Water

[Ophelia]

This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
water?????

Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
your water turned off????

I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people, at
a time like this, manage with no water?????


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 4:20:31 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
> people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> water?????
>
> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
> your water turned off????

That's true. Just like electricity or any other utility.

ISTR that Detroit was putting water shutoffs in abeyance for the duration
of the crisis. I doubt they're turning it back on for people who already
had it shut off, but you never know.

> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people, at
> a time like this, manage with no water?????

The same way they manage at any other time with no water.

Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

Why does GM keep saying that even the American poor have a higher
standard of living than the average European?

[John Kuthe]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 3:20:31 AM UTC-5, Ophelia wrote:
> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
> people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> water?????
>
> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
> your water turned off????
>
> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people, at
> a time like this, manage with no water?????
>

That is one thing we in St Louis MO USA will never run low on, as STL is at the confluence of two of the largest rivers in the United States, the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. And I have kayaked on them both!

John Kuthe...

[Terry Coombs]

  What about those people in Flint that can't use the city water
because it's poisoning them with lead ? I wonder what the Democratic
leaders did with the money that should have been spent to upgrade
infrastructure ?

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

[Taxed and Spent]

Or the bribes they took from the unions to not update the building code.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Jesus Wept! If you didn't pay your water bill, your water would be shut
off. It doesn't matter how much fetid crap rolls down the rivers to
St. Louis.

Cindy Hamilton

[Ophelia]

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
news:9223d6a7-741d-4834...@googlegroups.com...

====

But for domestic water?

UK regulations:

"Can a water company cut me off? No, a water company
cannot cut off the supply to a domestic property if you
currently live in it.

Despite this it's still important to pay any arrears
to avoid the risk of court action."

I am shocked that is not the same everywhere:(

[Ophelia]

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
news:9223d6a7-741d-4834...@googlegroups.com...

====

But for domestic water?

UK regulations:

"Can a water company cut me off? No, a water company
cannot cut off the supply to a domestic property if you
currently live in it.

Despite this it's still important to pay any arrears
to avoid the risk of court action."

I am shocked that is not the same everywhere:(

[Ophelia]

"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
news:9223d6a7-741d-4834...@googlegroups.com...

====

Not here! See my other post!!!!

[Terry Coombs]

  I'm glad our water here comes from deep wells . Those folks in Da Loo
are drinking the effluent from the sewage processing plants of all the
cities upstream ... yecccch !

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
> This morning I had a big shock!  There was a report on the radio that
> many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> water?????
>
> Is that true!  You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
> have your water turned off????
>
> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!   How on earth can those people,
> at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>

Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
situation.

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:ZXimG.9611$yn1....@fx20.iad...

===

Oh I am so sorry that it can happen:(( If you read my other post(s)
(apols for that)

Any houses we live in in UK cannot have their water shut off:( Yes we can
be taken to court and we can be fined, but not cut off:(

It is a terrifying thought.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Yes, for domestic water.

Think about everything you know of the United States. It's all of a piece.

Cindy Hamilton

[songbird]

Ophelia wrote:
>
> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many
> people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> water?????
>
> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
> your water turned off????
>
> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people, at
> a time like this, manage with no water?????

you must live in a very sheltered place.

there are water issues in many areas of this planet.

humans seem to like to exploit things to the point
of destruction before they finally start being forced
to live within the carrying capacity of the areas
they inhabit. in ancient times they just moved on
after destroying a place. now there are fewer and
fewer places to move on to...


songbird

[songbird]

Terry Coombs wrote:
...

>   What about those people in Flint that can't use the city water
> because it's poisoning them with lead ? I wonder what the Democratic
> leaders did with the money that should have been spent to upgrade
> infrastructure ?

they've been replacing pipes. costs a lot of $.
not sure how far they are towards being finished but
i do know they've made progress.


songbird

[Ophelia]

"songbird" wrote in message news:mq2pmg-...@anthive.com...

====

Not quite the same thing I was talking about as I think you know!

[jmcquown]

Unless you have a *well* you pay whatever local company there is to
provide water. Yes, they expect you to pay the bill.

People don't always have a choice about where to get their water. When
I lived in west Tennessee, even though I didn't live within the Memphis
city limits, it was provided by Memphis Light Gas & Water. It's not as
if I could shop around for a different water provider or an electric
provider, either. Here in Beaufort County, water is provided by
Beaufort Jasper Water Authority. (Jasper is an adjoining county.)
Electricity and gas (if gas in an option) is a totally different company.

During this pandemic it is up to the individual providers as to whether
or not they shut off services. I've not heard of any running around
willy nilly shutting off water or electricity because suddenly people
can't pay the monthly bill. They aren't charging late fees or racking
up penalties for non-payment. They aren't disconnecting service due to
lack of payment. That would make them look *really* bad. But at some
point they do expect to be paid.

