Most of the founding fathers were "diests" Here is a website to get you
caught up with that means..
http://www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm
Whether Thomas Jefferson was is an interesting debate...
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm
Charles Darwin wasn't even born until 1809, so it would be really really
odd for a document of the age of the Decleration of Independence to have
an evolutionary bent, or to be suitable evidence I am not sure of what.
Or even more entertaining a question, WTF *IS* your proposition here?
But most importantly, at the time, from the Magna Carta on forward, was
a basic political thought. Are their concepts of "rights". Things that
because we are human beings, that we get, just for being human beings.
This is a very radical thought. Up to this point, no, your privileges
were granted to you by your sovereign, who had been anointed by God with
this power.
This did not sit well with the colonists, who really didn't want a king
thank you very much, which left them with a huge void. So they came up
with the concept of "rights" and the question remained, from WHOM were
rights bestowed. They really didn't like the set of ethical choices. A
god endowed human, a human, or just cuz. There was a real belief
that humans are "special". And that this specialness gave them dominion
over themselves and lesser beings. And that this specialness was
expressed by our creator by giving us certain inalienable rights,
amongst these rights, the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness.
Now, unlike the right and left wing whack jobs of today, that seem
intent on increasing governmental control over each of us, the founding
fathers felt, correctly, that enumerating our rights would lead others
to believe that our only rights were those as enumerated. When instead,
just the opposite was intended. That these are merely examples, and that
people should be in general free of the shackles of government, and that
indeed government should solely work for the governed and not vice verse.
Wicked, and very perverse thinking for the time. Unfortunately the
brilliance often gets twisted by folks like you, who some how think this
is a referendum on evolution.
The kids today have a great word for this...
Fail.
da pickle
Do you really think that God's actual existence depends on whether people
believe in Him or not? If public opinion changed and more people became
atheists, would God cease to exist?
==================
It *is* an interesting theory. [Pardon the use of a word like *is*.]
Isn't there some support for the "perception is reality" world view?
I think you are on to something about relative reality.
Bob T.
No, no - I think it's great that the USA has almost as many religious
fundamentalists as Iran does.
- Bob T.
Bob T.
Have you read "American Gods" by Neil Gaimon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gods
"The central concept is that gods and mythological creatures exist
because people believe in them. Immigrants to the United States
brought dwarves, elves, leprechauns, and other spirits and gods with
them, but their power is diminished as people's beliefs wane. New gods
have arisen, reflecting America's obsessions with media, celebrity,
technology, and illegal drugs, among others."
A great read, I highly recommend it.
- Bob T.
Will in New Haven
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
>
If everyone votes that there is no gravity will you jump off a cliff?
If democracy worked that way we'd all just vote ourselves each other's
wealth.
Oh.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
> Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
> Group: rec.gambling.poker
> Date: Fri, Jul 3, 2009, 12:58pm
>
> I wrote:
>
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
> JS wrote:
>
> "Endowed of what? And what if 89% agree that probably rained yesterday?"
>
> I wrote:
>
> That's another one of your lame: "there's no fact that I can't deny,
> simply through denial." drivel.
>
> The point is, 89% accept the concept of a creator, and the left-wing
> religion bashing isn't exactly effective, lol. That's a fact.
>
> I wrote:
>
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
>
> JS wrote:
>
> "Other than scientific fact."
>
> I wrote:
>
> What scientific fact? It's not a scientific fact that there is no God.
> You have less than zero idea whether there is a God or not. It even
> makes more sense that God created evolution, rather than it just
> happened.
I can't argue with that. It's an elegant, although convoluted tool. A
classy creator-God might use it and leave a ton of evidence that this
is how living things developed. My argument is with the people who say
that God put all this evidence out there to fool people.
Will in New Haven
That's all been done. Look up "Tinkerbell."
dannyc12
Did the god Jupiter cease to exist?
Jerry Sturdivant
"Bob T."
> Have you read "American Gods" by Neil Gaimon?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gods
>
> "The central concept is that gods and mythological creatures
> exist because people believe in them. Immigrants to the
> United States brought dwarves, elves, leprechauns, and other
> spirits and gods with them, but their power is diminished
> as people's beliefs wane.
