Generator update

[Ed Pawlowski]

We had a little discussion about generators a few days back.

I ended up ordering one from Amazon
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VNCWGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seemed reasonably priced for insurance. This area has not had an
extended power outage so I hope that continues. This is enough to keep
the fridge going and a room AC if needed. I'll just run cords rather
than transfer switches.

Home Depot price $629
Amazon price $499
Saved $130
FL tax exempt $ 30 hurricane supplies exemption this week
Amazon Prime CC $ 25 rebate of 5% with an Amazon Prime card

So looking around at competitive prices and good timing, I saved $180
over just going to the big box store.

[Bruce]

Bloody electricity company keeps turning off our electricity for a day
so they can play with power poles. That means I can't work for a day,
deadline or not.

10.75 hours at 25% load doesn't sound like a lot, though. Although
it's easy enough to keep more than 1.2 gallons of fuel at hand, I
guess.

[Hank Rogers]

Is it certified Popeye approved?

[Ed Pawlowski]

With load it may be 7 to 8 hours. Normally I won't be keeping more than
a gallon on hand but if a storm is coming I'll add a couple of cans.
Based on past history, this has been a good area. There is a station not
far away that has ethanol free gas too.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Real houses with basements don't need generators.

[Bruce]

Sheldon just hooks up his mower to the house and starts revving.

[Dave Smith]

Mine does. I have a wet basement in the spring when the water table is
high and my sump pump runs frequently. If the power is out for very
long it will flood.

[Bruce]

:)

[Christ...@deathtochristianity.pl]

Yeah for sure use ethanol free

--

____/~~~sine qua non~~~\____

[Hank Rogers]

Yes, exactly! Sorry. Since yoose live in a goat barn, I reckon any
old generator is good enough.

P.S. I bought and lived in a goat barn on a slab for quite a few
years, but I never sailed the seven seas, screwed 10000000 wimens,
nor married an old mexican woman.

We both missed out on the best parts of nautical/navy life.

[Hank Rogers]

Yoose should get Popeye to come up there and access yoose situation.
He will help yoose figure out what is wrong. Just don't let him see
the big niece, or she will rape Popeye on the spot.

[Sqwertz]

> On 6/2/2019 3:28 PM, Bruce wrote:

>> Bloody electricity company keeps turning off our electricity for a day
>> so they can play with power poles. That means I can't work for a day,
>> deadline or not.
>>
>> 10.75 hours at 25% load doesn't sound like a lot, though. Although
>> it's easy enough to keep more than 1.2 gallons of fuel at hand, I
>> guess.

Trolls have deadlines?

Maybe if you have a legitimate deadlines (I REALLY doubt it, you're
a habitual liar and idiot) then you should spend less time trolling
rather than blaming your inefficiency on the power company.

-sw

[jay]

You should advise the power company on how they should operate like you
do here on every subject. To start with you don't have a job unless it
is pay for clicks for trolling social media disparaging the USA about
things and folks you have no real knowledge about... and then there is
your blow up wife. No real woman or man for that matter would stay with
such an obnoxious know it all ass hole of a looser. If you really had a
relationship that included a wife, you would be it, Bruth.

lol

[Bruce]

Well, I'm glad you got that off your chest. You must be feeling a lot
better, "jay".

[tert in seattle]

over the past few years I've seen lots of reports of Amazon workers being
mistreated - underpaid, injured on the job, in fact I think nine people
have died working for Amazon since 2013

haven't heard any similar reports about the big box stores

[Bruce]

Not too critical, please. This is RFC.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You should read more
https://homedepotaccidents.com/my-story
https://www.rosenfeldinjurylawyers.com/home-depot-workers.html
https://www.lubbockonline.com/article/20160221/NEWS/302219942
https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region5/08262013
https://www.burwellnebout.com/blog/2014/08/home-depots-record-of-serious-safety-violations-continues-into-2014.shtml
between 1999 - 2002, nine workers died at Home Depot stores

Sad that people die on the job but don't knock one place when others are
as bad. I'm still dollars ahead though.

[dsi1]

9 people dead in 6 years doesn't seem to be that many. My guess is that working for Amazon is a pretty safe gig. OTOH, working in any warehouse or being in the business of moving a shitload of product probably has it's hazards. Look on the bright side - soon, most of the warehouse workers will be replaced by machines. That's a win-win situation, ain't it?

https://www.workingmother.com/amazon-is-looking-for-5000-work-from-home-employees

[Bruce]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 11:58:14 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
wrote:

Yes, because soon everybody will be vegetarian and they'll need time
to grow their own vegetables.

