Food Netowk Strikes Again.
Andy
So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
Her new program is called "Cooking for $10 or less"?!?
Of course it can be done. I just don't see much imagination going in that
direction. How can she possibly be a star with a show like that?
Another dumb-down move by the Food Network.
Imho,
Andy
Andy
> I can
> see a lot more sense with this program, considering the economic
> situation of many,
Yeah, I suppose she should get the benefit of the doubt. She didn't say if
she was cooking for one or a family of four, etc. I imagine cooking for four
would be pushing it a bit.
Times are tough but the price of foods haven't gone down that I've noticed.
Andy
Kajikit
She's not cooking for one... theoretically she's going to show us a
meal for a family of four that costs $10 to make. Presumably that's
for 2 adults and 2 small children. I can see lots of people being
interested in the idea at least!
Christopher Helms
> Food Netowk Strikes Again.
>
> So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
>
> Her new program is called "Cooking for $10 or less"?!?
>
> Of course it can be done. I just don't see much imagination going in that
> direction. How can she possibly be a star with a show like that?
She might be able to make it work. The economy is not exactly singing
right now so there might be a market for a show featuring meals with
lots of rice and pasta. It'll take a lot of imagination and creativity
but that's what they're paid to have.
Janet Bostwick
"Kajikit" <kaj...@jagcon.com> wrote in message
news:h2sq759s1ug582bft...@4ax.com...
Most cooking shows (any network) that I have seen advertised for next season
have a thrift theme. And $10 seems to be a price point.
Janet
Bobo Bonobo®
> Andy <a...@b.c> news:Xns9C61507...@216.196.97.131:in
> rec.food.cooking
> couldn't tell you how long. I am no longer a fan of the network. I can
> see a lot more sense with this program, considering the economic
> the relentless chattering of Rachel Ray.
Boy, that's for sure.
> Michael
--Bryan
Purr Loin
> Another dumb-down move by the Food Network.
You really don't have a leg to stand on critiquing anybody else move
and coming to a "dumb" conclusion.
Andy
Well ain't you just a ray o' sunshine!
blake murphy
*au contraire*! andy has much expertise in the subject.
your pal,
blake
Stu
-->Food Netowk Strikes Again.
-->
-->So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
-->
-->Her new program is called "Cooking for $10 or less"?!?
-->
-->Of course it can be done. I just don't see much imagination going in that
-->direction. How can she possibly be a star with a show like that?
-->
-->Another dumb-down move by the Food Network.
-->
-->Imho,
-->
-->Andy
$10 for a family of four, it can be done. This may help a great number of
familys stretch their food budget.
Christine Dabney
I think it is a good idea. Stuff like that is very much needed in
this economic climate. Not a dumb move at all.....
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Nanzi
me want to try the ingredient he was touting, and I was looking
forward to more shows like it.
How many ingredients do we all see that we know nothing about, and
pass them up. It would have been fun to learn to use many of them.
They were both good, sorry they had to choose between them.
Nan
Andy
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:11:19 -0500, Stu <in...@foodforu.ca> wrote:
>
> I think it is a good idea. Stuff like that is very much needed in
> this economic climate. Not a dumb move at all.....
>
> Christine
I see everybody missed "Imho".
I'll wait until after her show debuts tomorrow whether to eat my words or
not.
Andy
Goomba
>> $10 for a family of four, it can be done. This may help a great number of
>> familys stretch their food budget.
>
> I think it is a good idea. Stuff like that is very much needed in
> this economic climate. Not a dumb move at all.....
>
> Christine
I have an old cookbook (lifestyle book?) from 1975 by Jo Ann York that
is titled "How I Feed My Family on $16 a Week (and have meat, fish or
poultry on the table every night)" She was a stay at home wife of a man
who sold mens clothes so lived on commission salary, with two young kids
at home. She reminds me of that frugalista woman years ago who put out
that newsletter on frugal living.
I have no idea what that amount translates to in todays dollars....?
But her story was that she basically ate simply, and planned meals out
down to the last grain of salt... (so to speak)
Planned meals, seasonal and sale items, portion control, simple tastes
and few to no processed items (other than frozen or canned veggies)
helped her achieve this goal. I admired her fortitude. Most of us (IMO)
are just too lazy to go to the extremes she did.
Andy
I saw that. "$10 Dinners". Not $10/daily.
Funny thing is her promise is "four people -- $10." She's got four girls and
a husband. That's a six member family. Wonder how she decides who does and
doesn't eat dinner on a daily basis? <G>
Andy
Ed Pawlowski
"Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> I have an old cookbook (lifestyle book?) from 1975 by Jo Ann York that is
> titled "How I Feed My Family on $16 a Week (and have meat, fish or poultry
> on the table every night)" She was a stay at home wife of a man who sold
> mens clothes so lived on commission salary, with two young kids at home.
> She reminds me of that frugalista woman years ago who put out that
> newsletter on frugal living.
> I have no idea what that amount translates to in todays dollars....?
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
What cost $16 in 1975 would cost $63.34 in 2008.
Ed Pawlowski
"Nanzi" <nan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e92f1bc8-b049-4bf1...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Early on I picked Jeffery as a possible winner and I figured Melissa would
be gone before the end. She does seem to have the cooking talent, but her
personality just seems a bit over the top fake or something. I feel as
though I'm watching "Cheerleader Championship" every time she is on camera
with a surgically implanted smile.
In the final she talked about how she "invented" the four step method of
something like: dredge, brown, deglaze, finish. We've been doing that
before she was born and I learned it from people that did it before I was
born. .
Andy
I only saw one episode. It was when she was behind schedule with plating her
dishes and she asked the other contestants to help her plate her dishes. I
thought that was a low class thing to do. If she couldn't finish her dishes,
she should have been asked to leave.
And Jeffery said on camera, "maybe she can cook for kids, but she shouldn't
be a Food TV chef." And he was one of two who helped save her ass. A career
ending move, I thought.
I hoped he'd win also.
Andy
Andy
> She does seem to have the cooking talent, but her
>> personality just seems a bit over the top fake or something. I feel as
>> though I'm watching "Cheerleader Championship" every time she is on
>> camera with a surgically implanted smile.
She is a very pretty woman but I too felt her perkiness and body language
were exaggerated but of course she used that to her advantage. I think she
has a beautiful smile.
Andy
Default User
> No, not a dumb move, but I was rooting for Jeffery Saad.
Not me. I was rooting for blonde mom all the way.
Brian
--
Day 187 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
sf
>Food Netowk Strikes Again.
>
>So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
I thought I'd recorded the last show, but somehow didn't and I missed
the rerun on Monday too. Darn. I didn't see it listed at hulu.com
either.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Andy
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:57:11 -0500, Andy <a@b.c> wrote:
>
>>Food Netowk Strikes Again.
>>
>>So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
>
> I thought I'd recorded the last show, but somehow didn't and I missed
> the rerun on Monday too. Darn. I didn't see it listed at hulu.com
> either.
The videos are at www.FoodTV.com. Click on Melissa's link and there are some
videos of the coverage that will play in succession. I didn't see the final
show either.
Andy
Paul M. Cook
"Andy" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:Xns9C61507...@216.196.97.131...
Great, another show featuring canned vegetables, Hamburger Helper and
instant rice.
Paul
Goomba
Oddly, she didn't use those ingredients the entire competition series so
why would you presume she'd use them now?
You can't come up with meals for 4 for $10? I certainly can.
sf
>The videos are at www.FoodTV.com. Click on Melissa's link and there are some
>videos of the coverage that will play in succession. I didn't see the final
>show either.
Thanks.
Ed Pawlowski
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:9jor75ttg8gs7f6mi...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:57:11 -0500, Andy <a@b.c> wrote:
>
>>Food Netowk Strikes Again.
>>
>>So Melissa was picked as the new food network star.
