Tiles back on!

[John Kuthe]

https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg


Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)


John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist, Suburban Renewalist and Vegetarian

[Thomas]

What perecent is new tile?

[John Kuthe]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 1:57:26 PM UTC-5, Thomas wrote:
> What perecent is new tile?

Some. They intermixed the old and new in a very regular planned pattern. By hand!

John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist, Suburban Renewalist and very well fed Vegetarian

[Hank Rogers]

Like a patchwork quilt?

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
<johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>
>https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>
>
>Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)

I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
large house.

[jay]

Did they put bird stop on the first tile row to keep rats and birds from
nesting there? Don't see it in the photos.

[John Kuthe]

A regular planned patchwork of old and new, just slightly. After the final acid wash will be the big reveal! :-)

John Kuthe...

[John Kuthe]

Me too, but I know quality work when I see it. No not large, only 1500 sqft and now it will have a renewed red clay tile roof, which is a 100 year roof. House was completed in 1930, so just shy of 100 years on the old one.

John Kuthe...

[jay]

Yes it's a 100K+ courtesy .. a moving fee. Moving the tile out of the
way refelting and moving it back. They will use very few new tiles.

[jay]

Total bullshit. It is not a 100 year roof. The tile is may last a
hundred years the felt will not. The felt is what keeps the water out
not the tile.

[jay]

On 7/16/20 2:38 PM, John Kuthe wrote:

> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>
>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>> large house.
>
> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it.

And you no nothing about roofing or quality work or anything else for
that matter. ahahahaha

[Hank Rogers]

John Kuthe wrote:

Kuth, would you be interested in some magic beans? Only $120,000. I
guarantee they won't bring you in contact with any giants, or evil
capitalists. And they are 100% mother gaiia approved.

Act now, and I'll send you TWO bags of magic beans ... just pay
extra fee.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Not a question of size bit have you actually seen the roof? Dormers,
peaks, it is far more intricate than the typical A frame roof. Very
labor intensive. Four dormers, an peak in the front, four corners the
full length.

This roof is more complex than you will find on most large buildings,
not just banging some nails in shingles. Take a look on Google earth.

There are few roofing companies that have the ability to do work like
this. Not sure what I would do if my house but I applaud John for doing
a genuine restoration of the roof. It is a big part of the character of
the house.

[Hank Rogers]

jay wrote:
> On 7/16/20 2:38 PM, John Kuthe wrote:

>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>>
>>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>>> large house.
>>
>> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it.
>
> And you no nothing about roofing or quality work or anything else
> for that matter. ahahahaha

How dare yoose? He's a degreed, certified genuine cannabis nurse
and computer and electrical engineer ... and so much more!

In good standing with mother giaua too.

[Hank Rogers]

John Kuthe wrote:
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-5, Hank Rogers wrote:
>> John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 1:57:26 PM UTC-5, Thomas wrote:
>>>> What perecent is new tile?
>>>
>>> Some. They intermixed the old and new in a very regular planned pattern. By hand!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist, Suburban Renewalist and very well fed Vegetarian
>>>
>>
>> Like a patchwork quilt?
>
> A regular planned patchwork of old and new, just slightly. After the final acid wash will be the big reveal! :-)
>
> John Kuthe...
>

What type of acid will they use? (and what strength?)
I want to learn because I never had a tile roof. I have had leaky
roofs, so I'm watching how you make out.

I hope it works out well and you still have a little money left.

[John Kuthe]

I did a lot of roofing subcontractor research back in 2017 and an asphalt shingle roof is considered a 20 year roof, clay tile or slate a 100 year roof.

John Kuthe...

[John Kuthe]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 4:14:59 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Je�us wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> > <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
> >>
> >> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
> >
> > I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
> > large house.
> >
>
> Not a question of size bit have you actually seen the roof? Dormers,
> peaks, it is far more intricate than the typical A frame roof. Very
> labor intensive. Four dormers, an peak in the front, four corners the
> full length.
>
> This roof is more complex than you will find on most large buildings,
> not just banging some nails in shingles. Take a look on Google earth.

Old World Roofing flew a drone up there to get the final measurements

> There are few roofing companies that have the ability to do work like
> this. Not sure what I would do if my house but I applaud John for doing
> a genuine restoration of the roof. It is a big part of the character of
> the house.

