Korean BBQ Wings

[Sqwertz]

Heavily dusted with seasoned rice and tapioca flours left to
absorb about 30 minutes.

Fried fist at 320 for 5-6 minutes then crank up the oil to 360 and
put the wings back in for 90-120 seconds. Done:

https://i.postimg.cc/YqWwyZ6C/Fried-Wings-for-Saucing.jpg

Toss in a bowl with you wing sauce: 5 parts left bottle, 1 part
right bottle, and 4 parts Dukes lime mayo.

https://i.postimg.cc/3RxTSwBs/Wing-Sauces.jpg

Plate with some Sqiller Beans and onion chips you made with the
leftover dusting flour.

https://i.postimg.cc/jjXT4fz6/Korean-BBQ-Chicken-Wings.jpg

-sw

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

I know they're probably really good, but I'd just go with the first picture
to cut down on the drips on my shirt and down my chin.

[Sqwertz]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:16:06 -0700 (PDT),
itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 8:10:19 PM UTC-5, Sqwertz wrote:

>> Plate with some Sqiller Beans and onion chips you made with the
>> leftover dusting flour.
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/jjXT4fz6/Korean-BBQ-Chicken-Wings.jpg
>>

> I know they're probably really good, but I'd just go with the first picture
> to cut down on the drips on my shirt and down my chin.

Pussy - They're not that saucy. But what there is of it is packed
with flavor.

-sw

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-23, Sqwertz <sqwe...@gmail.compost> wrote:
> Heavily dusted with seasoned rice and tapioca flours left to
> absorb about 30 minutes.
>
> Fried fist at 320 for 5-6 minutes then crank up the oil to 360 and
> put the wings back in for 90-120 seconds. Done:
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/YqWwyZ6C/Fried-Wings-for-Saucing.jpg
>
> Toss in a bowl with you wing sauce: 5 parts left bottle, 1 part
> right bottle, and 4 parts Dukes lime mayo.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/3RxTSwBs/Wing-Sauces.jpg

Interesting. The gochujang I buy looks something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/CJ-Haechandle-Gochujang-Pepper-Korean/dp/B07BDRMFDZ

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Bruce]

That looks familiar, but it's been a while.

[Bruce]

On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:40:30 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Ingredient 2 is corn syrup, so no thanks.

[Sqwertz]

As do most of them. Point being?

Chung Jung One is considered superior by most Koreans. I have that
as well as a couple tubs of Trader Joes and also a bottle of
Mother In Law's w/Garlic. The Bibigo is better as a dip/sauce
that doesn't require further prep - very potent and still needs
thinned for the wings). Your tub requires even more prep and
additional ingredients to be able to be used on wings (and most
other foods).

I could live solely with Trader Joes, and for only $2 pop for a
small container (I get a couple each time I go - I currently have
4 of them), and 4 empty containers which are handy.

https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/gochujang-paste-073246

-sw

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-23, Sqwertz <sqwe...@gmail.compost> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:01 GMT, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-23, Sqwertz <sqwe...@gmail.compost> wrote:
>>> Heavily dusted with seasoned rice and tapioca flours left to
>>> absorb about 30 minutes.
>>>
>>> Fried fist at 320 for 5-6 minutes then crank up the oil to 360 and
>>> put the wings back in for 90-120 seconds. Done:
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/YqWwyZ6C/Fried-Wings-for-Saucing.jpg
>>>
>>> Toss in a bowl with you wing sauce: 5 parts left bottle, 1 part
>>> right bottle, and 4 parts Dukes lime mayo.
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/3RxTSwBs/Wing-Sauces.jpg
>>
>> Interesting. The gochujang I buy looks something like this:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/CJ-Haechandle-Gochujang-Pepper-Korean/dp/B07BDRMFDZ
>
> As do most of them. Point being?

Just commenting on the difference.

> Chung Jung One is considered superior by most Koreans. I have that
> as well as a couple tubs of Trader Joes and also a bottle of
> Mother In Law's w/Garlic. The Bibigo is better as a dip/sauce
> that doesn't require further prep - very potent and still needs
> thinned for the wings). Your tub requires even more prep and
> additional ingredients to be able to be used on wings (and most
> other foods).

Well, yes. That's how cooking is supposed to go. Add different
ingredients for different dishes.

I generally buy gochujang at the Korean grocery store.

> I could live solely with Trader Joes, and for only $2 pop for a
> small container (I get a couple each time I go - I currently have
> 4 of them), and 4 empty containers which are handy.
>
> https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/gochujang-paste-073246

I've never had much use for Trader Joe's; so much of their stuff is
already prepared and most of the "raw" foods are things I can get
at my regular grocery store without making a special trip.

However, I think I'll try one of their olive oils. Whole Paycheck
appears to have discontinued my favorite, so it's time to find a
nice Greek EVOO.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Sqwertz]

Just commenting on the difference between the two. Yours is an
ingredient, mine is more of a ready dip.