>
> I thought I'd recorded the last show, but somehow didn't and I missed
> the rerun on Monday too. Darn. I didn't see it listed at hulu.com
> either.
It was repeated today but you may be too late already. Sunday at 7 PM
again.
Andy
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:06:48 -0500, Andy <a@b.c> wrote:
>
>>The videos are at www.FoodTV.com. Click on Melissa's link and there are
>>some videos of the coverage that will play in succession. I didn't see
>>the final show either.
>
> Thanks.
Welcome.
Ed Pawlowski
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in message
>
> Great, another show featuring canned vegetables, Hamburger Helper and
> instant rice.
>
> Paul
I think you'll be disappointed.
Omelet
Goomba <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote:
So can I. Easily.
--
Peace! Om
"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein
recfood...@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: recfoodrecip...@yahoogroups.com
TammyM
I'm just hoping she does it better than Sandra Lee does on HER new show.
I haven't seen the Melissa show, but I was hoping they'd roll with the
"Survival" theme - maybe that's what's behind the budget concept. Even
if she doesn't do it better than SL, I'd far and away rather watch
Melissa. I too was cheering for her although I thought Jeffrey had some
good ideas as well.
TammyM
Andy
>
> On 8-Aug-2009, "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don'ta...@donttell.huh> wrote:
>
>> I haven't watched the Food Network, except when channel flipping, in I
>> couldn't tell you how long. I am no longer a fan of the network. I can
>
> I too have lost interest in their programming, with the exception of Good
> Eats - it is the only show on FN that I have watched start-to-finish in a
> very long time.
I use Comcast cable's website TV listings. For every (or favorite) channels,
they flag [New] for new programs with the typical brief summary, so I don't
have to view repeat programming.
I wouldn't watch [New] Rachel Ray if she was live, among others, so it's nice
to see [New] flagged programs to add to my couch potato pleasure! :D
Andy
djs...@aol.com
> Ed Pawlowski said...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Nanzi" <nann...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't care too much for those timed challenges where the
contestants are given a ridiculously short amount of time to prepare
something. Also, on that particular show, two of the other chefs
offered to help Melissa and she took them up on their offer. They
tried to use it against her by saying she needed help. She prepared
all the food herself. She just needed help getting it on the plate.
If this had been in an actual restaurant and someone needed help with
plating the other chefs would have helped without question. The chef
that tried to discredit Melissa knew the only way he could beat her
was to try to make her look bad since he knew she made better food
than she did. It didn't do him any good. He ended up being the one
sent home instead.
Jeffrey was okay but he just didn't seem natural on camera. I
wouldn't say he was fake but everything he said just seemed
rehearsed. Jamika was the same way only worse. Both Debbie and
Melissa just seemed to connect more with television audience. The bad
thing about Debbie was the fact she did some things that were deemed
questionable and unethical and she seemed to make nothing but Asian
food. Jeffrey was the same way but with southwestern food. Melissa,
on the other hand, was able to adapt more easily whenever she had to
cook with an unfamiliar ingredient. I definitely prefer her style of
cooking over Debbie's or Jeffrey's.
sf
wrote:
Thanks, I'm catching the last 15 minutes... missed her pilot (which is
on the FN site) but am watching his. I will set my recorder for 7PM
tomorrow and double check this time to make sure I didn't screw it up.
OK, his pilot finished... dang he's good. Makes me want to go out and
find harissa now! I didn't know it has heat. Food Network needs to
snag him.
The other two I liked were Michael... the guy with "the hair" and big
personality (but they already have one of those - Guy Fieri) and the
Asian woman, Debbie. Man, could she cook! I think FN would do very
well with a Korean-Southern fusion cooking show. However, she lost my
vote when she showed she wasn't a team player and I wasn't unhappy
when they eliminated her.
Bottom line, I bet they would have chosen Jeffrey a year ago - before
the economy crashed. However, given the economy, people aren't as
likely to scout out and buy an unknown ingredient - so Melissa was the
better choice. Both brought something to the table. Melissa
addresses the everyday cooking we need to do just to get through the
week so we can experiment Jeffrey style on the weekend.
Andy
> If this had been in an actual restaurant and someone needed help with
> plating the other chefs would have helped without question.
Of course! A restaurant is not an army of one like the Next Food TV Star show
is.
There was a "crowd" of staff in the French restaurant kitchen I worked in.
You sound familiar!
I believe you have it backwards. Melissa begged other contestants to help
her. NOT the other way round. Correct me if I'm wrong. I only saw that one
episode.
Andy
Paul M. Cook
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:wOqdnergbNCrcuDX...@giganews.com...
I already am. I gave up on FoodTV a long while back. Looks like the march
to WalMartification continues unabated.
Paul
Andy
I don't see it that way.
YMMV.
Andy
Paul M. Cook
Never said I couldn't. Here we have just another off the street nobody who
never cooked a day in her life given a staff of 30 people who actually make
a living at it and voila! Another show for the soccer moms and that means
even less of what terribly little they leave for the rest of us. Who needs
more shows on how to prepare franks and beans or corndogs and grilled cheese
sandwhiches?
I'm actually watching Emeril on another channel - and liking it. Thank
heavens I get Tony Bourdain's show. When they finally yank Alton Brown,
that's it for me.
Paul
Andy
> I'm actually watching Emeril on another channel - and liking it. Thank
> heavens I get Tony Bourdain's show. When they finally yank Alton Brown,
> that's it for me.
>
> Paul
Tony Bourdain is just a get around, get along, nice guy. He doesn't cook just
provides opinionated commentary.
Keith Floyd was great, imho. His cooking up dishes on boats were precious.
And it was usually nutritious.
Would've liked to shake his hand.
Andy
Paul M. Cook
"Andy" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:Xns9C61BFC...@216.196.97.131...
I loved Keith Floyd. He was always getting smashed taking "little slurps"
of whatever wine was with reach.
Paul
Goomba
> "Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> Great, another show featuring canned vegetables, Hamburger Helper and
>>> instant rice.
>>>
>>> Paul
>> Oddly, she didn't use those ingredients the entire competition series so
>> why would you presume she'd use them now?
>>
>> You can't come up with meals for 4 for $10? I certainly can.
>
> Never said I couldn't. Here we have just another off the street nobody who
> never cooked a day in her life given a staff of 30 people who actually make
> a living at it and voila! Another show for the soccer moms and that means
> even less of what terribly little they leave for the rest of us. Who needs
> more shows on how to prepare franks and beans or corndogs and grilled cheese
> sandwhiches?
Huh? You're making no sense. She's no different from you or I. I don't
use Hamburger Helper and instant rice.. why assume she does or will? Why
would a professional chef bother to watch FoodTV? So that leaves an
audience of people like you and me to connect with. She certainly made
some kickass good looking food during the competition, so I expect
she'll try to do the same on her show.
Andy
Right!. He looked like he was enjoying his wine but never offended the
audience. He was a good orator and engaging in the camera's eye as he cooked.
I enjoyed that talent of his.
Andy
Paul M. Cook
It's all phony corporate "fits the suit" stuff. Celebrities are all chosen
on marketability. Talent has nothing to do with it anymore. They are all
creations of corporate marketing boards. And IMO FoodTV is implying this
exact same thing.
I guarantee the person you are discussing probably started cooking at the
same time she was selected to "compete" for the title. Rachel Ray even
admitted that was the case for her. I also guarantee she was selected to
win before the show even aired for the first time. All these "contests" are
just corporate audience testing. They want to make money and this is how
they do it. Just like all the fake game shows. It's all TV and all TV is
fake.
Paul
Andy
> Just like all the fake game shows. It's all TV and all TV is
> fake.
>
> Paul
I sat front row center at Family Feud about 30 years ago.
At first, they sat us almost back row and the warm up guy asked us all to
applause and scream. I out-louded the rest of the audience! Actually turned
most of their heads around!!! A few seconds later a page invited us to move
down to the front row, dead center.