Old World Roofing a business down in The Hill in the tile, concrete, etc. part of an old neighborhood of very skilled craftsmen an Old World Roofing is one:

http://www.oldworldroofingco.com/Testimonials.php

They are doing a very professional job! I saw a pickup traveling south on Kingshighway just north of the Earl Sheib on Manchester in 2017 when I was shopping for roof subcontractors and I thought "I can remember that!" and when I got home looked them up on the Internet and said "Yep! Clay Tile Roofing Professionals!" And they are!

https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg

John Kuthe...

[Dave Smith]

He knows enough that he spent a lot of money buying a house that now
needs more than $113,000 in roof repairs.

[Alex]

By hand?  Nice!  No robots on your job, eh?

[Alex]

With new tiles mixed in.  Dumb.

[Alex]

I tried to point that out to him with facts but he ignored them. They
aren't even using their best underlayment for this overpriced project.

[Alex]

Clay and slate are for decoration and for protecting the underlayment
from the sun.

[Hank Rogers]

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-07-16 4:49 p.m., jay wrote:
>> On 7/16/20 2:38 PM, John Kuthe wrote:

>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>>>
>>>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not
>>>> even a
>>>> large house.
>>>
>>> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it.
>>
>> And you no nothing about roofing or quality work or anything else
>> for that matter. ahahahaha
>
>
> He knows enough that he spent a lot of money buying a house that
> now needs more than $113,000 in roof repairs.

Maybe, but it's in da LOO. 5 min to anywhere. Location Location
Location.

And, he grabbed it back from evil, cheap chinese!

[Sqwertz]

And bats.

-sww

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe

<johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>> >
>> >https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>
>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>> large house.
>
>Me too, but I know quality work when I see it. No not large, only 1500 sqft and now it will have a renewed red clay tile roof, which is a 100 year roof. House was completed in 1930, so just shy of 100 years on the old one.

In my experience, paying a premium is no guarantee of quality. But I
assume they'll do a good job of it. I'm not in the same country, but
in all seriousness just can't see the value in spending so much on a
roof for what is a small and unremarkable house (that's not intended
to be an insult, nothing wrong with such a house). Anyway, it's your
money...

[Sqwertz]

And the old tiles have all sort of cracks tiny cracks in them from
hail and moisture contraction/expansion. They won't last another 20
years without replacing them all.

-sw

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:14:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Je?us wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>
>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>> large house.
>>
>
>Not a question of size bit have you actually seen the roof? Dormers,
>peaks, it is far more intricate than the typical A frame roof. Very
>labor intensive. Four dormers, an peak in the front, four corners the
>full length.

I've seen a few pics. I'm not in the U.S, but I'm still stunned at the
cost, irrespective of the work involved. The house looks like a fairly
typical bungalow style house, John is obviously a rare exception to be
willing to spend what is arguably more than the house itself is worth
- what would other Americans do if faced with such a sitation? I would
assume they'd go for an iron or similar material?

>This roof is more complex than you will find on most large buildings,
>not just banging some nails in shingles. Take a look on Google earth.
>
>There are few roofing companies that have the ability to do work like
>this. Not sure what I would do if my house but I applaud John for doing
>a genuine restoration of the roof. It is a big part of the character of
>the house.

It is, and it looks nice. But from an economic POV, it's not a good
move.

[Sqwertz]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:14:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> There are few roofing companies that have the ability to do work like
> this. Not sure what I would do if my house but I applaud John for doing
> a genuine restoration of the roof. It is a big part of the character of
> the house.

So are the purple porches and the odd stained glass.

=sw

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:42:21 -0600, jay <j...@mail.com> wrote:

Damn, 100K. Gone, just like that. You could have a hell of a good
holiday for a couple of years with that money.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Many things we buy are not worth the actual price yet we buy an
expensive dinner or bottle of wine. Same thing but on a larger scale.
The owner wants it and is willing to pay for the satisfaction of having it.

Been to an art museum? I've seen paintings worth a million bucks and
I'd pay you $10 to take out of my house.

[Janet]

John, the bargeboard above the top window is in a terrible rotten
state. Before retiling the roof, you should have had that wood
replaced, or cleaned off and repainted.

It still needs to be done, but now someone will have to walk on the
new tiles and will probably drip paint on them too.

