Gyokuro Asahi
Square Peg
determine the optimum brewing parameters. I made a couple of pots that
were too strong or too bitter for me. I would like to know which of
the brewing parameters (water term, amount of leaf, steep time) to
change first.
BTW: I have a hard time telling whether the taste that I don't like is
bitterness or too much tea. Can anyone help with this?
The Holy Mountain package only says "use spring water at well below
boiling".
The Holy Mountain website provides minimal assistance. It's about a
2-day project to even find a particular tea. The website is a jumbled,
disorganized mess -- a lot like an unsorted dictionary, just fewer
entries, thankfully. The best I could get is 1-3 minutes, well below
boiling. Zero information about how much leaf to use.
I turned to two websites that are much better organized and generally
have good brewing suggestions.
One is Tea Time: http://www.tea-time.com/.
They recommend brewing their Gyokuro Asahi at 2g/cup (6 oz) for 3
minutes at 176-185F.
http://www.tea-time.com/prodView.asp?idProduct=95&idCat=
This is not their tea, but those parameters (I used 180F) resulted in
a tea that was either too strong or too bitter for me.
My other source for brewing instructions is Tea Gschwendner (shouldn't
that be Geschwendner?):
http://www.teamerchants.com/Catalog/Default.aspx
They don't have a Gyokuro Asahi. They do have three Gyokuro teas.
http://www.teamerchants.com/Catalog/SearchResultsView.aspx?SearchTerm=gyokuro
They all call for 3g/8oz (2.25g/6oz) and 1.5-2 minutes at 140-150F.
That's a little more tea, but a much lower temperature and some
shorter times.
So, what should I vary first? Steep time? Amount of leaf? Or water
temperature?
TokyoB
>
> They all call for 3g/8oz (2.25g/6oz) and 1.5-2 minutes at 140-150F.
> That's a little more tea, but a much lower temperature and some
> shorter times.
>
> So, what should I vary first? Steep time? Amount of leaf? Or water
> temperature?
Square Peg,
First, the water should definitely be cooler - 140F or so sounds
good. Both of those sites seem to recommend what I think is a fairly
low ratio of leaf to water. Here's the brewing recommendation for
Gyokuro from Hibika-An ( I just ordered some gyokuro from them -
should arrive this week hopefully.) I've found that there is a bigger
dispersion of recommendations for Gyokuro than for other teas. Good
luck in your brewing experiments.
* Gyokuro or Gyokuro Karigane (2 cups)
o Tea leaves: 1 1/2 tablespoons (7 - 8g)
o Water temperature: 140 - 158F (60 - 70C)
o Amount of water: 200cc.
o Waiting time: 2min.
o Gyokuro's best features are its sweetness and mellow
aroma. It is better to brew with low temperature water to enhance the
sweetness and avoid any bitter taste.
http://www.hibiki-an.com/readings/how-to-enjoy-green-tea.html
Square Peg
Wow. That works out to 6.2-7.1g/6 oz, about triple what I was using.
> o Water temperature: 140 - 158F (60 - 70C)
> o Amount of water: 200cc.
> o Waiting time: 2min.
> o Gyokuro's best features are its sweetness and mellow
>aroma. It is better to brew with low temperature water to enhance the
>sweetness and avoid any bitter taste.
>
>http://www.hibiki-an.com/readings/how-to-enjoy-green-tea.html
Interesting site.
I'll try a pot with a lot more tea and a short steep time.
Space Cowboy
Japanese teas one sees in the stores versus exclusive websites. The
ones I see in the stores are various Japanese export companies with
various Japanese types. I can get everything from matcha to bancha
and every select grade ever mentioned here. I know one thing both
have in common not cheap. You probably see these brands on the
shelves in Japan. I just havent got around to ordering from the
websites to compare. As far as the Chinese teas what I find on the
shelves is close enough to what I get from the websites so what I am
really paying for is Palins elitism har har.
Jim
PS I did my commoner stump in the mines. It is very relaxing because
you dont have to parse too much.
TokyoB wrote:
> On Oct 7, 7:22?pm, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
> > I was given a bag of Gyokuro Asahi from Holy Mountain.
...I wished someone would give me some better than average tea...
Square Peg
<nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>This is OT but Id like to know what people think of the export
>Japanese teas one sees in the stores versus exclusive websites. The
>ones I see in the stores are various Japanese export companies with
>various Japanese types. I can get everything from matcha to bancha
>and every select grade ever mentioned here. I know one thing both
>have in common not cheap. You probably see these brands on the
>shelves in Japan. I just havent got around to ordering from the
>websites to compare. As far as the Chinese teas what I find on the
>shelves is close enough to what I get from the websites so what I am
>really paying for is Palins elitism har har.
>
>Jim
>
>PS I did my commoner stump in the mines. It is very relaxing because
>you dont have to parse too much.
>
>TokyoB wrote:
>> On Oct 7, 7:22?pm, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
>> > I was given a bag of Gyokuro Asahi from Holy Mountain.
>...I wished someone would give me some better than average tea...
In my opinion, Holy Mountain is just average. I have had better luck
with Tea Time and Upton.
I was actually given a gift certificate. I bought
Fanciest Jasmine (Moli Huacha), 1/4 pound, $5.00
1st Grade Pu-erh Tuocha "Camel Breath", 1/4 pound, $12.00
Wakamidori Sencha, 1/4 pound, $27.00
Tangerine Fermented Pu-erh, 1, $5.00
Organic Clouds of Green, 1/4 pound, $15.00
1st Grade Gyokuro Asahi (Pearl Dew), 1/4 pound, $22.00
Yin Hao, 1/4 pound, $8.00
I did not like the Moli Huacha at all, but then I probably don't like
jasmine and it was very strong in this tea.
The pu-erh was OK. My first time with pu-erh. I'm probably not a
pu-erh person.
The sencha and the organic clouds of green were the best. I had
trouble getting the right brewing parameters, but this may be just my
inexperience. The HM teas come with little or no instructions, which
probably contributed to me overall dissatisfaction.
The Yin Hao was interesting. There was one pot that was very good. I
thought I recorded the parameters correctly, but I was never able to
replicate it. Most were too strong or bitter.
Dominic T.
At $22 for a 1/4 pound I wouldn't expect much if it is even close to
real Gyokuro at all. I tend to see "Gyokuro Asahi" at all of the low
end coffee roasters who also sell tea. I believe they all buy from
Metropolitan Tea co. (Mlesna) and it is all low to low-mid grade stuff
waaaay overpriced for what it is. I know you are just starting out and
quite eager, but you really should take your time and grow a bit
slower in your pursuit. You will find the answers to your questions
intuitively and naturally rather than this haphazard method currently
being undertaken.