Best I can figure, we were seated too close to the sound booth in the back of
the studio. Front row was probably unknowingly the farthest from the
microphones. When we got seated in front, I was afraid to yell out at the
contestants right in front of me, so I fell silent.
Andy
"ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Jo Anne Slaven
wrote:
>
>"Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> I have an old cookbook (lifestyle book?) from 1975 by Jo Ann York that is
>> titled "How I Feed My Family on $16 a Week (and have meat, fish or poultry
>> on the table every night)" She was a stay at home wife of a man who sold
>> mens clothes so lived on commission salary, with two young kids at home.
>> She reminds me of that frugalista woman years ago who put out that
>> newsletter on frugal living.
>> I have no idea what that amount translates to in todays dollars....?
>
>
>http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
>What cost $16 in 1975 would cost $63.34 in 2008.
That's $9.00/day. I'm pretty sure I could do it if I had to. It would
take lots of planning and a fairly big freezer, though.
Jo Anne
>
Bobo Bonobo®
> Kajikit said...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:26:30 -0500, Andy <a...@b.c> wrote:
>
> >>Michael "Dog3" said...
>
> >>> I can
> >>> see a lot more sense with this program, considering the economic
> >>> situation of many,
>
> >>Yeah, I suppose she should get the benefit of the doubt. She didn't say
> >>if she was cooking for one or a family of four, etc. I imagine cooking
> >>for four would be pushing it a bit.
>
> >>Times are tough but the price of foods haven't gone down that I've
> >>noticed.
>
> > She's not cooking for one... theoretically she's going to show us a
> > meal for a family of four that costs $10 to make. Presumably that's
> > for 2 adults and 2 small children. I can see lots of people being
> > interested in the idea at least!
>
> I saw that. "$10 Dinners". Not $10/daily.
>
> Funny thing is her promise is "four people -- $10." She's got four girls and
> a husband. That's a six member family. Wonder how she decides who does and
> doesn't eat dinner on a daily basis? <G>
Thjere are folks who believe that a soul comes into existence upon
fertilization. If the zygote twins, do they have to share one soul?
Does one of them get the soul, and the other one is soulless?
>
> Andy
--Bryan
John Kuthe
What exactly is this "soul" we so freely speak of? What is it's
nature? Is it physical (matter + energy), and thus subject to the laws
of physics? If not, what is the nature of it's reality?
Now THAT'S the seed of a really really long discussion thread! ;-)
John Kuthe...
>
>
>
> > Andy
>
> --Bryan
sf
>
>I haven't seen the Melissa show, but I was hoping they'd roll with the
>"Survival" theme - maybe that's what's behind the budget concept. Even
>if she doesn't do it better than SL, I'd far and away rather watch
>Melissa. I too was cheering for her although I thought Jeffrey had some
>good ideas as well.
>
contestant that didn't strike me as one dimensional. All the others
seemed stuck in some sort of a rut. She also evolved the most, taking
suggestions and incorporating them into the following week's show.
jt august
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> It's all TV and all TV is fake.
Ah, reality. You gotta love it. As long as it isn't "reality TV," that
is.
jt
jt august
> Best I can figure, we were seated too close to the sound booth in the back of
> the studio. Front row was probably unknowingly the farthest from the
> microphones. When we got seated in front, I was afraid to yell out at the
> contestants right in front of me, so I fell silent.
Got that completely wrong. They loved having solid whoopers close to
the stage and mics. High energy, taht is what they wanted. Boy, did
you disappoint them when your timidity kicked in.
jt
John Kuthe
> In article <h5l3ve$u1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> > It's all TV and all TV is fake.
>
> Ah, reality. You gotta love it. As long as it isn't "reality TV," that
> is.
Ontologically speaking, what is real? ;-)
John Kuthe...
>
> jt
Michael O'Connor
> I too have lost interest in their programming, with the exception of Good
> Eats - it is the only show on FN that I have watched start-to-finish in a
> very long time.
I used to watch it a lot when it was actual cooks making food, such as
Emeril or Sara Moulton. But these days it seems every time I turn on
the FN they are having a cake making competition, or it's Guy's Diners
and Dives show where they don't show the recipes or Iron Chef. I do
like Good Eats too; I've learned a lot about the science of food from
Alton Brown.
Andy
I DIDN'T KNOW!!! :/
From the front row center, I could've "over-yelled" and upset the show, or
so I thought.
Richard Dawson (Hogan's Heroes) hosted. The audience sat through two
tapings.
Andy
jt august
Aaa, don't sweat it. It ain't that big a deal. But it was your
enthusiasm from the back when told to whoop it up that got your the
golden ticket. Their mistake. The didn't tell you to keep it up.
Ah, the Dawson daze. He is still the best host that show ever had. He
was great in Running Man, too.
jt
jt august
<214e5b2c-ca58-4741...@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
"Michael O'Connor" <mpoco...@aol.com> wrote:
> I do
> like Good Eats too; I've learned a lot about the science of food from
> Alton Brown.
I love that show, too. Brown is not only a genius in the science of
food, but arguably the comic genius of FN, also. Although, there have
been a hand full of things he has stated that I disagree with. The
biggest has to do with pizza. He proclaimed the crust the single most
important facet in making a good pizza. The sauce and cheese are
insignificant. I disagree. I feel the sauce is what makes or breaks a
good pizza. The other elements work in close concert, but nothing fixes
a pizza with a bad sauce.
jt
jt august
<afe214a7-098c-4271...@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
John Kuthe <john...@gmail.com> wrote:
All I know is that I'm the product of my own, deranged imagination.
jt
Andy
During a commercial break, I got to ask Mr. Dawson a question which was
"Where do you take your surveys?" He happily replied "Camarillo!" Great
laughs among the audience who knew it was the location of an age old insane
asylum.
Smiles between us! Fun moment.
Andy
Ed Pawlowski
Show is over. It was OK, but not somethign I'd be sure to watch in the
future. The food looked good though. My wife though she was boring.
Andy
>
> Show is over. It was OK, but not somethign I'd be sure to watch in the
> future. The food looked good though. My wife though she was boring.
Ed,
I was waiting for somebody to bring it up.
Claiming four people and not serving them was a sham. I'd've liked to have
seen four plates rather than take her word for it.
Wish it wasn't so "fast forward" as it seemed.
Andy
Andy
> It was OK, but not somethign I'd be sure to watch in the
>> future.
I'll give her show one more chance to "inspire" me.
She reminds me of a blonde Rachel Ray.
Today, it still stands as a dumb-down move by the Food Network, like I
predicted it would.
Naturally everybody is free to disagree!
Andy
blake murphy
> "Goomba" <Goom...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> I have an old cookbook (lifestyle book?) from 1975 by Jo Ann York that is
>> titled "How I Feed My Family on $16 a Week (and have meat, fish or poultry
>> on the table every night)" She was a stay at home wife of a man who sold
>> mens clothes so lived on commission salary, with two young kids at home.
>> She reminds me of that frugalista woman years ago who put out that
>> newsletter on frugal living.
>> I have no idea what that amount translates to in todays dollars....?
>
> http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
> What cost $16 in 1975 would cost $63.34 in 2008.
i bookmarked this as a reference site. thanks, ed.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
the audience at 'family feud' definitely sounds like your speed. what, was
'wheel of fortune' overbooked?
blake
Ed Pawlowski
"Andy" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:Xns9C6289B...@216.196.97.131...
Certainly looked as though it could feed four. The potato thingie was made
in a standard sized pie dish and a quarter of that is a decent sized dinner
serving, IMO. Add salad, then dessert.
Andy
What are the chances she's a 4'0" "shrimp" and she just makes everything
look bigger? LOL!
I know, I know!
I await her next episode.
Andy
Orlando Enrique Fiol
> Jeffrey was okay but he just didn't seem natural on camera. I
>wouldn't say he was fake but everything he said just seemed
>rehearsed. Jamika was the same way only worse. Both Debbie and
>Melissa just seemed to connect more with television audience. The bad
>thing about Debbie was the fact she did some things that were deemed
>questionable and unethical and she seemed to make nothing but Asian
>food.
