Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Ethical issue with a restaurant
258 views
Skip to first unread message
Dave Smith
Jul 2, 2016, 5:57:08 PM7/2/16
to
There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
restaurant for a while.
The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
guilty to a charge of careless driving.
What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
of the accident.
The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
lawsuit.
What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
smell.
I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
To make matters worse,
by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
restaurant for a while.
The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
guilty to a charge of careless driving.
What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
of the accident.
The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
lawsuit.
What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
smell.
I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
To make matters worse,
Jeßus
Jul 2, 2016, 6:02:06 PM7/2/16
to
>To make matters worse,
I await the rest...
Dave Smith
Jul 2, 2016, 6:14:28 PM7/2/16
to
On 2016-07-02 6:01 PM, Je�us wrote:
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
> I don't blame you for feeling that way.
>
Thanks
They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
> I don't blame you for feeling that way.
>
>> To make matters worse,
>
> I await the rest...
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 2, 2016, 7:00:12 PM7/2/16
to
not be safe from having to pay ?
Ro...@home.now
Jul 2, 2016, 7:22:18 PM7/2/16
to
Ross.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 2, 2016, 7:45:35 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,
So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,
for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
continue to patronize the restaurant.
S Viemeister
Jul 2, 2016, 7:52:36 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
(snip)
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>
I wouldn't.
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>
It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 2, 2016, 8:16:23 PM7/2/16
to
existent. You can be sure his lawyer advised him to put his share of
ownership in his wife's name.
You are probably supporting or patronizing or working with more people
that you know that have a law breaking past. Not my job to continue
punishing them if the state did so.
meda...@gmail.com
Jul 2, 2016, 8:45:01 PM7/2/16
to
Despite the fact that I'm a VERY Liberal person, the potential involvement of alcohol seals the deal for me. There is no excuse for driving drunk.
Full disclosure: yes, I used to drive drunk 80s, maybe 90s. Never again. There wasn't as much of a stigma, But the outcomes were no less tragic.
graham
Jul 2, 2016, 8:57:49 PM7/2/16
to
On 02/07/2016 6:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>>>
>> I wouldn't.
>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>>
>
> He made a serious mistake.
A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
>>>
>> I wouldn't.
>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>>
>
> He made a serious mistake.
on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
drunk and ran from the scene!
Graham
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 2, 2016, 9:06:07 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 8:44 PM, meda...@gmail.com wrote:
>> To make matters worse,
>
> I would say, based on just the facts you've presented, Not going there is the "right thing" to do. But keep your ears and eyes open in case there's more to the story.
>
Why is it the right thing to do? It he a repeat offender?
>> To make matters worse,
>
> I would say, based on just the facts you've presented, Not going there is the "right thing" to do. But keep your ears and eyes open in case there's more to the story.
>
> Despite the fact that I'm a VERY Liberal person, the potential involvement of alcohol seals the deal for me. There is no excuse for driving drunk.
>
> Full disclosure: yes, I used to drive drunk 80s, maybe 90s. Never again. There wasn't as much of a stigma, But the outcomes were no less tragic.
>
earn a living? Should your business be closed, thus putting others out
of a job? Please explain how that is the "right thing to do"
Full disclosure: In 1968 I drove 2 miles to home when drunk. Bad
hangover was enough that I never got drunk again.
Yes, he should be punished but others like him employees should not be.
No matter the outcome plenty of people will be negatively affected
though they did nothing.
Exceptions would be repeat offenders, child molesters and similar.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 2, 2016, 9:48:27 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 8:57 PM, graham wrote:
> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!
> Graham
>
Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!
> Graham
>
drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-suspect-drove-a-mile-with-victim-lodged-in-front-windshield/
S Viemeister
Jul 2, 2016, 10:01:54 PM7/2/16
to
It's highly unlikely that the booze was poured into his mouth against
his will.
Julie Bove
Jul 2, 2016, 10:08:00 PM7/2/16
to
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:L8ydncxpz52Kz-XK...@giganews.com...
necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not connect
the person to the business.
My parents were friends with restaurant owners. They divorced. Although my
parents loved the restaurant, they felt they could not go there because it
would be like showing favoritism to the person who wound up with the place
in the divorce settlement. And as it turned out, they ended up sort of not
being friends with either person any more for that reason as well.
Jeßus
Jul 2, 2016, 10:15:48 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 21:48:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-suspect-drove-a-mile-with-victim-lodged-in-front-windshield/
Maybe she merely wanted to pick him up and take him home for a quickie
>Maybe. He may have been so drunk he did not know. Recently a woman
>drove home with a dead man stuck in her windshield.
>http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/dui-suspect-drove-a-mile-with-victim-lodged-in-front-windshield/
after not scoring during her night out.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 2, 2016, 10:41:15 PM7/2/16
to
On 7/2/2016 10:07 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> The thing is... Stuff like this is happening all around us but we don't
> necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
> accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not
> connect the person to the business.
Sadly there is a lot of it. often starts even before drinking age.
>
> The thing is... Stuff like this is happening all around us but we don't
> necessarily know who these people are. Yeah, we might hear about some
> accident on the news or on Facebook or whatever. But we might not
> connect the person to the business.
Some never learn and repeat often. Others do.
We have an employee that killed a girl driving drunk. He spent a couple
of years in jail and probation for more. He no longer drives. He works
for us full time and a couple of years ago took a second job so he could
put two daughters through college. His past mistake aside, he has been
a model citizen. If he was denied a living, other people would have
suffered more than they did.
>
> My parents were friends with restaurant owners. They divorced. Although
> my parents loved the restaurant, they felt they could not go there
> because it would be like showing favoritism to the person who wound up
> with the place in the divorce settlement. And as it turned out, they
> ended up sort of not being friends with either person any more for that
> reason as well.
spouse more than the other. Real friends can still remain friends.
Evidently these were more in the acquaintance category.
sf
Jul 2, 2016, 11:02:57 PM7/2/16
to
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!
He also went to jail and served his time.
> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
> drunk and ran from the scene!
--
sf
Cheri
Jul 3, 2016, 1:42:03 AM7/3/16
to
"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:dtra0e...@mid.individual.net...
Cheri
Cheryl
Jul 3, 2016, 2:24:06 AM7/3/16
to
--
ღ.¸¸.✫*¨`*✶
Cheryl
Cheryl
Jul 3, 2016, 2:27:02 AM7/3/16
to
On 7/2/2016 8:44 PM, meda...@gmail.com wrote:
along with the pills, but I will never get behind the wheel when I do no
matter what.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 2:56:51 AM7/3/16
to
"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:dtra0e...@mid.individual.net...
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 3:01:19 AM7/3/16
to
news:SKWdnbwnU9Pe5uXK...@giganews.com...
