OT By Joe (We Were Soldiers Once) Galloway
Irish Mike
author of "We were soldiers once - and young":
Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man
By Joe Galloway
If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete now.
If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen.
Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls
being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us?
The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign
policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which
civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer
than our puny two centuries-plus.
I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning
against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I
want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German.
Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq.
Kind of nice to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps
we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time
to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save,
we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying
the bills for their own defense.
Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of
liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think
so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up
above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we
also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau
Thierry also.
For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the
first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's
where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care
about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I spelled that
right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German.
Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian
problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I
checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they
would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun.
Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They
"liked"" us a lot better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than
50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they
currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to
bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans
on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north.
Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that
North Korea currently enjoys. Ooh huh. Sure.
I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now
doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what
we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would
like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should
follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator
Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and
orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama
has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them.
Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world
would love us.
Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those
things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I
don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with
a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in
favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact.
But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other
countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the
countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them
or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry
about them, how about them worrying about us?
We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies
of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear
weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them
when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were
freezing.
In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my
cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University.
I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire,"
and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded
him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in
1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or
Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his
grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in
Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they
didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the
"American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian.
Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our
house, and we don't seem to like anyone.
Provided by Joe Galloway, author of We Were Soldiers.
Rob Oldfield
'Two centuries-plus"? America has been in charge since 1803? Maybe
'senile' would be a better word.
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:NxV4a.337$se1.2...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> Following e-mail has no poker content but is from Joe Galloway who is the
> author of "We were soldiers once - and young":
>
> Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man
>
> By Joe Galloway
>
> If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete
now.
> If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen.
>
>
> Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls
> being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us?
> The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign
> policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which
> civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer
> than our puny two centuries-plus.
>
<snip>
jw_steve
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:NxV4a.337$se1.2...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> author of "We were soldiers once - and young":
>
<snip spam e-mail post>
No, it almost certainly isn't.
jw steve
Irish Mike
Isn't what?
Irish Mike
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:QuV4a.29905$Mh3.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Peter Lizak
Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
I think you should open your eyes.
pli
(Canadian)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Lizak
pli...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Scientific Computing Lab, University of Waterloo
Irish Mike
> You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
>
> I think you should open your eyes."
I agree with Galloway's comments. I believe America has been a patsy for
most of the world for the past 50 years. America spends billions of dollars
and sacrifices the lives of its soldiers to help ungrateful countries
maintain their freedom and lifestyles - and this includes most of Europe.
Muslims hate America because of our freedom, success and religious beliefs.
It has nothing to do with Israel. These nut cases feel their entire
oppressive culture is threatened by every thing in America from McDonalds to
bathing suits.
On 9/11 the terrorist demonstrated that they have the will to destroy
America, but don't yet have the weapons. However, they are working with the
direct assistance of countries like Iraq (and the indirect assistance of
countries of like France and Germany who sell them military material) to
develop those weapons. I have no doubt that if they had the capability they
would not have hesitated detonate a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon
in New York or Washington. We either stop them now or wait to fill more
body bags. In my opinion we should have killed that psycho son-of-a-bitch
Sadam ten years ago.
It is an unfortunate reality for American soldiers that their
sacrifices are rarely supported and almost never appreciated.
Irish Mike
"Peter Lizak" <pli...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.030219...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca..
.
^Halibut^
pli...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Scientific Computing Lab, University of Waterloo WROTE:
"Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
I think you should open your eyes."
##################
When I was a kid i had a coach who told me "no matter what you do 40% of the
people will like you 40% will hate you and the other 20% just don't give a
shit" America should not let the opinion of other countrys dictate our
actions or our foreign policy.
In fact, if you did a little research you might find the opposing positions
of Germany, France and Russia are all due to THEIR financial interests in
Iraq.
I think GW is doing the right thing and looking after Americas best
interests. I really don't think he's parking 200,000 troops on the Iraqi
border without some serious knowledge of what is being developed in Iraq.
Gary Carson
wrote:
>"Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
>> You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate
America?
>>
>> I think you should open your eyes."
>I agree with Galloway's comments.
Like the one where we've been a world power for 200 years? Like back
when the British were burning the White House and the French were
saving our butts?
He might be a good screenwriter but his background in American History
is a little suspect.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
calmar
> In fact, if you did a little research you might find the opposing positions
> of Germany ... are all due to THEIR financial interests in
> Iraq.
Could you may explain that? (besides of mentioning a few private companies,
which have been able to sell whatever over a middleman to Iraq)
calmar
--
(o_
//\
V_/_ www.calmar.ws
Jdoo123
>From: "Rob Oldfield"
>'Two centuries-plus"? America has been in charge since 1803? Maybe
>'senile' would be a better word.
>
Of course not,and I dont think the original post really meant that.I hope he
was just refering to our existence as a nation for 200+ years.But what do you
mean "senile"?Your people didnt feel that way in the 1930s when your very
existence as a nation depended on the lend-lease program or our entering the
war.And thankfully,apparently they dont feel that way now,we are true allies
for good reason.Look around the world,and count your friends.The N
Koreans,China,Russia,Cuba,any of the fanatics in the middle east?As Ben
Franklin aptly put in in the late war with Britian "we must all hang together
or we will surely hang seperately".
Gary Carson
>
>Of course not,and I dont think the original post really meant that.
The original poster writes for a living. I think it's safe to assume
he meant what he wrote.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Linda Sherman
news:3e545a6b...@news.mindspring.com...
> Like the one where we've been a world power for 200 years? Like back
> when the British were burning the White House and the French were
> saving our butts?
>
> He might be a good screenwriter but his background in American History
> is a little suspect.
He's got more than a little problem with Roman history, too.
I also liked the part where he says we don't keep the stuff we take. I
wonder where he thinks white Americans came from.
Lin
Irish Mike
when the British were burning the White House and the French were
saving our butts?
Well bucko, I think any debt the United States ever owed France has been
repaid many, many times over. In fact, if it wasn't for the United States
France would be a German suburb.
Irish Mike
"Gary Carson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:3e545a6b...@news.mindspring.com...
Irish Mike
wonder where he thinks white Americans came from.
"Linda Sherman"
Yeah, and what indian tribe are you from?
Irish Mike
<linsh...@dimsbam.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:gPZ4a.42814$rq4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Irish Mike
>'senile' would be a better word.
"Jdoo123"
Well Jdoo, if you are calling Joe Galloway senile, send us a list of the
books, articles and screen plays you've published.
Irish Mike
<jdo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030219235545...@mb-fu.aol.com...
Jdoo123
>Two centuries-plus"? America has been in charge since 1803? Maybe
>>'senile' would be a better word.
>
>"Jdoo123"
>
>Well Jdoo, if you are calling Joe Galloway senile, send us a list of the
>books, articles and screen plays you've published.
>
>Irish Mike
How do you get this from my post??Go back and reread,I was responding to Rob
Oldfields post calling America senile.Better lay off the Bushmills too.
Jdoo123
>The original poster writes for a living. I think it's safe to assume
>he meant what he wrote
Well then hes mistaken if he thinks that.And I dont really believe he meant
that,regardless of the safety of assuming what he wrote.Remember Gary,when you
assume you make an ASS out of U and ME.
Irish Mike
As a point of information bucko - I never, ever drink Bushmills - although I
did take a piss on the side of their brewery once (it's located in Northern
Ireland near the Giant's Causeway). I was just a lad but I still remember
my Grandfather telling me never to drink that stuff because the British
brewed it with canal water and wouldn't hire any Catholics. Now, if you had
said lay off the Jameson...
Irish Mike
"Jdoo123" <jdo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030220014939...@mb-fb.aol.com...
Linda Sherman
> I also liked the part where he says we don't keep the stuff we take.
I
> wonder where he thinks white Americans came from.
>
> "Linda Sherman"
>
> Yeah, and what indian tribe are you from?
My point was that he can't get his historical facts straight. He said
we don't keep the stuff we take, when obviously we do. He also made
some fanciful claims about Roman history. As Carson and I have tried to
point out, the guy is dumber than dumb when it comes to history.
Lin
Gary Carson
wrote:
>Better lay off the Bushmills too.