So, according to you, should the food network not have an Asian food
specialist? Giada makes little more than Italian food. Should she be sacked?
>Jeffrey was the same way but with southwestern food.
So is Bobby Flay.
>Melissa, on the other hand, was able to adapt more easily whenever she had to
>cook with an unfamiliar ingredient. I definitely prefer her style of
>cooking over Debbie's or Jeffrey's.
I guess the Food Network is only interested in American food now. Gone are the
Two Hot Tamales and that weird Colombian chick with her "simply delicioso". Yes
folks, it's all about American grub now.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Brown is not only a genius in the science of
>food, but arguably the comic genius of FN, also. Although, there have
>been a hand full of things he has stated that I disagree with. The
>biggest has to do with pizza. He proclaimed the crust the single most
>important facet in making a good pizza. The sauce and cheese are
>insignificant. I disagree. I feel the sauce is what makes or breaks a
>good pizza. The other elements work in close concert, but nothing fixes
>a pizza with a bad sauce.
Pizza bianca has no sauce, while tomato pie has no cheese, which leaves the
crust common to all three; that's what Brown meant.
Orlando
ViLco
> OK, his pilot finished... dang he's good. Makes me want to go out and
> find harissa now! I didn't know it has heat. Food Network needs to
> snag him.
Interesting subject. Here I can find harissa in afro-arab stores, or just
order a hot kebab and it will be full of harissa. My first time with this
sauce has been in Bologna at a turkish falafel shop, 10 or more years ago.
It has a strong herbal taste to it, mainly garlic, caraway and cumin, a lot
of cumin, so be aware if you happen to dislike one of those.
On the other hand, I don't like cumin very much but the dose of harissa in a
single kebab sandwich, even the dose one needs to make it very hot, is not
enough to ruin the whole sandwich with the cumin's taste.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano
sf
>Here I can find harissa in afro-arab stores, or just
>order a hot kebab and it will be full of harissa. My first time with this
>sauce has been in Bologna at a turkish falafel shop, 10 or more years ago.
>It has a strong herbal taste to it, mainly garlic, caraway and cumin, a lot
>of cumin, so be aware if you happen to dislike one of those.
>On the other hand, I don't like cumin very much but the dose of harissa in a
>single kebab sandwich, even the dose one needs to make it very hot, is not
>enough to ruin the whole sandwich with the cumin's taste.
Like you, I'm not fond of ground cumin... however I like it in chili,
so maybe I'll like it in harissa too. *That's* what was missing from
his segment - a decent description of what harissa tasted like, other
than "hot".
Giusi
"sf" ha scritto nel messaggio >
"ViLco" <Vi...@ViLco.invalid> wrote:
>
>>It has a strong herbal taste to it, mainly garlic, caraway and cumin, a
>>lot >>of cumin, so be aware if you happen to dislike one of those.
> Like you, I'm not fond of ground cumin... however I like it in chili,> so
> maybe I'll like it in harissa too. *That's* what was missing from> his
> segment - a decent description of what harissa tasted like, other> than
> "hot".
The kind I could buy in tins at Arab butchers was bitter and I didn't like
it. When I looked up a recipe and made it though, I was sold. It is tart,
hot, some herbal notes. It's easy to stir a spoonful into something that
needs zippiness.
sf
wrote:
>The kind I could buy in tins at Arab butchers was bitter and I didn't like
>it. When I looked up a recipe and made it though, I was sold. It is tart,
>hot, some herbal notes. It's easy to stir a spoonful into something that
>needs zippiness.
Does it keep well? I can't think of many uses I'd have for it. I'd
definitely slather it on lamb to bbq.
Giusi
"sf" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>>The kind I could buy in tins at Arab butchers was bitter and I didn't like
>> >>it. When I looked up a recipe and made it though, I was sold. It is
>>tart, >>hot, some herbal notes. It's easy to stir a spoonful into
>>something that
>>needs zippiness.
>
> Does it keep well? I can't think of many uses I'd have for it. I'd
> definitely slather it on lamb to bbq.
i make small amounts but it does keep well in the fridge. As a lamb slather
I prefer chermoula.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>I miss Two Hot Tamales and the Two Fat Ladies; those were among my favorite
>Food Network shows.
I loved those shows because I got a very clear sense of the food being
cherished and prepared by their hosts. eve n though the Two Hot Tamales weren't
Mexican, they were clearly passionate enough about Mexican food and culture to
travel through that country numerous times for extended periods. The Two Fat
Ladies cooked what I'd describe as kicked-up English food with continental
twists, all irreverently disregarding pseudo health fads regarding fat, carbs
or calories. No one besides Paula Dean has been ballsy enough to evince such
decadence.
Orlando
sf
Bob Terwilliger
> I loved those shows because I got a very clear sense of the food being
> cherished and prepared by their hosts. eve n though the Two Hot Tamales
> weren't Mexican, they were clearly passionate enough about Mexican food
> and culture to travel through that country numerous times for extended
> periods.
Well, aren't *you* the double-standard-toting blatant hypocrite!
Rick Bayless -- as already cited here again and again -- spent YEARS
traveling in Mexico studying their regional cuisines. The food he cooks is
thousands of times more refined than that prepared by the Two Hot Tamales.
It wouldn't surprise me if they gave the same evaluation to their respective
skills.
I'm guessing that you liked the Two Hot Tamales just because you liked to
masturbate while watching them.
Bob
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Well, aren't *you* the double-standard-toting blatant hypocrite!
>Rick Bayless -- as already cited here again and again -- spent YEARS
>traveling in Mexico studying their regional cuisines. The food he cooks is
>thousands of times more refined than that prepared by the Two Hot Tamales.
>It wouldn't surprise me if they gave the same evaluation to their respective
>skills.
How do you know which is more refined? Have any Mexicans told you, or are you
merely reading Rick Bayless' hype? Besides, the Two Hot Tamales didn't found a
veritable conglomerate of high priced restaurants, cookbooks, instructional
materials and product lines.
>I'm guessing that you liked the Two Hot Tamales just because you liked to
>masturbate while watching them.
Actually, I'm totally blind from birth and they never sounded all that hot to
me.
Orlando
Christine Dabney
<of...@verizon.net> wrote:
>How do you know which is more refined? Have any Mexicans told you, or are you
>merely reading Rick Bayless' hype? Besides, the Two Hot Tamales didn't found a
>veritable conglomerate of high priced restaurants, cookbooks, instructional
>materials and product lines.
I beg to differ. Check out their website:
http://www.marysueandsusan.com/
They own several restaurants, and have written several cookbooks.
Christine
Lin
> How do you know which is more refined? Have any Mexicans told you, or are you
> merely reading Rick Bayless' hype? Besides, the Two Hot Tamales didn't found a
> veritable conglomerate of high priced restaurants, cookbooks, instructional
> materials and product lines.
These non-Mexican girls have several restaurants running at the moment:
http://www.marysueandsusan.com/restaurants.htm
Border Grill has a "truck" that shows up for special events, and then
there are Las Vegas and Santa Monica Restaurants under the Border Grill
name. There's also Ciudad in Los Angeles. Gee, Rick Bayless has two
restaurants, so that "special event' taco truck and one restaurant has
trumped him.
Four books that I've come across on a quick google:
http://www.starchefs.com/Tamales/cookbook.html
That link didn't even mention the "Mexican Cooking for Dummies" by
Feniger or the "Mexican Cooking Essentials for Dummies" also by Feniger.
Six books by Bayless. The pricing of his books is not out of line with
anything Milliken and Feniger have done (or others for that matter).
Give it up Orlando. This one your are completely wrong on. Bob called
you on your hypocrisy, and I totally agree.