There are no "parameters" to tea and while many of us are scientific
minded tea is one area best to let that go with. Everyone takes their
own journey though, and you are free to brazenly hack through the
jungle to blaze your own path... I just hope to point out that there
is a nice existing pathway steeped in history, tradition, and study
with much nicer views.
FWIW,
- Dominic
Dominic T.
> This is OT but Id like to know what people think of the export
> Japanese teas one sees in the stores versus exclusive websites. The
> ones I see in the stores are various Japanese export companies with
> various Japanese types. I can get everything from matcha to bancha
> and every select grade ever mentioned here. I know one thing both
> have in common not cheap. You probably see these brands on the
> shelves in Japan. I just havent got around to ordering from the
> websites to compare. As far as the Chinese teas what I find on the
> shelves is close enough to what I get from the websites so what I am
> really paying for is Palins elitism har har.
>
> Jim
>
> PS I did my commoner stump in the mines. It is very relaxing because
> you dont have to parse too much.
I'd say that if you are buying any Japanese tea that is not of a very
high quality (and unfortunately a high cost) then you are better off
with these pre-packaged exports. They are often cheaper, and well
sealed so they retain some freshness, and most are passable. I have
*never* had one that surprised me and brewed up to a quality Japanese
green though, so don't expect to find a diamond in the rough.
Yamamotoyama actually makes very good teabags which I'd stack up to
most low-mid grade loose greens and I highly enjoy for the "kelpy"
quality of their sencha.
Japanese greens are an anomaly in tea, and as much as it pains me, it
is just too delicate and demanding to treat like other teas in every
part of its life cycle from growth to harvest to store to cup.
Frugality has to take a back seat to explore properly, which is hard
for me too ;)
- Dominic
/I read all of the news doggoneit, dontcha know?
Square Peg
Haphazard? I brew a pot making a careful record of the "parameters". I
then vary one or more "parameters" and compare the results. That, to
me, seems the antithesis of haphazard. Please explain.
>There are no "parameters" to tea and while many of us are scientific
>minded tea is one area best to let that go with. Everyone takes their
>own journey though, and you are free to brazenly hack through the
>jungle to blaze your own path... I just hope to point out that there
>is a nice existing pathway steeped in history, tradition, and study
>with much nicer views.
Hmmm... So everyone takes their own path, but if mine involves
"parameters" (horrors!), then I am brazenly hacking through the
jungle?
Can you explain to me what this "nice existing pathway" is and how I
seem to have fallen off into the jungle? I'm not being sarcastic. If
there is a better way, I'd like to know about it.
But it is hard to hear when my methodical approach is denigrated.
Stefan Schenk
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
> <dominic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I know you are just starting out and
>>quite eager, but you really should take your time and grow a bit
>>slower in your pursuit. You will find the answers to your questions
>>intuitively and naturally rather than this haphazard method currently
>>being undertaken.
>
> Haphazard? I brew a pot making a careful record of the "parameters". I
> then vary one or more "parameters" and compare the results. That, to
> me, seems the antithesis of haphazard. Please explain.
Well, somehow it is haphazard and somehow it is not. You seem to take a
scientific kind of view, you take a sample and scan through the
parameter space and then you 'measure' the result. However there are
two flaws in this procedure. Firstly this procedure is just cold,
technical, which is something i don't want to associate with tea. And
the second point is that you cannot scientifically measure the taste of
tea. It is quite subjective, so the procedure contradicts itself
somewhat.
There is really much more needed for a good tea than just the correct
amount of tea, steeping temperature, ... I mean they are important but
they should not dominate your tea experience. Enjoying tea also
requires the right frame of mind. If you are occupied with something,
if you're focusing too much, if think too much about doing it
correctly, you will never enjoy the tea as much as if you just enjoy.
>>There are no "parameters" to tea and while many of us are scientific
>>minded tea is one area best to let that go with. Everyone takes their
>>own journey though, and you are free to brazenly hack through the
>>jungle to blaze your own path... I just hope to point out that there
>>is a nice existing pathway steeped in history, tradition, and study
>>with much nicer views.
>
> Hmmm... So everyone takes their own path, but if mine involves
> "parameters" (horrors!), then I am brazenly hacking through the
> jungle?
> Can you explain to me what this "nice existing pathway" is and how I
> seem to have fallen off into the jungle? I'm not being sarcastic. If
> there is a better way, I'd like to know about it.
To me it seems that you are not taking your own path but are hacking
away in all directions and searching for a paved way.
I know this may be not satisfactory, because it is not a clear
procedure, but as Dominic said slow down. Enjoy your tea, enjoy the
preparation of the tea and don't focus too much on the technical side.
To stay with the analogy, look at the jungle, enjoy the view and
eventually you will find a way. Follow it. At some times it may be
necessary to hack a little bit but then you probably know where and
when to hack.
I don't know if this is the pathway Dominic mentioned and i apologize if
i am not of much help or you feel offended. My tea experience is
limited to only three years of stumbling, but that way i managed to get
one or two perfect moments.
Stefan
Space Cowboy
Jasmine flavor. I buy mine in 500g tins. Ive made sure I am stocked
for life. I consider it an honest tea ie you dont have to fuss around
to make it. All the brewing aint going to change the taste very
much. It is spring bud. There is no guarantee it is consistent
through and through. Add more than you think. It goes down heavy.
You may have to dump the first infusion to get something milder. I
like bold lip smaking Chinese greens. I notice if I suck in a leaf it
seems leathery. When Im breaking in a new tea I drink it exclusively
for about a week. I dont like the potpourri approach. It took me
about a decade to appreciate green teas perse versus the readily
available oolongs and blacks ie I had to unlearn some expectations.
Fermented teas like Puer are a special case. There are teas I only
drink on a rainy day or to determine how sick I am.
Jim
PS I wished someone would give me a $100 gift certificate for tea. I
noticed over the years how different green tea looks infused. I
should start a collection like butterflies.
Square Peg wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 05:40:20 -0700 (PDT), Space Cowboy
> <nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
...i bore me not you...
Dominic T.
I think Stefan did a very good job of offering a similar but different
view which ultimately reaches the same point I was making. Look, I'm
not here to chastise you... we are all here to help. Honestly, even if
it may not be what you want to hear or believe. We can all see your
myriad posts and they all read identically. A new tea, a desire for
scientific approach, a frantic flailing within "parameters," sometimes
an acceptable result sometimes not. There is so much more to tea that
you are sadly missing that we are more interested in helping you find
the real story, the joy, the mindfulness, the history, the farmers,
the process, the tradition... among many other factors. It's actually
painful to me, and I'm sure others, to watch. So naturally we want you
to realize there is more there than meets the eye, and we can see you
have an interest, which are positives and in no way negative as you
may feel.
