AQ in small blind against a raiser and a caller

[David Nicoson]

NLH, 10 players, cash. Deep stacks.

Sit down, fold to a raise on the big blind.
Next hand, UTG raises pot.
A player in middle position calls.
You have AQo in the small blind.

How would you play this and why?

Not knowing the other players, I fold here. I expect UTG to have AK,
AQ, or a pair. The caller most likely has a small or medium pair, but
also perhaps a high suited connector. It seems to me that I'm
dominated by a lot of hands and a coin flip to a lot of hands. And
I'm playing out of position.

I've asked four people about this hand. Three said call and one said
raise. Maybe I'm a wimp?

[drewdrewdrew]

Personally, I would raise.

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[Bryan Kimmes]

Just sat down? I would fold and see what kind of game this is, see a
showdown or 3 and get a feel for what is going on here. Call is better
than Raise, If you raise, get called, and the flop comes down A72, now
what? Bet half the pot into an UTG raiser? Check? I think it would be
better to take a flop or fold here.

Bryan

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[thenutlow]

in a cash game with unknown variables I fold here.

Its one of those real troublesome hands that you need to hit to win, and
if you do hit, it would be very hard to generate a lot of action, assuming
you are winning.

It really is a very oft used phrase, but as always, it depends on what
read you have of the raiser/caller... but with unknown variables.. i would
most times fold

On Feb 18 2005 1:49 AM, drewdrewdrew wrote:

> Personally, I would raise.
>
> On Feb 17 2005 7:43 PM, David Nicoson wrote:
>
> > NLH, 10 players, cash. Deep stacks.
> >
> > Sit down, fold to a raise on the big blind.
> > Next hand, UTG raises pot.
> > A player in middle position calls.
> > You have AQo in the small blind.
> >
> > How would you play this and why?
> >
> > Not knowing the other players, I fold here. I expect UTG to have AK,
> > AQ, or a pair. The caller most likely has a small or medium pair, but
> > also perhaps a high suited connector. It seems to me that I'm
> > dominated by a lot of hands and a coin flip to a lot of hands. And
> > I'm playing out of position.
> >
> > I've asked four people about this hand. Three said call and one said
> > raise. Maybe I'm a wimp?

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[Kincaid]

Raising is out of the question. If you raise and are called, you'll know
instantly that you're behind. If you raise and are re-raised... then
what? If you raise and don't flop a pair... you want to play that hand in
the worst possible position?

I assume this is the second hand in the tourney. If that's the case, and
you are a very good player, you could call here only because your call
closes the action. If you don't flop to a good hand (Nut straight, trips,
top two) you must get away from it.

If your AQ is ahead, it won't be by much. If it's behind... that's a bad
place to be in a three way pot.

If it were me... easy fold. Get your chips in when you don't have to
guess as much.

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[TheRempel]

It would depend on how much the raise was going to cost me, but most of
the time I'm folding in this spot. You can't reraise out of position to
define your hand, and you could be in trouble if the flop comes AT4 and
you have no idea if the other people in the hand would call a pre-flop
raise with AT.

Fold the hand and save your money. You'll get a better chance when a)
you have position and b) you've seen at least a few hands play out so
you can get an idea of what the other players have as raising / calling
standards.

[Jive Dadson]

"David Nicoson" <bigdavexno_meatli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:42154406...@news.ind.sbcglobal.net...

>
> NLH, 10 players, cash. Deep stacks.
>
> Sit down, fold to a raise on the big blind.
> Next hand, UTG raises pot.
> A player in middle position calls.
> You have AQo in the small blind.
>
> How would you play this and why?

Fold. Why? Because an UTG player raised, and a middle position player called,
and I have a trouble hand that's quite possibly dominated by one or both opponents,
and I'm out of position, and I'm not stupid. Only the last point is debatable.

[Scotty]

It depends on the context. What's the buy-in? If it's not much then
chances are the table isn't that tight. You'd be doing all the callers
a favor by folding.

[jarrett40]

How much was the raise?
No way you will get an intelligent answer without this information.

jarrett40

[GTech1]

They were all wrong.   Fold.  AQo is most overrated hand in NL.  You are
behind in this hand, most likely behind both other players.

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[Mike Johnson]

Definitely fold, calling in this case is likely throwing away your money. 

http://www.foldorraise.com/group.php?groupid=3

You can check out some situations with AQ above.  In a similar situation
on the site 90% of the people folded.

[Jive Dadson]

Even if it was the minimum, he still needs to fold that trouble hand.

[Toni Virta]

"Jive Dadson" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:%ScRd.2564832$f47.4...@news.easynews.com...

> Fold. Why? Because an UTG player raised, and a middle position
player called,
> and I have a trouble hand that's quite possibly dominated by one or
both opponents,
> and I'm out of position, and I'm not stupid. Only the last point is
debatable.

Good to see this consensus. I'd be folding AQ here too, but I've been
worried this might be a weak-tight tactic.

TVirta

[David Nicoson]

UTG raises the size of the pot, which is just the blinds and his call.
That's what I meant by "raises pot" in the original post.

[Big Ed Jr]

Fold like the NY Knicks in the 4th Quarter..