They're the ones maintaining the infrastructure and they have to pay
their employees. The billing clerks can work from home, sure. But the
people out repairing broken water mains and electric and gas lines are
still out there on the job so people won't have to go without essential
services.

People are being asked to pay as much as they can (even if it's just a
couple of dollars) each month so when this pandemic is finally over they
won't be hit with huge bills in arrears.

Jill

[col...@gmail.com]

I got something in email from the water co and it said there will be no late charge for water bills.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Not really. There are ways to get help. If the water gets shut off you
can be sure they are true deadbeats with no intention of ever paying.
It is not because they are 10 days late, it is because they are years
late and living in squalor.

[Bruce]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 16:58:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 4/17/2020 10:29 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> "Ed Pawlowski"  wrote in message news:ZXimG.9611$yn1....@fx20.iad...
>>

>> Rare, but can happen.  How many were shut off?  Very few of the 320
>> million of us.  Getting water to a house does have a cost.  Most are
>> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>> situation
>> ===
>>
>>  Oh I am so sorry that it can happen:((  If you read my other post(s)
>> (apols for  that)
>>
>>  Any houses we live in in UK cannot have their water shut off:(  Yes we
>> can be taken to court and we can be fined, but not cut off:(
>>
>>  It is a terrifying thought.
>>
>Not really. There are ways to get help. If the water gets shut off you
>can be sure they are true deadbeats with no intention of ever paying.
>It is not because they are 10 days late, it is because they are years
>late and living in squalor.

You have a lot of deadbeats then.

"Each year, millions of Americans have their water turned off as a
result of unpaid water bills. The organization Food & Water Watch
estimates that water was cut off to 15 million people in 2016, based
on information provided by utility companies. "
<https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/can-a-utility-company-shut-off-my-water-without-notice.html>

[Janet]

In article <ZXimG.9611$yn1....@fx20.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

>
> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >
> > This morning I had a big shock!  There was a report on the radio that
> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> > water?????
> >
> > Is that true!  You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
> > have your water turned off????
> >
> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!   How on earth can those people,
> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
> >
>
> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
> million of us.

FSV of "rare, very few"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/06/millions-us-at-risk-
losing-running-water-amid-layoffs-triggered-coronavirus-pandemic


" in 2016, one in every 20 households were disconnected by public
water departments, leaving an estimated 15 million Americans without
running water."

In the coming downturn there's going to be a lot more unemployed
Americans at risk of unpaid water bills

Janet UK

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 3:58:40 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Not really. There are ways to get help. If the water gets shut off you
> can be sure they are true deadbeats with no intention of ever paying.
> It is not because they are 10 days late, it is because they are years
> late and living in squalor.
>

I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
market they lived next door to.

[Bruce]

How did they shower and flush the toilet?

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

I haven't a clue, I was not that interested to ask. They have a retarded
son and the neighbor across the street sort of took him under her wing and
would make him take a shower at her house.

[Hank Rogers]

You found Druce's next of kin, and he's not even thankful.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Sounds awfully high. Even in the low income areas it is rare to hear of
it. But hey, have fun,

[Bruce]

Could it be that you have no idea what goes on in da hood?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Probably ran a hose to the neighbor's house. Some towns have a fixed
cost and no meters so it would not be detected.

The numbers still seem very high. In Detroit there are many empty
houses that have water shut off and no one living there. That city
would be high counting them. I'm not inclined to go searching for the
methodology though. I have water here.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Maybe. I've known plenty of people that had gas and electric shut off,
don't know of water.

[Gary]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >

> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that

> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> > water?????
> >

> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will

> > have your water turned off????
> >

> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,

> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
> >
>
> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
> situation.

I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
having
your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.

Even then, rather than just ignoring bills, it's always best to
call them up and explain your situation. Many are often willing
to help you work something out.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >
>> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that
>> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>> > water?????
>> >
>> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will
>> > have your water turned off????
>> >
>> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,
>> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>> >
>>
>> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
>> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
>> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>> situation.
>
>I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>having
>your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.

Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?

[Bruce]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:00:24 -0500, Hank Rogers <Nos...@invalid.com>
wrote:

I don't have showers across the street. I just jump in the creek.

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:0MomG.825$ZL6...@fx28.iad...

====

I expect you are correct but that is how it is here.

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5E9AC7E7...@att.net...

===

That sounds good! At least you know you can get help!

[Cindy Hamilton]

You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.