> I generally buy gochujang at the Korean grocery store.
>
>> I could live solely with Trader Joes, and for only $2 pop for a
>> small container (I get a couple each time I go - I currently have
>> 4 of them), and 4 empty containers which are handy.
>>
>> https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/gochujang-paste-073246
>
> I've never had much use for Trader Joe's; so much of their stuff is
> already prepared and most of the "raw" foods are things I can get
> at my regular grocery store without making a special trip.

They used to pick their products better and have good prices on
beer and wine. Now I just go for the $12/lb roquefort, the
gochujang, and the brioche NE style hot hod buns. And I'll pick a
couple other untried items that usually turn out to be spectacular
duds.

> However, I think I'll try one of their olive oils. Whole Paycheck
> appears to have discontinued my favorite, so it's time to find a
> nice Greek EVOO.

We have a bulk [infused] olive, oils, and vinegar store.

-sw

[jmcquown]

They look really good and probably taste quite good, too. I'm just not
a big fan of sauced chicken wings. I wouldn't pass up the first pic of
fried, sans sauce. :)

Jill

[Hank Rogers]

Your majesty must recall that Joan is of humble, non royal birthright.

Thus, she hasn't the least bit of your high cultural refinement and
royal stature.

She is still a loyal subject though.

[GM]

Princess Jill is "to the manner born"...

The foetid lot of us are blessed to be her skulking hoi - polloi subjects...

HRH Jill dines off of the finest Dresden china... platinum flatware lifts her
gore - may victuals to her finely lipsticked mouth...

Costumed negro flunkies stand beside her, fanning away the pesky flies and skeeters
with ostrich feather fans...

She has special Polish scrub women to polish her diamonds, silver, jewels, and her tiara...

We peasants gratefully slop buckwheat and coon fat gruel, scooped from rude wooden
bowls with our filthy fingers - the same fingers we use in lieu of toilet paper...

But we are all dazzled by Princess Jill's fairy tale life, safely lived behind the moated gates
of the Royal Dataw Country Club...

--
GM

[Sqwertz]

My "R" must be no the fitz. Dammit, and I just an this keyboad
though the dishwashe, too.

r r rr r

-sw

[Gary]

SHUT DOWN, RESTART

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-23, Sqwertz <sqwe...@gmail.compost> wrote:
>
> We have a bulk [infused] olive, oils, and vinegar store.

We have two of them. They're inconveniently located.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Gary]

I'll be cooking 3 "Oven Fried" chicken thighs today with just S&P.
Plain and simple is good for chicken.
I might eat 2 today (oink, oink) or not.

Regardless, the third one will be coated with bourbon BBQ sauce tomorrow
or the next day. "Gently reheated" in microwave in a covered bowl to
retain moisture and not overcook.

Sides will be microwaved baked potato, baked beans with onions and some
applesauce with brown sugar added.

No doubt, a fresh slice of bread and butter too.

[Bruce]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 06:30:05 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:

>On 3/23/2023 6:48 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 3/22/2023 9:16 PM, itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>>> I know they're probably really good, but I'd just go with the first
>>> picture
>>> to cut down on the drips on my shirt and down my chin.
>>
>> They look really good and probably taste quite good, too.  I'm just not
>> a big fan of sauced chicken wings.  I wouldn't pass up the first pic of
>> fried, sans sauce. :)
>>
>> Jill
>
>I'll be cooking 3 "Oven Fried" chicken thighs today with just S&P.
>Plain and simple is good for chicken.
>I might eat 2 today (oink, oink) or not.
>
>Regardless, the third one will be coated with bourbon BBQ sauce tomorrow
>or the next day.

Bourbon BBQ sauce, prefab from the supermarket? Care to share the
ingredient list? :)

[Gary]

Not prefab at all. This is all from basics bbq sauce. I've been playing
with it for years. STill a work in progress though. Key is to not use
much bourbon at all. It has a very strong taste even after most of the
alcohol cooks off. Basically only one capful per pint or even quart of
sauce.

That said, in a pinch, you can always use a good prefab sauce and just
add some bourbon.

I'll be making pulled pork soon and will make the traditional eastern
NC/VA vinegar based sauce for it. Even there, in a pinch, you could use
a commercial sauce and cut it down 50-50 with vinegar.

I bought a 3lb Boston Butt the other day for only 99 cents per pound.
Easy to cook in a dry crockpot on low for 8-10 hours.

With homemade coleslaw, all on a bun. Eat with salty chips.
That meal is one of my top 10 choices.

[Bruce]

But isn't the BBQ sauce prefab? I don't know a common brand name for
BBQ sauce, so I went with the McDonalds brand:

"High fructose corn syrup, water, tomato paste, honey, distilled
vinegar, molasses, food starch-modified, natural (plant source) and
artificial flavors, salt, dried chipotle peppers, natural smoke flavor
(plant source), dried chili peppers, soybean oil, sodium benzoate and
potassium sorbate (preservatives), onion powder, garlic powder,
caramel color, propylene glycol alginate, spice,"

First ingredient is "high fructose corn syrup". Ghe ghe. This stuff
should be banned as a danger to public health.

[Michael Trew]

Tuck that napkin in! Boy do they look good. I could go for some of
each, but best eat right after sauce, because the crispy wings will get
soggy quickly.