Quite likely. My brother and I tried to have a 50th anniversary party for
them but they said not to bother as they really had no friends. The people
they had considered friends over the years were restaurant owners, wait
staff, Drs. dentists, people like that. Although I can be friendly with
those people, I don't consider them to be my friends.
them but they said not to bother as they really had no friends. The people
they had considered friends over the years were restaurant owners, wait
staff, Drs. dentists, people like that. Although I can be friendly with
those people, I don't consider them to be my friends.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 6:48:18 AM7/3/16
to
Gary
Jul 3, 2016, 8:12:18 AM7/3/16
to
lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
year in jail for "careless driving?"
Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
>
> S Viemeister wrote:
> >I wouldn't.
> >It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
> >choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>
> Ditto
I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> S Viemeister wrote:
> >I wouldn't.
> >It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
> >choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>
> Ditto
them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
year in jail for "careless driving?"
Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 8:26:20 AM7/3/16
to
time life was taken away so brutally and senselessly. Might as well
let him out to do that than tax payers support him and gain nothing
for her. He can't argue he didn't know, he left them lying there.
Coward amongst other things.
Nancy Young
Jul 3, 2016, 9:12:54 AM7/3/16
to
this story. Like finding out that gorgeous guy is a horrible
person, he loses his attraction. I wouldn't eat there.
nancy
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 9:16:25 AM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 8:13 AM, Gary wrote:
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> S Viemeister wrote:
> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
> year in jail for "careless driving?"
The story was that he went home and had a few drinks. Since he left the
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> S Viemeister wrote:
> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
> year in jail for "careless driving?"
scene of the accident and was not given a road site test, there is no
evidence that he was driving drunk. He most definitely spent a few
hours drinking at a bar in town. Careless driving is a criminal code
offense, unlike careless driving.
> Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
> would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
> could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
> him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
thought perhaps he no longer had anything to do with it. Then it seemed
that he was hoping to save it from the inevitable law suit. Later on I
was told that she was with him when it happened. so that makes her just
as bad as him.
> No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 9:17:14 AM7/3/16
to
> I think the judge in that case had a Broken Gavel.
>
Bingo.
>
Gary
Jul 3, 2016, 10:39:44 AM7/3/16
to
out what he did and how he only got a handslap, many prisoners with kids
will make it very hard time for him. Even better would be...while he's
in prison, constantly getting raped and beat up, wife runs off with his
best friend and all the money he transfered to her. LOL... That would be
better justice. Even better justice would be to charge the wife too as
she was right with him.
And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
should pay them forever for that.
I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
daughter that got her life ruined.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 11:28:55 AM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>
> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.
>
> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.
>
I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
>
> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.
>
> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.
>
know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?
Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 11:40:04 AM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-02 8:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
I am not judge and jury. He had his day in court. If had been the judge
> On 7/2/2016 7:52 PM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 7/2/2016 7:45 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> (snip)
>>>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>>>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>>>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>>>
>>> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
>>> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living
>>> is going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
>>> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>>>
>>> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
>>> continue to patronize the restaurant.
and jury he would have been sentenced to a lot more.
>>>
>> I wouldn't.
>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
but he isn't going to make any money off me.
> He made a serious mistake. That does not mean his morals are non
> existent. You can be sure his lawyer advised him to put his share of
> ownership in his wife's name.
>
> You are probably supporting or patronizing or working with more people
> that you know that have a law breaking past. Not my job to continue
> punishing them if the state did so.
affect you for the rest of your life. I don't like doing business with
sleazy people. I think that what this guy did is reprehensible. First
of all, he was driving drunk. He hit two people and left them for dead.
Then he scooted home and drank more so that they could not prove he was
drunk at the time of the accident. Then they pulled the ownership
switcheroo which may try to hide the assets from the inevitable lawsuit.
At this point, IMO, there is no argument that he has paid his debt. He
fled to avoid the consequences of his DUI. He copped a plea for a light
sentence. He has done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes. He have
have good food and good prices, but we will not be getting any business
from me.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 11:45:05 AM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
more like 6 months.
> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.
The victim is a member of our community and it is a small town. The
family are friends of friends. I wonder how some people would feel if
the guy had been convicted of a violent, racially motivated crime, or a
sexual assault on a child. I would not hire someone to work in my house
if the had criminal records for theft or violence. The courts are
removed from the situation but people in the community have to deal
with their attitudes.
> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.
It is a year in jail, not prison. It won't even be a year. It will be
> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
> should pay them forever for that.
more like 6 months.
> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
> daughter that got her life ruined.
family are friends of friends. I wonder how some people would feel if
the guy had been convicted of a violent, racially motivated crime, or a
sexual assault on a child. I would not hire someone to work in my house
if the had criminal records for theft or violence. The courts are
removed from the situation but people in the community have to deal
with their attitudes.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 11:46:40 AM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 11:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>
>> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
>> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
>> should pay them forever for that.
>>
>> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
>> daughter that got her life ruined.
>>
>
> I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
> know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
> of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?
They could sell the business.
> On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>
>> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
>> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
>> should pay them forever for that.
>>
>> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
>> daughter that got her life ruined.
>>
>
> I can't say for sure what I would do as it was not my daughter. I do
> know that I don't want to see his business closed and his employees out
> of a job. What good comes from that? Would it make YOU feel better?
> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
as if a restaurant's failure is going to ruin their waiting career.
Gary
Jul 3, 2016, 11:49:05 AM7/3/16
to
often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 12:21:15 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>>
>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>
> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>
Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers. Dime
>>
>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>
> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>
a dozen careers no sense worrying about them. They can easuly find work.
Nunya Bidnits
Jul 3, 2016, 1:03:25 PM7/3/16
to
>There is a
clip
plonk yet another self-righteous OT crap thread from Dave Smith
clip
plonk yet another self-righteous OT crap thread from Dave Smith
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 1:07:25 PM7/3/16
to
col...@gmail.com
Jul 3, 2016, 1:31:19 PM7/3/16
to
I've never driven drunk but I have ridden with drunk drivers which was stupid.
Ophelia
Jul 3, 2016, 1:36:39 PM7/3/16
to
news:Sdydnf8Fu-jvpuTK...@giganews.com...
What do house painters have to do with the restaurant? Or is that just to
upset Gary?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
upset Gary?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Paul M. Cook
Jul 3, 2016, 2:56:38 PM7/3/16
to
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:QMWdz.13739$%K5....@fx37.iad...
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run accident.
> He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was not too
> seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was thrown
> more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a serious brain
> injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he took off and left
> them for dead. The police tracked down his car the next morning and
> arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they arrested him, but
> they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the crimes
> of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run accident.
> He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was not too
> seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was thrown
> more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a serious brain
> injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he took off and left
> them for dead. The police tracked down his car the next morning and
> arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they arrested him, but
> they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the crimes
> of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and it
> is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to patronize a
> place that is owned by people who would do something like that. They
> ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the woman's
> family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad smell.
>
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and it
> is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to patronize a
> place that is owned by people who would do something like that. They
> ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the woman's
> family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go there.
> Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
Then don't. FWIW every restaurant owner I have worked for in my youth was
> Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
a drug addled, drunk, miserable SOB on their third marriage who if they were
not stealing tips they were boffing the waitresses in the bathroom while
their wives worked the kitchen.