Cindy Hamilton

[Janet]

In article <xHrmG.100533$Xk.2...@fx46.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
companies.

https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/shocking-study-15-million-us-
residents-had-water-shut-2016

"Top findings of the survey include:

Fifteen utilities reported shutoff rates of more than 10 percent.
The states with the highest shutoff rates are mostly concentrated in
the South ? Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida.
Jacksonville, Florida?s high shutoff rate?16 percent?affected 41,311
households, or an estimated 107,409 people.
Phoenix, Arizona?s shutoff rate, 9 percent, affected over 33,000
households, or 94,000 people. Tucson, Arizona had the highest shutoff
rate in the West, at 11 percent.
High rates of shutoffs occurred in midwestern states including South
Dakota, Iowa, Michigan and Wisconsin.
There is no data for four states including New Jersey and West
Virginia, where private companies operate the two largest utilities.
Only one private company responded to the survey, representing a 9
percent response rate. The response rate of public utilities was 93
percent.
The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
color.

While the average city with the most shutoffs is low-income, not all
low-income cities engage in mass shutoffs. Jackson, Mississippi had high
rates of poverty (31 percent) and a zero percent shutoff rate. Jackson
has not had a water or sewer rate increase since voters approved an
increase to the sales tax to help improve the city?s infrastructure.
Meanwhile, some cities surveyed, like Eau Claire, Wisconsin and
Leominster, Massachusetts do not shut off water service for non-payment
at all."

Janet UK

[Gary]

No but UK laws are different from US laws.

[Gary]

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>
> Bruce wrote:
> > How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>
> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.

Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
is cut off. lol

[Cindy Hamilton]

Rainwater. Water from the source you snipped:

>>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
>>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
>>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
>>>> market they lived next door to.

Cindy Hamilton

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 10:08:16 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
> "Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
> news:9223d6a7-741d-4834...@googlegroups.com...
>

> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 4:20:31 AM UTC-4, Ophelia wrote:
> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that many

> > people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> > water?????
> >

> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will have
> > your water turned off????
>

> That's true. Just like electricity or any other utility.
>
> ISTR that Detroit was putting water shutoffs in abeyance for the duration
> of the crisis. I doubt they're turning it back on for people who already
> had it shut off, but you never know.
>

> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!! How on earth can those people,

> > at
> > a time like this, manage with no water?????
>

> The same way they manage at any other time with no water.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
> ====
>
> But for domestic water?
>
> UK regulations:
>
> "Can a water company cut me off? No, a water company
> cannot cut off the supply to a domestic property if you
> currently live in it.
>
> Despite this it's still important to pay any arrears
> to avoid the risk of court action."
>
> I am shocked that is not the same everywhere:(

Don't forget: the United States isn't a nation so much as 50 separate
nations. Each state has their own laws for most things, per our
Constitution.

Cindy Hamilton

[Dave Smith]

A bucket of that stuff that they aren't getting any more?

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'd not say fake but news people often take bland reports and
sensationalize them. I've heard nothing on the news here about water
shutoffs.

If it was a big problem some of the news outlets here would have picked
it up too. Keep in mind, in 50 states there are thousands of water
suppliers. Did they take what one or two are doing and extrapolate that
the entire country does the same? I don't know. No one here knows.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Fill it from the neighbor's hose.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 4/18/2020 7:37 AM, Janet wrote:

>
> Here's the figures according to a nationwide survey of US water supply
> companies.
>
> https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/shocking-study-15-million-us-
> residents-had-water-shut-2016

> The highest shutoff rates were disproportionately in cities with
> more people living in poverty, more unemployment and more people of
> color.

> Janet UK
>

Not sure how they call that disproportionately. I would expect poverty
areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
do areas.

[Sheldon Martin]

The laws are different in most areas of the US regarding whether the
property is owned or rented... if a tenant is in a private home the
water and electricity can't be turned off until the the tenant is
taken to court for eviction and the landlord prevails... and still the
court will grant the tenant so many days (10?) to vacate before the
Sheriff arrives to remove the tenant and place all their belongs at
the curb... and the crew that the Sheriff brings is not at all
careful, they just throw stuff in the road. Typical deadbeat tenants
know this so make sure to move out with their stuff in time. The last
two tenants I had in my little rental house were evicted they didn't
own much so they moved out on the last day with hours to spare but the
courts didn't do a thing about the damages they did. And so that is
when I gave up and had the house demolished and removed... cost us
$10,000 but was worth it not having to be at the mercy of POS tenants.
We applied for a property tax decrease and were granted a $1,500 a
year decrease. So in the end it was worth it not being a landlord to
dreck. That little house is gone and the property restored as if it
were never there, we kept the detached garage and the well.

The courts don't go after the POS tenants for money damages as they
have no money and don't work, plus putting them in jail only costs the
tax payers more. There are lots of tenants who move constantly and
never pay any rent, however they find money for drugs. The last
couple weren't married but since she had a 7-8 year old child she got
public assitance plus pain pills for her back problem, and I don't
know for certain but I'm pretty sure she was prostituting herself for
drug money for both of them... there were lots of different guys
driving up and staying there for an hour or two during the night. The
child lived with his real father but would visit a couple times a
week. The woman looked in her mid twenties and decent looking...
drugs can screw anyone up... she was zonked out in bed most every day.