--Lin (he's givin' it up for the ladies)
Christine Dabney
wrote:
>These non-Mexican girls have several restaurants running at the moment:
>
>http://www.marysueandsusan.com/restaurants.htm
>
>Border Grill has a "truck" that shows up for special events, and then
>there are Las Vegas and Santa Monica Restaurants under the Border Grill
>name. There's also Ciudad in Los Angeles. Gee, Rick Bayless has two
>restaurants, so that "special event' taco truck and one restaurant has
>trumped him.
>
>Four books that I've come across on a quick google:
>
>http://www.starchefs.com/Tamales/cookbook.html
>
>That link didn't even mention the "Mexican Cooking for Dummies" by
>Feniger or the "Mexican Cooking Essentials for Dummies" also by Feniger.
>
>Six books by Bayless. The pricing of his books is not out of line with
>anything Milliken and Feniger have done (or others for that matter).
>--Lin (he's givin' it up for the ladies)
They also have a line of prepared foods at Whole Foods...and a line of
peppermills.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Bob Terwilliger
Bayless:
> How do you know which is more refined? Have any Mexicans told you, or are
> you merely reading Rick Bayless' hype?
I don't *need* a Mexican to tell me. I can read, and I can cook using
cookbooks from both parties in question. The Two Hot Tamales cook food which
is pleasant enough; it's the kind of fare I can find in most any cantina,
even the one at Osan Air Base in South Korea -- which is staffed entirely by
Koreans. I am also perfectly capable of producing food of that caliber in my
own kitchen, and I can speak with supreme confidence on that issue because I
have been to Border Grill in Santa Monica on several occasions, and I *have*
cooked Mexican food which is the equal of anything I've had there. Rick
Bayless's recipes demonstrate a much deeper understanding of the myriad
different chiles and a much wider knowledge of the authentic cooking of
Mexico.
> Besides, the Two Hot Tamales didn't found a veritable conglomerate of high
> priced restaurants, cookbooks, instructional materials and product lines.
LOL! Christine and Lin have already blasted *that* lie out of the water.
>> I'm guessing that you liked the Two Hot Tamales just because you liked to
>> masturbate while watching them.
>
> Actually, I'm totally blind from birth and they never sounded all that hot
> to me.
They don't *need* to be hot when you're desperate...and the way you're
grasping at straws shows your desperation more and more. You've already
admitted to your racism, and now you've announced your sexist double
standard to the world. Are you going to attack the Jews now, or will the
gays be your next target?
I'm not some Bayless fanboy; on television I think the guy comes across as
smarmy and creepy. But I am objective enough to recognize his culinary
talents, which is something you seem completely unable to do -- so you're
blind in more ways than one.
Bob
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Six books by Bayless. The pricing of his books is not out of line with
>anything Milliken and Feniger have done (or others for that matter).
>Give it up Orlando. This one your are completely wrong on. Bob called
>you on your hypocrisy, and I totally agree.
It takes a secure man to admit when he's wrong. Your research has indeed prove
n that the Two Hot Tamales are guilty of the same sins as Rick Bayless. No more
hypocrisy from me! I won't go to the girls' restaurants or buy their prepared
foods either. Happy now?
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>They don't *need* to be hot when you're desperate...and the way you're
>grasping at straws shows your desperation more and more. You've already
>admitted to your racism, and now you've announced your sexist double
>standard to the world. Are you going to attack the Jews now, or will the
>gays be your next target?
Why are you taking this so personally? All I ever said was that talented
Mexican chefs are more deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless.
Thanks to you and others, I can add the Two Hot Tamales to my boycott list. Is
that what your crusade set out to accomplish?
>I'm not some Bayless fanboy; on television I think the guy comes across as
>smarmy and creepy. But I am objective enough to recognize his culinary
>talents, which is something you seem completely unable to do -- so you're
>blind in more ways than one.
You don't get it because you're white, presumably somewhat privileged and from
the West. Why should white people always get free passes to rip off the "Third
World," whether in cooking, art, music, dance or anything else? Why such a
laisez faire attitude when it comes to Bayless and others getting rich off
foreign food?
Orlando
Bob Terwilliger
> Why are you taking this so personally? All I ever said was that talented
> Mexican chefs are more deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless.
> Thanks to you and others, I can add the Two Hot Tamales to my boycott
> list. Is that what your crusade set out to accomplish?
There's only one reason you say that "talented Mexican chefs are more
deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless." It's because you are a
racist. I take it personally because I think racism is one of the worst ills
of any society. You should be horsewhipped until you get your head on
straight.
> You don't get it because you're white, presumably somewhat privileged and
> from the West. Why should white people always get free passes to rip off
> the
> "Third World," whether in cooking, art, music, dance or anything else? Why
> such a laisez faire attitude when it comes to Bayless and others getting
> rich off foreign food?
Where is the "ripping off" you mention? It's NOWHERE but in your own
fucked-up head. Latino chefs can make it in the USA; the fact that you
cannot see that and instead focus on the success of a white chef makes you
an even filthier bigot than Sheldon.
Bob
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>There's only one reason you say that "talented Mexican chefs are more
>deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless." It's because you are a
>racist.
I'm going to take the high ground and respectfully disagree. What niche does
Rick Bayless fulfill for white people interested in Mexican food? He speaks
English and looks like the majority of his viewers and customers. Looking at
him, people feel that if he can do it, so can they. A Mexican chef of
comparable or superior quality would not appeal as much because of a Spanish
name and foreign accent. Contrary to your accusation of racism, I find it
racist that PBS hires Chinese chefs to teach Chinese cooking, Jacques Pepin for
French, Lydia and other Italians for Italian food, etc. Could they not have
bothered to seek out a talented Mexican or Chicano chef?
>I take it personally because I think racism is one of the worst ills
>of any society. You should be horsewhipped until you get your head on
>straight.
The only racism you're decrying here, Bob, is the ability of white people to
profit from foreign cultures. You would have made the same arguments in favor
of the Bozwell Sisters, Elvis Presley, Eminem and a myriad white entertainers
getting rich off black culture.
>Where is the "ripping off" you mention? It's NOWHERE but in your own
>fucked-up head. Latino chefs can make it in the USA; the fact that you
>cannot see that and instead focus on the success of a white chef makes you
>an even filthier bigot than Sheldon.
How many Latino chefs are on PBS or the Food Network? It can't be because
they're unqualified because Latin-American countries have four and five star
restaurants of every description. Just admit it, white people are more
comfortable eating food cooked by white folks, watching them on TV and
purchasing their cookbooks. Why would publishers rather commission mediocre
white cooks to travel the globe in search of recipes rather than translate
foreign cookbooks into English? Because they hop to brand white cookbook
authors as celebrities to a hungry white audience. That is racism!
Orlando
Bob Terwilliger
>> There's only one reason you say that "talented Mexican chefs are more
>> deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless." It's because you are
>> a racist.
>
> I'm going to take the high ground and respectfully disagree. What niche
> does Rick Bayless fulfill for white people interested in Mexican food? He
> speaks English and looks like the majority of his viewers and customers.
> Looking at him, people feel that if he can do it, so can they.
That's stupid: If a chef is primarily interested in garnering success for
his restaurants, it's in his best interests to make his cooking look
DIFFICULT. The niche that Rick Bayless fits is no different than the niche
EVERY restaurateur tries to fit: Serving good food and making customers
happy. Bayless simply chose to serve good MEXICAN food, because he can cook
Mexican food better than any of the Mexicans around Chicago.
> A Mexican chef of comparable or superior quality would not appeal as much
> because of a Spanish name and foreign accent.
That is both stupid and easily proven wrong: Jos� Andr�s has a Spanish name
and a foreign accent, and he has had great success in spreading Spanish
cuisine here.
> Contrary to your accusation of racism, I find it racist that PBS hires
> Chinese chefs to teach Chinese cooking, Jacques Pepin for French, Lydia
> and other Italians for Italian food, etc. Could they not have bothered to
> seek out a talented Mexican or Chicano chef?
