difference bween tourney and cash nl games
JC
any thought to why?
ta
jc
FellKnight
Cash games are played with much deeper stacks. TPTK is a poor hand to be
putting all your money in the pot with in a cash game (usually). Implied
odds and position become much more of a factor. Blind-stealing is not as
important, but pot-stealing is. Many, many differences.
Fell
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MysteriAce
NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL tournaments.
If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
example, you will probably get killed.
~ MysteriAce
"The idea is to keep the green alien landing craft from taking your humans
from the ground and changing them into mutants. A mutant is very
dangerous to you because he flies faster than you do and shoots at you."
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XaQ Morphy
I would ask FaceDownAcesUp for advice. I hear he's crushing the cash
games.
Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com
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GrimJack808
that you are too aggressive for your own good.
As one of the pros says, "You can never be too tight for a ring game"
or something to that effect. I think it was Howard L.
The reason for this is that if you make a bad call at a tourney...say
calling a big raise with 2nd pair when you think the big stack is
bluffing, and you are wrong, then you are out for good. You have
several hours, if not days, worth of effort down the drain. But if you
make the same bad call at a ring game, you just reach into your pocket
and say "chips." So your aggressiveness is not going to pay off to the
same extent in a ring game as it does in a tourney because people will
make calls in a ring game they won't make in a tourney.
Without much other insight into your play, I would bank on this being
your problem.
Good Luck!!
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Jonathan
all-in with 77 and other shit like that.
things like that are required in a tourny, but not a cash game. i cant count how
many stack i lost over-playing middle pairs in cash games. i eventually plugged
it.
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Kinnipak
stay off the booze for cash games too. you won't get hammered then.....
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ChrisBrown
cuz you're a decent tourney player but a shitty cash player.
------
ChrisBrown
> On Oct 12 2005 9:51 AM, JC wrote:
>
> > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > any thought to why?
> > ta
> > jc
>
> NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL tournaments.
> If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
> example, you will probably get killed.
or make a killing.
---
ChrisBrown
> If you do OK in tourneys, but not so good in cash NL games it is a sign
> that you are too aggressive for your own good.
>
> As one of the pros says, "You can never be too tight for a ring game"
> or something to that effect. I think it was Howard L.
how does that quote support your 'too aggressive' argument? before you
spend time typing up a reply, here's a hint: it doesn't.
> The reason for this is that if you make a bad call at a tourney...say
> calling a big raise with 2nd pair when you think the big stack is
> bluffing, and you are wrong, then you are out for good. You have
> several hours, if not days, worth of effort down the drain. But if you
> make the same bad call at a ring game, you just reach into your pocket
> and say "chips." So your aggressiveness is not going to pay off to the
> same extent in a ring game as it does in a tourney because people will
> make calls in a ring game they won't make in a tourney.
how is calling to being aggressive? You really should stop using the word
if you don't know what you're talking about.
> Without much other insight
substitute 'any' for 'much other'
------
Jeff burns
On Oct 12 2005 8:51 AM, JC wrote:
Some things you need to remember in cash games is that blind stealing has little
value. Since the stacks are so big alot of people will let you take the 2 bucks
in a 1-1 blind game. There blind bet has less value and so stealing it shouldn't
be your main concern. I see more bluffing in cash games then tournys but usually
when a showdown happens your gonna need more then TPTK to win. Overall bluffing
has more value in cashgames then tournys.
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MysteriAce
> On Oct 12 2005 11:07 AM, MysteriAce wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12 2005 9:51 AM, JC wrote:
> >
> > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > any thought to why?
> > > ta
> > > jc
> >
> > NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL tournaments.
> > If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
> > example, you will probably get killed.
>
> or make a killing.
Maybe. But most of the time the low-limit so-called "tournament experts"
who happen into my NL cash games end up way over-valuing hands and making
poorly-timed bluffs, and leave empty-handed.
~ MysteriAce
"The idea is to keep the green alien landing craft from taking your humans
from the ground and changing them into mutants. A mutant is very
dangerous to you because he flies faster than you do and shoots at you."