Janet UK

[Janet]

In article <f83989ff-e27c-40da...@googlegroups.com>,
johnk...@gmail.com says...

No, John. The original tiles you've allowed them to refit, are at the
end of their 100 year life, that's why so many of them became
weatherworn and absorbent, broke or leaked.

For what they charged you the roof company should have fitted a
whole roof of new tiles throughout. THEN you'd have a hundred-year tiled
roof.

What you've got now is a roof where the original old tiles will
continue to deteriorate and fail, and need regular attention, repairs
and replacements for the rest of your life.

The roofing company must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Janet UK

[Bruce]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:29:31 +0100, Janet <nob...@home.org> wrote:

>In article <f83989ff-e27c-40da...@googlegroups.com>,
>johnk...@gmail.com says...
>>

>> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it. No not large, only 1500 sqft and now it will have a renewed red clay tile roof, which is a 100 year roof. House was completed in 1930, so just shy of 100 years on the old one.
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
> No, John. The original tiles you've allowed them to refit, are at the
>end of their 100 year life, that's why so many of them became
>weatherworn and absorbent, broke or leaked.
>
> For what they charged you the roof company should have fitted a
>whole roof of new tiles throughout. THEN you'd have a hundred-year tiled
>roof.
>
> What you've got now is a roof where the original old tiles will
>continue to deteriorate and fail, and need regular attention, repairs
>and replacements for the rest of your life.
>
> The roofing company must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Do you also have advice for people who want to start a B&B?

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 10:43:00 PM UTC-4, Jeßus wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:14:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
> >On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Je?us wrote:
> >> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> >> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
> >>>
> >>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
> >>
> >> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
> >> large house.
> >>
> >
> >Not a question of size bit have you actually seen the roof? Dormers,
> >peaks, it is far more intricate than the typical A frame roof. Very
> >labor intensive. Four dormers, an peak in the front, four corners the
> >full length.
>
> I've seen a few pics. I'm not in the U.S, but I'm still stunned at the
> cost, irrespective of the work involved. The house looks like a fairly
> typical bungalow style house, John is obviously a rare exception to be
> willing to spend what is arguably more than the house itself is worth
> - what would other Americans do if faced with such a sitation? I would
> assume they'd go for an iron or similar material?

Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
$5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).

Cindy Hamilton

[Gary]

John Kuthe wrote:
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>
> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)

Time to tell us a story, John.

In addition to restoring your roof, looks like they are
restoring your dormers too. I do think it's a good idea
right while they're up there.
They've taken off the shingles and put new felt paper
on the sides. They've also scraped
off all the peeling paint on the white trim up there.

Rather than repaint that top trim, vinyl siding would
be smart to use. That way, nobody will ever need to
go up on your roof again. Looks like your windows there
have already been replaced with vinyl or aluminum
years ago.

Is this included in the contract price or does that
come under the "additional work" part?

[Janet]

In article <vn8QG.95840$%p.3...@fx33.iad>, e...@snet.xxx says...

>
> On 7/16/2020 10:42 PM, Je?us wrote:

> > It is, and it looks nice. But from an economic POV, it's not a good
> > move.
> >
>
> Many things we buy are not worth the actual price yet we buy an
> expensive dinner or bottle of wine.

That's fine for those who can afford it. Not for someone who
emptied their bank account for one meal, leaving nothing to buy food
with for the next month.

Janet UK

[Janet]

In article <reqe3f$gnc$1...@dont-email.me>, j...@mail.com says...

>
> On 7/16/20 2:30 PM, Je?us wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
> > <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
> >>

> >> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
> >

> > I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
> > large house.
> >
>

> Yes it's a 100K+ courtesy .. a moving fee. Moving the tile out of the
> way refelting and moving it back. They will use very few new tiles.

They've reused 100 year old clay tiles. 100 years is the lifespan of
a clay tile. John has already seen many of those 100 yr old clay tiles
weather, fracture, become brittle, leak; but he's dim enough to believe
the worn out tiles are now newborn and will last another 100 years.

Thats a bit like a heart surgeon implanting a 90 year patient
"Good news; the donor heart is 90 years old so it's good for
another 90 years".

Janet UK

[Gary]

I just wrote him about that, Janet. I'm assuming that's
part of the job...or extra's that they told him about.

Interesting...Never heard that called "bargeboard" before.
Must be a UK term. In the usa, the top board is usually
referred to as the "facia" the entire top would be called
the "cornice"

I've just always referred to it all as the top trim
around the dormer.

[Gary]

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
> ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
> U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
> $5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).

Not for $5000. Maybe for 15 or 20. Those tiles could be saved
for other jobs that Old World does, so maybe a cost reduction
to let them have them.

They probably specialize in restoring historic house roofs,
not a plain old house like John has.

My father had an old giant Black Walnut tree removed
from his yard once. They wanted several thousand dollars
to cut it down and remove the wood.

Dad knew the value of Black Walnut wood though. He bartered
with them and ended up getting the tree and wood removed,
and they got to keep the wood.

An equal trade. No money exchanged.

Like you, I think I would have opted for the asphalt shingles.
They do come in a nice dark red too. Maybe only 20 year
life but a big savings now and in the long term.

And not new copper gutters either. Those are also only
for historic houses.

[jay]

On 7/17/20 5:01 AM, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
>> ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
>> U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
>> $5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).
>
> Not for $5000. Maybe for 15 or 20.

Yes. 5K would be a dog house with bottom of the line 3 tab shingle.
Recently spent 18k on a not so large one and most all of y'all chipped
in. Roofing contractors pay an exorbitant amount for insurance just like
tree trimmers.

[jay]

On 7/16/20 8:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> It is, and it looks nice. But from an economic POV, it's not a good
>> move.
>>
>
> Many things we buy are not worth the actual price yet we buy an
> expensive dinner or bottle of wine.  Same thing but on a larger scale.
> The owner wants it and is willing to pay for the satisfaction of having it.
>
> Been to an art museum?  I've seen paintings worth a million bucks and
> I'd pay you $10 to take out of my house.

Kuthe doesn't have expensive dinner or wine money. He is gilding a pig
and can't afford it. When the property goes to tax lien foreclosure
someone will get a nice roof though. People who buy expensive art have
the wherewithal to do so. There is zero wherewithal in this case.

[Sqwertz]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:01:13 -0400, Gary wrote:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
>> ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
>> U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
>> $5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).
>
> Not for $5000. Maybe for 15 or 20. Those tiles could be saved
> for other jobs that Old World does, so maybe a cost reduction
> to let them have them.

That roof with a 30-year shingle (medium quality) would cost no more
than $6,500. The used tiles would be taken to a tile yard to do
repairs or small jobs. OWR probably has a stash of their own. Even
those "new" tiles they used for this job aren't new. They're used
tiles that came from other tear-offs.

> And not new copper gutters either. Those are also only
> for historic houses.

Copper was a really cheap metal way back when, cost less than
aluminum. That's why we made pennies out of it. Nowadays it cost
400X times more than that. The gutters alone on John's house cost
more than a 30-year shingle tear-off/re-roof with aluminum gutters.
Or 3 years worth of rental payments from 1 tenant.

And you don't make gutters and downspouts out of it then paint them
black (duh).

Net up he's gotta repair the driveway. All the runoff from his
neighbors house and his drains into his driveway (not even
splashblocks) and into his foundation, which has also created small
sinkholes in his driveway and he has cracks in several spots. And
probably more now that's they've driven roofing trucks back there.
I'm sure he signed a driveway disclaimer as part of the job.

-sw

[Sqwertz]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:09:50 +0100, Janet wrote:

> John, the bargeboard above the top window is in a terrible rotten
> state. Before retiling the roof, you should have had that wood
> replaced, or cleaned off and repainted.

I looked at that And I think it may just need some new stain. They
look like solid 5x5's, but probably cracked if they're that old.

-sw

[Sqwertz]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 10:29:31 +0100, Janet wrote:

> In article <f83989ff-e27c-40da...@googlegroups.com>,
> johnk...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>> >
>>> >https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>>
>>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>>> large house.
>>
>> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it. No not large, only 1500 sqft and now it will have a renewed red clay tile roof, which is a 100 year roof. House was completed in 1930, so just shy of 100 years on the old one.
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
> No, John. The original tiles you've allowed them to refit, are at the
> end of their 100 year life, that's why so many of them became
> weatherworn and absorbent, broke or leaked.

Which is why you don't use clay tile in central TX. We usually have
at least 1X/year incident where it goes from 80'sF to 30's in less
than 36 hours w/sleet and rain. That wreaks havoc on tile.