Go find another place to eat.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Paul M. Cook
Jul 3, 2016, 3:00:43 PM7/3/16
to
news:L8ydncxpz52Kz-XK...@giganews.com...
business. if I got wind he kicked his dog my business would end at that
instant.
> On 7/2/2016 5:58 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
>> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>> restaurant for a while.
>>
>> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>>
>
>> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
>> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
>> restaurant for a while.
>>
>> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
>> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>>
>
>> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make matters worse,
>> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
>> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
>> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
>> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
>> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
>> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
>> smell.
>>
>> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
>> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
>> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living is
> going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.
Just being a business owner is not an entitlement. Nobody owes him
> So why don't you suggest he be executed? Yes, the law should punish him
> for irresponsible behavior but to deny him the ability to make a living is
> going beyond the law. Perhaps she should be to and I'm sure she is
> getting some share of the financial and emotional stress.
>
> If you want to be judge, jury, executioner that is your choice. I'd
> continue to patronize the restaurant.
business. if I got wind he kicked his dog my business would end at that
instant.
Cheryl
Jul 3, 2016, 3:24:35 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
the coward's way out and flee the scene. Just unimaginable to me that
someone wouldn't have enough of a conscience and still live with
themselves.
dsi1
Jul 3, 2016, 3:26:38 PM7/3/16
to
On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 11:57:08 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> There is a restaurant in our town that opened about two years ago. It is
> by far the best one that has been in that location over the years. They
> have great food and very reasonable prices. It was our favourite
> restaurant for a while.
>
> The owner/chef has just been sentenced to a year in jail after pleading
> guilty to a charge of careless driving.
>
> What we know to be true is that he was involved in a hit and run
> accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
> not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
> thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
> serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
> took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
> next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
> arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
> of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
> crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> accident. He hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. The boy was
> not too seriously hurt, but the girl was in really rough shape. She was
> thrown more than 60 feet, suffered a number of broken bones and a
> serious brain injury. Her life has been ruined. It was 2:30 am and he
> took off and left them for dead. The police tracked down his car the
> next morning and arrested him. They said he was intoxicated when they
> arrested him, but they have no proof that he was intoxicated at the time
> of the accident.
>
> The man has given up his share of the restaurant, which he and his wife
> had co-owned. I suspect he did that in to shield it from the inevitable
> lawsuit.
>
> What I have heard, an apparently from very reliable sources, is that he
> was drunk when he left another bar in which he has some sort of interest
> and was heading home. Someone my son knows was at the other bar and saw
> them drinking... quite a bit. Moreover, the wife was with him at the bar
> and in the car with him. It is bad enough that he signed it over to her
> to try to hide it from the lawsuit, but IMO, she is a party to the
> crimes of DUI and the hit and run.
>
> I had been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until the
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,
Hopefully, you know exactly what you have to do. One shouldn't have to rely on disinterested third parties for advice on matters of morality. Well that's the way it ought to be anyway.
> criminal case was settled... . until I heard the other details. I have
> not been able to bring myself to go there. It is a good restaurant and
> it is the closest one to my house, but I cannot bring myself to
> patronize a place that is owned by people who would do something like
> that. They ruined a young woman's life and they ruined the lives of the
> woman's family. Everything about the case leaves them with a really bad
> smell.
>
> I know that a lot of people feel the same way I do and will not go
> there. Yet, many others will. The place is packed all the time.
> They obviously won't miss my business, but I still can't do it.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 3:47:35 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 1:36 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:Sdydnf8Fu-jvpuTK...@giganews.com...
>> On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>>>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>>>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>>>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>>>
>>> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
>>> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
>>> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
>>> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>>>
>>
>> Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers.
>> Dime a dozen careers no sense worrying about them. They can easily
>
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
> news:Sdydnf8Fu-jvpuTK...@giganews.com...
>> On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>>>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>>>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>>>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>>>
>>> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
>>> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
>>> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
>>> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>>>
>>
>> Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers.
>> find work.
>
> What do house painters have to do with the restaurant? Or is that just
> to upset Gary?
>
Gary is not concerned about how others will be affected by what happens
>
> What do house painters have to do with the restaurant? Or is that just
> to upset Gary?
>
with the continued punishment of the offender. Why be concerned about
how anyone earns a living?
Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
Perhaps he should be executed.
Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 3:57:19 PM7/3/16
to
his life. Before he is executed though, maybe he should be given a
chance to make some reparations. Could go either way. Maybe a useless
jerk, maybe a guy that can turn it around and do some good. We won't
know if Dave hits the switch on the electric chair.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 4:03:08 PM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 3:47 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Gary is not concerned about how others will be affected by what happens
> with the continued punishment of the offender. Why be concerned about
> how anyone earns a living?
>
> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him. Perhaps
> he should be executed.
>
> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
It's not as if I am out there with the torches and pitchforks driving
> Gary is not concerned about how others will be affected by what happens
> with the continued punishment of the offender. Why be concerned about
> how anyone earns a living?
>
> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him. Perhaps
> he should be executed.
>
> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
him out of town. I simply cannot patronize a restaurant when I know that
something like that has happened. From what I have learned, he was not
the only one who made the mistake of driving while intoxicated, driving
off the road and hitting someone hard enough to send them flying more
than 60 feet through the air, inflicting life threatening injuries and
then driving off and leaving her to die, going home and having a bunch
of drinks so that when the cops showed up he could say he had been
drinking at home, and then shifting the ownership of an asset that could
be lost in a law suit.
I believe I stated quite clearly that my personal boycott is not going
to hurt the guy's business because the place is always busy. I just
cannot bring myself to patronize it.
FWIW, I did go there a a few times after the incident. I was prepared to
accept that there might have been another side to the story. The idea
of a bunch of teens out on the road at 2:30 am left all sorts of
possibilities. Then the facts came out and he has been to court and was
convicted.
That is not the end of his legal trouble. I heard from a friend of the
family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
dsi1
Jul 3, 2016, 4:17:30 PM7/3/16
to
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 4:42:46 PM7/3/16
to
for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
frequently, they will find other jobs.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 4:44:01 PM7/3/16
to
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 4:45:57 PM7/3/16
to
(not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
woman's fault when she is raped ?
graham
Jul 3, 2016, 4:46:23 PM7/3/16
to
sufficient reparations?
Any criminal, apart from some rogues, sooner or later, pays his debt to
society.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 5:01:41 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>> That is not the end of his legal trouble. I heard from a friend of the
>> family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
>> the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
>> were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
>> I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
>> for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
>> drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
>
> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>
I don't think it is the same.
>> That is not the end of his legal trouble. I heard from a friend of the
>> family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
>> the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
>> were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
>> I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
>> for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
>> drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
>
> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>
There is more to the story though, once you dig into it. There are many
ways the accident could have been avoided. Forget legalities for a
second and just look at the morality. If you allowed the teens to drink
at your house would you feel guilty afterwards? You had the opportunity
to prevent it and yet you did not.
