FUCK PARADISE POKER
Bedini
straight has his head up his ass. Go ahead and keep playing there. You will be
robbed of every penny you own. FUCKING ASSHOLES.
foldem
Yeah, tell us what you really think. And thanks for posting so
articulately on a public forum.
Dsklansky
>>straight has his head up his ass. Go ahead and keep playing there. You will
>be
>>robbed of every penny you own. FUCKING ASSHOLES.
>
I can see how intense statistical analysis could be strong evidence for your
second accusation. But how can you be sure of your first?
Richard John Cavell
> >Bunch of low life cock sucking thieves. Anyone who thinks those games are
> >>straight has his head up his ass. Go ahead and keep playing there. You will
> >be
> >>robbed of every penny you own. FUCKING ASSHOLES.
>
> I can see how intense statistical analysis could be strong evidence for your
> second accusation.
Wait for my article in the Medical Journal of Zimbabwe 2000 volume 23: "On
the correlation between spontaneous intra-anal cranial placement and
cynical perception". Doctor Mbqiuejj Kkkki writes "There is clearly no
positive predictive value between the two in spite of the common
assumption. Hopefully the hurtful, repeated accusations of a link can now
finally be laid to rest."
--------------
Richard Cavell
Melbourne University Medical Student, Debater, Chess Player, etc.
- r.ca...@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au
Celebrating the Micro$oft breakup.
Newsgroups - Please keep it on the group, and copy your replies to me via
email. (Server problems).
fish...@my-deja.com
In article <20000906030505...@ng-fz1.aol.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jeff Woods
dskl...@aol.com says...
Actually, I'm wondering how Paradise can take money out of my portfolio,
since "every penny I own" is not available on the credit card I've made
available to them....
The degree of provability for the former is much easier than the latter,
as all he needs is videotape. Somehow, I doubt that the owner is a low-
life or a thief, but as a woman, there's a certain degree of probability
that she is, indeed, a cock-sucker.
This is not a Bad Thing(tm). ;-)
In fact, Paradise and Planet have made it possible to raise your straight
for real money, and get a blowjob all at the same time, in the privacy of
your home.
I think this may be the reason I lost the "heads-up" tournament round to
Bill Chen.
roun...@my-deja.com
You takes your chances you pay the price.
JohTho
My GAWD - did you really loose THAT MUCH !!?
Bedini <bed...@aol.com> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:20000906030505...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Brad
Are you unhappy about something? Other than being a lowlife vulgar
whiner that is.
Brad
Shoot for the moon, for if you miss, you will be
among the stars.......
PBO COP
PSugarTess
Dan Mullen
that Paradise is using bots or computer players? I've played at both Planet
and Paradise, and I have logged MANY hours in the lower and mid limits. My
results at the two have been like night and day (consistent winner at
Planet; consistenly sucked out at Paradise).
It would make sense that they would have bots because it would keep the
census at tables up and no one would suspect (or, more importantly, be able
to prove) a thing. Personally, I'm just sick of being sucked out by someone
with garbage, who plays like he is clairvoyant, and never responds when I
say "nice hand" even though I am cursing the sonuvabytch under my breath at
home.
OFFICIALLY, I will never play Paradise again....
Caveat emptor.
Dsklansky
computer yet plays poker games well enough to win. As to bots that are
cheating, anyone who believes that that is a favorite to be true, needs to have
their head examined.
Dan Mullen
> Do you mean bots that are cheating? If not they would get destroyed, since
no
> computer yet plays poker games well enough to win. As to bots that are
> cheating, anyone who believes that that is a favorite to be true, needs to
have
> their head examined.
>
Head examined? Maybe. However, playing according to the strategies discussed
in "Hold Em for Adv Players" has won me diddly squat on Paradise but has
paid huge dividends for me on Planet.
Can you explain that?
Mike Caro
David --
Now you went and done it. I ain't happy.
Are you saying I can't (or haven't) programmed a computer capable of
beating typical players? Wanna put real money on it?
You're possibly right about everyone else, though.
Straight Flushes,
Mike Caro
Dsklansky
>in "Hold Em for Adv Players" has won me diddly squat on Paradise but has
>paid huge dividends for me on Planet.
>
>Can you explain that?
>
didn't you say that at first. Then unquestionably Paradise is cheating you,
probably with bots that know what cards are coming.
Dsklansky
ninehanded typical 15-30 game. Even more surprised if Mike Caro with less
resources has done it. But my opinion stems from my understanding of the
difficulties involved. I am firmly on the side of those who believe it can be
done in theory. Head up games especially. Nine handed, however, I'll have to
see it to believe it.
minus200
minus200
Andrew Prock
Maybe you should go to IRC poker and watch the U of Alberta cream the
players in a game pretty similar to a loose 15/30. (This is based on
Mason's description of players cold calling raises with A2s in a
30/60 game.)