Tea is not meant to be scientific, in fact many original scholars
speak out against such an approach. When most of us speak of scales,
thermometers, and stop watches it is usually only as a way to quantify
what we do so that it may be more easily shared in an impersonal
medium like Usenet. It is also good every now and then for
establishing a baseline to then work from unscientifically or to check
your work every now and then... but those tools are not a very large
part of most of our experiences 99% of the time - if ever.
There are too many variables to quantify anything with tea and I guess
the part that pains me the most is I guess (and not meant badly) a
foolish view to think anyone could. Again when you go back to history
it was not handled in this manner, and is not meant to. With Puerh
many texts speak of how many "breaths" for steeping times. That is
where you should begin. It makes it personal, it allows the focus and
mindfulness to be on the tea, "the agony of the leaves," and the
process. It also doesn't help that you are wildly swinging between
very different types and regions of tea that all require different
nuance and subtle differences.
This is a long reply, I know, but I feel I am required it after my
initial comments which may have been taken poorly. There is a wealth
of information here in the archives including many folks who do not
post anymore who were very knowledgeable, there are many great people
still here, many years of study and growth and discovery, if you want
to be scientific about anything my suggestion would be to focus it on
R&D and reading and history. It will all result in a better cup of tea
because unscientifically sometimes the best tea is an emotion while
the tea itself is merely passable. I could elaborate more but I'll
pause here for now to read your thoughts.
- Dominic
Space Cowboy
export grades I find in the stores. Some are so good I wonder how
they stack up against the 'real' thing. My main problem with Japanese
teas Im just too brutal using boiling water. The tea ceremonies
boil. The kyusu has a protracted handle to insulate against hot
water. I think it is more than form. I hate to say it but Ill have
to leave what is good in the stores versus something more direct to
somebody else.
Jim
Dominic T. wrote:
> On Oct 8, 8:40?am, Space Cowboy <netst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > This is OT but Id like to know what people think of the export
> > Japanese teas one sees in the stores versus exclusive websites.
...commercial versus estate...
Dominic T.
> I consider Yamamotoyama to be the Liptons of Japanese tea. I like the
> export grades I find in the stores. Some are so good I wonder how
> they stack up against the 'real' thing. My main problem with Japanese
> teas Im just too brutal using boiling water. The tea ceremonies
> boil. The kyusu has a protracted handle to insulate against hot
> water. I think it is more than form. I hate to say it but Ill have
> to leave what is good in the stores versus something more direct to
> somebody else.
>
> Jim
Lipton has some good offerings in some of their foreign offerings so
I'd say that's fair :) Yamamotoyama has a number of teas some are good
some aren't so hot but like I said I'm addicted to their sencha. I do
have to stick to my findings that the real deal is just unapproachable
in flavor and quality, I wish it wasn't so believe me. I treat it like
a special bonus and just bite the bullet at times... it does make it
harder to enjoy though knowing what that single cup cost than even
some of the most expensive teas from elsewhere. As for boiling water
you are correct, but you have to remember tea ceremony calls for
Matcha which does take boiling water. Delicate greens really do suffer
from too much heat.
I doubt it will be news to you but since it is in keeping with this
thread here is a link to Hibiki-An's page on brewing tips/suggestions:
http://www.hibiki-an.com/readings/how-to-enjoy-green-tea.html
I'm not sure what your experience is with matcha but it can be had at
very reasonable prices and is very enjoyable. It's everything you want
in one: cheap, available, and able to take high temps with little
fuss. But even as it goes against my normal views too, I'd suggest
everyone enjoy a true Japanese green freshly in season and brewed
properly. There may be no better tea for me, and it would undoubtedly
change your mind on what the difference truly is.
- Dominic
Alan
I consider myself a beginner like you when it comes to tea. As an
engineer and someone who does math for fun, I at first took the
approach to tea that you are taking. I wanted to classify and measure
and know everything I could. Then I got overwhelmed by the parameters.
I was so concerned with what I "should" do and "should" enjoy that I
felt that tea was more of a chore than a pleasure. Well, not exactly,
but the desire to get it "perfect" was detracting from the enjoyment.
For example, I felt that I simply HAD to like green teas because that
is what everyone seems to rave about. I played around with water temps
and amount of tea and steeping times to get a cup of green tea that I
loved. Now I accept that fact that most greens simply don't do it for
me.
I know that, in my case, I underestimate the amount of knowledge that
comes with experience and instead try to nail it all down from the
start. Now I'm trying to just go with it, try different things, and
develop that skill so that it becomes second nature.
Please consider Stefan's point that taste is subjective. I have found
that many teas that I at first disliked have grown on me. Some of that
comes with experiencing different teas, but a lot has to do with day-
to-day changes in taste. So, you can do all sorts of experiments with
different teas, then find that your taste has changed or that next
year's crop is completely different from this year's.
You're free to do what you want, of course. You came here for advice,
and you're getting it. Take it leave it. Ultimately the proof of the
pudding is in the eating, right?
Alan
chance
"Stefan Schenk" <Ich_weiss_...@gmx.de> wrote
> i am not of much help or you feel offended. My tea experience is
> limited to only three years of stumbling, but that way i managed to get
> one or two perfect moments.
How revealing story it is!
Incidentally, what teas have given you such perfect moments?
I presume that the teas must have been such that they must be
the ones that taste like tea.
I have been looking for for some time a tea-like tea, in vain,
that is, the tea that tastes like tea.
How do I know about such tea-like tea? I happened to have had
some luck to encounter such, exactly three times,
each time being of different kind of tea, all of which trails
I seem to have lost?
Stefan Schenk
>
> "Stefan Schenk" <Ich_weiss_...@gmx.de> wrote
>
>> i am not of much help or you feel offended. My tea experience is
>> limited to only three years of stumbling, but that way i managed to
>> get one or two perfect moments.
>
> How revealing story it is!
>
> Incidentally, what teas have given you such perfect moments?
> I presume that the teas must have been such that they must be
> the ones that taste like tea.
One of them was a jasmine green from a local shop here in Germany.
Nothing expensive, but this tea had just such a completeness in scent
and taste. And for a long time just by breathing out i had this warm
beautiful scent again in my nose.
Unfortunately already the next package of the same tea was just ugly and
i never found a similar jasmine tea again. Perhaps i was just lucky or
my tastes changed, i don't know.
The other one is this sencha here: http://tinyurl.com/46hqyf
or maybe it was, since i had it last year.
> I have been looking for for some time a tea-like tea, in vain,
> that is, the tea that tastes like tea.
Probably we mean the same, but my expression would be:
I'm looking for tea-like tea that is like tea.
I have the best tea experience when all my senses are touched. The look
of the leaves, dry and in the pot - the scent - the taste - feeling the
pot with your hands - sunny but not hot weather - almost silence, you
hear the leaves in the wind, some birds, your breath - the anticipation
of the tea - the aftertaste.