[dsi1]

In the future, people will neither grow their own food nor cook - except for a few bohemian types. Mostly, the people shall consume product produced in the most efficient and cost-effective way and people shall no longer suffer from hunger. It's going to be, as they say, "all good."

[Bruce]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:14:38 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>

If you look that far ahead, humanity will have moved to another
planet, having made this one uninhabitable.

[Cindy Hamilton]

They've been predicting that for decades. Yet there always
seems to be something standing in the way of people having
enough to eat. Typically, it's other people. With guns.

Cindy Hamilton

[graham]

There is only ONE prediction that has always proven to be true: The rich
will get richer and the poor are always with us.

[penm...@aol.com]

On 3 Jun 2019 tert in seattle <tert wrote:
>
>over the past few years I've seen lots of reports of Amazon workers being
>mistreated - underpaid, injured on the job, in fact I think nine people
>have died working for Amazon since 2013

That's damn good considering Amazon hires seniors by tens of thousands

>haven't heard any similar reports about the big box stores

Amazon IS b a big box store, the biggest on the planet. It's
primarily seniors who take those warehouse jobs and it's mostly
seniors who are hired because they are a lot more responsible and
harder working than todays young people.

[dsi1]

Plans to colonize Mars seems to be premature. That would be like moving out of a crappy neighborhood to one devoid of life. All we have to do is stay and live on this planet until it gets as bad as Mars then we'll be ready to move into the hills of Mars. It'll be one smooth transition.

https://www.mars-one.com/

[dsi1]

In the future, man will lay down his arms and the world will live as one.

[dsi1]

That might be true. You could add that America's great middle class is getting poorer and we'll soon become second rate.

[dsi1]

My guess is that in less than 5 years, Alibaba is going to be the biggest e-commerce entity on the planet. There's going to be a rumble for sure.

https://www.alibaba.com

[penm...@aol.com]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 16:41:51 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
wrote:

One of the worst web sites I've seen

[dsi1]

It might be. That hardly matters.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 7:31:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:

> In the future, man will lay down his arms and the world will live as one.

About a minute before the species becomes extinct. The last guy, having
shot the second-last guy, will lay down his arms.

Violence is part of our DNA. Even two-year-olds know how to get what they
want from another child.

Cindy Hamilton

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <qd3j76$ram$2...@ftupet.ftupet.com>, tert in seattle

<te...@ftupet.com> wrote:

> over the past few years I've seen lots of reports of Amazon workers being
> mistreated - underpaid, injured on the job, in fact I think nine people
> have died working for Amazon since 2013

My parents beat into my head that if I didn't like the job I had and
aspired to better, go get another job. That philosophy is too logical
to be understood nowadays.

[ObFood] Spaghetti and meatballs. Laugh it up! We haven't had spaghetti
and meatballs in several years. Other than the spaghetti itself, I made
it all by myself! Real browned meatballs that I made and none of that
jarred stuff as a sauce.
I'm going to neglect to post the recipe, but here are the ingredients:
hamburger, diced canned tomatoes, finely chopped trinity, bread crumbs,
oregano, basil, sliced olives, mushrooms, garlic, salt, sugar,
spaghetti noodles and...um, love. What a pain in the ass!
I think of this dish and tuna casserole as "belly filler". I had bought
a pound of hamburger and was uninspired to make cheeseburgers.
Now, I'm inspired again!

leo

[Bruce]

But only in the US do disgruntled retards walk around with a gun. To
each their own, of course. Enjoy.

[Ophelia]

"Leonard Blaisdell" wrote in message
news:040620190258293816%leobla...@sbcglobal.net...

==

Great:)) Well done! You are inspiring me to make it too, and yes, I
cook, like you, from scratch:))

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <f3hcfethbivbdn2r6...@4ax.com>, Bruce

In the Middle East and Africa, folks drive around in trucks with
automatic weapons and kill infidels. That's not too far from you, is
it?
Stay safe! I'm always looking out for you ;)

leo

[Bruce]

Compared to those countries, the US is a safe haven of common sense
and civilisation.

>Stay safe! I'm always looking out for you ;)

Thank you. I'll warn you if there's a rabid armed Muslim walking
through your neighbourhood.

[Leonard Blaisdell]

In article <faicfet26stms59hj...@4ax.com>, Bruce

Ditto.

leo

[Gary]

Bruce wrote:

>
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> >dsi1 wrote:
> >> In the future, man will lay down his arms and the world will live as one.

> >About a minute before the species becomes extinct. The last guy, having
> >shot the second-last guy, will lay down his arms.
> >Violence is part of our DNA. Even two-year-olds know how to get what they
> >want from another child.
>
> But only in the US do disgruntled retards walk around with a gun. To
> each their own, of course. Enjoy.

"God bless the United States! (except California)" LOL

[Dave Smith]

Just like the good old days in the US when they guys dressed up in white
robes and drove around in trucks with guns and lynched people or burned
crosses on their lawns.

[Gary]

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>
> [ObFood] Spaghetti and meatballs. Laugh it up! We haven't had spaghetti
> and meatballs in several years. Other than the spaghetti itself, I made
> it all by myself! Real browned meatballs that I made and none of that
> jarred stuff as a sauce.
> I'm going to neglect to post the recipe, but here are the ingredients:
> hamburger, diced canned tomatoes, finely chopped trinity, bread crumbs,
> oregano, basil, sliced olives, mushrooms, garlic, salt, sugar,
> spaghetti noodles and...um, love. What a pain in the ass!
> I think of this dish and tuna casserole as "belly filler".

That sounds good PLUS I've had in mind to make a tuna casserole
the last week or two. I always liked them well enough as long as
it's not too often. It has been maybe 10 years now (just guessing
but probably longer than that).

A good homemade tuna casserole is nothing for anyone to turn
their nose up about.

[Cindy Hamilton]

May the California Air Resources Board be damned to Hell for
eternity.

Cindy Hamilton

[Gary]

I heard my quote above by Tim Allen on "Last Man Standing" just a
few days ago. It made me laugh. I never watch that show. Just
watched for a few minutes and he told two funny things. Maybe I
should start watching it more often for some good sitcom humor.

[Gary]

heyjoe wrote:
>
> Gary wrote :
>
> >good homemade tuna casserole
>
> That's right up there with "flood control", "good grief" and "ill
> health". An oxymoron of the highest degree.

Ok, you convinced me. I'll make one tomorrow. :)

[S Viemeister]

In the US, they use their automatic (and semi-automatic) guns on school
children.

[tert in seattle]

e...@snet.xxx writes:

>On 6/3/2019 12:51 PM, tert in seattle wrote:
>> e...@snet.xxx writes:
>>> We had a little discussion about generators a few days back.
>>>
>>> I ended up ordering one from Amazon
>>>
>https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VNCWGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>>
>>> Seemed reasonably priced for insurance. This area has not had an
>>> extended power outage so I hope that continues. This is enough to keep
>>> the fridge going and a room AC if needed. I'll just run cords rather
>>> than transfer switches.
>>>
>>> Home Depot price $629
>>> Amazon price $499
>>> Saved $130
>>> FL tax exempt $ 30 hurricane supplies exemption this week
>>> Amazon Prime CC $ 25 rebate of 5% with an Amazon Prime card
>>>
>>> So looking around at competitive prices and good timing, I saved $180
>>> over just going to the big box store.
>>

>> over the past few years I've seen lots of reports of Amazon workers being
>> mistreated - underpaid, injured on the job, in fact I think nine people
>> have died working for Amazon since 2013
>>

>> haven't heard any similar reports about the big box stores
>>
>>
>

>You should read more
>https://homedepotaccidents.com/my-story
>https://www.rosenfeldinjurylawyers.com/home-depot-workers.html
>https://www.lubbockonline.com/article/20160221/NEWS/302219942
>https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region5/08262013
>https://www.burwellnebout.com/blog/2014/08/home-depots-record-of-serious-safety-violations-continues-into-2014.shtml
>between 1999 - 2002, nine workers died at Home Depot stores
>
>Sad that people die on the job but don't knock one place when others are
>as bad. I'm still dollars ahead though.

I looked at the two verifiable sources you cited - OSHA and the news site.
Pretty weak, comparing one failed safety inspection and one death to what
apparently is a pattern of poor labor practices at Amazon, not just related
to injuries and deaths. Admittedly the death rate is not high but the
Amazon thing has even been reported on by Fox news. I don't think it's a
conspiracy against Amazon.

[tert in seattle]

leobla...@sbcglobal.net writes:
>In article <qd3j76$ram$2...@ftupet.ftupet.com>, tert in seattle
><te...@ftupet.com> wrote:
>
>> over the past few years I've seen lots of reports of Amazon workers being
>> mistreated - underpaid, injured on the job, in fact I think nine people
>> have died working for Amazon since 2013
>
>My parents beat into my head that if I didn't like the job I had and
>aspired to better, go get another job. That philosophy is too logical
>to be understood nowadays.

thanks to you and Sheldon for maintaining the old white guy philosophy -
not sure how the world would get along without it

Grog Marrow must be too hung over to login quite this early

[Janet]

In article <qcuJE.24959$k34....@fx25.iad>, adavid...@sympatico.ca
says...

>
> On 2019-06-04 6:32 a.m., Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> > In article <f3hcfethbivbdn2r6...@4ax.com>, Bruce
> > <br...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 02:57:48 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> >> <angelica...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> Violence is part of our DNA. Even two-year-olds know how to get what they
> >>> want from another child.
> >>
> >> But only in the US do disgruntled retards walk around with a gun. To
> >> each their own, of course. Enjoy.
> >
> > In the Middle East and Africa, folks drive around in trucks with
> > automatic weapons and kill infidels. That's not too far from you, is
> > it?

Nowhere near Australia.

Janet UK

[Ed Pawlowski]

Fact is, many businesses have deaths and the reporting is not always
linear. Amazon makes the news easier than many other places, just as
some politicians and celebrities make the news more often.

It is silly to think I'm going to spend an extra $180 because some
people, according to the news, don't like their working conditions.
Those complaints come from a lot of places but don't make the news.
Don't like the working conditions? Go someplace else. Many have.

Next time you buy vegetables think about the working conditions of the
people that harvested your strawberries or lettuce. You'd starve if you
boycotted them.

[jmcquown]

In article <qcuJE.24959$k34....@fx25.iad>, adavid...@sympatico.ca
says...

> Just like the good old days in the US when they guys dressed up in

> robes and drove around in trucks with guns and lynched people or burned
> crosses on their lawns.
>

https://tinyurl.com/4p6ul

Jill

[dsi1]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 12:15:38 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> But only in the US do disgruntled retards walk around with a gun. To
> each their own, of course. Enjoy.

My wife's great-grandfather did walk/ride around with a gun. It's how the freakin' West was won! :)

https://yesteryearsnews.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/flopping-bill-cleans-the-ranges-of-desperados/

[tert in seattle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Ophelia]

"Gary" wrote in message news:5CF675DC...@att.net...

==

Who knows? I've never had one:))

[Ophelia]

"heyjoe" wrote in message news:qd6053$po9$1...@dont-email.me...

On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 09:45:00 -0400
in Message-ID: <news:5CF675DC...@att.net>
Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote :

>good homemade tuna casserole

That's right up there with "flood control", "good grief" and "ill
health". An oxymoron of the highest degree.

=====

Are you saying it is not something I ought to try??

[Ophelia]

"heyjoe" wrote in message news:qd68ug$g37$1...@dont-email.me...

On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:55:18 -0400
in Message-ID: <news:5CF68656...@att.net>
Gary <g.ma...@att.net> wrote :

What tuna do you buy? Canned or pouch?

Just curious, as my biggest problem with tuna is the smell, overly
fishy, IMO. But am willing to learn about a better product, as I like
fish, in general.

=====

Oh dear, you have put me right off. :(

[Ophelia]

"dsi1" wrote in message
news:a5fbdab5-9314-445f...@googlegroups.com...

===

:))))

[GM]

SORRY there TERTBEL...I was "indisposed", as "my shoes were in a swamp in Sweden..."

Just so ya know, I don't believe in the "minimum wage", either...and Leo's comment to which you replied is *spot on* correct...

--
Best
Greg

[GM]

S-o-o-o-o-o tert...are you calling Ed a "communist"...or even an Ethel Rosenberg - type "fellow traveler"...???

--
Best
Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

Call it what you want. Your comment was dumb to start with. I look
after myself first. Only then can I help others. I have a couple of
other items to order from Amazon soon.

[Bruce]

Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral!

[Hank Rogers]

Is that French? Damned if it makes any sense to me.

[Bruce]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 19:39:53 -0500, Hank Rogers <nos...@invalid.org>
wrote:

German. "First comes the chow, then come the morals." Is the best I
can come up with.

[dsi1]

Minimum wage is pretty meaningless if it won't allow a couple to pay for their housing, food, medical, and education. You know, like we were able to when we were young.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Ja

[Cindy Hamilton]

Minimum wage never allowed that. I made slightly more than minimum wage
at my first job and had to have a roommate to help with the bills.

Cindy Hamlton

[dsi1]

I never said that minimum wage allowed anything. Minimum wage is pretty much a scam that doesn't mean much.

[Bruce]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 04:11:38 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
wrote:

Isn't it better than nothing?

[John Kuthe]

Infinitely better than nothing! Summer of 1979 after I had been fired from my job at Venture's bakery I was receiving $72/week unemployment checks and that's how I lived Summer of 1979!! Outside in a suburban ballfield most of the time, I kid you NOT!

John Kuthe...

[Ed Pawlowski]

Sure, but the marketplace can set a better wage. Where I worked some
years ago we had a union contract that spelled out the wage we had to
pay and it was more than minimum. To get people to work for us, we had
to pay higher than the place next door. That was even higher than the
contract. Simple supply and demand at work.

[Cindy Hamilton]

You're right. It means that employers can't pay their employees
$1 an hour or wherever the race to the bottom would end up.

In practice, though, even McDonald's has to pay more than minimum
wage, or people won't work there. That's why they're exploring
all the automation they can.

Cindy Hamilton

[GM]

Yup, here ya go (this is from November 2016):

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/mcdonalds-counters-fight-for-15-with-automation/

"Calls for a minimum-wage hike nationwide and in Illinois are increasingly met with businesses’ use of technology to cut costs.

As the Fight for $15 campaign, led by the Service Employees International Union, or SEIU, protested for higher wages again Nov. 29, McDonald’s continued to unveil self-service kiosks throughout the country to counteract costly wage mandates.

McDonald’s announced Nov. 17 it was expanding its digital self-serve ordering stations to all of its 14,000 restaurants nationwide. This new automation is something a McDonald’s location in Chicago’s Loop has been testing for months.

Chicago was one of hundreds of cities worldwide where the Fight for $15 campaign held strikes and protests Nov. 29, as well as April 14. If protestors stopped by the McDonald’s at Adams and Wells in Chicago, though, they would have met their replacement – an automated McCafé kiosk.

That store, which is anticipating Chicago’s minimum-wage increase to $13 an hour by 2019, has been testing out coffee kiosks in the restaurant instead of having employees serve it. The kiosk features a touch-pad for ordering and paying. The screen also prompts customers to answer questions about their kiosk experience, giving the impression this is something that could be adopted as an alternative to hiring – and something McDonald’s is now taking seriously with the nationwide rollout of them. This kind of automation, which replaces a human employee with technology, is one of the unintended consequences of Chicago’s minimum-wage increase – which the Cook County Board recently extended to suburban neighborhoods, too.

It may not just be a coffee machine either. Cary, Ill. features the nation’s first drive-thru-only Burger King, which saves on labor costs. Other McDonald’s locations have used self-service kiosks with touch-screens for paying. And while self-serve kiosks don’t seem too unusual, San Francisco-based Momentum Machines has created a robotic hamburger-making machine the company claims can produce 400 high-quality burgers in an hour with minimal human supervision.

A robot making a hamburger sounds a bit absurd, but the desire to circumvent artificially set wages certainly isn’t.

California and New York are the next two states that could see a loss in low-wage jobs, with both states recently passing statewide minimum-wage laws. California’s minimum wage will increase to $15 over the next six years, while New York’s will increase to $15 by 2018. While this will mean that some workers will see an increase in their wages, many will lose their jobs altogether. California Gov. Jerry Brown, who signed his state’s minimum-wage hike into law April 4, admitted, “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense.” Yet Brown still caved to those pushing a policy that will cut young and inexperienced workers from his state’s workforce.

Illinois may face the same fate, after the Illinois General Assembly approved a minimum wage hike May 30. The legislation increases the minimum wage to $15 per hour over five years.

Young, inexperienced workers who rely on finding minimum-wage jobs are already having a hard time. In Chicago, approximately 1 in 10 black teenagers ages 16 to 19 are employed, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in new research from the University of Illinois at Chicago’s Great Cities Institute. And the employment rate for Chicago Latinos ages 16 to 19 has plummeted by 42 percent since 2005 – with only 15 percent employed in 2014.

The trend carries over nationwide. In 2015, 16.9 percent of those ages 16 to 19 nationally were unemployed, compared with just 5.3 percent of all ages. This particularly hurts minority communities, with 28.4 percent of blacks ages 16 to 19 unemployed, versus 9.6 percent of black workers overall. And those numbers would get worse with a national increase in the minimum wage. A 2014 report from the Congressional Budget Office estimated that, if implemented then, between 500,000 and 1,000,000 workers would lose their jobs by 2016 as a direct result of a federal minimum-wage increase to $10.10.

Fast-food workers who have protested in Chicago and elsewhere for a higher wage might have justified frustrations about lackluster wage growth, but an increased state-mandated wage would only increase unemployment. It would also further harm low-income and minority communities that have already been disproportionately hurt by Chicago’s and Illinois’ decades of bad economic policies.

A $15-per-hour wage won’t seem like much if there aren’t many jobs left – and technology is enabling more businesses to take that route..."

[Gary]

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>
> dsi1 wrote:
> > Minimum wage is pretty meaningless if it won't allow a couple to pay for their housing, food, medical, and education. You know, like we were able to when we were young.
>
> Minimum wage never allowed that. I made slightly more than minimum wage
> at my first job and had to have a roommate to help with the bills.