[Sheldon Martin]

Depends where one lives, here there are occasional power outages and
our well pump doesn't work so we keep five gallon buckets of water
closeby plus we can refill from the creek in front.

[jmcquown]

I sure as heck haven't heard anything on the news about people having
their water shut off due to lack of payment as a result of the Covid-19
pandemic. That's not the sort of thing mainstream media would ignore.

What I'm hearing *locally* is if you can't pay your bill because you've
been laid off due to the virus they are waiving late fees and penalties.
They are not cutting off essential services such as water, electricity
or gas (where applicable). They do expect to be paid at some point.

Jill

[jmcquown]

Gary's selective trimming of posts sometimes bites him in the ass. ;)

Jill

[Gary]

You just don't ever read old posts. I never snipped rainwater.
Cindy added that after I responded.
Only mention of alt water was: "They just got their water daily

from a service/station
market they lived next door to."

Feel free to diss what I say anytime but at least get it right.
No doubt others here can look back in a thread and see your
errors.
Lose the wine during the early afternoon.
Lose the "better than thou" attitude while you're at it.

[jmcquown]

People in other countries don't understand. There are tons of different
water, electric and gas companies, all different depending upon where
you live in this vast country.

She heard a report on the radio. Is there an article to back it up? If
so I'd like to read it. Sounds like scaremongering but maybe that's
just me. <shrug>

Jill

[jmcquown]

On 4/18/2020 1:02 PM, Gary wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> On 4/18/2020 9:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:17:09 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
>>>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce wrote:
>>>>>> How did they shower and flush the toilet?
>>>>>
>>>>> You can flush the toilet by dumping a bucket of water in it.
>>>>
>>>> Not so easy to have a bucket of water handy if your water
>>>> is cut off. lol
>>>
>>> Rainwater. Water from the source you snipped:
>>>
>>>>>>> I knew of a family and from a friend their water had been cut off for a few
>>>>>>> years. It seems they owed well over $600 in arrears and never attempted to
>>>>>>> do a payment plan. They just got their water daily from a service/station
>>>>>>> market they lived next door to.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> Gary's selective trimming of posts sometimes bites him in the ass. ;)
>
> You just don't ever read old posts. I never snipped rainwater.

I never said you snipped "rainwater". I have better things to do than
spend my (useless, according to you) life reading old posts. You DO
trim excessively. Got a problem with bandwidth? Are you still using
dial-up?

> Cindy added that after I responded.
> Only mention of alt water was: "They just got their water daily
> from a service/station
> market they lived next door to."
>

*That* would be how they could flush their toilet. Hauling a bucket of
water from the service station. As long as they were hauling water from
the service station surely they could use some of it to flush the
toilet. Cindy was stating a fact. It is entirely possible to flush a
toilet by pouring a bucket of water in it.

Jill

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> I would expect poverty
> areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
> do areas.
>

This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
from my house. It sat at the edge of the projects and I would stand in line
with the black, white, and Hispanic folks living there and paying their
utility bills as well. It was a learning experience for sure. For one,
I was the only person who paid her bills with checks. Two, I did not
know you could only pay so much on a bill and still have service. Third,
the drugstore did a bang-up business selling money orders. Money orders
were purchased for other bills and so send money south of the border.

When the utility companies started doing auto bank draft I was signing up
immediately. Standing in line behind folks buying money orders and paying
a dib and dab here and there on their bills was a sure way to kill time and
be bored to death.

[Creme Fraiche]

jmcquown formulated on Saturday :

> I sure as heck haven't heard anything on the news about people having their
> water shut off due to lack of payment as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.
> That's not the sort of thing mainstream media would ignore.
>

I haven't heard anything about that happening
either, funny how we have to get our news about
the USA from people that don't live here.

Fake news once again.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
$25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
the ability of manage one.

Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.

[Bruce]

It's basically an EU.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:26:48 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Sounds very impractical to me, especially for a family. You'd want to
organise synchronised pooping or you'll be going to the service
station all day.

[Bruce]

Disproportionate as in 'larger numbers than average'.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:14:16 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:

>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> >> >

>> >> > This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that

>> >> > many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
>> >> > water?????
>> >> >

>> >> > Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will

>> >> > have your water turned off????
>> >> >

>> >> > I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,

>> >> > at a time like this, manage with no water?????
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
>> >> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
>> >> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
>> >> situation.
>> >
>> >I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
>> >lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
>> >having
>> >your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
>> >notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
>>
>> Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
>
>No but UK laws are different from US laws.

But it was about the US.

[Creme Fraiche]

Bruce used his keyboard to write :

> You'd want to organise synchronised pooping
>

C'mon psyllium husk, don't fail me now!