You shouldn't criticize someone until you walk a mile in their shoes; that
way when
you do, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

[ChrisBrown]

On Feb 17 2005 7:43 PM, David Nicoson wrote:

> NLH, 10 players, cash. Deep stacks.
>
> Sit down, fold to a raise on the big blind.
> Next hand, UTG raises pot.
> A player in middle position calls.
> You have AQo in the small blind.
>
> How would you play this and why?

2nd hand. out of position facing a uTG raise and a flat call? Easy fold.
Sit back and see how the hand develops so u can get a better read of the
table. Anything flop that helps you short of AAQ, AAA or QQQ is going to
be difficult for you to play. And even with those flops you won't win
much.

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[David Nicoson]

Mike Johnson wrote:
> Definitely fold, calling in this case is likely throwing away your
money.
>
>
> http://www.foldorraise.com/group.php?groupid=3
>
> You can check out some situations with AQ above. In a similar
situation
> on the site 90% of the people folded.

Also note that 40% of the people folded 46s in the big blind when there
was no raise.
http://www.foldorraise.com/results.php?mode=analyzer&handid=385&rating=1

I respect your personal judgement.

[Superman]

Every time I have a "check" or "fold" option, I fold. Is that a hole in my
game?

[jhem...@gmail.com]

This is a pretty cool site btw, thanks for sharing it :)

[Texas_pokermaniac]

On Feb 18 2005 10:42 AM, ChrisBrown wrote:

> On Feb 17 2005 7:43 PM, David Nicoson wrote:
>
> > NLH, 10 players, cash. Deep stacks.
> >
> > Sit down, fold to a raise on the big blind.
> > Next hand, UTG raises pot.
> > A player in middle position calls.
> > You have AQo in the small blind.
> >
> > How would you play this and why?
>
> 2nd hand. out of position facing a uTG raise and a flat call? Easy fold.
> Sit back and see how the hand develops so u can get a better read of the
> table. Anything flop that helps you short of AAQ, AAA or QQQ is going to
> be difficult for you to play. And even with those flops you won't win
> much.

PM

RAISE BUDDY RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
In this situation you are going to have to make a small raise and get the
caller to folder and maybe the raiser too. You can't be timid in this
game. You have a good hand to play from here.
Doyle suggest this and so does floporraise.com. Try it and see what the
pros recommend. You will start winning more often if you learn to make
these small raises to thin the field instead of looking for chances to
fold. I play strickly NL Cash and Tourneys and would never folded this
hand in SB/BB unless facing a big raise. Since I learned this I now have a
Pokerbankroll with and tAM card to draw from and I am willing consistently
in both cash games and torunaments. I won 1/2nd in 4 tournaments in
OCtober at Harrah's and my last NL cash game there netted me $1100 for a
$100-$300 limit buyin. Get Doyles SSII and read his section on NL and stop
looking for reasons to fold. If you don't mix it up you are going nowhere
in then NL games. In that case go back to limit.
Just my opinion of course.
Look it up adn you'll see I'm correct.
Pokermaniac

____________________________________________________________________ 

[ChrisBrown]

Do some research. Doyle hates AQ.

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[AcesCracked]

It would depend on how much the raise was. A small raise and I may
call, but I'd understand fully that out of position I'm probably
behind. Pray that you hit on the flop.

People seem to think that AK/AQ are great hands and something to push
hard before the flop. In many cases they are, but with a raise and
call, or worse a raise and a reraise you have to remember all you have
is ace high. I lowly pair of deuces will take the pot from you. Your
hand likely HAS to improve to win the pot.

Sean
Poker Champs: 50% rake back PLUS 50% affiliate rake back!
https://secure.pokerchamps.com/pokerpublic/arequest?acode=KEEPTHERAKE

[David Nicoson]

Texas_pokermaniac wrote:
> Get Doyles SSII and read his section on NL and stop
> looking for reasons to fold. If you don't mix it up you are going
> nowhere
> in then NL games. In that case go back to limit.
> Just my opinion of course.
> Look it up adn you'll see I'm correct.
> Pokermaniac

OK, so I guess this is tongue-in-cheek, because Doyle says quite the
opposite.

SSII, p. 614:
**************************
Trouble Hands
-------------
AQ AJ
AT KQ
KJ KT
QJ QT
JT 89

I call these borderline hands because I'd question calling a raise with
them. If they're suited, I'll call a raise with them and take a flop.
If they're not suited and I'm out of position, I won't call a raise.
***************************

So, point taken. I should read my books.

[Jive Dadson]

"Texas_pokermaniac" screamed in all caps
>
> RAISE BUDDY RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Your moniker is well noted.

> In this situation you are going to have to make a small raise and get the
> caller to folder and maybe the raiser too.

Did you mean "get the caller to fold"? Why do you think the caller is more
likely to fold than the raiser? That makes no sense. It takes a stronger hand
to call a raise cold than it does to make the first raise. The caller has the
best position of the three of you. It's likely he has the best hand of the three of
you.

[Jive Dadson]

"David Nicoson" <bigd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1108768338.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

The situation described is far worse. Not only are you out of position, but the pot was
raised from early position (UTG!) and then called by a player who didn't have a chip in
the the pot.