My first pay job (other than paperboy for years), was when I was
15-16, around 1969. It was $1.60 per hour then and stayed that
for a few years. Luckily, I lived at home so it was all spendable
money for anything, not bills. It was never intended to provide a
living for adults. It was intended for teens still at home
wanting to make extra money for themselves.

Now people expect it to cover all costs of living. Good one.
Guess again people.

[Ophelia]

"Hank Rogers" wrote in message news:qd730j$smc$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

==

German:))

[tert in seattle]

he's a double agent

[Dave Smith]

On 2019-06-05 10:52 a.m., Gary wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>> Minimum wage is pretty meaningless if it won't allow a couple to pay for their housing, food, medical, and education. You know, like we were able to when we were young.

>> Minimum wage never allowed that. I made slightly more than minimum wage
>> at my first job and had to have a roommate to help with the bills.
>
> My first pay job (other than paperboy for years), was when I was
> 15-16, around 1969. It was $1.60 per hour then and stayed that
> for a few years. Luckily, I lived at home so it was all spendable
> money for anything, not bills. It was never intended to provide a
> living for adults. It was intended for teens still at home
> wanting to make extra money for themselves.

Welcome to the 21st century where minimum wage is the best that many
people can hope for. There used to be high paying jobs in manufacturing,
but our business leaders have successfully lobbied to reduce trade
barriers so they can ship their production overseas where they can pay
less and ignore environmental standards.

> Now people expect it to cover all costs of living. Good one.
> Guess again people.

Sure, and he have to keep wages low so that the company owner can afford
to send his kids to school in their own BMWs.

[tert in seattle]

oh great I can't wait to hear more middle class success stories

[dsi1]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 1:32:24 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>
> Isn't it better than nothing?

Getting paid a couple of bucks an hour isn't the problem. The real problem is the cost of housing, education, and healthcare.

[Bruce]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 1:32:24 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it better than nothing?
>
>Getting paid a couple of bucks an hour isn't the problem. The real problem is the cost of housing, education, and healthcare.

I'm not saying minimum wage is good or enough, but without it, people
could get even less.

[Bruce]

I don't think the idea is to apply the same minimum wage to a 15 year
old and a 50 year old.

[dsi1]

In practice, your argument is specious. It's market conditions that set the real minimum wages. If you've ever gone into a McDonald's after the current round of renovations, the corporate plans for the future would be obvious from the layout.

[Cindy Hamilton]

A 50-year-old who is laid off from his job and can't get another
one in his previous occupation might end up working for minimum
wage.

Cindy Hamilton

[dsi1]

Minimum wages allow people to stuff their gullets with more cheap food but it doesn't help them afford a place to live or to educate themselves or get healthy.

I can understand your point of view - minimum wage laws help you feel better about yourself. OTOH, it doesn't really help people live like humans are supposed to. OTOH, maybe minimum wage laws work in your country. It doesn't change shit in this country - well, except make people feel better about themselves.

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 3:00:12 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:19:12 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 1:32:24 AM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Isn't it better than nothing?
> > >
> > >Getting paid a couple of bucks an hour isn't the problem. The real problem is the cost of housing, education, and healthcare.
> >
> > I'm not saying minimum wage is good or enough, but without it, people
> > could get even less.
>
> Minimum wages allow people to stuff their gullets with more cheap food but it doesn't help them afford a place to live or to educate themselves or get healthy.

What concrete steps do you intend to take to rectify the
situation?

Posting to Usenet is just so much hot air.

Cindy Hamilton

[dsi1]

I have no solution to this problem and posting to Usenet is just so much hot air. Let's talk about dishwashers instead. :)

[Bruce]

Yes, but I meant that the minimum wage for a 50 year old doesn't have
to be the same as for a 15 year old. In the Netherlands, the monthly
minimum wage for a 15 year old is USD 550. The minimum wage for
someone 21 and older is USD 1835.

[Bruce]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 12:00:07 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>

As I said, I'm not saying minimum wage is good or enough.

[dsi1]

What you said is that you're not saying something? That is quite the curious way to say something. Near as I can tell, what you're saying is that something is better than nothing. Well alright. :)

[Bruce]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 13:10:35 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net>

Yes, that's about it. Of course, it also depends what the something
is, as it will vary per country.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Doubt it would work here that simply. Two people doing the same job
should be paid the same wage. OTOH, certain jobs like paper routs and
baby sitting were typically done by teenagers for low wages.

The argument against minimum wage is that the market would take care of
it better than laws. I've seen it work in some places. My last place
was in the state of MA. The state minimum was higher than the federal
minimum, yet we paid even higher to get the people we wanted to work for
us. This was a low skilled job in many cases, just packing parts.

