A saga..... and a revelation
Mike Avery
Different people have different tolerances for change. Some people love change. Some are reluctant to put a new roll of toilet paper in the dispenser. Some, probably most of us, will change only if circumstances force us to.
For reasons that probably don't bear close examination, after we closed our bakery, we decided to sell breads at our local farmers market. (Actually, my wife and I just had a "but, I thought it was YOUR idea" conversation.) We were determined enough that we helped reoranize the market after last year's organizers left town. And, in a moment of weakness, wound up being the director of the market.
I found a bakery I could use, and work began. However, last week, the first week of the market and the first week we used the bakery, the mixer at the bakery died. The owner, who only does sweet things, had just bought the used mixer and had mixed feelings about it. It was still under warranty, and she felt that now was the time to show up its weak points. I felt better when I learned she felt that way.
All week long, the dealer kept saying, "tomorrow you'll see the repair guy and it'll work again!" Friday, he finally showed up. He looked at the mixer, cursed, and put it in his truck saying he had to take it back to the shop.
This left me with 5 batches of bread ranging from 12 to 20 1.5 lb loaves to make and no mixer.
And a sense of dread. I have made lots of bread by hand, but not that much. We're talking about 125 pounds of dough. How the heck will I knead that much dough by hand? Should I blow off going to the market? On the other hand, I have a bucket of sourdough starter and a bucket of poolish that will need to be used or thrown away, and if I don't go to the market, I won't make any money.
In the end, I sent a "what do I do now? Please give me advide or commiseration" note to the Bread Baker's Guild of America mailing list. (As a side note, if you are a serious baker, you are elgible to join. The rates are reasonable, and the mailing list is just awesome. Look at http://www.bbga.org/)
A few people commiserated, some said they'd help if they weren't 1/2 way across the country. Two gave me good advice. And then I got an email that may well change my life.
Craig Ponsford sent me a note saying, "Call me at 555-1212" Craig is a baker's baker. He is also very generous to the bakery community. He's the president of the Bread Baker's Guild of America, he owns a very successful bakery in Sonoma, California, and he was on, and then coached, the American teams that won the
Coupe du Monde de la Boulangerie. His bakery has the http://www.artisanbakers.com web site, and there's lots of good information there. Getting that message from him is sorta like an amateur physicist getting an email from Steven Hawking saying, "please call".
Lucky for me, he is kind, generous, and a wonderful person, so I felt at ease talking to him seconds into our phone call.
"Mike, when I teach classes, I teach students to not knead. You don't need to knead. If we weren't doing thousands of pounds of dough a day, I wouldn't own a mixer, or knead dough. If you give up kneading, your breads will only get better!"
At this point I was conflicted. When I was growing up, my mother made all our bread. She kneaded. When I learned to bake in the late 1970's, I kneaded. When we opened a bakery, we got a big mixer to knead our dough. Sure, Craig knows what he's talking about... but is he giving me the straight skinny, or is he shitting me? On the other hand, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I want to be at the market, and I want to sell bread there. And better bread sounds pretty cool.
He asks about my dough hydration, and I tell him it ranges from 55 to about 75%. He comments he likes wetter doughs better, and he routinely makes 95% hydration doughs. (A side note to WSCJohn - you are no longer the "King of Glop", you may select between "Ambassador of Glop" and "Crowned Prince of Glop" as your new title.) But, Craig assures me, this technique will work with the doughs I'm talking about.
Craig further asked me how much flour was in the starters as a percent of the recipe. I think he was impressed that I knew, and that I was using about 30% in poolish based recipes and around 25% in levain/sourdough based recipes.
He then asked how long my bulk fermentations were. I told him between 3 and 6 hours, depending on the bread. He again made approving noises.
Then he told me what I needed to do.... Here is, roughly, what Craig told me. Roughly mix the ingreadients, make sure all the flour is moistened. If you are using a poolish, don't worry that it hasn't been incorporated into the dough. It's OK if its a slimy mess with strands of unincorporated poolish in it.
Put the roughly mixed dough into containers and let them sit 45 minutes. Then dump out the dough onto a work table. Spread the dough out until its a rectangle about 3" thick. Then fold in the edges of the bread - top and bottom, left and wsummer.
Mike Avery
> Some of the background of this note will be familiar to some readers
> of this note, but I'm including it because I'm sending this to several
> mailing lists.
Oops... I'd planned on saving that and sending it tomorrow after I
finished it. I guess the next part will be sent as "part 2".
Sorry,
Mike
Dave Bell
You should write for TV series...
