OT Father's Day is SUCH A FARCE!!

[John Kuthe]

My SON never calls me anyway!!

FUCK Father's Day!! :-(

John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(

[Cindy Hamilton]

Kiss my ass, John. I never even met my father.

Cindy Hamilton

[dsi1]

My dad, my son, and I, and the rest of the clan, are going to eat at a Chinese restaurant today. If my dad's father was still alive he'd be going too.

[Dave Smith]

My son and his girlfriend came for brunch.

[graham]

> My son invited me to dinner but I'm on a soft food diet after a
periodontal procedure so I turned it down. I really don't give a damn
about Hallmark Holidays anyway and if either of my sons forgot to call
me, it wouldn't bother me in the least.

[jmcquown]

It's clear John is running out of things to shout about. He doesn't
have a date with the woman from the bank. Birthday has come and gone.
Gotta post something! Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
changed it up a bit. Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".

I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:30:50 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Yeah, but it was Father's Day, not Son's Day.

[Dave Smith]

I have been seeing a lot of Kuthe's rants in other people's responses to
him, but I have not seen a single mention of him having a son until this
whining about his son never calling, and not calling on Fathers Day.
Having seen all his other rants I can imagine why his son puts some
distance between them. The personality that he presents here would be a
real relationship killer. Then there is the nature/nurture issue.
Whether bipolar problems are passed in in the genes or a child learns
from the family dynamics, the kid would have a few strikes against him.
A better father would have asked questions of himself or his therapist
about how to improve his relationship with his son.

My father was a tough nut to crack. He was a very competent man who
could work with his hands and administer projects and programs, but he
lacked social skills. I know that he loved me, my mother and my
brothers, but he never said as much. When I had a son I thought I could
and should do better at communicating that with my son. I promised
myself that I would never let my relationship with him sour. I would
choose my words carefully in order not to create a schism, and if one
were to occur, I would do whatever I had to in order to mend the situation.

I am happy with the way things worked out. He is now 41, has a secure
job that pays well, a wonderful girlfriend and owns his own home. He
calls several times a week and visits regularly. The two of them came
here for Fathers Day and he cooked brunch for us. It's not enough to do
things out of love and concern. People need to be told that you love
them and care for them.


He is now 41, has found work that he enjoys and that pays well. He has
a wonderful girlfriend. He calls regularly

[Bruce]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:06:00 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

<snip, too long as usual>

>When I had a son I thought I could
>and should do better at communicating that with my son. I promised
>myself that I would never let my relationship with him sour. I would
>choose my words carefully in order not to create a schism, and if one
>were to occur, I would do whatever I had to in order to mend the situation.
>
>I am happy with the way things worked out. He is now 41, has a secure
>job that pays well, a wonderful girlfriend and owns his own home. He
>calls several times a week and visits regularly. The two of them came
>here for Fathers Day and he cooked brunch for us. It's not enough to do
>things out of love and concern. People need to be told that you love
>them and care for them.
>
>
> He is now 41, has found work that he enjoys and that pays well. He has
>a wonderful girlfriend. He calls regularly

Let's all pull out our lighters and celebrate Dave Smith's wonderful
son who proves that pettiness can skip a generation!

[John Kuthe]

I called my son and left him a Vmail, AND HE CALLED ME BACK!

First time for everything! ;-)

John Kuthe...

[Ophelia]

"jmcquown" wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...

==

Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
Father's day:( I can understand that.

Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?

[Ophelia]

"John Kuthe" wrote in message
news:312a2fee-205d-4c1e...@googlegroups.com...

===

Well I am very pleased you were able to speak to him.

[Gary]

Ophelia wrote:
>
> Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
> Father's day:( I can understand that.

Both of my daughters sent emails for the day. They know I hate
phone calls and even if I didn't...I'm rarely around to hear the
phone ring so they always (in the past) had to leave a message.

Funny....my daughter said something like, "you are the greatest
Dad ever." I wrote her back laughing and said, "Yes...I'm
definitely the best Dad you ever had." ;)

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5D07A81E...@att.net...

==

LOL yes, it is the contact that is important:)

[tert in seattle]

I called my dad - he loves to talk on the phone

one of my kids asked why there isn't Kids' Day and I told him every
day is kids day so we got that taken care of for this year

[Ophelia]

"tert in seattle" wrote in message news:qe8e18$7g7$1...@ftupet.ftupet.com...

===

Heh, ain't that the truth:))

[dsi1]

We got kid's days on this pebble. It's 3/3 for girls and 5/5 for boys. My son was born on May 5th. That makes him an extra lucky boy.

[Jinx the Minx]

I’ll play unpopular devil’s advocate here. If our adult children refuse to
acknowledge us as parents on a day set aside for such an “honor”, what does
that say about us as a parent? Perhaps the problem isn’t the wayward child
but the wayward parent, in which case, I should hope that “disappointed”
parent takes a moment to reflect on the situation, and how to change that
situation going forward. Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a
harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.

[dsi1]

My dad always had his tales about his travels. I always admired that about him. He was also one of those silver-tongued devils and could get people to see things his way and get himself out of fixes. The Army knew this and sent him all over the Pacific to procure materials and supplies. Yesterday, at lunch, he said that when he got his pinsetter friend at the bowling alley to knock down pins from behind. Beats me how that works.