_____________________________________________________________________
tyslothrop
On Oct 12 2005 12:49 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
> On Oct 12 2005 11:40 AM, ChrisBrown wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12 2005 11:07 AM, MysteriAce wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 12 2005 9:51 AM, JC wrote:
> > >
> > > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > > any thought to why?
> > > > ta
> > > > jc
> > >
> > > NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL tournaments.
> > > If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
> > > example, you will probably get killed.
> >
> > or make a killing.
>
> Maybe. But most of the time the low-limit so-called "tournament experts"
> who happen into my NL cash games end up way over-valuing hands and making
> poorly-timed bluffs, and leave empty-handed.
>
> ~ MysteriAce
>
> "The idea is to keep the green alien landing craft from taking your humans
> from the ground and changing them into mutants. A mutant is very
> dangerous to you because he flies faster than you do and shoots at you."
ok todd brunson.
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ChrisBrown
> On Oct 12 2005 11:40 AM, ChrisBrown wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12 2005 11:07 AM, MysteriAce wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 12 2005 9:51 AM, JC wrote:
> > >
> > > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > > any thought to why?
> > > > ta
> > > > jc
> > >
> > > NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL tournaments.
> > > If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
> > > example, you will probably get killed.
> >
> > or make a killing.
>
> Maybe. But most of the time the low-limit so-called "tournament experts"
> who happen into my NL cash games end up way over-valuing hands and making
> poorly-timed bluffs, and leave empty-handed.
yes. my point was that when people apply that type of strategy they'll
either run extremely well or go broke. there's generally no middle ground.
CaliGirl
ring games. It can get really boring so be sure to have something to
occupy your time. You will probably be noticed as a tight player and
get no action, usually. Although, I play on AcrossTheFelt and it seems
that they don't pay attention that much to your style of play, they
only care about their own two cards. Its quite funny, I'll play two
hands in two hours then get AA, go heavy, and get paid off.
tyslothrop
On Oct 12 2005 12:40 PM, ChrisBrown wrote:
> On Oct 12 2005 10:51 AM, JC wrote:
>
> > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > any thought to why?
> > ta
> > jc
>
> cuz you're a decent tourney player but a shitty cash player.
lil cranky today eh?
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MysteriAce
> On Oct 12 2005 12:49 PM, MysteriAce wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12 2005 11:40 AM, ChrisBrown wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 12 2005 11:07 AM, MysteriAce wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 12 2005 9:51 AM, JC wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > > > any thought to why?
> > > > > ta
> > > > > jc
> > > >
> > > > NL cash games require a different overall strategy than NL
tournaments.
> > > > If you try to apply late-stage tournament strategy to a cash game, for
> > > > example, you will probably get killed.
> > >
> > > or make a killing.
> >
> > Maybe. But most of the time the low-limit so-called "tournament experts"
> > who happen into my NL cash games end up way over-valuing hands and making
> > poorly-timed bluffs, and leave empty-handed.
> >
> > ~ MysteriAce
> >
> > "The idea is to keep the green alien landing craft from taking your humans
> > from the ground and changing them into mutants. A mutant is very
> > dangerous to you because he flies faster than you do and shoots at you."
>
>
> ok todd brunson.
Ewwww. Burn.
Anyway, what I meant by "low-limit so-called tournament experts" was the
people I encounter who have won a few $5/$10 buy in tournaments and think
that makes them hot shit, and tell the whole table how awesome they are
and how much everyone else just sucks, try to act as table captain, all
the while losing their money to the good cash game players that they
berate and call fish for busting them with 57s when they overplay AA on a
689 or 57K flop.
~ MysteriAce
"The idea is to keep the green alien landing craft from taking your humans
from the ground and changing them into mutants. A mutant is very
dangerous to you because he flies faster than you do and shoots at you."
----
mo_charles
> > any thought to why?
>
little
> value. Since the stacks are so big alot of people will let you take the 2
bucks
> in a 1-1 blind game. There blind bet has less value and so stealing it
shouldn't
> be your main concern.
so they'll let us steal their blinds, and you're telling us not to?