- Andrew
Dsklansky
>players in a game pretty similar to a loose 15/30. (This is based on
>Mason's description of players cold calling raises with A2s in a
>30/60 game.)
>
>- Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
What about 15-30 on Paradise or Planet. Is there some reason it can't play
there?
Andrew Prock
Dsklansky <dskl...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Maybe you should go to IRC poker and watch the U of Alberta cream the
>>players in a game pretty similar to a loose 15/30. (This is based on
>>Mason's description of players cold calling raises with A2s in a
>>30/60 game.)
>
>there?
I'm actually pretty certain that they *could* run the bot their
if they invested the time in porting it to windows, and spent the
time making the appropriate hooks into the software. They may or
may have not done this, and if they did I'm sure they aren't going
to publicize it.
The other problem is that the 15/30 on Paradise (I haven't played
15/30 on Planet) is that that game is almost *never* loose. It's
probably a prime example of the kind of game you don't want to play
in normally. Almost everyone there is a lifetime winner in live
play, and those who are *fish* don't last long as Paradise (and
Planet, I think) have a $2000/month max loss rate.
That's not to say that the players are great. Many play the flop
too loosely. Many are way too aggressive. I had someone 4 bet
me on the flop with one overcard and a gutshot yesterday. I guess
they thought I was weak.
I'm sure the weekend Las Vegas 15/30 is a cakewalk by comparison,
under normal touristy conditions.
- Andrew
Mike Caro
David, David, David. I programmed full-handed limit poker as a WARM-UP
to programming Orac at no-limit heads up.
If you think a team of computer scientists from a largely obscure
university in Alberta can even come close to duplicating what Mike
Caro did 17 years ago, I'm going to have to go over your poker books
sentence by sentence to see if there are any similar flaws in your
logic that I missed.
Straight Flushes,
Mike Caro
Andrew Prock
Mike Caro <ca...@caro.com> wrote:
>
>If you think a team of computer scientists from a largely obscure
>university in Alberta can even come close to duplicating what Mike
>Caro did 17 years ago, I'm going to have to go over your poker books
>sentence by sentence to see if there are any similar flaws in your
>logic that I missed.
Mike,
I know I've asked you this before, but...
What exactly did you do?
I mean how did you go about programming the AI. What
techniuqes did you use? Did you handle player
variability? Without knowing exactly what you did,
it's hard to say whether one bot is better than the
other.
Of course from a practical standpoint, the U of A
bot is much better than yours for the simple reason
that it is actually working in this day and age, while
the existance yours seems to be mostly relegated to
your memories.
It would be great if you gave ORAC new live and shared
some of your wisdom with the rest of the world.
- Andrew
Jeffrey B. Siegal
> What about 15-30 on Paradise or Planet. Is there some reason it can't play
> there?
The interfaces for IRC poker are open; anyone can write a program to
connect to IRC and play poker. This is not true of the real-money
games, as far as I know. The developers would need to cooperate and
provide an interface to hook in a computer player, or someone would have
to reverse engineer it.
Mike Caro
wrote:
Andrew --
I've answered you before.
To give you one more hint, the reason Team Alberta is so far from
making a perfect player is this...
Listen closely...
Don't miss it, I'm going to say it fast...
This project has very little to do with computer science and the more
they think it has to do with computer science, the less successful
they are apt to be.
There, now you know. I've only shared that with my closest friends, so
I hope you're going to honor the secret. If you tell TA, it will break
my heart.
The reason I am so confident about my ability to program a superior
poker player is that I've thought about it from all meaningful angles,
using peculiar cells never known to exist in a human brain. And I can
visualize this at least nine levels deeper than TA can theorize that
levels hypothetically exist.
I apologize for not making myself clear sooner. If I can get
permission, I will put all the scientific and computer articles and TV
video clips about Orac (Caro spelled backwards) on my online MCU
campus. I'll let you know.
You're a very nice, bright, articulate person and I have great hope
for you. It's good to be skeptical, but -- quite frankly -- you
coincidentally sound like another guy who's gotten private e-mail
encouragement from Mason Malmuth to ask these questions.
Straight Flushes,
Mike Caro
Dsklansky
>to programming Orac at no-limit heads up.
>
program.
>If you think a team of computer scientists from a largely obscure
>university in Alberta can even come close to duplicating what Mike
>Caro did 17 years ago, I'm going to have to go over your poker books
>sentence by sentence to see if there are any similar flaws in your
>logic that I missed.
>
>Straight Flushes,
>Mike Caro
Forgive me. I simply guessed that since the number of man hours they put
into it beat you by a factor of 100, and the computing power beat you by a
factor of at least a million, their end result might be say one and a half
times as good as yours. There won't however be such similar flaws in HPFAP.