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:26:25 PM UTC-4, itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:57:24 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > I would expect poverty
> > areas to have a higher incidence of late bill payment than the well to
> > do areas.
> >
> This really has nothing to do with the water being cut-off discussion but
> 25 years ago I would pay all my utility bills at a drugstore about 2 miles
> from my house.

25 years ago was 1995. I paid most of my bills through direct withdrawal
from my checking account.

Cindy Hamilton

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> The drug store was an important part of the local economy back then.
> Many of those people had two problems. For some, they did not have the
> $25 or so to open a checking account and if they did, many did not have
> the ability of manage one.
>

That's true. I find it amazing the number of people that cannot manage
money. I'm talking about small amounts of money and checking accounts.
For some, a book of checks meant they could write them until they ran out
never mind there was no money in their account.

>
> Lower income people have a lot of disadvantages. They get paid with a
> check and [ay to cash it, then they pay a charge to pay a bill, if they
> have a credit card they pay the highest interest rates. If they get
> trapped in the payday loan thing they pay 300% interest.
>

No all, but so many of those disadvantages of their own making. Many are
high school dropouts, no job skills other than menial labor with a passel
of children. Children they don't encourage to stay in school and try to
do better than mom and dad.

[GM]

Some are also afraid of opening bank accounts for fear of being "found", e.g. they owe past - due child support, are being sought for overdue bills/loans, or they are just paranoid...also a dearth of banks in most poor nabes, the currency exchange is just down the corner....

We require our clients at our workforce agency to have a Financial Supports Coach, first thing is pulling a credit report, then establishing a payment plan/budget if needed, and if they've no bank account we work with a local non - profit credit union to open one (a secured one if they wish to open a line of credit, after one year the CU will match their initial $300.00 account, giving them a credit line of $600.00 or more). After sorting that all out, and once the clients attain employment, there often is a rise in their credit scores. Many have no credit score at all, do not know how to manage debt, etc...she can help negotiate with lenders, etc...

These Financial Support services are also available to us staff, some have found good rates on car loans, mortgages, etc....

We also have a certified financial planner (was a CPA for a major automaker) on staff, he assists with investment planning, retirement planning, etc...again this is for both clients and staff, very helpful to us all...

There is a DIRE need for better financial literacy in the US, even many young - or not young! - professionals have not a clue...

--
Best
Greg

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

Yup. That's when I signed up. Maybe they had offered it and I was unaware,
but as soon as I knew I could this I was onboard! Big convenience and a big
money saver on postage as well.

[GM]

Isn't it...and of course what they present here is *always* negative - always, always direly mis - informed...I've seen many such on other Usenet groups and forums...

Like "Pamela's" imbecile troll thread about "smart cars"...believe it or not poorer folks here do not live like the Joads, they drive okay cars, have cellphones, air conditioning, big TV's, health care and other resources. Many own their own homes, even...

Years ago there was a snotty Dutch poster ("Sjoerd") on rec.travel.air. HATED the US and everything it did. I sailed into him after he stated that Central/Europe had had it better when they were communist, "Oh, in East Germany people had closer and deeper friendships...in Romania and Poland women were a large percentage of the workforce...all the basics of life in those places were GUARANTEED..." He even had nothing but good to say about his six - month business sojourn in North Korea, "the people all have solidarity, they all seem happy..." [!!!]

The final straw was when he called the Marshall Plan and NATO "evil", that these organizations were only installed as a tool of American imperialism...e.g. there was no moral diff at all between NATO/EU and Warsaw Pact/COMECON, or between Western free - market capitalism and Soviet centrally - planned economies...

My reply was, "Uh, let's see...you were lucky to be born in the now - rich and prosperous Netherlands...you have a C - suite job with Philips, which allows you to fly your queer ass all around the world First Class on KLM, you have a lovely canal - side townhouse in Amsterdam, which you share with your gay male partner to whom you are married. If you had been born in Minsk or Sofia or East Berlin, how do you think your quality of life would now be!? Certainly not like the posh life you lead now. And part of the reason that you have it all is because NL was/is allied with the US and Western Europe and their values, and as a result it's much nicer even today in 2002 to live in Holland or Norway or Spain than it is in Bulgaria or Romania or Belarus..."

He got all huffy, claiming "I'll NEVER visit the USA!", I replied, "We don't need you here in the states, you can take your perverted self and your dirty florins to Thailand or someplace to buy your little boy prostitutes..."

LOL, he flounced away, never to return...

--
Best
Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

Like I said. No shit. Poor people have a larger portion of late bills.
I wonder how they figured that out.

[Hank Rogers]

Yes. It's "united States". And none of the states therein allow
fucking assholes like you to participate. You must first become a
citizen, and live in one of one of the states, if you want to
participate.