Bartender? Yes, some blame there if he was serving a person impaired
already.
Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess. Most of us
don't know everything our kids did.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 5:32:02 PM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 4:42 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>
> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>
FWIW, a couple weeks ago we were at the dog park and met a nice lady and
> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>
> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>
her daughter, who had just started working at the restaurant in
question. I turned the filter one and squelched the urge to tell her
why we cannot patronize the place.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 5:37:40 PM7/3/16
to
partly. He now has a record that might see him barred entry to the US.
Being close to the border, most people around here do a lot of cross
border shopping. He still has a lawsuit to contend with. Most people
only carry $1-2 million in liability insurance. Given the girl's age
and severity of the injuries, I would be willing to bet that his
coverage won't cover the award.
sf
Jul 3, 2016, 5:39:13 PM7/3/16
to
> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
> Perhaps he should be executed.
>
> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
Agree.
> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
> Perhaps he should be executed.
>
> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
--
sf
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 5:49:41 PM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 5:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
>> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
>> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>>
>
> I don't think it is the same.
Some people operate under the premise that a victim never in anyway at
> On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
>> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
>> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>>
>
> I don't think it is the same.
fault for something bad that happens. No one can ever be in any way an
author of their own misfortune.
> There is more to the story though, once you dig into it. There are many
> ways the accident could have been avoided. Forget legalities for a
> second and just look at the morality. If you allowed the teens to drink
> at your house would you feel guilty afterwards? You had the opportunity
> to prevent it and yet you did not.
>
> Bartender? Yes, some blame there if he was serving a person impaired
> already.
certificate in order to be able to sell wine at a charity event. The
training covers the legalities of serving alcohol and talks about the
server's responsibility for the welfare of the customers, not only while
he is drinking in the establishment, but after he leaves and until he is
sober. You are supposed to size up the person and estimate the number of
standard sized drinks per hour he can handle without getting
intoxicated. Then there is the liability for things that might happen
after the customer leaves.... like driving drunk and crippling or
killing someone.
FWIW... shortly after my son opened a microbrewery restaurant in Toronto
there was a fatal accident involving some people who had been at his
bar. The cops came, interviewed the servers, viewed the security
cameras and checked the bills. The servers and bar were cleared of any
wrongdoing.
> Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess. Most of us
> don't know everything our kids did.
able to hold my liquor, but a lot of kids used to binge drink. From
what I see of kids today, binge drinking is even more of a problem.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 6:29:26 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 4:42 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
>> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
>> Perhaps he should be executed.
>>
>> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
>> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
>> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
>> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
>
> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>
> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>
OK then, toss them out. It has your blessing, among others.
>>
>> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
>> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
>> Perhaps he should be executed.
>>
>> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
>> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
>> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
>> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
>
> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>
> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>
What is your solution? Surely you have a plan since you condemn his
actions and are taking away his ability to make a living and don't care
what happens to his employees.
Seems your choices are either imprison or otherwise house and feed him
for life or execute him. No one has suggested an alternative yet. Just
as he should be held responsible for his actios, so should you. You
want his business to fail so now what?
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 6:44:12 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 4:04 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> It's not as if I am out there with the torches and pitchforks driving
> him out of town. I simply cannot patronize a restaurant when I know that
> something like that has happened.
The RFC pitchfork team is getting lined up though.
>
> It's not as if I am out there with the torches and pitchforks driving
> him out of town. I simply cannot patronize a restaurant when I know that
> something like that has happened.
>
> I believe I stated quite clearly that my personal boycott is not going
> to hurt the guy's business because the place is always busy. I just
> cannot bring myself to patronize it.
reasons, sensible, emotional, or just plain silly, so go ahead.
>
> That is not the end of his legal trouble. I heard from a friend of the
> family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
> the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
> were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
> I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
> for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
> drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
>
conclusions and a lot of people end up suffering. Often more than one
person has a bit of responsibility too. Underage drinking is pretty
widespread and many parents don't seem to be concerned about it.
Chances are this is not the first time this guy has driven drunk either,
just has not been caught. He may end up losing his business anyway.
IMO, it is too early to say if he is just a despicable character or if
he will turn around and do some good to help others. We'll see.
Jeßus
Jul 3, 2016, 6:49:21 PM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:29:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>On 7/3/2016 4:42 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
>>> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
>>> Perhaps he should be executed.
>>>
>>> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
>>> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
>>> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
>>> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
>>
>> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
>> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
>> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
>> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
>> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
>> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>>
>> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
>> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>>
>
>OK then, toss them out. It has your blessing, among others.
>
>What is your solution? Surely you have a plan since you condemn his
>actions and are taking away his ability to make a living and don't care
>what happens to his employees.
It's a slippery slope taking the position that such businesses should
>On 7/3/2016 4:42 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yes, the offender should be punished but some here seem to want him
>>> purged from society forever no matter who gets dragged with him.
>>> Perhaps he should be executed.
>>>
>>> Knee jerk reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. OK, now what
>>> should happen to the guy? Never be employed again? Never own a
>>> business? Now that you put him out of business you should have a next
>>> step or you are as guilty of ruining a life as he is. What's next?
>>
>> I'm surprised you have this reaction. I am anti-capital punishment,
>> for fear of executing an innocent person. In this case we know he was
>> drinking, he hit the girls (ruining one girl for life and condemning
>> her parents to a life of worry for her) He didn't stop, he ran,
>> either he wanted to pass the alcohol check or he thought he could get
>> away with it. Him, him, him - what about the girl ?
>>
>> I am sorry for his employees but it's a job where they change
>> frequently, they will find other jobs.
>>
>
>OK then, toss them out. It has your blessing, among others.
>
>What is your solution? Surely you have a plan since you condemn his
>actions and are taking away his ability to make a living and don't care
>what happens to his employees.
be shunned. You would surely also have to ask yourself about certain
corporations that behave unethically, for example. Of course, you
rarely hear about their poor behaviour (in mainstream media at least)
and their impact on society. And there's an awful lot of those out
there...
>Seems your choices are either imprison or otherwise house and feed him
>for life or execute him. No one has suggested an alternative yet. Just
>as he should be held responsible for his actios, so should you. You
>want his business to fail so now what?
IMO. You can't then go and cherry pick some notable exceptions - who
gets to decide and agree on that?
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 7:01:48 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 5:50 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>> Bartender? Yes, some blame there if he was serving a person impaired
>> already.
>
> I had to take the Ontario Smart Serve course and write an exam and get a
> certificate in order to be able to sell wine at a charity event. The
> training covers the legalities of serving alcohol and talks about the
> server's responsibility for the welfare of the customers, not only while
> he is drinking in the establishment, but after he leaves and until he is
> sober. You are supposed to size up the person and estimate the number of
> standard sized drinks per hour he can handle without getting
> intoxicated. Then there is the liability for things that might happen
> after the customer leaves.... like driving drunk and crippling or
> killing someone.