Mason wrote it.
Dsklansky
>15/30 on Planet) is that that game is almost *never* loose. It's
>probably a prime example of the kind of game you don't want to play
>in normally. Almost everyone there is a lifetime winner in live
>play, and those who are *fish* don't last long as Paradise (and
>Planet, I think) have a $2000/month max loss rate.
>
>That's not to say that the players are great. Many play the flop
>too loosely. Many are way too aggressive. I had someone 4 bet
>me on the flop with one overcard and a gutshot yesterday. I guess
>they thought I was weak.
>
>I'm sure the weekend Las Vegas 15/30 is a cakewalk by comparison,
>under normal touristy conditions.
>
>- Andrew
>
surprise me if there exists programs that could beat easier ones.
James A Connell
>
>Listen closely...
>
>Don't miss it, I'm going to say it fast...
>
>This project has very little to do with computer science and the more
>they think it has to do with computer science, the less successful
>they are apt to be.
But what does it have to do WITH..?
Psychology?
Statistics?
Feng Shui?
Whay do I feel like I'm talking to Yoda?
Jim Connell
Gary Carson
The solution is to get Mason to start playing on Paradise. He says he's
never been cheated and that, if he was cheated his vast expeirnce would foil
them.
If we could just clone Mason we could eliminate all cheating from poker.
--
Gary Carson
www.garycarson.com
fish...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8p83ne$f0r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Where is Gary when you need him?
>In article <20000906233044...@ng-bd1.aol.com>,
Jeff Woods
says...
> I'm actually pretty certain that they *could* run the bot their
> if they invested the time in porting it to windows, and spent the
> time making the appropriate hooks into the software. They may or
> may have not done this, and if they did I'm sure they aren't going
> to publicize it.
Because Paradise's clients use SSL connections, and unpublished protocols
for communications, if UAB *has* managed to get their bots playing on
Paradise, then they've also cracked EVERYTHING about Paradise.
This would be the one thing (an external bot, or internal bots) that
would swing me out of the camp of Paradise supporters.
I doubt it has happened.
Andrew Prock
Gary Carson <garyc...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Here I am.
>
>The solution is to get Mason to start playing on Paradise. He says he's
>never been cheated and that, if he was cheated his vast expeirnce would foil
>them.
I think that would be a great idea. I wonder how he'd do at the 15/30.
I'm sure he'd win, but I'm also sure he might find it a totally different
beast than he's ever faced before.
- Andrew
Andrew Prock
Dsklansky <dskl...@aol.com> wrote:
> Well my original statement basically applied to these games. It would not
>surprise me if there exists programs that could beat easier ones.
Well if you want easy, then try and online 2/4 game. I'm
absolutely confident that the U of A software is good enough
to beat those games. Poker really isn't *that* hard.
- Andrew
POScorpio
>The reason I am so confident about my ability to program a superior
>poker player is that I've thought about it from all meaningful angles,
>using peculiar cells never known to exist in a human brain.
past and future. Your knowledge is surpass anything in the world of poker.
But, I love those little bots on irc they were so funny and cute. You will try
to build a program but. no one will ever produce one that will beat a human. A
machine will always be just that a machine built by humans for humans to
use.Just remember any good woman poker play with pms will blow that ole'
computer away. As for Pardise right now the poker God is shining on me quards
last night in 3/6 $112. pot love it . Planet was not kind to me a couple of
nights ago. But thats poker. Tess.
Chris Smith
| Well if you want easy, then try and online 2/4 game. I'm
| absolutely confident that the U of A software is good enough
| to beat those games. Poker really isn't *that* hard.
Urk.
First the group was all how slow and tedious the online games go
compared to real poker. Then how soft the games are. THEN, well,
the games do go pretty fast, and, well, they can be pretty tough.
Now *POKI* can beat the game I'm barely holding my own with?
ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Terrence Chan
wrote:
>Maybe you should go to IRC poker and watch the U of Alberta cream the
>players in a game pretty similar to a loose 15/30. (This is based on
>Mason's description of players cold calling raises with A2s in a
>30/60 game.)
Which IRC channel is this? I haven't loaded GPkr in a while, but I
want to watch this thing play.
--
http://www.sfu.ca/~tchand
Boy: "Victoria, you are more beautiful...than my dog. Delete, delete. Delete."
Boy: "My dog... Delete. Delete, delete."
Boy: "Victoria, I love you. Send."
Girl: "Reply. Ohhh, that's so sweet. Send."
Andrew Prock
All you have to do is play tighter on the flop, and you'll
do fine.
- Andrew
Dan Mullen
my results have been good at times bad at others.
