Brining and barding
Paul M. Cook
salt pork on the breast and legs) it as well? Would the salt pork be too
much combined with the brine?
Pau;
Giusi
"Paul M. Cook" ha scritto nel messaggio
>I you brined a turkey would it be overkill to bard (lay strips of bacon or
> > salt pork on the breast and legs) it as well? Would the salt pork be too
> > much combined with the brine?
Try and let us know... I wouldn't do it because you don't need to. Why
complicate good food? I much prefer skin cooked dry.
Paul M. Cook
"Giusi" <deco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7lvddbF...@mid.individual.net...
The reason I ask is I don't want to ruin Thanksgiving which would be a
bummer. I'd prefer some input first. I am inclined not to do it but my
co-chef is pushing me to do it. We can't do two turkeys.
Paul
George
fantastic result by simply roasting the turkey (or chicken) breast side
down for 3/4 of the time and then rotating it brest up to finish.
Becca
George, I agree about roasting the turkey upside down, then rotating the
turkey breast side up. It browns all of the skin, which I like. Sorry,
but I disagree about brining. Brining hyrates the flesh of the bird
making it moist and tender, plus it carries the seasonings all the way
to the bone.
Becca
Paul M. Cook
"Becca" <be...@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:7m02lbF...@mid.individual.net...
After brining a bird some years back according to Alton Brown's technique, I
will never not brine a bird again. I have done the BSD technique and it was
OK, a huge PITA to rotate the bird at the end of cooking so the breast side
could brown. The flavors you get from brining are incredible.
But I guess nobody has an answer to the question.
Paul
Lynn from Fargo
HELP!
My Turkey Day cooking "partner" is buying a heritage turkey and wants
to brine it. OK by me but neither one of us has ever done that.
Problem is, she's got a recipe for an Italian seasoning she wants to
use. I really dislike most "Italian" seasoning mixtures except with
traditional Italian dishes. (Sorry, Giusi et al !) The thought of
turkey and oregano in the same sentence makes me crazy. Sage, a touch
of rosemary, chervil and a lot of basil - fine! Oregano, marjoram,
thyme . . . gack!
What should I do? I am USUALLY the "lead" cook in this 20+ year
partnership, but my friend is getting better every year and this year
is a little fragile (nasty divorce, philandering ex etc.) Should I
just keep my mouth shut? Will the oregano etc sabotage "my" gravy ?
Am I just being a control freak? I will be doing most of the sides.
Should they match the Italian theme?
Lynn in Fargo
up to her axx in cookbooks and food magazines with a three page list
of possibilities that's still growing!
brooklyn1
Brining being a form of pickling is a good method for
seasoning/flavoring (similar corning beef) but salt is a dessicant and
brine will remove moisture from animal flesh same as it does from a
cucumber... part of how salt preserves meat is that it removes
moisture. By merely soaking the brine will not penetrate into the
flesh more than a millimeter or two, so unless the brine is injected
it's truly an exercise in futility. The best way to cook chicken (or
any meat) for ultimate moistness is to cook at the correct temperature
by the proper method and for the correct time. Previously frozen meat
will always cook up dryer than meat that has never been frozen... most
of today's poultry has been frozen so proper cooking is all that is
left. If you have a fresh kill market available that is probably your
best bet for flavorful moist poultry... when I was a kid buying birds
live was the only choice. And free range poultry is pure BS too...
unless it was still walking when you picked it out and killed on the
spot right before your eyes it can't be free range... actually the
dead poultry at the stupidmarket is darn close to mystery meat. I
have neighbors within a five minute walk with a small chicken
operation, they sell eggs and chickens as available, but because they
have so small an operation they are not USDA inspected so I won't buy.
George
I like the taste of turkey. Brining makes me think someone just put
junky big box quality sandwich meat on my plate.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
<3ef03ffa-fa85-411e...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Lynn from Fargo <lynn...@i29.net> wrote:
> What should I do? I am USUALLY the "lead" cook in this 20+ year
> partnership, but my friend is getting better every year and this year
> is a little fragile (nasty divorce, philandering ex etc.) Should I
> just keep my mouth shut? Will the oregano etc sabotage "my" gravy ?
> Am I just being a control freak? I will be doing most of the sides.
> Should they match the Italian theme?
I would shut your mouth, smile, and hope for the best. Either it
will turn out surprisingly well, or it won't and you can rethink next
year's menu. I wouldn't worry about matching the theme for the rest of
the meal. She's having a hard time, let her do her thing and, if you
must, roast a turkey breast or legs at home in the way you like.
Regards,
Ranee @ Arabian Knits
"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"Giusi" <deco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I much prefer skin cooked dry.
I agree. Crisp skin is the best. One year, my MIL took all the skin
off the turkey and tossed it in the stock pot before anyone had a chance
to have any. I'm not sure I've forgiven her for that.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> And I think all of the brining stuff is way overrated. You can get a
> fantastic result by simply roasting the turkey (or chicken) breast side
> down for 3/4 of the time and then rotating it brest up to finish.
I roast ours breast side up with no brining and not only is it juicy
and tender, but it has converted non-turkey eaters. I put chopped
rosemary under the skin, rub it inside and out with salt and pepper, put
an onion (chopped), a few sprigs of rosemary and a lemon on the inside
after sprinkling the whole thing with the juice from the lemon. Then I
cook it on high heat for a rather short time. Crisp skin, juicy meat
and great gravy made with the drippings, some bourbon and thyme.
We had a chaplain and his family over last year and they brought duck
because they don't particularly care for turkey. They took a "thank
you" portion of the turkey to be polite and ended up eating a ton with
the rest of us. Then, they called me a month later to find out how I
made it so they could replicate it for their Christmas.
Nancy2
> My Turkey Day cooking "partner" is buying a heritage turkey and wants
> to brine it. OK by me but neither one of us has ever done that.