Mike Avery
Mike Avery
>
> Put the roughly mixed dough into containers and let them sit 45
> minutes. Then dump out the dough onto a work table. Spread the dough
> out until its a rectangle about 3" thick. Then fold in the edges of
> the bread - top and bottom, left and wsummer.
Which is what told me it was time to rest. I was typoing badly....
Confirmation was found when I sent the message instead of saving it as a
draft.....
Of course, the text should have read,
Put the roughly mixed dough into containers and let them sit 45
minutes. Then dump out the dough onto a work table. Spread the dough
out until its a rectangle about 3" thick. Then fold in the edges of the
bread - top and bottom, left and bottom.
And now on to the next, and semi-final, installment in the saga.
Craig told me that there are three powerful dough strenghening
mechanisms at work. Simple hydration, or getting the flour wet.
Fermentation, which is the yeast producing gas which stretches the
dough, and then the fold.
Once the dough is folded, put it back into the fermenting vessel, and
let it rest another 45 minutes. Repeat the fold. Put it back into the
vessel.
45 minutes later, he told me to give it a final fold, and then to let it
rise again.
Each time you do this, the dough will get better. After the second
fold, it will be as good as what you get out of your mixer, the third
time will be much better than that.
Once the dough has risen again, its time to scale and form it.
I was skeptical, but his approach had a few things going for it. I
could handle it physically without a mixer and without dying in the
process. It offered me a chance to deliver bread to the market. It
promised my bread would be better than ever before.
So, I did it.
I made 5 batches of bread. My sourdough flax seed bread, my sourdough
olive bread, my Black Canyon Sourdough (similar to San Francisco
Sourdough, but made here instead of there), my light wheat - a poolish
based half wheat half white flour bread, and my sourdough raisin bread.
He had told me that if I had seeds or nuts or other stuff in the dough,
I should add it at the start. And since the dough development would be
largely through chemical action rather than the physical action of a
mixer, that made sense. When a mixer is used, the seeds can cut the
gluten as fast as its being developed.
So, I started mixing. After the first 45 minutes, some of the doughs
hadn't risen at all, but I went ahead with the process anyway. The
doughs didn't look very impressive after the first 45 minutes. They
looked really nice after the second 45 minutes, and all of them had
risen at least some, and most had doubled in size. I toyed with not
giving them the next fold and decided, no, I needed to stick with the
program.
After the third 45 minutes, all of them were rising nicely and were very
well developed. Truly, some of the nicest doughs I'd ever made. The
flax seed bread, the olive bread, and the raisin bread all had their
extra ingredients more evenly distributed than ever before, probably
since they were in the bread from the very onset of
mixing. Also, when I had added raisins too early in the mix in the
past, the mixer tended to turn them to mush and they'd vanish vanish.
These stayed together and were identifiable as raisins.
The 20 loaf batches were in two 5-gallon buckets each, the 12 loaf
batches were in single buckets. Oddly enough, over the course of the
evening, all the doughs wound up getting folded one right after another.
Folding two buckets of dough didn't take very long, and the initial
mixing was pretty easy.
After the doughs rose, I scaled them and formed all of them, except for
the raisin bread, into boules. Next time, I'll do some batards as
well. The raisin bread's dough was rolled out, brushed with butter,
sprinkled with brown sugar and cinnamon, rolled and put into bread
pans. Usually this bread took 12 hours to complete its last rise. This
time, it took less than 3 hours.
I baked the olive loaf and flax seed bread first. Despite good rises, I
also got great oven spring in the boules I had made. I had an
mini-olive loaf I'd made with excess dough and liked it a lot, and the
customers were raving. The flax seed was better risen than usually, and
the seeds were very nicely distributed.
Then the owner of the bakery I was renting walked in and needed the
ovens for her market offerings, so the rest of the dough sat around the
bakery, over proofing. I couldn't complain, after all, she had told me
she needed the bakery at 6:00 AM, and I was the one who was running
late. Two hours later, baking resumed.
The doughs were, by this point, overrisen. I didn't have much hope that
they could be salvaged. Some of the doughs were beyond hope, but most
of them made decent breads. To me, this was a real tribute to the new
bread making techniques. The raisin was exceptional, despite being held
too long, as was the Black Canyon Sourdough. I had made the Black
Canyon Sourdough with a starter that is usually on the milder side.
This time it was nicely assertive. I don't know why. The longer final
rise? The phase of the moon?
Between starting late, losing some time in the evening (today's word of
the day is "Mis en place"
http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/mis_en_place.htm), and losing two hours
in the morning, the last of the breads were coolk about the time the
market ended.