>
There was a case a few years back where a bartender was found liable.
>>
>> Bartender? Yes, some blame there if he was serving a person impaired
>> already.
>
> I had to take the Ontario Smart Serve course and write an exam and get a
> certificate in order to be able to sell wine at a charity event. The
> training covers the legalities of serving alcohol and talks about the
> server's responsibility for the welfare of the customers, not only while
> he is drinking in the establishment, but after he leaves and until he is
> sober. You are supposed to size up the person and estimate the number of
> standard sized drinks per hour he can handle without getting
> intoxicated. Then there is the liability for things that might happen
> after the customer leaves.... like driving drunk and crippling or
> killing someone.
>
It was a regular customer and he had only one drink, same as he does
every day. What the bartender did no now was that the guy stopped at a
couple of other bars along the way and a few more drinks under his belt.
He did not "look" impaired.
Years ago, no one much cared. Drive slow.
>
>
>
>> Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess. Most of us
>> don't know everything our kids did.
>
> Maybe you were different from some of us when you were a teen. I was
> able to hold my liquor, but a lot of kids used to binge drink. From
> what I see of kids today, binge drinking is even more of a problem.
>
later none of out old crowd from school days seems to have a problem.
We all drink, but with moderation.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 7:08:12 PM7/3/16
to
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:Sdydnf8Fu-jvpuTK...@giganews.com...
> On 7/3/2016 11:50 AM, Gary wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Of course he should be punished severely, but there does not have to be
>>> more victims than there are already. If you disagree, and you seem to,
>>> please explain the benefits of it. Tell me how the cook, waitress,
>>> dishwasher will have a better life when he closes up.
>>
>> The cook, waitress, dishwasher will move on to another job. That happens
>> often in the restaurant business. It's not like they will be put out on
>> the street with starving families. Meanwhile, the teenage girl with
>> brain damage can't move on. Think about her.
>>
>
> Restaurant staff, burger flippers, house painters, truck drivers. Dime a
I know you are joking. But some people don't easily go from one job to
another. And if you've had one job for a long time, starting over can be
difficult because you likely won't get the same benefits at the new place. I
do know restaurant people who had the same job for many, many years.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 7:13:14 PM7/3/16
to
"Ophelia" <OphEl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dtt0p2...@mid.individual.net...
are meaningless. He is pointing out that they are no more meaningless than
anyone else. I do know people who talk like this and think like this. I
would never put anyone down for what they do. Just because they are doing
what some might consider to be a menial job... Someone has to do it. And
there are plenty of people out there who are working at a job that is
beneath their skill level. For various reasons. It's not my place to judge.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 7:15:08 PM7/3/16
to
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 7:18:47 PM7/3/16
to
news:YL-dnXzxBPCw4OTK...@giganews.com...
Drinking and on foot is not good either. Illegal in most places. A drunk
person walking is still bad and could still cause an accident by walking
into the road.
Parents shouldn't let kids drink at all. Mine did allow me sips of things
from time to time. And I did do things that I shouldn't have. But that was
back in the 70's and pretty much everyone was doing as I did. Lots of
smokers back then too. Different times and now we know better.
person walking is still bad and could still cause an accident by walking
into the road.
Parents shouldn't let kids drink at all. Mine did allow me sips of things
from time to time. And I did do things that I shouldn't have. But that was
back in the 70's and pretty much everyone was doing as I did. Lots of
smokers back then too. Different times and now we know better.
jmcquown
Jul 3, 2016, 7:33:56 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/2/2016 11:02 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>
> He also went to jail and served his time.
>
Dave said he was just sentenced, which means he hasn't served the year
yet. However there's no real documentation to go with his post and much
of what he wrote "from reliable sources" sounds like speculation and gossip.
I do agree drinking is no excuse. Years ago my nephew was hit by an
unlicensed drunk driver (a repeat offender). He was driving his
sister's (uninsured) pickup truck. The guy's sister knew he wasn't
supposed to be driving; apparently she didn't care.
My nephew was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk in the suburb where he
lived. It appears the driver passed out, jumped the curb, hit my nephew
(who was seriously injured) then plowed into the front of a house. The
truck was littered with empties. I don't really know what the
disposition of the case turned out to be. I do know there was no auto
insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
Jill
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>
> He also went to jail and served his time.
>
Dave said he was just sentenced, which means he hasn't served the year
yet. However there's no real documentation to go with his post and much
of what he wrote "from reliable sources" sounds like speculation and gossip.
I do agree drinking is no excuse. Years ago my nephew was hit by an
unlicensed drunk driver (a repeat offender). He was driving his
sister's (uninsured) pickup truck. The guy's sister knew he wasn't
supposed to be driving; apparently she didn't care.
My nephew was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk in the suburb where he
lived. It appears the driver passed out, jumped the curb, hit my nephew
(who was seriously injured) then plowed into the front of a house. The
truck was littered with empties. I don't really know what the
disposition of the case turned out to be. I do know there was no auto
insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
Jill
dsi1
Jul 3, 2016, 7:36:55 PM7/3/16
to
On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 1:15:08 PM UTC-10, Julie Bove wrote:
> "dsi1" <dsiom> wrote in message
This happened in Lynnwood WA but I cannot remember the name of the store. It's just as well.
> "dsi1" <dsiom> wrote in message
jmcquown
Jul 3, 2016, 7:41:42 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 8:26 AM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:13:20 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>> S Viemeister wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't.
>>>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>>>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>>
>>>
>>> Ditto
>>
>> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
>> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
>> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
>> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
>> year in jail for "careless driving?"
>>
>> Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
>> would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
>> could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
>> him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
>>
>> No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
>
> For the rest of his life he should have to support the girl whose real
> time life was taken away so brutally and senselessly. Might as well
> let him out to do that than tax payers support him and gain nothing
> for her. He can't argue he didn't know, he left them lying there.
> Coward amongst other things.
>
*IF* his wife was with him she should be equally culpable. I don't know
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:13:20 -0400, Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>>>
>>> S Viemeister wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't.
>>>> It's not me denying him the ability to make a living, it's me not
>>>> choosing to support someone whose morals are non-existent.
>>
>>>
>>> Ditto
>>
>> I agree with you two and Dave. The guy ran over two teenagers then left
>> them for dead or whatever. Didn't even stop to help. Seriously messed up
>> the girl then sold his half of the business to his wife to avoid losing
>> that value in a pending lawsuit. WTH? And he only got sentenced to one
>> year in jail for "careless driving?"
>>
>> Lucky for him that he didn't live here in Virginia. I guarantee you he
>> would have gotten 20-30 years with no parole and I would agree. Doubt he
>> could hide his money by transfering it to the wife...who was also with
>> him. She should be sentenced for not reporting the accident.
>>
>> No way would I patronize their restaurant ever again.
>
> For the rest of his life he should have to support the girl whose real
> time life was taken away so brutally and senselessly. Might as well
> let him out to do that than tax payers support him and gain nothing
> for her. He can't argue he didn't know, he left them lying there.