I brined a turkey once and it was so salty we could hardly eat it. I
followed a recommended fairly low proportion of salt/water, didn't let
it brine too long, and it still was damn near inedible. I'll never
brine another one; I don't see the purpose.
N.
Dan Abel
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> But I guess nobody has an answer to the question.
You've got to be kidding me, Paul! According to my time stamp, you
posted this request yesterday, *barely* yesterday, with 28 minutes left
in the day. Now, at the crack of dawn, (8:21AM), you are complaining
that nobody has answered your question?
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Dan Abel
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
I don't really know the answer to your question, but I can't imagine
bacon ruining anything.
Many years ago I worked with a lady who had done a lot of cooking. I'm
not sure she was a really good cook, but with a couple of husbands and
four grown kids, she had the experience part. (She made wonderful
Christmas cookies which she brought in to share every year.) She told
me a story about her last turkey for Thanksgiving. She had been told
about putting bacon on the breast to keep it moist, and decided to try
that. So she put some on, and after checking it, way before the turkey
was close to done, the bacon was done and needed to come off. OK, and
it was the cook's treat, so she and the other cook at it. Then they put
more bacon on. This happened several times. The two of them ate a
pound of bacon! The bacon was good, and the turkey was good. Neither
had a really big appetite for dinner after eating all that bacon, but
they were happy.
Paul M. Cook
"Dan Abel" <da...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-BA2D80....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> In article <hdeob8$pd5$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
>
>
>> But I guess nobody has an answer to the question.
>
> You've got to be kidding me, Paul! According to my time stamp, you
> posted this request yesterday, *barely* yesterday, with 28 minutes left
> in the day. Now, at the crack of dawn, (8:21AM), you are complaining
> that nobody has answered your question?
Dan, what is the point of living in a have it now society if in fact you
cannot have it now? I feel so entitled.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Lynn from Fargo" <lynn...@i29.net> wrote in message
news:3ef03ffa-fa85-411e...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Go to youtube.com and do a search on "romancing the bird" by Alton Brown. I
will never not use his method when preparing a turkey ever again. The
results are heavenly.
Paul
Paul M. Cook
"Nancy2" <nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:b3791a4a-2979-4b49...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
------
Odd, the times I have brined using vegetable stock and other flavorings as
per Alton Brown, the results were not in the least salty. The salt helps to
change the osmotic gradient which draws the flavored liquid into the bird as
it pulls water from it. Then you get a deep carmelly and crisp skin. You
can YouTube the video of "Romancing the Bird."
Paul
Christine Dabney
wrote:
>
>Go to youtube.com and do a search on "romancing the bird" by Alton Brown. I
>will never not use his method when preparing a turkey ever again. The
>results are heavenly.
>
>Paul
>
A heritage turkey doesn't need brining. The flavor and juiciness have
not been bred out of them.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
King's Crown
"Lynn from Fargo" <lynn...@i29.net> wrote in message
news:3ef03ffa-fa85-411e...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
I did a big herby brine for the first time last year. What a pain in the
butt for little results. I got a giant bag from William Sonoma and made my
own brine. It smelled wonderful, but for all the trouble the turkey had
very little if any flavor from it. I wouldn't do it again. My point is
there probably won't be much flavor from the Italian brine. Don't worry
about it.
Lynne
Paul M. Cook
"Christine Dabney" <arti...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:96kmf5tmfmu5moved...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:32:55 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Go to youtube.com and do a search on "romancing the bird" by Alton Brown.
>>I
>>will never not use his method when preparing a turkey ever again. The
>>results are heavenly.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
> A heritage turkey doesn't need brining. The flavor and juiciness have
> not been bred out of them.
I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common technique for
decades before they bred turkeys into what they became.
Paul
dsi1
I'll always brine a turkey in just salt and water. As an important
bonus, I can do a rapid defrost by letting the turkey soak in the salt
water solution at room temperature. I've tried a layer of bacon and
quickly abandoned that since it wasn't worth the trouble and bacon
flavored turkey is goofy anyway. Basting ain't worth the trouble either.
I'll shoot the bird with cooking spray - it's faster and less messy.
The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
the roasting pan.
It is important to monitor the temperature of the bird. I have a remote
temperature probe thingie but you can use a meat thermometer.
It takes me less than 2 hours to cook a turkey. My mother took all
morning to cook hers. It was shocking to me how fast I was able to roast
a turkey. I thought I was doing something wrong - but I wasn't.
Christine Dabney
wrote:
>I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
>always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common technique for
>decades before they bred turkeys into what they became.
>
>Paul
>
Premium free range turkeys are not the same as heritage turkeys.
Heritage turkeys are the old breeds. And I have done a LOT of
reading on heritage turkeys, and the consensus that came out of
discussions is that they really don't need it one iota. The flavor of
a heritage turkey is marvelous on it's own, and the texture and
juiciness are not improved by brining...The texture and juiciness is
wonderful already in those birds. Why mess with perfection?
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Paul M. Cook
Well they brined those babies way back when they were just called turkeys
and not heritage turkeys. I'd have to taste both to know what I like.
Books don't convey much flavor other than paper.
Paul
Christine Dabney
wrote:
>Books don't convey much flavor other than paper.
>
>Paul
>
These weren't books. These were folks cooking the heritage turkeys
within the last year or so. From blogs, articles, etc. Not
books..real people.
Again, try a heritage turkey on it's own. It doesn't need
anything...really. It is the turkey our ancestors ate and raved
about.. and I don't think our ancestors brined.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Steve Pope
>These weren't books. These were folks cooking the heritage turkeys
>within the last year or so. From blogs, articles, etc. Not
>books..real people.
>Again, try a heritage turkey on it's own. It doesn't need
>anything...really. It is the turkey our ancestors ate and raved
>about.. and I don't think our ancestors brined.
Okay so yesterday's NYT had a recipe for "dry brined" turkey.
(They recommmended a heritage breed but it was not required.)
That's an oxymoron correct? If you are salting or koshering
the turkey, well fine, but it does not count as "brined" does it?