> How do I know about such tea-like tea? I happened to have had
> some luck to encounter such, exactly three times,
> each time being of different kind of tea, all of which trails
> I seem to have lost?
Yeah, i know what you mean.
Space Cowboy
what I saw in Chinatown in the 80s and 90s when the good stuff started
to appear on the shelves. My real problem I dont know how good the
Japanese stuff is suppose to be. I have one or two Japanese export
teas that knock my socks off even at boiling.
Jim
PS I have some ceremonial matcha that is 25 years old (the stuff you
could use for snuff). I thought I would never see it again but I was
in J-town recently and there it was again. If it wasnt so expensive I
would have bought some to compare.
Dominic T. wrote:
> On Oct 9, 9:32?am, Space Cowboy <netst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
...shelves versus local...
chance
"Stefan Schenk" <Ich_weiss_...@gmx.de> wrote
> One of them was a jasmine green from a local shop here in Germany.
> Nothing expensive, but this tea had just such a completeness in scent
> and taste. And for a long time just by breathing out i had this warm
> beautiful scent again in my nose.
> Unfortunately already the next package of the same tea was just ugly and
> i never found a similar jasmine tea again. Perhaps i was just lucky or
> my tastes changed, i don't know.
>
> The other one is this sencha here: http://tinyurl.com/46hqyf
> or maybe it was, since i had it last year.
>
> Probably we mean the same, but my expression would be:
> I'm looking for tea-like tea that is like tea.
That's more like it. I adopt your expression to describe a tea-like tea.
> I have the best tea experience when all my senses are touched. The look
> of the leaves, dry and in the pot - the scent - the taste - feeling the
> pot with your hands - sunny but not hot weather - almost silence, you
> hear the leaves in the wind, some birds, your breath - the anticipation
> of the tea - the aftertaste.
It seems that you are a tea lover in a real sense.
>> How do I know about such tea-like tea? I happened to have had
>> some luck to encounter such, exactly three times,
>> each time being of different kind of tea, all of which trails
>> I seem to have lost?
>
> Yeah, i know what you mean.
>
Thanks.
chance
"Space Cowboy" <nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:e6302a44-0ba0-4127...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Im seeing a better choice of teas in Japantown. It is equivalent to
> what I saw in Chinatown in the 80s and 90s when the good stuff started
> to appear on the shelves. My real problem I dont know how good the
> Japanese stuff is suppose to be. I have one or two Japanese export
> teas that knock my socks off even at boiling.
Would you let us all have information about what they are
which apparently reeled you at a whiff of the leaves?
Dominic T.
> Im seeing a better choice of teas in Japantown. It is equivalent to
> what I saw in Chinatown in the 80s and 90s when the good stuff started
> to appear on the shelves. My real problem I dont know how good the
> Japanese stuff is suppose to be. I have one or two Japanese export
> teas that knock my socks off even at boiling.
>
> Jim
>
> PS I have some ceremonial matcha that is 25 years old (the stuff you
> could use for snuff). I thought I would never see it again but I was
> in J-town recently and there it was again. If it wasnt so expensive I
> would have bought some to compare.
The best I can say is to pick a high-end Gyokuro from a shop like O-
Cha (either of their two top ones) and splurge for a 100g packet which
will probably run about $40-70 and then see what it is all about.
Unfortunately now that I have basically lost my behind in the markets,
there will be no Gyokuro treats in my near future... but I may become
familiar with another Japanese favorite - Ramen noodles.
The other, and most likely the best for most folks, option is to go to
a great tea house or shop/restaurant and have a cup of their best
brewed for you. It is much cheaper, hopefully it will be brewed right,
and will most likely display the difference.
The one thing I forgot to mention are the packets of sencha and matcha
mixed that can be found in regular markets. I really love them and
they can be fairly inexpensive. I will also say that for all of the
people who are so enamored with the "health" side of tea Matcha would
be the only logical choice since you are getting the full leaf which
has minimal processing and should contain 100% of whatever it is you
are looking for.
- Dominic
Space Cowboy
something about the word 'freshness' you see used to describe Japanese
teas. It has nothing to do with shelf life. It refers to minimal
processing which is only steaming. Since it is only one stage, I view
it as 'sealing in the nutrients'. The less stages the better. Ive
never seen any nitrogen packs from Japan.
Jim
PS I havent been disappointed with any of my commercial Maeda-en Gold
grades. I find any Gyokuro brand worth the price.
chance wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" <nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:e6302a44-0ba0-4127...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic T.
> One Ive mentioned in the past is Yabukita. I want to mention
> something about the word 'freshness' you see used to describe Japanese
> teas. It has nothing to do with shelf life. It refers to minimal
> processing which is only steaming. Since it is only one stage, I view
> it as 'sealing in the nutrients'. The less stages the better. Ive
> never seen any nitrogen packs from Japan.
>
> Jim
>
> PS I havent been disappointed with any of my commercial Maeda-en Gold
> grades. I find any Gyokuro brand worth the price.
I have to say that while many do stand up to time well (some even aged
slightly), there is a remarkable difference in a truly fresh crop
which is less than 3-4 months old. I really like fresh Japanese
greens, and that is fresh in terms of time. Here is some great info on
many aspects of Gyokuro: http://www.hibiki-an.com/readings/what%27s-kuradashi-gyokuro.html
Yabukita is just a variety, a popular one, but just as "Dragonwell" it
is overused to cover a wide range of varying tea quality and flavor.
Maeda-en also varies and just like Yamamotoyama offers a wide range of
poor to very good tea, I've never tried their Gyokuro but I'll give it
a try. Many Japanese greens are high quality even in lower grade
export packages so I guess it is a bit tough to debate because while
many are very good the jump up to fresh and ultra-high grades can be
subtle at times or vary in the differences differently than how many
other teas are judged. I actually think we agree more than it seems
from this conversation, I just can't say that the ultra-high grades
are in a class with even the best of the standards. I've tasted them,
and some hand delivered by friends from the source and brewed in
amazing fashion that puts my skills to shame... so my experience has
probably tainted me more than the average Joe Six-pack/Hockey Mom ;)
- Dominic
Space Cowboy
> On Oct 10, 10:28?am, Space Cowboy <netst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > One Ive mentioned in the past is Yabukita.
recently had a chance to compare a variety of Chinese 2008 greens
versus 2007. I couldnt smell any difference.
The key word to look at on any Japanese packaging is the word Gold.
It signifies the top of the line for that company.
Hey if Palin drinks tea that makes her an elitist.
Jim
PS I just learned the second class for Beginning Beekeepers was also
canceled. I did learn over the weekend my father-in-law maintained
beehives as a kid.
> I have to say that while many do stand up to time well (some even aged
> slightly), there is a remarkable difference in a truly fresh crop
> which is less than 3-4 months old.