But the "bads" outweighed the "goods" by a large margin at Paradise. I
consider myself to be a very good mid limit player and have been winning
consistently at Planet all summer long.
"Quick" <dhor...@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
news:968354817.259445@sj-nntpcache-5...
> Excellent David! You keep losing points with me whenever you start
> out with "I'm posting this on Mason's behalf..." (although maybe that
> is the best solution for S&M and us) and then you rebound with reply's
> like this.
>
> Dan, I'd guess you're experiencing short term results not based on
> a sample size large enough to be statistically significant. Be honest
> now. Did you keep records of how many hours you actually played
> to justify saying "MANY" hours of play?
>
> -Quick
>
> "Dsklansky" <dskl...@aol.com> wrote
Jim Mickey
wrote:
>The other problem is that the 15/30 on Paradise (I haven't played
>15/30 on Planet) is that that game is almost *never* loose. It's
>probably a prime example of the kind of game you don't want to play
>in normally. Almost everyone there is a lifetime winner in live
>play, and those who are *fish* don't last long as Paradise (and
>Planet, I think) have a $2000/month max loss rate.
Andrew, you ever played the $15 game on Paradise?? Dunno where you
usually play or what you compare to, but I would think Paradise $15
and $20 games fit most definitions of loose. (maybe let's ask Izmet,
the local "loose" expert...:) )
Absolutely no chance that "almost everyone" is a lifetime winner.
More likely not even 10% of the players on any given high limit table
there. Horrible play. Terrific turnover in individual players, I
think it must approache 95% per month, i.e., of the population playing
any given day, I would guess only a very few will be seen a month from
now.
Anyone know how many higher limit players have been regularly playing
over the past, say, half-year or more?? I think not many.
>That's not to say that the players are great. Many play the flop
>too loosely. Many are way too aggressive. I had someone 4 bet
>me on the flop with one overcard and a gutshot yesterday. I guess
>they thought I was weak.
There are a few worth their salt, but only a handful. Surprises me
the sheer lack of predictable talent there.
Ed Barrett
check results, you will find that the stats do not support its prolific results.
For instance, on 9/19/99, Pokibot1 had 16826, on 9/26/99 this had grown to
46090. The posted individual results for this timeframe show that Poki had a gain
of around $125. I know that not all results are posted, but if you follow through
to August 2000, the trend will be the same. Maybe UAB can explain this.
If this is explainable, there is another factor that might enter into the bots
success. That is, a lot of players like to challenge the bot and therefore play
incorrectly, enabling Poki to reap extra bets per hour.(This is my personal
observation.)
Ed Barrett
3.8 Lpf/1.0 gpf (the nut flush)
HOSH115
human brain just makes to many mistakes. It is creative but so will the
computer be. Edge to the computer count on it.
Art Santella
>Bunch of low life cock sucking thieves. Anyone who thinks those games are
>straight has his head up his ass. Go ahead and keep playing there. You will be
>robbed of every penny you own. FUCKING ASSHOLES.
And your point is?
"If You Ain't The Lead Dog, The Scenery Never Changes"
Andrew Prock
Terrence Chan <terren...@telus.net> wrote:
>On 7 Sep 2000 04:44:16 GMT, pr...@isles.spa.umn.edu (Andrew Prock)
>wrote:
>
>>Maybe you should go to IRC poker and watch the U of Alberta cream the
>>players in a game pretty similar to a loose 15/30. (This is based on
>>Mason's description of players cold calling raises with A2s in a
>>30/60 game.)
>
>Which IRC channel is this? I haven't loaded GPkr in a while, but I
>want to watch this thing play.
Been a while for me too, but i'd try 20/40 in the early
afternoons.
- Andrew
PSugarTess
>computer be. Edge to the computer count on it.
Never, if that is the case to be true than computers will replace man and rule
the world. But, the bottom line is that a human will still have to build and
progam it unless they start to reproduce themselves. Geesh, sitting at a poker
table with emotional P/C is about the last thing I want to do better yet, how
about some computerized dealers. Foxswoods could sure use them just think a
perfect dealer and no tokeing. Why toke its not like the P/C has a family to
support. Tess.
BJDocaz
It sound as if you might have had a loosing session at Paradice casino.Maybe
it was because you didnt sit in your lucky seat or maybe your cyber-dealer was
unlucky for you.Or maybe your opponents got a'Trojen horse in to your system,
or maybe you were playing against five guys who were colluding against you,or
maybe you wernt competing against real opponents at all but cyber Bots that are
computers playing like humans or just maybe you came in with too many weak
starting hands, , called with hands with negative mathmatical
expectations,refused to drop hands that were beeten, or just had a bad run of
cards.HOW DO SHE KNOW
Most Sincerly
Doc AZ