PBS hires chefs who have the ability who know their craft, who are able to
communicate, and who don't come unglued in front of a camera. The fact that
they hired Pepin, Bastianich, and the others you mention shows that they
must have looked for a Mexican FIRST, but couldn't find one as good for the
network's purposes as Bayless.
>> I take it personally because I think racism is one of the worst ills
>> of any society. You should be horsewhipped until you get your head on
>> straight.
>
> The only racism you're decrying here, Bob, is the ability of white people
> to profit from foreign cultures.
This is simply wrong: You're projecting YOUR argument onto ME. I'm not the
one objecting to a white person profiting by studying Mexican cooking and
honing his culinary skills to the point where he outshines all Mexicans in
view; YOU are. I think it's GREAT that Bayless has managed to outstrip his
competition, given the years and years *they* had of growing up with Mexican
food. The Mexican competition had a HUGE head start, but Bayless has not
only overtaken them, he has left them in the dust. It's an inspiration; a
real American success story. The racism I see is YOUR repeated allegations
that Bayless can't possibly cook Mexican food as well as a Mexican.
Thousands of people who have eaten at Bayless's restaurants say that you are
wrong.
> You would have made the same arguments in favor of the Bozwell Sisters,
> Elvis Presley, Eminem and a myriad white entertainers getting rich off
> black culture.
I would have absolutely no objection to a Mexican owning and running a
wildly-successful French restaurant, or barbecue restaurant, or Cajun
restaurant, or restaurant of any cuisine you can name. I have no objection
at all to Marcus Samuelsson (a black man from Ethiopia) and his outstanding
success in Scandinavian cooking. I don't go around saying that he doesn't
deserve his wealth and his accolades. I don't say that he's stealing from
the Scandinavian culture. But YOU would say such a thing, wouldn't you,
because you are an unmitigated racist!
>> Where is the "ripping off" you mention? It's NOWHERE but in your own
>> fucked-up head. Latino chefs can make it in the USA; the fact that you
>> cannot see that and instead focus on the success of a white chef makes
>> you an even filthier bigot than Sheldon.
>
> How many Latino chefs are on PBS or the Food Network? It can't be because
> they're unqualified because Latin-American countries have four and five
> star restaurants of every description. Just admit it, white people are
> more comfortable eating food cooked by white folks, watching them on TV
> and purchasing their cookbooks. Why would publishers rather commission
> mediocre white cooks to travel the globe in search of recipes rather than
> translate foreign cookbooks into English? Because they hop to brand white
> cookbook authors as celebrities to a hungry white audience. That is
> racism!
You don't get it: Rick Bayless is the EXCEPTION. White people go to
Latino-owned Mexican restaurants all the time; I'd venture to say that well
over 90% of the Mexican restaurants out there are owned, run, and mostly
staffed by Latinos. (I use the term "Latino" because -- unlike you -- I
don't want to exclude people from Spanish-speaking Caribbean nations, from
Central America, or from South America.) The fact that those restaurants
don't enjoy the success of the restaurants Bayless owns is not because
Bayless is white, it's because BAYLESS COOKS BETTER FOOD. But your closed
mind cannot even admit the POSSIBILITY that such a thing could be the case,
you bigot.
Moreover, you have no idea how many Mexican EAT at Bayless's restaurants
because the food is so good. You just allege that it's too expensive for
Mexicans to eat there -- a racist comment if ever there was one -- but you
have absolutely no data to back up your allegations. Like any assheaded
bigot, you just blunder ahead blindly, neither knowing nor caring about
facts.
Bob
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>That's stupid: If a chef is primarily interested in garnering success for
>his restaurants, it's in his best interests to make his cooking look
>DIFFICULT.
What does that have to do with my comment about white people wanting to see
other white folks cooking foreign food?
>The niche that Rick Bayless fits is no different than the niche
>EVERY restaurateur tries to fit: Serving good food and making customers
>happy. Bayless simply chose to serve good MEXICAN food, because he can cook
>Mexican food better than any of the Mexicans around Chicago.
What a naive assumption! Does that mean the cream always rises to the top? What
if there's a better Mexican chef in Chicago who lacks the capital or
connections to open a restaurant? Does that mean his cooking is automatically
inferior?
>That is both stupid and easily proven wrong: José Andrés has a Spanish name
>and a foreign accent, and he has had great success in spreading Spanish
>cuisine here.
Do you really not understand that white Americans have far more pleasant
associations with romantic Spain than dirty, stinky, greasy, politically
volatile but sexually tempting Latin-America?
>PBS hires chefs who have the ability who know their craft, who are able to
>communicate, and who don't come unglued in front of a camera. The fact that
>they hired Pepin, Bastianich, and the others you mention shows that they
>must have looked for a Mexican FIRST, but couldn't find one as good for the
>network's purposes as Bayless.
If they initially looked for a mexican, but settled on Bayless because they
couldn't find a good one, I'll take your version of the truth. Until then,
you're probably wrong.
>This is simply wrong: You're projecting YOUR argument onto ME. I'm not the
>one objecting to a white person profiting by studying Mexican cooking and
>honing his culinary skills to the point where he outshines all Mexicans in
>view; YOU are. I think it's GREAT that Bayless has managed to outstrip his
>competition, given the years and years *they* had of growing up with Mexican
>food. The Mexican competition had a HUGE head start, but Bayless has not
>only overtaken them, he has left them in the dust.
Only American critics claim this. Find me even one credible mexican culinary
expert who claims in writing that Rick Bayless leaves all mexican chefs in the
dust. I'm waiting.
>It's an inspiration; a real American success story.
Based on unsupported allegations of culinary superiority measured outside the
native culture by people lacking sufficient credentials and intimate
familiarity with that culture.
>The racism I see is YOUR repeated allegations
>that Bayless can't possibly cook Mexican food as well as a Mexican.
>Thousands of people who have eaten at Bayless's restaurants say that you are
>wrong.
Thousands of Mexican people? Thousands of upper-class Mexican people who would
have grown up with the sort of "refined" food Bayless cooks?
>I would have absolutely no objection to a Mexican owning and running a
>wildly-successful French restaurant, or barbecue restaurant, or Cajun
>restaurant, or restaurant of any cuisine you can name. I have no objection
>at all to Marcus Samuelsson (a black man from Ethiopia) and his outstanding
>success in Scandinavian cooking. I don't go around saying that he doesn't
>deserve his wealth and his accolades. I don't say that he's stealing from
>the Scandinavian culture. But YOU would say such a thing, wouldn't you,
>because you are an unmitigated racist!
Are you really that dense? Samuelsson grew up in Scandinavia, (I can't remember
whether Norway or Sweden); he has the accent to prove it. He's not some random
Ethiopian who decided to go to Norway on a Study Abroad program, pick up some
culinary tips and bring them home to make a boatload of money.
>You don't get it: Rick Bayless is the EXCEPTION. White people go to
>Latino-owned Mexican restaurants all the time; I'd venture to say that well
>over 90% of the Mexican restaurants out there are owned, run, and mostly
>staffed by Latinos. (I use the term "Latino" because -- unlike you -- I
>don't want to exclude people from Spanish-speaking Caribbean nations, from
>Central America, or from South America.)
As one of those Latinos, I applaud your sensitivity.
>The fact that those restaurants don't enjoy the success of the restaurants
Bayless owns is not because
>Bayless is white, it's because BAYLESS COOKS BETTER FOOD.
No. It's because many Latino-owned restaurants are not located in fashionable
parts of town. They don't always get the writeups in swanky foody publications
that Bayless gets. Their chefs are not invited to do PBS series, all of which
adds up to the unfortunate fact that few Latino-owned restaurants have managed
to attract a national buzz. Latin-America is full of fascinating chefs cooking
fabulously inventive food, most of which escapes the Eurocentric radar for
racist reasons.