Save me a read. In the list of things the religious believe in (ghosts [holy
or otherwise], souls, charms, angels, devils, goblins, spirits [holy or
otherwise], heavens, hells, demons and gods) where did fairies fit in?
The word 'gay' has lost its original meaning; I'm just wondering if the
religious no longer believes in fairies because that word's meaning has been
changed.
Jerry (no fairy) in Vegas
da pickle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gods
========================
Sounds interesting. I may give it a try.
Isn't there a theory that ultimately, perception IS reality? Without
"observation" there is no "thing?"
Something like that. Before observation, there is only probability, no
reality as we usually use the word.
Do things exist "by definition?"
Travel A
"Good point Bob, and this same logic applies to other subject matter.
It's amazing when people will change because they don't to be seen as
differing with the majority."
I wrote:
It wasn't a good point, it was a dumb comment. He just extended the
subject ouside of the topic matter and then argued in favor of himself.
It was classic strawman drivel.
Plus, for you to state that people believe in a creator "because they
don't want to be SEEN as differing with the majority" is absured.
Believing in a creator is a function of thought, people would likely be
telling the truth.
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: Jerry Sturdivant <jer...@cox.net>
I wrote:
89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
js wrote:
"Endowed of what? And what if 89% agree
that [it] probably rained yesterday?"
I wrote:
That's another one of your lame: "there's no fact that I can't deny,
simply through denial." drivel.
JS wrote:
"Obviously subtlety was wasted on you. But then, you're apparently of
the mind that majority rules, even when it comes to facts. The very
reason you couldn't answer my question but made up a position for me
instead. Why should science study anything at all when we could simply
vote what the true facts would be?"
I wrote:
No, you don't understand. You don't have a question. You seem to have
this idea that if you post it, it has validity. It doesn't. It doesn't
even make sense. This is something you do all the time and it's why you
often get no reply. It definitely isn't because others "can't answer
your question", lol.
Last reply with this post, I really have no interest in addressing this
drivel you pull on just about every thread with everyone. You're not
clever, it's just plain idiocy. You're considered spam.
89% believe that there's a creator. That's all there is to it. Read it
'n weep.
I wrote:
"It's not a scientific fact that there is no God.
JS wrote:
"Nor that there is. And voting does not change that."
I wrote:
Who said that there was scientific eveidence that there was a God?
That's what I'm talking about. You post these idiotic, meaningless
"quips". Any basic retard can parse and add something stupid.
Travel A
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: johnny_t <nobo...@home.com>
Travel A wrote:
89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
Johnny t wrote:
"Wow, just how limited is your historical understanding of the document?
Most of the founding fathers were "diests" Here is a website to get you
caught up with that means."
I wrote:
Your brain is limited. The polls show 89% believe in a creator. End of
story. You can't change that. It must kill you to be reminded that
christianity is alive and well in America. :-)
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: Bob T. <b...@synapse-cs.com>
On Jul 3, 2:48�pm, nine...@webtv.net (Travel A) wrote:
BobTard wrote:
What important point? Everybody knows that most people in the US believe
in God...".
I wrote:
That's the important point. I wanted to see how much you liked it. I
guess you don't.
BobTard wrote:
No, no - I think it's great that the USA has almost as many religious
fundamentalists as Iran does.
- Bob T.
.....................................................................................
I wrote:
BobTard's calling christians terrorists again.
We'll supose that's like playing "the "T" card" in his little world of
religion bigots.
No, sorry BobTard, being against giving out a marriage license to
ass-fuck Pickle isn't terrorism.
Pepe Papon
<jcpickels@(nospam)hotmail.com> wrote:
>Isn't there a theory that ultimately, perception IS reality? Without
>"observation" there is no "thing?"
>
>Something like that. Before observation, there is only probability, no
>reality as we usually use the word.
>
>Do things exist "by definition?"
The theory appears to be fatally flawed. For example, did molecules
exist before microscopes were invented? I suppose you could argue
that there's no proof, only probability, but I think we all know that
such an argument is bogus.
--
~ Seth Jackson
MySpace URL - http://www.myspace.com/sethjacksonsong
Songwriting and Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
Pepe Papon
>89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
>
>Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
And some are more well-endowed than others. So what?
johnny_t
Ok, slowly now. Go down the list and see if you can find an A then b
then c then d kind of political argument afet the I wrote.
If you can, seek help. If you can't well, seek help.
Seriously, what does the Declaration of Independence have to do with
evolution? Again, the theory hadn't been broached for 100 years?
What does the Declaration of Independence have to do with Christianity?
as the document has no connection, except the very loose connection of
"creator". Which could also make this a jewish, muslim, hindu,
buddhist, satanist, druid document, since the writer wasn't likely
Christian, and in historical reference, it was not to a Christian, nor
old testament god. But rather a "creator:.
That 89% of the people agree in creator, has nothing to do with
evolution. And only accidentally have to do with Christianity. Which
is only known, because we know the context of the question. If you
didn't tell us that it was American, and that we already KNEW the
answer, there would be know way to tell that they were Christian, and we
STILL don't know their position on evolution.
But I do know, that there has been a long problem with the church in the
defense of doctrine in the face of science. And historically science
has what appears to be a 100% record over time. And even the Pope has
been known to have an open mind to evolution, and actually believes in
Dinosaurs and the long time-line.
But you know, Scientologists also believe in the "creator".
My brain is not limited. By all example, yours is. You cannot
understand an argument, you cannot create one, and you are bound by some
bizarre doctrine for doctrines sake. Too bad.
Bob T.
Are you thinking of Bishop Berkeley?
"George Berkeley (pronounced /ˈbɑrkli/) (12 March 1685 – 14 January
1753), also known as Bishop Berkeley, was an Irish philosopher whose
primary achievement was the advancement of a theory he called
"immaterialism" (later referred to as "subjective idealism" by
others). This theory contends that individuals can only directly know
sensations and ideas of objects, not abstractions such as "matter."
The theory also contends that ideas are dependent upon being perceived
by minds for their very existence, a belief that became immortalized
in the dictum, "Esse est percipi" ("To be is to be perceived"). His
most widely-read works are A Treatise Concerning the Principles of
Human Knowledge (1710) and Three Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous
(1713), in which the characters Philonous and Hylas represent Berkeley
himself and his contemporary John Locke. In 1734, he published The
Analyst, a critique of the foundations of infinitesimal calculus,
which was influential in the development of mathematics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Berkeley
I am not well-read in philospophy.
- Bob T.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Travel A"
> Last reply with this post, I really have no interest in
> addressing this drivel you pull on just about every
> thread with everyone.
Posting a question that cannot be answered without showing you wrong is used
quite often. I just did it to you and your response was typical:
"I really have no interest in address.."
"I won't answer because you always do this.."
"Your question made no sense.."
"You're not clever.."
"It's just plain idiocy.."
"Any basic retard can parse and add something stupid.."
"You're considered spam..."
The fact you refused to answer the question was all I needed.
Jerry (thanks) 'n Vegas
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com>
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/jul...
Oh.
..........................................................................................
I wrote:
What are you talking about? What does it have to do with gravity? No one
is askng you to believe in a creator. The poll speakes for itself: 89%
do.
If you can't stand the results of a poll, who cares?
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: johnny_t <nobo...@home.com>
Travel A wrote:
Travel A wrote:
.......................................................................................
I wrote:
Lol, like I would actually read one of your incredibly incomprehensible,
ranting babbles.
I think if you put that through "Google translator", we'll find that you
just ordered dinner in chinese, at a french reataurant.
johnny_t
> I wrote:
> Lol, like I would actually read one of your incredibly incomprehensible,
> ranting babbles.
Really? Neener! Neener! I've got my fingers in my ears! I can't hear you!
This is your argument?
Wow.
Hers, simple. Even for you...
You are wrong.