>
>As a point of information bucko - I never, ever drink Bushmills -
although I
>did take a piss on the side of their brewery once (it's located in
Northern
>Ireland near the Giant's Causeway).
I think it's a distillery.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
lvdlrs
Irish Mike wrote:
> Well Jdoo, if you are calling Joe Galloway senile, send us a list of the
> books, articles and screen plays you've published.
Let's not forget all the passes he's caught, as well.
Gary (...) Philips
Irish Mike
Irish Mike
"Gary Carson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:3e548079....@news.mindspring.com...
Paul G.
> As Ben
> Franklin aptly put in in the late war with Britian "we must all hang
together
> or we will surely hang seperately".
I got yur Ben Franklin hanging. Washington warned of foreign entanglements.
-Paul G.
Tosspot
> "Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
>
>>You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
>>
>>I think you should open your eyes."
>
>
>
> I agree with Galloway's comments. I believe America has been a patsy for
> most of the world for the past 50 years. America spends billions of dollars
> and sacrifices the lives of its soldiers to help ungrateful countries
> maintain their freedom and lifestyles - and this includes most of Europe.
I can't understand this. The yanks want to go home, every one *wants*
them to go home, so why the fuck don't they go home!
> Muslims hate America because of our freedom, success and religious beliefs.
> It has nothing to do with Israel. These nut cases feel their entire
> oppressive culture is threatened by every thing in America from McDonalds to
> bathing suits.
Freedom? America! You must be joking Sir.
> On 9/11 the terrorist demonstrated that they have the will to destroy
> America, but don't yet have the weapons. However, they are working with the
> direct assistance of countries like Iraq (and the indirect assistance of
> countries of like France and Germany who sell them military material) to
> develop those weapons. I have no doubt that if they had the capability they
> would not have hesitated detonate a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon
> in New York or Washington. We either stop them now or wait to fill more
> body bags. In my opinion we should have killed that psycho son-of-a-bitch
> Sadam ten years ago.
Weapons to Saddam!? Can't be, he got all he needed from the US. The
Brits sold quite a lot to Saddam until very recently, think of it as a
topup.
> It is an unfortunate reality for American soldiers that their
> sacrifices are rarely supported and almost never appreciated.
Nahhh, dead Americans are always appreciated. The ultimate sacrifice,
to go where you're country tells you simply for the pay, bonuses and
priviliges.
<snip>
--
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax
si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Gary Carson
wrote:
>Well, I pissed on it none the less.
Oh, I'm sure you did. I'd imagine public urination is pretty common
in Ireland.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Irish Mike
State Buckeyes.
Irish Mike
"lvdlrs" <lvd...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E54816D...@midsouth.rr.com...
^Halibut^
> > In fact, if you did a little research you might find the opposing
positions
> > of Germany ... are all due to THEIR financial interests in
> > Iraq.
> Could you may explain that? (besides of mentioning a few private
companies,
> which have been able to sell whatever over a middleman to Iraq)
>
> calmar
here are a few facts for you.
materials that are sold to Iraq thru front companies has been going on for
years by companies all over the world, the U.S. included.
The French and Russians in particular have vested interests in trying to
keep Saddam happy due to their Iraqi oil interests. They want to develop
two huge reserves in Iraq.
The fields in question lie in southern Iraq: Majnoun and West Qurna "The
Giant". These fields have lain largely idle for several decades, as they
were repeatedly attacked during the Iran-Iraq war, as well as the Gulf War.
Russia, which is owed some $8 billion by Iraq, has a $3.5 billion,
twenty-three-year deal to rehabilitate Iraqi oil fields. Included in this
agreement is the fifteen-billion-barrel West Qurna field. A 1997 deal
between Baghdad and Moscow resulted in a plan for the Russian company Lukoil
to begin oil production at the site. For years, Iraq has been negotiating a
contract with the French company Elf for the lucrative twenty-billion-barrel
Majnoun field. But, citing the U.N. sanctions, neither of these "friendly
countries" moved much on the projects.
Germany has been the number one weapons supplier to Iraq for a number of
years -- up to and through 2001. A report, according to Tageszeitung, names
eighty German entities who transferred knowledge, components, substances and
"even entire technical facilities for the development of atomic, chemical
and biological weapons of mass destruction to Iraq since 1975."
The paper reports that the dossier contains several indications of cases,
where German authorities right up to the Finance Ministry tolerated the
illegal arms cooperation and also promoted to it to an extent.
What if Saddam were to launch a nuke at Saudi or Kuwaiti oil fields
contaminating them? What kind of affect would that have on the US economy?
Or what about a nuke at Israel? He launched SCUD missles many times during
the Gulf War, what if they have even a small nuke, biological or chemical
agent this time?
The US wants stability in the region because Saddam is a psychopath that has
the potential of destabilizing an entire region which supplies the majority
of the world petroleum.
France and Russia just know when we go in and crush Saddam their chances of
salvaging the oil deals are pretty much toast. They would prefer no
conflict since that is the only hope they have to salvage their interests.
Jdoo123
>Germany has been the number one weapons supplier to Iraq for a number of
>years -- up to and through 2001. A report, according to Tageszeitung, names
>eighty German entities who transferred knowledge, components, substances and
>"even entire technical facilities for the development of atomic, chemical
>and biological weapons of mass destruction to Iraq since 1975."
Ahh,the old experts on chemical weapons.Anyone know if zyklon B is one of their
exports?
jw_steve
> "No, it almost certainly isn't."
>
> Isn't what?
>
Isn't written by Joe Galloway. If you do a little search on the
internet you find one place it is posted without attribution as if
it is one person's own writing. Another place it was written
by "Sig" an endearing soldier who served in WWII and Korea.
In reality, like so much other junk mail it is undoubtedly written
by some anonymous soul, passed around the internet until
someone slaps an attiribution on.
jw steve
JTAutry
"Linda Sherman" <linsh...@dimsbam.worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ke%4a.43005$rq4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> My point was that he can't get his historical facts straight. He said
> we don't keep the stuff we take, when obviously we do. He also made
> some fanciful claims about Roman history. As Carson and I have tried to
> point out, the guy is dumber than dumb when it comes to history.
>
> Lin
>
I just by "the guy" you mean whomever wrote the piece in question and not
necessarily Joe Galloway. As someone already pointed out, it's most likely
not his.
JT
JTAutry
"Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
news:3E54880F...@yahoo.tits.com...
> Nahhh, dead Americans are always appreciated. The ultimate sacrifice,
> to go where you're country tells you simply for the pay, bonuses and
> priviliges.
>
This comment angers me in ways I cannot explain. My father was sent into
war, watched his friends die, and had to listen to my sister ask my mother
when he returned, "Is that my daddy?". He was sent, as in TAKEN from his
family and FORCED to go to war.
Say what you want about US policy and US leaders, I thank God we have that
right. But don't even begin to think that you can lump every Amerinca
soldier into some category that fits with your obvious hatred for us
"yanks".
JT
Irish Mike
shot fired in anger. I always wonder what guys like you would say if your
own ass had ever been on the line (which, of course, it never will be).
Too bad you weren't visiting the WTC on 9/11 - the experience would have
been educational. Of course, by your logic, those 3,000 Americans got what
they deserved for being there.
Irish Mike
"Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
news:3E54880F...@yahoo.tits.com...
Irish Mike
watched the interviews he gave and I fought in Vietnam shortly after the
battle depicted in "We were soldiers once" took place. It sounds like
Galloway to me. In any case, I agree with the writer's opinion.
Irish Mike
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_H45a.30051$Mh3.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Irish Mike
not nearly as common-place as some would have you believe.
Irish Mike
"Gary Carson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:3e548873....@news.mindspring.com...
Craig Permenter
"Peter Lizak" <pli...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.030219...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca..
.
>
> Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
> You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
>
> I think you should open your eyes.
>
> pli
> (Canadian)
>
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Irish Mike wrote:
>
> > Following e-mail has no poker content but is from Joe Galloway who is
the
> > author of "We were soldiers once - and young":
> >
> > Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man
> >
> > By Joe Galloway
> >
> > If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete
now.
> > If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen.
> >
> >
> > Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls
> > being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us?