[Bruce]

Yeah, man! Can you taste the ammonia in tortured factory chicken?

[Gary]

You obviously never bought store chicken even when you did eat chicken.

[Bruce]

I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
money more important than animal welfare.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 5:16:32 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> >
> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
> money more important than animal welfare.
>

And I've read that leprechauns are real, too.

[Bruce]

You don't believe that Americans wash chicken with bleach? Y'all don't
seem to know much about your own food practices. And considering those
practices, maybe it's for the best.

[jmcquown]

I wish I knew why Bruce keeps insisting chicken in the US tastes like
ammonia or bleach. What sort of twisted faux news is he reading?

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 14:56:26 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

I don't insist, I ask. After all, I've never eaten US chicken.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

That was ONE store (Food Lion) in ONE location and the FDA quickly stopped
that practice. It is not an ongoing problem but since it happened 20+ years
ago you continually harp on it as if it's an everyday occurrence.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:56:34 PM UTC-5, jmcquown wrote:
>
> I wish I knew why Bruce keeps insisting chicken in the US tastes like
> ammonia or bleach. What sort of twisted faux news is he reading?
>
> Jill
>

Food Lion got caught doing this in an effort to sell chicken past it's
best by date. If you believe him, you'd think it's a common thing that
all stores practice. He just won't let it go.

[Dave Smith]

The only reason he would know about it was because it was in the news,
and the reason it was in the news was that it was wrong.

[Bruce]

Too fat to stand and their flesh rots while they're alive: The REAL
reason America's 'Frankenchickens' have to be washed with chlorine
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742712/Why-chickens-washed-chlorine.html>

Chlorinated chicken explained: why do the Americans treat their
poultry with chlorine?
<https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-safety/chlorinated-chicken-explained-why-do-the-americans-treat-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.article>

Chlorine-washed chicken Q&A: food safety expert explains why US
poultry is banned in the EU
<https://theconversation.com/chlorine-washed-chicken-qanda-food-safety-expert-explains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921>

Do I need to go on?

[Bruce]

[Bruce]

[%]

Bruce wrote:
> Do I need to go on?
>

Tape a coin on the needle, the record is skipping.

[Bruce]

This is RFC. People need things repeated.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

I have no gripe that it was in the news, and I have no gripe that what they did
was wrong and just plain nasty. But to keep dragging up that ancient story
as if it's a common everyday occurrence in the USA is just plain stupid.

[Dave Smith]

Well, like I said, it was only news because it was so wrong and out of
the ordinary. No one would have run the story if it had been an every
day occurrence.

[%]

Vinyl is making a come back.

[Bruce]

I've given you 3 links (of dozens that I could have found) that prove
it's not an ancient story, but a current practice.

[jmcquown]

If it was an every day occurrence there would have been a huge outcry
from consumers and it would have been all over the news. Not just one
guy in Australia bitching about it.

Jill

[jmcquown]

He looks for anything and everything negative about the USA as if it is
normal. He's never been to this country, doesn't know a darn thing
about it other than picking up little tidbits which suit his vegetarian
agenda.

Jill

[Bruce]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 19:00:29 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

How many links do you people need? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[S Viemeister]

On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:

> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
> money more important than animal welfare.
>

Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 4:53:39 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>
> I've given you 3 links (of dozens that I could have found) that prove
> it's not an ancient story, but a current practice.
>

Two of the articles you provided are from 2017. Plus, it's not bleach, it is
chlorine wash, yes you can argue it's bleach, but it's not. It's a rinse to stop
salmonella and other pathogens.

I know all of this just skimmed by you as you have no interest in learning
anything just interested in throwing out more accusations.

[Bruce]

The point stands and all Americans deny it here.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

That's just what it is a chlorine solution, but Bruce is determined to call it
bleach, straight bleach.

[Bruce]

Ah, you're starting to negotiate. That's better than complete denial
at least. Congrats!

[Bruce]

You've finally done a bit of research. Good :)

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:32:39 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> >
> You've finally done a bit of research. Good :)
>

Yeah, I always like reading seven-year-old articles.

[Bruce]

You've gone from "It only happened once!" to 7 year old articles.
Good, you're getting there :)

Let's go a bit further with an article from August 2022:

American Foods That Are Banned Abroad (And How They Can Impact Your
Health)
Chlorine-Washed Chicken
Having your chicken washed in chlorine before getting to your plate
probably doesn't sound too appetizing, huh? The European Union sure
doesn't think so. The EU has had a long-standing ban on chicken that's
been washed in chlorine since 1997, yet many chicken companies in the
U.S. still use chlorinated water baths, rinses, and mists as an
antimicrobial treatment to kill bacteria.
<https://www.eatthis.com/american-foods-products-banned-in-other-countries/>

[Ed Pawlowski]

Chlorine? OMG, If it gets in our drinking water it will kill us/

[jmcquown]

Dayum! What about fluoride? Should we have that in drinking water, too?

Jill

[Bruce]

Dense Jill now wants chlorine in her food. Aww :)

[Bruce]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:30:04 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Oh, it was Ed. Soon y'all won't trust food that has no xanthan gum in
it.

