info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
A brief history of the tomato in Europe
191 views
Skip to first unread message
A Moose in Love
Jun 22, 2019, 10:25:46 AM6/22/19
to
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-was-feared-in-europe-for-more-than-200-years-863735/
In the late 1700s, a large percentage of Europeans feared the tomato.
A nickname for the fruit was the “poison apple” because it was thought that aristocrats got sick and died after eating them, but the truth of the matter was that wealthy Europeans used pewter plates, which were high in lead content. Because tomatoes are so high in acidity, when placed on this particular tableware, the fruit would leach lead from the plate, resulting in many deaths from lead poisoning. No one made this connection between plate and poison at the time; the tomato was picked as the culprit.
Around 1880, with the invention of the pizza in Naples, the tomato grew widespread in popularity in Europe. But there’s a little more to the story behind the misunderstood fruit’s stint of unpopularity in England and America, as Andrew F. Smith details in his The Tomato in America: Early History, Culture, and Cookery. The tomato didn’t get blamed just for what was really lead poisoning. Before the fruit made its way to the table in North America, it was classified as a deadly nightshade, a poisonous family of Solanaceae plants that contain toxins called tropane alkaloids.
One of the earliest-known European references to the food was made by the Italian herbalist, Pietro Andrae Matthioli, who first classified the “golden apple” as a nightshade and a mandrake—a category of food known as an aphrodisiac. The mandrake has a history that dates back to the Old Testament; it is referenced twice as the Hebrew word dudaim, which roughly translates to “love apple.” (In Genesis, the mandrake is used as a love potion). Matthioli’s classification of the tomato as a mandrake had later ramifications. Like similar fruits and vegetables in the solanaceae family—the eggplant for example, the tomato garnered a shady reputation for being both poisonous and a source of temptation. (Editor’s note: This sentence has been edited to clarify that it was the mandrake, not the tomato, that is believed to have been referenced in the Old Testament)
But what really did the tomato in, according to Smith’s research, was John Gerard’s publication of Herball in 1597 which drew heavily from the agricultural works of Dodoens and l’Ecluse (1553). According to Smith, most of the information (which was inaccurate to begin with) was plagiarized by Gerard, a barber-surgeon who misspelled words like Lycoperticum in the collection’s rushed final product. Smith quotes Gerard:
Gerard considered ‘the whole plant’ to be ‘of ranke and stinking savour.’… The fruit was corrupt which he left to every man’s censure. While the leaves and stalk of the tomato plant are toxic, the fruit is not.
Gerard’s opinion of the tomato, though based on a fallacy, prevailed in Britain and in the British North American colonies for over 200 years.
Around this time it was also believed that tomatoes were best eaten in hotter countries, like the fruit’s place of origin in Mesoamerica. The tomato was eaten by the Aztecs as early as 700 AD and called the “tomatl,” (its name in Nahuatl), and wasn’t grown in Britain until the 1590s. In the early 16th century, Spanish conquistadors returning from expeditions in Mexico and other parts of Mesoamerica were thought to have first introduced the seeds to southern Europe. Some researchers credit Cortez with bringing the seeds to Europe in 1519 for ornamental purposes. Up until the late 1800s in cooler climates, tomatoes were solely grown for ornamental purposes in gardens rather than for eating. Smith continues:
John Parkinson the apothecary to King James I and botanist for King Charles I, procalimed that while love apples were eaten by the people in the hot countries to ‘coole and quench the heate and thirst of the hot stomaches,” British gardeners grew them only for curiousity and fo the beauty of the fruit.
The first known reference to tomato in the British North American Colonies was published in herbalist William Salmon’s Botanologia printed in 1710 which places the tomato in the Carolinas. The tomato became an acceptable edible fruit in many regions, but the United States of America weren’t as united in the 18th and early 19th century. Word of the tomato spread slowly along with plenty of myths and questions from farmers. Many knew how to grow them, but not how to cook the food.
By 1822, hundreds of tomato recipes appeared in local periodicals and newspapers, but fears and rumors of the plant’s potential poison lingered. By the 1830s when the love apple was cultivated in New York, a new concern emerged. The Green Tomato Worm, measuring three to four inches in length with a horn sticking out of its back, began taking over tomato patches across the state. According to The Illustrated Annual Register of Rural Affairs and Cultivator Almanac (1867) edited by J.J. Thomas, it was believed that a mere brush with such a worm could result in death. The description is chilling:
The tomato in all of our gardens is infested with a very large thick-bodied green worm, with oblique white sterols along its sides, and a curved thorn-like horn at the end of its back.
According to Smith’s research, even Ralph Waldo Emerson feared the presence of the tomato-loving worms: They were “an object of much terror, it being currently regarded as poisonous and imparting a poisonous quality to the fruit if it should chance to crawl upon it.”
Around the same time period, a man by the name of Dr. Fuller in New York was quoted in The Syracuse Standard, saying he had found a five-inch tomato worm in his garden. He captured the worm in a bottle and said it was “poisonous as a rattlesnake” when it would throw spittle at its prey. According to Fuller’s account, once the skin came into contact with the spittle, it swelled immediately. A few hours later, the victim would seize up and die. It was a “new enemy to human existence,” he said. Luckily, an entomologist by the name of Benjamin Walsh argued that the dreaded tomato worm wouldn’t hurt a flea. Thomas continues:
Now that we have become familiarized with it these fears have all vanished, and we have become quite indifferent towards this creature, knowing it to be merely an ugly-looking worm which eats some of the leaves of the tomato…
The fear, it seems, had subsided. With the rise of agricultural societies, farmers began investigating the tomato’s use and experimented with different varieties. According to Smith, back in the 1850s the name tomato was so highly regarded that it was used to sell other plants at market. By 1897, innovator Joseph Campbell figured out that tomatoes keep well when canned and popularized condensed tomato soup.