Later, I was talking to Lynn, the owner of the bakery and told her I
don't care if she gets a mixer back because I won't be using it. She
was stunned.
As Craig said, it was no harder than using a mixer, the results were
better, and it seemed to take less time overall.
I am just amazed and really excited about the no-knead/fold approach.
I did notice that the higher hydration breads were easier to mix and
rose better. No surprise there, I've know that for years, but I haven't
been able to handle wetter doughs. As a result, I'm bumping the
hydration on my breads by 10% per seek until I've gone too far. (I'll
just bump the Challah and Raisin Bread 5% per week. The raisin is a
challah base, and too wet a challah could be a problem.)
The sales at the market weren't quite where we wanted them. In addition
to the breads, I used Lynn's KitchenAid to make some Kolaches. Sadly,
too few people had seen Kolaches, so most of them came home with us.
The breads came out late, so that also cut into sales.
However, ALL the merchants at the market said sales were down. The city
had a big parade that passed by the market, but the crowds who came
downtown weren't interested in buying. They milled through, ate
samples, and left.
The next installment will be next Monday when I've had a chance to
repeat the experiment with wetter doughs.
Thanks again to Craig,
Mike
Dick Adams
"Mike Avery" is publishing sequential chapters.
Why not link some photos so we can decide whether it may
be worth while to read all that prose?
So far it seems that you, Mike Avery, are not so interested to
see bread rise well as I am, and that you are not so avid
a fan of the big holes as some are. But maybe you are about
to change?
These old eyes read slowly, but still see pictures pretty quick?
So could you kindly oblige with graphics?
Thanks.
--
Dicky
Mike Avery
>Why not link some photos so we can decide whether it may
>be worth while to read all that prose?
>
>
Well, the first loaves are all sold. And probably eaten. The later
loaves weren't as nice as the first because they had over risen, so
there's no point in photographing them. Also, I didn't have a camera at
the bakery. So, it ain't happening. At least, not this week.
>So far it seems that you, Mike Avery, are not so interested to
>see bread rise well as I am, and that you are not so avid
>a fan of the big holes as some are. But maybe you are about
>to change?
>
>
"Rise well" is a rather vague term. I prefer my bread to be something I
can sink my teeth into, something I need to chew. Not to be cotton
candy. I think my bread has always been well risen. Whether or not
that meets your definition.
>These old eyes read slowly, but still see pictures pretty quick?
>So could you kindly oblige with graphics?
>
>
Maybe next week.
Mike
Dusty Bleher
I've clipped it, and will be studying your methods...(:-o)!
Thanks again,
Dusty
"Mike Avery" <mav...@mail.otherwhen.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.8.1121698491.1...@mail.otherwhen.com...
> Last time, I finished with these words....
...
Ed Bechtel
Mike,
Thanks for relating the experience. Great narrative.
I have a bowl of starter being activated just to try this technique
out.
Using stretch and folds during a normal rise (following a regular
kneading cycle), I notice the dough gets very fluffy which seems
desireable. It will be interesting to see what happens with only the
pre-mix and no kneading.
Good post.
Ed Bechtel
dan w
> The next installment will be next Monday when I've had a chance to
> repeat the experiment with wetter doughs.
>
> Thanks again to Craig,
> Mike
>
i agree with Ed... great story. was starting my bread this morning, and
decided to try the method related to you by the BBHMM (big bread high
mucky muck). the texture and taste were amazing. tomorrow i am going
to do another loaf and even take pics-(just for you Dick :))
thanks for taking the time to relate it to the group.
Dan w
dan w
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1401116
i stored the folded dough in the bowl above (pic 2), with oiled plastic
wrap on top of dough. i removed 1C bf from my usual 5C recipe, to
increase the hydration level. found dough difficult to work with. made
one batard and on in bread pan. not much oven spring, although i
believe it was at max proof when i put in oven. i also ran out of
parchment paper and when i put in batard to (hot)oven, it deflated some.
taste and texture were very good, some of the best i have made to
date. our days are hot here, and my kitchen is about 75º, so may be
having an effect on proof times. going to add 1/2C bf to this next
time, to see if it will bring better shaping and handling.
happy baking
Dan w
Felix Karpfen
(<mailman.8.1121698491.1...@mail.otherwhen.com>):
> The next installment will be next Monday when I've had a chance to
> repeat the experiment with wetter doughs.
>
Comments from a geriatric Johnny-come-lately home baker:
The missing information in this eye-opening saga (from my point of
view) is the ambient temperature.
Given that our indoor (uncontrolled) room temperatures can be anywhere
between 55°F (winter) and 85°F (summer), some additional information
would be welcome.