Unless there is liquid brine?
Or am I a hopeless absolutist? :-)
Steve
Christine Dabney
(Steve Pope) wrote:
>Okay so yesterday's NYT had a recipe for "dry brined" turkey.
>(They recommmended a heritage breed but it was not required.)
>That's an oxymoron correct? If you are salting or koshering
>the turkey, well fine, but it does not count as "brined" does it?
>Unless there is liquid brine?
>
>Or am I a hopeless absolutist? :-)
>
>
>Steve
Yes you are. :)
A dry brine is just pre-salting a few days in advance. Judy Rodgers of
Zuni Cafe is a big proponent of this, and so is Russ Parsons, of the
LA Times.
It does form a brine of sorts...as the salt liquefies..and then is
reabsorbed into the flesh. Yes, it draws out fluids from the bird,
but then they are reabsorbed. It does take a few days to do this.
And the results are much, much better than wet brining.
This is my soapbox, Steve. I am a big fan of dry brining, aka as
pre-salting...
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
sf
wrote:
>I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
>always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common t
I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
sf
>I'll always brine a turkey in just salt and water.
Why bother? If you want salt and water, buy it injected.
sf
>The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
>whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird.
That's not true.
>I no longer
>cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
>the roasting pan.
>
>It is important to monitor the temperature of the bird. I have a remote
>temperature probe thingie but you can use a meat thermometer.
>
>It takes me less than 2 hours to cook a turkey. My mother took all
>morning to cook hers. It was shocking to me how fast I was able to roast
>a turkey. I thought I was doing something wrong - but I wasn't.
Try doing your bird in the Weber. OMG. So good! Brown all over and
juicy as all get out. Now that I don't have a Weber, I do it in the
oven and they're juicy, just not as deep brown. I don't go by that
long and slow method either. I cook it fast.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> Well they brined those babies way back when they were just called turkeys
> and not heritage turkeys.
Evidence? I read old cookbooks and old literature which mentions
food and have never read that people brined their turkeys or any other
poultry. Where was this done and by whom?
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
wrote:
> The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
> whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
> cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
> the roasting pan.
That is a fallacy. We have done it almost every year for the past 12
(two years we had birds cooked by others), and we will do it again this
year.
brooklyn1
>
>I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
>turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
>was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
>created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
>discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
Absolutely... and the same applies to a good deal of posters with many
other foods... it's obvious they just make up stuff so they'll get
some money's worth from their keyboards.
brooklyn1
>
>> The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
>> whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
>> cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
>> the roasting pan.
>
Paul M. Cook
"sf" <s...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:t6iof5pqp3oa69l63...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:31:06 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
>>always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common t
>
> I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
> turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
> was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
> created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
> discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
Or perhaps nasty old bitches just have no taste and couldn't tell wine from
kool-aid and need an excuse to act like an ass to strangers for pleasure?
Occam's razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. I'm going
with that.
Paul
dsi1
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:12:18 -1000, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll always brine a turkey in just salt and water.
>
> Why bother? If you want salt and water, buy it injected.
>
I like to buy the cheap house brand bird on special at Safeway. Those
tend to be unmolested. Also I'll typically need for a quick defrost.
dsi1
I have done a turkey in a Kamado but these days, all I got is a oven. No
Weber for me. :-(
Paul M. Cook
"brooklyn1" <grave...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6epof5lfklk14160f...@4ax.com...
Of course Sheldon, it must be so tough living in a world where you have to
tolerate those who are just so beneath yourself. I suggest you start your
own newsgroup, leave this one behind, and moderate it just so you and the
chosen few can enjoy the purity of your own talents and leave us riff raff
to our own devices?
Paul
dsi1
> In article <QjQKm.7051$rE5....@newsfe08.iad>, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
>> whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
>> cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
>> the roasting pan.
>
> That is a fallacy. We have done it almost every year for the past 12
> (two years we had birds cooked by others), and we will do it again this
> year.
Well, it's my fallacy and I'm sticking to it! :-) I think we just have
differing ideas on what is overcooked. You might call me a slave to my
thermometer. Are you aware of anybody else roasting the turkey legs
separately? I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one doing this.
dsi1
I'm sorry, I just can't believe anything you say. :-)
Paul M. Cook
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:11:24 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Books don't convey much flavor other than paper.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
> These weren't books. These were folks cooking the heritage turkeys
> within the last year or so. From blogs, articles, etc. Not
> books..real people.
I'd love to try one. I know my mother's father always served wild turkeys
because they were everywhere in Upstate NY and she said they tasted a bit
gamey and strong. Not that that flavor profile offends me. Personally I am
all for getting back to the old ways and more natural foods. Chicken as it
is tastes like crap and beef is just disgusting - even what they serve at
fine steak houes just is not the same as it used to be just 10 years ago
> Again, try a heritage turkey on it's own. It doesn't need
> anything...really. It is the turkey our ancestors ate and raved
> about.. and I don't think our ancestors brined.
I'll pass this time as I have a free range on reserve. Next year I just
may, the cost is about the same.
Paul
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
dsi1 <ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
> Ran�e at Arabian Knits wrote:
> > In article <QjQKm.7051$rE5....@newsfe08.iad>, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
> >> whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
> >> cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
> >> the roasting pan.
> >
> > That is a fallacy. We have done it almost every year for the past 12
> > (two years we had birds cooked by others), and we will do it again this
> > year.
>
> Well, it's my fallacy and I'm sticking to it! :-) I think we just have
> differing ideas on what is overcooked. You might call me a slave to my
> thermometer. Are you aware of anybody else roasting the turkey legs
> separately? I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one doing this.
I don't cook to the thermometer. I know that's heresy nowadays, but
we don't like the results of cooking meat to such high temperatures. I
don't want my poultry pink, but even the recommended temperatures for
poultry are too high by 5 or 10 degrees, in my opinion, and render them
dry and rough.