[lucr...@florence.it]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:31:24 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>

wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:30:04 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 19:54:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>>On 3/25/2023 7:30 PM, itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:

>>>> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:27:32?PM UTC-5, S Viemeister wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
>>>>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
>>>>>> money more important than animal welfare.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
>>>>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
>>>>>
>>>> That's just what it is a chlorine solution, but Bruce is determined to call it
>>>> bleach, straight bleach.
>>>
>>>Chlorine? OMG, If it gets in our drinking water it will kill us/
>>
>>Dense Jill now wants chlorine in her food. Aww :)
>
>Oh, it was Ed. Soon y'all won't trust food that has no xanthan gum in
>it.

I know there is something about USA chicken that makes it unacceptable
up here.

[Bruce]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:39:22 -0300, lucr...@florence.it wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:31:24 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:30:04 +1100, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>

>>>Dense Jill now wants chlorine in her food. Aww :)
>>
>>Oh, it was Ed. Soon y'all won't trust food that has no xanthan gum in
>>it.
>
>I know there is something about USA chicken that makes it unacceptable
>up here.

After the Brexit, the UK wanted to get chummier with the US, to limit
the trade damage. But it would mean they'd have to accept American
chlorinated chicken and they didn't like that idea. Do you know how
that ended?

[S Viemeister]

I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.

[S Viemeister]

On 25/03/2023 23:42, Bruce wrote:

> American Foods That Are Banned Abroad (And How They Can Impact Your
> Health)
> Chlorine-Washed Chicken
> Having your chicken washed in chlorine before getting to your plate
> probably doesn't sound too appetizing, huh? The European Union sure
> doesn't think so. The EU has had a long-standing ban on chicken that's
> been washed in chlorine since 1997, yet many chicken companies in the
> U.S. still use chlorinated water baths, rinses, and mists as an
> antimicrobial treatment to kill bacteria.
> <https://www.eatthis.com/american-foods-products-banned-in-other-countries/>
>

It's not so much the fact that the chickens are rinsed in a chlorine
solution, but that the conditions in which they are raised, makes this
necessary.

[Bruce]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 02:11:38 +0100, S Viemeister

<firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:

>On 25/03/2023 23:28, Bruce wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister
>> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
>>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
>>>> money more important than animal welfare.
>>>>
>>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
>>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
>>>
>> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.
>>
>I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.

I didn't think you would.

[Bruce]

Yes, and it's those same conditions that makes them sit in their own
urine, which leads to ammonia sores, which then have to be removed
before the chicken is presented to the clueless buyer.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:42:31 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>
> Let's go a bit further with an article from August 2022:
>
> American Foods That Are Banned Abroad (And How They Can Impact Your
> Health)
> Chlorine-Washed Chicken
> Having your chicken washed in chlorine before getting to your plate
> probably doesn't sound too appetizing, huh? The European Union sure
> doesn't think so. The EU has had a long-standing ban on chicken that's
> been washed in chlorine since 1997, yet many chicken companies in the
> U.S. still use chlorinated water baths, rinses, and mists as an
> antimicrobial treatment to kill bacteria.
> <https://www.eatthis.com/american-foods-products-banned-in-other-countries/>
>

One of the worst sites to read. Who cares what this stupid site wants to gripe about?
If you take their advice you'd be only be eating celery and drinking water. But I'd
rather eat chicken that has been sprayed/treated for potential salmonella. Why you've
got your panties in a wad over this when you don't even eat meat is puzzling.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 6:54:27 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Chlorine? OMG, If it gets in our drinking water it will kill us/
>

Yeah, we're all doomed to drop dead tomorrow.

[Dave Smith]

There are chicken farms and chicken processing plants on both sides of
the nearby border and I used to work about a mile and a half from a
border crossing. Some days I would see truck loads of chickens heading
to the US and some days I would see truckloads of American chickens
coming into Canada. There is some planning involved. Processing plants
have limited capacity and chicken farmers feed their birds until the
cost of feeding them is more than the weight they are gaining. They take
the birds to whoever can handle them. People around here don't know if
they are eating Canadian or American chickens.

[Bruce]

So you finally accept that it's true. Why this was so hard for you, I
don't know. I guess you were just being defensive about your country.
How cute :)

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 10:49:19 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> >
> So you finally accept that it's true. Why this was so hard for you, I
> don't know. I guess you were just being defensive about your country.
> How cute :)
>

Drop dead.

[GM]

+1000

--
GM

[Bruce]

Point made. Thank you.

[Gary]

On 3/25/2023 2:56 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 11:40 AM, itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:

>> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 5:16:32 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
>>> money more important than animal welfare.
>>>

>> And I've read that leprechauns are real, too.
>
>
> I wish I knew why Bruce keeps insisting chicken in the US tastes like
> ammonia or bleach.  What sort of twisted faux news is he reading?
>
> Jill

Occasionally, I use bleach in my laundry. Since factory chickens are
washed with bleach, maybe I'll just toss in a chicken thigh next time.

Even better - I just remembered this:

"How harmful are bleach and ammonia fumes?
Mixing bleach and ammonia can be deadly. When combined, these two common
household cleaners release toxic chloramine gas. Exposure to chloramine
gas can cause irritation to your eyes, nose, throat, and lungs. In high
concentrations, it can lead to coma and death."

I seriously doubt the meat packing people are going to wash "ammonia
smelling" chicken with bleach.

Sorry Bruce but you deserve this one. You have to admit that it would
make no sense to do.

[Janet]

In article <6ba30d70-57e2-4499-b6b5-
5231c9...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
says...
>
> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:54:25 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 08:40:38 -0700 (PDT), "itsjoan...@webtv.net"

> > <itsjoan...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 5:16:32 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
> > >> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
> > >> money more important than animal welfare.
> > >>
> > >And I've read that leprechauns are real, too.
> > >

> > You don't believe that Americans wash chicken with bleach? Y'all don't
> > seem to know much about your own food practices. And considering those
> > practices, maybe it's for the best.

>That was ONE store (Food Lion) in ONE location and the
>FDA quickly stopped
that practice.

That is untrue.

American raw whole chickens used to be washed with
chlorine; but now it's commoner to use Peracetic acid
(PAA). PAA is produced by combining acetic acid (vinegar)
and hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide, is bleach.


https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Peracet
ic%20Acid%20Technical%20Report%20Handling.pdf

https://www.nationalchickencouncil.org/questions-answers-
about-antimicrobial-use-in-chicken-processing/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8192870/

"Peracetic acid (PAA) has been recently used as an
antimicrobial in chiller as well as a postchill dip and/
or in a finishing chiller (Kumar et al., 2020). PAA exists
in equilibrium with acetic acid, water, and hydrogen
peroxide (USNLM, 2011), however the proportion of these
mixtures can vary significantly between suppliers, and the
regulatory approvals for PAA vary from 50 ppm to 2000 ppm
(USDA, 2016). This antimicrobial is effective due to its
combined acidic and oxidizing properties (Nagel et al.,
2013). PAA has several advantages over other
antimicrobials such as chlorine, i.e., it does not form
harmful chemical by-products whereas chlorine can form
chloroform and bromodichloromethane when in contact with
high amounts of organic matter during poultry processing.
These by-products are considered human carcinogens and can
pose a potential occupational hazard for the plant workers
(Occupational Safety and Health Administration, 2017)."

Janet UK

[Janet]

In article <6ac04a07-37a6-42c1-94f5-
4844fb...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
says...

>
> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:56:34 PM UTC-5, jmcquown wrote:
> >
> > I wish I knew why Bruce keeps insisting chicken in the US tastes like
> > ammonia or bleach. What sort of twisted faux news is he reading?
> >
> > Jill
> >

> Food Lion got caught doing this in an effort to sell chicken past it's
> best by date. If you believe him, you'd think it's a common thing that
> all stores practice. He just won't let it go.

FDA current approved practice, is washing raw poultry
in PAA, which contains hydrogen peroxide. This happens
when the raw carcases are processed, before they get to
stores.

<https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/
2020-08/Peroxyacetic-Acid.pdf>

HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION SHEET
Peroxyacetic Acid (PAA)
What is peroxyacetic acid?
Peroxyacetic acid (also known as peracetic acid or PAA) is
an organic peroxide
based, colorless liquid with a low pH and a strong,
pungent, vinegar-like odor. In the
concentrated form it is highly corrosive and unstable. PAA
is formed from the
reaction of acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide. Commercial
PAA products contain all
three chemicals in an aqueous solution often with
stabilizers added. The
concentration of PAA as the active ingredient, as well as
the mixture of the other
ingredients, can vary widely.
PAA is used in food and beverage industries as well as
hospitals, health care and
pharmaceutical facilities as an antimicrobial agent,
surface cleaner and sanitizer. In
many meat and poultry establishments it is used on
carcasses, parts, trim and
organs to reduce bacterial contamination and foot
spoilage. It can be applied by a
variety of methods including spray cabinet, dip tank, hand
spray pump and chiller."

Janet UK

[Janet]

In article <93924261-def2-4fdb-aaf9-
406926...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
says...
>
> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 3:51:25 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:

> >
> > On 2023-03-25 4:48 p.m., itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:
> > >
> > > Food Lion got caught doing this in an effort to sell chicken past it's
> > > best by date. If you believe him, you'd think it's a common thing that
> > > all stores practice. He just won't let it go.
> > >

> > The only reason he would know about it was because it was in the news,
> > and the reason it was in the news was that it was wrong.
> >
> I have no gripe that it was in the news, and I have no gripe that what they did
> was wrong and just plain nasty. But to keep dragging up that ancient story
> as if it's a common everyday occurrence in the USA is just plain stupid.

Bruce is not referring to "that ancient story". He's
talking about poultry processing in USA today, using PAA.

Janet UK

[Bruce]

How many links do you need before you believe that Americans treat
chicken meat with chlorine? You don't have to take it from me, you
know. Just do a Google search. Or look at the links I posted. Or go
swim in an Egyptian river :)

[Gary]

On 3/25/2023 4:59 PM, Bruce wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 13:46:30 -0700 (PDT), "itsjoan...@webtv.net"
> <itsjoan...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:54:25 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>> You don't believe that Americans wash chicken with bleach? Y'all don't
>>> seem to know much about your own food practices. And considering those
>>> practices, maybe it's for the best.
>>>
>> That was ONE store (Food Lion) in ONE location and the FDA quickly stopped

>> that practice. It is not an ongoing problem but since it happened 20+ years
>> ago you continually harp on it as if it's an everyday occurrence.
>
> Too fat to stand and their flesh rots while they're alive: The REAL
> reason America's 'Frankenchickens' have to be washed with chlorine
> <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4742712/Why-chickens-washed-chlorine.html>
>
> Chlorinated chicken explained: why do the Americans treat their
> poultry with chlorine?
> <https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/food-safety/chlorinated-chicken-explained-why-do-the-americans-treat-their-poultry-with-chlorine/555618.article>
>
> Chlorine-washed chicken Q&A: food safety expert explains why US
> poultry is banned in the EU
> <https://theconversation.com/chlorine-washed-chicken-qanda-food-safety-expert-explains-why-us-poultry-is-banned-in-the-eu-81921>
>
> Do I need to go on?

No need to go on. I just find it pretty funny that you fear your food so
much.

[jmcquown]

Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
only alternative is to raise your own chickens. People who live in
cities and suburbs are likely not permitted to raise chickens. The
zoning regulations vary.

At any rate, I've never eaten chicken that tasted like ammonia *or*
chlorine. Then again, I always rinse chicken in cold water and pat it
dry before I cook it. My mother did the same and so did her mother.
The difference is, back when Grandma rinsed chicken it was to remove any
little remaining pinfeathers after plucking it. :)

Jill

[jmcquown]

He doesn't even eat chicken. It's nice of him to be so concerned about
those of us who do. ;)

Jill

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 3/25/2023 9:11 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 25/03/2023 23:28, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister
>>> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
>>>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
>>>>> money more important than animal welfare.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
>>>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
>>>>
>>> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.
>>>
>> I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.
>
>
> Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
> only alternative is to raise your own chickens. People who live in
> cities and suburbs are likely not permitted to raise chickens. The
> zoning regulations vary.

An awful lot of towns now permit raising chickens for eggs.
https://billingsbackyardhens.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/major-us-cities-and-nearby-states-allowing-urban-hens/
And those data are a decade old.

I imagine they get a little weird about people slaughtering their
backyard hens, though.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Dave Smith]

Our town does not allow chickens in the urban zones or on rural
properties smaller than one acre.

[Cindy Hamilton]

Anecdote does not equal data.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[jmcquown]

Exactly. The zoning laws for having backyard chickens (not talking
commercial ventures) varies by town. Not everyone has the option to do
so, even if they are so inclined.

Jill

[Cindy Hamilton]

On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 3/26/2023 9:20 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2023-03-26 9:09 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> An awful lot of towns now permit raising chickens for eggs.
>>> https://billingsbackyardhens.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/major-us-cities-and-nearby-states-allowing-urban-hens/
>>> And those data are a decade old.
>>>
>>> I imagine they get a little weird about people slaughtering their
>>> backyard hens, though.
>>>
>>
>> Our town does not allow chickens in the urban zones or on rural
>> properties smaller than one acre.
>>
> Exactly. The zoning laws for having backyard chickens (not talking
> commercial ventures) varies by town. Not everyone has the option to do
> so, even if they are so inclined.

Is this a democracy? Ann Arbor didn't used to allow chickens, but
enough citizens petitioned for that to be changed, and now you can raise
two of them without even asking your neighbors if they mind. More than
two chickens (AIUI) requires permission from all adjacent neighbors.

--
Cindy Hamilton

[Dave Smith]

My neighbours have 9 acres and keep about 2 dozen chickens. If we run
out of eggs I can step out my front door and walk about 25 yards to
their roadside stand and get some. The chickens are no problem for me.
I cannot hear or smell them from my house. We walk our dog past their
coop daily and I rarely hear them even then.

[Dave Smith]

On 2023-03-26 10:19 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> Exactly. The zoning laws for having backyard chickens (not talking
>> commercial ventures) varies by town. Not everyone has the option to do
>> so, even if they are so inclined.
>
> Is this a democracy? Ann Arbor didn't used to allow chickens, but
> enough citizens petitioned for that to be changed, and now you can raise
> two of them without even asking your neighbors if they mind. More than
> two chickens (AIUI) requires permission from all adjacent neighbors.
>

I can understand urban neighbours objected. Having chickens in a back
yard is likely to lead to attracting vermin. Mice and rats are attracted
to the food and others critters are predators that need to be
discouraged. My friend has a nutty neighbour who puts out all sorts of
food for the animals. She thinks she is doing something wonderful by
feeding wild animals. She is attracting rats, mice, squirrels,
chipmunks, opossums, raccoons, skunks, foxes and coyotes. It is a pain
in the ass for all the neighbours.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:26:51 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
> In article <6ba30d70-57e2-4499-b6b5-
> 5231c9...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
> says...
>

> >That was ONE store (Food Lion) in ONE location and the
> >FDA quickly stopped
> that practice.
>
> That is untrue.
>

He was referring to that awful incident several years ago where a grocery
chain (Food Lion) in one location did in fact wash chickens in chlorine
bleach, the stuff you use on whites, to get 'clean them up' in hopes of
getting someone to buy those far beyond they best by use date.