My wife always says "I love you" when talking to her brothers or sister. My guess is that white folks say that a lot. I find it kind of amusing. It's my secret little amusement. Asians don't say that kind of stuff. We also don't say stuff like "I enjoy breathing air" or "gravity - it's great!"

[Bruce]

There are also shitty children. And then there are children who just
don't care about a commercially hyped retail event like "Father's
Day".

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:12:57 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx
<jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

If I have understood correctly, Johns child was raised by his mother.
Dead beat dads are not to be commended.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 3:35:23 PM UTC-5, dsi1 wrote:
>
> My wife always says "I love you" when talking to her brothers or sister. My guess is that white folks say that a lot. I find it kind of amusing. It's my secret little amusement. Asians don't say that kind of stuff. We also don't say stuff like "I enjoy breathing air" or "gravity - it's great!"
>

I always tell my brother and sister-in-law I love them when I talk with them on
the phone. We're all getting older and we realize that and our time together
means something and we mean something to each other.

[Bruce]

RFC has a tendency to judge without enough information to do so.

[Jinx the Minx]

I remember here a few years back the local county child support office sent
Father’s Day cards to all the child support paying dads in the system
(those that pay directly to the county by arrangement, which the county
forwards to the mothers, or those who pay through garnishment). It was
intended to be some sort of encouragement to “stay involved”, by rewarding
them for paying support to their kids (nice job, dad!). Mind you, no cards
were sent to the child support receiving mothers just one month prior. You
know, the ones actually taking care of the kids 24-7. Positively shameful.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:58:47 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>

What do you mean? I qualified it with whether I understood correctly,
since he lost his jobs etc until such a time as he inherited money
from his father, how was it going for his ex?

[dsi1]

That's is no doubt true. Any call one makes could be the last to that person. Better yet - never end a call on a bad/angry note. That's just good, karma sense. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D4rDlyXZqE

[Bruce]

What do we know? Maybe his ex left him and moved interstate with the
child, thus becoming the only parent to raise the child. I don't know
what John's financial situation has been throughout his life.

[Bruce]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:31:56 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx

<jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

><lucreti...@fl.it> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:12:57 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx
>> <jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "jmcquown" wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...
>>>>
>>>> On 6/16/2019 2:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 1:06:39 PM UTC-4, John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Kiss my ass, John. I never even met my father.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>> It's clear John is running out of things to shout about. He doesn't
>>>> have a date with the woman from the bank. Birthday has come and gone.
>>>> Gotta post something! Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
>>>> changed it up a bit. Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
>>>> Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".
>>>>
>>>> I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
>>>> Father's day:( I can understand that.
>>>>
>>>> Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

>>> I?ll play unpopular devil?s advocate here. If our adult children refuse to
>>> acknowledge us as parents on a day set aside for such an ?honor?, what does
>>> that say about us as a parent? Perhaps the problem isn?t the wayward child
>>> but the wayward parent, in which case, I should hope that ?disappointed?

>>> parent takes a moment to reflect on the situation, and how to change that

>>> situation going forward. Biology alone doesn?t make a parent. It?s a

>>> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>>
>> If I have understood correctly, Johns child was raised by his mother.
>> Dead beat dads are not to be commended.
>>
>
>I remember here a few years back the local county child support office sent
>Father’s Day cards to all the child support paying dads in the system
>(those that pay directly to the county by arrangement, which the county
>forwards to the mothers, or those who pay through garnishment). It was
>intended to be some sort of encouragement to “stay involved”, by rewarding
>them for paying support to their kids (nice job, dad!). Mind you, no cards
>were sent to the child support receiving mothers just one month prior. You
>know, the ones actually taking care of the kids 24-7. Positively shameful.

That's because women are such great people that they don't need
encouragement to look after their child. I feel another lighter moment
coming on. Cigarette lighter, that is, not lighter as in less heavy.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Thank you. Your comment on biology is appreciated. Both out (now
adult) children are adopted but both were here for Mother's Day and
Father's Day. I'm sure we were not pefect parents but the results look
good from my end.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:31:56 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx

<jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

><lucreti...@fl.it> wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:12:57 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx
>> <jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ophelia <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "jmcquown" wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...
>>>>
>>>> On 6/16/2019 2:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 1:06:39 PM UTC-4, John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Kiss my ass, John. I never even met my father.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>> It's clear John is running out of things to shout about. He doesn't
>>>> have a date with the woman from the bank. Birthday has come and gone.
>>>> Gotta post something! Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
>>>> changed it up a bit. Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
>>>> Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".
>>>>
>>>> I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
>>>> Father's day:( I can understand that.
>>>>
>>>> Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

>>> I?ll play unpopular devil?s advocate here. If our adult children refuse to
>>> acknowledge us as parents on a day set aside for such an ?honor?, what does
>>> that say about us as a parent? Perhaps the problem isn?t the wayward child
>>> but the wayward parent, in which case, I should hope that ?disappointed?

>>> parent takes a moment to reflect on the situation, and how to change that

>>> situation going forward. Biology alone doesn?t make a parent. It?s a

>>> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>>
>> If I have understood correctly, Johns child was raised by his mother.
>> Dead beat dads are not to be commended.
>>
>
>I remember here a few years back the local county child support office sent
>Father’s Day cards to all the child support paying dads in the system
>(those that pay directly to the county by arrangement, which the county
>forwards to the mothers, or those who pay through garnishment). It was
>intended to be some sort of encouragement to “stay involved”, by rewarding
>them for paying support to their kids (nice job, dad!). Mind you, no cards
>were sent to the child support receiving mothers just one month prior. You
>know, the ones actually taking care of the kids 24-7. Positively shameful.

I find it is still a broken system, as it was when my daughter now
aged 60+ was a mother expecting support from her husband. In all that
time he sent $50 for the support of two children, then 11 and 9. He
had the gall to be at work proclaiming she 'had taken him to the
cleaners' and one day when severely irritated I turned up at his work
place and announced to them that I thought they should strike if $50
which was all he had contributed, was cleaning him out. We were bitter
enemies thereafter but even as an atheist, I am willing to admit, god
got him for that with a deadly stroke at age 52 :)

[jay]

Awesome post!

[lucreti...@fl.it]

Good for you Ed, no surprises really. However there is another side.

[Bruce]

Ed's so perfect. Do you think he's secretly a woman?

[Dave Smith]

There are strange things that happen with child support. I am thinking
of a case in the news a few years back were a wealthy man was denied
custody but had to pay a fortune to his wife for child support because
she had to be able to take them to golf clubs, tennis clubs and all
those other frills that she had been accustomed to.

I used to car pool with a guy who married a woman who had a daughter
from a previous relationship. They had a child together, but later
split up. He applied for custody of the daughter. They had had a good
relationship and didn't think she would be a good mother. He was told
that he had no claim to the daughter because he was not the biological
father. However..... since he was the only father she had ever known, he
had to pay support for her.

[Bruce]

I think the only solution is for men not to have children with
bitches.

[Jinx the Minx]

Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:34:24 -0300, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:58:47 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:57:43 -0300, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I have understood correctly, Johns child was raised by his mother.
>>>> Dead beat dads are not to be commended.
>>>
>>> RFC has a tendency to judge without enough information to do so.
>>
>> What do you mean? I qualified it with whether I understood correctly,
>> since he lost his jobs etc until such a time as he inherited money
>> from his father, how was it going for his ex?
>
> What do we know? Maybe his ex left him and moved interstate with the
> child, thus becoming the only parent to raise the child. I don't know
> what John's financial situation has been throughout his life.
>

Well....you can still be a parent in your child’s life, even if the child
is far away. That’s not an excuse. Nor is not having money an excuse.
Furthermore, it’s pretty hard to move a child interstate when you share
joint custody because it’s seen as depriving the other parent of their
rights. You generally need permission both from the other parent and the
family court system in order to move.

[Jinx the Minx]

I didn’t say that at all. But, let’s be fair. Were cards sent to mothers as
primary caregivers, or even part time caregivers, or mothers who pay
support to primary caregiving fathers? No. And, since Father’s Day is
largely just a commercial holiday anyway, why spend County tax dollars on
all that postage?

[Bruce]

All things we know nothing about. That's all I'm saying.

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 02:48:43 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx

>>> Father?s Day cards to all the child support paying dads in the system

>>> (those that pay directly to the county by arrangement, which the county
>>> forwards to the mothers, or those who pay through garnishment). It was

>>> intended to be some sort of encouragement to ?stay involved?, by rewarding

>>> them for paying support to their kids (nice job, dad!). Mind you, no cards
>>> were sent to the child support receiving mothers just one month prior. You
>>> know, the ones actually taking care of the kids 24-7. Positively shameful.
>>
>> That's because women are such great people that they don't need
>> encouragement to look after their child. I feel another lighter moment
>> coming on. Cigarette lighter, that is, not lighter as in less heavy.
>>
>
>I didn’t say that at all. But, let’s be fair. Were cards sent to mothers as
>primary caregivers, or even part time caregivers, or mothers who pay
>support to primary caregiving fathers? No. And, since Father’s Day is
>largely just a commercial holiday anyway, why spend County tax dollars on
>all that postage?

I wouldn't have done it. But it wouldn't keep me awake at night
either. It's a bit of a Dave Smith problem.

[Jinx the Minx]

That’s the thing most people don’t understand about child support. It’s
supposed to provide as stable of a transition as possible for the CHILD. If
the child is accustomed to golf and tennis clubs, then they are entitled to
live the same lifestyle after divorce, not bare bones basic needs. Most
people don’t understand that concept and view it as the receiving parent
living high off the hog or taking advantage of the paying spouse. The
amount parents (male or female) are required to pay is generally calculated
as a set percentage of income, and both parents’ salaries are taken into
consideration, not just one. So if you make 6 figures and your ex makes 5,
you’re going to have to pay a lot to ensure your children can continue to
live as they did while married.

[Cindy Hamilton]

I have relatives I don't love (or barely know). There's no assumption
that one loves one's relatives.

I'm getting to the age where "gravity - it sucks".

Cindy Hamilton

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:32:59 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

My daughter was not a bitch but she had every right to expect a
modicum of money from him, she was working hard but money was in short
supply for the extra things for the children. Suffice to say a few
years later she remarried and is still happily married to him, he is
an excellent step father, they think the world of him.

[Bruce]

Men often get shafted when it comes to contact with the children after
a divorce. Deadbeat men are assholes, but women can be controlling
bitches.

[Gary]

Bruce wrote:
> Men often get shafted when it comes to contact with the children after
> a divorce. Deadbeat men are assholes, but women can be controlling
> bitches.

All is true. But women can be deadbeat assholes too. Society
doesn't seem to realize that. My wife and I split when our
daughter was in 2nd grade. Wife didn't want her so there was no
custody conflict there. I raised her by myself all her growing
years and I willingly took that on. Never got one penny of child
support ever. Ex-wife always talked about how she was so poor,
yet she lived in a nice neighborhood, drove a mercedes car and
always ate at the best restaurants. Her job was paid tax free so
she didn't have any income to show.

I just let it go and didn't argue. I was so happy to have the
daughter 24/7 and not be an absentee dad.

Women always bitch and groan about no child support. I never got
any so I just dealt with it. It's always about the poor women,
never a thought about the men in the same situation. Society is
still very biased.

[Ophelia]

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news:qe9u9a$shj$1...@dont-email.me...

====

Exactly as it should be! Why should the children be punished when it
is the parents that are at war.

[Ophelia]

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news:qe8s88$22i$1...@dont-email.me...

Ophelia <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown" wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...
>

> On 6/16/2019 2:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 1:06:39 PM UTC-4, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>>
>>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>>
>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>>
>> Kiss my ass, John. I never even met my father.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
> It's clear John is running out of things to shout about. He doesn't
> have a date with the woman from the bank. Birthday has come and gone.
> Gotta post something! Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
> changed it up a bit. Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
> Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".
>
> I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?
>

> Jill
>
> ==
>
> Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
> Father's day:( I can understand that.
>
> Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>
>
>

I’ll play unpopular devil’s advocate here. If our adult children refuse to
acknowledge us as parents on a day set aside for such an “honor”, what does
that say about us as a parent? Perhaps the problem isn’t the wayward child
but the wayward parent, in which case, I should hope that “disappointed”

parent takes a moment to reflect on the situation, and how to change that

situation going forward. Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a

harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.

====

I could never disagree with that!

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:27:38 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>

Your true side is showing now. She did allow them to go with him on
weekends but it always wound up on Sunday night with her son calling
to say she would have to drive over and get them because 'Dad didn't
have any money for gas' - many moons later I mentioned that to my
granddaughter and she told me she was smacked by him because he showed
her there was no money in his pocket and she had said 'but you have
plenty in your wallet' !

He also played nasty tricks, I purchased their jeans for school in
September (to help my daughter out) and the first weekend they were
there with him he cut the legs off to make shorts because it was warm,
it never seemed to bother him that the people he hurt the most, in the
end, was the kids.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

You are not allowing for the fact that stats show that women, still to
this day, make less money for the same jobs so the going is harder. My
daughter made it through with help from us and later in her own right
but it sure made it more tough on the kids. They understand now and
have a low opinion of their dead father and rightly so.

It can be so different with joint custody and two people who will
remain working together for the benefit of the kids they created
instead of using them as weapons. Suffice to say, his brother my
grandchildrens uncle always comes to family do's, we don't talk about
his brother but he feels negatively about him too.

[Gary]

Ophelia wrote:

>
> "Jinx the Minx" wrote:
> you’re going to have to pay a lot to ensure your children can continue to
> live as they did while married.
>
> ====
>
> Exactly as it should be! Why should the children be punished when it
> is the parents that are at war.

I disagree. When in a tragic divorce with children, all need to
make sacrifices. No one will continue to live as they did.
Children adapt well to changes just as much as the adults. My
daughter did and she turned out fine.

[Gary]

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Jinx the Minx" wrote:

> Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a
> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>
> ====
>
> I could never disagree with that!

My stepdaugher still considers me her dad. I like that.

[Gary]

lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
> You are not allowing for the fact that stats show that women, still to
> this day, make less money for the same jobs so the going is harder.

You are showing the typical society bias. Men can make more money
so they don't need any child support. The women can just run off
free with no responsibilities but men that do that are rats. I
made many sacrifices in order to pay it all myself. I don't
regret what I did but it was necessary.

Even a little help would have been nice. I got none. Maybe quit
being such a feminist and consider both sides of the coin. It
works both ways, at least to a degree.

As a mother, how would you see it if your married son got
divorced, kept the kids, and no child support at all from his ex?
Is that ok, in your mind? If women want so bad to be equal, make
it equal.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:12:46 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:

>lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> You are not allowing for the fact that stats show that women, still to
>> this day, make less money for the same jobs so the going is harder.
>
>You are showing the typical society bias. Men can make more money

NO that is not what I meant at all. My daughter worked her butt off
but the man at the next desk did less but was paid more.

>so they don't need any child support. The women can just run off
>free with no responsibilities but men that do that are rats. I
>made many sacrifices in order to pay it all myself. I don't
>regret what I did but it was necessary.

No I never suggested women who leave their kids should have a
different set of rules, they are fewer than men, but all the same
things apply.

>
>Even a little help would have been nice. I got none. Maybe quit
>being such a feminist and consider both sides of the coin. It
>works both ways, at least to a degree.


>
>As a mother, how would you see it if your married son got
>divorced, kept the kids, and no child support at all from his ex?
>Is that ok, in your mind? If women want so bad to be equal, make
>it equal.

When my son divorced I made bloody sure he paid appropriately for his
daughter, both she and her mother could tell you that!!

[Dave Smith]

Then maybe the custody should have gone to the person who was providing
the money to pay for those things instead of defaulting to the mother
who is more interested in hanging out at the clubs than raising the
children.

Most
> people don’t understand that concept and view it as the receiving parent
> living high off the hog or taking advantage of the paying spouse. The
> amount parents (male or female) are required to pay is generally calculated
> as a set percentage of income, and both parents’ salaries are taken into
> consideration, not just one. So if you make 6 figures and your ex makes 5,
> you’re going to have to pay a lot to ensure your children can continue to
> live as they did while married.
>

I should have added that this support was in addition to the substantial
alimony. I am not sure, in this day and age, why an ex is obligated to
support their former partner. They do it throughout their relationship,
but IMO when the relationship is over the financial support should end
too. I also wonder about "palimony" that is awarded when people leave
long term common law relationships. If people choose to live together
without the formalities and obligations of marriage they should not
expect those benefits to extend to them.

[Gary]

lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
> When my son divorced I made bloody sure he paid appropriately for his
> daughter, both she and her mother could tell you that!!

But what if your son had kept the daughter and raised her by
himself? Equal support from the ex-wife? Remember, you do want
equality, right? Would you have made sure that she paid him
appropriately? I hope so if you are really an equality advocate.

[Jinx the Minx]

Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> "Jinx the Minx" wrote:

>> Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a

>> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>>
>> ====
>>
>> I could never disagree with that!
>
> My stepdaugher still considers me her dad. I like that.
>

That’s awesome, Gary! BTW, have you seen the newest Budweiser commercial
paying homage to stepdads on Father’s Day? It’ll bring tears to your eyes.

[Jinx the Minx]

I never understand these people that think all of a sudden kids shouldn’t
get to go on vacation, or to restaurants, or live in a home that provides
them their own bedroom. And my personal favorite, if the receiving parent
buys a new car, they must be buying it with all that child support (not
their own money), and not for the benefit of the kids that need reliable,
safe transportation to school, to daycare so the parent can work, etc.

[Jinx the Minx]

I’ll tell you, if a woman puts her career on hold, or otherwise never had
extended education and little work experience because she stayed at home to
be homemaker, divorce can be financially devastating. Alimony isn’t a
forever thing—it’s meant to bridge that gap between being mostly
unemployable outside the home to finding sustaining employment or education
to get better employed. Alimony is rarely ordered by the courts, and is
generally limited to situations wherein there is an extraordinary gap
between his and hers incomes. Child support isn’t alimony, and alimony
isn’t child support.

Further, if the courts awarded custody to the parent with the lesser
income, then there was clearly evidence to not award custody to the
“richer” parent. Perhaps that rich dad you speak of travelled often, or
was a playboy, or had addiction issues, or simply wanted the freedom that
comes with no children, no wife, and excessive income.

[Jinx the Minx]

Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> "Jinx the Minx" wrote:

>> you’re going to have to pay a lot to ensure your children can continue to

That’s very true Gary, but there isn’t a need to throw a privileged kid
into a life barely subsisting above poverty when the non-custodial parent
can clearly afford to not make that happen. That is the point. That’s what
the courts try to ensure when they step in and order these “huge” child
support settlements. They are equalizing the financial playing field for
the benefit of the child.

[Dave Smith]

Good luck with that. It's funny how when a couple divorces everyone
hears about how rotten their child's or friends ex is the worse SOB in
the world but their child/friend is never at fault.

There is the odd exception. I became friends with one of my professors
who had married one of my classmates. He was a nice guy. He was drop
dead good looking. She was always nice to me but she was a bit of a
bitch around him, and she used her looks and her wily ways to steal
other people husbands. I had also become friends with her brother. He
and I used play guitar together weekly. I later met the other sister
in a book club I was in. After their split, brother and the other
sister remained good friends. The wife of my jamming buddy and the
prod's new wife even started a business together. They dreaded their
sister's visits.

After having taken up and moved in with two different married men she
found religion. They were non practicing Jews, but the last guy she
hooked up with was an Orthodox Jew. She started dressing the part, and
when she came to visit she would bring plastic spoons and dishes because
they didn't keep kosher.

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-06-18 11:01 a.m., Jinx the Minx wrote:

> Ophelia <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Exactly as it should be! Why should the children be punished when it
>> is the parents that are at war.
>>
> I never understand these people that think all of a sudden kids shouldn’t
> get to go on vacation, or to restaurants, or live in a home that provides
> them their own bedroom. And my personal favorite, if the receiving parent
> buys a new car, they must be buying it with all that child support (not
> their own money), and not for the benefit of the kids that need reliable,
> safe transportation to school, to daycare so the parent can work, etc.

It wasn't like these kids were left needy. I just looked up another
one. Income had been sporadic during their marriage. The wife was a
marketing director, so she was doing okay and claimed that at times she
had to support him. He started doing better after they divorced. He had
inherited gold stock options and did very well with his investments.
He fought her support demands because he thought she was seeking
exorbitant child support for their one child so that she could benefit
personally. She was awarded $31,015 per months.

[Dave Smith]

What is a woman does not put her career on hold? What is the woman is
just a gold digger who married well?

>

[Ed Pawlowski]

In theory you are correct, but in practice, it does not always work that
way.

In real life the situation is fluid and you adapt. What if dad, through
no fault of his own is out of work? The next job he finds pays 80% of
the former job? If a family is together, they adapt and change
lifestyle. Real life is that way.

I know of two cases where that happened to a divorced couple. The court
did not care, just pay up. In one case the father finally got a break
but had a lot of lawyer costs to do it.

Plenty of abuse going on both by spouses and courts.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 8:13:29 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> >
> > You are not allowing for the fact that stats show that women, still to
> > this day, make less money for the same jobs so the going is harder.
>
> You are showing the typical society bias. Men can make more money
> so they don't need any child support.
>

Nobody but you said men don't need child support because they make more money.
The non-custodial parent needs to pay child support, period. But generally,
men do make more money than women.

>
> The women can just run off
> free with no responsibilities but men that do that are rats.
>

Either one that runs off and does not meet their responsibilities is a rat.

>
> Even a little help would have been nice. I got none.
>

That's a two-way street. Gary is not the only parent who never got a dime
from their ex for child support.

>
> Maybe quit
> being such a feminist and consider both sides of the coin. It
> works both ways, at least to a degree.
>

Maybe quit being such a chauvinist and consider both sides of the coin. It

works both ways, at least to a degree.
>
> As a mother, how would you see it if your married son got
> divorced, kept the kids, and no child support at all from his ex?
>

She saw exactly what you are talking with her _daughter._

>
> Is that ok, in your mind? If women want so bad to be equal, make
> it equal.
>

Is that ok, in your mind? I don't know about custody laws where you live,
but here men have just the same right and opportunity to have full custody
of their children as women do. They also have the same right to child support
as women do. But just like women, they have to go to court and constantly
fight sometimes to even get a dime out of their ex.

[graham]

On 2019-06-18 10:41 a.m., itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 8:13:29 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>> You are not allowing for the fact that stats show that women, still to
>>> this day, make less money for the same jobs so the going is harder.
>>
>> You are showing the typical society bias. Men can make more money
>> so they don't need any child support.
>>
> Nobody but you said men don't need child support because they make more money.
> The non-custodial parent needs to pay child support, period. But generally,
> men do make more money than women.

Only if you apply univariate analysis!!!!!!!

[graham]

There was a case in Alberta where the court-awarded child support
payments left the father NOTHING on which to live. It drove him to suicide.

[cshenk]

Agreed. I have seen it both ways. I've seen a woman with a 2.15$ an
hour job (and the kids with her) mandated to pay 'child support' to her
husband. I've seen military automatically have custody to the spouse
regardless of any issues (including child abuse by the spose with
custody) and mandated dollars regardless of spouses income (often much
higher than theirs).

[Bruce]

If I'd have been in your son's situation, nobody would have needed my
mother to interfere. Nor would she have. Sounds like terrible
helicopter mothering.

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:01:31 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:

Yes, the problem starts with the fact that women normally get custody,
so the man is already shafted. I'm not saying that's wrong, because
you can't split a child in half. But it does put the man at a big
disadvantage.

Just hope you were smart enough not to marry a bitch.

[Bruce]

Which side would that be? I wasn't talking about your daughter and son
in law, but in general.

[lucreti...@fl.it]

In her teens she returned to him because she wanted to, he did not
stop paying. I don't know about the US but here payments stop when
the child leaves school. If the child goes to university the payments
continue and are then made to the child itself.

[Jinx the Minx]

I guess unfortunately for him, the judge thought $31,000 per month was a
reasonable and fair calculatable percentage of his total income. That’s
the breaks when you all of a sudden get rich—your KIDS benefit as well, no
matter how comfortable the kids were before the windfall.

[Jinx the Minx]

It’s unfortunate when parents lose income because sometimes it can be
costly to change their support orders. People that try and settle these
things initially by “mutual agreement” without a lawyer’s assistance
oftentimes screw themselves when future changes like this happen. It’s to
both party’s benefit to have the county court system establish support. At
any time, either party can request a reviewal of the support order and the
county can make changes accordingly without any lawyers needed or court
costs. Like I’ve said, it’s a calculated formula based on percentage of
income (less accommodation for certain expenses).

[Jinx the Minx]

I guess then good for her. Apparently she outsmarted the wealthy prospect
who couldn’t see her for her real self. Shame on him.

[Jinx the Minx]

Perhaps our courts are more modernized than others. Here too, gender of the
parent makes absolutely no difference to the courts when determining
support and custody.

[Jinx the Minx]

Here in the US, payments stop at 18, unless the parents have somehow
mutually agreed to a different arrangement.

[Ophelia]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:hbWNE.59018$cZ6....@fx47.iad...

On 6/17/2019 4:12 PM, Jinx the Minx wrote:
> Ophelia <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>

>> "jmcquown" wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...
>>
>> On 6/16/2019 2:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 1:06:39 PM UTC-4, John Kuthe wrote:
>>>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>>>
>>>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>>>
>>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>>>
>>> Kiss my ass, John. I never even met my father.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> It's clear John is running out of things to shout about. He doesn't
>> have a date with the woman from the bank. Birthday has come and gone.
>> Gotta post something! Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
>> changed it up a bit. Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
>> Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".
>>
>> I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?
>>
>> Jill
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
>> Father's day:( I can understand that.
>>
>> Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>>
>>
>>
>
> I’ll play unpopular devil’s advocate here. If our adult children refuse to
> acknowledge us as parents on a day set aside for such an “honor”, what
> does
> that say about us as a parent? Perhaps the problem isn’t the wayward child
> but the wayward parent, in which case, I should hope that “disappointed”
> parent takes a moment to reflect on the situation, and how to change that
> situation going forward. Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a

> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>

Thank you. Your comment on biology is appreciated. Both out (now
adult) children are adopted but both were here for Mother's Day and
Father's Day. I'm sure we were not pefect parents but the results look
good from my end.

====

Lovely post! I think that says a lot about you and your wife:)))

Well done both of you:))

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5D08D29B...@att.net...

Bruce wrote:
> Men often get shafted when it comes to contact with the children after
> a divorce. Deadbeat men are assholes, but women can be controlling
> bitches.

All is true. But women can be deadbeat assholes too. Society
doesn't seem to realize that. My wife and I split when our
daughter was in 2nd grade. Wife didn't want her so there was no
custody conflict there. I raised her by myself all her growing
years and I willingly took that on. Never got one penny of child
support ever. Ex-wife always talked about how she was so poor,
yet she lived in a nice neighborhood, drove a mercedes car and
always ate at the best restaurants. Her job was paid tax free so
she didn't have any income to show.

I just let it go and didn't argue. I was so happy to have the
daughter 24/7 and not be an absentee dad.

Women always bitch and groan about no child support. I never got
any so I just dealt with it. It's always about the poor women,
never a thought about the men in the same situation. Society is
still very biased.

===

Your daughter is so lucky to have such a wonderful and loving father:)))

[Ophelia]

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news:qebh3r$kd6$2...@dont-email.me...

===

lol

[Ophelia]

"Jinx the Minx" wrote in message news:qeaucs$67h$2...@dont-email.me...

===

Agreed absolutely!

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5D08E1E3...@att.net...

Ophelia wrote:
>
> "Jinx the Minx" wrote:

> Biology alone doesn’t make a parent. It’s a

> harsh statement, but oftentimes the truth.
>

> ====
>
> I could never disagree with that!

My stepdaugher still considers me her dad. I like that.

===

Only because you were such a wonderful 'Dad' :))) It says it all about
you:))

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:21:14 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx
<jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>> In theory you are correct, but in practice, it does not always work that
>> way.
>>
>> In real life the situation is fluid and you adapt. What if dad, through
>> no fault of his own is out of work? The next job he finds pays 80% of
>> the former job? If a family is together, they adapt and change
>> lifestyle. Real life is that way.
>>
>> I know of two cases where that happened to a divorced couple. The court
>> did not care, just pay up. In one case the father finally got a break
>> but had a lot of lawyer costs to do it.
>>
>> Plenty of abuse going on both by spouses and courts.
>>
>
>It’s unfortunate when parents lose income because sometimes it can be
>costly to change their support orders. People that try and settle these
>things initially by “mutual agreement” without a lawyer’s assistance
>oftentimes screw themselves when future changes like this happen. It’s to
>both party’s benefit to have the county court system establish support. At
>any time, either party can request a reviewal of the support order and the
>county can make changes accordingly without any lawyers needed or court
>costs. Like I’ve said, it’s a calculated formula based on percentage of
>income (less accommodation for certain expenses).

It's really noticeable how North Americans translate every known
problem in the universe to a money matter. Two people with children
are getting a divorce and everybody goes hysterical about money.
There's more to raising a child than money. It's not even the main
thing.

[Hank Rogers]

Yoose should know that north americans are just baaaad people. The
rest of the world is OK though.

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:31:46 -0500, Hank Rogers <nos...@invalid.org>
wrote:

Well, bad... Obsessed with money to the point of hysteria.

[jmcquown]

On 6/17/2019 8:17 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "jmcquown"  wrote in message news:gyyNE.29149$Nt2....@fx29.iad...
>
> On 6/16/2019 2:36 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 1:06:39 PM UTC-4, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>>
>>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>>
>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>>
>> Kiss my ass, John.  I never even met my father.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
> It's clear John is running out of things to shout about.  He doesn't
> have a date with the woman from the bank.  Birthday has come and gone.
> Gotta post something!  Father's Day didn't get a rise earlier so he's
> changed it up a bit.  Now his son doesn't call him on Father's Day.
> Come on, everyone, all together now: "Awwww".
>
> I suppose he knows the telephone works both ways, right?
>
> Jill
>
> ==
>
>     Awww why would he not be disappointed if his son didn't call him on
> Father's day:(  I can understand that.
>
>    Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>
>

The day isn't important. If he had a close relationship with his son
he'd likely get a call. Sour grapes.

Jill

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:02:38 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

It can be crucial, think about it!

[Bruce]

Of course money can be important, especially if you don't have enough
of it. But y'all make it sound like it's the only thing that matters.

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-06-18 5:53 p.m., jmcquown wrote:

>>     Oh and why would he call his son on that special day?
>>
>>
> The day isn't important.  If he had a close relationship with his son
> he'd likely get a call.  Sour grapes.

My son went to work in Africa when he was 19 and he wrote weekly, even
though it might take two weeks for a letter to make it here. When he
came back to Canada he moved to Montreal for school and he phoned or
emailed regularly. He did the same when he lived in Toronto, and, being
closer to home, visited frequently. Now that he is living in Niagara he
calls much more often and comes by almost weekly. I don't call him as
often as he calls me, but that is because he works shifts and he does
not do personal calls at work. We have an excellent relationship, and I
think we both get credit for that. You have to learn to pick you
battles and to let some things slide.

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-06-18 5:54 p.m., lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:02:38 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>

>> It's really noticeable how North Americans translate every known
>> problem in the universe to a money matter. Two people with children
>> are getting a divorce and everybody goes hysterical about money.
>> There's more to raising a child than money. It's not even the main
>> thing.
>
> It can be crucial, think about it!

They only get hysterical about money because lawyers get involved and
push for more. It's not just the child support. There is usually alimony
on top of the support. Guys are out there working their asses off and
trying to make ends meet while they are married. When they get divorced
they end up having to support the people in the relationship that
dissolved on top of paying their own rent etc.

Of course they worry about money.They have alimony and child support in
most places in the civilized world.... even Australia.

[jmcquown]

On 6/17/2019 8:20 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "John Kuthe"  wrote in message
> news:312a2fee-205d-4c1e...@googlegroups.com...

>
> On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>> My SON never calls me anyway!!
>>
>> FUCK Father's Day!! :-(
>>
>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist and Not A Fan Of Hallmark Holidays!! :-(
>

> I called my son and left him a Vmail, AND HE CALLED ME BACK!
>
> First time for everything! ;-)
>
> John Kuthe...
>
> ===
>
>    Well I am very pleased you were able to speak to him.
>
>
>
Gee, didn't I say the telephone works both ways? :) (Email does, too.)
I'm happy for him. Now let's just hope they keep up some occasional,
rational communication.

Jill

[Jinx the Minx]

I certainly never said that there wasn’t, but clearly how much money an ex
spouse gets for child support is a big deal even outside US borders, as
evidenced here.

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 22:33:37 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx

<jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 20:21:14 -0000 (UTC), Jinx the Minx
>> <jinx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>>> In theory you are correct, but in practice, it does not always work that
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>> In real life the situation is fluid and you adapt. What if dad, through
>>>> no fault of his own is out of work? The next job he finds pays 80% of
>>>> the former job? If a family is together, they adapt and change
>>>> lifestyle. Real life is that way.
>>>>
>>>> I know of two cases where that happened to a divorced couple. The court
>>>> did not care, just pay up. In one case the father finally got a break
>>>> but had a lot of lawyer costs to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Plenty of abuse going on both by spouses and courts.
>>>>
>>>

>>> It?s unfortunate when parents lose income because sometimes it can be

>>> costly to change their support orders. People that try and settle these

>>> things initially by ?mutual agreement? without a lawyer?s assistance
>>> oftentimes screw themselves when future changes like this happen. It?s to
>>> both party?s benefit to have the county court system establish support. At

>>> any time, either party can request a reviewal of the support order and the
>>> county can make changes accordingly without any lawyers needed or court

>>> costs. Like I?ve said, it?s a calculated formula based on percentage of

>>> income (less accommodation for certain expenses).
>>
>> It's really noticeable how North Americans translate every known
>> problem in the universe to a money matter. Two people with children
>> are getting a divorce and everybody goes hysterical about money.
>> There's more to raising a child than money. It's not even the main
>> thing.
>>
>
>I certainly never said that there wasn’t, but clearly how much money an ex
>spouse gets for child support is a big deal even outside US borders, as
>evidenced here.

I didn't limit it to the US. I also included your little brother :)

[Bruce]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:29:58 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

And, regardless, let's continue to interfere and to busybody.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <emvfge1550rcfo6ms...@4ax.com>, Bruce
<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> RFC has a tendency to judge without enough information to do so.

So you're saying we're like every individual or group on Earth.
Outrageous!

leo

[Bruce]

Don't you think it's worse here? Do you judge new people in your
street in this manner?

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <fscggedrhi1rpn11k...@4ax.com>,

<lucreti...@fl.it> wrote:

> We were bitter
> enemies thereafter but even as an atheist, I am willing to admit, god
> got him for that with a deadly stroke at age 52 :)

Look at the bright side. His hatred for you, over the years, ticked his
blood pressure up just enough to stroke out. You win!

leo

[lucreti...@fl.it]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:03:22 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>

Certainly for my daughter and her two kids, only her salary was not
enough for rent, food and clothing needed for school, long before any
extras.

[Bruce]

Yes, then it's crucial.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Sometimes goes longer if the kids go to college. Not sure of the
details though.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <q3rigeptq9tmglgnl...@4ax.com>, Bruce

<br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Don't you think it's worse here? Do you judge new people in your
> street in this manner?

I do. I silently judge everybody that I come in contact with. So do you.

leo

[Bruce]

Not in such a petty, busybody way.