Paul M. Cook
"dsi1" <ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message
news:lc_Km.23730$Wf2....@newsfe23.iad...
> Ran�e at Arabian Knits wrote:
>> In article <QjQKm.7051$rE5....@newsfe08.iad>, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The dirty little secret about turkeys is that you cannot cook a bird
>>> whole without overcooking or undercooking parts of the bird. I no longer
>>> cook a whole bird but will cut off the leg with the thigh and lay it on
>>> the roasting pan.
>>
>> That is a fallacy. We have done it almost every year for the past 12
>> (two years we had birds cooked by others), and we will do it again this
>> year.
>
> Well, it's my fallacy and I'm sticking to it! :-) I think we just have
> differing ideas on what is overcooked. You might call me a slave to my
> thermometer. Are you aware of anybody else roasting the turkey legs
> separately? I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one doing this.
No, I've done it that way too before. Not on the holiday though because I
like presenting the bird so appearance matters. But yes, breast meat is dry
before the dark meat is done which is why I use a foil "shield" to cover the
breast meat. It evens out the cooking. And I also stopped stuffing
turkeys. It adds enormously to the cook time and makes for a really dry
bird. But this is why the co-chef wantd to try barding because the layer of
fat seasons and moistens the breast and prevents dryness.
Paul
dsi1
> I don't cook to the thermometer. I know that's heresy nowadays, but
> we don't like the results of cooking meat to such high temperatures. I
> don't want my poultry pink, but even the recommended temperatures for
> poultry are too high by 5 or 10 degrees, in my opinion, and render them
> dry and rough.
Sound like you cook a great turkey. I think more people should use a
thermometer but it's great that you're able to work without one.
Paul M. Cook
"Ran�e at Arabian Knits" <arabia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:arabianknits-A584...@news.rainierconnect.com...
Most sources say 180 is a must but I've simply nevr cooked that long. I
take it out at about 145 and cover it and let it rest. Finish temp is
usually 155. No fatalities yet.
Paul
Bob Muncie
I agree with you Renee. I use a thermometer for only a couple of things.
I also think the food temps recommended for a couple of things are a
bit excessive on the side of safety. Most other items are done by smell,
color, and time. I've been doing the home cooking now for 40 years. I
haven't made anyone sick yet.
For example, I pull pork out of the cooking period when 150F ~ 155F. and
poultry (including turkey), come out when the legs are mobile, and no
red tinted juices still coming out when poked with a toothpick.
My only concern this time of year is the stuffing. But I do make sure
the Turkey is not refrigerator cold prior to cooking, and that the
sausage in the stuffing is completely cooked. But it still bothers me.
OTOH, I can't imagine making a turkey without a good stuffing. And no
mater what anyone says, stuffing is much superior to dressing. However
for those attending, I always make too much stuffing material, and
usually have a 2QT baking dish of dressing to bake on the side for
those that did not want the stuffing.
Bob
dsi1
>
> No, I've done it that way too before. Not on the holiday though because I
> like presenting the bird so appearance matters. But yes, breast meat is dry
> before the dark meat is done which is why I use a foil "shield" to cover the
> breast meat. It evens out the cooking. And I also stopped stuffing
> turkeys. It adds enormously to the cook time and makes for a really dry
> bird. But this is why the co-chef wantd to try barding because the layer of
> fat seasons and moistens the breast and prevents dryness.
I'm more of a practical guy so I'll hack those turkey legs off for any
holiday. You're right that stuffing the bird will increase the cooking
time. I never do that. My mother took many hours to cook her stuffed
bird, and it was your standard dry turkey as recommend by the cookbooks
at the time. OTOH presentation and tradition is important.
The truth of the matter is that I'd do just about anything to be able to
eat my mom's dried turkey again! :-)
>
> Paul
>
>
Ophelia
> The truth of the matter is that I'd do just about anything to be able
> to eat my mom's dried turkey again! :-)
You are a son to be proud of! She is/was a lucky lady:)
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
dsi1 <ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
> Ran�e at Arabian Knits wrote:
>
> > I don't cook to the thermometer. I know that's heresy nowadays, but
> > we don't like the results of cooking meat to such high temperatures. I
> > don't want my poultry pink, but even the recommended temperatures for
> > poultry are too high by 5 or 10 degrees, in my opinion, and render them
> > dry and rough.
>
> Sound like you cook a great turkey. I think more people should use a
> thermometer but it's great that you're able to work without one.
I think that not stuffing it, as another poster mentioned is a big
part of not having it over cooked.
dsi1
Sadly, it has been impossible for me to do this for over twenty years -
except in my dreams. The future is uncertain but no matter what it
brings, I'll alway consider myself lucky to have been raised by my
mother. It's my "ace in the hole" of this life. :-)
brooklyn1
>
>"brooklyn1" wrote in message
Sure didn't take long for the first prevaricating riff raff to emerge
from under his rock. LOL
merryb
>
> >> I'll always brine a turkey in just salt and water.
>
> > Why bother? If you want salt and water, buy it injected.
>
> I like to buy the cheap house brand bird on special at Safeway. Those
> tend to be unmolested. Also I'll typically need for a quick defrost.
I agree with you- brining definitely helps with the cheapo birds...
merryb
That's very nice! I'm lucky to still have my mom around, and I'm also
lucky because she is such a great person...
Dan Abel
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> "brooklyn1" <grave...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:6epof5lfklk14160f...@4ax.com...
> > sf wrote:
> >>
> >>I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
> >>turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
> >>was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
> >>created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
> >>discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
> >
> > Absolutely... and the same applies to a good deal of posters with many
> > other foods... it's obvious they just make up stuff so they'll get
> > some money's worth from their keyboards.
>
> Of course Sheldon, it must be so tough living in a world where you have to
> tolerate those who are just so beneath yourself.
What do you mean, Paul?
HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF!!!