Some companies have jobs and offer the Federal minimum. People accept
that as fact, the best I can get. I have to wonder what would happen if
there was no mandate and people could negotiate on their own and go for
the employer with the best offer. Put a WalMart and Target across the
street from each other and see what they offer to get good people.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Nobody needs a dishwasher.

[John Kuthe]

I've got housing COVERED, plenty of education and refuse to buy FOR PROFIT Health Insurance on Principle! I'm an RN, I AM Healthcare! And a steady retirement income! :-)

John Kuthe...

[Ed Pawlowski]

Placed an order with Amazon for four items. They'll be here Friday.

[Bruce]

The market doesn't care if their employees die in the gutter.

[jay]

Why don't you actually go out and do something meaningful to help
improve all of these issues you see with the world and its people (you
excluded) instead of spending all of your time here yodeling?

[GM]

I teach work readiness skills to "at - need" people, the first thing I say to them is, "Some of you are worth $20.00 per hour to start, and some of you aren't even worth TWO cents to start. You are owed nothing, so which category are you in...???" That gets their attention, for sure...and that is how I "weed" peeps out...

;-)

Interestingly, some European social democracies - Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, and Sweden - that Democrats hold up as worthy examples have *no* minimum wage (this is from 2014):

[PS: remember "President" Obama, LOL...!!!???]

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/let-data-speak-truth-behind-minimum-wage-laws


"Let the Data Speak: The Truth Behind Minimum Wage Laws

By Steve H. Hanke

This article appeared in the April 2014 issue of Globe Asia.

President Obama set the chattering classes abuzz after his recent unilateral announcement to raise the minimum wage for newly hired Federal contract workers. During his State of the Union address in January, he sang the praises for his decision, saying that “It’s good for the economy; it’s good for America.” As the worldwide economic slump drags on, the political drumbeat to either introduce minimum wage laws (read: Germany) or increase the minimums in countries where these laws exist — such as Indonesia — is becoming deafening. Yet the glowing claims about minimum wage laws don’t pass the most basic economic tests. Just look at the data from Europe (see the accompanying chart).

There are seven European Union (E.U.) countries in which no minimum wage is mandated (Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, and Sweden). If we compare the levels of unemployment in these countries with E.U. countries that impose a minimum wage, the results are clear. A minimum wage leads to higher levels of unemployment. In the 21 countries with a minimum wage, the average country has an unemployment rate of 11.8%. Whereas, the average unemployment rate in the seven countries without mandated minimum wages is about one third lower — at 7.9%.

This point is even more pronounced when we look at rates of unemployment among the E.U.’s youth — defined as those younger than 25 years of age (see the accompanying chart).

In the twenty-one E.U. countries where there are minimum wage laws, 27.7% of the youth demographic — more than one in four young adults — was unemployed in 2012. This is considerably higher than the youth unemployment rate in the seven E.U. countries without minimum wage laws — 19.5% in 2012 — a gap that has only widened since the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008.

So, minimum wage laws — while advertised under the banner of social justice — do not live up to the claims made by those who tout them. They do not lift low wage earners to a so-called “social minimum”. Indeed, minimum wage laws — imposed at the levels employed in Europe — push a considerable number of people into unemployment. And, unless those newly unemployed qualify for government assistance (read: welfare), they will sink below, or further below, the social minimum.

As Nobelist Milton Friedman correctly quipped, “A minimum wage law is, in reality, a law that makes it illegal for an employer to hire a person with limited skills.”

Dr. Jens Weidmann, President of Germany’s Bundesbank,must have heard Prof. Friedman and looked at these European data before he took on Chancellor Angela Merkel for proposing the introduction of a minimum wage law in Germany. In short, Dr. Weidmann said that this would damage Germany’s labor market and be a German job killer. He is right.

And, executives surveyed in the recently released Duke University/CFO Magazine Global Business Outlook Survey agree, too. Indeed, Chief Financial Officers from around the world were interviewed and a significant number of them concurred: a minimum wage increase in the United States -from the current $7.25/hour to President Obama’s proposed $10.10/hour — would kill U.S. jobs. The accompanying table shows what the CFOs had to say.

Perhaps, Prof. Friedman said it best when he concluded that “The real tragedy of minimum wage laws is that they are supported by well-meaning groups who want to reduce poverty. But the people who are hurt most by high minimums are the most poverty stricken.”

High mandated minimum wages will throw people out of work and onto the welfare rolls in cases where unemployment benefits exist. When it comes to welfare payments, they obey the laws of economics, too. Indeed, if something — like unemployment — is subsidized, more of it will be produced. When the data on unemployment benefits speak, they tell us that if the unemployed receive unemployment benefits, the chances that they will become employed are reduced. Those data also show that the probability of an unemployed worker finding employment increases dramatically the closer an unemployed worker comes to the termination date for receipt of his unemployment benefits. In short, when the prospect of losing welfare benefits raises its head, unemployed workers magically tend to find work.