Felix Karpfen
--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)
Mike Avery
It was around 78F.
Mike
Ed Bechtel
I tried the technique you described by basically doing 3 flatten and
folds with no prior kneading.
Impressive. I would be hard pressed to tell these loaves from other
ones I bake using 5 to 10 minutes of hardy kneading. Remarkably, the
final bread was SOFT. Very delicate. I really like these loaves.
I used Bahrain starter that Slim Langer gave me (Thanks Slim!!)
Photos are at this link including a crumb scan. (on the way to a meeing
this morning, I dropped a slice of bread on a coworker's desk with a
post-it "please scan" but forget to ask him to brush the cornmeal away.
He did better job than I would have done and then said "good bread",
but this is the guy that after eating Kalamata olive bread made the
comment "I didn't care much for the raisens":
Dusty Bleher
I transcribed Mike's post, shortened it, and posted it here:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Breads/Sourdough/Techniques/noknead.htm
Given that we're moving into an RV, being able to make my SD--and not having
to drag along a mixer--is quite high on my list of "things to do...".
Thanks, Mike, for posting your adventures. I only hope that I've faithfully
presented what you'd posted...
Dusty
"Ed Bechtel" <smoke...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1121923757....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Mike,
>
> I tried the technique you described by basically doing 3 flatten and
> folds with no prior kneading.
> Impressive. I would be hard pressed to tell these loaves from other
> ones I bake using 5 to 10 minutes of hardy kneading. Remarkably, the
> final bread was SOFT. Very delicate. I really like these loaves.
...
Mike Avery
>Hey! You got the jump on me, Ed. (well done!)
>
>I transcribed Mike's post, shortened it, and posted it here:
>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Breads/Sourdough/Techniques/noknead.htm
>
>
Comments on your edits....
Craig shoots for 95% hydration on some breads, not all. The technique
has worked with doughs as high as 95% hydration and as low as 55%.
The 3" thick was based on a 35 pound blob of dough being removed from a
5 gallon bucket. It started out about a foot thick, so spread it until
its around 1/4 its original thickness.
When you put the folded dough back into the rising container, do so with
the fold side down.
It wasn't the fluff you removed, it was the color and spirit.....
The number of folds depend upon the dough. Some are fine with two
folds, some need five. Craig was trying to get me past a hurdle, namely
5 batches of bread by morning.
Mike
Dick Adams
"Mike Avery" <mav...@mail.otherwhen.com> wrote in message news:mailman.5.1121966492.3...@mail.otherwhen.com...
> The technique (stretch and fold) has worked with doughs as
> high as 95% hydration and as low as 55%.
It seems to me that stretching and folding 55%-hydration dough
would come pretty close to conventional kneading.
At 95%, it might seem like ghouls luxuriating in graveyard slime.
Slim Langer
> I would be hard pressed to tell these loaves from other
> ones I bake using 5 to 10 minutes of hardy kneading. Remarkably, the
> final bread was SOFT. Very delicate. I really like these loaves.
>
> I used Bahrain starter that Slim Langer gave me (Thanks Slim!!)
>
You're welcome Ed. I like the Acme SF culture you sent to me & those
are some nice looking loaves you've baked! <G>
Slim
Dusty Bleher
news:mailman.5.1121966492.3...@mail.otherwhen.com...
> Comments on your edits....
>
> Craig shoots for 95% hydration on some breads, not all. The technique has
> worked with doughs as high as 95% hydration and as low as 55%.
recipe originally had...
> The 3" thick was based on a 35 pound blob of dough being removed from a 5
> gallon bucket. It started out about a foot thick, so spread it until its
> around 1/4 its original thickness.
Hmmmm. Now that's gonna be harder to quantify...(:-o)!
> When you put the folded dough back into the rising container, do so with
> the fold side down.
Noted. Tnx.
> It wasn't the fluff you removed, it was the color and spirit.....
Awwww.... I want folks to try this method. It wuz just that I thought
4-pages was a bit too intimidating for most folks. I was shooting for short
and to the point (something I have real difficulty doing (:-o)!).
> The number of folds depend upon the dough. Some are fine with two folds,
> some need five. Craig was trying to get me past a hurdle, namely
Any handy guide or ROT (Rule Of Thumb) that one should use to determine how
many foldings are needed?
Finally, in general, this "new" method seems to make sense...especially in
light of WCSJohn's S&F technique when applied to very high hydration dough's
like Coccodrillo. I've never been able to figure out just how it does what
it does, but I darn sure know that it gets some mighty fine results.
L8r all,
Dusty
...