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
Bob Muncie <bob.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My only concern this time of year is the stuffing. But I do make sure
> the Turkey is not refrigerator cold prior to cooking, and that the
> sausage in the stuffing is completely cooked. But it still bothers me.
> OTOH, I can't imagine making a turkey without a good stuffing. And no
> mater what anyone says, stuffing is much superior to dressing. However
> for those attending, I always make too much stuffing material, and
> usually have a 2QT baking dish of dressing to bake on the side for
> those that did not want the stuffing.
I like bread stuffing, but my husband does not care for it. I
started making a wild rice stuffing instead, but occasionally make bread
stuffing as well. Now, I just make it as dressing on the side, but use
turkey fat and stock in it, which helps imitate the flavor of it cooked
in the bird.
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
"Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote:
> Most sources say 180 is a must but I've simply nevr cooked that long. I
> take it out at about 145 and cover it and let it rest. Finish temp is
> usually 155. No fatalities yet.
>
> Paul
So, that's more than 5-10 degrees. :-) I was just swagging it. I
know, I don't cook it to recommended temperatures. Who could eat food
like that?
Rob
Do you set up dolls at your Thanksgiving table, moron?
Rob
Bob Muncie
I'd be willing to bet my stuffing in the neck cavity beats any dressing,
anywhere, hands down. I needed to work in the "hands" thing :-)
Seriously though, stuffing always beats dressing for flavor. But if I
did not stuff, I'd like to think I'd make the dressing your way.
I also like rice but the only time I use it for stuffing, is when I do
the Cornish game hens. I don't know why that is, but I can say the only
"great stuffing" is a sausage/bread stuffing from making a turkey dinner.
Dressing is good pretty much any time of year, but stuffing is the best.
Bob
Bob Muncie
No, but I do know how to KF idiots.
Unless you change your email, you will now be speaking to the hand.
Bob Muncie
Did I mention this is the third time I killed you, and you still keep
coming back with a different email?
Who's the moron here... Assuming you are a sock, are you athletic and a
jock strap for a change? That would be different.
Otherwise, you are just pathetic, well, really you are pathetic anyways.
You will need a new email address if you want me see a post of yours.
Don't you get tired of having to go through the process of creating a
new email ID to just annoy someone else?
Again, you are KF'd.
Paul M. Cook
"Dan Abel" <da...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dabel-43A00B....@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
Oh I see. Never mind.
Paul
Bob Muncie
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:31:06 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
>> always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common t
>
> I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
> turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
> was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
> created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
> discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
>
Not trying to knock your remembrance of the event where you did the
brining thing, but my experience is just the opposite.
I've brined for the last three years, and pull the stuffed turkey when
at around 170F. I think the deciding factor is that they have been
fresh, and never frozen turkeys.
Since I started doing the brining a couple/three times a year, all
turkeys have been extremely juicy, non-pink, and pretty much perfect.
Breasts are not dry, and thighs are cooked through.
I am a convert for the process. Now if you want to discuss what goes in
a brine, that is a different matter. Tons of recipes out there.
Bob
Paul M. Cook
"Bob Muncie" <bob.m...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hdicgk$ifn$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
That was when I did my first brined bird. I was worried it was drying out
in the fridge since I brined it early. A poster said that's what you want
it to do and he was right. Never had a more delightfully crisp skin before
that. So now I let it rest after brining in the fridge for 24 hours. And
anybody who thinks the process is too much work just does not cook. It's
less work than stuffing a bird.
Paul
Bob Muncie
I don't want to blame peeps that haven't tried it yet, and I also don't
want to blame peeps that did not have a good experience when they did
try it. They had a not so good experience for a reason. Frozen bird,
brined for only 4 hours, etc., I have zero issues with someone saying
they did not have a good experience.
I would just want them to have a good experience. I would want them to
have a "perfect" turkey. That is not going to happen unless all the
stars align.
But I will say, brining works well for me. I've baked, broiled, and deep
fried. My favorite as this time is a traditional baked that is brined,
stuffed, and foiled so as to to not over brown.
But that's just me.
Bob
sf
<ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>I have done a turkey in a Kamado but these days, all I got is a oven. No
>Weber for me. :-(
AFAIC kamado and weber are about equal, so you knew what I meant about
deep brown and juicy. I also love that slight smoky flavor.
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
dsi1
I think it's a good idea to dry off your turkey in this way but I don't
usually have the time to do this. This works for steaks too. They'll be
better if you leave it uncovered in your fridge for a day or two. This
removes the surface moisture and it will take on a very nice appearance
when grilled. You'll probably have to adjust your cooking time since it
will also cook faster.
dsi1
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:18:49 -1000, dsi1
> <ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>
>> I have done a turkey in a Kamado but these days, all I got is a oven. No
>> Weber for me. :-(
>
> AFAIC kamado and weber are about equal, so you knew what I meant about
> deep brown and juicy. I also love that slight smoky flavor.
>
My father always used to smoke turkey and beef for Christmas. The funny
thing is that I can't remember what he used or his methods. He did hang
the meat from hooks and that's all I know that's about it. I've never
seen anybody else here do that kind of cooking, but it was tasty! The
meats had a deep reddish color because of the smoke.
sf
<ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>My father always used to smoke turkey and beef for Christmas. The funny
>thing is that I can't remember what he used or his methods. He did hang
>the meat from hooks and that's all I know that's about it. I've never
>seen anybody else here do that kind of cooking, but it was tasty! The
>meats had a deep reddish color because of the smoke.
He probably did it the "real way". I really do like the weber way
though.
Bob Muncie
Not trying to be mean... but do you know what the brining process is,
and what it accomplishes?
Has nothing with any drying of anything.
Not wanting an argument.
Just want props for a good way to cook a Turkey.
Brining helps. I know through experience. Between 8 to 12 turkeys I have
cooked since I started brining know that.
Steve Pope
>On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:26:00 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org
>>Or am I a hopeless absolutist? :-)
>Yes you are. :)
Thanks. Just checking. :-)
S.
Michael Siemon
Bob Muncie <bob.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
Drying _after extracting the bird from the brine (and rinsing it)_ for
at least a few hours helps to promote crisping/browning of the skin.
That said, this year I am going to try pre-salting (aka "dry brining"),
as I have had some great results with that for chicken over the last
year. I've had good results from brining turkeys for several years, but
while the bird is fine, the roasting juices do tend to be too salty for
use in gravy.
dsi1
I have done it for a few years. It plumps the turkey up. I don't
understand the process since in my mind, the salt water should dehydrate
the turkey. Instead it does the opposite.
>
> Has nothing with any drying of anything.
What Mr. Cook was saying is that a turkey left in a refrigerator
uncovered, will dry out, due to the low humidity environment. Having a
turkey skin that is dried like this will allow the skin to fry on the
bird and can give you a crispy skin as well as have a beautiful color.
>
> Not wanting an argument.
>
> Just want props for a good way to cook a Turkey.
>
> Brining helps. I know through experience. Between 8 to 12 turkeys I have
> cooked since I started brining know that.
Sounds like you should be an expert by now.
>
Bob Muncie
dsi1 - Brining a fresh turkey accomplishes making the turkey juiced, and
flavored in whatever manner you want. The flavors are only left to your
own imagination. I use peppers, bay leaves, etc. The ziplock bags that
are sized to actually brine a good size turkey should clue you in that
it actually something people do these days.
Is there a reason why you are not being a nice person to me?
Being an ass in general is one thing. To direct it towards an individual
is a personal thing.
Is there a reason why you are being an ass to me?
Bob
Not a big issue, but I also know you have been around for a while.
And if you want me to consider you an ass, thats okay. I just want to
know it.
~misfit~
> The salt helps to change the osmotic gradient which draws the
> flavored liquid into the bird as it pulls water from it.
Honestly, as an ex-biology student who really understands osmosis and also
as a cook and food preserver who brines onions and rollmops pre-pickling I
don't see how what you describe above is possible.
--
Cheers,
Shaun.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.
~misfit~
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:26:00 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org
>
>
>> Okay so yesterday's NYT had a recipe for "dry brined" turkey.
>> (They recommmended a heritage breed but it was not required.)
>> That's an oxymoron correct? If you are salting or koshering
>> the turkey, well fine, but it does not count as "brined" does it?
>> Unless there is liquid brine?
>>
>> Or am I a hopeless absolutist? :-)
>>
>>
>
> Yes you are. :)
>
> A dry brine is just pre-salting a few days in advance. Judy Rodgers of
> Zuni Cafe is a big proponent of this, and so is Russ Parsons, of the
> LA Times.
>
> It does form a brine of sorts...as the salt liquefies..and then is
> reabsorbed into the flesh. Yes, it draws out fluids from the bird,
> but then they are reabsorbed. It does take a few days to do this.
Call me thick but what's the point of drawing fluids out only to have them
go back in? Also, I still don't get how this works, osmotically speaking,
unless it's due to a breakdown of the cell walls / semi-permeable membranes
(also known as rotting).
> And the results are much, much better than wet brining.
>
> This is my soapbox, Steve. I am a big fan of dry brining, aka as
> pre-salting...
I pre-salt to remove water which can later allow better penetration of other
fluids once the salt/brine has been removed. I'd love to know what other
purpose it serves, and hear the science behind it.
--
George
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:31:06 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
>> always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common t
>
> I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
> turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
> was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
> created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
> discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
>
And I think it good a really big push about ten years ago when every
talking head and cooking show was advocating it as some sort of
religious experience.
As I said before I like the taste of unadulterated roasted turkey.
Brining turns something good into a flavored turkey like product that
belongs at that low prices everyday megamart for $0.69/lb
brooklyn1
>On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:35:51 -1000, dsi1
><ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>
>>My father always used to smoke turkey and beef for Christmas. The funny
>>thing is that I can't remember what he used or his methods. He did hang
>>the meat from hooks and that's all I know that's about it. I've never
>>seen anybody else here do that kind of cooking, but it was tasty! The
>>meats had a deep reddish color because of the smoke.
It's "reddish" because of the curing salts, same as smoked ham and
corned beef.
>He probably did it the "real way". I really do like the weber way
>though.
What "real way"? Smoked turkey is very common, just like smoked ham
every deli sells smoked turkey... turkey pastrami is everywhere.
ra...@vt.edu
> Honestly, as an ex-biology student who really understands osmosis and also
> as a cook and food preserver who brines onions and rollmops pre-pickling I
> don't see how what you describe above is possible.
The Alton Brown episode mentioned earlier in this thread explains
it. The epi is broken into multiple parts, but the explanation is
in this segment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zUEOnhF9OM
at about the 7 minute mark, if you don't have the patience to watch
the whole 10 minute segment.
I'll be smoking my turkey this year. I *may* brine it if I have
the time.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
Christine Dabney
<sore_n...@yahoo-nospam.com.au> wrote:
>Call me thick but what's the point of drawing fluids out only to have them
>go back in? Also, I still don't get how this works, osmotically speaking,
>unless it's due to a breakdown of the cell walls / semi-permeable membranes
>(also known as rotting).
>
>> And the results are much, much better than wet brining.
>>
>> This is my soapbox, Steve. I am a big fan of dry brining, aka as
>> pre-salting...
>
>I pre-salt to remove water which can later allow better penetration of other
>fluids once the salt/brine has been removed. I'd love to know what other
>purpose it serves, and hear the science behind it.
You just explained it yourself. ;) You allow better penetration of
the meat juices/salt solution...
I am trying to find something about it on the web, but I don't have
much time this morning...
But here is something from The Kitchen:
http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/food-science/how-and-why-to-preseason-your-meat-078902
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Nancy2
> "Nancy2" <nancy-doo...@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
>
> news:b3791a4a-2979-4b49...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > HELP!
> > My Turkey Day cooking "partner" is buying a heritage turkey and wants
> > to brine it. OK by me but neither one of us has ever done that.
>
> I brined a turkey once and it was so salty we could hardly eat it. I
> followed a recommended fairly low proportion of salt/water, didn't let
> it brine too long, and it still was damn near inedible. I'll never
> brine another one; I don't see the purpose.
>
> ------
>
> Odd, the times I have brined using vegetable stock and other flavorings as
> per Alton Brown, the results were not in the least salty. The salt helps to
> change the osmotic gradient which draws the flavored liquid into the bird as
> can YouTube the video of "Romancing the Bird."
>
> Paul
I roast turkey per Martha's Turkey 101, and it is perfect - moist
inside and a crispy skin outside. I don't see any reason to screw it
up.
N.
sf
<grave...@verizon.net> wrote:
>What "real way"?
the way people over in the bbq ngs advocate, not my version.
>Smoked turkey is very common, just like smoked ham
>every deli sells smoked turkey... turkey pastrami is everywhere.
I know.
Nancy2
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:31:06 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I'm sure that's the case but ABs technique just does not overwhelm. And I
> >always buy premium free range turkeys. Brining was a common t
>
> I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
> turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
> was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
> created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
> discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
>
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I'm with you, babe. My thoughts exactly. It became the "in" thing to
do a while ago, and I don't see the point, either. If you know how to
roast a turkey, you can do it without drying the bird out.
N.
Nancy2
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:12:18 -1000, dsi1 <d...@spamnet.com> wrote:
> >I'll always brine a turkey in just salt and water.
>
> Why bother? If you want salt and water, buy it injected.
>
> --
> I love cooking with wine.
> Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I'm sure the people who swear by brining turkey turn their noses up at
injected pork products.
N.
dsi1
> dsi1 - Brining a fresh turkey accomplishes making the turkey juiced, and
> flavored in whatever manner you want. The flavors are only left to your
> own imagination. I use peppers, bay leaves, etc. The ziplock bags that
> are sized to actually brine a good size turkey should clue you in that
> it actually something people do these days.
>
> Is there a reason why you are not being a nice person to me?
You must be under the mistaken impression that I disagree with anything
you have said. I do not.
>
> Being an ass in general is one thing. To direct it towards an individual
> is a personal thing.
>
> Is there a reason why you are being an ass to me?
>
> Bob
>
> Not a big issue, but I also know you have been around for a while.
>
> And if you want me to consider you an ass, thats okay. I just want to
> know it.
>
Don't worry about it Mr. Muncie, I usually rub people the wrong way.
>
>
Nancy2
> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <lc_Km.23730$Wf2.9...@newsfe23.iad>,
> > dsi1 <d...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>
> >> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
> >>> In article <QjQKm.7051$rE5.1...@newsfe08.iad>, dsi1 <d...@spamnet.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I use stock from simmering the giblets with onion and celery for most
of the liquid in my bread dressing - plus butter, of course, and the
usual seasonings. As far as I can tell, it's as good as or better
than stuffing from inside the bird (which tends to get gloppy from all
the juice). I like dressing baked separately until the bread cubes on
the top are crispy and buttery, and the rest of it will hold together
but isn't mushy. I put the cut up giblets in the dressing, too - very
tiny bits, to be sure.
Stuffing also has to be done at the last minute before you roast the
bird, so it's much easier to prepare the dressing separately, when you
have more time.
But, that's just me. A lot of preferences have to do with how one's
mom or grandmom did it, I think.
N.
Nancy2
> For example, I pull pork out of the cooking period when 150F ~ 155F. and
Pork for me would be overcooked if it's left in the oven until 150. I
take it out at 140. I don't mind if it's a faint pinkish color in the
center.
N.
RegForte
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>
>>The salt helps to change the osmotic gradient which draws the
>>flavored liquid into the bird as it pulls water from it.
>
>
> Honestly, as an ex-biology student who really understands osmosis and also
> as a cook and food preserver who brines onions and rollmops pre-pickling I
> don't see how what you describe above is possible.
There's some truth to that.
I've heard others criticize the standard explanation of brining
also. The idea that it's only simple osmosis at work is pretty suspect.
There's really more to it than that.
Take a look at this. It contains a critique of the standard
explanation of how brining works as well as some additional
info.
Cooking for Engineers
Brining by Michael Chu
<http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/70/Brining>
--
Reg
dsi1
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:45:55 -0800, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:35:51 -1000, dsi1
>> <ds...@humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote:
>>
>>> My father always used to smoke turkey and beef for Christmas. The funny
>>> thing is that I can't remember what he used or his methods. He did hang
>>> the meat from hooks and that's all I know that's about it. I've never
>>> seen anybody else here do that kind of cooking, but it was tasty! The
>>> meats had a deep reddish color because of the smoke.
>
> It's "reddish" because of the curing salts, same as smoked ham and
> corned beef.
As far as I know, he just used alaea salt which is a course salt with a
little red clay mixed in. He always used that stuff. However, the red
clay was not the coloring agent in the meat which was pretty vivid. My
guess is that the meat turns red from a heavy exposure to CO - carbon
monoxide. CO can be used to enhance the color of fish like ahi to give
it an appealing red color for sale. CO can also turn humans red - the
most obvious cue to CO poisoning is cherry red lips.
As far as this curing salt jazz goes, we don't have curing salt here.
I've looked. A friend in Texas was trying to procure some for me but
he's having some trouble. The guy at the Morton factory said it's just
salt with sugar and a little saltpeter mixed in and said to just use a
salt and sugar mixture.
sf
<arti...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>But here is something from The Kitchen:
>http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/food-science/how-and-why-to-preseason-your-meat-078902
Thanks for the link, Chris. My niece is newly engaged. She and her
fiance actually like to cook although they freely admit they're
learning, so I've been sending her links to interesting food blog
pages etc. I am sending this to her too.
sf
>As far as I know, he just used alaea salt which is a course salt with a
>little red clay mixed in. He always used that stuff. However, the red
>clay was not the coloring agent in the meat which was pretty vivid.
Maybe he prepared it like char su. That marinade makes meat red on
the outside.
dsi1
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:02:06 -1000, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com> wrote:
>
>> As far as I know, he just used alaea salt which is a course salt with a
>> little red clay mixed in. He always used that stuff. However, the red
>> clay was not the coloring agent in the meat which was pretty vivid.
>
> Maybe he prepared it like char su. That marinade makes meat red on
> the outside.
>
No marinade, just salt right before smoking. I don't think he used
pepper either. You're talking old school here! :-) I don't know what cut
of meat he used either but it was always the same boneless strips about
1.5" thick. It had a loose texture similar to chuck and was a tender
piece. I'll have to ask him about this when I see him.
sf
<nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 3:00�pm, Bob Muncie <bob.mun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My only concern this time of year is the stuffing. But I do make sure
>> the Turkey is not refrigerator cold prior to cooking,
How can a turkey ever remain refrigerator cold? It just doesn't
happen. ;)
>> and that the
>> sausage in the stuffing is completely cooked. But it still bothers me.
>> OTOH, I can't imagine making a turkey without a good stuffing.
I can't abide the thought of meat or even oysters in stuffing. I
prefer apples, water chestnuts... stuff like that.
>>And no
>> mater what anyone says, stuffing is much superior to dressing. �However
>> for those attending, I always make too much stuffing material, and
>> usually have a 2QT �baking dish of dressing to bake on the side for
>> those that did not want the stuffing.
>>
>> Bob- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I use stock from simmering the giblets with onion and celery for most
>of the liquid in my bread dressing - plus butter, of course, and the
>usual seasonings.
Oh, yeah baby! But you need to save some for extending pan drippings
into a boatload of gravy when the time comes.
>As far as I can tell, it's as good as or better
>than stuffing from inside the bird (which tends to get gloppy from all
>the juice). I like dressing baked separately until the bread cubes on
>the top are crispy and buttery, and the rest of it will hold together
>but isn't mushy. I put the cut up giblets in the dressing, too - very
>tiny bits, to be sure.
>
>Stuffing also has to be done at the last minute before you roast the
>bird, so it's much easier to prepare the dressing separately, when you
>have more time.
>
>But, that's just me. A lot of preferences have to do with how one's
>mom or grandmom did it, I think.
>
I prefer the flavor of dressing done inside the bird (and you're
right, it can be too moist for some people), but there's never enough
of it anyway so I do both and combine them to serve.
sf
>You must be under the mistaken impression that I disagree with anything
> you have said. I do not.
He gets this way when he's sleep deprived.
blake murphy
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:11:24 -0800, "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Books don't convey much flavor other than paper.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
> These weren't books. These were folks cooking the heritage turkeys
> within the last year or so. From blogs, articles, etc. Not
> books..real people.
>
> Again, try a heritage turkey on it's own. It doesn't need
> anything...really. It is the turkey our ancestors ate and raved
> about.. and I don't think our ancestors brined.
>
> Christine
but to be honest, many of our ancestors were damn glad to have anything to
eat, especially meat.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:26:00 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>>Okay so yesterday's NYT had a recipe for "dry brined" turkey.
>>(They recommmended a heritage breed but it was not required.)
>>That's an oxymoron correct? If you are salting or koshering
>>the turkey, well fine, but it does not count as "brined" does it?
>>Unless there is liquid brine?
>>
>>Or am I a hopeless absolutist? :-)
>>
>>
>>Steve
>
> Yes you are. :)
>
> A dry brine is just pre-salting a few days in advance. Judy Rodgers of
> Zuni Cafe is a big proponent of this, and so is Russ Parsons, of the
> LA Times.
>
> It does form a brine of sorts...as the salt liquefies..and then is
> reabsorbed into the flesh. Yes, it draws out fluids from the bird,
> but then they are reabsorbed. It does take a few days to do this.
>
> And the results are much, much better than wet brining.
>
> This is my soapbox, Steve. I am a big fan of dry brining, aka as
> pre-salting...
>
> Christine
i've heard of the dry-brining for beef, but not so much for poultry.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
> "Paul M. Kook" wrote:
>>
>>"brooklyn1" wrote in message
>>> sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I'd never heard of brining until I came to rfc and I've been eating
>>>>turkey all my life... let's say 50++ years. ;) I tried it once and
>>>>was unimpressed, so I don't bother with it. AFAIC it's a lot of fuss
>>>>created by people who don't cook so they will have something to
>>>>discuss and make others think they cook more than they actually do.
>>>
>>> Absolutely... and the same applies to a good deal of posters with many
>>> other foods... it's obvious they just make up stuff so they'll get
>>> some money's worth from their keyboards.
>>
>>Of course Sheldon, it must be so tough living in a world where you have to
>>tolerate those who are just so beneath yourself. I suggest you start your
>>own newsgroup, leave this one behind, and moderate it just so you and the
>>chosen few can enjoy the purity of your own talents and leave us riff raff
>>to our own devices?
>>
>
> Sure didn't take long for the first prevaricating riff raff to emerge
> from under his rock. LOL
or maybe it's pretty obvious that you suffer from free-ranging paranoia.
blake
dsi1
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:40:08 -1000, dsi1 <ds...@spamnet.com> wrote:
>
>> You must be under the mistaken impression that I disagree with anything
>> you have said. I do not.
>
> He gets this way when he's sleep deprived.
>
Thanks for the info! For a while, I thought I might be even more
annoying than I think I am. :-)
Ran�e at Arabian Knits
sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Oh, yeah baby! But you need to save some for extending pan drippings
> into a boatload of gravy when the time comes.
For real! I saw a recipe recently for gravy for six that called for
two cups of pan juices. That's it. We use about 12-16 cups of pan
juices, stock and bourbon (about a cup of the bourbon) to make our gravy
for 12--20. We like gravy.