> Coward amongst other things.
>
about the DUI laws in the various Canadian provinces. In the US the
laws vary by state. In Tennessee you can be arrested for DUI even if
you're just a passenger. Ditto if you've been drinking and are simply
sitting in a parked car, as long as the keys are in your possession.
Jill
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 7:52:15 PM7/3/16
to
where liquor is served ?
jmcquown
Jul 3, 2016, 7:54:05 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ?
The guy hit two teenagers who were standing on a lawn. There was no
> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ?
mention until later follow-ups to the thread that the kids had been to a
party where there was drinking. Standing on a lawn, even while
intoxicated, isn't against the law AFAIK. Underage drinking is, of
course, but where is the proof they'd actually been imbibing?
Jill
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 7:56:23 PM7/3/16
to
support of the girl, whether or not there is an insurance payout. Less
than a year and getting rid of his business to his wife, seems to easy
to me for such a life altering crime.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 7:57:38 PM7/3/16
to
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 8:00:01 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 7:12 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> He's being facetious. Several people were talking as though restaurant
> staff are meaningless. He is pointing out that they are no more
> meaningless than anyone else. I do know people who talk like this and
> think like this. I would never put anyone down for what they do. Just
> because they are doing what some might consider to be a menial job...
> Someone has to do it. And there are plenty of people out there who are
> working at a job that is beneath their skill level. For various reasons.
> It's not my place to judge.
Julie got it right!
>
> He's being facetious. Several people were talking as though restaurant
> staff are meaningless. He is pointing out that they are no more
> meaningless than anyone else. I do know people who talk like this and
> think like this. I would never put anyone down for what they do. Just
> because they are doing what some might consider to be a menial job...
> Someone has to do it. And there are plenty of people out there who are
> working at a job that is beneath their skill level. For various reasons.
> It's not my place to judge.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 8:04:24 PM7/3/16
to
sued her employer because she got into an accident driving home after a
company Christmas party. As I recall, she had a glass of wine, maybe
two, at the employer's party. They offered her a ride home. They offered
to get her a taxi. She declined. Instead of going home, she went to a
bar and had a number of drinks there. It was after she left that bar
that she crashed.
If I ran the world, there would have been no liability on the part of
the employer. She was not drunk or over the limit when she left their
party. She got drunk at the other place. The bar was found to be mostly
liable and the employer only partially liable..... but... the bar had
gone belly up, leaving the employer liable for the whole amount.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 8:05:56 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 7:18 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> Drinking and on foot is not good either. Illegal in most places. A drunk
> person walking is still bad and could still cause an accident by walking
> into the road.
>
Happened in town here a few years ago. A lady heard a thump, thump.
>
> Drinking and on foot is not good either. Illegal in most places. A drunk
> person walking is still bad and could still cause an accident by walking
> into the road.
>
Turned out to be the local drunk/druggie that is always walking around
town. No charges filed.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 3, 2016, 8:06:44 PM7/3/16
to
anything like what the local village idiot suggests, rather that
anytime things can change. Perhaps in those jobs things are more
likely to change but equally, it is work where there are plenty more
opportunities for the same.
Actually, if you are known to be a good server, places will compete
for you. At my local pub the server I really like frequently gets
offers from other pubs but she knows where she is valued.
However, her boss is not a drunk driver and I think if he were she
would be the first to condemn and move on.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 8:17:31 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 7:52 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
> With a criminal record is he allowed to work (for his wife) in an area
> where liquor is served ?
>
I found this"
> With a criminal record is he allowed to work (for his wife) in an area
> where liquor is served ?
>
Washington State and Indiana have laws against bartending with Felonies
or serving with felony or criminal record. To the best of our
knowledge, in all other states, if you have legal problems or a felony,
you can still be a bartender.
Depending on what he is convicted of and what the terms of the sentence
or probation, he may be barred from any place serving alcohol. Canada
may be different.
sf
Jul 3, 2016, 8:19:48 PM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 19:33:52 -0400, jmcquown <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> I do know there was no auto
> insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
Was your nephew an adult? If not, why didn't his father's insurance
cover it?
--
sf
wrote:
> I do know there was no auto
> insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
cover it?
--
sf
jmcquown
Jul 3, 2016, 8:30:07 PM7/3/16
to
employer *most* health coverage doesn't extend beyond the age of 18
unless the child is a full-time student.
Jill
Brooklyn1
Jul 3, 2016, 8:44:52 PM7/3/16
to
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>On 7/3/2016 4:45 PM, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>>> That is not the end of his legal trouble. I heard from a friend of the
>>> family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
>>> the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
>>> were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
>>> I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
>>> for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
>>> drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
>>
>>> family that there have been suits launched against the driver, against
>>> the bar where he had been drinking, and against the owners of the house
>>> were the party was held and the teens were drinking under age. However,
>>> I have to wonder how much liability the parents are willing to assume
>>> for allowing their kids to stay out that late, for raising kids who
>>> drink under age and who abuse alcohol.
>>
>> Does that mean that if the kids were drinking and on foot going home
>> (not driving) you now feel it is their fault ? Rather like it's a
>> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>>
>
>I don't think it is the same.
>
>There is more to the story though, once you dig into it. There are many
>ways the accident could have been avoided. Forget legalities for a
>second and just look at the morality. If you allowed the teens to drink
>at your house would you feel guilty afterwards? You had the opportunity
>to prevent it and yet you did not.
>
>> woman's fault when she is raped ?
>>
>
>I don't think it is the same.
>
>There is more to the story though, once you dig into it. There are many
>ways the accident could have been avoided. Forget legalities for a
>second and just look at the morality. If you allowed the teens to drink
>at your house would you feel guilty afterwards? You had the opportunity
>to prevent it and yet you did not.
>
>Bartender? Yes, some blame there if he was serving a person impaired
>already.
>
>already.
>
>Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess.
Parents are guilty if they condoned their teens drinking at all.
Years ago I volunteered with a big brother program at the local school
district. For several weeks I would take an eight year old boy on
outings; movies, to parks, feeding ducks, helping him plant tomatoes
in his yard. He had a 16 year old sister that was built like the
proverbial BSH. The mom had no problem providing her daughter with
hard liquor while her daughter was entertaining 18 year old boys in
their vans parked in their driveway. Once I saw what was happening I
reported it to the school admin and I quit that program. It was a bad
scene and the mom didn't care, she told me to lighten up, it was
normal growing up. She knew her 16 year old daughter was providing
sex to every boy at her school and acted like she should get an award.
I learned that those big brother programs are a crock of poo. Helped
set the stage for me not believing in any charitible organizations...
my only charitible donation is directly feeding critters... no
pockets, no stealing. Big Brother program admins like ALL charities
skim grubermint funding, which means tax payers get ripped. When I
feed critters I can watch them eating, they're all grateful, there's
no skimming by fat cat admins. When I see a wild critter hurt/ssick I
trap them if I can and sbring them to a Vet that charges little or
nothing to help wild critters, They know I care for critters so they
don't bill me but still I bring cases of food for the guys waiting to
be adopted... strays only need a good loving home and they give back
ten times over. Animal Kind is an extrordinarilly valuable
organization in my community.
http://www.animalkindny.com/misson
Give them a forever home:
http://www.animalkindny.com/animals/
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 3, 2016, 9:11:14 PM7/3/16
to
money, you are liable and we have the lawyers to go after it.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 9:19:02 PM7/3/16
to
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1qaez.1939$Kk2....@fx10.iad...
> On 2016-07-03 10:40 AM, Gary wrote:
>> lucreti...@fl.it wrote:
>
>> And I agree with you too. Assuming he survives the year, he'll be out
>> and all happy again. Meanwhile that girl is messed up for life. He
>> should pay them forever for that.
>
> It is a year in jail, not prison. It won't even be a year. It will be
> more like 6 months.
>
>> I'll bet Ed wouldn't go to that restaurant if it had been *HIS* teenage
>> daughter that got her life ruined.
>
> The victim is a member of our community and it is a small town. The family
> are friends of friends. I wonder how some people would feel if the guy
> had been convicted of a violent, racially motivated crime, or a sexual
> assault on a child. I would not hire someone to work in my house if the
> had criminal records for theft or violence. The courts are removed from
> the situation but people in the community have to deal with their
> attitudes.
Apples and oranges.
Dave Smith
Jul 3, 2016, 9:21:16 PM7/3/16
to
On 2016-07-03 7:33 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 7/2/2016 11:02 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>>
>> He also went to jail and served his time.
>>
> Dave said he was just sentenced, which means he hasn't served the year
> yet. However there's no real documentation to go with his post and much
> of what he wrote "from reliable sources" sounds like speculation and
> gossip.
http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2016/06/29/driver-gets-year-in-jail-for-hit-and-run
> On 7/2/2016 11:02 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 18:57:08 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is made when your chequebook doesn't balance or when you put
>>> on a sock inside out!! He damn well knew what he was doing when he drove
>>> drunk and ran from the scene!
>>
>> He also went to jail and served his time.
>>
> Dave said he was just sentenced, which means he hasn't served the year
> yet. However there's no real documentation to go with his post and much
> of what he wrote "from reliable sources" sounds like speculation and
> gossip.
http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/2016/05/09/hit-and-run-driver-to-be-sentenced
http://www.bulletnewsniagara.ca/index.php?p=Sections&id=4146
The reliable source is a friend of my son who was at the bar where the
couple were drinking.
> I do agree drinking is no excuse. Years ago my nephew was hit by an
> unlicensed drunk driver (a repeat offender). He was driving his
> sister's (uninsured) pickup truck. The guy's sister knew he wasn't
> supposed to be driving; apparently she didn't care.
>
her liable. At least, that is the way it works here.
> My nephew was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk in the suburb where he
> lived. It appears the driver passed out, jumped the curb, hit my nephew
> (who was seriously injured) then plowed into the front of a house. The
> truck was littered with empties. I don't really know what the
> disposition of the case turned out to be. I do know there was no auto
> insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
drive without a license or while under suspension. I caught lots of
people driving under suspension and lots of them who had been been
convicted many times previously. The worst was the guy with 24 previous
convictions.
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 9:32:26 PM7/3/16
to
Julie Bove
Jul 3, 2016, 9:36:32 PM7/3/16
to
news:bfcb1dad-efcd-4f62...@googlegroups.com...
OMG. I shop in Lynnwood all the time. I have to look this up! And I found
nothing. Do you remember what kind of store it was?
nothing. Do you remember what kind of store it was?
jmcquown
Jul 3, 2016, 9:45:59 PM7/3/16
to
On 7/3/2016 8:44 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess.
>
> Parents are guilty if they condoned their teens drinking at all.
I agree with that. I went to high school in the 70's with a boy whose
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:01:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Parents? Only if they condoned the teens drinking to excess.
>
> Parents are guilty if they condoned their teens drinking at all.
mom was the "cool" mom. She truly felt she was providing a safe-haven
for her son's friends to drink. It sounded cool as hell at the time but
it really wasn't.
Jill
Ophelia
Jul 4, 2016, 11:15:16 AM7/4/16
to
news:bfcb1dad-efcd-4f62...@googlegroups.com...
MrD behave yourself!
;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Ophelia
Jul 4, 2016, 11:24:33 AM7/4/16
to
"Brooklyn1" <grave...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bv0jnbh2uq7m75ktr...@4ax.com...
I only take rescues.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
graham
Jul 4, 2016, 12:43:40 PM7/4/16
to
where they had been on a list for euthanising.
Graham
Dave Smith
Jul 4, 2016, 1:59:15 PM7/4/16
to
On 2016-07-04 12:43 PM, graham wrote:
>>
> We have idiots here who are importing pitbulls rescued from US shelters
> where they had been on a list for euthanising.
He have them here too.... the local Humane Society. It is illegal to
>>
> We have idiots here who are importing pitbulls rescued from US shelters
> where they had been on a list for euthanising.
breed or import pit bulls here, but I know someone who "rescued" one
from the pound, and it was an American dog that was "rescued" from
somewhere in the US. It is strange that the organization that enforces
the animal bylaws and provincial animal protections laws is violating
those same laws.
Roy
Jul 4, 2016, 2:22:58 PM7/4/16
to
====
Cheryl
Jul 4, 2016, 2:45:39 PM7/4/16
to
On 7/3/2016 7:33 PM, jmcquown wrote:
>
> I do agree drinking is no excuse. Years ago my nephew was hit by an
> unlicensed drunk driver (a repeat offender). He was driving his
> sister's (uninsured) pickup truck. The guy's sister knew he wasn't
> supposed to be driving; apparently she didn't care.
>
>
> I do agree drinking is no excuse. Years ago my nephew was hit by an
> unlicensed drunk driver (a repeat offender). He was driving his
> sister's (uninsured) pickup truck. The guy's sister knew he wasn't
> supposed to be driving; apparently she didn't care.
>
> My nephew was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk in the suburb where he
> lived. It appears the driver passed out, jumped the curb, hit my nephew
> (who was seriously injured) then plowed into the front of a house. The
> truck was littered with empties. I don't really know what the
> disposition of the case turned out to be. I do know there was no auto
> insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
That's horrible Jill. It would have been nice to know the outcome,
> lived. It appears the driver passed out, jumped the curb, hit my nephew
> (who was seriously injured) then plowed into the front of a house. The
> truck was littered with empties. I don't really know what the
> disposition of the case turned out to be. I do know there was no auto
> insurance to pay even a part of my nephew's medical bills.
especially if the driver is still in jail. I hope the fact that he was a
repeat offender means he was prosecuted fully.
--
ღ.¸¸.✫*¨`*✶
Cheryl
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 4, 2016, 2:48:14 PM7/4/16
to
On 7/4/2016 2:22 PM, Roy wrote:
>
> Hard to believe that people can be so goddamned stupid when it comes to pitbulls. Pitbulls were bred to KILL, that is their specialty. They should be purged from this earth.