>But your closed mind cannot even admit the POSSIBILITY that such a thing could
be the case,
>you bigot.
>Moreover, you have no idea how many Mexican EAT at Bayless's restaurants
>because the food is so good. You just allege that it's too expensive for
>Mexicans to eat there -- a racist comment if ever there was one -- but you
>have absolutely no data to back up your allegations. Like any assheaded
>bigot, you just blunder ahead blindly, neither knowing nor caring about
>facts.
Actually, Bayless claims that Mexicans take their families to his restaurants
on special occasions. Great! Here comes preppy, white hipster making his living
cooking supposedly refined Mexican food that Mexican immigrants can only afford
to eat on special occasions. What's wrong with that picture? I would feel the
same way about an Irish Catholic or a Jew cooking royal Mughlai Indian cuisine
that Bangladeshi or Panjaabi familes could barely afford to eat. Something's
wrong with that picture, and it has nothing to do with f re enterprise or good
old American success; it has to do with cruel appropriation.
Orlando
Bob Terwilliger
> What does that have to do with my comment about white people wanting to
> see other white folks cooking foreign food?
Is that your way of saying that you'd rather see Mexican people cooking in
every restaurant you patronize? You can't speak for other people, only for
yourself, and what you wrote there is VERY telling, racist.
> What if there's a better Mexican chef in Chicago who lacks the capital or
> connections to open a restaurant? Does that mean his cooking is
> automatically inferior?
Talent will out. If there were a better Mexican chef in Chicago, there's NO
WAY nobody would know about it. Better than Rick Bayless? Venture
capitalists would be FIST-FIGHTING IN THE STREET to provide money for a
restaurant of that caliber, regardless of the ethnicity of the chef! What
you fail to realize because your racism blinds you to it is that people who
have money to invest care more about making money than they do about the
race of the person making money for them. Only the most dyed-in-the-wool
racist would give even a millisecond of consideration before choosing to
support such a venture. Of course, YOU would never support a white chef, so
it's just as well you're not an investor.
>> That is both stupid and easily proven wrong: Josￜ Andrￜs has a Spanish
>> name and a foreign accent, and he has had great success in spreading
>> Spanish cuisine here.
>
> Do you really not understand that white Americans have far more pleasant
> associations with romantic Spain than dirty, stinky, greasy, politically
> volatile but sexually tempting Latin-America?
YOU SAID that it was the Spanish name and accent which was off-putting. Your
EXACT WORDS were "because of a Spanish name and foreign accent." I
*completely* refuted that stupidity, so now you're trying to weasel out by
trashing Latin-American culture. Not buying your shifting standards, racist.
> Find me even one credible mexican culinary expert who claims in writing
> that Rick Bayless leaves all mexican chefs in the dust. I'm waiting.
Find me "one credible mexican culinary expert," racist. I'm waiting. Have
you personally ever even BEEN to Mexico? Or are you just one of those
"homeland" posers with a sum total of ZERO first-hand experience?
>> It's an inspiration; a real American success story.
>
> Based on unsupported allegations of culinary superiority measured outside
> the native culture by people lacking sufficient credentials and intimate
> familiarity with that culture.
It's supported by the exceptional fame and fortune showered on Rick Bayless
for the quality of his cuisine! What better support could there possibly be,
racist?
>> The racism I see is YOUR repeated allegations that Bayless can't possibly
>> cook Mexican food as well as a Mexican. Thousands of people who have
>> eaten at Bayless's restaurants say that you are wrong.
>
> Thousands of Mexican people? Thousands of upper-class Mexican people who
> would have grown up with the sort of "refined" food Bayless cooks?
Where did *I* say "thousands of Mexicans"? Are you now going to compound
your racism and state that only Mexicans are capable of enjoying Mexican
food? How blatant can you GET?
>> I have no objection at all to Marcus Samuelsson (a black man from
>> Ethiopia) and his outstanding success in Scandinavian cooking. I don't go
>> around saying that he doesn't deserve his wealth and his accolades. I
>> don't say that he's stealing from the Scandinavian culture. But YOU would
>> say such a thing, wouldn't you, because you are an unmitigated racist!
>
> Are you really that dense? Samuelsson grew up in Scandinavia, (I can't
> remember whether Norway or Sweden); he has the accent to prove it. He's
> not some random Ethiopian who decided to go to Norway on a Study Abroad
> program, pick up some culinary tips and bring them home to make a boatload
> of money.
But according to YOU, what matters is ethnicity. That's why you keep harping
on Rick Bayless's race, isn't it? If ethnicity doesn't matter, then you have
absolutely no grounds to form an argument here, and you should embrace and
applaud the accomplishments of Rick Bayless, like so many Americans have.
>> The fact that those restaurants don't enjoy the success of the
>> restaurants Bayless owns is not because Bayless is white, it's because
>> BAYLESS COOKS BETTER FOOD.
>
> No. It's because many Latino-owned restaurants are not located in
> fashionable parts of town. They don't always get the writeups in swanky
> foody publications that Bayless gets. Their chefs are not invited to do
> PBS series, all of which adds up to the unfortunate fact that few
> Latino-owned restaurants have managed to attract a national buzz.
> Latin-America is full of fascinating chefs cooking fabulously inventive
> food, most of which escapes the Eurocentric radar for racist reasons.
The only racist here is YOU. You dismiss the accomplishments of someone who
has gained success through BEATING MEXICANS AT THEIR OWN GAME, simply
because he is white. Envy, bitterness, and racist hatred run through your
every post here. PBS has *proven* that they are not racist, yet you express
bitterness that a white man appears on PBS cooking Mexican food. Well, he
was BETTER than the other candidates, wasn't he? Bayless doesn't get those
swanky writeups because he's white, he gets them because he is a better cook
than his competition.
> Actually, Bayless claims that Mexicans take their families to his
> restaurants on special occasions.
Here's a newsflash for you: I'd be willing to hazard a guess that there are
Polish families who patronize his restaurants on special occasions. Probably
a bunch of those damn white Finns, too, how I know you hate them. Maybe even
some of those Anglos, oh, the Anglos are the WORST, aren't they? You want to
gut them all with a fishing knife, you hate them so much! You fucking
racist, you make me sick.
> Great! Here comes preppy, white hipster making his living cooking
> supposedly refined Mexican food that Mexican immigrants can only afford to
> eat on special occasions. What's wrong with that picture? I would feel the
> same way about an Irish Catholic or a Jew cooking royal Mughlai Indian
> cuisine that Bangladeshi or Panjaabi familes could barely afford to eat.
> Something's wrong with that picture, and it has nothing to do with f re
> enterprise or good old American success; it has to do with cruel
> appropriation.
There's NOTHING wrong with that picture. It's a restaurant. If its prices
were too high it would go out of business. Do you think things would be
better if Bayless put up a big sign which said "Half-Price Appetizers With
Every Mexican"? Have you NO CONCEPT AT ALL about anti-discrimination laws?
Bob
Goomba
> virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz wrote:
>> That's stupid: If a chef is primarily interested in garnering success for
>> his restaurants, it's in his best interests to make his cooking look
>> DIFFICULT.
>
> What does that have to do with my comment about white people wanting to see
> other white folks cooking foreign food?
Nonsense. I don't particularly want to see any of the cooks who are
doing my food and never in my life have I given a damn what race the
cook is. Now Rick I'd love to see and meet because he is so extraordinary!
Ed Pawlowski
"Orlando Enrique Fiol" <of...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> All I ever said was that talented
> Mexican chefs are more deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless.
>
> You don't get it because you're white, presumably somewhat privileged and
> from
> the West. Why should white people always get free passes to rip off the
> "Third
> World," whether in cooking, art, music, dance or anything else? Why such a
> laisez faire attitude when it comes to Bayless and others getting rich off
> foreign food?
>
> Orlando
You may be correct that some Mexican chefs deserve more praise than Bayless,
but, they have not, for many reasons, put themselves in the same position.