Today, tomatoes are consumed around the world in countless varieties: heirlooms, romas, cherry tomatoes—to name a few. More than one and a half billion tons of tomatoes are produced commercially every year. In 2009, the United States alone produced 3.32 billion pounds of fresh-market tomatoes. But some of the plant’s night-shady past seems to have followed the tomato in pop culture. In the 1978 musical drama/ comedy “Attack of the Killer Tomatoes,” giant red blobs of the fruit terrorize the country. “The nation is in chaos. Can nothing stop this tomato onslaught?”
Like this article? SIGN UP for our newsletter
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-was-feared-in-europe-for-more-than-200-years-863735/#VIFGPvquZsJXIFzc.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
In the late 1700s, a large percentage of Europeans feared the tomato.
A nickname for the fruit was the “poison apple” because it was thought that aristocrats got sick and died after eating them, but the truth of the matter was that wealthy Europeans used pewter plates, which were high in lead content. Because tomatoes are so high in acidity, when placed on this particular tableware, the fruit would leach lead from the plate, resulting in many deaths from lead poisoning. No one made this connection between plate and poison at the time; the tomato was picked as the culprit.
Around 1880, with the invention of the pizza in Naples, the tomato grew widespread in popularity in Europe. But there’s a little more to the story behind the misunderstood fruit’s stint of unpopularity in England and America, as Andrew F. Smith details in his The Tomato in America: Early History, Culture, and Cookery. The tomato didn’t get blamed just for what was really lead poisoning. Before the fruit made its way to the table in North America, it was classified as a deadly nightshade, a poisonous family of Solanaceae plants that contain toxins called tropane alkaloids.
One of the earliest-known European references to the food was made by the Italian herbalist, Pietro Andrae Matthioli, who first classified the “golden apple” as a nightshade and a mandrake—a category of food known as an aphrodisiac. The mandrake has a history that dates back to the Old Testament; it is referenced twice as the Hebrew word dudaim, which roughly translates to “love apple.” (In Genesis, the mandrake is used as a love potion). Matthioli’s classification of the tomato as a mandrake had later ramifications. Like similar fruits and vegetables in the solanaceae family—the eggplant for example, the tomato garnered a shady reputation for being both poisonous and a source of temptation. (Editor’s note: This sentence has been edited to clarify that it was the mandrake, not the tomato, that is believed to have been referenced in the Old Testament)
But what really did the tomato in, according to Smith’s research, was John Gerard’s publication of Herball in 1597 which drew heavily from the agricultural works of Dodoens and l’Ecluse (1553). According to Smith, most of the information (which was inaccurate to begin with) was plagiarized by Gerard, a barber-surgeon who misspelled words like Lycoperticum in the collection’s rushed final product. Smith quotes Gerard:
Gerard considered ‘the whole plant’ to be ‘of ranke and stinking savour.’… The fruit was corrupt which he left to every man’s censure. While the leaves and stalk of the tomato plant are toxic, the fruit is not.
Gerard’s opinion of the tomato, though based on a fallacy, prevailed in Britain and in the British North American colonies for over 200 years.
Around this time it was also believed that tomatoes were best eaten in hotter countries, like the fruit’s place of origin in Mesoamerica. The tomato was eaten by the Aztecs as early as 700 AD and called the “tomatl,” (its name in Nahuatl), and wasn’t grown in Britain until the 1590s. In the early 16th century, Spanish conquistadors returning from expeditions in Mexico and other parts of Mesoamerica were thought to have first introduced the seeds to southern Europe. Some researchers credit Cortez with bringing the seeds to Europe in 1519 for ornamental purposes. Up until the late 1800s in cooler climates, tomatoes were solely grown for ornamental purposes in gardens rather than for eating. Smith continues:
John Parkinson the apothecary to King James I and botanist for King Charles I, procalimed that while love apples were eaten by the people in the hot countries to ‘coole and quench the heate and thirst of the hot stomaches,” British gardeners grew them only for curiousity and fo the beauty of the fruit.
The first known reference to tomato in the British North American Colonies was published in herbalist William Salmon’s Botanologia printed in 1710 which places the tomato in the Carolinas. The tomato became an acceptable edible fruit in many regions, but the United States of America weren’t as united in the 18th and early 19th century. Word of the tomato spread slowly along with plenty of myths and questions from farmers. Many knew how to grow them, but not how to cook the food.
By 1822, hundreds of tomato recipes appeared in local periodicals and newspapers, but fears and rumors of the plant’s potential poison lingered. By the 1830s when the love apple was cultivated in New York, a new concern emerged. The Green Tomato Worm, measuring three to four inches in length with a horn sticking out of its back, began taking over tomato patches across the state. According to The Illustrated Annual Register of Rural Affairs and Cultivator Almanac (1867) edited by J.J. Thomas, it was believed that a mere brush with such a worm could result in death. The description is chilling:
The tomato in all of our gardens is infested with a very large thick-bodied green worm, with oblique white sterols along its sides, and a curved thorn-like horn at the end of its back.
According to Smith’s research, even Ralph Waldo Emerson feared the presence of the tomato-loving worms: They were “an object of much terror, it being currently regarded as poisonous and imparting a poisonous quality to the fruit if it should chance to crawl upon it.”
Around the same time period, a man by the name of Dr. Fuller in New York was quoted in The Syracuse Standard, saying he had found a five-inch tomato worm in his garden. He captured the worm in a bottle and said it was “poisonous as a rattlesnake” when it would throw spittle at its prey. According to Fuller’s account, once the skin came into contact with the spittle, it swelled immediately. A few hours later, the victim would seize up and die. It was a “new enemy to human existence,” he said. Luckily, an entomologist by the name of Benjamin Walsh argued that the dreaded tomato worm wouldn’t hurt a flea. Thomas continues:
Now that we have become familiarized with it these fears have all vanished, and we have become quite indifferent towards this creature, knowing it to be merely an ugly-looking worm which eats some of the leaves of the tomato…
The fear, it seems, had subsided. With the rise of agricultural societies, farmers began investigating the tomato’s use and experimented with different varieties. According to Smith, back in the 1850s the name tomato was so highly regarded that it was used to sell other plants at market. By 1897, innovator Joseph Campbell figured out that tomatoes keep well when canned and popularized condensed tomato soup.