> I see more bluffing in cash games then tournys but usually
> when a showdown happens your gonna need more then TPTK to win. Overall
bluffing
> has more value in cashgames then tournys.
the only difference between cash games and tourneys are escalating blinds.
a good player still takes good hands to the gunfight, and bluffing, if it
adds value, adds value in both.
mo_charles
______________________________________________________________________
ChrisBrown
> On Oct 12 2005 12:40 PM, ChrisBrown wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12 2005 10:51 AM, JC wrote:
> >
> > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > any thought to why?
> > > ta
> > > jc
> >
> > cuz you're a decent tourney player but a shitty cash player.
>
>
> lil cranky today eh?
yes. i work for an idiot who somehow earned a phd without knowing how to
read. and no one made coffee this morning and i'm on day 5 of the
weightloss thing. that's enough to make anybody cranky.
-------
Jeff burns
On Oct 12 2005 11:08 AM, mo_charles wrote:
> > > seems that i do ok in tourneys and get hammered in cash nl games...
> > > any thought to why?
> >
> > Some things you need to remember in cash games is that blind stealing has
> little
> > value. Since the stacks are so big alot of people will let you take the 2
> bucks
> > in a 1-1 blind game. There blind bet has less value and so stealing it
> shouldn't
> > be your main concern.
>
> so they'll let us steal their blinds, and you're telling us not to?
No I'm not saying not to I'm saying that stealing the blinds doesn't mean as
much in cash games as it does in tournys because the blinds don't go up and the
stacks are bigger. Stealing blinds has alot more value in tournys then in cash
games.
> > I see more bluffing in cash games then tournys but usually
> > when a showdown happens your gonna need more then TPTK to win. Overall
> bluffing
> > has more value in cashgames then tournys.
>
> the only difference between cash games and tourneys are escalating blinds.
> a good player still takes good hands to the gunfight, and bluffing, if it
> adds value, adds value in both.
>
> mo_charles
Bluffing has less value in tournys then in cash games. Since the amount of chips
you win from a bluff is worth less than the amount you stand to lose, bluffing
loses a lot of value. Suppose you bluff 1,500 chips at a 1,500 pot and figure
you have a 50% chance of taking it down. Many people would think it's worth it
to take that risk. However, those 1,500 chips you win are worth less than those
1,500 chips you stand to lose. While winning 1,500 in a cash game has the same
value as the 1,500 you bet to bluff and win it. That was what I was trying to
say when I said bluffing has more value in cash game play. Also since your in a
deep stack situation in cash games people have the ability to wait and make
better hands then they do in tournys. Thats why TPTK is better overall in
tournys than in cash games.
Palooka
> busting them with 57s when they overplay AA on a 689 or 57K flop.
>
Ace,
Some advice please, if you wouldn't mind; sorry if this is a silly or
obvious question...
I am only a penny player, but I have noticed that the $5 max buyin cash NL
tables seem to feature lots of callers and very few raisers preflop. So it
seems to me that optimal strategy is to limp in many times with little hands
like 42s or JTo, just in case something good comes, and after the flop, fold
most of the time. In other words, just lurk quietly, pounce when I've got
'em, and then go back to my low profile game. This rather than trying to
dominate, push people out, boss the table, win lots with AJo on a J82
rainbow flop, or just bully.
Does this make sense? I am just an aspiring beginner looking to build a
bankroll of a few tens of dollars into a few hundreds, once I have gained
sufficient experience.
Thanks,
Palooka
Flushed
NL. You might find it helpful when starting out.
"Palooka" <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
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Palooka
> read the section in Ed Miller's book on the strategy to use for short
stack
> NL. You might find it helpful when starting out.
>
Thanks for that; I will. Can you post the title of the book? I've googled Ed
Miller but didn't find anything useful. I have SSHE, but assume you are
referring to a different one.
Thanks again,
Palooka
Flushed
"Palooka" <not...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
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