Otherwise you can just fuck off, and go back to holland.

Got it now Gruce?

[Bruce]

They stated the obvious and you protest?

[graham]

So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
It was ever thus!

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 5:02:53 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>
> So it's always the fault of poor people not to be successful and wealthy.
> It was ever thus!
>

No, but many times it is.

No matter what opportunities are presented to some people we will ALWAYS
have the poor, poorly educated, menial jobholders. Some are perfectly
happy to live in the projects, generations in one apartment, and if their
kids graduate from school fine and dandy and if they don't, that's fine
and dandy as well.

[GM]

Poverty can be a result of circumstance, more often than not today it is also a result of poor personal choices...

To improve their lives, those "in need" should look to emulate their betters...!!!

--
Best
Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

They make a big deal and undertake a study to come up with the obvious
that everyone has known for the past century. The PC crowd does not
have the balls to state "as expected"

[Bruce]

Yes, that's how the PC crowd rolls.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Many reasons, some genetic. Mental illness in various forms and lack of
ability. Some are addicted to drugs or alcohol and are content living
that way.Not everyone wants help.

Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.

Yes, Twas ever thus

[Hank Rogers]

He just said it to get you to sniff his ass, Fruce. It ALWAYS works.

[jmcquown]

This discussion reminds me of a short-lived PBS show that re-created
living conditions in a Victorian era slum:

The Doss House:

https://www.pbssocal.org/programs/victorian-slum-house/d0cqlm-living-doss-house/

It was yet another "reality" social experiment akin to '1900 House' and
'Frontier House'. Fun stuff. They were lucky if they had running water
or even a bucket. They did strive to do better, though.

Jill

[GM]

When I worked in homeless services I was astounded that a goodly percentage of the hard - core, e.g. street homeless, not only abhor any outreach/assistance, but prefer life on the street. After all, if you have an apartment, there is a certain amount of responsibility in having to follow basic rules, etc....and some do not want the "responsiblity" of even having a rent - free place (utilities included)...

A few years ago there was a small homeless tent city here in Chicago's Uptown. The city and social service agencies made a concerted effort to house over a hundred of them in their own private apartments/living facilities. A year later about half of them had been evicted for various criminal infractions, drugs, disruptive behavior, having "apartments of filth", having pets in no - pet dwellings, barbequing inside, etc....some of these I case - managed, they would deliberately defy basic living rules, and despite our intervention, they fucked themselves out of their decent private apartments...

> Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
> food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
> given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
> really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
> to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
> doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.

Many *say* they want to work, but they never have any intention of actually *going* to work and sustaining stable employment. After all, it is spelled "work" for a reason, no...???

Especially with the "dependent" class, they'd sail in demanding "GIVE ME A JOB!" Sorry, I'm not a miracle worker, I cannot undo all of your poor past life decisions - and it is *you* that has to eventually get the job...and you are not going to start out with an easy and well - paying gig in a nice place, even us motivated folk had to start at the bottom...


> Yes, Twas ever thus


Could not have said it better meself...

I helped many poor immigrants and refugees in attaining employment, they would take any - and often multiple - crummy jobs to get ahead, they kept their nose to the grindstone and never complained; they got ahead - and their kids excel academically and will become professionals. This is something that many USAin's would do well to emulate - even the white middle - class ones...

--
Best
Greg

[jmcquown]

Someone will bash me for bringing this up but I'll do it anyway. Years
back when I was living in west TN I stopped at a gas station near my
apartment. There was a liquor store right next door. A homeless man
approached me while I was pumping gas and asked if I had any spare
change. He said he was hungry.

I don't hand out money to strangers. And I'm not very trusting of
people who hang out in the vicinity of liquor stores. However, there
was a Burger King right across the street. I said if you're hungry
let's go over there and I'll buy you a meal. He accepted and met me in
the parking lot.

He stood outside reading items off the drive-thru menu. He was too
ashamed of being grubby to go inside. I asked what he'd like to order.
BK had a deal at the time on the then *new* Black Angus Burger & fries.
He hesitantly asked, "Could I have that?" Of course! And yes, he ate
it. It was a nice day so we sat outside and talked while he ate. His
name was Steve. He said he was a Vietnam vet. He rambled a bit; he was
likely mentally ill and quite possibly a drug addict and alcoholic. But
at least I know on that day, he ate a hot meal.

Jill

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 6:54:33 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Take the panhandler you see on the street corner with the "will work for
> food" sign. The ones that don't show up when offered work. The ones
> given food by well meaning people that toss it away because what they
> really want is money for alcohol. There was one that stood by the exit
> to a supermarket in town. After a few weeks the highway department was
> doing some work and they found a lot of discarded food.
>
> Yes, Twas ever thus
>

Here the 'homeless' and panhandlers sell a newspaper called "The Contributor."
It gives the plight, always slanted of course, of the poor old 'indigent.'
The paper was 50¢ and the seller kept 25¢ but about two years ago the price
was raised to $1 per copy with the seller keeping 50¢. Selling this paper is
supposed to help them until they get back on their feet. For some, it's a
full-time job and actual full-time employment is not what they're wanting.