Today, tomatoes are consumed around the world in countless varieties: heirlooms, romas, cherry tomatoes—to name a few. More than one and a half billion tons of tomatoes are produced commercially every year. In 2009, the United States alone produced 3.32 billion pounds of fresh-market tomatoes. But some of the plant’s night-shady past seems to have followed the tomato in pop culture. In the 1978 musical drama/ comedy “Attack of the Killer Tomatoes,” giant red blobs of the fruit terrorize the country. “The nation is in chaos. Can nothing stop this tomato onslaught?”
Like this article? SIGN UP for our newsletter
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-was-feared-in-europe-for-more-than-200-years-863735/#VIFGPvquZsJXIFzc.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
Julie Bove
Jun 22, 2019, 9:34:33 PM6/22/19
to
"A Moose in Love" <parkstre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a88bfc48-76e8-436b...@googlegroups.com...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-was-feared-in-europe-for-more-than-200-years-863735/
In the late 1700s, a large percentage of Europeans feared the tomato.
<read and snipped>
In the late 1700s, a large percentage of Europeans feared the tomato.
Thanks! Very interesting!
jmcquown
Jun 23, 2019, 6:59:26 AM6/23/19
to
running around wearing powdered wigs. ;)
Jill
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 7:17:57 AM6/23/19
to
OTOH, in the early 2100s, there are a lot of idiots running around, too.
Our 18th Century forebears were as smart as us and did some amazing
stuff.
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 7:32:22 AM6/23/19
to
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 06:59:19 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Now they all live in gated communities.
wrote:
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 7:39:15 AM6/23/19
to
to a justifiable fear of home invasion? One million home invasions take
place every year, and 27% of those result in homeowner injury.
Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
from the house).
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 7:48:38 AM6/23/19
to
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 7:55:21 AM6/23/19
to
<https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/home-contents-insurance/research/home-burglary-statistics.html>
Of course, home invasions mainly happen in areas of higher population
density. The cost/benefit analysis for driving 100 miles to break into
someone's house is not very good.
And if everybody moved out into the sticks to avoid home invasions,
the sticks wouldn't be the sticks anymore.
Cindy Hamilton
Gary
Jun 23, 2019, 8:02:17 AM6/23/19
to
jmcquown wrote:
>
> In the late 1700's there were a lot of idiots
> running around wearing powdered wigs. ;)
Yeah, what was up with that? Don't some still wear them in
>
> In the late 1700's there were a lot of idiots
> running around wearing powdered wigs. ;)
England? Like in courts?
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 8:02:33 AM6/23/19
to
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 04:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
You guys all seem to live in fear. I wish you all the best.
Gary
Jun 23, 2019, 8:03:12 AM6/23/19
to
Paranoid much?
I don't live in a gated community. I don't have a firearm. I
don't worry.
Gary
Jun 23, 2019, 8:03:40 AM6/23/19
to
Bruce wrote:
>
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
> >husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
> >from the house).
>
> I'm glad I don't live in the US.
It's not as bad as the Cindy's lead you to believe.
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
> >husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
> >from the house).
>
> I'm glad I don't live in the US.
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 8:05:04 AM6/23/19
to
very third world to me.
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 8:06:12 AM6/23/19
to
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 8:52:43 AM6/23/19
to
a crime.
Cindy Hamilton
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 8:55:07 AM6/23/19
to
> Paranoid much?
>
> I don't live in a gated community. I don't have a firearm. I
> don't worry.
He's home alone all day, when burglars expect people to be at
work.
Better safe than sorry.
Cindy Hamilton
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 23, 2019, 9:21:47 AM6/23/19
to
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 23, 2019, 9:23:26 AM6/23/19
to
A Moose in Love
Jun 23, 2019, 9:27:56 AM6/23/19
to
When I was a wee lad, there was a grocery store downtown with very limited parking. Sometimes my dad had to double park, and when he did that he left the keys in the ignition so that the other person who was parked in could move our car. Those days are long gone.
Janet
Jun 23, 2019, 9:59:07 AM6/23/19
to
In article <6fc475b4-7e6e-4d29...@googlegroups.com>,
angelica...@yahoo.com says...
"Only 44% of households that experienced an attempted break-in reported
the incident to the police. 22% of those that didn?t report to the
police considered the incident too trivial/unimportant to report"
suggests Australians are far less frightened or intimidated. Most
burglaries are via an unlocked door or window; 67 % of offenders carry
no weapon and most spend less than 5 minutes in the building.
Janet UK
angelica...@yahoo.com says...
the incident to the police. 22% of those that didn?t report to the
police considered the incident too trivial/unimportant to report"
suggests Australians are far less frightened or intimidated. Most
burglaries are via an unlocked door or window; 67 % of offenders carry
no weapon and most spend less than 5 minutes in the building.
Janet UK
Ophelia
Jun 23, 2019, 10:03:05 AM6/23/19
to
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:f3LPE.6121$1x5....@fx47.iad...
LOL
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 1:41:00 PM6/23/19
to
says "with chains and knives" I know that was serious business back then.
Nowadays I always mentally edit it to "with AKs and Uzis".
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 3:15:19 PM6/23/19
to
Australians who have a gun handy because they're afraid of a home
invasion. I don't think the US is a nice place to live, based on what
Americans say about it.
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 23, 2019, 3:37:45 PM6/23/19
to
if someone broke in, raped me and trashed the house because we don't have
anything worth stealing, just because we couldn't get to the gun locker
in time to say "I'm armed. Leave the house now."
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 3:45:53 PM6/23/19
to
that's even worse. Aren't you in Michigan? I thought that was one of
the more civilised parts.
cshenk
Jun 23, 2019, 4:50:45 PM6/23/19
to
Julias Ceasar was born.
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 4:57:02 PM6/23/19
to
Hank Rogers
Jun 23, 2019, 5:18:45 PM6/23/19
to
not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
Be nice!