If you want to know why, pull you fucking fingers out of your ears.
da pickle
"George Berkeley (pronounced /'b?rkli/) (12 March 1685 - 14 January
1753), also known as Bishop Berkeley, was an Irish philosopher whose
primary achievement was the advancement of a theory he called
"immaterialism" (later referred to as "subjective idealism" by
others). This theory contends that individuals can only directly know
sensations and ideas of objects, not abstractions such as "matter."
The theory also contends that ideas are dependent upon being perceived
by minds for their very existence, a belief that became immortalized
in the dictum, "Esse est percipi" ("To be is to be perceived"). His
most widely-read works are A Treatise Concerning the Principles of
Human Knowledge (1710) and Three Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous
(1713), in which the characters Philonous and Hylas represent Berkeley
himself and his contemporary John Locke. In 1734, he published The
Analyst, a critique of the foundations of infinitesimal calculus,
which was influential in the development of mathematics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Berkeley
I am not well-read in philospophy.
======================
Me either and I had forgotten about Berkeley. Woof!
I was thinking physics and I guess the influence of philosophy.
And really "pop" physics ... like so many of the popular books old and new.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance; The Tao of Physics; Physics for
Poets; Physics as Metaphor; The Dancing Wu Li Masters ... stuff like that.
Owen Barfield has written about "figuration" ... we convert "sensations" (as
we experience them) into the real "things" we "believe" "exist." Actually,
however, we only have our personal sensations (observations) to work with
and we have training that "creates" the things we believe actually exist.
Roger Jones sets up the "cardinal metaphors" of physical reality ... space,
time, matter and number ... and discusses how our perception is the reality
that we create for ourselves. It is a strike against "hard" concepts of
scientific claims of "objectivity." Very interesting stuff ... makes me a
lot less "positive" about certain things that I was pretty positive about
earlier in my life.
Travel A
Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
Group: rec.gambling.poker
From: johnny_t <nobo...@home.com>
Travel A wrote:
I wrote:
Lol, like I would actually read one of your incredibly incomprehensible,
ranting babbles.
Really? Neener! Neener! I've got my fingers in my ears! I can't hear
you!
This is your argument?
Wow.
If you want to know why, pull you fucking fingers out of your ears.
........................................................................................
I wrote:
Lol, after so many have told you that your rambling posts make zero
sense, it's probably time to take your fingers out of YOUR ears, and
decide you must be an idiot, afterall.
What makes you think that, just because you spewed something, that it's
worthy of argument?
Also, there isn't a single aspect of the "god debte" that hasn't been
beaten to death. If anyone could understand what you post in the first
place, it'd probably be worthless, irrelevant, (definitely to this
thread, which is supposed to be, simply, about a poll) and wrong,
anyway.
mccard
Respondent wrote: No fuck you tard.
Travail wrote: Nuh ha.
Respondent wrote: Uhhhh Haaaaa
Travail wrote: Poopy breath.
Respondent wrote: Shit head.
Travail wrote: Mommy, mommy, Res called me a Shit Head.
Mommy yelled: Travail, bring me the belt and get in that trailer, you are
gonna get it mister.
Will in New Haven
> Re: We Are All Endowed By Our Creator
> Group: rec.gambling.poker
> Date: Fri, Jul 3, 2009, 8:20pm
>
> On Jul 3, 1:54 pm, nine...@webtv.net (Travel A) wrote:
>
> 89% agree that we are all endowed by our creator.
> Nothing about being endowed by evolution.
>
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/holidays/jul...
>
> If everyone votes that there is no gravity will you jump off a cliff?
> If democracy worked that way we'd all just vote ourselves each other's
> wealth.
>
> Oh.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
> ..........................................................................................
>
> I wrote:
>
> What are you talking about? What does it have to do with gravity? No one
> is askng you to believe in a creator. The poll speakes for itself: 89%
> do.
>
> If you can't stand the results of a poll, who cares?
It's not that I can't stand the results of a poll. It is that I don't
much _care_ about the results of a poll. We don't get to vote on the
nature of the universe. Or, if we do, it doesn't mean anything. Just
as gravity is a fact, evolution is a fact. The existence of a creator-
God is not provable, although I tend to think there is one, and it
doesn't matter what people think about it.