There was a guy just at the edge of the property at the Kroger I shop at.
He had a little fold-up chair and had this spot for THREE (3) YEARS. Never
once did I see him that his hand was not in a bag of some sort of chips.
Never.

[Doris Night]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:44:42 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Someone will bash me for bringing this up but I'll do it anyway. Years
>back when I was living in west TN I stopped at a gas station near my
>apartment. There was a liquor store right next door. A homeless man
>approached me while I was pumping gas and asked if I had any spare
>change. He said he was hungry.
>
>I don't hand out money to strangers. And I'm not very trusting of
>people who hang out in the vicinity of liquor stores. However, there
>was a Burger King right across the street. I said if you're hungry
>let's go over there and I'll buy you a meal. He accepted and met me in
>the parking lot.
>
>He stood outside reading items off the drive-thru menu. He was too
>ashamed of being grubby to go inside. I asked what he'd like to order.
>BK had a deal at the time on the then *new* Black Angus Burger & fries.
>He hesitantly asked, "Could I have that?" Of course! And yes, he ate
>it. It was a nice day so we sat outside and talked while he ate. His
>name was Steve. He said he was a Vietnam vet. He rambled a bit; he was
>likely mentally ill and quite possibly a drug addict and alcoholic. But
>at least I know on that day, he ate a hot meal.

That was very nice of you, Jill.

Doris

[GM]

Doris, we've not seen you for a very long time here, hope you are doing well...

--
Best
Greg

[Cindy Hamilton]

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white>

Cindy Hamilton

[Janet]

In article <wyDmG.72538$Ff6....@fx40.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

>
> On 4/18/2020 5:41 AM, Bruce wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 05:27:03 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 4/17/2020 4:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> >>>>

> >>>> This morning I had a big shock! There was a report on the radio that

> >>>> many people in USA were having a difficult time because they don't have
> >>>> water?????
> >>>>

> >>>> Is that true! You have to pay water bills and if you don't, you will

> >>>> have your water turned off????
> >>>>

> >>>> I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!  How on earth can those people,

> >>>> at a time like this, manage with no water?????
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Rare, but can happen. How many were shut off? Very few of the 320
> >>> million of us. Getting water to a house does have a cost. Most are
> >>> probably a year or more behind and made no attempt to resolve the
> >>> situation.
> >>
> >> I agree with you, Ed. In this fairly short time where people have
> >> lost income and might be late paying bills, I seriouly doubt
> >> having
> >> your water cut off is due to this situation. You will get several
> >> notices to pay before they resort to a cut-off.
> >
> > Do you think what Ophelia saw on UK TV was fake news?
> >

> I'd not say fake but news people often take bland reports and
> sensationalize them. I've heard nothing on the news here about water
> shutoffs.

deaf and blind? Try googling "USA water cut-offs"
>
> If it was a big problem some of the news outlets here would have picked
> it up too.



Keep in mind, in 50 states there are thousands of water
> suppliers. Did they take what one or two are doing and extrapolate that
> the entire country does the same? I don't know. No one here knows.


"Food and Water Watch, a prominent (USA) national research and advocacy
group, tried a fresh approach earlier this year. To get a handle on the
most basic data ? the number of shutoffs ? the group sent requests to
the two largest water utilities in each state. The group asked for the
number of residential households disconnected from water service in 2016
and the number of residential accounts.

Seventy-three utilities responded. Shutoff rates ? the number of shutoff
households divided by the number of accounts ? varied widely, according
to Food and Water Watch?s report, which was published in October. Rates
ranged from 23 percent in Oklahoma City and 20 percent in Tulsa, to 1
percent in Baltimore, Boston, and Dallas. Three utilities ? Eau Claire,
Wisconsin; Leominster, Massachusetts; and the Champlain Water District
in Vermont ? did not shut off any homes in 2016."

Janet

[Janet]

In article <RdMmG.2066$AE7....@fx41.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

Yet you posted "

I've heard nothing on the news here about water
shutoffs.

If it was a big problem some of the news outlets here would have picked
it up too. Keep in mind, in 50 states there are thousands of water
suppliers. Did they take what one or two are doing and extrapolate that

the entire country does the same? I don't know. No one here knows.".

Now you do know;

1)do you think it acceptable that poor people have no water to wash
thair hands during the covid pandemic.

2) This means more of them will be a reservoir of covid infection
which will affect every level of US society.