> > The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign
> > policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which
> > civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer
> > than our puny two centuries-plus.
> >
> > I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning
> > against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I
> > want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German.
> > Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq.
> > Kind of nice to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps
> > we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time
> > to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save,
> > we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying
> > the bills for their own defense.
> >
> > Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of
> > liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think
> > so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up
> > above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we
> > also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau
> > Thierry also.
> >
> > For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the
> > first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's
> > where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care
> > about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I spelled that
> > right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German.
> >
> > Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian
> > problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I
> > checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they
> > would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun.
> >
> > Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They
> > "liked"" us a lot better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than
> > 50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they
> > currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to
> > bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans
> > on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north.
> > Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that
> > North Korea currently enjoys. Ooh huh. Sure.
> >
> > I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now
> > doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what
> > we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would
> > like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should
> > follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator
> > Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and
> > orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama
> > has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them.
> > Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world
> > would love us.
> >
> > Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those
> > things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I
> > don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with
> > a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in
> > favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact.
> > But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other
> > countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the
> > countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them
> > or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry
> > about them, how about them worrying about us?
> >
> > We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies
> > of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear
> > weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them
> > when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were
> > freezing.
> >
> > In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my
> > cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University.
> > I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire,"
> > and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded
> > him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in
> > 1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or
> > Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his
> > grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in
> > Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they
> > didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the
> > "American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian.
> >
> > Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our
> > house, and we don't seem to like anyone.
> >
> > Provided by Joe Galloway, author of We Were Soldiers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Lizak
> pli...@math.uwaterloo.ca
> Scientific Computing Lab, University of Waterloo
>
>
Tosspot
> "Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
> news:3E54880F...@yahoo.tits.com...
>
>
>>Nahhh, dead Americans are always appreciated. The ultimate sacrifice,
>>to go where you're country tells you simply for the pay, bonuses and
>>priviliges.
>>
>
>
> This comment angers me in ways I cannot explain. My father was sent into
> war, watched his friends die, and had to listen to my sister ask my mother
> when he returned, "Is that my daddy?". He was sent, as in TAKEN from his
> family and FORCED to go to war.
So? The point is, in case you missed it, is noone is being forced into
a war here, its payed up soldiers and reservists, its not the conscription.
>
> Say what you want about US policy and US leaders, I thank God we have that
> right. But don't even begin to think that you can lump every Amerinca
> soldier into some category that fits with your obvious hatred for us
> "yanks".
I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up and
advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you are
Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to a
trial?"
And before you start, no, the Brit government is no better.
Tosspot
Idiot. No I haven't served, but that doesn't mean to say I wouldn't,
possibly gladly. Next, we've lived in Europe with more terrorist
organisations than you can dream of, IRA,UDA,ETTA,RAF,UVLF to name a
few, so we're not exactly strangers to terrorism. Finally, no, they
didn't get what they deserved(other than being mostly bankers and
lawyers), but it was only 3,000! Jeez, it's not a drop in the ocean
compared to the retaliation on civilians who weren't involved and
probably don't even know what the WTC is.
Jdoo123
>If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up and
>advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you are
>Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to a
>trial?"
You dont know what the hell your talking about.This country has more than its
fair share of crackpots who crticize or call for the downfall of this
country.Hell,just look at Coleman right here on this forum.Hes jumping for joy
at the deaths of all the "imperialistic capitalist dogs" who died on
9/11.Unless I'm mistaken,sadly he isnt posting from jail.
jw_steve
<snip>
> I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
> terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
>
> If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up and
> advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you are
> Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to a
> trial?"
This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
world. How you can possibly criticize us for that is beyond belief.
Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
for president). The line is drawn between speech and a call for
action and rightly so, unless you are actually suggesting that
organizing a revolution that disregards the political process should
be legal. Can't imagine anyone would really argue that.
Anyway, the line has certainly been abused in the past (red scare,
etc.) but lessons have been learned and we continue to evolve our
free speech jurisprudence. Of course the point remains, nobody
else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
blowing hot air.
jw steve
Matu
"Jdoo123" <jdo...@aol.com> kirjoitti viestissä
news:20030220124554...@mb-ms.aol.com...
So you're sorry Coleman isn't in jail for semi-loony ramblings written more
or less seriusly.
In the old days in Soviet Union someone rambling like Coleman could have
been imprisoned or at least interrogated by the KGB, do you think that's the
direction USA should take in the future?
Tosspot
Go tell that to your suspected terrorists.
Tosspot
> "Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
> news:3E551267...@yahoo.tits.com...
> <snip>
>
>>I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
>>terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
>>
>>If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up and
>>advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you are
>>Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to a
>>trial?"
>
>
> This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
> world.
Actually I think we do.
> How you can possibly criticize us for that is beyond belief.
> Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> for president). The line is drawn between speech and a call for
> action and rightly so, unless you are actually suggesting that
> organizing a revolution that disregards the political process should
> be legal. Can't imagine anyone would really argue that.
> Anyway, the line has certainly been abused in the past (red scare,
> etc.) but lessons have been learned and we continue to evolve our
> free speech jurisprudence. Of course the point remains, nobody
> else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
> blowing hot air.
All of Europe.
Jdoo123
>From: Tosspot
>Go tell that to your suspected terrorists.
I hope like hell they're in jail,dont you?Or maybe you feel suspected
terrorists should be mixing freely in society?
Jdoo123
>So you're sorry Coleman isn't in jail for semi-loony ramblings written more
>or less seriusly.
No,not jail,a half way house where he could be kept under obsevation for his
and others safety maybe heh.
>In the old days in Soviet Union someone rambling like Coleman could have
>been imprisoned or at least interrogated by the KGB, do you think that's the
>direction USA should take in the future?
If you are asking me whether I think people that "jump for joy when the planes
hit the wtc" and call for the death of all "the capitalist pigs" and praise
Osama bin laden should be at least interrogated,then the answer is a most
definite yes.This country has been lax too long in who it lets in and what they
say and do.
Tosspot
FFS! The prosecution rests its case.
Tosspot
Wooohooo...a live one!
Matu
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> kirjoitti viestissä
news:QC85a.30167$Mh3.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
> news:3E551267...@yahoo.tits.com...
> <snip>
>
> > I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
> > terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
> >
> > If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up and
> > advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you are
> > Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to a
> > trial?"
>
> This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
> world.
Just bullshit.
> How you can possibly criticize us for that is beyond belief.
You make it easy.
- laws on terrorism (how long can you hold someone suspected of being a
terrorist?)
- intelligence agencies that monitor citizens and all political activity
> Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> for president).
...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as presidents?
> The line is drawn between speech and a call for
> action and rightly so, unless you are actually suggesting that
> organizing a revolution that disregards the political process should
> be legal. Can't imagine anyone would really argue that.
> Anyway, the line has certainly been abused in the past (red scare,
> etc.) but lessons have been learned and we continue to evolve our
> free speech jurisprudence.
You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you, now you
call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been learned.
> Of course the point remains, nobody
> else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
> blowing hot air.
If you have something to say AND enough people or money behind you,
you might make a difference...
Freedom for all,
possibilities for few.
Craig Permenter
"Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
news:3E551DB6...@yahoo.tits.com...
jw_steve
> jw_steve wrote:
<snip>
>> Of course the point remains, nobody
> > else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
> > blowing hot air.
>
> All of Europe.
>
Ah yes, the braintrust that brought us this gem banning...
"written material, images or other representations of ideas or
theories advocating, promoting or inciting hatred, discrimination
or violence against individuals or groups, based on race, color,
descent, or national or ethnic origin, or religion."
Pretty sure some of what Bill Coleman wrote could be fit
in there. 44 European think he has no right to say this.
The U.S. disagrees.
Interestingly enough opponents of the ban argued that it could
be used to prosecute political dissent in those countries.
Since you pass yourself off to be so knowledgeable about
free speech, I'll be curious to hear how the U.S. has such
restrictive free speech laws and yet refused to sign onto this
piece of crap and in 2001 the U.S.'s refusal to sign onto
the Council of Europe's original Convention on Cybercrime
because of such a provision caused the provision to be
dropped.