There are though, many well know chefs of non US origin that have done
well. I guess you can say they are exploiting Americans.
Rather than despise Bayless, why not take advantage of what he has done?
He does employ Mexican chefs in his restaurant, he supports Mexican
charities, he teaches the rest of us how good Mexican food can be. Growing
up, most of us in the US think Taco Bell is the real deal, but Bayless has
taught me that seeking out real Mexican food, touring Mexico and learning
about its people and heritage is something to aspire too. There is much
more than artificial resorts like Cancun in the country.
Do you feel that only citizens and decedents of the third world countries
should ever cook that type of food? If you eat pasta are you exploiting
Italians? Frankly, I've earned more about Mexican food from Rick Bayless
than Orlando Enrique Fiol so perhaps he is the more important person, but if
you let me know the name of your cookbook, I'll buy a copy. .
I've been to Mexico three times so far and when I return, I'll have a
different perspective from the knowledge I've gained from Bayless, Bourdain,
Zimern, and other white people that showed me what to look for. I should
also thank the one Mexican cab driver in Tijuana that took us to a good
restaurant so we could mingle with other tourists.
George Leppla
> virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz wrote:
>>They don't *need* to be hot when you're desperate...and the way you're
>>grasping at straws shows your desperation more and more. You've already
>>admitted to your racism, and now you've announced your sexist double
>>standard to the world. Are you going to attack the Jews now, or will the
>>gays be your next target?
>
> Why are you taking this so personally? All I ever said was that talented
> Mexican chefs are more deserving of my money and praise than Rick Bayless.
> Thanks to you and others, I can add the Two Hot Tamales to my boycott
> list. Is
> that what your crusade set out to accomplish?
FWIW... when I go to a restaurant, I don't care how much the chef makes,
where he/she is from or where they were trained. I don't care if they have
a cookbook or a TV show or what their political leanings are or what
nationality the workers in the kitchen are.
I go to a restaurant to have good food at what I feel is a reasonable price.
The restaurant that does that is "deserving of my money and praise".....
everything else may be interesting, but immaterial.
George L
notbob
> Rather than despise Bayless, why not take advantage of what he has done?
Which is what? Treat his audience like 4 year olds? Rip off ppl who
buy his merchandise? Stroke his own ego rather than actully instruct
in how to cook? The guy is a simpering dirtbag and can kiss my ass.
As for this whole Mexican vs Gringo chef nonsense, I hafta agree there
is a dearth of Latino cooks on any network. The last one I remember
seeing was Zerela Martinez, a female guest on Julia, about 20 yrs
ago. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for fair play by the media.
And quit knocking Taco Bell. Those who do have probably never had
cheap Mexican peasant fare. I'm from NorCal, which is about 30%
Mexican, by now. I've tasted worse than Taco Bell at local taquerias,
those frequented by the Mexican working class, those who by quantity
over quality. Those places can serve up some real crap, believe me.
The only difference between a lot of TB dishes and crummy taquerias is
the spices and prices. At least TB doesn't use TONS of rice as cheap
filler. I'll take a TB Burrito Supreme over some of the crappy
burritos served in Mex gip joints, anytime.
Now, a good taqueria, that's a whole different ballgame. No contest,
so don't even go there. But, just because a place is owned and
staffed by Mexicans doesn't mean they can't pump out pure garbage just
as effectively as any gringo scarf n' barf mega chain.
nb
TammyM
<snip>
> I'm not some Bayless fanboy; on television I think the guy comes across as
> smarmy and creepy.
You know, I thought that too, until I saw him on Top Chef Masters. The
guy comes across as just a kind, considerate, lovely man. I'll watch
his PBS shows with a different feeling now. He can also cook the pants
off anyone, from what I've seen. Anecdotally, Michael Chiarello comes
across as a pompous, self-important, jerk. A talented cook, to be sure,
but a primo a$$hole
> But I am objective enough to recognize his culinary
> talents, which is something you seem completely unable to do -- so you're
> blind in more ways than one.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see". Enough said.
TammyM
Nancy2
> On 8-Aug-2009, "Michael \"Dog3\"" <don't...@donttell.huh> wrote:
>
> > I haven't watched the Food Network, except when channel flipping, in I
> > couldn't tell you how long. I am no longer a fan of the network. I can
>
> I too have lost interest in their programming, with the exception of Good
> Eats - it is the only show on FN that I have watched start-to-finish in a
> very long time.
> --
> Change Cujo to Juno in email address.
Well, I watch Dinner Impossible, the new Challenges, ICA, Ace of Cakes
and Chopped. Tonight, I'm going to watch Chef vs. City for the first
time but Sanchez and Cositino aren't two of my favorite chefs, for
sure.
N.
Christine Dabney
>As for this whole Mexican vs Gringo chef nonsense, I hafta agree there
>is a dearth of Latino cooks on any network. The last one I remember
>seeing was Zerela Martinez, a female guest on Julia, about 20 yrs
>ago. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for fair play by the media.
You guys are out of the loop, bigtime. LOL
Check out Daisy, on the Food Network. She started on PBS.. She is
from Puerto Rico, I think... I first heard about her from Jason
Perlow, who was one of the founders of eGullet.. He was a big
supporter of her, and helped her get where she is now. She is doing
authentic food.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Christine Dabney
>You know, I thought that too, until I saw him on Top Chef Masters. The
>guy comes across as just a kind, considerate, lovely man. I'll watch
>his PBS shows with a different feeling now. He can also cook the pants
>off anyone, from what I've seen. Anecdotally, Michael Chiarello comes
>across as a pompous, self-important, jerk. A talented cook, to be sure,
>but a primo a$$hole
I totally agree, Tammy.
And he is on Twitter. A few weeks ago..maybe a month or so ago, he
told everyone about an accident that a server in his restaurant had.
He was so involved with it..and he showed such compassion ...and
warmth with the whole situation. I would be proud to be his employee,
if I had a boss like him.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Chemiker
>Find me "one credible mexican culinary expert," racist. I'm waiting. Have
>you personally ever even BEEN to Mexico? Or are you just one of those
>"homeland" posers with a sum total of ZERO first-hand experience
Injecting humor:
Some years back I was visiting a friend in the Rio Grande Valley and
we took our families into Mexico for some roast kid (cabrito). With
the meat came bowls of "drunken beans", much like those served in
Texas. In my daughter's bean bowl floated a big dead cockroach,
well cooked. When she brought the problem to the waiter's attention,
he removed the bowl and returned with (the same? another?) bowl
of those beans, sans cockroach.
Daughter did not eat it.....
Alex
notbob
> Check out Daisy, on the Food Network. She started on PBS.. She is
> from Puerto Rico, I think...
Is she still on? I think not. I do recall seeing a couple of her
eps, but c'mon, it's not like she ran for seasons and had her work
promoted like Rick the Dick. I seem to recall a Cuban fellow that ran
a short time, but not sure.
Like Bourdain says, Latinos make up 60% of the US resto trade, but you
don't see 'em. It's not like the food is not popular. Salsa is now
more popular than ketchup. But there are no REAL cooking programs
about latin cuisine.
When was the last time you saw an episode on how to make authentic
pozole? Birria? Carnitas? Ceviche? I watched cooking shows
religiously for 20 yrs. I never have. Only Brayless came close.
Unfortunately, only close enough to tease you into buying his rip-off
merchandise. Even the web offers only crap. WTF is Enchilada style
lasagne? Bah! ...humbug.
nb
Christine Dabney
>On 2009-08-14, Christine Dabney <arti...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Is she still on? I think not. I do recall seeing a couple of her
>eps, but c'mon, it's not like she ran for seasons and had her work
>promoted like Rick the Dick. I seem to recall a Cuban fellow that ran
>a short time, but not sure.
Yes, she is still on. She is premiering her second season this year.
I have seen the ads for it.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com