Janet UK

[Cindy Hamilton]

It's not as simple as it looks. For example, Detroit has stopped shutting
off water for nonpayment. However, I read about a woman living in Detroit
who needs $5000 in plumbing repairs that she cannot afford before her water
can be turned back on. She's been living that way for several years.

Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

Anecdotal.

[Janet]

In article <TAGmG.1470$qK6....@fx22.iad>, j_mc...@comcast.net says...
> People in other countries don't understand. There are tons of different
> water, electric and gas companies, all different depending upon where
> you live in this vast country.

Exactly the same in the UK. But our national laws ban ALL
service providers of water, from cutting the water supply from domestic
homes(regardless of whether the property is owned or rented by the
occupants). That ban includes landlords of rented property.

>
> She heard a report on the radio.

Of course; reports of it are all over UK national media. Just like the
world sees and hear American prostesters crowding together and
demanding the right to ignore covid-control restrictions, and Trump
egging them on.


Is there an article to back it up? If
> so I'd like to read it.

Yes, I've posted the USA research link, AND quotes from that USA
research on water cut-offs. The evidence of water cut-offs came from a
national US survey of US water supply companies who voluntarily
provided that information.


If you can't find my posts or re-quotes of it, just google "water
cut-offs in USA" for yourself.

It beggars belief that the richest nation in the world knowingly
permits millions of its citizens to live in third world conditions,
without running water.


Janet UK

[Cindy Hamilton]

Not arguing your point. Just that it's easy to look at statistics
and judge without knowing what the underlying data looks like.

Cindy Hamilton

[Cindy Hamilton]

You're just now finding out that the U.S. doesn't give a crap about
the poor? The information has been out there literally for decades.

Cindy Hamilton

[Ed Pawlowski]

Not that simplistic. Some of those water shutoffs are probably empty
houses where the people were evicted and moved on.

There are plenty of ways to get help. As mentioned before, many just
run a hose and connect to a neighbor, takes 5 minutes and you have water.

I will say, if it happens to be an inner city crack house, I don't
really care, not do they.

[Ed Pawlowski]

True, but you have to look at where the statistics come from.
Unoccupied houses? Some cities have plenty of them with tax liens and
such that would have water shut off.

[Doris Night]

I'm doing fine Greg. Just mainly lurking, that's all.

Thank you for noticing :-)

Doris

[Dave Smith]

On 2020-04-19 10:08 a.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 4/19/2020 7:45 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

air hands during the covid pandemic.
>>>
>>> It's not as simple as it looks.  For example, Detroit has stopped
>>> shutting
>>> off water for nonpayment.  However, I read about a woman living in
>>> Detroit
>>> who needs $5000 in plumbing repairs that she cannot afford before her
>>> water
>>> can be turned back on.  She's been living that way for several years.
>>
>> Anecdotal.
>>
> True, but you have to look at where the statistics come from. Unoccupied
> houses?  Some cities have plenty of them with tax liens and such that
> would have water shut off.

Detroit is an urban phenomenon in a class of its own with an incredible
number of abandoned homes and buildings. Before writing about that I
Googled it to make sure I had the reliable information. I started to
type in "how many abandoned houses......" and Google auto filled "in
Detroit". There were a lot more than I had expected... 70,000 abandoned
buildings, 31,000 abandoned houses and 90,000 vacant lots. With a little
more research I learned that a lot of those vacant homes and buildings
had been abandoned without shutting off the water. Pipes burst and
copper pipes were stolen, so water was gushing. That could account for a
lot of the "homes" were the water was shut off.

[Bruce]

They may be the richest nation in the world, but the money's rather
unevenly divided. Take two wrong turns and you're in the 3rd world, or
so I was told by friends who went to New York. Unbridled capitalism
you know :)

[Bruce]

>You're just now finding out that the U.S. doesn't give a crap about
>the poor? The information has been out there literally for decades.

The cutting off of water is even denied by Americans in this thread,
so why can't this be news to non-Americans?

[Bruce]

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 06:21:16 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

There will be a few people who have such bad plumbing problems that
they can't afford to fix them, but I doubt that number would change
the statistics much.

[graham]

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the wickedest
of men will do the wickedest of things for the greatest
good of everyone. - John Maynard Keynes

[Ed Pawlowski]

Unfortunately, that is very true. It is also true that we all have the
same opportunity to make a lot of money if we want to. Education, at
least through high school is free and readily available too. Some of
our society chooses not to avail themselves of it.

There are poor that need help. There are poor that made their own
choices.

[Bruce]

With highschool only, your chances of making a lot of money are a lot
slimmer.

>There are poor that need help. There are poor that made their own
>choices.

For a middle class white man, it's very easy to say this.

[Hank Rogers]

Druce, I never realized you were in the lower class. Sorry; I
should have paid more attention. Hope things get better for you. At
least you're not in the US, so that's a real big plus.

P.S. Just to clarify; are you also a non-white?