> The roofing company must be laughing all the way to the bank.

For sure. I even sent them a threatening letter way back when this
started claiming to be a member of his family and that's he's not
exactly unmedicated and sane.

<clickety click>

OK, it's looks like I implied I was an attorney of some sort. As
well as the Guiness Book World Record holder of the number of
Mcdonald's Big Macs eaten! (Don Gorske).


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From: "Don Gorske" <Dan.G...@qualityservice.com>
To: con...@oldworldroofingco.com
Subject: Ridiculous contract for repair of roofing on Bellerive
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 20:11:47 +0100
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At the request of the family, John Kuthe's mental status is
currently being reviewed by the courts. If he is deemed mentally
unfit to care for his estate, the first thing that will be reviewed
will be if and to what extent Old World Roofing Company knowingly
took advantage of a mentally ill person by offering to fix his roof
for more than house itself is worth. This is not a fair contract
and the family WILL sue to recoup all the losses incurred by your
actions. To save everybody a lot of time and trouble, we highly
advise that you rethink your contract and scope of work, IF ANY.

-DG

See? I use my superpowers for good AND evil. I'm not sure how
Spiderman will see that, but fuck him.

They never got back to me, FWIW. Maybe they looked up who "Don
Gorske" was <shrug>. That was sent right after john said he paid
the $28K deposit; which is about what this job should have cost
(maybe $37K with the new gutters).

I'm wondering who's getting the old gutters? They're probably worth
$400+

-sw

[jmcquown]

That's a great analogy, Janet! :)

Jill

[jmcquown]

On 7/16/2020 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Been to an art museum?  I've seen paintings worth a million bucks and
> I'd pay you $10 to take out of my house.

You mean like Jackson Pollock paintings? ;)

Jill

[Sqwertz]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:42:08 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> Which is why you don't use clay tile in central TX. We usually have
> at least 1X/year incident where it goes from 80'sF to 30's in less
> than 36 hours w/sleet and rain. That wreaks havoc on tile.

I should say "clay or concrete tile".

We have plenty of places with lightweight and stronger
synthetic/composite tile.

John's house was not historically, architecturally, or culturally
significant to warrant this level of restoration.

Unless he becomes a serial killer. Or assassinates Trump (is Trump
campaigning within Leaf-range of Bel Nor this year?_he going to
Missouri this year?)

-sw

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 7:01:11 AM UTC-4, Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
> > ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
> > U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
> > $5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).
>
> Not for $5000. Maybe for 15 or 20. Those tiles could be saved
> for other jobs that Old World does, so maybe a cost reduction
> to let them have them.

Most people would call Mr. Roof, who would throw those tiles off the
roof into a dumpster.

My $5000 considered that prices are probably lower where he is. ISTR
I paid $3000 to re-roof my 1200 sq ft ranch. No dormers, one
cross gable, and a very modest slope (which I cannot recall at the
moment).

Cindy Hamilton

[Mike Duffy]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:11:54 -0600, jay wrote:


> Recently spent $18 K [...] and most all of y'all chipped in.

Wow, I must have missed that! I need to do a roofing job any day now, and
would be extremely interested in how to make the rabble here help pay.

[Sheldon Martin]

There are several types of asphalt shingles, from cheapos with a 15
year warranty to archetectural asphalt with a 25-50 year warranty.
When I bought this house it had recently installed 50 year warranty
archetextural asphalt shingles.... after about 20 years they still
look brand new. Kootchie is mentally retarded to pay more than that
entire house is worth for a roof REPAIR that will likely well outlive
him, except for a hail storm that those tiles won't survive.
There are many styles of archetextural tiles and many companies that
produce them:
https://www.iko.com/na/learning-center/learn-about-roofing/what-are-architectural-shingles/

>And not new copper gutters either. Those are also only
>for historic houses.

Copper gutters and leaders turn splotchy green (verdigris) and won't
look good on all houses... also quite pricey. I recently had new
gutters and leaders installed because those that were there were too
small to carry the water from such a large roof... those were only 3
1/2", I had 5" installed, easily carries all the water from heavy
rains... all the schmutz too, winds blow pine cones onto the roof from
50' away, now they wash down the 5" leaders. BTW putting those
screens over gutters is a waste, then you'll need to constantly clean
the screens, which requires removing and replacing.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 10:02:32 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> BTW putting those
> screens over gutters is a waste, then you'll need to constantly clean
> the screens, which requires removing and replacing.