> ====
>
They can, if properly bred and raised, be quite friendly and playful. A
>
> Hard to believe that people can be so goddamned stupid when it comes to pitbulls. Pitbulls were bred to KILL, that is their specialty. They should be purged from this earth.
> ====
>
handful of people use them as status symbols in the gangs and train them
to be nasty.
We had one living with us for about a year. Great dog, we miss her.
Original owner trained her properly and she has a sweet disposition.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 4, 2016, 3:12:46 PM7/4/16
to
friends Staffordshire Bull Terrier had always been reliable but he
suddenly rushed me when he came into the room and saw the baby sitting
on my lap. Thankfully I was in a swivel chair and managed to deflect
while the owner grabbed him, it was a nasty feeling.
Dave Smith
Jul 4, 2016, 4:10:32 PM7/4/16
to
the time. They were never a problem for me. The younger one used to come
over and visit when I was at the patio table or working in the yard.
They and their German Shepherd used to tag along with my wife on her
morning walk in the woods with our two dogs..... five male dogs. There
were never any problems. I can tell you that my wife sure felt safe.
Jeßus
Jul 4, 2016, 6:56:33 PM7/4/16
to
On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 14:48:10 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>On 7/4/2016 2:22 PM, Roy wrote:
>>
>> Hard to believe that people can be so goddamned stupid when it comes to pitbulls. Pitbulls were bred to KILL, that is their specialty. They should be purged from this earth.
>
>On 7/4/2016 2:22 PM, Roy wrote:
>>
>> Hard to believe that people can be so goddamned stupid when it comes to pitbulls. Pitbulls were bred to KILL, that is their specialty. They should be purged from this earth.
>
>They can, if properly bred and raised, be quite friendly and playful. A
>handful of people use them as status symbols in the gangs and train them
>to be nasty.
That's right. I've been around those breeds most of my life and the
>handful of people use them as status symbols in the gangs and train them
>to be nasty.
only nasty ones I ever came across were made that way. No better or
worse than any other breed when it comes to temperament.
>We had one living with us for about a year. Great dog, we miss her.
>Original owner trained her properly and she has a sweet disposition.
Staffordshire/Pit Bull cross, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier
and more pleasant dog. Everyone absolutely loved her.
Goodbye Winnie, I'll never forget you :(
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 4, 2016, 7:10:10 PM7/4/16
to
>
>
>That's right. I've been around those breeds most of my life and the
>only nasty ones I ever came across were made that way. No better or
>worse than any other breed when it comes to temperament.
>
>>We had one living with us for about a year. Great dog, we miss her.
>>Original owner trained her properly and she has a sweet disposition.
>
>I lost Winnie, my dog, in the bush 6 days ago. She was a
>Staffordshire/Pit Bull cross, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier
>and more pleasant dog. Everyone absolutely loved her.
>
>Goodbye Winnie, I'll never forget you :(
Do you mean she strayed away from you, or what? My cat is Winnie,
>
>That's right. I've been around those breeds most of my life and the
>only nasty ones I ever came across were made that way. No better or
>worse than any other breed when it comes to temperament.
>
>>We had one living with us for about a year. Great dog, we miss her.
>>Original owner trained her properly and she has a sweet disposition.
>
>I lost Winnie, my dog, in the bush 6 days ago. She was a
>Staffordshire/Pit Bull cross, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier
>and more pleasant dog. Everyone absolutely loved her.
>
>Goodbye Winnie, I'll never forget you :(
she was already called that.
col...@gmail.com
Jul 4, 2016, 7:20:42 PM7/4/16
to
I had a boxer with uncropped ears that looked a little like a pit bull.
Jeßus
Jul 4, 2016, 7:46:45 PM7/4/16
to
ever since my friend lost his other dog - it seems Winnie replaced him
as far as that goes. I had Winnie with me inside my friend's house,
then SOMEBODY left the door open (knowing it was meant to be kept
closed), and off they went. It was only a matter of a minute or so
before I realised the door was open but it was too late.
>My cat is Winnie,
>she was already called that.
lucreti...@fl.it
Jul 4, 2016, 7:56:58 PM7/4/16
to
>
>Ingredients
cat back, they were in the garden and she was terrified when a car
backfired out on the road, and she ran. This evening, two days later,
after all the searching a friend brought her home. He recognised her,
she was cowering by a house, he called her and she practically ran up
him! So sometimes things work out, and dogs are good at returning.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Winnie.
>Ingredients
>
>>>
>>>I lost Winnie, my dog, in the bush 6 days ago. She was a
>>>Staffordshire/Pit Bull cross, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier
>>>and more pleasant dog. Everyone absolutely loved her.
>>>
>>>Goodbye Winnie, I'll never forget you :(
>>
>>Do you mean she strayed away from you, or what?
>
>Led away by another dog... the pair of them had a habit of going bush
>ever since my friend lost his other dog - it seems Winnie replaced him
>as far as that goes. I had Winnie with me inside my friend's house,
>then SOMEBODY left the door open (knowing it was meant to be kept
>closed), and off they went. It was only a matter of a minute or so
>before I realised the door was open but it was too late.
>
>>My cat is Winnie,
>>she was already called that.
>
>Yes, I remember.
I'm so sorry, but don't give up yet! My granddaughter just got her
>>>
>>>I lost Winnie, my dog, in the bush 6 days ago. She was a
>>>Staffordshire/Pit Bull cross, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier
>>>and more pleasant dog. Everyone absolutely loved her.
>>>
>>>Goodbye Winnie, I'll never forget you :(
>>
>>Do you mean she strayed away from you, or what?
>
>Led away by another dog... the pair of them had a habit of going bush
>ever since my friend lost his other dog - it seems Winnie replaced him
>as far as that goes. I had Winnie with me inside my friend's house,
>then SOMEBODY left the door open (knowing it was meant to be kept
>closed), and off they went. It was only a matter of a minute or so
>before I realised the door was open but it was too late.
>
>>My cat is Winnie,
>>she was already called that.
>
>Yes, I remember.
cat back, they were in the garden and she was terrified when a car
backfired out on the road, and she ran. This evening, two days later,
after all the searching a friend brought her home. He recognised her,
she was cowering by a house, he called her and she practically ran up
him! So sometimes things work out, and dogs are good at returning.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Winnie.
Jeßus
Jul 4, 2016, 9:38:35 PM7/4/16
to
>So sometimes things work out, and dogs are good at returning.
times, theyre usually back in the evening (by which time I've usually
gone home). his last time, my friend's dog, Zed, came back with a
broken canine after about 30 hours and needed treatment. But this time
there was no Winnie with him. At least the weather has been mild this
past week and not below freezing.
Here's an old pic of Winnie... plus Annie and Lucy...
http://www.hostpic.org/images/1603281958590106.jpg
>I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Winnie.
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages