Japanese show "Iron Chef" shown on Food Network in excellent dub
Dan Harkless
but in the US the Food Network has started airing Japan's popular
competitive cooking TV show "Iron Chef" (AKA "Ryouri No Tetsujin").
This is interesting because the show is very distinctively Japanese --
I'm sure the producers didn't imagine it'd eventually air in the West.
Many of the ingredients and dishes are totally unfamiliar to a non-Asian
audience.
I used to watch the show fairly religiously on a local UHF station
(KSCI, Los Angeles) during their Japanese programming block, and it was
shown in subtitled form (subtitled after the fact by someone in Hawaii).
One week, to my great dismay, a notice appeared before the show saying
that due to copyright violations, the show would be aired without
subtitles from then on. Now, I speak enough Japanese to get a fair
amount of enjoyment out of the show without the subtitles, but certainly
not as much, especially during the tasting/judging scenes.
Therefore I was overjoyed to find "Iron Chef" being shown in translated
form on the Food Network. Note I say "translated", not "subtitled".
Yes, the show is dubbed, which threw me at first. My knee-jerk reaction
is to hate all dub jobs, after years of watching dubbed Japanese
animation that didn't even come close to doing justice to the original.
Despite my pro-subtitle snobbery, however, I must say that this is a
really, really excellent dub job. For this show, where visuals (which
cooking fans will want to scrutinize without distraction) flash by at an
uncompromising rate, and there's non-stop commentary, subtitles really
don't work, unless you really simplify the translations (as the Hawaiian
subtitles did).
This practical necessity for dubbing didn't lull the English version
producers into just banging out a borderline-acceptable job, however.
Instead, they've done what is probably the best dub of a non-fiction TV
show or film ever (yes, I know that's not a huge category).
Most non-fiction dubbing that one sees is dubbing of interviews
conducted in foreign languages appearing on news shows or documentaries.
Usually, a rather emotionless read is done -- the interviewee's actual
voice is heard quietly in the background and this, along with the
interviewee's facial expressions, is relied upon to convey emotion and
nuance.
"Iron Chef" continues the tradition of including the original voices in
the background, but the faces of the commentators are not seen for most
of the show, so a dead read really would not be appropriate, and it's a
credit to the English-version producers that they fully realized this.
It's actually quite an unusual dubbing challenge -- dubbing live,
spontaneous commentary, without making the dub version sound scripted.
Impressively, this is pulled off without a hitch. Everything appears to
be faithful to the original, down to mistakes, laughter, people talking
over each other, and the rapid-fire "Fukui-san"s from floor
correspondant Ota-san.
Interestingly, the show is not entirely dubbed. This was apparently the
case for the first few episodes, but after that point, they stopped
dubbing the voice of the host, Kaga Takeshi, and starting subtitling
him. Just him. At first I found this combination of subtitling and
dubbing quite bizarre, and figured Kaga must have had something in his
contract preventing him from appearing dubbed or something. According
to www.foodtv.com, however, the subtitling of the host is done to answer
the critics who want to hear the original Japanese performances. Kaga
speaks in a fairly slow, deliberate meter, and the visuals accompanying
his pronouncements are less hectic. Thus, the show can afford to
require a little reading from the viewer at those points.
Again, I want to compliment the Food Network for making this fun show
accessible to American viewers, and for doing such a faithful job of
adaptation. Apparently the show is dubbed in Japan, and the English
version directors are Japanese, which no doubt helps a lot.
As an example of how much more faithful this show's treatment of
Japanese culture (and cuisine) is than the average, on the Pokemon
animated show, the characters are often shown eating onigiri, triangular
clumps of sticky rice surrounding a filling such as pickled vegetables,
wrapped in dried nori seaweed. Incongruously, on the English version of
Pokemon, these onigiri are referred to by the characters as "donuts"!
One can only hope that the attention to detail and the respect for the
material and for the audience shown by the English-version producers of
"Iron Chef" will stand as an example to other companies bringing
Japanese product to these shores.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Harkless | NOTE: Due to SPAM I have implemented a caller-
d...@wave.eng.uci.edu | ID-like policy for this account. Put "re-send"
Unitech Research, Inc. | in your Subject to bypass; finger me for more.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rikk Streng
news:7u64je$mm9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As an example of how much more faithful this show's treatment of
> Japanese culture (and cuisine) is than the average, on the Pokemon
> animated show, the characters are often shown eating onigiri, triangular
> clumps of sticky rice surrounding a filling such as pickled vegetables,
> wrapped in dried nori seaweed. Incongruously, on the English version of
> Pokemon, these onigiri are referred to by the characters as "donuts"!
>
I don't think Iron Chef and Pokemon are aimed at the same audience.
The fact that "purists" don't like dubs of children's anime is weird. The
show is dubbed for American children. In America, we have some different
customs, habits, hobbies, beliefs, and foods than our Japanese friends.
When the shows are originally made in Japan, they are designed to cater to
Japanese kids (when's the last time you saw an anime character eating
knockwurst?). When such a show is presented to American kids, the story has
to be adapted to get the same reaction from the child it is being shown to.
To an American child, a donut is a treat they can relate to. They know what
a donut looks like, and what they taste like. A candy bar, piece of gum,
slice of cake.. All things American kids know and desire. Onigiri?
American kids don't know what that is. You could say "rice ball" (and if
you were watching your Pokemon, you'd know that later on they *DO* call them
"rice balls") but an American kid doesn't relate rice to being a snack food.
Rice is served with soy sauce and meat & veggies, for dinner.
Yes, re-translating anime into an english cartoon can be rough on the
purist. But the purists aren't out buying all the toys and trading cards
and videotapes... The 4-year old throwing a temper tantrum in Toys R' Us is.
And there's alot more of him than there are of us.
-Rikk (who watches Iron Chef from time to time, and anime the rest of the
time)
Victor Kim
can't imagine dubbing that commentator-from-the-floor who talks 1000 words
a minute; that guy really pushed my listening ability to the limit. I'd
prefer subtitles myself, too, but let's hope this is a good trend for dub
productions. Thanks for the info.
Dan Harkless wrote:
> As an example of how much more faithful this show's treatment of
> Japanese culture (and cuisine) is than the average, on the Pokemon
> animated show, the characters are often shown eating onigiri, triangular
> clumps of sticky rice surrounding a filling such as pickled vegetables,
> wrapped in dried nori seaweed. Incongruously, on the English version of
> Pokemon, these onigiri are referred to by the characters as "donuts"!
>
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> Dan Harkless <d...@wave.eng.uci.edu> wrote in message
> news:7u64je$mm9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > As an example of how much more faithful this show's treatment of
> > Japanese culture (and cuisine) is than the average, on the Pokemon
> > animated show, the characters are often shown eating onigiri, triangular
> > clumps of sticky rice surrounding a filling such as pickled vegetables,
> > wrapped in dried nori seaweed. Incongruously, on the English version of
> > Pokemon, these onigiri are referred to by the characters as "donuts"!
> >
>
> I don't think Iron Chef and Pokemon are aimed at the same audience.
>
> The fact that "purists" don't like dubs of children's anime is weird. The
> show is dubbed for American children. In America, we have some different
> customs, habits, hobbies, beliefs, and foods than our Japanese friends.
> When the shows are originally made in Japan, they are designed to cater to
> Japanese kids (when's the last time you saw an anime character eating
> knockwurst?). When such a show is presented to American kids, the story has
> to be adapted to get the same reaction from the child it is being shown to.
> To an American child, a donut is a treat they can relate to. They know what
> a donut looks like, and what they taste like. A candy bar, piece of gum,
> slice of cake.. All things American kids know and desire. Onigiri?
> American kids don't know what that is. You could say "rice ball" (and if
> you were watching your Pokemon, you'd know that later on they *DO* call them
> "rice balls") but an American kid doesn't relate rice to being a snack food.
> Rice is served with soy sauce and meat & veggies, for dinner.
>
> Yes, re-translating anime into an english cartoon can be rough on the
> purist. But the purists aren't out buying all the toys and trading cards
> and videotapes... The 4-year old throwing a temper tantrum in Toys R' Us is.
> And there's alot more of him than there are of us.
>
It seems the Japanese creators of Pokemon were aware
of these differences even way back during production.
They were careful to limit Japanese culture references
so that they could sell Pokemon virtually anywhere.
Laters. =)
Stan
----------
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita Lost...@optonline.net
| ( _| | U of Rochester sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | | www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
/ \/ \| _ | |\ | uhura.cc.rochester.edu/~sd005e
/___/\/\___ __| |__|___| \ ___|
Mark L. Neidengard
Victor Kim <vic...@ece.nwu.edu> wrote:
>Wow, that's pretty tripped out. I used to watch that show in San Jose. I
>can't imagine dubbing that commentator-from-the-floor who talks 1000 words
>a minute; that guy really pushed my listening ability to the limit. I'd
>prefer subtitles myself, too, but let's hope this is a good trend for dub
>productions. Thanks for the info.
It's also a major shame that Ryouri no Tetsujin has been cancelled in Japan.
This sort of show is an example of what Japanese variety television can
accomplish when it's done right, and none of the Western competitive cooking
shows that the Food Network has can begin to hold a candle to it.
>Dan Harkless wrote:
>
>> Interestingly, the show is not entirely dubbed. This was apparently the
>> case for the first few episodes, but after that point, they stopped
>> dubbing the voice of the host, Kaga Takeshi, and starting subtitling
>> him. Just him. At first I found this combination of subtitling and
>> dubbing quite bizarre, and figured Kaga must have had something in his
>> contract preventing him from appearing dubbed or something. According
>> to www.foodtv.com, however, the subtitling of the host is done to answer
>> the critics who want to hear the original Japanese performances. Kaga
>> speaks in a fairly slow, deliberate meter, and the visuals accompanying
>> his pronouncements are less hectic. Thus, the show can afford to
>> require a little reading from the viewer at those points.
The local circle of fans of Ryouri no Tetsujin like to say that Kaga-san is
simply so powerful that there's no choice _but_ to dub him. I mean, he's got
_legions_ of chefs at his beck and call (at least to watch the opening
sequence ^_^) and has the clout to get all these nutsoid chefs to get on his
show.
Surely, the creation of the Kitchen Stadium and the sponsorship of the show is
one of the most original, positive uses I've heard of yet for surplus money
from the rich and famous. ^_^
--
/!\/!ark /!\!eidengard, EE Grad, VLSI. http://keyframe.cjas.org/~mneideng/
"Fairy of sleep, controller of illusions" Maigo no Daigakuinsei, Cornell U.
"Control the person for my own purpose." "Don't mess with the Dark Elves!"
-Pirotess, _Record_of_Lodoss_War_ Shadowrunner and Anime Addict
JF
wrote a fine synopsis of the translation of Iron Chef.
I was hooked on Iron Chef the first time I saw it.. Food TV's best
show in my opinion. In your treatise on the Iron Chef in America, I
can't believe you overlooked Food TV's extremely shoddy treatment
of this serious contest! I'm referring to the abrupt ending to a
recent battle that was about to go to overtime.
The decision was tied after tasting, so it was going to be my first
episode with the sudden death cookoff! Leave it to this serious
arena of cooking to have a true decision round-- a whole new
ingredient and a new round of dishes to decide the winner.
And right as they're about to reveal the sudden death ingredient..
Food Network cuts off the show and rolls the credits!
Ridiculous! Absurd! I thought of writing to the Japanese producers
and asking if they knew how the contest was treated in such a
flippant manner. Personally I have worked in television studios and
post production houses, I know about timing and scheduling of
shows, but this treatment really made me ill. (As I expect some of
the bitter fish innards and foagra would likely make me ill as well!
Is it strange that a vegetarian enjoys this show so much?)
Alex
( a little tongue in cheek )
Enrique Conty
Dan Harkless <d...@wave.eng.uci.edu> wrote:
>I know this is old news to many people (especially on alt.tv.iron-chef),
>but in the US the Food Network has started airing Japan's popular
>competitive cooking TV show "Iron Chef" (AKA "Ryouri No Tetsujin").
GRRRRR! You just *had* to remind me that I lost Food Network when
I moved and changed cable providers!!
>Many of the ingredients and dishes are totally unfamiliar to a non-Asian
>audience.
Unless you're into cooking! C'mon, everyone knows bamboo shoots! ^o^
--
E n r i q u e C o n t y
co...@enteract.com
http://www.enteract.com/~conty/
Rodrick Su
Mark L. Neidengard <mnei...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In article <3806C9AE...@ece.nwu.edu>,
>Victor Kim <vic...@ece.nwu.edu> wrote:
>>> Interestingly, the show is not entirely dubbed. This was apparently the
>>> case for the first few episodes, but after that point, they stopped
>>> dubbing the voice of the host, Kaga Takeshi, and starting subtitling
>>> him. Just him. At first I found this combination of subtitling and
>>> dubbing quite bizarre, and figured Kaga must have had something in his
>>> contract preventing him from appearing dubbed or something. According
>>> to www.foodtv.com, however, the subtitling of the host is done to answer
>>> the critics who want to hear the original Japanese performances. Kaga
>>> speaks in a fairly slow, deliberate meter, and the visuals accompanying
>>> his pronouncements are less hectic. Thus, the show can afford to
>>> require a little reading from the viewer at those points.
>
>simply so powerful that there's no choice _but_ to dub him. I mean, he's got
>_legions_ of chefs at his beck and call (at least to watch the opening
>sequence ^_^) and has the clout to get all these nutsoid chefs to get on his
>show.
My take is that his speach match his clothing style, and by not dubbing him,
we get a more sense of the exotica. Plus, he is just cool.
--
[ Rodrick Su [ ]
[ r...@tigana.com [ Life is a work in progress ]
PENMART10
>I was hooked on Iron Chef the first time I saw it.. Food TV's best show.
I actually watched Iron Chef twice, just to be sure the affront to my
sensibility was not imagined.
Iron Chef is as much about cooking as professional wrassling is about
sportsmanship -- both absurdly orchestrated spectacles centered about an arena
of pompous buffoonary, each attempting to portray what they are obviously not,
class acts -- I can certainly understand how those enthralled with wrassling
would be equally so with iron chef. At least with Emeril's schtick there are
no false pretenses. Hey, all cooking shows are primarily entertainment for the
sole purpose of commercialism, that of promoting home cooking products - just
who do you think comprises the consortium that finances Food TV? Were cooking
shows meant to be educational they'd be aired on the Discovery Channel.
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
Qui...@windmill.com
The overtime battle was shown the following week on TVFN. Btw, the
challenger won, and deservedly so.
On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:21:53 GMT, a...@homer.com (JF) wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 02:47:13 GMT, Dan Harkless <d...@wave.eng.uci.edu>
>wrote a fine synopsis of the translation of Iron Chef.
>
>I was hooked on Iron Chef the first time I saw it.. Food TV's best
>show in my opinion. In your treatise on the Iron Chef in America, I
>can't believe you overlooked Food TV's extremely shoddy treatment
>of this serious contest! I'm referring to the abrupt ending to a
>recent battle that was about to go to overtime.
>
>The decision was tied after tasting, so it was going to be my first
>episode with the sudden death cookoff! Leave it to this serious
>arena of cooking to have a true decision round-- a whole new
>ingredient and a new round of dishes to decide the winner.
>
>And right as they're about to reveal the sudden death ingredient..
>
>Food Network cuts off the show and rolls the credits!
>
>Ridiculous! Absurd! I thought of writing to the Japanese producers
>and asking if they knew how the contest was treated in such a
>flippant manner. Personally I have worked in television studios and
>post production houses, I know about timing and scheduling of
>shows, but this treatment really made me ill. (As I expect some of
>the bitter fish innards and foagra would likely make me ill as well!
>Is it strange that a vegetarian enjoys this show so much?)
>
>
>Alex
>( a little tongue in cheek )
--
Reply to "CP at ix dot netcom dot com"
Chris Paquette
Charles Eicher
>
>I know this is old news to many people (especially on alt.tv.iron-chef),
>but in the US the Food Network has started airing Japan's popular
>competitive cooking TV show "Iron Chef" (AKA "Ryouri No Tetsujin").
More like a blast from the past. I recall seeing tapes of Iron Chef about 5 or 6
years ago, it would have been a new show back then, I think. My language
teachers brought tapes back to show as an example of the excesses of Japanese
TV.
>This is interesting because the show is very distinctively Japanese --
Gosh, do you really think so?
>I'm sure the producers didn't imagine it'd eventually air in the West.
I'm sure the producers didn't think it had much chance of airing in Japan
either.
>Many of the ingredients and dishes are totally unfamiliar to a non-Asian
>audience.
Gee, no kidding. Most of the dishes are completely unknown to the chefs, until
about 10 minutes before they're served.
>I used to watch the show fairly religiously on a local UHF station
>(KSCI, Los Angeles) during their Japanese programming block, and it was
>shown in subtitled form (subtitled after the fact by someone in Hawaii).
>One week, to my great dismay, a notice appeared before the show saying
>that due to copyright violations, the show would be aired without
>subtitles from then on. Now, I speak enough Japanese to get a fair
>amount of enjoyment out of the show without the subtitles, but certainly
>not as much, especially during the tasting/judging scenes.
I think you've mischaracterized the reasons for ending of subtitling, which was
for entirely different reasons than you think.
>Therefore I was overjoyed to find "Iron Chef" being shown in translated
>form on the Food Network. Note I say "translated", not "subtitled".
>Yes, the show is dubbed, which threw me at first. My knee-jerk reaction
>is to hate all dub jobs, after years of watching dubbed Japanese
>animation that didn't even come close to doing justice to the original.
>
>Despite my pro-subtitle snobbery,
blah blah blah. You must be an otaku, nobody else spends so much time thinking
about such trivialities.
I think the only reason Iron Chef is popular is because someone invented a
drinking game:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jburkhart1/ironchef/icdg.htm
Boy those otaku really know how to party!
>Again, I want to compliment the Food Network for making this fun show
>accessible to American viewers, and for doing such a faithful job of
>adaptation. Apparently the show is dubbed in Japan, and the English
>version directors are Japanese, which no doubt helps a lot.
Iron Chef is perfect eye-candy for mindless TV viewing, which I imagine is one
of the reasons for its popularity amongst otaku. Its full of eye-popping
high-production-value effects (considering that its just a cheap live
production), it has cult status with all sorts of idiocy like drinking games,
and has that "exotic foreign" sense that the otaku love. But its really just
pure crap TV.
>As an example of how much more faithful this show's treatment of
>Japanese culture (and cuisine) is than the average, on the Pokemon
>animated show, the characters are often shown eating onigiri, triangular
>clumps of sticky rice surrounding a filling such as pickled vegetables,
>wrapped in dried nori seaweed. Incongruously, on the English version of
>Pokemon, these onigiri are referred to by the characters as "donuts"!
You're missing the whole point of the show. The show is a group of chefs,
performing for the commentator, and most of all, the panel. The panel represents
people from different classes, usually it includes a salaryman, a professor, an
actress, and a middle-aged housewife. Each of them responds with comments in a
different level of language and "reserve" since direct criticism is usually
avoided in the Japanese language. The show is there to represent the tastes of
various classes of Japanese people, it really isn't centered around the chefs.
Japanese media has a tendency to preach at people what their tastes and beliefs
SHOULD be like, and this is a perfect example. The Japanese media system thinks
it is the creator and distributor of common taste, and to a large degree this is
true. It must preserve what it percieves as common "traditional" values, and not
push TOO far.
I'll give an oblique example, from a famous scene in the movie Tampopo. There is
an early scene in the movie where a group of 10 elderly businessmen go together
for lunch, taking their office-boy with them. You can tell they treat him like a
flunkie because he has to carry all their briefcases, which he fumbles with like
a clown. When they are all seated at this fine restaurant, you can tell its a
big company expense-account meal. But all the old men order bland food, like
poached fish with tea. When it finally comes time for the flunkie to order, you
can suddenly tell that he is in his element. He queries if the chef has trained
in Paris at a legendary restaurant, he knows and negotiates the details of a
sumptuous meal, with a vintage wine, while his boss is kicking his ankles under
the table.
Ah, but if you understand the scene in Japanese, it has a whole different level.
The older men, when it comes time to order, are using language that roughly
translates like, "perhaps, if it isn't too much trouble, I could have the
poached fish?" They're talking like whining old ladies. But when the young man
orders, he speaks in polite but direct forms, like "I heard that the chef
trained at Restaurant X in Paris. Is that true?" It immediately crystallizes the
scene's focus. In front of one's elders, younger employees are expected to speak
in very polite forms, while your bosses "speak down" to you in a more impolite
form. But now the young man finds himself in a position to "speak down" to the
waiter, who answers back in polite forms. And he makes the waiter squirm, and
negotiates a four star lunch that is going to take about an hour longer to
prepare than his bosses' lunch. As the low man on the totem pole, he is
especially out of place to pull such a stunt, but he sees his advantage, and
siezes the moment.
The scene is more a commentary on the "ijime" (bullying, usually from
"superiors" to "inferiors") and his little act of rebellion. But a lot of this
social-class structure is immediately obvious in japanese speech that aren't
obvious at all in translations, like Iron Chef. I think you've missed the point,
but hey, I guess you can take whatever you want from these shows, even if it
isn't really there in the program. That's what otaku DO.
>One can only hope that the attention to detail and the respect for the
>material and for the audience shown by the English-version producers of
>"Iron Chef" will stand as an example to other companies bringing
>Japanese product to these shores.
I hope that overproduced garbage like Iron Chef end up where they belong, in the
recycle bin at the TV station. This stuff was intended to be trivial, throwaway
programming, you're making much more out of it than is really there. But then,
so did the producers of Iron Chef.
IAPW
"Rikk Streng" <ri...@nac.ne.t.no.spam> wrote:
US TV shows are shown around the world. US shows for kids are shown
around the kid. Those US shows are translated much more literally
and aren't adapted to the foreign cultures. How come kids in
other countries can accetpt the foreign (to them) US culture in
our TV shows while US kids can't accept it of other cultures. Is
it something natural? Is it something environmental? Is it due
to the physical position of the US on the globe? Is it because
of 3 mile island?
IAPW
>> our TV shows while US kids can't accept it of other cultures?
>No, it's because people in other countries haven't figured out how to
>adapt the shows.
Nancy, that isn't an answer to my question. Note: When answering
a question about "kids in other countries", it's a good thing to
actually mention "kids in other countries". Otherwise, there's
a good reason to believe it's not an answer at all.
>(snork) Give me a break, what a ridiculous troll.
Sheesh. That's an insult. That title belongs to Dan Tropea.
Like, duh.
cheshir...@my-deja.com
Dan Harkless <d...@wave.eng.uci.edu> wrote:
> I know this is old news to many people (especially on alt.tv.iron-
chef),
> but in the US the Food Network has started airing Japan's popular
> competitive cooking TV show "Iron Chef" (AKA "Ryouri No Tetsujin").
>
Asian
> audience.
>
> (KSCI, Los Angeles) during their Japanese programming block, and it
was
> shown in subtitled form (subtitled after the fact by someone in
Hawaii).
> One week, to my great dismay, a notice appeared before the show saying
> that due to copyright violations, the show would be aired without
> subtitles from then on. Now, I speak enough Japanese to get a fair
> amount of enjoyment out of the show without the subtitles, but
certainly
> not as much, especially during the tasting/judging scenes.
>
translated
> form on the Food Network. Note I say "translated", not "subtitled".
> Yes, the show is dubbed, which threw me at first. My knee-jerk
reaction
> is to hate all dub jobs, after years of watching dubbed Japanese
> animation that didn't even come close to doing justice to the
original.
Is "Iron-Chef" an FCI program? (Fujisenki Television?) They are the
ones who usually make a big stink about copyright in regards to
subtitling. The International Channel used to show FCI programs (the
dramas) with subtitles, but they don't anymore because of the above
statement. I now do not watch FCI programing anymore, which is a shame
cause they had some really great programmes.
Cheerz,
Cheshirecat
cheshirecat100(AT)hotmail(DOT)com
Michal Dworaczek
Yup, Iron Cheff is an awesome TV prog. but I would prefer to see it
subtiteled.
--
,-~~-.___. <---------------------------------------->
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( ) 0 -=| dwor...@yahoo.com |=-
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YOU CAN ALSO CONTACT ME USING ICQ - MY NUMBER IS 5922615
Bill and Cat
: Yup, Iron Cheff is an awesome TV prog. but I would prefer to see it
: subtiteled.
*** I would really like to know if the Iron Chef's ever lose. Did see a
tie once, but then the overtime cook off was not shown.
--
Bill
=============================================================================
Bill and Cat St. Cloud, Minnesota hilb...@cloudnet.com
" It's A Magical World, Hobbes, Ol' Buddy... ...Let's Go Exploring ! "
Calvin's Last Words 12/31/95
=============================================================================
dh
reference to the fact that on a previous show, the Iron Chef had lost to
the mother of his current challenger.
Jeffrey P. Vasquez
> I'm not entirely happy with some of the dubbing, though. Dubbing the
>commentators and the opening montages is a good idea, but it's really
>jarring to see the dubbing of the judges. Especially when they chose to
>leave the announcer's voice alone - his talking is *always* subtitled, not
>dubbed. A very strange mixture. Of course, I have the chance to watch the
>original show on the Bay Area's Asian channel, so maybe I'm biased.
I was waiting for a dissenting opinion. I've tried to sit through the
dubbed version of the show three times now and find it horrific. The
translation takes alot of liberties to appeal to American audiences, I
thought. The subbed version was much, much better, IMHO.
And they have the guy from Taste, what's his name? Dave Rosen? Ugh, that
truly ruins it for me.
Jeffrey P. Vasquez
>I think the whole thing was great fun. Where else can you witness
>"Battle Tuna" and fishskin ice cream. Too bad the copyright hassles
>with the food network messed up the subtitles for us here in the bay
>area. I hope I'll get to see it again, sometime.
Is that why we lost it?!?!? Man, that really steams me. I enjoyed it so
much more on our local PBS station than the lame attempt on FoodTV. Feh.
Qui...@windmill.com
Yes, Iron Chefs do lose - but not very often. I heard mention of the fact
that one IC lost three consecutive battles and resigned his post in
disgrace.
The IC also lost in the overtime battle you mention (if it's the same OT
battle as the one I'm thinking of - battle of two Chinese-style chefs).
Btw, the OT battle was shown the following week, if it's the TVFN version
you're speaking of.
On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:09:20 GMT, Bill and Cat
<hilb...@antares.cloudnet.com> wrote:
>In rec.food.cooking Michal Dworaczek <dwor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>: Yup, Iron Cheff is an awesome TV prog. but I would prefer to see it
>: subtiteled.
>
>*** I would really like to know if the Iron Chef's ever lose. Did see a
>tie once, but then the overtime cook off was not shown.
--
Dan Harkless
>> I used to watch the show fairly religiously on a local UHF station
>> (KSCI, Los Angeles) during their Japanese programming block, and it was
>> shown in subtitled form (subtitled after the fact by someone in Hawaii).
>> One week, to my great dismay, a notice appeared before the show saying
>> that due to copyright violations, the show would be aired without
>> subtitles from then on. Now, I speak enough Japanese to get a fair
>> amount of enjoyment out of the show without the subtitles, but certainly
>> not as much, especially during the tasting/judging scenes.
>
Fujisankei Communications, Inc.? Yeah.
>They are the ones who usually make a big stink about copyright in regards
>to subtitling. The International Channel used to show FCI programs (the
>dramas)
Any with Tokiwa Takako? ^_^
>with subtitles, but they don't anymore because of the above statement. I
>now do not watch FCI programing anymore, which is a shame cause they had
>some really great programmes.
That's interesting -- I didn't know they did that as a policy. That would
seem to contradict Charles Eicher's insinuation that the ending of IC
subtitling was solely to prevent cannibalization of the dubbed version's
audience.
Oh well, I suppose watching the non-subtitled versions of these shows is
better practice for those of us who are students of Japanese, even if
nothing else good can be said about the state of affairs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Harkless | NOTE: Due to SPAM I have implemented a caller-ID-
d...@wave.eng.uci.edu | like policy for this account. Put "re-send" in
Unitech Research, Inc. | your Subject to bypass or finger me for more info.
Charles Eicher
>
>That's interesting -- I didn't know they did that as a policy. That would
>seem to contradict Charles Eicher's insinuation that the ending of IC
>subtitling was solely to prevent cannibalization of the dubbed version's
>audience.
That is not what I said, I merely said it subtitling was not cancelled for
reasons you think.
FCI clearly stated that they do not consider English-speaking people as their
target audience, and the production of subtitles was too costly when it didn't
even serve their main audience. Neither FCI nor I made any further remarks about
ending their subtitled service. Don't project your own subjective evaluation
onto the business practices of large Japanese corporations, because you'd be
completely wrong.
>Oh well, I suppose watching the non-subtitled versions of these shows is
>better practice for those of us who are students of Japanese, even if
>nothing else good can be said about the state of affairs.
Plenty of good things can be said for removal of subtitles. I remember seeing
one historical drama where they're discussing Genji, and the text is put on the
screen as they recite it. Subtitles showing the classical Japanese language were
covered up by English subs.
atholbrose
>I hope that overproduced garbage like Iron Chef end up where they belong, in the
>recycle bin at the TV station. This stuff was intended to be trivial, throwaway
>programming, you're making much more out of it than is really there. But then,
>so did the producers of Iron Chef.
You're really full of yourself, aren't you?
--
r. n. dominick -- cinn...@one.net
(or is that something else?)
Charles Eicher
>
>I didn't say you said that, I said you insinuated it. Since you never
>responded to my guess at what you meant by that oblique reference, I assumed
>I was right.
I try to restrict my involvement in threads involving the subjects of obsession
by otaku. You are doing such a good job of discrediting yourself, I hardly
needed to contribute any further.
>As I said, the version I used to watch was subtitled by a third party in
>Hawaii. I don't believe FCI paid for them to do this,
You're guessing again. Subtitled broadcasts were clearly done with Fujisankei's
involvement, if not through their own facilities. Haven't you ever heard of
out-sourcing?
>and the message about
>ceasing subtitles due to copyright violation wouldn't make any sense if that
>were the case.
There was no such message, at least, not from Fujisankei or anyone who actually
knows what's going on.
>I'm not "projecting" anything onto FCI -- I'm just taking
>them at their word: subtitling was stopped because the organization doing
>it had no legal right to do so.
Nobody does anything with Fujisankei broadcasts without explicit consent and
contractual obligations. For example, the satellite channel SCOLA rebroadcasts
45 minutes of Fujisankei news every day. But once every few months, SCOLA
web-casts their channel, and they drop fujisankei news.. until its off the web
again. SCOLA said that FCI will not consent to 3rd party net-casting their
programs.
FCI clearly said it dropped subtitling because non-Japanese speakers are not
their target market, and it was too expensive to continue subtitling. If you
want to read anything more into that statement, it will merely be your own
delusion. Perhaps you should educate yourself about the Japanese media before
making such ridiculous guesses about their motivations.
>Perhaps you meant the Japanese would have found those English subtitles
>offensive, as they might have liked to have read the Japanese ones
>underneath.
What I said was, English subtitles obscured the Japanese subtitles. This made it
impossible to read the classical text, which even most native speakers would
want to see. If you consider that "offensive" then, once again, you are putting
words in my mouth.
>Well, sure, any English subtitles are just covering up image
>that they might want to see, unless they use the subtitles to help in
>learning English.
Why would anyone watch a drama about Genji if they were trying to learn English?
Especially considering that English-language programming with Japanese subtitles
is plentiful?
>Regardless, I was speaking from the point of view of a
>non-Japanese native.
So was I. But not anymore. I'm sick of arguing with some obsessed otaku like
you, about issues I care nothing about. I dislike subtitles, and I think Iron
Chef (and its devotees) are incredibly stupid, but neither of these are
sufficient to motivate me to bother arguing with you any further.
Dan Harkless
> >That's interesting -- I didn't know they did that as a policy. That would
> >seem to contradict Charles Eicher's insinuation that the ending of IC
> >subtitling was solely to prevent cannibalization of the dubbed version's
> >audience.
>
> That is not what I said, I merely said it subtitling was not cancelled for
> reasons you think.
I didn't say you said that, I said you insinuated it. Since you never
responded to my guess at what you meant by that oblique reference, I assumed
I was right.
> FCI clearly stated that they do not consider English-speaking people as
> their target audience, and the production of subtitles was too costly when
> it didn't even serve their main audience. Neither FCI nor I made any
> further remarks about ending their subtitled service. Don't project your
> own subjective evaluation onto the business practices of large Japanese
> corporations, because you'd be completely wrong.
As I said, the version I used to watch was subtitled by a third party in
Hawaii. I don't believe FCI paid for them to do this, and the message about
ceasing subtitles due to copyright violation wouldn't make any sense if that
were the case. I'm not "projecting" anything onto FCI -- I'm just taking
them at their word: subtitling was stopped because the organization doing
it had no legal right to do so.
> >Oh well, I suppose watching the non-subtitled versions of these shows is
> >better practice for those of us who are students of Japanese, even if
> >nothing else good can be said about the state of affairs.
>
> Plenty of good things can be said for removal of subtitles. I remember
> seeing one historical drama where they're discussing Genji, and the text
> is put on the screen as they recite it. Subtitles showing the classical
> Japanese language were covered up by English subs.
Right. So removing the English subtitles would help students of Japanese,
because they'd be able to see the Japanese subtitles. Like I said.
Perhaps you meant the Japanese would have found those English subtitles
offensive, as they might have liked to have read the Japanese ones
underneath. Well, sure, any English subtitles are just covering up image
that they might want to see, unless they use the subtitles to help in
learning English. Regardless, I was speaking from the point of view of a
non-Japanese native.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill and Cat
: Perhaps you meant the Japanese would have found those English subtitles
: offensive, as they might have liked to have read the Japanese ones
: underneath. Well, sure, any English subtitles are just covering up image
: that they might want to see, unless they use the subtitles to help in
: learning English. Regardless, I was speaking from the point of view of a
: non-Japanese native.
*** Maybe there were those who felt that an accurate English translation
would be considered offensive by the Non-Japanese audence. I for one would
like to know what the taste panel really had to say.
--
Bill and Cat
: On this past Saturday's 1 AM (Eastern) show, the announcers made
: reference to the fact that on a previous show, the Iron Chef had lost to
: the mother of his current challenger.
*** True... and that is one show that we have not seen broadcast on
American TV.
: Bill and Cat wrote:
:>
:> In rec.food.cooking Michal Dworaczek <dwor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:>
:> : Yup, Iron Cheff is an awesome TV prog. but I would prefer to see it
:> : subtiteled.
:>
:> *** I would really like to know if the Iron Chef's ever lose. Did see a
:> tie once, but then the overtime cook off was not shown.
:> --
:> Bill
:> =============================================================================
Young
> *** Maybe there were those who felt that an accurate English translation
> would be considered offensive by the Non-Japanese audence. I for one would
> like to know what the taste panel really had to say.
Wouldn't it be funny if I sent my Japanese stepmother a tape and asked
her to translate? Maybe I'll bring one over. Maybe. She'd be amazed,
and ask, why are you watching?! when in fact, I've never seen the show.
nancy
Charles Eicher
>
>In rec.arts.tv on 19 Oct 1999 21:49:34 -0700, Charles Eicher
><cei...@inav.net> wrote:
>
>There are people (caucasian fans of IC) in the San Francisco Bay Area
>who would have you tarred and feathered for making a remark like that;
>then, they would make you ride out of town on BART's third rail.
Yeah right. These are the people who invented the drinking game? I've lived in
San Francisco, right on Haight Street, and I'm fully aware of the facism of the
"counterculture" who insist that everyone MUST be unique in exactly THEIR way.
>And,
>most of those fans have no interest in other Japanese programs. They
>like Iron Chef because it's an interesting and amusing show. If you
>have only seen the dubbed version you are in no position to judge it.
You obviously missed my earlier remarks. I am probably one of the first 20
people in the USA who ever saw this show. My Japanese teacher brought back a
tape, just after it premiered on Japanese TV. No, it wasn't dubbed.
As far as not having an interest in other Japanese programs, that is obvious. I
attempted to put this show in wider context of the Japanese media, but that's
too disturbing for the Iron Chef otaku to deal with. I remind you, I've lived in
Japan and I've seen far more Japanese TV than any of you otaku have. I've even
appeared on Japanese TV (for about 2 seconds) and visited the NHK studios. But I
am completely unable to place the show in the context of the otaku world, I'm
not an otaku.
Charles Eicher
>
>In article <7ulvuc$26...@edrn.newsguy.com>,
>Charles Eicher <cei...@inav.net> wrote:
>>appeared on Japanese TV (for about 2 seconds) and visited the NHK studios. But I
>>am completely unable to place the show in the context of the otaku world, I'm
>>not an otaku.
>
>obsession with pointing out to people how their hobbies and creations are
>a waste of time and of no value whatsoever, hurling insults along the way!
As usual, you have your head up your ass. I only comment on otaku when they
intrude into my scholarly turf. If I was an otaku by your description, I'd go
out of my way to make a nuisance in rec.arts.anime or some rubbish-bin like
that. But I don't.
>I would guess that over half your usenet posts consist of this, and for
>what possible reason could you have to do this other than because you
>enjoy it?
I admit to taking more pleasure than I should, at seeing otaku receive the
derision they so richly deserve. But I write far more about other subjects than
you would ever know, because I never write to otaku newsgroups unless someone
crossposts. The vast bulk of my efforts are not on usenet, they're hidden and
you're not invited.
>You can't honestly say that it does any good, can you?
Of course not. I can't do anything for otaku, IMO they're incorrigible. Besides,
I'm not licensed to dispense Lithium and Prozac. See a doctor for your
obsessive-compulsive disorders.
>Hell, if
>anything, it has the opposite effect! Every time I read one of your
>otaku-bashing posts, I feel like going out and having some mindless,
>brain-numbing fun. "Hoo, yeah! Drinking Sapporo Blacks until I puke! Now
>Charles would REALLY think that this is a waste of time!" ROTFLOL!
Might be the best thing that ever happened to you. Maybe you could puke on
someone, and end up having a real face-to-face conversation with a live human
being, instead of sitting around your room counting your Transformers toys over
and over.
>Oh
>man, it's so ironic! You try and 'help' us, but all you end up doing is
>making the situation worse!
I'm not here to help you, I'm here to tell you to keep your obsessions out of my
face. I don't post messages about Japanese language problems to
alt.toys.transformers, and I'd appreciate if you'd keep your otaku shit out of
the Japan-related newsgroups.
Dan Harkless
> You are doing such a good job of discrediting yourself, I hardly needed to
> contribute any further.
Nice spin. You in the PR business by any chance?
> >As I said, the version I used to watch was subtitled by a third party in
> >Hawaii. I don't believe FCI paid for them to do this, and the message
> >about ceasing subtitles due to copyright violation wouldn't make any
> >sense if that were the case.
>
> There was no such message,
I'm so glad you have a better handle on what enters my ocular nerves than I
do.
> at least, not from Fujisankei or anyone who actually knows what's going
> on.
So the announcement about copyright violation was just some crazy fantasy
cooked up by my local station for reasons unknown??? That makes sense.
> >I'm not "projecting" anything onto FCI -- I'm just taking
> >them at their word: subtitling was stopped because the organization doing
> >it had no legal right to do so.
>
> Nobody does anything with Fujisankei broadcasts without explicit consent and
> contractual obligations.
And if anyone so much as thinks about it, the hand of God comes down out of
the clouds and strikes them dead? Ever hear of fan subs?
> >Perhaps you meant the Japanese would have found those English subtitles
> >offensive, as they might have liked to have read the Japanese ones
> >underneath.
>
> What I said was, English subtitles obscured the Japanese subtitles. This
> made it impossible to read the classical text, which even most native
> speakers would want to see.
Uh, isn't that what I just said?
> If you consider that "offensive" then, once again, you are putting words
> in my mouth.
I should have known better when talking to you than to use a word that can
be willfully misconstrued. I should have said "annoying".
> >Well, sure, any English subtitles are just covering up image
> >that they might want to see, unless they use the subtitles to help in
> >learning English.
>
> Why would anyone watch a drama about Genji if they were trying to learn
> English?
Perhaps because they're trying to learn English as quickly as possible and
this is yet another opportunity? Because they don't have to feel guilty
about spending time watching TV imported from the home country if it can
provide some modicum of English instruction?
> Especially considering that English-language programming with
> Japanese subtitles is plentiful?
Anyone with half a brain can see that experience with English->Japanese
translation is not the same thing as experience with Japanese->English.
> I'm sick of arguing with some obsessed otaku like you, about issues I care
> nothing about. I dislike subtitles, and I think Iron Chef (and its
> devotees) are incredibly stupid, but neither of these are sufficient to
> motivate me to bother arguing with you any further.
I don't consider Iron Chef worthy of copious debate either -- it was your
baseless insults and leaps of illogic that compelled me to respond.
Kay
>So was I. But not anymore. I'm sick of arguing with some obsessed otaku like
>you, about issues I care nothing about. I dislike subtitles, and I think Iron
>Chef (and its devotees) are incredibly stupid, but neither of these are
>sufficient to motivate me to bother arguing with you any further.
There are people (caucasian fans of IC) in the San Francisco Bay Area
who would have you tarred and feathered for making a remark like that;
then, they would make you ride out of town on BART's third rail. And,
Jordan S Derber
Charles Eicher <cei...@inav.net> wrote:
>appeared on Japanese TV (for about 2 seconds) and visited the NHK studios. But I
>am completely unable to place the show in the context of the otaku world, I'm
>not an otaku.
Oh, but you are, Charles, you are! Don't you see? You seem to have this
obsession with pointing out to people how their hobbies and creations are
a waste of time and of no value whatsoever, hurling insults along the way!
I would guess that over half your usenet posts consist of this, and for
what possible reason could you have to do this other than because you
enjoy it? You can't honestly say that it does any good, can you? Hell, if
anything, it has the opposite effect! Every time I read one of your
otaku-bashing posts, I feel like going out and having some mindless,
brain-numbing fun. "Hoo, yeah! Drinking Sapporo Blacks until I puke! Now
Charles would REALLY think that this is a waste of time!" ROTFLOL! Oh
man, it's so ironic! You try and 'help' us, but all you end up doing is
making the situation worse! If I were you, I'd forget the usenet and go
back to reading Japanese books about parakeets or something, you'll waste
a hell of a lot less time that way! Otherwise, you're most likely going
to burn with the rest of us, boke rojin!
Jordan Derber, Uber-Otaku
aka H-K
aka Buster Darkwings
Jordan S Derber
Charles Eicher <cei...@inav.net> wrote:
>As usual, you have your head up your ass. I only comment on otaku when they
>intrude into my scholarly turf. If I was an otaku by your description, I'd go
>out of my way to make a nuisance in rec.arts.anime or some rubbish-bin like
>that. But I don't.
>
But still, you go out of your way. You first started posting to this
thread (and many others) with nothing but your usual rants. Nobody
forced you to take place in this discussion. You talk and you talk and
you talk, but nothing good comes from your posts. So why do you bother?
You're obsessed, just like an otaku.
>I admit to taking more pleasure than I should, at seeing otaku receive the
>derision they so richly deserve. But I write far more about other subjects than
>you would ever know, because I never write to otaku newsgroups unless someone
>crossposts. The vast bulk of my efforts are not on usenet, they're hidden and
>you're not invited.
>
Aww gee, and I was so looking forward to hearing a boring lecture on some
boring subject that only affects boring intellectuals with no real place
in the world.
>Of course not. I can't do anything for otaku, IMO they're incorrigible. Besides,
>I'm not licensed to dispense Lithium and Prozac. See a doctor for your
>obsessive-compulsive disorders.
Heh, what makes you think I haven't already? I'm incurable, baby, and I
wanna stay that way!
>Might be the best thing that ever happened to you. Maybe you could puke on
>someone, and end up having a real face-to-face conversation with a live human
>being, instead of sitting around your room counting your Transformers toys over
>and over.
Nah, I did that yesterday. I think I'll arrange them in alphabetical
order.
>I'm not here to help you, I'm here to tell you to keep your obsessions out of my
>face. I don't post messages about Japanese language problems to
>alt.toys.transformers, and I'd appreciate if you'd keep your otaku shit out of
>the Japan-related newsgroups.
>
Where do you think the word otaku originated, Cambodia? I've yet to
start an offtopic thread, (that's according to the groups' charters,
not your twisted ideas of a perfect newsgroup), so I'll post any time, any
where I damn well please, and if you don't like that, you have several
choices: you can tell your computer to skip the article, you can killfile
me, you can ignore me, or you can go and do something useful. Maybe then
_you_ could end up having a meaningful life, instead of writing BS that no
one cares about and complaing about the damn kids today like some
stereotypical old man.
Wang Ba-dan
Charles Eicher wrote and I snipped it out:
{deleted}
Sounds pretty simple to me Charlie...change the channel.
Twitchy Witchy
I'm so glad I found this, it was like reading a time capsule :) and the dubbing still hold up in 2023, i actually found this post because i was trying to look up how the dubbing was done, it's so natural, nothing of it's quality has been done before or since.
Michael Trew
You kids and your Google Groups!
dsi1
> On Fri
>
> I'm so glad I found this, it was like reading a time capsule :) and the dubbing still hold up in 2023, i actually found this post because i was trying to look up how the dubbing was done, it's so natural, nothing of it's quality has been done before or since.
dsi1
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.food.cooking/c/EB9UcRrbU58/m/gIjp4NTeLysJ
Bruce
lot of subservient Japanese chefs who, when "interviewed", never
uttered more than "I'll do my best". And Japanese women in the jury
who all looked the same and had the same little mannerisms and the
same little giggles with a hand in front of their mouth.
dsi1
Near as I can tell, the dubbing was done by the same staff of vocal talent so that tends to give a repetitious element to the show. They should have had some guest celebrity dubbing the voices of the Iron Chefs. That would have been a hoot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQLdyBU0xqI
cshenk
reasons. Among them slurping noodles can be messy.
We watched the Iron Chef reruns in Japan. Sadly no dubbing but we
lived out in town and there was very little TV in English. We watched
a lot of DVDs, often rented at the rental place on base.
dsi1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LJqZSUxAS9ijQ2HX8
Bruce
dsi1
Bruce
>I'm pretty much the same as I've always
>been. That is a very good thing.
Hank Rogers
cshenk
the left hand to cover while using the right hand for the chopsticks.
Nice snackies!
Hank Rogers
buttocks when they fart in a fancy restaurant?
Except on hiwaii ... then they shift to their right buttocks to
fart.
Asian customs are very complicated.
Twitchy Witchy
Twitchy Witchy
bruce bowser
Bruce
<amand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 12:55:33 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 6:06:40 AM UTC-10, Twitchy Witchy wrote:
>> > On Fri
>> >
>> > I'm so glad I found this, it was like reading a time capsule :) and the dubbing still hold up in 2023, i actually found this post because i was trying to look up how the dubbing was done, it's so natural, nothing of it's quality has been done before or since.
>> I haven't watched Iron Chef in quite a while but it was a groundbreaking show that shocked America and changed the direction of how cooking shows were presented. The idea of ditching the subtitles in favoring of sports style color commentary made a lot of sense and offered a lot of freedom in terms of scripting. Iron Chef changed everything and these days, we can barely remember how things were in the past.
>
influence of it in current cooking shows.
Bruce
Bruce
Cindy Hamilton
these days. It's challenging to find a show that demonstrates how to cook.
--
Cindy Hamilton
Ed P
watched it at all in more than five years.
dsi1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5RWz-dsPA0
Graham
No high drama and there's a sense of co-operation among the contestants.
Dave Smith
"reality" shows. That means that they go out of their way to find
flamboyant characters and they are a little hard to bear.
Bruce
how they cook, whether international food or specific ethnicities.
Bruce
totally fake. We haven't watched it for ten years.
Bruce
matters.
bruce bowser
Cindy Hamilton
in which the judges cook, but don't formally compete. A pity it has so
few episodes.
I watched a couple of episodes of British Bake-off, but I'm not that
interested in baking so it didn't grab me.
--
Cindy Hamilton
bruce bowser
Mike Duffy
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 2:08:39 AM UTC-8, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> Chopped After Hours [...] British Bake-off,
> Wow weee. I never saw any of those shows.
dsi1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DA3TmhKEMFvaWCe27