>
> American raw whole chickens used to be washed with
> chlorine; but now it's commoner to use Peracetic acid
> (PAA). PAA is produced by combining acetic acid (vinegar)
> and hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide, is bleach.
>

It was a light chlorine solution, not the full-strength laundry stuff.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:40:02 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>
> In article <93924261-def2-4fdb-aaf9-
> 406926...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
> says...
> > >

> > I have no gripe that it was in the news, and I have no gripe that what they did
> > was wrong and just plain nasty. But to keep dragging up that ancient story
> > as if it's a common everyday occurrence in the USA is just plain stupid.
>
> Bruce is not referring to "that ancient story". He's
> talking about poultry processing in USA today, using PAA.
>
> Janet UK
>

He was originally, he decided to dredge up two 2017 articles to prove
'his point.' Only when we started pushing back that it wasn't pure
chlorine bleach did he back off. But you know as well as I do that he
has this stupid "meat eaters, meat productions are evil, I'm a vegetarian
and I'm far above the masses" spiel.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

Backyard chickens are allowed but NO ROOSTERS.

[itsjoan...@webtv.net]

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 11:05:33 AM UTC-5, itsjoan...@webtv.net wrote:
> >
> Backyard chickens are allowed but NO ROOSTERS.
>

That should read backyard chickens are allowed here but NO ROOSTERS.

[lucr...@florence.it]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:19:54 GMT, Cindy Hamilton
<hami...@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 3/26/2023 9:20 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-26 9:09 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> An awful lot of towns now permit raising chickens for eggs.
>>>> https://billingsbackyardhens.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/major-us-cities-and-nearby-states-allowing-urban-hens/
>>>> And those data are a decade old.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine they get a little weird about people slaughtering their
>>>> backyard hens, though.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Our town does not allow chickens in the urban zones or on rural
>>> properties smaller than one acre.
>>>
>> Exactly. The zoning laws for having backyard chickens (not talking
>> commercial ventures) varies by town. Not everyone has the option to do
>> so, even if they are so inclined.
>
>Is this a democracy? Ann Arbor didn't used to allow chickens, but
>enough citizens petitioned for that to be changed, and now you can raise
>two of them without even asking your neighbors if they mind. More than
>two chickens (AIUI) requires permission from all adjacent neighbors.

They tried it here but all agreed after a year or so, noise levels
were too much and it helped the rat population explode.

[Michael Trew]

On 3/26/2023 9:20, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2023-03-26 9:09 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> An awful lot of towns now permit raising chickens for eggs.
>> https://billingsbackyardhens.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/major-us-cities-and-nearby-states-allowing-urban-hens/
>>
>> And those data are a decade old.
>>
>> I imagine they get a little weird about people slaughtering their
>> backyard hens, though.

Perhaps. It can be hung fairly conspicuously from a tree to drain,
though. I have an old wood handle butcher knife that grandma told me
her father used to behead chickens for many years. I've never
slaughtered or dressed a bird myself.

> Our town does not allow chickens in the urban zones or on rural
> properties smaller than one acre.

Mine does, so as long as it's 6 chickens or fewer; no roosters. Yes,
it's permissible even on a tiny city lot.

[Bruce]

Ah, a non sequitur. (See that, Cindy? It's Latin!)

[Bruce]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 08:24:05 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On 3/25/2023 9:11 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 25/03/2023 23:28, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister
>>> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
>>>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
>>>>
>>> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.
>>>
>> I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.
>
>Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
>only alternative is to raise your own chickens. People who live in
>cities and suburbs are likely not permitted to raise chickens. The
>zoning regulations vary.

Can't you buy better quality chicken in the US? Forget about the
bargain bin for once. Buy something decent if you have to eat meat.

[Bruce]

You probably also don't want barbaric slaughtering rituals right under
your nose. 'They're just tickling the chicken, little girl!"

[Bruce]

On Sun, 26 Mar 2023 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT), "itsjoan...@webtv.net"
<itsjoan...@webtv.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 4:40:02 AM UTC-5, Janet wrote:
>>
>> In article <93924261-def2-4fdb-aaf9-
>> 406926...@googlegroups.com>, itsjoan...@webtv.net
>> says...
>> > >
>> > I have no gripe that it was in the news, and I have no gripe that what they did
>> > was wrong and just plain nasty. But to keep dragging up that ancient story
>> > as if it's a common everyday occurrence in the USA is just plain stupid.
>>
>> Bruce is not referring to "that ancient story". He's
>> talking about poultry processing in USA today, using PAA.
>>
>> Janet UK
>>
>He was originally

No, I wasn't. I never heard that story.