There are plenty of places to criticize the U.S., but your
attempt demonstrates the attitude of assume the U.S. is
wrong and attempt to rationalize it later. Your claims are
completely unsupported (and unsupportable). Give it up.
jw steve
Irish Mike
Now there's a shock.
"but it was only 3,000!"
Well to Americans, the 3,000 innocent civilians, police officers and fire
fighters killed in the WTC on 9/11 is not "only 3,000", and for you to say
they deserved it because they were "bankers and lawyers" is disgusting. On
the other hand, it's about what we expect from some European who has never
had his own ass on the line. If it wasn't for the United States you'd be
speaking German, you ungrateful twit.
Irish Mike
"Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
news:3E551391...@yahoo.tits.com...
Matu
"^Halibut^" <MR_PAP...@NOYAHOO.COM> kirjoitti viestissä
news:6j05a.130705$x9.30...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> What if Saddam were to launch a nuke at Saudi or Kuwaiti oil fields
> contaminating them? What kind of affect would that have on the US
economy?
> Or what about a nuke at Israel? He launched SCUD missles many times
during
> the Gulf War, what if they have even a small nuke, biological or chemical
> agent this time?
Ah the WHAT IF. Preventative selfdefence that causes death is still murder.
Iraq has reason to believe that US is planning to attack Iraq. Does Iraq
have a right to attack US before US attacks Iraq?
> The US wants stability in the region because Saddam is a psychopath that
has
> the potential of destabilizing an entire region which supplies the
majority
> of the world petroleum.
The UN wants stability in the region because George W. Bush is a psychopath
jw_steve
"Matu" <matu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3380r$2oj$1...@plaza.suomi.net...
>
> "jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> kirjoitti viestissä
> news:QC85a.30167$Mh3.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
> > news:3E551267...@yahoo.tits.com...
> > <snip>
> >
> > > I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
> > > terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
> > >
> > > If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up
and
> > > advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you
are
> > > Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to
a
> > > trial?"
> >
> > This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
> > world.
>
> Just bullshit.
That's not an argument.
> > How you can possibly criticize us for that is beyond belief.
>
> You make it easy.
> - laws on terrorism (how long can you hold someone suspected of being a
> terrorist?)
> - intelligence agencies that monitor citizens and all political activity
These are vaild criticisms. I differentiate this from speech, however,
these practices are widely criticized daily. It is also difficult to
compare our situation with any country that didn't experience
what we just did. Rights have definitely been curtailed, in part
because of the public's reaction to 9/11.
> > Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> > government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> > for president).
>
> ...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as presidents?
Er.. none because the majority of the country doesn't agree with
them. The point is radicals have their say and can try to
change the government through the proper channels. I am not sure
what the point is.. are we supposed to allow every radical
to have a go at running the government? The issue was the opportunity
to voice displeasure with the handling of our affairs. 100K people
did it a couple blocks from my house 3 days ago about 2 miles from
the site that used to be the WTC. And we get criticized
for our free speech?
> > The line is drawn between speech and a call for
> > action and rightly so, unless you are actually suggesting that
> > organizing a revolution that disregards the political process should
> > be legal. Can't imagine anyone would really argue that.
> > Anyway, the line has certainly been abused in the past (red scare,
> > etc.) but lessons have been learned and we continue to evolve our
> > free speech jurisprudence.
>
> You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you, now you
> call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been learned.
I was thinking this discussion was about events leading up to 9/11 so it
seems odd to use our behavior since as a justification for why we suck.
Anyway, the curtailing of rights is unfortunate but somewhat expected
following such an attack. Anything going on now is still a far cry
from what went on with the red scare, but you don't seem to really
care about such issues.
> > Of course the point remains, nobody
> > else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
> > blowing hot air.
>
> If you have something to say AND enough people or money behind you,
> you might make a difference...
As opposed to? Please tell me how in other countries a few people
can make a difference? While your at it, how do these countries
decide which out of the thousands and thousands of groups of few
people get to make a difference? And aren't the other groups getting
screwed. Point being, yeah you need enough people that seems pretty
obvious. I don't really see any other way? Maybe you could enlighten
me?
> Freedom for all,
> possibilities for few.
>
Nice rhetoric, it almost helps fill in for the complete lack of
original thought.
-jw steve
Jdoo123
I said:
>This country has been lax too long in who it lets in and what they
>> say and do.
You said:
>Wooohooo...a live one!
I think you are from the UK?How about we ship all of our suspected terrorists
to London and turn them loose,would that make you feel better?I know your heart
is just bleeding for them.
Matu
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> kirjoitti viestissä
news:yBY4a.364$se1.2...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
> "Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
> > You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
> >
> > I think you should open your eyes."
>
>
> I agree with Galloway's comments. I believe America has been a patsy for
> most of the world for the past 50 years. America spends billions of
dollars
> and sacrifices the lives of its soldiers to help ungrateful countries
> maintain their freedom and lifestyles - and this includes most of Europe.
Bullshit. America spends shit to help anyone and it's soldiers are always
protecting US intrests.
> Muslims hate America because of our freedom, success and religious
beliefs.
> It has nothing to do with Israel. These nut cases feel their entire
> oppressive culture is threatened by every thing in America from McDonalds
to
> bathing suits.
Do you think that's believable, can i have your medication? Are you also
talking about domestic muslims or just the "rag heads" ?
> On 9/11 the terrorist demonstrated that they have the will to destroy
> America, but don't yet have the weapons. However, they are working with
the
> direct assistance of countries like Iraq (and the indirect assistance of
> countries of like France and Germany who sell them military material) to
> develop those weapons.
No direct assistance has ever been proved and before the trailers of
Sandstorm II Al Qaeda considered Saddam as an enemy of Islam.
I have no doubt that if they had the capability they
> would not have hesitated detonate a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon
> in New York or Washington. We either stop them now or wait to fill more
> body bags. In my opinion we should have killed that psycho son-of-a-bitch
> Sadam ten years ago.
US remains as the only country to ever use nuclear weaponry against civilian
targets.
> It is an unfortunate reality for American soldiers that their
> sacrifices are rarely supported and almost never appreciated.
Wonder why...
> Irish Mike
>
> "Peter Lizak" <pli...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
>
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.030219...@pythagoras.math.uwaterloo.ca..
> .
> >
> > Wow, I never realized how arrogant some American's are.
> > You honestly have no idea why different parts of the world hate America?
> >
> > I think you should open your eyes.
> >
James L. Hankins
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:YV75a.564$se1.2...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com...
Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
>Our suspected terrorist aren't in jail for their words, but for their deeds.
I think you meant to say "convicted" instead of "suspected," or that you
meant to add a qualifier to "deeds."
^Halibut^
murder.
> Iraq has reason to believe that US is planning to attack Iraq. Does Iraq
> have a right to attack US before US attacks Iraq?
>
> > The US wants stability in the region because Saddam is a psychopath that
> has
> > the potential of destabilizing an entire region which supplies the
> majority
> > of the world petroleum.
>
> The UN wants stability in the region because George W. Bush is a
psychopath
> that has
> the potential of destabilizing an entire region which supplies the
majority
> of the world petroleum.
The US is simply trying to make the UN have a spine and enforce the UN
resolutions. Do you think Iraq has been cooperative? GW is a psychopath?
last time i checked he had not murdered any cabinet members or congressman
for not following his orders. He hasn't dropped any mustard gas on any U.S.
cities lately. And we have not invaded Canada or Mexico and looted, raped
and murdered their citizens.
Any war or attack can be prevented by Iraq's compliance with the existing UN
resolutions. Resolutions Iraq agreed to after the Gulf War. All they need
to do is disarm and account for the existing weapons that are now illegal
according to the UN resolutions. Iraq has consistenly and intentionally
avoided compliance at every opportunity since the Gulf War.
Yea right, we are the murdering bad guys in this fight.
Gary Carson
<Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote:
>If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up
and
>advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you
are
>Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right to
a
>trial?"
When I was 18 I had the freedom to choose -- got to prison, go to
canada, or go to war. If I'd have known Carter was going to pardon me
later I'd have gone to Canada.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Gary Carson
Some are locked up because they made bad choices in parents and
friends -- they aren't even accused of committing any "deeds"
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Craig Permenter
their words, but for their deeds".