Ours don't. Twice a year we attach the snorkel that my husband made out
of Schedule 80 PVC to the leaf blower and walk around the house getting
the maple tree seeds (spring) or leaves (fall) off the gutter screens.
Much easier than cleaning 10x the debris out of the gutters.

Cindy Hamilton

[Sheldon Martin]

Blowing schmutz is still a lot of work... larger gutters solves the
cleaning problem completely, and ended the water overflowing the small
gutters during heavy rains.

[Gary]

Come on people. Everyone needs to clean out their gutters once or
twice a year. If you have pine trees near the house, do it 3
times a year. Pine cones aren't the problem, it's the needles
that constantly fall.

[Gary]

I have no doubt that roofing liability insurance is high.
Especially when they do a flat roof. One little missed spot
could cause much damage below and inside.

Talk about high insurance. I read that just a GP doctor
paid about 100K per year for insurance 30 years ago.
I don't doubt it.

[jay]

I think the big risk is someone falling off. Personal injury can cost
them kagillions.

[Thomas]

On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 5:49:44 AM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
> ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
> U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
> $5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).
>
> Cindy Hamilton

If you did not type that I was going to.
I had new architectural blue shingles last year with rip and 15 sheets of ply $4700.
Small 1000 sq ranch. Looks great, 30 year. I'll be gone by then.
My last 30 lasted 20. I'll still probably be fertilizer.
At 113k I would off myself the next day.

[Taxed and Spent]

I would off you for half that.

[Thomas]

Send me 56.5k and you can try.

[Dave Smith]

I installed gutter guards in my eaves troughing years ago. I no longer
have to clean them. I used to have to clean my gutters 2-3 times a
year, and I hated it. I have a lot of big trees on and near my property
and the eaves would be full. That water in there is cold in the fall,
and I usually had to do it at least twice in the fall and then again in
the spring.

One year I was climbing up to do the eaves on the overhang by the living
room. I thought the ladder had been well positioned but it kicked out
and down we went. One leg slid down between two rungs and then my other
leg hit the ladder and pushed it against the shin on the other leg. I
thought I had broken my leg. Four hours in the ER. As soon as my leg
was well enough to climb ladders again I investing in the Allguard.

When a tree fell on my house and I got as new roof, eaves trough, fascia
and soffit courtesy of the insurance company, I pointed out that I had
had Alluguard on the gutters, so they replaced that too.

[Dave Smith]

If you have a low pitch roof it is pretty easy to clean out gutters by
walking along the roof with a leaf blower and blast the crap out of
them. The U shaped attachments work, but a lot of that crap falls sown
on top of you and it can be gross.

[Dave Smith]

On 2020-07-17 10:49 a.m., Gary wrote:

> jay wrote:

> I have no doubt that roofing liability insurance is high.
> Especially when they do a flat roof. One little missed spot
> could cause much damage below and inside.
>
> Talk about high insurance. I read that just a GP doctor
> paid about 100K per year for insurance 30 years ago.
> I don't doubt it.

I don't doubt it. A good friend of mine was out family doctor and our
son was the last baby he delivered before he moved down to Texas in
1977. He had done a lot of ob/gyn work here and delivered a lot of
babies. He stopped delivering babies down there because the insurance
was just too expensive.

[Dave Smith]

A have a neighbour who has a window and siding business and did small
roofing jobs too. He used to hire Stewart, the son of the woman who
used to live across the street from us. Stewart had some mental health
issues and did a lot of self medicating with alcohol and pot. Bill had
to fire Stewart because he had fallen of roofs so often. He figured on
day he would really get hurt.

[Sheldon Martin]

With larger gutters needles are no problem, they wash right out.

[Sheldon Martin]

Allowing a contractor to climb on your roof it's entirely at their
peril... just don't invite your neighbor on your roof.

[jay]

Maybe. When something happens that looks like a pay day everyone with a
pocket gets fired upon by the lawyers.

Anyway I was referring to a roofing contractors insurance not home
owners insurance. Many contractors will say they are insured and they
are not. Best to get a certificate of insurance from them and also call
the insurance company involved to be sure it is in force and for how long.