[Janet]

In article <tvpdh7$2md77$1...@dont-email.me>,
j_mc...@comcast.net says...

>
> On 3/25/2023 9:11 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
> > On 25/03/2023 23:28, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister
> >> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
> >>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
> >>>> money more important than animal welfare.
> >>>>
> >>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
> >>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
> >>>
> >> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.
> >>
> > I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.
>
>
> Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
> only alternative is to raise your own chickens.

You're sidestepping the point Bruce made, and is
demonstrated in the thread, that the USA's commercial
poultry business uses methods which USA consumers are
clearly ignorant of. When the public doesn't know how
their food is produced and processed, they are also
ignorant of the effects, risks and consequences to
themselves.

And in no position to force change by consumer pressure
on commercial producers.

Janet UK

[bruce bowser]

On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 7:12:54 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
> In article <tvpdh7$2md77$1...@dont-email.me>,
> j_mc...@comcast.net says...
> >
> > On 3/25/2023 9:11 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
> > > On 25/03/2023 23:28, Bruce wrote:
> > >> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister
> > >> <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 25/03/2023 10:16, Bruce wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I read that, in the US, chicken gets washed with bleach to get rid of
> > >>>> the ammonia. Maybe see if you can taste bleach next time you find
> > >>>> money more important than animal welfare.
> > >>>>
> > >>> Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
> > >>> bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.
> > >>>
> > >> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.
> > >>
> > > I'm Scottish, but I am also American, and _I_ certainly don't deny it.
> >
> >
> > Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
> > only alternative is to raise your own chickens.
>
> You're sidestepping the point Bruce made, and is
> demonstrated in the thread, that the USA's commercial
> poultry business uses methods which USA consumers are
> clearly ignorant of.

And how fully aware are you of how poultry where you are is grown? It all depends upon who pays off the lawyers.

[Bruce]

On Mon, 27 Mar 2023 07:54:58 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
<bruce1....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 7:12:54 AM UTC-4, Janet wrote:
>> In article <tvpdh7$2md77$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> j_mc...@comcast.net says...
>> >

>> > Let's set aside Bruce insisting no one eat meat for the moment. The
>> > only alternative is to raise your own chickens.
>>
>> You're sidestepping the point Bruce made, and is
>> demonstrated in the thread, that the USA's commercial
>> poultry business uses methods which USA consumers are
>> clearly ignorant of.
>
>And how fully aware are you of how poultry where you are is grown? It all depends upon who pays off the lawyers.
>

If the UK doesn't like to import chlorine treated chicken, you can
safely assume that they don't use that practice themselves.

Strange how some Americans react offended when they hear about this.
They're not offended that it happens, they're offended that I told
them about it.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

On 2023-03-25, Bruce <Br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:27:26 +0000, S Viemeister

>>Yes, chicken is washed with a chlorine solution, but it's to kill
>>bacteria, not to get rid of ammonia.

> The point stands and all Americans deny it here.

Personally, I don't care. I've eaten what I wanted and when I wanted, my
whole life. I don't deny anything. Don't like it or the idea of it,
don't eat it. Easy peasy.
I'm all for gamma irradiated meat. Bring it on or prove, scientifically,
that it's not good for me. That hasn't happened, or prove me wrong.
Think of the amount of refrigeration that we wouldn't need. Global
warming and all that. Save the Planet! Irradiate!

[Bruce]

On 28 Mar 2023 07:39:44 GMT, Leonard Blaisdell

I think that, generally speaking, Americans care less what chemicals
have been added to their food and how the animals were treated. They
mainly care about the price. The US is behind and less civilised
compared to the rest of the western world, not that the rest are
perfect.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

On 2023-03-26, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> At any rate, I've never eaten chicken that tasted like ammonia *or*
> chlorine. Then again, I always rinse chicken in cold water and pat it
> dry before I cook it. My mother did the same and so did her mother.
> The difference is, back when Grandma rinsed chicken it was to remove any
> little remaining pinfeathers after plucking it. :)

I'm serious when I say that Mom used soap and water to clean poultry.
She grew up with a different mindset, and good news, I never got sick
from her cooking. She also cooked pork and all vegetables to death.
She wouldn't like the way I cook.

leo

[dsi1]

Well sure, if I was going to eat you, I'd sure appreciate it if you cleaned yourself up too. That's just common courtesy.
OTOH, I sometimes don't rinse my chicken before cooking. That's probably a bad habit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvnzsOh0faA

[Gary]

Bruce wrote:
> I think that, generally speaking, Americans care less what chemicals
> have been added to their food and how the animals were treated. They
> mainly care about the price. The US is behind and less civilised
> compared to the rest of the western world, not that the rest are
> perfect.

Your mission seems clear.

Stop killing and eating animals.
Also stop buying commercial food with long scary ingredient lists.

You're going about it the wrong way, imo, Bruce.

Instead of criticizing what people eat, why don't you provide recipes
as an alternative? You rarely/never do that.

You could leave a bigger "footprint" in your quest rather than just
alienate people here.