The most important lesson to take away from allowing the minimum wage and unemployment benefit data to talk is that abstract notions of what is right, good and just should be examined from a concrete, operational point of view. A dose of reality is most edifying..."

Steve H. Hanke is Professor of Applied Economics at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD. He is also a Senior Fellow and Director of the Troubled Currencies Project at the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C. You can follow him on Twitter: @Steve_Hanke

</>

[Bruce]

Am I able to make sure the US has a reasonable minimum wage and stops
handing out guns to retards? Do you have a roadmap for how to approach
that? I can't wait!

[GM]

In 2018 I placed 148 orders with Amazon, and 2019 looks to be slightly "better" - 76 and "counting" as of June 5th...

:-) :-) :-)


Amazon and other online merchandise platforms - and I am increasingly using Walmart - allow me a more gracious, efficient and fulfilling life...

And I'm not a wealthy guy, I am overwhelmingly "average" in all respects...I'm not a spendthrift, in fact ordering online is good "budgeting discipline"...also my time is worth money and now I don't have to run all over the place chasing/hauling goods - which a brick - and - mortar place may or may not have...

I'm simply AMAZED that we're able to avail ourselves of online merchandising platforms, it's beyond even the realm of the science fiction of the 60's - 70's I grew up reading...

I just received an Ebay item from Kiev, Ukraine...got here in five days, a reasonable price and superb service...so call me "middle class", LOL...

PS: and for IMBECILE 'Bwuce' up there, I've ordered plenty of stuff from Amazon Australia...great prices and great service, and NO VAT for me - HAHAHAHAAAA...!!!

--
Best
Greg

[Ed Pawlowski]

You are part of the market. You don't care if others die in the gutter?
Employers need people. Take away the government mandate that allows
them to pay weak wages and maybe people will value themselves more and
demand more and get more.

Many years ago people did that by forming unions. They worked. Instead
of moaning how you don't get paid enough, organize, walk out, get
together and boycott. Take charge of your life. Don't let the
government say you are worth a piddling wage, demand more.

[Bruce]

I'm my only employee. I care very much for my employee's well-being. I
couldn't wish for a better boss.

> Employers need people. Take away the government mandate that allows
>them to pay weak wages and maybe people will value themselves more and
>demand more and get more.

A minimum wage doesn't tell employers that that's what they have to
pay their employees.

>Many years ago people did that by forming unions. They worked. Instead
>of moaning how you don't get paid enough, organize, walk out, get
>together and boycott. Take charge of your life. Don't let the
>government say you are worth a piddling wage, demand more.

I'm starting to wonder if "minimum wage" means something else to me
than to Americans. (not being sarcastic)

[Ed Pawlowski]

No, it tells them what they can get away with. Most companies pay far
more than minimum because skilled and talented people are worth more.

Federal minimum is $7.25 but many states are higher.
https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/minimum-wage-by-state-and-2018-increases

Smart businesses know they get better workers when they pay more. Sure,
some would pay $1 if allowed, but few takers. Unemployment is low here
and if you have some ambition you can find a better job. I pay my
cleaning lady 4X the state minimum because she is worth it.

>
> I'm starting to wonder if "minimum wage" means something else to me
> than to Americans. (not being sarcastic)
>

Federal or State minimum wage you can pay.

[Bruce]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 23:05:57 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

>On 6/5/2019 8:35 PM, Bruce wrote:

>> A minimum wage doesn't tell employers that that's what they have to
>> pay their employees.
>>
>
>No, it tells them what they can get away with. Most companies pay far
>more than minimum because skilled and talented people are worth more.
>
>Federal minimum is $7.25 but many states are higher.
>https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/minimum-wage-by-state-and-2018-increases

In the Netherlands, it's around USD 11.25 per hour for people over 20.

>Smart businesses know they get better workers when they pay more. Sure,
>some would pay $1 if allowed, but few takers. Unemployment is low here
>and if you have some ambition you can find a better job. I pay my
>cleaning lady 4X the state minimum because she is worth it.
>
>> I'm starting to wonder if "minimum wage" means something else to me
>> than to Americans. (not being sarcastic)
>>
>Federal or State minimum wage you can pay.

You see minimum wage as an official permission to pay employees
peanuts. I see it as a guarantee that employees get paid some kind of
decent minimum. It stops employees from totally underpaying their
employees.

Whether your perspective or mine applies probably depends on how low
the minimum wage is.