Hank Rogers
Jun 23, 2019, 5:29:15 PM6/23/19
to
the crooks will hear about it and move into his neighborhood for the
easy pickings. He just may be crazier than john kuth. :)
He won't have a .44 magnum revolver to help him in an emergency.
Maybe an airsoft, or BB rifle, if he's allowed.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 23, 2019, 5:29:45 PM6/23/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:15:16 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>
did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:58:59 +0100, Janet <Ja...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <6fc475b4-7e6e-4d29...@googlegroups.com>,
>>angelica...@yahoo.com says...
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:02:33 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> > On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 04:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >The statistics aren't any better for Australia:
>>> > >
>>> > ><https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/home-contents-insurance/research/home-burglary-statistics.html>
>>
>>
>>"Only 44% of households that experienced an attempted break-in reported
>>the incident to the police. 22% of those that didn?t report to the
>>police considered the incident too trivial/unimportant to report"
>>
>> suggests Australians are far less frightened or intimidated. Most
>>burglaries are via an unlocked door or window; 67 % of offenders carry
>>no weapon and most spend less than 5 minutes in the building.
>
>Things can happen anywhere, but I don't think there are many
>Australians who have a gun handy because they're afraid of a home
>invasion. I don't think the US is a nice place to live, based on what
>Americans say about it.
The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 14:58:59 +0100, Janet <Ja...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <6fc475b4-7e6e-4d29...@googlegroups.com>,
>>angelica...@yahoo.com says...
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 8:02:33 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> > On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 04:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>> > <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >The statistics aren't any better for Australia:
>>> > >
>>> > ><https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/home-contents-insurance/research/home-burglary-statistics.html>
>>
>>
>>"Only 44% of households that experienced an attempted break-in reported
>>the incident to the police. 22% of those that didn?t report to the
>>police considered the incident too trivial/unimportant to report"
>>
>> suggests Australians are far less frightened or intimidated. Most
>>burglaries are via an unlocked door or window; 67 % of offenders carry
>>no weapon and most spend less than 5 minutes in the building.
>
>Things can happen anywhere, but I don't think there are many
>Australians who have a gun handy because they're afraid of a home
>invasion. I don't think the US is a nice place to live, based on what
>Americans say about it.
did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 23, 2019, 5:34:18 PM6/23/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:57:00 +1000, Bruce <br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
An Italian man here in our condos offered to do a Pizza Evening in the
party room. I nearly didn't bother, don't care that much for pizza,
but in the end did go. So glad I did, not like NA pizzas in the
least, my favourite was the one with chicken and gobs of mozzarella.
wrote:
party room. I nearly didn't bother, don't care that much for pizza,
but in the end did go. So glad I did, not like NA pizzas in the
least, my favourite was the one with chicken and gobs of mozzarella.
Hank Rogers
Jun 23, 2019, 5:35:38 PM6/23/19
to
Popeye's New york plantation. I hear the sex life there is great,
and he gives a gallon of crystal palace as a bonus each week.
Hank Rogers
Jun 23, 2019, 5:38:13 PM6/23/19
to
boarding house.
That would be OK, right?
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 5:49:03 PM6/23/19
to
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 16:29:07 -0500, Hank Rogers <nos...@invalid.org>
wrote:
We have a problem with ice addicts here. But I haven't heard of people
needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
those guns.
wrote:
needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
those guns.
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 5:57:52 PM6/23/19
to
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 16:18:36 -0500, Hank Rogers <nos...@invalid.org>
wrote:
The only way to get your mind of Sheldon is to comment on the US.
You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
start a Star Spangled Banner!
wrote:
You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
start a Star Spangled Banner!
Hank Rogers
Jun 23, 2019, 10:10:13 PM6/23/19
to
He could probably go to canada though.
Bruce
Jun 23, 2019, 10:37:03 PM6/23/19
to
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:10:07 -0500, Hank Rogers <nos...@invalid.org>
wrote:
Yes, sounds just a bit less retarded.
wrote:
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 5:58:06 AM6/24/19
to
Hank Rogers wrote:
eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
to many men, sadly. ;)
>
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > Are you aware that gated communities are a perfectly rational response
> > to a justifiable fear of home invasion? One million home invasions take
> > place every year, and 27% of those result in homeowner injury.
> > Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
> > husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
> > from the house).
>
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > Are you aware that gated communities are a perfectly rational response
> > to a justifiable fear of home invasion? One million home invasions take
> > place every year, and 27% of those result in homeowner injury.
> > Gated communities are, of course, not the only rational response. My
> > husband keeps a gun on hand (but locks it away when we both are away
> > from the house).
>
> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> Be nice!
LOL. Probably true. He's totally P-Whipped. No longer allowed to
> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> Be nice!
eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
to many men, sadly. ;)
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 24, 2019, 6:05:54 AM6/24/19
to
crammed together like rats in a cage, but everyplace where there
are people, there is crime.
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:19:40 AM6/24/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:05:50 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
Y'all paint a picture of a country where every retard and petty
criminal can get a gun. And then all innocent, decent people get
scared and also have to get a gun so they can defend themselves when
the perp comes into their house. And then you call that the land of
the free. What a nuthouse.
criminal can get a gun. And then all innocent, decent people get
scared and also have to get a gun so they can defend themselves when
the perp comes into their house. And then you call that the land of
the free. What a nuthouse.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:21:27 AM6/24/19
to
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 6:22:54 AM6/24/19
to
lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>
> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
the black market.
Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
hunting knife.
Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
using one to commit a crime.
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 24, 2019, 6:27:14 AM6/24/19
to
Cindy Hamilton
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:27:41 AM6/24/19
to
world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
Enough said.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:28:44 AM6/24/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
I never even think about guns. Except when I talk to an American.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 6:40:59 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
>
> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
What is an ice addict?
>
> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
> But I haven't heard of people
> needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
> it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
> those guns.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 6:41:52 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
>
> The only way to get your mind of Sheldon is to comment on the US.
> You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
> start a Star Spangled Banner!
I think he lives in Canada, Bruce.
>
> The only way to get your mind of Sheldon is to comment on the US.
> You're quite the patriot, Hank. Time to pull out your lighter and
> start a Star Spangled Banner!
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:45:09 AM6/24/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:41:02 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
>
>What is an ice addict?
I think you call it crystal meth.
>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> We have a problem with ice addicts here.
>
>What is an ice addict?
>> But I haven't heard of people
>> needing guns to protect themselves. But I believe y'all when you say
>> it's different in the US. It must be pretty Wild West there with all
>> those guns.
>
>You've been watching too many old westerns. ;)
alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 6:46:19 AM6/24/19
to
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 24, 2019, 7:01:49 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 7:24:37 AM6/24/19
to
statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 8:29:00 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
>
> >LOL. Probably true. He's totally P-Whipped. No longer allowed to
> >eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
> >to many men, sadly. ;)
>
> Thanks for caring.
I do sympathize with you. :)
>
> >LOL. Probably true. He's totally P-Whipped. No longer allowed to
> >eat meat and not allowed to have a gun. That's what *love* does
> >to many men, sadly. ;)
>
> Thanks for caring.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 8:29:56 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
imo.
You don't own a firearm and neither do I. Neither of us worry
about that, do we?
Most gun deaths happen during the dark hours when all the bad
people are out. I stay home then, safe, and watch westerns with
guns. lol
>
> Gary wrote:
> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
> >using one to commit a crime.
>
> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
> Enough said.
Remember too. Many of those gun deaths are the bad guys shooting
> Gary wrote:
> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
> >using one to commit a crime.
>
> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
> Enough said.
other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
imo.
You don't own a firearm and neither do I. Neither of us worry
about that, do we?
Most gun deaths happen during the dark hours when all the bad
people are out. I stay home then, safe, and watch westerns with
guns. lol
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 8:42:37 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
It's just common sense.
Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
the problem.
>
> lucretia wrote:
> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>
> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
And honestly, you both sound very uneducated and naive.
> lucretia wrote:
> >You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>
> You'd think intelligent Americans would only have to look at the
> statistics. I wonder how Europeans ever became Americans. It must have
> been a similar process that turned a Hobbit into Gollum.
My old Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared
It's just common sense.
Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
the problem.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 24, 2019, 8:49:03 AM6/24/19
to
the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 9:14:10 AM6/24/19
to
Bruce wrote:
>
> I mean, Cindy's husband's home
> alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
> the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.
Well, you definitely should lock your doors at night no matter
>
> I mean, Cindy's husband's home
> alone (oh no, an adult man, alone!) with a gun within reach in case
> the perp invades their home! We don't even lock the doors at night.
where you live. Don't be a fool.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 9:14:42 AM6/24/19
to
lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
Cars kill more people than guns. Make cars illegal?
>
> Gary wrote:
> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
> >the problem.
>
> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
Look at the stastistics of that rare thing happening.
> Gary wrote:
> >Good people with guns don't go out killing others. Guns are not
> >the problem.
>
> Perhaps not but those good people with guns are often careless with
> the guns and their kids wind up shooting other kids while they handle
> the guns, also remember a case where the mum permitted to carry had
> her toddler in the supermarket cart and toddler curiously takes gun
> out of her purse and shoots her dead. Yes, it was an outside chance,
> but it shouldn't have been able to happen. It's totally crazy IMO!
Cars kill more people than guns. Make cars illegal?
Janet
Jun 24, 2019, 9:34:24 AM6/24/19
to
In article <qeoqbc$1k47$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, nos...@invalid.org says...
> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
<sigh> You are misinformed.
I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
(Ophelia, for example).
The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
Janet UK
> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
(Ophelia, for example).
The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
Janet UK
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 9:48:36 AM6/24/19
to
Janet wrote:
>
> In article <qeoqbc$1k47$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, nos...@invalid.org says...
>
> > Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> > not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
> (Ophelia, for example).
That's the good people that own guns, Janet.
>
> In article <qeoqbc$1k47$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, nos...@invalid.org says...
>
> > Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
> > not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
> (Ophelia, for example).
> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.
Janet
Jun 24, 2019, 9:52:44 AM6/24/19
to
In article <5D10A482...@att.net>, g.ma...@att.net says...
> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
Apparently not, in USA
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-
crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
"The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
murders, rapes, and others."
Janet UK
>
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> >
> > The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> > did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> > the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> > their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys.
Where's your imaginary country where "all guns are illegal", Gary?
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> >
> > The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
> > did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
> > the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
> > their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys.
> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-
crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
"The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
murders, rapes, and others."
Janet UK
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 24, 2019, 10:18:34 AM6/24/19
to
There are plenty of places in the U.S. where you don't
have to lock the doors at night. I don't live there.
Cindy Hamilton
Cindy Hamilton
Jun 24, 2019, 10:22:12 AM6/24/19
to
by playing chicken with her kids using an SUV. No guns
are necessary for the sufficiently stupid:
<https://apnews.com/4da71f14bd174c37adc06cd722758330>
Cindy Hamilton
Dave Smith
Jun 24, 2019, 10:24:33 AM6/24/19
to
On 2019-06-24 6:22 a.m., Gary wrote:
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
> will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
> the black market.
>
It is pretty sad that those who whine the most about guns are the same
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>
> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
> over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
> will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
> the black market.
>
people who are soft on crime. Handguns are legal here, but strictly
controlled and it is very rare that a legally licensed handgun owner
uses his gun in a crime. I can think of one incident more than 10 years
ago, and it stands out because is such a rare event. There are still
lots of shootings among young black gang members, non of whom have gun
licenses and would not be allowed to carry them around or to shoot
people even if they had licenses. The bleeding hearts are under the
impression that banning them from law abiding gun owners will make the
gun crime go away, that the criminals will suddenly realize that killing
is wrong. But for goodness sake, don't send them to jail for too long
because jail is not a deterrent.
One of the major pushes for stricter hand gun controls was an incident
where one girl was killed and another blinded when some young gangsta
fired a sawed off shotgun through a door. Sawed off shotguns were
already prohibited weapons here.
> Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
> ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
> don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either.
that here. However, I do enjoy shooting. I trained as a weapons tech
in the reserves and always found firearms interesting. There is a range
about 10 miles and I have a membership and like to go out a couple times
a bunch. AAMOF I was thinking of going there today.
> Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
> Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
> people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
> using one to commit a crime.
when you could just slap law abiding people with more controls??
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 10:28:20 AM6/24/19
to
Janet wrote:
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."
Here's a careful study for you, Janet. As you mentioned Ophelia
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."
and her husband own legal guns. They use them for hunting as all
NICE people do.
That said, O hates you with a passion for all your past stalking
of her. Even nice people can snap sometimes. What if O came to
see you with her legal shotgun to end all of your stalking crap.
Even legal guns kill people.
No one should be restricted from owning a firearm.
Remember, most of your stastics of the US are night time bad guys
shooting other bad guys. The good gunowners mostly stay inside
their homes at night.
Ophelia
Jun 24, 2019, 10:35:13 AM6/24/19
to
"Cindy Hamilton" wrote in message
news:0a7547b5-7649-432a...@googlegroups.com...
OMG!!!
Dave Smith
Jun 24, 2019, 10:37:20 AM6/24/19
to
On 2019-06-24 9:48 a.m., Gary wrote:
mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
done that.
> Janet wrote:
>> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
>
> If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
> Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
> calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.
Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
>> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>> Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>> are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>> against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
>
> If you shoot an intruder, make sure they die inside your home.
> Also make sure they carry a weapon. Plant one if necessary before
> calling the police. Saves alot of legal trouble.
mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
done that.
Gary
Jun 24, 2019, 10:45:11 AM6/24/19
to
Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
> mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
> done that.
You see that all the time and it's sickening to me. Grieving
>
> Just remember that there can be fallout. Even if the punk was armed his
> mama would be whining that he boy was a good boy who wouldn't never have
> done that.
family interviewed in their living room, always holding a cute
old picture of their rat-ass kid and crying that it's just not
fair. He was such a good boy. It's all more touchy-feely crap to
me. These criminals need to be celebrated when they die while
committing a crime. F them and their cute little young-kid
pictures.
Janet
Jun 24, 2019, 10:48:58 AM6/24/19
to
In article <5D10D4B5...@att.net>, g.ma...@att.net says...
None of that would be necessary here. The same law applies to unarmed
intruders carrying no weapon .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504
"What force does the law allow?
In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect
themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.
Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act
"honestly and instinctively" in the heat of the moment. "Fine
judgements" over the level of force used are not expected, says the
Crown Prosecution Service.
What this means in practice is that someone can claim they attacked in
self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in
hindsight they were clearly wrong.
Victims do not have to wait to be attacked if they are in their home and
fear for themselves or others. These guidelines also apply if someone,
in the spur of the moment, picks up an item to use as a weapon. The law
very clearly says that a householder is not expected to weigh up the
arguments for and against in the heat of the moment - but they have to
show that their actions were reasonable in the moment.
"What is the situation if the intruder dies?
It is still lawful to act in reasonable self-defence, even if the
intruder dies as a result. "
Janet UK
intruders carrying no weapon .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504
"What force does the law allow?
In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect
themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime.
Householders are protected from prosecution as long as they act
"honestly and instinctively" in the heat of the moment. "Fine
judgements" over the level of force used are not expected, says the
Crown Prosecution Service.
What this means in practice is that someone can claim they attacked in
self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in
hindsight they were clearly wrong.
Victims do not have to wait to be attacked if they are in their home and
fear for themselves or others. These guidelines also apply if someone,
in the spur of the moment, picks up an item to use as a weapon. The law
very clearly says that a householder is not expected to weigh up the
arguments for and against in the heat of the moment - but they have to
show that their actions were reasonable in the moment.
"What is the situation if the intruder dies?
It is still lawful to act in reasonable self-defence, even if the
intruder dies as a result. "
Janet UK
Dave Smith
Jun 24, 2019, 11:02:51 AM6/24/19
to
cop. Cop just picked on the kid because he was walking down the middle
of the road and they showed photos of an innocent looking young kid
rather than more up to date photos of a large man who had just stolen
stuff from a convenience store and bullied the owner.
Dave Smith
Jun 24, 2019, 11:12:46 AM6/24/19
to
to protect yourself, but you are pretty much restricted to using only as
much force as required to deal with the threat you are facing. You
can't use lethal for someone just being there or stealing. You can just
someone who is attacking you with a weapon and you fear for your
life.... however... firearms have to be safely stored. If you have time
to go and get the gun, unlock it, find the ammunition and load it, then
you weren't in enough peril to justify using it.
Janet
Jun 24, 2019, 11:44:41 AM6/24/19
to
In article <5D10DE04...@att.net>, g.ma...@att.net says...
RFC has recently seen her posting identical, repeated accusations to
and about Pamela. We're just two of numerous posters targeted by her in
the same way.
Janet UK
>
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> > that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> > But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> > murders, rapes, and others."
>
> Here's a careful study for you, Janet. As you mentioned Ophelia
> and her husband own legal guns. They use them for hunting as all
> NICE people do.
>
> That said, O hates you with a passion for all your past stalking
> of her.
I have never stalked her. That's her paranoid delusion.
> Janet wrote:
> >
> > "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> > that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> > But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> > murders, rapes, and others."
>
> Here's a careful study for you, Janet. As you mentioned Ophelia
> and her husband own legal guns. They use them for hunting as all
> NICE people do.
>
> That said, O hates you with a passion for all your past stalking
> of her.
RFC has recently seen her posting identical, repeated accusations to
and about Pamela. We're just two of numerous posters targeted by her in
the same way.
Janet UK
itsjoan...@webtv.net
Jun 24, 2019, 1:34:09 PM6/24/19
to
On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 8:52:44 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-
> crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."
>
>
> Janet UK
>
Gun ownership probably does not stop crime in the USA. But a well placed
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-
> crimes-evidence-shows/?redirect=1
>
> "The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and
> that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms.
> But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes:
> murders, rapes, and others."
>
>
> Janet UK
>
bullet will stop THAT intruder from ever breaking in your house or anyone
else's house ever again.
itsjoan...@webtv.net
Jun 24, 2019, 1:36:49 PM6/24/19
to
In her case, exceeding stupid; bordering on retarded.
dsi1
Jun 24, 2019, 1:43:55 PM6/24/19
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nf1zWJzTU
itsjoan...@webtv.net
Jun 24, 2019, 2:21:48 PM6/24/19
to
her stupid butt in prison. She should have gotten the death penalty.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 2:39:42 PM6/24/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 08:29:58 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>> >using one to commit a crime.
>>
>> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
>> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
>> Enough said.
>
>Remember too. Many of those gun deaths are the bad guys shooting
>other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
>imo.
No, I'm all for it.
>Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Gary wrote:
>> >Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>> >Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>> >people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>> >using one to commit a crime.
>>
>> It's very simple. The US has the most relaxed gun laws of the western
>> world. And wayyyy more gun deaths than any other western country.
>> Enough said.
>
>Remember too. Many of those gun deaths are the bad guys shooting
>other bad guys late at night. That's not necessarily a bad thing,
>imo.
>You don't own a firearm and neither do I. Neither of us worry
>about that, do we?
>Most gun deaths happen during the dark hours when all the bad
>people are out. I stay home then, safe, and watch westerns with
>guns. lol
people.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 2:43:35 PM6/24/19
to
screen doors against bugs , snakes etc. You only need a sharp knife to
make a hole in them and open the latch.
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 2:45:51 PM6/24/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:34:16 +0100, Janet <Ja...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>In article <qeoqbc$1k47$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, nos...@invalid.org says...
>
>> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
>> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
>(Ophelia, for example).
Yes, I could have a gun if I wanted. I think I'd have to go to a short
>In article <qeoqbc$1k47$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, nos...@invalid.org says...
>
>> Oh hush. You know perfectly well how sensitive bruce is. And he is
>> not allowed to have a firearm, so don't even mention stuff like that.
>
> <sigh> You are misinformed.
>
> I know Australians AND many Brits who own legally licensed guns
>(Ophelia, for example).
gun handling class to get the permit. Or that was the case in
Tasmania.
> The NRA has spun gullible Americans fake news that "gun control" in
>Australia and UK means people are "not allowed to have firearms", or
>are "not allowed" to defend themselves, their family home and property
>against intruders with whatever force is required, including lethal.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 24, 2019, 2:53:24 PM6/24/19
to
from her? I could go with ordered tube tying there :(
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 24, 2019, 2:58:22 PM6/24/19
to
given the number of children previously removed from her, there should
be enforced sterilisation.
itsjoan...@webtv.net
Jun 24, 2019, 3:16:16 PM6/24/19
to
On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 1:58:22 PM UTC-5, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
> I think from what I read she was mentally lacking but I also think,
> given the number of children previously removed from her, there should
> be enforced sterilisation.
>
I'm all for it for males and females. Truly, some people should not be allowed
>
> I think from what I read she was mentally lacking but I also think,
> given the number of children previously removed from her, there should
> be enforced sterilisation.
>
to reproduce.
dsi1
Jun 24, 2019, 3:19:37 PM6/24/19
to
Bruce
Jun 24, 2019, 3:22:43 PM6/24/19
to
Dave Smith
Jun 24, 2019, 4:35:48 PM6/24/19
to
testimony. I got the impression that the bird's account led the cops to
doubt the wife's story, and you can be sure there was other evidence.
dsi1
Jun 24, 2019, 5:05:59 PM6/24/19
to
graham
Jun 25, 2019, 12:17:03 AM6/25/19
to
On 2019-06-24 5:02 a.m., lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
>> said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
>> sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
>> hunting knife.
gun policy, who are we to judge?
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>>
>> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
>> over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
>> will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
>> the black market.
>>
>> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>> The other place where gated communities are common is South Africa. I
>>> did read an article recently (think it was in the Guardian) about how
>>> the NRA is in financial trouble. That would be good if they lost
>>> their stranglehold on the gun situation in the USA.
>>
>> I have to disagree again with you Lucretia. Look at history. Once
>> your government makes all guns illegal, they have total control
>> over the population except for the bad guys. Even the bad guys
>> will still get their guns - they will just cost more to buy on
>> the black market.
>>
>> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
>>
>> Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
>> ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
>> don't feel any urgency to buy one for protection either. That
>> Remember too - I don't own any firearms. I like to shoot them but
>> ranges are too far from me here to warrant buying one for that. I
>> said, if I heard someone breaking into my house one night, it
>> sure would be comforting to have a nice backup rather than a
>> hunting knife.
>>
>> Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>> Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>> people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>> using one to commit a crime.
>
>> Firearms are here to stay regardless of new restrictive laws.
>> Wrong to take them away from the "good guys" that only shoot
>> people in self defense. Better to make more harsh penalties for
>> using one to commit a crime.
>
> You sound like the voice of the NRA!
>
If USians think that Sandy Hook is an acceptable price to maintain their
>
gun policy, who are we to judge?
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 25, 2019, 6:45:20 AM6/25/19
to
that they are making the whole thing up, Sandy Hook was fake news!
Gary
Jun 25, 2019, 8:25:04 AM6/25/19
to
lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
restrictive gun laws would NOT have prevented it. Get rid of your
cars. They kill more people each year than guns do. Learn to ride
a bike or just not travel.
Go after the evil people, not the tools that they use to kill.
>
> graham wrote:
> >If USians think that Sandy Hook is an acceptable price to maintain their
> >gun policy, who are we to judge?
>
> Yes, I read there is the final disrespect for the grief of the parents
> that they are making the whole thing up, Sandy Hook was fake news!
You non-thinkers. Sandy Hook was not fake news but more
> graham wrote:
> >If USians think that Sandy Hook is an acceptable price to maintain their
> >gun policy, who are we to judge?
>
> Yes, I read there is the final disrespect for the grief of the parents
> that they are making the whole thing up, Sandy Hook was fake news!
restrictive gun laws would NOT have prevented it. Get rid of your
cars. They kill more people each year than guns do. Learn to ride
a bike or just not travel.