> Yabukita is just a variety, a popular one, but just as "Dragonwell" it
> is overused to cover a wide range of varying tea quality and flavor.
> so my experience has
Square Peg
<Ich_weiss_...@gmx.de> wrote:
>Square Peg wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>> <dominic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>I know you are just starting out and
>>>quite eager, but you really should take your time and grow a bit
>>>slower in your pursuit. You will find the answers to your questions
>>>intuitively and naturally rather than this haphazard method currently
>>>being undertaken.
>>
>> Haphazard? I brew a pot making a careful record of the "parameters". I
>> then vary one or more "parameters" and compare the results. That, to
>> me, seems the antithesis of haphazard. Please explain.
>
>Well, somehow it is haphazard and somehow it is not. You seem to take a
>scientific kind of view, you take a sample and scan through the
>parameter space and then you 'measure' the result. However there are
>two flaws in this procedure. Firstly this procedure is just cold,
>technical, which is something i don't want to associate with tea.
I respect that you don't want to approach tea this way and that you
perceive it as "cold" and "technical", but I'm not trying to convince
you to do it my way. And I'm not denigrating your way, like you are
mine. I could call your way "fuzzy" or "illogical" or even "mindless"
or worse, but I'm not. If it works for you, great. It's not my way,
but that's what makes the world go 'round.
I'm just asking some questions of people with more experience and then
factoring that into my way. If you have some experience to offer, I'd
love to hear it. If my way is so distressing for you that you cannot
tolerate reading it, don't. Put me in your killfile, if you need to.
But it is not helpful to me for you to call me names or invalidate my
way.
>And
>the second point is that you cannot scientifically measure the taste of
>tea. It is quite subjective, so the procedure contradicts itself
>somewhat.
Using that standard, there is really nothing outside of pure
mathematics that we can "measure". Of course it's subjective. But,
unless you are saying that I cannot tell what I like, then I submit
that I am the perfect measuring device for tea taste. See, I am not
trying to determine what you will like or what anyone other than
myself will like. I am pretty sure that I am capable of giving a pot
of tea a 0-10 rating that will be reasonably valid.
>There is really much more needed for a good tea than just the correct
>amount of tea, steeping temperature, ... I mean they are important but
>they should not dominate your tea experience.
How do you know what "should" dominate *my* tea experience?
>Enjoying tea also
>requires the right frame of mind.
And you get to define what the "right" frame of mind is?
>If you are occupied with something,
>if you're focusing too much, if think too much about doing it
>correctly, you will never enjoy the tea as much as if you just enjoy.
I'll accept that this is true for you, but I cannot understand why it
is so important to you that this is also true for me. It's not, by the
way.
>>>There are no "parameters" to tea and while many of us are scientific
>>>minded tea is one area best to let that go with. Everyone takes their
>>>own journey though, and you are free to brazenly hack through the
>>>jungle to blaze your own path... I just hope to point out that there
>>>is a nice existing pathway steeped in history, tradition, and study
>>>with much nicer views.
>>
>> Hmmm... So everyone takes their own path, but if mine involves
>> "parameters" (horrors!), then I am brazenly hacking through the
>> jungle?
>> Can you explain to me what this "nice existing pathway" is and how I
>> seem to have fallen off into the jungle? I'm not being sarcastic. If
>> there is a better way, I'd like to know about it.
>
>To me it seems that you are not taking your own path but are hacking
>away in all directions and searching for a paved way.
There you go again with the judgments and the denigrations.
>I know this may be not satisfactory, because it is not a clear
>procedure, but as Dominic said slow down. Enjoy your tea, enjoy the
>preparation of the tea and don't focus too much on the technical side.
Hoew much is "too much" for me?
>To stay with the analogy, look at the jungle, enjoy the view and
>eventually you will find a way. Follow it. At some times it may be
>necessary to hack a little bit but then you probably know where and
>when to hack.
>
>I don't know if this is the pathway Dominic mentioned and i apologize if
>i am not of much help or you feel offended.
I am not offended, but telling me what you want me to hear, instead of
what I asked for, is not that helpful -- especially when it is loaded
with put-downs.
>My tea experience is
>limited to only three years of stumbling, but that way i managed to get
>one or two perfect moments.
I take it that "stumbling" is much preferred over "hacking". ;-)
Square Peg
<nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>YinHao is one of my favorites. Make sure it is the YinHao without the
>Jasmine flavor.
That is probably one of the problems. This one definitely has the
jasmine flavor. I think I may have some sort of adverse reaction to
jasmine. I also bought a bag of Moli Huacha ("Fanciest Jasmine"),
which I cannot tolerate. It makes me feel a little queasy.
>I buy mine in 500g tins. Ive made sure I am stocked
>for life. I consider it an honest tea ie you dont have to fuss around
>to make it. All the brewing aint going to change the taste very
>much. It is spring bud. There is no guarantee it is consistent
>through and through. Add more than you think. It goes down heavy.
>You may have to dump the first infusion to get something milder.
Where do you buy your Yin Hao?
>I
>like bold lip smaking Chinese greens. I notice if I suck in a leaf it
>seems leathery. When Im breaking in a new tea I drink it exclusively
>for about a week. I dont like the potpourri approach. It took me
>about a decade to appreciate green teas perse versus the readily
>available oolongs and blacks ie I had to unlearn some expectations.
>Fermented teas like Puer are a special case. There are teas I only
>drink on a rainy day or to determine how sick I am.
>
>Jim
>
>PS I wished someone would give me a $100 gift certificate for tea. I
>noticed over the years how different green tea looks infused. I
>should start a collection like butterflies.
It was a Christmas gift from my daughter, bless her heart. She's a
good girl.
She gave us a $150 gift certificate to an expensive restaurant. I am
now thinking that forgoing three meals at a cheaper restaurant for one
at this one might be something to think about. ;-)
Square Peg
All I want answers to my questions from whoever has the time and
inclination and without put-downs.
>We can all see your
>myriad posts and they all read identically. A new tea, a desire for
>scientific approach, a frantic flailing within "parameters," sometimes
>an acceptable result sometimes not.
Who's "frantically flailing"? I don't feel at all frantic. I cannot
understand why the zen contingent feels the need to put down any other
approach. My approach is valid. If it doesn't work for you, I'm OK
with that. If you want to offer me your perspective and you can do it
without denigration, I will listen.
>There is so much more to tea that
>you are sadly missing that we are more interested in helping you find
>the real story, the joy, the mindfulness, the history, the farmers,
>the process, the tradition... among many other factors.
And I am only marginally interested in all of that. I feel the same
way about wine, cheese, etc. Maybe I'm unenlightened or unevolved or
concrete or terminally logical or whatever, but that's who I am and I
am reasonably happy with it. If you can accept that and still want to
talk tea, great. If not, then I think it's as much your loss as mine.
>It's actually painful to me, and I'm sure others, to watch.
Well, I certainly didn't intend to cause you any pain. Do you think
you might be just a tad over-sensitive?
>So naturally we want you
>to realize there is more there than meets the eye, and we can see you
>have an interest, which are positives and in no way negative as you
>may feel.
You see, I'm not sure you really do want to help me. It sure doesn't
feel helpful. I don't usually put down people I truly want to help. If
you truly want to help me, then you would help me in the way that
would be most helpful to me, which is not the way you are currently
doing it. You probably do want to help me, but I think you want to
change me ever more. You probably think that changing me will help me,
but that is untilamtely arrogant, because it implies that you know
what's good for me better than I do.
>Tea is not meant to be scientific, in fact many original scholars
>speak out against such an approach.
Scholars? Name a few.
>When most of us speak of scales,
>thermometers, and stop watches it is usually only as a way to quantify
>what we do so that it may be more easily shared in an impersonal
>medium like Usenet. It is also good every now and then for
>establishing a baseline to then work from unscientifically or to check
>your work every now and then... but those tools are not a very large
>part of most of our experiences 99% of the time - if ever.
I accept that that is your way.
>There are too many variables to quantify anything with tea
Then I guess you would advise the cosmologists to immediately cease
all efforts to understand, certainly to quantify or (god forbid)
parameterize, the universe. Talk about variables...
>and I guess
>the part that pains me the most is I guess (and not meant badly) a
>foolish view to think anyone could.
So calling me foolish is goodly?
>Again when you go back to history
>it was not handled in this manner, and is not meant to.
Who says so?
Should we all go back to growing all of our own food on our own plots
of land. I don't really feel much "at one" with my oatmeal that comes
in a large tin from a farm in Utah.
>With Puerh
>many texts speak of how many "breaths" for steeping times.
I had a piano teacher once who hated metronomes. She used to say that
I should keep time by the beat of my heart. I tell ya, I had to be
very calm if I was ever to have any chance with the Minute Waltz or
Flight of the Biumblebee.
Have you ever taught piano in Northern California?
>That is
>where you should begin.
Should?
>It makes it personal,
for you...
>it allows the focus and
>mindfulness to be on the tea, "the agony of the leaves," and the
>process. It also doesn't help that you are wildly swinging between
>very different types and regions of tea that all require different
>nuance and subtle differences.
There you go again with the name calling. I don't feel "wild" at all.
>This is a long reply, I know, but I feel I am required it after my
>initial comments which may have been taken poorly. There is a wealth
>of information here in the archives including many folks who do not
>post anymore who were very knowledgeable, there are many great people
>still here, many years of study and growth and discovery, if you want
>to be scientific about anything my suggestion would be to focus it on
>R&D and reading and history.
It sounds like you are really fed up with me and wish I would stop
posting these wild, frantically flailing messages and just go read the
archives and leave the good folks here alone. Right>?
>It will all result in a better cup of tea
>because unscientifically sometimes the best tea is an emotion while
>the tea itself is merely passable.
Not for me
>I could elaborate more but I'll
>pause here for now to read your thoughts.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Square Peg
wrote:
>Square Peg,
>
>I consider myself a beginner like you when it comes to tea. As an
>engineer and someone who does math for fun, I at first took the
>approach to tea that you are taking. I wanted to classify and measure
>and know everything I could. Then I got overwhelmed by the parameters.
>I was so concerned with what I "should" do and "should" enjoy that I
>felt that tea was more of a chore than a pleasure. Well, not exactly,
>but the desire to get it "perfect" was detracting from the enjoyment.
>For example, I felt that I simply HAD to like green teas because that
>is what everyone seems to rave about. I played around with water temps
>and amount of tea and steeping times to get a cup of green tea that I
>loved. Now I accept that fact that most greens simply don't do it for
>me.
>
>I know that, in my case, I underestimate the amount of knowledge that
>comes with experience and instead try to nail it all down from the
>start. Now I'm trying to just go with it, try different things, and
>develop that skill so that it becomes second nature.
>
>Please consider Stefan's point that taste is subjective.
I agree with both you and Stefan that taste is subjective. I'm not
sure what I said to suggest otherwise.
>I have found
>that many teas that I at first disliked have grown on me. Some of that
>comes with experiencing different teas, but a lot has to do with day-
>to-day changes in taste. So, you can do all sorts of experiments with
>different teas, then find that your taste has changed or that next
>year's crop is completely different from this year's.
Very little in life is 100% predictable. I don't see that we should
conclude that we should not measure anything and do everything by the
seat of our pants.
>You're free to do what you want, of course.
Why, thank you. I wasn't sure for awhile there.
>You came here for advice,
>and you're getting it. Take it leave it. Ultimately the proof of the
>pudding is in the eating, right?
I love the advice. I love the personal experiences even more. I could
do without the condescencion. ;-)
Dominic T.
> I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Actually, I don't agree with your responses at all not even enough to
agree that we disagree. I can only hope that you'll see the error in
your way and thinking at some point in life regardless of tea. I can
assure you that you are attacking those who can be a Buddha to you and
you are willfully ignoring history and tradition to prove some point
that is pointless.
Continue on your own path, it will lead you somewhere as well.
I'm sorry,
- Dominic
Lurfys Maw
<dominic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 10, 7:35 pm, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
>> I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
>
>Actually, I don't agree with your responses at all not even enough to
>agree that we disagree. I can only hope that you'll see the error in
>your way and thinking at some point in life regardless of tea. I can
>assure you that you are attacking those who can be a Buddha to you and
>you are willfully ignoring history and tradition to prove some point
>that is pointless.
I thought buddhist were supposed to be non-confrontational and
accepting of everything.
>Continue on your own path, it will lead you somewhere as well.
>
>I'm sorry,
The hell you are. My god, what an ego.
Kitty
favorite. LOL Kitty
Kitty
>
> I was actually given a gift certificate. I bought
>
>
> I did not like the Moli Huacha at all, but then I probably don't like
> jasmine and it was very strong in this tea.
>
Square Peg, you can always send Jasmine tea to me, I love it most of
all, LOL
Kitty in pa
Space Cowboy
I buy the Fujian Tian Hu Shan tea factory brand in a Chinese store.
It comes in really nice 250/500g green tins.
Im sitting down at an expensive catered dinner the other night
wondering what I would get when I ordered tea. I got the proverbial
Lipton tea bag but at least the carafe contained steaming hot water.
Im at a loss, do I force the bag through the nozzle into the carafe
for brewing, or pour over the bag in the cup?
Jim
Square Peg wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 05:47:39 -0700 (PDT), Space Cowboy
> <nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >YinHao is one of my favorites. Make sure it is the YinHao without the
> >Jasmine flavor.
>
> That is probably one of the problems. This one definitely has the
> jasmine flavor. I think I may have some sort of adverse reaction to
> jasmine. I also bought a bag of Moli Huacha ("Fanciest Jasmine"),
> which I cannot tolerate. It makes me feel a little queasy.
> >I buy mine in 500g tins.
>
> Where do you buy your Yin Hao?
> It was a Christmas gift from my daughter, bless her heart. She's a
Space Cowboy
of weight, a second of time were his incremental variables for tea
taste differences. He got bored and went away after a myriad of such
posts. To parahrase you said in an earlier post "It is just me, Im
a tinkerer". I can live with that. I dont expect my next cup to
taste like the last. I like the occasional nonrepeatable ahh
moments. I enjoy YinHao even more when somebody brings it up. I send
everyone of my teas to the ER room with third degree burns when
somebody says I shouldnt be using boiling water. Thats just me.
Jim
PS Im looking at my Maeda-en tea packaging. Here is a new health
claim I hadnt heard before "Deter Food Poisoning".
Dominic T.
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:07:56 -0700 (PDT), "Dominic T."
>
I never stated I was a Buddhist. I said that folks here (myself
included) can be a Buddha to the OP, which means teachers. There is a
lot of knowledge and experience here, if you think that equates to ego
then that is fine. My only question to you and Square Peg: Why would I
or anyone take the time to help hundreds of people over the years on
this newsgroup but then be accused of being confrontational or
attacking in an attempt to help yet another? What would be my
motivation? Ego? No.
It can be hard to take criticism. I know the scientific mind and
approach, I too possess a scientific mind. I have tried to apply it to
tea over the years and I can assure you it was the least enjoyable
time looking back. Especially compared to where I am now. It puts
blinders on you and takes the focus off of the real point. I also am
very familiar with the scientific mind's desire to always be right and
the smartest kid in class, which also is folly. So I figured my
initial attempt to help would be rebuffed in much the manner it was.
So I had two options, stroke the OP's ego and be gentle and coddling
or just be straightforward and honest... I've tried the former before
in past posts unsuccessfully so I thought the latter might be better.
I was wrong.
Square Peg, all I can say is that if all you want is an answer to your
questions they can be easily found in our archives answered many times
in many ways. If you would like to learn and grow with many of us here
that is the goal. I can assure you I have no ego just a desire to help
others get as much as possible from the experience.
- Dominic
Square Peg
<nets...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Im allergic to Jasmine. The Chinese say I have a hot body type.
Perhaps you should post some photos... ;-)
>I buy the Fujian Tian Hu Shan tea factory brand in a Chinese store.
>It comes in really nice 250/500g green tins.
That's a great idea. We have a lot of Chinese shops in this area. I'll
stop by one and see what they have.
>Im sitting down at an expensive catered dinner the other night
>wondering what I would get when I ordered tea. I got the proverbial
>Lipton tea bag but at least the carafe contained steaming hot water.
>Im at a loss, do I force the bag through the nozzle into the carafe
>for brewing, or pour over the bag in the cup?
...and the answer is...?
toci
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pour over the bag in a cup. Isn't it refreshing to go back to basics
(Lipton's) every so often? Toci
chance
"chance" <cinc...@yahoo.co.kr> wrote
> Thanks.
Further to the preceding post, what descriptions do you think
there are to describe the characteristic tea taste or flavor of a tea-like tea?
One more thing, what significance do the colors of red, green, and yellow
used in the marks on the labels of puer teas have?
Stefan Schenk
> I respect that you don't want to approach tea this way and that you
> perceive it as "cold" and "technical", but I'm not trying to convince
> you to do it my way. And I'm not denigrating your way, like you are
> mine.
I apologize. I didn't want to be rude, i merely wanted to show you some
aspect that i find important.
> I'm just asking some questions of people with more experience and then
> factoring that into my way. If you have some experience to offer, I'd
> love to hear it.
This is what i tried to do.
> Using that standard, there is really nothing outside of pure
> mathematics that we can "measure". Of course it's subjective. But,
> unless you are saying that I cannot tell what I like, then I submit
> that I am the perfect measuring device for tea taste. See, I am not
> trying to determine what you will like or what anyone other than
> myself will like. I am pretty sure that I am capable of giving a pot
> of tea a 0-10 rating that will be reasonably valid.
I agree with you on that point. But what i wanted to say is that the
very same tea, brewed with the same amount of leaves at the same
temperature, may get a different rating from me at different days. For
example, if the weather is really cold or wet i would (probably) never
rate a green tea as high as i do otherwise. On the other hand i cannot
stand any black tea if it is too warm. So the weather clearly has an
influence on my tea experience. Furthermore it also strongly depends on
what i have eaten/drunk so far and next year you may have to do it all
again, because the tea may have changed. Taking all this (and other
things i didn't mention or forgot) into account invalidates the rating
in my opinion.
Stefan Schenk
> Further to the preceding post, what descriptions do you think
> there are to describe the characteristic tea taste or flavor of a
> tea-like tea?
Complete, perfect, overwhelming;-)
Honestly this question is quite difficult to answer only from memory
without having such a tea, but i would describe it as fruity with a
hint of grassy.
Space Cowboy
be aware every Chinatown is different.
I chose the bag in a cup. I realized the infused bag wouldnt come out
easily from the small neck carafe. I worked at a kitchen in college
and Im always sensitive to what the help has to deal with. I dont
know the correct Emily Post manner which occurred to me as I sat
there. Somebody else at the table stuffed theirs in the carafe.
Square Peg
<Ich_weiss_...@gmx.de> wrote:
>Square Peg wrote:
>> I respect that you don't want to approach tea this way and that you
>> perceive it as "cold" and "technical", but I'm not trying to convince
>> you to do it my way. And I'm not denigrating your way, like you are
>> mine.
>
>I apologize. I didn't want to be rude, i merely wanted to show you some
>aspect that i find important.
OK, and I apologize for over-reacting. I am interested in what you
find important. I won't agree with all of it, but I hope I will not
suggest that it shouldn't be important to you.
>> I'm just asking some questions of people with more experience and then
>> factoring that into my way. If you have some experience to offer, I'd
>> love to hear it.
>
>This is what i tried to do.
ok
>> Using that standard, there is really nothing outside of pure
>> mathematics that we can "measure". Of course it's subjective. But,
>> unless you are saying that I cannot tell what I like, then I submit
>> that I am the perfect measuring device for tea taste. See, I am not
>> trying to determine what you will like or what anyone other than
>> myself will like. I am pretty sure that I am capable of giving a pot
>> of tea a 0-10 rating that will be reasonably valid.
>
>
>I agree with you on that point. But what i wanted to say is that the
>very same tea, brewed with the same amount of leaves at the same
>temperature, may get a different rating from me at different days. For
>example, if the weather is really cold or wet i would (probably) never
>rate a green tea as high as i do otherwise. On the other hand i cannot
>stand any black tea if it is too warm. So the weather clearly has an
>influence on my tea experience. Furthermore it also strongly depends on
>what i have eaten/drunk so far and next year you may have to do it all
>again, because the tea may have changed. Taking all this (and other
>things i didn't mention or forgot) into account invalidates the rating
>in my opinion.
Of course this is true, but it is it true of almost everything, not
just tea. Audio speakers, for instance, can be fairly precisely rated
(measured) on a variety of characteristics (frequency response,
sensitivity, impedance, bass response, etc.), but my personal
experience will vary depending on many subjective factors including my
mood, what I have listened to recently, and even the weather.
Should we tell all of the audiophiles to junk all of there electronic
test gear, stop testing speakers, and just go for the zen experience?
That would be silly. But it is also silly to ignore the subjective.
However, just because I want to take measurements does not mean that I
am hostile to or even indifferent to the subjective.
I realize that the exact same parameters do not guarantee the exact
same experience. That's not my intent. But the parameters do have
value. Anyone who dismisses that is probably too narrow-minded and
rigid to be able to adequately appreciate the subjective, an irony
usually lost on them.
Most of this is not directed at you. Please don't take it personally
or even as a criticism.
Ok, I'm done now. I'm off to measure some parameters. ;-)
Alan
> Ok, I'm done now. I'm off to measure some parameters. ;-)
Weren't you LISTENING?!?! <very big grin>
Alan
Alan
> Pour over the bag in a cup. Isn't it refreshing to go back to basics
> (Lipton's) every so often?
Absolutely! I have five tins of tea at my desk right now, but several
times a week I'll go into the break area and make a cup of Bigelow
English Breakfast from the mass quantities of bags in the break area
provided to keep the work force sufficiently caffeinated. Sometimes
it's just what I want, and sometimes it's the easiest thing to make
before rushing off to a multi-hour meeting.
Alan
Square Peg
wrote:
>On Oct 13, 6:59 am, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
>> Ok, I'm done now. I'm off to measure some parameters. ;-)
>
>Weren't you LISTENING?!?! <very big grin>
Yes, but I only hear what I want to. I learned that from my kids.
Square Peg
wrote:
>On Oct 11, 9:55 am, toci <gina...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wouldn't one of those little infuser ball thingies be almost as easy
as a tea bag?
Alan
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:35:04 -0700 (PDT), Alan <a...@alanandmike.com>
Yes. In fact, that's what I usually use at work for black tea (the
spring-loaded kind, not the screw-top kind). I find that the ball is
large enough that the leaves don't get too crowded. I like the tea
bags if I'm heading to a meeting and don't want to mess with the spent
leaves. It's easier to drop the tea bag into a trash can than to carry
the tea ball around with me.
Square Peg
wrote:
>On Oct 13, 2:44 pm, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
Good point. The kitchen at my office has an Earl Grey that it not bad.
I actually thought it was very good until I bought some loose leaf
Earl Grey and started experimenting with the parameters. I can now
make a much better cup of Earl Grey, but the bags are still OK.
I am thinking about trying one of the Earl Greys made with green tea.
Alan
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:23:53 -0700 (PDT), Alan <a...@alanandmike.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I used to love Earl Grey, but now that I've educated my palate and
stopped adding sugar to tea, I find the bergamot overpowering. I have
some Earl White that I haven't even tried; the aroma alone is too
bergamotty.
toci
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bergamotty! I KNEW there was a word for it. Toci
Stefan Schenk
> I realize that the exact same parameters do not guarantee the exact
> same experience. That's not my intent.
Ok, so i misunderstood you there.
> But the parameters do have
> value.
At least to some extent. I do not pour boiling water over my Senchas and
some of them like lower temperatures than others. And before you ask,
from time to time i do measure the temperature with a thermometer;-)
To get a better understanding of what you do, can you tell how accurate
you measure your parameters and how strictly you follow your optimum
values?
Scott Dorsey
>
>I used to love Earl Grey, but now that I've educated my palate and
>stopped adding sugar to tea, I find the bergamot overpowering. I have
>some Earl White that I haven't even tried; the aroma alone is too
>bergamotty.
Not all Earl Grey is saturated to the point of being overpowering. There
is some very good and subtle bergamot-scented tea out there. But, in a
pinch you can take the overscented tea and cut it with keemun black or
something.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Natarajan Krishnaswami
> Not all Earl Grey is saturated to the point of being overpowering. There
> is some very good and subtle bergamot-scented tea out there.
They run the bergamut?
N.
Square Peg
I have a scale that is accurate to .1g.
I use the Pino Digital Kettle Pro to heat the water. It claims to be
accurate to +/- 3%. If I am going for 170F, I usually take it at
anywhere from about 168F to 173F.
I use the IngenuiTEA for brewing, which has no volume markings on the
side. My guess is that this is because they don't know how much tea
will be in the pot, which would affect the level. I made a few marks
on the side for thise times when I make less than the full pot
(~800mL). So that could be off by ~5%.
I use the timer on the stove, which I imagine is very accurate, but
there may be a delay of a few seconds on either end.
I do not keep track of the room temperature, outside temperature,
humidity, phase of the moon, my biorhythms, or anything having to do
with crystals or magnets.
> and how strictly you follow your optimum
>values?
I'm not sure what you mean by that. When I want to brew a pot, I check
my tea database of past brews and see what it recommends.
Here's an example. I want to make a 500 mL pot (one of my thermos
bottles). I choose a tea. The database program recommends 2.4 g/cup
for 2:00 minutes at 160F. I enter 500 mL and it tells me I need 6.7g
of tea. I decide to brew it slightly stronger so I enter 2.6 g/cup. It
then tells me that I need 7.2 g for my 500 mL pot.
I fill the kettle, set it to 160F, and turn it on. While it's heating,
I weigh the tea. When I get close to 7.2 g, I tap the container a bit
too hard and more tea comes out than I planned. The scale reads 7.5g.
I decide to leave it. When I am done, I enter 7.5g and the database
tells me that my actual brew strength was 2.7g/cup. I enter my rating
(0-100).
Over time, the database recommendations get better and better.
Space Cowboy
In case anyone hasnt noticed Im using one of those tiny EEEPCs I got
at Target which weighs less than three of my beengs. In fact I think
one would make a good heat sink for aging.
Jim
On Oct 15, 11:14 pm, Square Peg <Square...@Round.Hole> wrote:
...not enough db fields...
> I do not keep track of the room temperature, outside temperature,
> humidity, phase of the moon, my biorhythms, or anything having to do
> with crystals or magnets.
...youre getting there...