[Alex]

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 14:42:21 -0600, jay wrote:

>
>> On 7/16/20 2:30 PM, Je�us wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>>> large house.
>>>
>> Yes it's a 100K+ courtesy .. a moving fee. Moving the tile out of the
>> way refelting and moving it back. They will use very few new tiles.

> And the old tiles have all sort of cracks tiny cracks in them from
> hail and moisture contraction/expansion. They won't last another 20
> years without replacing them all.
>
> -sw

His contractors are depending on that but they don't know he's broke and
underemployed.

[Alex]

Janet wrote:
> In article <f83989ff-e27c-40da...@googlegroups.com>,
> johnk...@gmail.com says...

>> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 3:30:56 PM UTC-5, Jeßus wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>>> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>>> large house.

>> Me too, but I know quality work when I see it. No not large, only 1500 sqft and now it will have a renewed red clay tile roof, which is a 100 year roof. House was completed in 1930, so just shy of 100 years on the old one.
>>
>> John Kuthe...
> No, John. The original tiles you've allowed them to refit, are at the
> end of their 100 year life, that's why so many of them became
> weatherworn and absorbent, broke or leaked.
>

> For what they charged you the roof company should have fitted a
> whole roof of new tiles throughout. THEN you'd have a hundred-year tiled
> roof.
>
> What you've got now is a roof where the original old tiles will
> continue to deteriorate and fail, and need regular attention, repairs
> and replacements for the rest of your life.

>
> The roofing company must be laughing all the way to the bank.
>

> Janet UK

They started laughing when they saw his porch, I'm sure.

[John Kuthe]

I am far from broke and I still have plenty invested to cover the whole Old World Roofing contract for $117,671+ if needed. And when I was talking with Lance the foreman and I mentioned the total amount I still have he seemed to feel I'd not need near that much to finish this contract. :-)

John Kuthe...

[Dave Smith]

It's a safe bet that they were reluctant to pick up the coins on the
driveway, or that they were careful to bend at the knees and no at the
waist.

[Hank Rogers]

Dikbreath, if yoose fell off, nobody would report it.

Just grab a shovel and clean up the mess.

[Gary]

jay wrote:

> Anyway I was referring to a roofing contractors insurance not home
> owners insurance. Many contractors will say they are insured and they
> are not. Best to get a certificate of insurance from them and also call
> the insurance company involved to be sure it is in force and for how long.

Yes. That's business libility insurance. Private homeowners not
so much but most condo associations require proof. I always
carried a current copy with me for looking at a job.

For employee injuries, that's covered by Workmen's Comp which
all companies are required to have. If they don't have that,
the company owner is the one to get sued.

[Sqwertz]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:16:00 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe wrote:

> I am far from broke and I still have plenty invested to cover the
> whole Old World Roofing contract for $117,671+ if needed. And
> when I was talking with Lance the foreman and I mentioned the
> total amount I still have he seemed to feel I'd not need near
> that much to finish this contract. :-)

Wait..... you told the people who are ripping you off how much money
you have left?!?!?

-sw

[jmcquown]

I don't know why you find that surprising. He blabs to everyone who
will listen about how much money he has.

Jill

[John Kuthe]

No one is ripping me off. And how much money I have left is rather personal. None of YOUR BUSINESS!

John Kuthe...

[Taxed and Spent]

I am a roofer. Will you tell me?

[John Kuthe]

Tell you what?

John Kuthe...

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:33:12 AM UTC-5, John Kuthe wrote:
>
> No one is ripping me off. And how much money I have left is rather personal. None of YOUR BUSINESS!
>
> John Kuthe...
>

How is how much money you have left personal information when you've blabbed
everything about your finances except for the account numbers???

[Taxed and Spent]

What you got to tell?

[Sqwertz]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:33:08 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe wrote:

> On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 11:05:15 AM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:16:00 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe wrote:
>>
>> Wait..... you told the people who are ripping you off how much money
>> you have left?!?!
>

> No one is ripping me off. And how much money I have left is
> rather personal. None of YOUR BUSINESS!

You told us how much you inherited and how much you've spent on
practically *everything* you've bought since your windfall. You're
broke. If you don't want us to know, then DON'T TELL US!

-sew

[Jeßus]

I guess that explains the hundreds of your posts providing those
details on a weekly basis.

[Thomas]

Pure entertainment with a recipe here and there.

[Alex]

Yet you shared it with a contractor that has an open-end contract with
you?  How much plywood/lumber did they have to replace?  It's near a
record high right now.

[Bruce]

Hey Alex, your wife called. She wants you back. She's jealous of John.

[Hank Rogers]

Good sniffin there Fruce.

[Alex]

You are the one sniffing his ass.

Pass this along to him.  He might not be here right now:

https://lbmjournal.com/lumber-prices-at-2-year-high/

[Bruce]

John Kuthe wrote:

> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>
>
> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>
>

> John Kuthe, Climate Anarchist, Suburban Renewalist and Vegetarian


Looks real nice.

[Gary]

LOL Voted funniest post of the morning today. John didn't get
your joke but I did. :)

[Sheldon Martin]

Roofers are always ripping off. I just finished ripping off some two
acres of mowing in 92ºF and 82% humidity. Even the A/C was barely
keeping up with the full mid day sun beating through the glass. And
there's no shade in that field. And I worked up a sweat climbing in
and out of that small cab picking up branches... that small cab
doesnt's hold the cool very long. But an 8' mower with A/C is still
better than a dinky 21" push mower in the hot sun. But we still do a
lot of push mowing for the close-in and edges. I can fuly understand
why people buy mini condos with full service land scaping... but
that's not for us. We don't want to hear neighbors toilets flushing,
and we enjoy our space and all our gardening.

[cshenk]

Laugh if you will but I just contracted to have a friend's wheelchair
house ramp finished off. The contractor knows me but I reiterated, 'I
expect your crew to get a living wage'. Very few start that way.

Contractor knows I am paying for it all. I expect 200$ materials (plus
labor to pickup the materials) and 500$ labor since they also have to
dig out a 42x12inch bit of dirt to 4 inches deep then slope it with
cement to the driveway. All but the digging and cement is just cutting
and nailing.

We will see.

My friend has Lupus and MS and is rapidly going wheelchair bound. High
medical bills and the base of her ramp has been not only inspected for
codespec, but was partly built BY inspectors. Her husband is a nice
guy but not handy at this sort of thing.

40 or so of us built the base and this is just the finishing parts.
For me, I can make the final payments on my 2018 Nissan Rogue, or wait
for next month to do that (next car payment due 2023) and fix it for my
friend. I chose to fix it for my friend.

[Hank Rogers]

Why not finish the job and have a nice tile roofed portico?

[Jeßus]

On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 18:07:42 -0700 (PDT), Thomas <cano...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Pure entertainment with a recipe here and there.

Yes, I guess it is.

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 02:49:39 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
<angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 10:43:00 PM UTC-4, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 17:14:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> >On 7/16/2020 4:30 PM, Je?us wrote:

>> >> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>> >> <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> https://i.postimg.cc/fbbd5ZGx/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-2.jpg
>> >>>
>> >>> https://i.postimg.cc/dt8GV5RT/Tiles-back-on-7-16-2020-1.jpg
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Courtesy of Old World Roofing, doing in the Right Way! :-)
>> >>

>> >> I still can't believe how much this is costing you, it's not even a
>> >> large house.
>> >>
>> >

>> >Not a question of size bit have you actually seen the roof? Dormers,
>> >peaks, it is far more intricate than the typical A frame roof. Very
>> >labor intensive. Four dormers, an peak in the front, four corners the
>> >full length.
>>
>> I've seen a few pics. I'm not in the U.S, but I'm still stunned at the
>> cost, irrespective of the work involved. The house looks like a fairly
>> typical bungalow style house, John is obviously a rare exception to be
>> willing to spend what is arguably more than the house itself is worth
>> - what would other Americans do if faced with such a sitation? I would
>> assume they'd go for an iron or similar material?

>
>Most Americans would replace that tile with asphalt shingles.
>ISTR that's the most common residential roofing material in the
>U.S. And the cheapest. Instead of $113,000, that job might cost
>$5000 (including getting rid of the tiles).

I know which option I'd choose.

[Alex]

Nice!

[cshenk]

I'll get the estimate around 2August. There is no rush and her husband
is flumoxed at such things. He sells cars and makes a good living but
her medical bills keep them just on the edge. Insured but not the best
of insurance as company doesn't offer better.

I want her safe. What she has now is pretty safe to use ut until the
top rails and slats along the side are added, it's not codespec to
Virginia Beach.