Go after the evil people, not the tools that they use to kill.
graham
Jun 25, 2019, 8:38:41 AM6/25/19
to
Gary
Jun 25, 2019, 8:57:24 AM6/25/19
to
Ed Pawlowski
Jun 25, 2019, 9:27:03 AM6/25/19
to
criminals supplied for centuries. If the bad guys want one, they will
get them.
Stop all gun making, gun sales and confiscate what you can but there
will be guns around for a long time.
graham
Jun 25, 2019, 10:28:59 AM6/25/19
to
On 2019-06-25 6:25 a.m., Gary wrote:
You're a policeman, on duty by yourself.
You are walking on a deserted street late at night.
Suddenly, an armed man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks
eyes with you,
screams something that sounds like obscenities, raises the knife and
lunges at you.
You are carrying your truncheon and are an expert in using it.
However, you have only a split second to react before he reaches you.
What do you do?
ANSWERS:
Australian Police Officer:
BANG !
American Police Officer:
BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
'Click'...Reload... BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG ! BANG !
Glasgow Police Officer:
"Haw, Jimmie....! Drop the wee knifie reight noo, unless ye want it
stuck up yer arse!
lucreti...@fl.it
Jun 25, 2019, 10:37:05 AM6/25/19
to
Dave Smith
Jun 25, 2019, 10:43:19 AM6/25/19
to
their guns by stealing them from legal owners, or buying them from
people stole them from legal owners, but the statistics proved them
wrong. They may have been stolen in another country, but they were
smuggled into Canada.
It is typical of them to use false information to support their
emotional issues about guns. A while back the Coalition for Gun Control
had a page on their website about the firearms incidents involving
children. There were only about three dozen incidents reported and they
spanned a period of more than 25 years in order to get enough incidents
to make it look like an issue. Some of those incidents involved replica
guns, BBguns and pellet guns, which are not firearms. Some of the others
were threats by kids that they were going to go home and get gun and
come back and shoot someone, though none of them actually came back with
a gun, and goodness knows if there was even a gun at the house. They
were non incidents.
graham
Jun 25, 2019, 11:01:46 AM6/25/19
to
Dave Smith
Jun 25, 2019, 11:19:10 AM6/25/19
to
have been included in the list of firearms incidents involving children.
The thing that ticked me off was that they took what could be a serious
issue and padded the numbers to make it look like it was. They must
count on people simply looking at the headers and not bothering to read
the factoids included. If they had all been firearms incidents and had
occurred over the period of a year or two it would have been an issue.
It took of a span of about 25 years to make a list that looked
significant, and then it was padded with incidents were there were no
firearms and some that were just childish, idle threats. When they
throw crap like that into their argument they lose all credibility.
U.S. Janet B.
Jun 25, 2019, 12:36:59 PM6/25/19
to
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:21:56 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
snip
This study shows over 1300 children under 17 a year killed by guns and
many more injured.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nearly-1-300-kids-killed-guns-each-year-study-finds-n774086
Janet US
<adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
snip
>>>
>>> It is typical of them to use false information to support their
>>> emotional issues about guns. A while back the Coalition for Gun
>>> Control had a page on their website about the firearms incidents
>>> involving children. There were only about three dozen incidents
>>> reported and they spanned a period of more than 25 years in order to
>>> get enough incidents to make it look like an issue. Some of those
>>> incidents involved replica guns, BBguns and pellet guns, which are not
>>> firearms. Some of the others were threats by kids that they were going
>>> to go home and get gun and come back and shoot someone, though none of
>>> them actually came back with a gun, and goodness knows if there was
>>> even a gun at the house. They were non incidents.
snip
>>> It is typical of them to use false information to support their
>>> emotional issues about guns. A while back the Coalition for Gun
>>> Control had a page on their website about the firearms incidents
>>> involving children. There were only about three dozen incidents
>>> reported and they spanned a period of more than 25 years in order to
>>> get enough incidents to make it look like an issue. Some of those
>>> incidents involved replica guns, BBguns and pellet guns, which are not
>>> firearms. Some of the others were threats by kids that they were going
>>> to go home and get gun and come back and shoot someone, though none of
>>> them actually came back with a gun, and goodness knows if there was
>>> even a gun at the house. They were non incidents.
This study shows over 1300 children under 17 a year killed by guns and
many more injured.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nearly-1-300-kids-killed-guns-each-year-study-finds-n774086
Janet US
Julian Macassey
Jun 25, 2019, 12:38:37 PM6/25/19
to
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:16:55 -0600, graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>>> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>>> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
When you see a sticker that says NRA (National Redneck
>> On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 06:22:58 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guns used in crimes are a very small percentage of the total gun
>>> owners. A criminal would think twice about breaking into a house
>>> that has a NRA sticker near the door or windows.
Association?) or "Protected by Smith & Wesson", you know there are guns
inside that are easy to carry and easy to sell, easier than a big screen
TV.
--
The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining
armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos
neatly ignores the fact that it was he, by peddling second rate
technology, led them into it in the first place, and continues to
do so today. - Douglas Adams, Guardian 1995
Julian Macassey
Jun 25, 2019, 12:40:57 PM6/25/19
to
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:25:06 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>
> You non-thinkers. Sandy Hook was not fake news but more
> restrictive gun laws would NOT have prevented it. Get rid of your
> cars. They kill more people each year than guns do. Learn to ride
> a bike or just not travel.
Newsflash! There are more cars than guns. Cars are used more often
>
> You non-thinkers. Sandy Hook was not fake news but more
> restrictive gun laws would NOT have prevented it. Get rid of your
> cars. They kill more people each year than guns do. Learn to ride
> a bike or just not travel.
that guns.
>
> Go after the evil people, not the tools that they use to kill.
--
Be just and if you can't be just, be arbitrary. - William S.
Burroughs, the Naked Lunch
Bruce
Jun 25, 2019, 2:29:19 PM6/25/19
to
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages