Kitchen ReDo-Floors
Goomba
ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently) and over the
range microwave oven/hood. I'm looking for a bottom freezer refrigerator
but we can live with the old one until I find the perfect appliance at
the best price. Lighting changes and flooring are still undecided.
I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting
older now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically
poor choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended
periods. I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood
and impact absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
jarring to your body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens,
are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it
might be fairly "green" as well as good cost.
The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
downstairs is hardwood.
Thanks for any input :)
Goomba
jmcquown
>
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
>
> Thanks for any input :)
> Goomba
I personally have no problem with vinyl, although the people on HGTV would
cringe if you suggested it! If you like wood you might consider bamboo.
Jill
Giusi
news:6dbeiuF...@mid.individual.net...
I have been blaming "the day after" backaches on my age, but lately I have
been hearing much younger peiople claim it is the tile or stone floors we
all have. Mind you, I don't experience it unless I have spent a 10 or 12
hour day working, so who knows?
If I were sure, then next kitchen I would use solid runner flooring, such as
is used in airports. I'd consider bamboo, but my cutting board seems as
hard as tile.
Bob Terwilliger
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
> was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
> concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting older
> now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically poor
> choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended periods.
> I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood and impact
> absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more jarring to your
> body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens, are they?? I'm
> also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it might be fairly
> "green" as well as good cost.
>
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
>
> Thanks for any input :)
I recently wrote here that I'm looking into getting eucalyptus or cork
flooring for my kitchen. Both are quite comfortable for long stretches of
standing, and don't need a huge amount of maintenance. However, tile or
linoleum would be much better for a mud room. Maybe you could have a hard
floor in your kitchen and put down rubber mats to stand on when you're
cooking; that's what many professional kitchens do.
As I see it, the problem is that a breakfast room and guest bathroom are
more "presentation" spaces, where the kitchen, mud room, and laundry room
are more "industrial" spaces. If it were *me*, I'd have the same hardwood in
the breakfast room as in the rest of the house, I'd have soft wood in the
kitchen, I'd have tile in the guest bedroom, and I'd have painted concrete
in the mud room and laundry room.
Bob
ChattyCathy
>
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it?
I have tile flooring in the kitchen (and most of the house). I like it. It
looks good, is pretty hard wearing and if you spill something on it it's
easy to clean up in two ticks. I haven't found it any harder on my
back/legs than vinyl or hard wood in the kitchen (and I think I'm a tad
older than you <grin>). But... if you don't have under-floor heating it can
be a bit cold in winter.
Another thing I will point out about tile floors tho' - be aware that if you
drop any heavy cook-ware etc. on it in the kitchen the tiles may crack :(
For instance, I have a marble mortar and pestle. I put the pestle down on
the counter a bit too close to the edge when I was using it one day and I
managed to 'bump' it, somehow. It subsequently "rolled off" the counter
onto the tiles before I could catch it... I now have a (hairline) crack in
two tiles, and I don't have any spares (the previous owners put the
flooring in and didn't leave any 'extras')... It's not *that* noticeable,
you have to look pretty closely - but *I* know it's there, and it annoys
the heck outta me. However, it will mean replacing the whole
kitchen/laundry floor to fix it because I cannot get the same
design/pattern anymore, I've looked - sigh. I'm just not up for that at the
moment. It's not just the expense, it's the inconvenience of having the
kitchen 'out of action' while it's being re-done. So, if you do go for
tile, may I suggest you get a few extras and keep them - just in case?
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy
Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...
Sheldon
I love my hardwood (Brazilian cherry) kitchen floor... I have the same
floor in a half bath and my laundry room too.. with the new space age
sealers and cleaning systems moisture is not a problem. Whichever
material make sure to have the floor installed full room/wall to wall,
*before* cabinets/appliances go in, most especially if you choose
tile.
Nancy Young
> Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen,
>> breakfast room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest
>> of the downstairs is hardwood.
> I personally have no problem with vinyl, although the people on HGTV
> would cringe if you suggested it!
They put down vinyl tile often.
nancy
jmcquown
I only see them rip it up and put down slate or something similar. I must
be watching the wrong shows! And stainless appliances, UGH. As in, UGLY.
Sorry, I just don't see the appeal.
Jill
Edwin Pawlowski
"Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6dbeiuF...@mid.individual.net...
> I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
> ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
> top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently)
What brand/model would that be?
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
> was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
> concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting older
> now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically poor
> choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended periods.
> I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood and impact
> absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more jarring to your
> body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens, are they?? I'm
> also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it might be fairly
> "green" as well as good cost.
We put sheet vinyl in our kitchen about 10 years ago. Cleans easily, no
seams, still looks good. It was the best bang for the buck at the time
since is was a "spruce up" rather than a re-do.
If cost was not a big consideration, I'd go with ceramic tile. We put down
Italian quarry tile in our last kitchen and loved it. Never used more than
a wet sponge mop to clean it and it always looked elegant. . It was a small
kitchen so it was affordable.
There are some wood products that may be worth checking out. It certainly
looks good. I'm not up on the latest so it may be good to visit the
flooring store for more information.
Nancy Young
> Nancy Young <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>> Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen,
>>>> breakfast room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The
>>>> rest of the downstairs is hardwood.
>>
>>> I personally have no problem with vinyl, although the people on HGTV
>>> would cringe if you suggested it!
>>
>> They put down vinyl tile often.
> I only see them rip it up and put down slate or something similar. I
> must be watching the wrong shows! And stainless appliances, UGH. As
> in, UGLY. Sorry, I just don't see the appeal.
I don't know what they think of it, they are putting in what sells.
People like it. It's not for me.
nancy
enigma
news:6dbeiuF...@mid.individual.net:
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how
> they love or hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had
> heated tile in the past. I was younger then so might have
> been less aware of problems, but am concerned with the
> "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting older now
> (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are
> ergodynamically poor choices down the road after standing
> in the kitchen for extended periods. I recall my mother
> explaining how good dance floors are wood and impact
> absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
> jarring to your body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical
> in kitchens, are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as
> I keep reading that it might be fairly "green" as well as
> good cost.
>
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the
> kitchen, breakfast room, mud room, laundry room and guest
> bathroom. The rest of the downstairs is hardwood.
i have ceramic tile. i HATE it! it's hard. it's ugly (ceramic
scratches fairly easily. we have a farm, & the side door
enters into the kitchen, so mud & sand are constantly tracked
in). it's noisy. it's freaking *cold*! it's really hard to
clean, which surprised me. i figured it'd be tougher than
vinyl & just sweep clean. wrong! it's almost as easy to
scratch as vinyl & the grout joints collect dirt & stain
really easily. i'm not sure exactly how old my ceramic floor
is, but the grout is cracking &/or falling out in a lot of
places (granted it's laid right over a wide pine floor with no
underlayment or levelling). did i say i HATE it? it's going to
be a pain in the butt to get rid of it too.
when i redo the kitchen i'll put in real linoleum. it's
comfortable, way warmer than tile, & easier to clean (no
joints, no cracks, no grout). then i'll get a Scooba ;)
BTW, if you find a bottom freezer fridge that *doesn't* have
a drawer freezer, let me know. those drawers are just plain
useless.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.
Wayne Boatwright
What color is your tile, Cathy? In a previous home in Ohio, we had an
almond color ceramic tile put down by the previous owner, with no spares on
hand. There were a couple of tiles that had hairline cracks and a couple
that had tiny chips in them which revealed the darker color below the
almond glaze. I bought a bottle of almond colored appliance touch up
paint. Working very quickly I used a tiny brush to force the paint into
the cracks and chips, quickly wiping all excess off the surface. They
damages were virtually invisible unless you were down on your knees looking
for them. Something to consider.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
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Cats must drag dirty socks up from the
basement in the middle of the night.
-------------------------------------------
Sarah
Goomba, if your stood on hard floors all day in a hospital you may not find
any difference or real problems when at home.
On the other hand, all day at work on hard floors, then having them at home
as well could be the straw that broke the camels back!
If I were you I'd go for tiles, and wear crocs when I felt the floor was
taking its tole!
Sarah
Wayne Boatwright
Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
'We're not making this up just so we
can take over the world!' - Brain
-------------------------------------------
Billy
<waynebo...@cox.net> wrote:
> I have black appliances.
So..what's your secret to keeping them spotless?
I have two black dishwashers on either side of the sink and they
always need maintainence.
Pete C.
Very simply, pick whatever looks best to you. Pretty much all materials
are just fine in kitchens these days, including wood.
When wood floors were finished with waxes and whatnot they didn't do
well in kitchens, but with modern polyurethane finishes they do fine
unless you are in the habit of keeping an inch of standing water in your
kitchen.
I have tile in my current kitchen, had vinyl in a previous one and
linoleum in one before that and all of them have been just fine.
As for "green", most everything buy vinyl is pretty "green". Wood and
bamboo are renewable, tile is natural materials, and linoleum is mostly
sawdust and linseed oil.
ChattyCathy
>
> What color is your tile, Cathy? In a previous home in Ohio, we had an
> almond color ceramic tile put down by the previous owner, with no spares
> on
> hand. There were a couple of tiles that had hairline cracks and a couple
> that had tiny chips in them which revealed the darker color below the
> almond glaze. I bought a bottle of almond colored appliance touch up
> paint. Working very quickly I used a tiny brush to force the paint into
> the cracks and chips, quickly wiping all excess off the surface. They
> damages were virtually invisible unless you were down on your knees
> looking
> for them. Something to consider.
>
Wayne,
Our tiles in the kitchen/laundry have a sort of very light 'peachy'
background color with patches/swirls(?) of various shades of brown in them.
We did fill in the crack with some grouting (if that's what it's called?)
that we tried to make the same color as the main part of the tile with some
coloring - but like I said it still shows if you look closely. Irritates
the cr*p outta me, because the previous owners left a whole bunch of other
useless stuff behind in the yard and they only picked up some of it - sigh.
A couple of spare tiles would have been a god-send, but I never thought to
ask if they had any before they left... silly me.
Felice
> Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
>> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
>> downstairs is hardwood.
>>
>> Thanks for any input :)
>> Goomba
I've seen a lot of kitchen floors in my day:
The real quarry tile was absolutely gorgeous, and I didn't find it hard on
the legs, but anything we dropped on it was history.
The vinyl was easy to care for but I just didn't like the plastic look.
The Pergo was a winner, partly because it looked great but also because I
could choose a color to match the carpet in an adjoining sitting area.
My Senior Daughter has real wood, which is gorgeous and doesn't seem to show
wear and tear.
Given my druthers, especially if color is a big factor, I'd go for Pergo.
Felice
Janet Bostwick
I don't have any recommendations, just personal observations. We have tile
in our kitchen and we bought a whole box of extras. The problem for us
isn't matching broken tiles, but matching the grout. Grout colors are
discontinuted after several years and even if you are able to get the
correct grout, the batch color may be different than what you have
installed. I don't find the tile any more hard to stand on than anything
else and it is extremely easy to clean. It doesn't show wear.
A friend had a hardwood floor installed in her kitchen (I can't remember for
sure, maybe 7-8 years ago). I know that they had the hard duty finish
applied to it. In the spots where she usually stands to prep food, there is
an ugly grey worn spot. This isn't water spillage, it is simply worn
through the finish. The spot began to be noticeable about 18 months ago and
now it can't be missed.
Janet
Steve Pope
>As for "green", most everything buy vinyl is pretty "green". Wood and
>bamboo are renewable, tile is natural materials, and linoleum is mostly
>sawdust and linseed oil.
Probably "greenest" is a heavy tile over a subfloor that is
insulated below. This will create thermal mass and keep
temperatures even day and night. The greenest house is
a well-insulated one with thermal mass within the insulated
space.
Tile might be considered hard and uncomfortable. But as you
get older and your joints start to become deficient, it
is likely you will trend towards wearing shoes indoors,
especially when working in the kitchen, and then the
hardness of the floor material is less relevant to comfort.
(My biomechanics guy admonished me "don't walk around the
house barefoot!" and damned if he isn't absolutely correct,
in my case.)
Steve
ko...@letscook.com
wrote:
snip to my lou
>
>I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
>hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
>was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
>concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting
>older now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically
>poor choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended
>periods. I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood
>and impact absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
>jarring to your body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens,
>are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it
>might be fairly "green" as well as good cost.
>
>The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
>room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
>downstairs is hardwood.
>
>Thanks for any input :)
>Goomba
My daughter has 12" tile floors and I always need to wear shoes or
thick flip flops when working in her kitchen, my feet and legs get too
tired if I don't. I suppose you could get some nice cushy floor mats
in your work area though if you fine some tile you just love.
koko
--
There is no love more sincere than the love of food.
George Bernard Shaw
www.kokoscorner.typepad.com
updated 6/25
Wayne Boatwright
A 3:2 mixture of water and white vinegar. Wash down with a saturated but
wrung out rag, followed by a drying/buffing with a dry soft cloth.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
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-------------------------------------------
Real men don't set for stun.
-------------------------------------------
Wayne Boatwright
> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@cox.net>
> news:Xns9AD33C2597654wa...@69.28.186.120: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 04:51:35a, ChattyCathy told us...
>>
>>> Goomba wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love
>>>> or hate it?
>>>
>>> I have tile flooring in the kitchen (and most of the house). I like
>>> it. It looks good, is pretty hard wearing and if you spill something
>>> on it it's easy to clean up in two ticks. I haven't found it any
>>> harder on my back/legs than vinyl or hard wood in the kitchen (and I
>>> think I'm a tad older than you <grin>). But... if you don't have
>>> under-floor heating it can be a bit cold in winter.
>>>
>>> Another thing I will point out about tile floors tho' - be aware that
>>> if you drop any heavy cook-ware etc. on it in the kitchen the tiles
>>> may crack :(
>
> <snip for space>
>
> Our porcelain is so patterned (dark) that I don't think you could tell if
> there was a crack in it or not. We'll see. This is my first experience
> with a tile floor. We have a couple of boxes of "extras" if we need to
> make repairs. Our old floor was linoleum and the kitchen floors in the
> condos were parquet. It'll be interesting to see what happens as time
> wears on.
>
>>
>> What color is your tile, Cathy? In a previous home in Ohio, we had an
>> almond color ceramic tile put down by the previous owner, with no
>> spares on hand. There were a couple of tiles that had hairline cracks
>> and a couple that had tiny chips in them which revealed the darker
>> color below the almond glaze. I bought a bottle of almond colored
>> appliance touch up paint. Working very quickly I used a tiny brush to
>> force the paint into the cracks and chips, quickly wiping all excess
>> off the surface. They damages were virtually invisible unless you
>> were down on your knees looking for them. Something to consider.
>
> I am "told" that the porcelain we bought is harder than traditional
> ceramic tile. My brother also has porcelain in his kitchen. He loves
> it. He did say that anything you drop on the floor will most likely get
> broken.
>
> Michael
>
>
Yes, porcelain is harder than ceramic. Also, with many porcelain tiles,
the color runs throughout the tile. It should not show scratches easily.
--
Wayne Boatwright
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Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
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'Bad knee, gotta run.' --Pat Buchanan
to his draft board.
-------------------------------------------
Wayne Boatwright
> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@cox.net>
> news:Xns9AD33E9EFA97Awa...@69.28.186.120: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
>> mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>
> A lot of people like SS appliances. I don't think it's for us either. We
> chose white. We might have made a mistake with the refrigerator. It's a
> pretty tight squeeze in the space we have it in.
>
> Michael
I like white as well, but have had far too many kitchens with white
appliances over my lifetime. It was definitely time for a change. :-)
--
Wayne Boatwright
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Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
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Fortunately, the second-to-last bug
has been fixed.
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Sheldon
>
> Pretty much all materials are just fine in kitchens these days,
> including wood.
>
> When wood floors were finished with waxes and whatnot they
> didn't do well in kitchens, but with modern polyurethane finishes
> they do fine unless you are in the habit of keeping an inch of
> standing water in your kitchen.
Years ago woods for flooring were very limited in variety and not of
very high quality, mostly local woods were used, whatever grew in
nearby forests. Today woods for flooring are available from all over
the world and are specially grown for exceptionally appealing grain
patterns, density, and clear of imperfections. Installation systems
used today are far superior for preciseness and longivety. Modern
wood finishing substances are far different as well, and are water
based so there is no odor, and curing time is fast so many coats can
be applied with little inconvenience.
Wood floors can be easily and inexpensively be refinished many times
and even the wood itself can be changed to a darker or lighter hue...
so once installed the typical wood floor will last several
generations. I strongly recommend no one waste their money on
composite/laminate wood flooring, it looks fake because it is fake,
and can't be refinished... either get real wood flooring or move on to
something else.
The one thing to keep in mind however is a proper modern installation
is not for the do it yourselfer, special training and equipment is
necessary... don't even think about renting a floor sander, yoiu'll
only ruin your floor... a modern flooring sander is laser controlled
for depth and levelness, and produces no dust, and requires great
skill, such a sander costs better than $50,000.
If anyone decides on wood flooring I strongly recommend finding an
installer with proper credentials:
http://www.woodfloors.org/consumer
And learn how to properly care for your wood floor:
http://www.bona.com/global/?sr=us
Todays wood flooring is not your father's gym floor.
Every room in my house had hardwood flooring except the kitchen area,
it had ugly green vinyl tiles. I called the fellow who installed the
original wood flooring, he had retired but his son had taken over so
he did the new floor.
Installation well underway:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2rf80m9.jpg
Turned out lovely:
http://i32.tinypic.com/20b0k14.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2lo5bf6.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/2vv2erc.jpg
It's been five years now and I have absolutely no regrets.
Wayne Boatwright
Well, sorry. It was just a thought. :-(
--
Wayne Boatwright
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Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
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Pete C.
Wood floors can be readily refinished, and if you act a bit more
proactively, a very light sanding and a fresh coat of poly every few
years will keep it from ever getting to the bloody obvious wear stage.
Goomba
> I have been blaming "the day after" backaches on my age, but lately I have
> been hearing much younger peiople claim it is the tile or stone floors we
> all have. Mind you, I don't experience it unless I have spent a 10 or 12
> hour day working, so who knows?
yeah, that's exactly what I'd like to avoid or protect against. I get
enough wear and tear on my back and legs at work that I'd like to pamper
them a bit more at home.
Charlotte L. Blackmer
Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
>ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
>top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently) and over the
>range microwave oven/hood. I'm looking for a bottom freezer refrigerator
>but we can live with the old one until I find the perfect appliance at
>the best price. Lighting changes and flooring are still undecided.
>
>I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
>hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
>was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
>concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting
>older now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically
>poor choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended
>periods. I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood
>and impact absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
>jarring to your body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens,
>are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it
>might be fairly "green" as well as good cost.
>
>The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
>room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
>downstairs is hardwood.
>
>Thanks for any input :)
>Goomba
Goomba,
I have Marmoleum ("original" linoleum, made with linseed oil) in my
kitchen and utility room, on recommendation of my designer - I have hw
floors in the living room (adjacent) and she recommended against hw in the
kitchen because it might be hard to match (and it was a good visual
change).
It comes in marbled/"sponged" colors and will last forever. Foot-feel is
comparable to modern "linoleum" (vinyl) although it's more pleasant
to walk on barefoot. If you get someone skilled in installation
(we have a local floor shop where there is a floor artist in residence
... he's done an "oriental carpet" in Marmoleum) you can get some nice
designs. My kitchen is pretty basic - burgundy plum edge/backsplash,
white border, sage/celadon green body (that has black, white, and gray
"sponge" patterns).
It would be totally appropriate for all the rooms you mention. Like I
said, it will last forever.
Charlotte
--
Goomba
> I have tile flooring in the kitchen (and most of the house). I like it. It
> looks good, is pretty hard wearing and if you spill something on it it's
> easy to clean up in two ticks. I haven't found it any harder on my
> back/legs than vinyl or hard wood in the kitchen (and I think I'm a tad
> older than you <grin>). But... if you don't have under-floor heating it can
> be a bit cold in winter.
I loved our under floor heating system in both our apartments in
Germany. It was so cozy in the winter! And makes sense as heat rises.
> ...I now have a (hairline) crack in
> two tiles, and I don't have any spares (the previous owners put the
> flooring in and didn't leave any 'extras')... It's not *that* noticeable,
> you have to look pretty closely - but *I* know it's there, and it annoys
> the heck outta me. However, it will mean replacing the whole
> kitchen/laundry floor to fix it because I cannot get the same
> design/pattern anymore, I've looked - sigh. I'm just not up for that at the
> moment. It's not just the expense, it's the inconvenience of having the
> kitchen 'out of action' while it's being re-done. So, if you do go for
> tile, may I suggest you get a few extras and keep them - just in case?
Excellent advice!
Edwin Pawlowski
"Wayne Boatwright" <waynebo...@cox.net> wrote in message
> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
> mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright
That industrial look is what made them attractive to a lot of people.
Industrial look means quality and good performance right? That industrial
look is pure marketing genius. We looked at a Jenn Air range that was
selling for $3900. It looked as though they took a cheap range and just put
a stainless steel shell over it and jacked up the price.
Our new range is stainless and black. The MW above it is too. I don't like
a black refrigerator though, just too much black mass for my tastes.
I'll take SS over avocado, coppertone, harvest gold and turquoise though. I
do like white!
Goomba
> I love my hardwood (Brazilian cherry) kitchen floor... I have the same
> floor in a half bath and my laundry room too.. with the new space age
> sealers and cleaning systems moisture is not a problem. Whichever
> material make sure to have the floor installed full room/wall to wall,
> *before* cabinets/appliances go in, most especially if you choose
> tile.
>
Hmmmmmm...I could have sworn our installer said to do the cabinets first
to save money? He didn't recommend putting costly flooring under
appliances but he'd be shimming up the cabinets a bit higher to
compensate for the height of tile if we used it and it would avoid the
appliances being a skosh lower than the floor.
ChattyCathy
> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 08:28:00a, ChattyCathy told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What color is your tile, Cathy? In a previous home in Ohio, we had an
>>> almond color ceramic tile put down by the previous owner, with no
>>> spares on hand. There were a couple of tiles that had hairline cracks
>>> and a couple that had tiny chips in them which revealed the darker
>>> color below the almond glaze. I bought a bottle of almond colored
>>> appliance touch up paint. Working very quickly I used a tiny brush to
>>> force the paint into the cracks and chips, quickly wiping all excess
>>> off the surface. They damages were virtually invisible unless you were
>>> down on your knees looking for them. Something to consider.
>>>
>>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> Our tiles in the kitchen/laundry have a sort of very light 'peachy'
>> background color with patches/swirls(?) of various shades of brown in
>> them. We did fill in the crack with some grouting (if that's what it's
>> called?) that we tried to make the same color as the main part of the
>> tile with some coloring - but like I said it still shows if you look
>> closely. Irritates the cr*p outta me, because the previous owners left a
>> whole bunch of other useless stuff behind in the yard and they only
>> picked up some of it - sigh. A couple of spare tiles would have been a
>> god-send, but I never thought to ask if they had any before they left...
>> silly me.
>
> Well, sorry. It was just a thought. :-(
>
Oops. I didn't mean to sound rude or offend you, but we also had the same
idea and it didn't quite come off the way we hoped...which was a real
bummer. Maybe if the tiles were a 'solid color' it would have been just
fine. I could kick myself for not being more careful, but as they say, this
kinda sh*t happens, so I just wanted to warn Goomba to keep spares if she
goes that route ;-)
Gloria P
> I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
> ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
> top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently) and over the
> range microwave oven/hood. I'm looking for a bottom freezer refrigerator
> but we can live with the old one until I find the perfect appliance at
> the best price. Lighting changes and flooring are still undecided.
>
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
>
> Thanks for any input :)
I saw an interesting floor in an old Denver house remodel a few weeks
ago. The kitchen was "U" shaped with light Craftsman cabinets and open
to much of the first floor. The area along the cabinets was wood
floored, matching the rest of the house, for about 36 inches outward and
the middle of the floor (where you'd be less likely to drop things) was
12 or 14 inch tiles of the same granite as the solid countertop, maybe
5x5 or 6x6 rows of tiles. It was very pretty.
Tile is cold and unforgiving. I remember seeing a friend's remodel
about a year after and noting that most of the ceramic tiles in front of
the fridge were cracked from having things dropped on them.
We currently have oak flooring in all the public rooms of the house and
have had it refinished about every 10 years because of wear. The
kitchen floor gets washed much more often than the rest because I'm a
messy cook, I guess.
:-(
gloria p
Wayne Boatwright
>
> "Wayne Boatwright" <waynebo...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
>> mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>>
>> --
>> Wayne Boatwright
>
> That industrial look is what made them attractive to a lot of people.
> Industrial look means quality and good performance right? That
> industrial look is pure marketing genius. We looked at a Jenn Air range
> that was selling for $3900. It looked as though they took a cheap range
> and just put a stainless steel shell over it and jacked up the price.
And good marketing, especially from kitchen designers.
> Our new range is stainless and black. The MW above it is too. I don't
> like a black refrigerator though, just too much black mass for my
> tastes.
I like your range a lot! Our refrigerator has a black cabinet, but the
doors are actually covered in brushed aluminum with a thick acrylic
coating. Looks pretty much like SS, but without the effort of upkeep. It
also has a somewhat "softer" look to it.
> I'll take SS over avocado, coppertone, harvest gold and turquoise
> though. I do like white!
Agreed on the colors. I chose black because I had lived with decades of
white. The other issue with white is that the plastic parts often turn
yellow with use and age. No amount of cleaning seems to resolve that
problem.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Infantry Rule #2: Never forget that
your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.
-------------------------------------------
Sheldon
Pergo is not wood, it's also plastic and looks like plastic, every
section is identical.
Real wood can be stained/bleached to any color, plus there are
hundreds of types of wood.
Pergo actually costs more than real wood, but people buy Pergo and its
ilk because it's faster (instant flooring). One major problem with
laminated flooring (Pergo) is unless your subfloor is perfect your new
Pergo floor will look like crap, every imperfection will not only
transfer but will be magnified. Real wood flooring is 3/4" thick, it
hides all small imperfections and larger ones can easily be rough
filled with no concern to small gaps. With Pergo, and lino, in most
caes a new subfloor is required (rip out the old and install new), can
easily double the cost... so yet another reason I went with real
wood... my old vinyl floor had lots of imperfections, so new vinyl
would have cost twice my wood floor. And ceramic required a "mud"
floor, costs much more than doubles the cost. I had ceramic tile in
my last house, after a few months I began to hate it... every tile is
the same so it's boring, and it's the same as walking on concrete
sidewalk, unless you wear good street shoes indoors it's very hard on
your back. To me ceramic tile has zero character, it's the fast food
flooring look.
Goomba
> "Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:6dbeiuF...@mid.individual.net...
>> I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
>> ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
>> top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently)
>
GE's Profile PGB910SEM, a five burner gas range with continuous grates,
this very cool looking 5th "bridge" burner (which comes with a removable
griddle) which should be great for some of our larger pans that we put
over two burners now. We ordered it from Sears and got a good holiday
sale price.
> There are some wood products that may be worth checking out. It certainly
> looks good. I'm not up on the latest so it may be good to visit the
> flooring store for more information.
I am leaning towards vinyl or linoleum, while my husband wants tile.
Wood appeals to me because the space is so large and public, yet also
encompasses many smaller rooms too. I'm just worried about the water
issues. Perhaps the mud room, laundry room and bathroom can be vinyl and
the kitchen and breakfast room wood? It would be important to have a
smooth, pleasant transition.
Wayne Boatwright
> That's an interesting point. I hadn't ever though about the
> hardness or give of a floor causing an ache but when you think about
> ti then it most probably does.
>
These mats are very comfortable over a tile floor:
http://www.clicknclean.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?
idcategory=&idproduct=102
or
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I inherited my curiosity from my cat.
Why do you ask?
-------------------------------------------
Goomba
> BTW, if you find a bottom freezer fridge that *doesn't* have
> a drawer freezer, let me know. those drawers are just plain
> useless.
> lee
>
do you mean the entire bottom section being a pull out drawer, or the
inner wire/plastic pull out drawer bins?
I've seen bottom freezers that have swing doors, just like a regular
refrigerator. I want the exterior pull out drawer style... and it MUST
have an ice maker, but I'm not looking for one of those ice and water
dispensers. I can pull the drawer open for ice and save a bundle, as
well as not lose space to the dispenser workings.
Wayne Boatwright
> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 14:09:21, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 05:37:30a, Nancy Young told us...
>>
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>> Nancy Young <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen,
>>>>>>> breakfast room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom.
>>>>>>> The rest of the downstairs is hardwood.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally have no problem with vinyl, although the people on
>>>>>> HGTV would cringe if you suggested it!
>>>>>
>>>>> They put down vinyl tile often.
>>>
>>>> I only see them rip it up and put down slate or something
>>>> similar. I must be watching the wrong shows! And stainless
>>>> appliances, UGH. As in, UGLY. Sorry, I just don't see the appeal.
>>>
>>> I don't know what they think of it, they are putting in what
>>> sells. People like it. It's not for me.
>>>
>>> nancy
>>>
>>
>> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not
>> to mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>>
>
> I like black too but I would have thought black was hard work.
>
> Wouldn't the smallest fingerprint on a black surface get picked out
> by the light and stand out? Also any drying marks from wiping a
> black surface with a damp cloth.
>
It's not that hard, really. I wipe them down with a solution of water and
white vinegar, followed by a dry soft cloth to dry and buff. It glistens.
SS is ar more work.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
What this country needs is a good
five-cent microcomputer.
-------------------------------------------
Wayne Boatwright
You're never rude and could never offend me, Cathy. It would definitely be
hard to achieve with the coloration of the tiles you have. Mine were a
solid color. Hey, we all have accidents...it happens. It's less likely to
happen with porcelain tiles than with ceramic tiles, as the porcelain is
much harder.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Wayne Boatwright
> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 16:58:57, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 06:51:25a, Billy told us...
>>
>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:09:21 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
>>> <waynebo...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have black appliances.
>>>
>>> So..what's your secret to keeping them spotless?
>>> I have two black dishwashers on either side of the sink and they
>>> always need maintainence.
>>
>> A 3:2 mixture of water and white vinegar. Wash down with a
>> saturated but wrung out rag, followed by a drying/buffing with a
>> dry soft cloth.
>>
>
> I was going to guess you would say a weak solution of ammonia. I can't
> stand the stuff. It's horrible and try never to use it. However I keep
> seeing ammonia recommended as a cleaning agent even nowadays.
>
Ammonia is a very good cleaning product, but your right about the odor. In
fact, it can actually damage your lung tissue. I seldom use, and then it's
usually outside. The other problem with ammonia is that it can leave
streaks. Vinegar generally never streaks.
ChattyCathy
>
> i have ceramic tile. i HATE it! it's hard. it's ugly (ceramic
> scratches fairly easily. we have a farm, & the side door
> enters into the kitchen, so mud & sand are constantly tracked
> in). it's noisy. it's freaking *cold*! it's really hard to
> clean, which surprised me. i figured it'd be tougher than
> vinyl & just sweep clean. wrong! it's almost as easy to
> scratch as vinyl & the grout joints collect dirt & stain
> really easily. i'm not sure exactly how old my ceramic floor
> is, but the grout is cracking &/or falling out in a lot of
> places (granted it's laid right over a wide pine floor with no
> underlayment or levelling). did i say i HATE it? it's going to
> be a pain in the butt to get rid of it too.
> when i redo the kitchen i'll put in real linoleum. it's
> comfortable, way warmer than tile, & easier to clean (no
> joints, no cracks, no grout). then i'll get a Scooba ;)
Heh. I suppose there are tiles and tiles. We also stay on a small holding
(it's not big enough to be called a farm here in RSA), with mud etc.
trailed in all the time, (not to mention some chicken poo, if Dad forgets
to change his shoes <grin>). I find my tiles very easy to keep clean, and I
haven't seen any scratches. (Just the crack I caused when I wasn't being
careful enough when I had my 'accident' and the pestle fell on them). We
just use one of those 'squeeze mop' thingies with some water and a bit of
household detergent (one of the ones that kills 'germs'). I haven't noticed
much dirt build up in the grouting, nor has it come out and there are no
worn patches in the tiles themselves. We've been here 5 years already - and
I have no idea when the previous owners put them in - judging by the
designs and/or size, probably a good few years before that.
IME, linoleum scratches very easily. My Mom had it in her kitchen and dining
room when I was a child, and our big Alsatian used to sneak in to the
dining room to sleep under the table - and her claws left awful marks. At
the first opportunity Mom put in tiles. I suppose as long you don't allow
your dogs on it, it would be fine. Mind you that was years and years ago -
probably the linoleum they make these days is better quality...
Sheldon
> ChattyCathy wrote:
> >
> > So, if you do go for tile, may I suggest you get a few extras
> and keep them - just in case?
>
> Excellent advice!
No extra brain cells needed for that one... that's true of any
flooring, even with carpeting having an exra piece can repair a stain
or burn. In fact with any product it's advisable to have some extra,
like paints, fabrics, even fence slats and house siding and roofing
shingles... anyone who knits/sews knows to save some extra of the same
lot number... that's why better garments have extra buttons sewn into
a hidden spot.
Becca
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
>
> Thanks for any input :)
> Goomba
We bought this house, had the carpet removed and replaced it with
hardwood floors. We did this throughout the entire house. We have only
been here one year, and we have not experienced any problems. I was
concerned about having problems the kitchen and the bathrooms, too.
The wood floors do not seem as "hard" on my feet as the floors I had at
work. Good luck with your decision.
Becca
Goomba
> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@cox.net>
> news:Xns9AD33E9EFA97Awa...@69.28.186.120: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
>> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
>> mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>
> chose white. We might have made a mistake with the refrigerator. It's a
> pretty tight squeeze in the space we have it in.
>
> Michael
I was actually looking for this burnished copper I recently saw on
appliances in a magazine, but no one has it (yet!?) around here. I just
wanted something different. Every color has its pros and cons. Sadly
stainless steel jacks up the price. Is it because it is currently
fashionable or is it the actual material cost itself?
We went with Stainless because hubby wanted it. Oddly I find I acquiesce
a lot to him on his preferences in this re-do because he's being so
cheerful about this whole expensive project. Our cabinet pulls are also
stainless "cup" style because it reminds me of the old butler's pantry
functional look which I love.
Goomba
> The Pergo was a winner, partly because it looked great but also because I
> could choose a color to match the carpet in an adjoining sitting area.
>
> My Senior Daughter has real wood, which is gorgeous and doesn't seem to show
> wear and tear.
>
> Given my druthers, especially if color is a big factor, I'd go for Pergo.
>
> Felice
>
I've heard that Pergo dents easily though? Table and chair legs dig in
or something? Our kitchen chairs are wonderful rolling things that we
hope to keep a long time (they're already almost 20 years old!) because
I had them reupholstered and love.
Wayne Boatwright
> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@cox.net>
>> news:Xns9AD33E9EFA97Awa...@69.28.186.120: in
>> rec.food.cooking
>>
>>> Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
>>> mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>>
>> A lot of people like SS appliances. I don't think it's for us either.
We
>> chose white. We might have made a mistake with the refrigerator. It's a
>> pretty tight squeeze in the space we have it in.
>>
>> Michael
>
> I was actually looking for this burnished copper I recently saw on
> appliances in a magazine, but no one has it (yet!?) around here. I just
> wanted something different. Every color has its pros and cons. Sadly
> stainless steel jacks up the price. Is it because it is currently
> fashionable or is it the actual material cost itself?
It's probably both. I can just imagine what the cost of the burnished
copper would be. Copper is far more expensive a metal than SS.
> We went with Stainless because hubby wanted it. Oddly I find I acquiesce
> a lot to him on his preferences in this re-do because he's being so
> cheerful about this whole expensive project. Our cabinet pulls are also
> stainless "cup" style because it reminds me of the old butler's pantry
> functional look which I love.
>
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
It's as bad as you think and they are
out to get you.
-------------------------------------------
Sheldon
To save HIM money. Materials are cheap compared with labor and the
tilers are there anyway... any contractor tells you that BS is a
cheat... if you let him shim over bare subfloor or tile up to cabinets
you will end up with a very unworkmanship like job. Make sure they
tile under appliances and inside any closets too... and remove the
molding and then put it back after tiling to the wall. He only has to
race to the bank with your check before you realize what a dummy you
are. But hey, you believe who you like.
Steve Pope
>On Sun 06 Jul 2008 16:49:34, Steve Pope wrote:
>> (My biomechanics guy admonished me "don't walk around the
>> house barefoot!" and damned if he isn't absolutely correct,
>> in my case.)
>I would guess that walking barefoot upsets the strike of the foot as
>well as shifting the body backwards when standing on accout of the
>missing heel. Right?
>To say nothing of the extra impact you get from no cushioning by a
>shoes.
It all depends on the individual. In my case, wearing shoes
(of the right sort) reduces motion at the joint that is
not functioning normally. It also reduces the chances of
re-injury. It's a good deal all around.
Steve
Bill Gates
waynebo...@cox.net says...
I am a philistine and like white. Nice and practical. Well, sort of!
ChattyCathy
Fair enough - if you have had the flooring or carpeting put in yourself. In
my case the flooring was in situ, and my biggest mistake was forgetting to
ask the previous owners if they had any spares.
Another thing. If you do the work yourself and/or buy the flooring/materials
yourself, you usually have a few spares, and you get to keep them by
default. However, IME, if one has contractors in to do the whole job,
unless you specifically ask them, they hot-foot it out there with anything
that's left over - using the excuse that they are 'cleaning up' after the
job. Obviously, we do as much DIY as we can, because of that.
Gloria P
>
> A friend had a hardwood floor installed in her kitchen (I can't remember for
> sure, maybe 7-8 years ago). I know that they had the hard duty finish
> applied to it. In the spots where she usually stands to prep food, there is
> an ugly grey worn spot. This isn't water spillage, it is simply worn
> through the finish. The spot began to be noticeable about 18 months ago and
> now it can't be missed.
> Janet
>
>
That's why I have small rugs in front of the sink and stove since we had
our oak floors refinished about 10 years ago. Those were the only spots
that really showed wear. I have two sets of rugs and alternate when one
set goes into the washer when they show spots. The floor underneath is
still in very good condition. Once the finish has worn down to the wood
refinishing is the only solution.
gloria p
Goomba
>
> Installation well underway:
> http://i28.tinypic.com/2rf80m9.jpg
>
> Turned out lovely:
> http://i32.tinypic.com/20b0k14.jpg
>
> http://i25.tinypic.com/2lo5bf6.jpg
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/2vv2erc.jpg
>
> It's been five years now and I have absolutely no regrets.
>
Those are GORGEOUS floors, Shel.
What do you mop them with?
What is the long thin "rod" looking thing next to the kitchen faucet.
The faucet appears to have the built in sprayer in the faucet itself, so
I can't figure out that little rod?
Chris Marksberry
"Becca" <becca...@hal-pc.organ> wrote in message
news:6dcbebF...@mid.individual.net...
Becca,
You live in Louisiana right? Like others have written I don't care for the
Pergo stuff. I'd like to put real hardwood in the kitchen and maybe dining
room. So it's feasible? Currently we have ceramic tile.
Chris
Sheldon
>
> A friend had a hardwood floor installed in her kitchen (I can't remember for
> sure, maybe 7-8 years ago). �I know that they had the hard duty finish
> applied to it. �In the spots where she usually stands to prep food, there is
> an ugly grey worn spot. �This isn't water spillage, it is simply worn
> through the finish. �The spot began to be noticeable about 18 months ago and
> now it can't be missed.
That will occur with any flooring. Your friend obviously doesn't
believe in floor mats or cleaning her floor... even with floor mats if
sand/grit is permitted to accumulate it will erode the floor. My wood
floor is five years old and you'd need to look very hard to find even
a very small scratch/blemish... and in fact the two that exist are not
anywhere near work stations, both are from dropped food tins, would
likely have cracked tile or cut vinyl. Both were my own fault for
leaving the tins at the edge of the counter when I know that two of my
cats think it's great fun to knock things to the floor. Those dents
are practically invisable, only I know they're there... you kinda have
to feel them as you can't see them unless you get down on the floor
with a flashlight... in summer when there's a bit more humidity the
wood swells and they disappear completely. I can have them removed
but it doesn't pay to have the floor installer come for ten minutes
work (he has a machine that sucks dents out and "puffs" the area with
floor finish.
I use floor mats, mostly because they protect the floor from grease
spatter in front of the stove, they are easy on the feet, and just
look nice.
I don't worry about blemishes, with age I've acquired plenty myself.
sf
wrote:
>I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
>hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
>was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
>concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting
>older now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically
>poor choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended
>periods. I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood
>and impact absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
>jarring to your body.
I hate tile to begin with, so I'd never consider it... but we've lived
next door to our neighbors for 30 years and she did it at one time.
I'd say she was in her early 60's at the time. She took it out for
all the reasons you stated. It was hard standing on it, every little
thing she dropped broke (and IMO, it would be hard to clean too - I
HATE grout).
>Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens,
>are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it
>might be fairly "green" as well as good cost.
I'm still unclear why you're not considering bamboo.
--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.
Mae West
sf
wrote:
>I don't know what they think of it, they are putting in what sells.
>People like it. It's not for me.
The corners of vinyl tile tends to lift easily, but it's a quick
facelift. If they put down vinyl tile in kitchens or baths, it's
usually on the show where they're getting the house ready to be sold
and money ($2,000) is running out.
Slate or anything that's expensive is on the shows where the house
owner has a big budget for them to work with. Just go to the web site
and look. You can give them a huge budget to work, with if you've got
the money. I watched one show where they moved the site of a swimming
pool (dug out the old one and put in a brand new one) in the midst of
a complete back yard redo. That was a real jaw dropper.
sf
wrote:
>We might have made a mistake with the refrigerator. It's a
>pretty tight squeeze in the space we have it in.
I take it you didn't go with french doors.
sf
wrote:
>Is it because it is currently
>fashionable or is it the actual material cost itself?
It's expensive because it's the fashion now. If white or black were
what people were willing to pay top dollar for, they'd be the most
expensive.
Christine Dabney
wrote:
>Giusi wrote:
>
>> I have been blaming "the day after" backaches on my age, but lately I have
>> been hearing much younger peiople claim it is the tile or stone floors we
>> all have. Mind you, I don't experience it unless I have spent a 10 or 12
>> hour day working, so who knows?
>
>yeah, that's exactly what I'd like to avoid or protect against. I get
>enough wear and tear on my back and legs at work that I'd like to pamper
>them a bit more at home.
I have been reading that cork is very good for comfort. Seems to be
the rage in professional cooking circles...
Christine
Steve Pope
> Linoleum IS green AND warm AND clean AND very comfy underfoot AND
>totally waterproof but not slippy AND kind to dropped dishes and you
>can get a huge range of colours, patterns etc. It's very. very
>hardwearing, far superior to vinyl. We laid and fitted sheet linoleum
>in a bathroom and as a pretty skilled DIY pair, I can tell you we will
>never DIY that job again., at least, not unless I want grounds for
>divorce . If a large pot of money comes my way, I would love to get the
>entire kitchen laid with linoleum..by someone else.
It's a little more expensive than vinyl, with fewer choices
of colors/patterns, but the contractors who install vinyl
do linoleum as well. They like it, in fact, since they are
so bored from installing vinyl on every job they like doing
linoleum as a change of pace.
You have to keep it waxed, forever. It should last about 200
years. The highest grades of vinyl can last 25 to 40 years in
a kitchen, cheap grade 10 years or less. Over the long term
linoleum will save you money.
Steve
Steve Pope
>I have been reading that cork is very good for comfort. Seems to be
>the rage in professional cooking circles...
Now that CAN'T be green.
Steve
sf
<virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
>I'd have soft wood in the kitchen
"Soft" wood, like pine? That's a no. Ever had pine furniture? It
dings easily.
Wayne Boatwright
Wrong. Cork is a naturallly sustainable resource.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Ultimate office automation: Networked
coffee machines!
-------------------------------------------
Dave Smith
> I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
> ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
> top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently) and over the
> range microwave oven/hood. I'm looking for a bottom freezer refrigerator
> but we can live with the old one until I find the perfect appliance at
> the best price. Lighting changes and flooring are still undecided.
>
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
> was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
> concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting
> older now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically
> poor choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended
> periods. I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood
> and impact absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more
> jarring to your body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens,
> are they?? I'm also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it
> might be fairly "green" as well as good cost.
>
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
I like my ceramic tile kitchen floor. It is very easy to clean. Just add a
little dish detergent and vinegar to some water, mop it. The only problem is
that our tile is eggshell and it shows all the dirt. Just be especially
careful about dropping things on it, because the tile is very unforgiving.
Wayne Boatwright
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 03:13:43 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
>
>>I'd have soft wood in the kitchen
>
> "Soft" wood, like pine? That's a no. Ever had pine furniture? It
> dings easily.
But it's easily restained and the "dings" add to a nicely distressed look.
:-)
ChattyCathy
> You're never rude and could never offend me, Cathy.
:)
> It would definitely
> be
> hard to achieve with the coloration of the tiles you have. Mine were a
> solid color. Hey, we all have accidents...it happens. It's less likely
> to happen with porcelain tiles than with ceramic tiles, as the porcelain
> is much harder.
>
Yup. But that damn pestle... it's heavy marble; it must have 'hit just the
right spot' - dammit. Murphy's Law, I suppose. I've dropped other things on
the same flooring with no ill effects to the flooring... But gawd - don't
drop a drinking glass on it, the shards go *everywhere* - or any crockery
for that matter...
ChattyCathy
> On Sun 06 Jul 2008 11:11:11a, told us...
>
>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 03:13:43 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
>> <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
>>
>>>I'd have soft wood in the kitchen
>>
>> "Soft" wood, like pine? That's a no. Ever had pine furniture? It
>> dings easily.
>
> But it's easily restained and the "dings" add to a nicely distressed look.
> :-)
>
>
ROFL. 'a nicely distressed look'. I like it ;-)
Nancy Young
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know what they think of it, they are putting in what sells.
>> People like it. It's not for me.
>
> The corners of vinyl tile tends to lift easily, but it's a quick
> facelift.
FWIW, the above comment of mine was about SS appliances.
> Slate or anything that's expensive is on the shows where the house
> owner has a big budget for them to work with. Just go to the web site
> and look. You can give them a huge budget to work, with if you've got
> the money. I watched one show where they moved the site of a swimming
> pool (dug out the old one and put in a brand new one) in the midst of
> a complete back yard redo. That was a real jaw dropper.
People drop amounts of money on their yards that is astonishing.
To each their own, of course, if you use your yard a lot, what the
heck.
nancy
Nancy Young
> Another thing. If you do the work yourself and/or buy the
> flooring/materials yourself, you usually have a few spares, and you
> get to keep them by default. However, IME, if one has contractors in
> to do the whole job, unless you specifically ask them, they hot-foot
> it out there with anything that's left over - using the excuse that
> they are 'cleaning up' after the job.
Oh, I was steamed! If I had known the guy was going to take
off with my extra tile, I would have hidden a box. He's the one
who told me how much to order, now I know why. Not that it
was a lot, but I have a cracked tile I'd like to replace.
What a rip off.
nancy
Wayne Boatwright
I understand about tile floors...had them in two previous homes. Anything
with mass, like a piece of marble or granite, or a cast iron pan will
definitely mess up the tile, either cracking or chipping it. Yet, as
you've found out, glasses, crockery, and dishes don't fair so well when
they hit the tile.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
The ballot is stronger than the bullet.
-------------------------------------------
Nancy Young
> Sheldon wrote:
>> http://i26.tinypic.com/2vv2erc.jpg
> Those are GORGEOUS floors, Shel.
Indeed.
> What do you mop them with?
> What is the long thin "rod" looking thing next to the kitchen faucet.
> The faucet appears to have the built in sprayer in the faucet itself,
> so I can't figure out that little rod?
And *what* is that cat doing on the counter?? Hmmm??
Heh. I don't know why, I seem to wind up with cats who
can't even jump on the bed.
nancy
Edwin Pawlowski
<sf> wrote in message news:i62274hbe2dhv2g9s...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:50:20 -0400, Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Is it because it is currently
>>fashionable or is it the actual material cost itself?
>
> It's expensive because it's the fashion now. If white or black were
> what people were willing to pay top dollar for, they'd be the most
> expensive.
>
>
Everything is relative. SS is actually cheaper now, by comparison, than it
was 20 years ago. My Bertazzoni stove would have been cheaper in all SS
that in color since the color is applied over the SS.
Edwin Pawlowski
"Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6dcafjF...@mid.individual.net...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> What brand/model would that be?
>
> GE's Profile PGB910SEM, a five burner gas range with continuous grates,
> this very cool looking 5th "bridge" burner (which comes with a removable
> griddle) which should be great for some of our larger pans that we put
> over two burners now. We ordered it from Sears and got a good holiday sale
> price.
Good choice. I looked at that too. You'll love the continuous grates
hahabogus
@mid.individual.net:
Perhaps it is either a water filter or a instant hot water dealie...I'm
betting on the instant hot water supply gizmo.
--
The house of the burning beet-Alan
ChattyCathy
Quite so. Make no mistake one is charged for whatever they buy, so if they
are short of two more tiles to finish a room, they have to buy another
box - which comes in 1.8 square meters per box - at least that's the norm
here. (Sorry not sure how much that is in square feet, off the top of my
head). So now we either DIY, or 'demand' anything that's leftover - heck we
paid for it...
sf
<waynebo...@cox.net> wrote:
>On Sun 06 Jul 2008 11:11:11a, told us...
>
>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 03:13:43 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
>> <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
>>
>>>I'd have soft wood in the kitchen
>>
>> "Soft" wood, like pine? That's a no. Ever had pine furniture? It
>> dings easily.
>
>But it's easily restained and the "dings" add to a nicely distressed look.
>:-)
Depending on the finish, of course. I still would *not* want a pine
floor.
Steve Pope
>On Sun 06 Jul 2008 11:10:33a, Steve Pope told us...
>> Now that CAN'T be green.
>Wrong. Cork is a naturallly sustainable resource.
Ooops, you're right. The current claim is that cork forests
are endangered by declining cork usage. The fears of
overharvesting are in the past (for now).
Steve
Gregory Morrow
Michael "Dog3" wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright <waynebo...@cox.net>
> news:Xns9AD33E9EFA97Awa...@69.28.186.120: in
> rec.food.cooking
>
> > Nor me. I have black appliances. SS seems cold and industrial, not to
> > mention a bitch to keep in pristine condition.
>
> A lot of people like SS appliances. I don't think it's for us either. We
> chose white.
If it was 50 years ago you could have chosen pink, darling...and IIRC
Kelvinator even made *two - tone* fridges, following the two - tone
automobile fad 'o the day...
;-)
--
Best
Greg
Wayne Boatwright
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:36:46 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> <waynebo...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun 06 Jul 2008 11:11:11a, told us...
>>
>>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 03:13:43 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
>>> <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'd have soft wood in the kitchen
>>>
>>> "Soft" wood, like pine? That's a no. Ever had pine furniture? It
dings
>>> easily.
>>
>>But it's easily restained and the "dings" add to a nicely distressed
look.
>>:-)
>
> Depending on the finish, of course. I still would *not* want a pine
> floor.
>
>
I probably would want one either, but I have seen an old kitchen with a
wide plank heart pine floor that was really beautiful. The floor was very
old.
--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Sunday, 07(VII)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I bought a cordless extension cord.
-------------------------------------------
Steve Pope
> I have seen an old kitchen with a wide plank heart pine floor
> that was really beautiful. The floor was very old.
They're pretty popular in vacation homes and cabins ... places
where you don't live year round, so a few huge gouges and
dings don't really get on your nerves in the few weeks you
are there.
Steve
Nancy Young
> "Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>> What brand/model would that be?
>>
>> GE's Profile PGB910SEM, a five burner gas range with continuous
>> grates, this very cool looking 5th "bridge" burner (which comes with
>> a removable griddle) which should be great for some of our larger
>> pans that we put over two burners now. We ordered it from Sears and
>> got a good holiday sale price.
>
> Good choice. I looked at that too. You'll love the continuous grates
It took me a while to get used to the idea of the continuous
grates because the stove surface is flat all across except where
there are burners. I got over it. I'm very happy with the continuous
grates. However, I can't get the middle burner to light all the way
around, despite cleaning it. Don't know what the problem is.
nancy
Nancy Young
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> ChattyCathy wrote:
>>
>>> Another thing. If you do the work yourself and/or buy the
>>> flooring/materials yourself, you usually have a few spares, and you
>>> get to keep them by default. However, IME, if one has contractors in
>>> to do the whole job, unless you specifically ask them, they hot-foot
>>> it out there with anything that's left over - using the excuse that
>>> they are 'cleaning up' after the job.
>>
>> Oh, I was steamed! If I had known the guy was going to take
>> off with my extra tile, I would have hidden a box. He's the one
>> who told me how much to order, now I know why. Not that it
>> was a lot, but I have a cracked tile I'd like to replace.
>>
>> What a rip off.
>
> Quite so. Make no mistake one is charged for whatever they buy,
Even worse, he told me what to buy, I am the one who went
and bought it. Little did I know he thought that made it his
property.
> so if
> they are short of two more tiles to finish a room, they have to buy
> another
> box - which comes in 1.8 square meters per box - at least that's the
> norm here. (Sorry not sure how much that is in square feet, off the
> top of my head). So now we either DIY, or 'demand' anything that's
> leftover - heck we paid for it...
I learned my lesson.
nancy
Wayne Boatwright
They did, indeed. And GE offered not only pink, but yellow, turquoise, and
cocoa. GE also coordinated their appliances with Youngstown cabinets for
matching colors, and with Kohler for matching sink colors.
My first apartment was outfitted in GE turquoise appliances...fridge,
cooktop, built-in oven, turquoise Youngstown cabinets, and Kohler turquoise
sink. Not too terrible, until you realized that the builder had combined
all of this with pink Formica patterned countertops and a brown linoleum
floor. The apartment complex had been built in the late 1950s.
Dimitri
> I've mentioned here that we're updating/improving our kitchen. We've
> ordered the cabinets and granite, and just purchased the new range (the
> top rated gas model listed in Consumer's Reports recently) and over the
> range microwave oven/hood. I'm looking for a bottom freezer refrigerator
> but we can live with the old one until I find the perfect appliance at the
> best price. Lighting changes and flooring are still undecided.
>
> I'd love to hear input from folks who have tile as to how they love or
> hate it? I currently have vinyl, but have had heated tile in the past. I
> was younger then so might have been less aware of problems, but am
> concerned with the "hardness" of the floor for comfort? I am getting older
> now (sob!) and don't want to find tile floors are ergodynamically poor
> choices down the road after standing in the kitchen for extended periods.
> I recall my mother explaining how good dance floors are wood and impact
> absorbing properties over hard cement floors that are more jarring to your
> body. Yet wood floors aren't too practical in kitchens, are they?? I'm
> also interested in linoleum as I keep reading that it might be fairly
> "green" as well as good cost.
>
> The floor choice would need to be practical for the kitchen, breakfast
> room, mud room, laundry room and guest bathroom. The rest of the
> downstairs is hardwood.
>
> Goomba
If I ever have a chance to rebuild a kitchen I would do a nice tile like in
Mexico and a small DRAIN in the middle - get the impression a spill a lot.
:-)
--
Old Scoundrel
(AKA Dimitri)
Giusi
news:6dc99bF...@mid.individual.net...
> Giusi wrote:
>
>> I have been blaming "the day after" backaches on my age, but lately I
>> have been hearing much younger peiople claim it is the tile or stone
>> floors we all have. Mind you, I don't experience it unless I have spent
>> a 10 or 12 hour day working, so who knows?
>
> yeah, that's exactly what I'd like to avoid or protect against. I get
> enough wear and tear on my back and legs at work that I'd like to pamper
> them a bit more at home.
I tried Crocs last week when I had a job cooking. The temperature was
hovering around 100°F in there. Within minutes they had cut through my skin
in two places. You have to be willing to wear socks if you use them for
softness.
Gregory Morrow
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
Yup, my grandma had c. 1960 pink Fridgidaire appliances...
There is a great book you'd enjoy called _Populuxe_ by Thomas Hine,
(published in 1987 it's now OP but there are plenty of used copies on the
various book sites), that celebrates that 1955 - 64 era when US consumer
goods were jazzed up to be "luxurious" and "space age", incorporating the
new technologies of the time. There's an ad from Kelvinator c. 1956 that
shows all the two - tone combos for fridges. Some are pretty nauseating,
e.g. black and yellow, who wants a giant bumblebee in their kitchen? But
there is a charcoal gray - pink model that is pretty groovy (there was a
pink fad and a pink - and - gray fad in the mid - 50's. Remember the "Think
Pink" number from the fabulous 1957 Audrey Hepburn - Fred Astaire musical
_Funny Face_?)...
I could dig pink - and - charcoal appliances, but I'd have to have them in a
separate kitchen...they'd quickly get tiring on the eye.
The matching cabinet thing was a big deal, and also with the top section of
some fridges you could apply your own fabric or other materials to match
your decor...on ad shows a gal applying fabric to her fridge door that
matches her *dress* fabric, I guess there was a plastic thingy over the door
or something to cover the fabric.
They would have put tail fins on some of these appliances if they could
have, in fact I've noticed in some old vacuum cleaner ads from that era that
there *are* little tail fins on some of the models...
I love the appliance ads from that era, Frigidaire especially had these
great and elaborate two - page spreads in _Life_, etc. that featured
glamorous people in plush dream kitchens. They seemingly put as much effort
into introducing their new appliances in the autumn as they did to promoting
their NEW! GM car models...
[BTW, the second season of _Mad Men_ starts later this month...]
Fridgidaire introduced the straight - edged "Sheer Look" in appliances in
late '57, that basic look has stayed with us, 'though the colors have
changed over the years.
50's "planned obsolescence", ya gotta love it...
;-)
===>> we had a PINK '56 Buick Roadmaster 4 - door hardtop when I was a
kid...
--
Best
Greg