I was making a comment made by the troll (or very ignorant person... or
both) that said that citizens of the USA don't have the right to free
speech.
We don't have the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre though.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
"Lone Locust of the Apocalypse" <zo...@ninthbit.com> wrote in message
news:Dla5a.1455$8Z5....@sea-read.news.verio.net...
Paul G.
news:20030220134240...@mb-ms.aol.com...
> This country has been lax too long in who it lets in and what they
> say and do.
Hi JD, remember me? Our country's security has been dismantled bit by bit
for decades. Leading the way all along, the ACLU and it's influential
members have protected the rights of subversives at all levels to continue
their steady attack on our country, mainly from within. We used to have an
HCUA and the FBI used to be able to keep tabs on subversives and local
police like the LAPD could also. In case you didn't know, like most
Americans don't, our law enforcement has had its hands tied and bound and no
one is really keeping tabs on anti-American subversives. They are not only
free to come across our open borders, but they are rampant in our own
government. And they are rampant in our universities also. Look at all the
old SDS/Weathermen-type pipebombing radicals that are not only not serving
prison sentences, they are actually holding jobs as professors in
universities. No wonder our youth is so screwed up.
You criticized me, I think, or ridiculed me, for my McCarthy-style rants.
But McCarthy was right. There WERE communists all throughout our government
and in Hollywood. There were no innocent people black-balled under
McCarthyism. The only person ruined under McCarthyism was McCarthy. I
think the image of what he was is slightly less hated than Hitler. However,
any objective person who does their homework knows that he was right. Since
the "break-up" of the USSR, the KGB paperwork that has come out of there has
proven it.
So I certainly agree that terrorist cells, etc., should be rounded up in
this country. But let's start arresting the ACLU and put them on trial for
the treason that they have committed. Can't do that? No, yur right. We
can't do that. Because the ACLU members are RUNNING THIS PLACE.
The ACLU was founded by people like Roger Baldwin, an anarchist, Norman
Thomas, the perenial Socialist Party candidate, and William Z Foster, the
head of Communist Party USA. Yes, that is the people that founded the ACLU.
Let me tell you people, the ACLU is a bigger threat to our freedom than Al
Queda. And yet they work under the guise of protecting our Constitution.
But it is just the opposite. They are working to destroy our Constitution
and our country. And if you don't know that I am 100% correct in this
assertion, then get outta the damn cardroom once in awhile and GO FIND OUT!
Do some homework.
-Paul G.
Gary Carson
wrote:
>what we just did. Rights have definitely been curtailed, in part
>because of the public's reaction to 9/11.
No, It was because of Bush's reaction, not the reaction of the
public.
>
>> > Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
>> > government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
>> > for president).
>>
>> ...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as
presidents?
>
>Er.. none because the majority of the country doesn't agree with
>them.
Is that why Nader wasn't allowed in the debates?
>>
>> You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you,
now you
>> call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been
learned.
>
>I was thinking this discussion was about events leading up to 9/11 so
it
>seems odd to use our behavior since as a justification for why we
suck.
>Anyway, the curtailing of rights is unfortunate but somewhat expected
>following such an attack.
Unfortunate? What are you, a communist?
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Gary Carson
wrote:
>Ah tosspot, you are typical of those who have never served a day or
heard a
>shot fired in anger. I always wonder what guys like you would say
if your
>own ass had ever been on the line (which, of course, it never will
Hey, fuckhead. I'm not just a war veteran. I'm a disabled war
veteran. And, I think you're wrong.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Paul G.
> > This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
> > world.
>
> Actually I think we do.
>
Free Speech does not grant you the right to yell Fire in a theater.
Our Constitution does not grant subversives the right to call for the
overthrow of our country. But that's the way it has been construed since
the ACLU-types have twisted it. Nevermind Al Queda for a moment. Groups
like the Progressive Labor Party, the Socialist Workers Party, Communist
Party USA, the Revolutionary Communist Party, are free to do their dirty
work right here in Los Angeles. Thanks to the ACLU-types.
There used to be laws against subversion. State laws. They were struck
down by the ACLU members on the federal Supreme Court.
Yep, we have the most liberal free speech laws in this country. Unless, of
course, you're trying to say a prayer in a public school.
-Paul G.
jw_steve
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:07:41 GMT, "jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >what we just did. Rights have definitely been curtailed, in part
> >because of the public's reaction to 9/11.
>
> No, It was because of Bush's reaction, not the reaction of the
> public.
We're probably not too far apart here Gary, but you must be living
in a cave if you don't think much of the country supports Bush.
Bush gets away with what he does because most people aren't
objecting. Do you really think it would be this easy if public
opinion wasn't with him?
> >
> >> > Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> >> > government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> >> > for president).
> >>
> >> ...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as
> presidents?
> >
> >Er.. none because the majority of the country doesn't agree with
> >them.
>
> Is that why Nader wasn't allowed in the debates?
>
And you think he would have gotten elected? I am with you
Nader should have been in the debates. That doesn't change
my point that he wasn't going to win.
>
>
>
> >>
> >> You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you,
> now you
> >> call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been
> learned.
> >
> >I was thinking this discussion was about events leading up to 9/11 so
> it
> >seems odd to use our behavior since as a justification for why we
> suck.
> >Anyway, the curtailing of rights is unfortunate but somewhat expected
> >following such an attack.
>
> Unfortunate? What are you, a communist?
More like a level headed moderate. Puts me at odds with most
people who seize onto the latest party tag line and run whether
its the jingoistic Americans or the flavor of the month Europeans
who've discovered how fashionable it is to criticize the U.S. I am
just looking for people that think for themselves. Unfortunately
they are few and far between.
>
>
> Gary Carson
> http://www.garycarson.com
Peg Smith
<pgennar...@pacbell.net> writes:
>...Let me tell you people, the ACLU is a bigger threat to our freedom than Al
>Queda. And yet they work under the guise of protecting our Constitution.
>But it is just the opposite. They are working to destroy our Constitution
>and our country. And if you don't know that I am 100% correct in this
>assertion, then get outta the damn cardroom once in awhile and GO FIND OUT!
>Do some homework.
I recommend, "In Defense Of American Liberties" by Samuel Walker.
Peg
Craig Permenter
"Gary Carson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message > Some
are locked up because they made bad choices in parents and
> friends -- they aren't even accused of committing any "deeds"
Well Gary, it's true that right now we don't really know who all is locked
up and why.
There was an Arab doctor from San Antonio that was picked up in the initial
sweep, but he was released after a couple of weeks and exonerated none the
worse for wear.
Several more were arrested today in Florida for connections to the PLO.
Supposedly they were funneling money to, and acting as liaisons between, the
civilized world for the suicide bombers.
Are we to assume that our people are so incompetent or vindictive that they
are actually holding hundreds of innocent Arabs in jail for no other reason
then they are Arab?
If that is the case then we are really in trouble.
I just have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel I have no other
choice. The stakes are too high. Many are rightly concerned about our loss
of civil liberties, but I have personally felt no loss of liberty, have you?
They have been suspended before with no apparent harm to the country.
Abraham Lincoln suspended them during the civil war.
Now I know...Abe was a friend of yours and GW is no Abe Lincoln :), but who
knew Abe was Abe while he was in office? Certainly not J. W. Booth. It takes
at least 20 years for a president to be out of office before his place in
history can accurately be measured.
I have a hard time telling the difference between all these terrorist
organizations. To me they are all simply different outfits of the same army.
If the 7th Calvary of the United States Army attacked North Korea today, do
you think they would be in the right to counterattack some other division or
brigade of the US army?
On another note, yesterday (or the day before?) we were talking about big
games and you brought up the motion detector going off in Ingleside.
I used to play in Tex's pot limit game on Mondays in Austin about 2 times a
month. Thankfully I was not there the night of the robbery. Do you know any
of the regulars there? Did you ever play there on Mondays?
We may have met and not even known it.
Ken M
Snip
>Yep, we have the most liberal free speech laws in this country. Unless, of
>course, you're trying to say a prayer in a public school.
>
>-Paul G.
You know Paul, I pay taxes and am required by law to send my kids to school.
I'm not thrilled at the idea of them having to say your prayers to your god.
You want prayers, do it on your own time and in your own place, not a place I
am required by law to support.
Gary Carson
<MR_PAP...@NOYAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>The US is simply trying to make the UN have a spine and enforce the
UN
>resolutions. Do you think Iraq has been cooperative? GW is a
psychopath?
>last time i checked he had not murdered any cabinet members or
congressman
>for not following his orders.
No, but he sure killed a lot of Texans.
He hasn't dropped any mustard gas on any U.S.
>cities lately. And we have not invaded Canada or Mexico and looted,
Well, we have troops on the Mexican border killing US citizens. Maybe
they're preparing an invasion.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Gary Carson
wrote:
>> No, It was because of Bush's reaction, not the reaction of the
>> public.
>
>We're probably not too far apart here Gary, but you must be living
>in a cave if you don't think much of the country supports Bush.
>Bush gets away with what he does because most people aren't
>objecting. Do you really think it would be this easy if public
>opinion wasn't with him?
Bush told us that we were in danger and only he could protect us.
Some people believed him, many people just shrugged their shoulders
and ignored it all.
I think I'm much more likely to be shot by some governement agent than
injured by a terroist. I'm know it's more likely if you include shot
or imprisoned.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Jdoo123
I agree with you that the ACLU is a bunch of worms that should be eradicated.
Gary Carson
<craigs...@tca.net> wrote:
>
>
>There was an Arab doctor from San Antonio that was picked up in the
initial
>sweep, but he was released after a couple of weeks and exonerated
none the
>worse for wear.
Ever been to jail? Two weeks in jail in not none the worse for wear.
>
>Are we to assume that our people are so incompetent or vindictive
that they
>are actually holding hundreds of innocent Arabs in jail for no other
reason
>then they are Arab?
We did it to American citizens of Japanese and German ancestory.
Well, the ancestory wasn't the only reason -- they also tended to own
property that some local politition coveted.
>
>If that is the case then we are really in trouble.
I think we're in serious trouble. Hell this isn't new though.
Remember the SLA? The LA cops shot up a house with so many bullets
that the house collapsed. The house was emply. But everybody said it
was okay because there might have been terrosists inside.
>
>I just have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I feel I have no
other
>choice. The stakes are too high.
Yep. Your freedom is at stake.
Many are rightly concerned about our loss
>of civil liberties, but I have personally felt no loss of liberty,
have you?
>They have been suspended before with no apparent harm to the country.
>Abraham Lincoln suspended them during the civil war.
Oh, yeah. Abe Lincoln only caused the Civil War. He did no harm to
the country.
>I have a hard time telling the difference between all these terrorist
>organizations. To me they are all simply different outfits of the
same army.
>If the 7th Calvary of the United States Army attacked North Korea
today, do
>you think they would be in the right to counterattack some other
division or
>brigade of the US army?
Of course not. They're gooks, they have no rights.
>On another note, yesterday (or the day before?) we were talking about
big
>games and you brought up the motion detector going off in Ingleside.
>
>I used to play in Tex's pot limit game on Mondays in Austin about 2
times a
>month. Thankfully I was not there the night of the robbery. Do you
know any
>of the regulars there? Did you ever play there on Mondays?
I don't think I ever played there.
>
>We may have met and not even known it.
Possible.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
>Many are rightly concerned about our loss of civil liberties, but
>I have personally felt no loss of liberty, have you?
No, I have not felt any loss either, but how is that relevant? I've
never been subjected to an unreasonable search or seizure either.
Does that mean we can get rid of the 4th Amendment?
"It's never happened to me" is not a persuasive tool in this context.
Peg Smith
<craigs...@tca.net> writes:
>...Are we to assume that our people are so incompetent or vindictive that they
>are actually holding hundreds of innocent Arabs in jail for no other reason
>then they are Arab?...
They did it to the Japanese in World War II, and nobody except the ACLU <cough>
much cared.
Peg
Gary Carson
wrote:
They also did it to Germans (many whose ancestery traced to the
Republic of Texas) in the Texas Hill Country during WWII.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
jw_steve
Don't forget Italians and a handful of Bulgarians.
jw steve
>
> Gary Carson
> http://www.garycarson.com
jw_steve
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:24:36 GMT, "jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >> No, It was because of Bush's reaction, not the reaction of the
> >> public.
> >
> >We're probably not too far apart here Gary, but you must be living
> >in a cave if you don't think much of the country supports Bush.
> >Bush gets away with what he does because most people aren't
> >objecting. Do you really think it would be this easy if public
> >opinion wasn't with him?
>
> Bush told us that we were in danger and only he could protect us.
> Some people believed him, many people just shrugged their shoulders
> and ignored it all.
More like when a country feels threatened support for the leader
goes up.
> I think I'm much more likely to be shot by some governement agent than
> injured by a terroist. I'm know it's more likely if you include shot
> or imprisoned.
Er.. okay. Not sure what this has to do with the general public's
approval of Bush. Even if we supposed that people are rational,
which probably isn't true, it would still be unclear that this is true
for most people and even if it was true, these events aren't
mutually exclusive. One could feel threatened by the gov't and
still support that same government in other endeavors. So again,
I am not sure what the point was other than the fact that you don't
like the government. If that's what you want to say, so be it.
But again, at no point was I talking about you.
jw steve
Craig Permenter
it's just that I like to see all viewpoints expressed.
Oh, and by the way, did any of those Germans or Japanese commit any acts of
"sabotage " during the war? Of course they didn't. They were incapable, even
if they were so inclined.
I am a DIRECT descendant of the neighbors of those people : ). My
ancestor's entered the country through Galveston but their mules got tired
before they made it all the way to the hill country. They were the neighbors
on all sides of my grandfathers farm in Yoakum, Texas.
I don't see that it hurt them in the long run. I don't remember any horror
stories from my childhood.
The greater good and all that.
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:GGc5a.36966$ma2.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Gary Carson
<craigs...@tca.net> wrote:
>I am a DIRECT descendant of the neighbors of those people : ).
It's the neighbors of those people who bought their property at tax
auctions while they were locked up.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Bad Bob
<craigs...@tca.net> wrote:
>Everyone makes a good point. I hope that I am not coming across as a Nazi,
>it's just that I like to see all viewpoints expressed.
>
>Oh, and by the way, did any of those Germans or Japanese commit any acts of
>"sabotage " during the war? Of course they didn't. They were incapable, even
>if they were so inclined.
>
>I am a DIRECT descendant of the neighbors of those people : ). My
>ancestor's entered the country through Galveston but their mules got tired
>before they made it all the way to the hill country. They were the neighbors
>on all sides of my grandfathers farm in Yoakum, Texas.
>
>I don't see that it hurt them in the long run. I don't remember any horror
>stories from my childhood.
>
>The greater good and all that.
>
If you don't want to come across as a Nazi Craig then perhaps you should
stop using the same arguments as they did for burning Jews, Gypsies, Slavs,
Poles and many other less desirable types (according to Mein Kampf). The
reason you don't remember any horror stories from your youth is because in
general people don't go around bragging about the shitty things they do (or
let others do) to people who have no ability to fight back.
The greater good in this country is served by one thing, and one thing
only. It is called the United States Constitution.
>>Oh, and by the way, did any of those Germans or Japanese commit any acts of
>>"sabotage " during the war? Of course they didn't. They were incapable, even
>>if they were so inclined.
If they did and were caught then they were punished under the law. But if I
rob a bank I sure as hell don't want my grandmother in Florida put in jail
because of that. If you don't see the error in your thinking then you
deserve the government that you get.
Bad Bob
wrote:
>
>
>There used to be laws against subversion. State laws. They were struck
>down by the ACLU members on the federal Supreme Court.
Yeah those were the same laws they used to jail all the veterans of WWI
camped out on the white house lawn to protest against the lack of health
care and other things the government was ignoring.
Same laws they used to beat poor negroes into submission in the south.
>
>Yep, we have the most liberal free speech laws in this country. Unless, of
>course, you're trying to say a prayer in a public school.
Bullshit Paul, you can say all the fucking prayers you want to in school.
You just aren't allowed to make the kid beside you join in.
>
>-Paul G.
>
I used to think you were funny Paul and a pretty decent guy. The more of
your crap I read, the more I just think you are pathetic...
Tosspot
WHAT! I think you need to look at the s* word.
Craig Permenter wrote:
> Our suspected terrorist aren't in jail for their words, but for their deeds.
<snip>
Tosspot
Abuse, the last resort of the incompetent. But still, you are saying
you're 3,000 are more important than some elses 3,000? OK, the bankers
and lawyers was a cheap shot, they were civilians, nothing more, nothing
less, same as everyone else civilians the US is killing.
So, because I haven't served that makes me an ungrateful twit? So, I
speak German, so what?
Irish Mike wrote:
> "No I haven't served,"
>
> Now there's a shock.
>
> "but it was only 3,000!"
>
> Well to Americans, the 3,000 innocent civilians, police officers and fire
> fighters killed in the WTC on 9/11 is not "only 3,000", and for you to say
> they deserved it because they were "bankers and lawyers" is disgusting. On
> the other hand, it's about what we expect from some European who has never
> had his own ass on the line. If it wasn't for the United States you'd be
> speaking German, you ungrateful twit.
>
> Irish Mike
--
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax
si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Tosspot
>>Subject: Re: OT By Joe (We Were Soldiers Once) Galloway
>
>
> I said:
>
>>This country has been lax too long in who it lets in and what they
>>
>>>say and do.
>>
>
>
>>Wooohooo...a live one!
>
>
> I think you are from the UK?How about we ship all of our suspected terrorists
> to London and turn them loose,would that make you feel better?I know your heart
> is just bleeding for them.
Well, assuming you are a US citizen, you're not. However, see previous
post on the subject, Europeans have far more experience with terrorism
than the US.
And how do we deal with them, fair trial.
Tosspot
> "Craig Permenter" <craigs...@tca.net> writes:
>
>>Our suspected terrorist aren't in jail for their words, but for their deeds.
>
>
> meant to add a qualifier to "deeds."
Good lad. Go to the top of the class!
Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
>No, Lone Locust, I meant to say, "Our suspected terrorist aren't in jail for
>their words, but for their deeds".
>
>both) that said that citizens of the USA don't have the right to free
>speech.
That's not where I was going with that.
If they are "suspected terrorists" then we don't know for sure that
they're the ones who did the deeds, do we?
DaveM
wrote:
>The US is simply trying to make the UN have a spine and enforce the UN
>resolutions.
Good for the US. So, after Iraq, Israel? Ho, ho, bleeding, ho.
DaveM
^Halibut^
> congressman
> >for not following his orders.
No, but he sure killed a lot of Texans.
He hasn't dropped any mustard gas on any U.S.
cities lately. And we have not invaded Canada or Mexico and looted,
Well, we have troops on the Mexican border killing US citizens. Maybe
they're preparing an invasion.
Gary Carson
> http://www.garycarson.com
And this relates to Iraq how? Hmmmm?
Paul G.
news:20030220172301...@mb-mj.aol.com...
> They did it to the Japanese in World War II, and nobody except the ACLU
<cough>
> much cared.
>
> Peg
Peg, do you smoke?
-paul g.
Paul G.
news:v5aj3pn...@corp.supernews.com...
> Many are rightly concerned about our loss
> of civil liberties, but I have personally felt no loss of liberty, have
you?
> They have been suspended before with no apparent harm to the country.
> Abraham Lincoln suspended them during the civil war.
>
>
Loss of liberty?
Ask a property owner about his liberty to do what he wants with his
property.
Ask a business owner about his liberty to hire who he wants and run his
business how he wants.
We've been losing our liberties for a long time. But the water in the pot
with the frog in it is getting warmer and warmer. It can only get so hot,
before we're cooked.
Funny how the Left thinks it is the champion of liberty and civil rights.
But at the core of all their "solutions" is a strengthening of government.
A strengthening of the very Big Brother that they think they are against.
When in reality, it is only a handful of conservatives that are really for
individual rights and civil liberties.
What is unfolding is the culmination of years and years of dismantling our
security and intelligence and at the same time helping build up our enemies.
Homeland Security is what they wanted in the first place. They've got
Homeland Security in Cuba. There are Block Captains. Neighbors spy on
neighbors. Children snitch on their parents. This is where we are headed.
This is an end run around our freedom. They've got to have a "reason" to
usher in dictatorial controls. To abolish our civil liberties. Normal
people do not want anarchy. People will trade their freedom for security.
The scoundrels that seek to abolish freedom in America know this full well.
And make no mistake about it. This is a multi-faceted attack on our
country, our culture, and our freedom.
The enemy is WITHIN.
-paul g.
Matu
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> kirjoitti viestissä
news:1I95a.36343$ma2.9...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Matu" <matu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b3380r$2oj$1...@plaza.suomi.net...
> >
> > "jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> kirjoitti viestissä
> > news:QC85a.30167$Mh3.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Tosspot" <Frank...@yahoo.tits.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3E551267...@yahoo.tits.com...
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > I don't. I have several American friends, and have been on chatting
> > > > terms with several GIs, and no, not all Americans are alike.
> > > >
> > > > If you really feel you have the right to free speech, try getting up
> and
> > > > advertising for the overthrow of your government. It'd be @Here you
> are
> > > > Son, a nice room", "Trial, what makes you think you have the right
to
> a
> > > > trial?"
> > >
> > > This is idiotic. We have the most liberal speech laws in the entire
> > > world.
> >
> > Just bullshit.
>
> That's not an argument.
sorry didn't feel like giving a long explanation why stating that USA has
the most liberal speech laws in the entire world is bullshit...
...since it really is irrelevant if you can be arrested for long times for
your political views or ethnic background.
> > > How you can possibly criticize us for that is beyond belief.
> >
> > You make it easy.
> > - laws on terrorism (how long can you hold someone suspected of being a
> > terrorist?)
> > - intelligence agencies that monitor citizens and all political activity
>
> These are vaild criticisms. I differentiate this from speech, however,
> these practices are widely criticized daily. It is also difficult to
> compare our situation with any country that didn't experience
> what we just did. Rights have definitely been curtailed, in part
> because of the public's reaction to 9/11.
9/11 doesn't justify any moves closer to totalitarism. One of the silly
reasons that wore given as reason why the evil arabs dislike you was your
personal freedom.
> > > Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> > > government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> > > for president).
> >
> > ...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as presidents?
>
> Er.. none because the majority of the country doesn't agree with
> them. The point is radicals have their say and can try to
> change the government through the proper channels. I am not sure
> what the point is.. are we supposed to allow every radical
> to have a go at running the government? The issue was the opportunity
> to voice displeasure with the handling of our affairs. 100K people
> did it a couple blocks from my house 3 days ago about 2 miles from
> the site that used to be the WTC. And we get criticized
> for our free speech?
The point was that even though variety of groups run a candidate for
president that is quite meaningless since a chance of them becoming elected
as...
...even if they had anything to say doesn't matter.
> > > The line is drawn between speech and a call for
> > > action and rightly so, unless you are actually suggesting that
> > > organizing a revolution that disregards the political process should
> > > be legal. Can't imagine anyone would really argue that.
> > > Anyway, the line has certainly been abused in the past (red scare,
> > > etc.) but lessons have been learned and we continue to evolve our
> > > free speech jurisprudence.
> >
> > You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you, now
you
> > call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been
learned.
>
> I was thinking this discussion was about events leading up to 9/11 so it
> seems odd to use our behavior since as a justification for why we suck.
> Anyway, the curtailing of rights is unfortunate but somewhat expected
> following such an attack. Anything going on now is still a far cry
> from what went on with the red scare, but you don't seem to really
> care about such issues.
Paul G. is still scared of red. Old propaganda sticks some minds.
> > > Of course the point remains, nobody
> > > else even comes close unless you have something more to say than
> > > blowing hot air.
> >
> > If you have something to say AND enough people or money behind you,
> > you might make a difference...
>
> As opposed to? Please tell me how in other countries a few people
> can make a difference? While your at it, how do these countries
> decide which out of the thousands and thousands of groups of few
> people get to make a difference? And aren't the other groups getting
> screwed. Point being, yeah you need enough people that seems pretty
> obvious. I don't really see any other way? Maybe you could enlighten
> me?
I would say that in some countries money has less power when choosing how to
share collective wealth and deciding on affairs that affect the whole
population.
> > Freedom for all,
> > possibilities for few.
> >
>
> Nice rhetoric, it almost helps fill in for the complete lack of
> original thought.
I'm sorry i'll do my best to be original the next time, if that don't work
i'll try delusional.
> -jw steve
>
>
Peg Smith
<pgennar...@pacbell.net> writes:
>> They did it to the Japanese in World War II, and nobody except the ACLU
><cough>
>> much cared.
>>
>> Peg
>
>
>
>Peg, do you smoke?
You're not trying, you can do better than that. I twice needle you about the
ACLU and don't get a treatise about communism, the UN or the CFR? Man, you just
ain't tryin'.
Peg
Paul G.
> Paul G. is still scared of red. Old propaganda sticks some minds.
>
Why r u bringing my name up mutherfucker? Yur not afraid of red? Then take
yur fucking ass over to Cuba or Vietnam and enjoy Paradise.
Yur the guy that was explaining in another post why the suicide bombers have
no choice but to resort to blowing up innocent Jewish people in a
restaurant. Ahh, I still say yur a fucking Nazi.
kindest regards,
-paul g.
jw_steve
>
> Abuse, the last resort of the incompetent.
Actually the last resort of the incompetent is to run
away when faced with facts. Shoe fit?
jw steve
jw_steve
<snip>
> 9/11 doesn't justify any moves closer to totalitarism.
Much of the public supports it, we have mechanisms in
place to change it if we don't. It's not really totalitarianism.
> One of the silly
> reasons that wore given as reason why the evil arabs dislike you was your
> personal freedom.
Yeah, and your buddy Tosspot talked out of his ass about something
he knew nothing about. What's your point?
<snip>
> The point was that even though variety of groups run a candidate for
> president that is quite meaningless since a chance of them becoming
elected
> as...
> ...even if they had anything to say doesn't matter.
You evince a clear misunderstanding of American politics. It's not
suprising. People have a voice, they might not be able to win but
they influence the stance of the majority parties through their
presence. If it was as simple as you say we'd never made any
inroads on civil rights. I'm sure you'll have some quip about that
issue that your heard yucking it up with your buddies, but we
do have mechanisms to empower people and it works to varying
degrees.
<snip>
> Paul G. is still scared of red. Old propaganda sticks some minds.
Again, what is your point? I'd hope you aren't taking the sampling
of netkooks as your basis for what the average American thinks.
Wouldn't be suprising though, seems easy for people to generalize
without thought in these situations.
<snip>
> I would say that in some countries money has less power when choosing how
to
> share collective wealth and deciding on affairs that affect the whole
> population.
So this is what it all boils down to, huh? Socialism vs. Capitalism.
I'd hoped there was more to it than that. Anyway, you can conjecture
all you want. I don't pretend to know what it's like to live in European
countries, but I also don't pretend to know our way is better.
I noticed Tosspot ran for the hills when I brought up your nutbag
totalitarian ban on unpopular speech. Who had input in deciding
those affairs?
> > > Freedom for all,
> > > possibilities for few.
> > >
> >
> > Nice rhetoric, it almost helps fill in for the complete lack of
> > original thought.
>
> I'm sorry i'll do my best to be original the next time, if that don't work
> i'll try delusional.
Don't sweat it. I don't expect original thought, I just hold out
to one day be pleasantly surprised.
jw steve
Paul G.
> >
> > Unfortunate? What are you, a communist?
>
> More like a level headed moderate. Puts me at odds with most
> people who seize onto the latest party tag line and run whether
> its the jingoistic Americans or the flavor of the month Europeans
> who've discovered how fashionable it is to criticize the U.S. I am
> just looking for people that think for themselves. Unfortunately
> they are few and far between.
>
>
THAT'S IT! I couldn't put my finger on it. But now I see. Steve's a
friggin communist. And I bet yur about in yur young 20s too. Gee, and so
level headed for such a young guy. You must have gone to private school or
sumthin. Am I close Steve? About 24 or so? You're about Tad Perry's age,
eh? At least Tad ain't a friggin communist. Oh, I know, he writes poetry
and shit. But it's about girls and love and stuff. Not about the staccato
of machinegun fire and the dictatorship of the proletariat and stuff.
-paul g.
Paul G.
"Bad Bob" <bad...@blueflintcat.us> wrote in message
news:i3ra5v4avourn0rku...@4ax.com...
>
> I used to think you were funny Paul and a pretty decent guy. The more of
> your crap I read, the more I just think you are pathetic...
>
Bob, you need to learn tolerance. Would you rent an apartment to my kind?
-paul g.
Paul G.
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >There used to be laws against subversion. State laws. They were struck
> >down by the ACLU members on the federal Supreme Court.
>
> Yeah those were the same laws they used to jail all the veterans of WWI
> camped out on the white house lawn to protest against the lack of health
> care and other things the government was ignoring.
> Same laws they used to beat poor negroes into submission in the south.
So what are you saying Bad Bob? You saying it should be legal to plot the
overthrow of our country? Cuz it is, y'know. It is legal to be a communist
in this country. Thanks to the ACLU. And you agree with that then, right?
You told me you were pro-SDS and Weathermen when you were younger Bob. So
was I. I was definitely farther to the Left than you were. I skipped the
drugs and brain damage part though. So that was a long time ago Bob. And
you ain't put 2 + 2 together yet?
Don't forget Bob, while you were getting stoned and partying with the SDS, I
was actually reading and studying their shit. I supported the Black
Panthers, the SDS, all the leftist causes. Been there done that. But I was
young. I've since figured it out. What the hell happened to you?
-paul g.
Paul G.
What size do you wear Steve?
-paul g.
Irish Mike
America. By his own admission he was a screw up when he served in the
military and he blames America for his problems. However, the amazing thing
about Carson is that although he hates the country, hates the government,
and hates the President he doesn't leave. Based on the way he bad-mouths
the United States you would think he would have left for one of those
Islamic paradises he seems to admire so much. BTW, the major reason the
American people support President Bush is that terrorists came into our
country and murdered 3000 civilians. It tends to piss us off.
Irish Mike
"jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:oIb5a.30314$Mh3.10...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Gary Carson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
> news:3e554202....@news.mindspring.com...
> > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:07:41 GMT, "jw_steve" <ssny...@nyc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >what we just did. Rights have definitely been curtailed, in part
> > >because of the public's reaction to 9/11.
> >
> > No, It was because of Bush's reaction, not the reaction of the
> > public.
>
> We're probably not too far apart here Gary, but you must be living
> in a cave if you don't think much of the country supports Bush.
> Bush gets away with what he does because most people aren't
> objecting. Do you really think it would be this easy if public
> opinion wasn't with him?
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > >> > Also, people regularly advocate a complete reorganization of the
> > >> > government (just look at some of the groups that run a candidate
> > >> > for president).
> > >>
> > >> ...and out of those candidates how many wo're elected as
> > presidents?
> > >
> > >Er.. none because the majority of the country doesn't agree with
> > >them.
> >
> > Is that why Nader wasn't allowed in the debates?
> >
>
> And you think he would have gotten elected? I am with you
> Nader should have been in the debates. That doesn't change
> my point that he wasn't going to win.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >>
> > >> You used to call everyone a communist that didn't agree with you,
> > now you
> > >> call them terrorists or terrorists supporters. Lessons have been
> > learned.
> > >
> > >I was thinking this discussion was about events leading up to 9/11 so
> > it
> > >seems odd to use our behavior since as a justification for why we
> > suck.
> > >Anyway, the curtailing of rights is unfortunate but somewhat expected
> > >following such an attack.
> >
> > Unfortunate? What are you, a communist?
>
> More like a level headed moderate. Puts me at odds with most
> people who seize onto the latest party tag line and run whether
> its the jingoistic Americans or the flavor of the month Europeans
> who've discovered how fashionable it is to criticize the U.S. I am
> just looking for people that think for themselves. Unfortunately
> they are few and far between.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Gary Carson
> > http://www.garycarson.com
>
>