Cooked rice observation

[spamtrap1888]

I see the wrangling continues. I can offer a factoid that may help.

We cook two kinds of rice: Calrose for Asian food, and basmati for
Indian food. We will cook a cup of either rice, raw, for each meal.

Not for the first time, my wife spontaneously commented on how much
fluffier the (long-grain) basmati rice cooked up compared to the
stubby grained calrose. A cup being a measure of volume, you will get
less rice in a cup of cooked basmati compared to a cup of calrose.

[Chemo]

and that's the way it is.

[sf]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not for the first time, my wife spontaneously commented on how much
> fluffier the (long-grain) basmati rice cooked up compared to the
> stubby grained calrose. A cup being a measure of volume, you will get
> less rice in a cup of cooked basmati compared to a cup of calrose.

I hate fluffy rice and that's *why* I like Calrose (which is medium
grained) and also short grained rice: . I want rice that compacts and
holds together in clumps... which I call clumpy rice.

I'm trying to get my brown rice cooking down now. I cooked a cup of
short grain (not medium grain) brown rice with 4 cups liquid tonight.
It was too wet for me after the rice cooker went off - so I had to let
it sit with the lid off and the rice cooker on for 15 minutes to dry
out. I'll try 3.5 cups liquid next time.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[Janet Bostwick]

Thanks for saying that, now I don't have to buy a rice cooker. I had
hoped that a cooker would magically solve my rice problems for me.
Janet US

[dsi1]

Japan and Korea favor short grain rice cooked in a sticky way. Chinese
style is long grain, non-clumpy rice.

I'm making some chili and I like to add some rice to make it easier to
eat with tortillas. I wish I had some long grain rice but all I have
short grain. Long grain would be better because it would be less mushy
but that's the breaks.

The Japanese want non-sticky, non-clumping, rice when making sushi. They
go through a lot of trouble to make short grain non-sticky i.e., they
used to cool the rice manually using a hand fan while constantly mixing
the rice. I suppose they could use long grain rice but I've never heard
of that being done.

[sf]

What did I say that discouraged you from buying a rice cooker? I love
mine and make perfect white rice in it. The trick is figuring out how
much water I want to use to make brown rice - it's not the rice
cookers fault that I f'ed up.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:31:57 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

>On 8/2/2012 12:53 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> I see the wrangling continues. I can offer a factoid that may help.
>>
>> We cook two kinds of rice: Calrose for Asian food, and basmati for
>> Indian food. We will cook a cup of either rice, raw, for each meal.
>>
>> Not for the first time, my wife spontaneously commented on how much
>> fluffier the (long-grain) basmati rice cooked up compared to the
>> stubby grained calrose. A cup being a measure of volume, you will get
>> less rice in a cup of cooked basmati compared to a cup of calrose.
>>
>
>Japan and Korea favor short grain rice cooked in a sticky way. Chinese
>style is long grain, non-clumpy rice.
>

My latest 'favorite' rice is a Korean brown 'Sweet' rice. That's
some gooey stuff if you give it just a hair too much water, but it
sure tastes good.

-snip-

>
>The Japanese want non-sticky, non-clumping, rice when making sushi. They
>go through a lot of trouble to make short grain non-sticky i.e., they
>used to cool the rice manually using a hand fan while constantly mixing
>the rice. I suppose they could use long grain rice but I've never heard
>of that being done.

What do you think of this method for 'perfect' Sushi rice cooking?
[aside from the liquid-- I love that stuff and make it up 4 batches at
a time]
http://www.food.com/recipe/minados-perfect-sushi-rice-119373#ixzz1oGy1YwUz

I've been using it with Thai and Californian sushi rice and it really
does give it that perfect stickiness for a neophyte sushi roller.

Jim

[Janet Bostwick]

I assumed that figuring out the amount of water was the key whatever
cooking method used. I can't get white long grain right, it always
has a center with a bite to it.
Janet US

[James Silverton]

This is in the nature of a real "follow-up" as Thunderbird calls it but
I had Tandoori lamb kebabs at a Persian Halal restaurant. They were
served with very long grain rice; half an inch I would say. What type of
rice is this since none of the rice I've ever bought has been so long?

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Krypsis]

Indeed, once you get familiar with the type of rice and the rice cooker,
you will instinctively know just how much water to add and the rice will
turn out perfect every time. We are currently using a mix of red rice
and Basmati. I've now worked out how much water to use and have no
problem producing nice fluffy rice just how I like it. Note, I do rinse
the rice at least three times before cooking.

--

Krypsis

[dsi1]

Looks about right. I have never heard of draining the rice for 30
minutes but what the heck, these guys are masters of rice. I was taught
to let the rice sit in the water for 20 minutes before cooking. Most
times I don't. I'm no master of rice. Mostly, I'm a slave of time.

I remember my auntie making sushi rice when I was a little kid. She used
a hand fan and a wooden mixing box. Back in the 60's, the sushi served
here was inari and maki sushi. The maki sushi always contained eel,
kanpyo, eggs, colored shrimp powder, and oddly enough - watercress.

I don't remember seeing nigiri sushi in Hawaii until the 70's. These
days it's pretty wild in the sushi world and I rarely see the maki sushi
as made 50 years ago.

[sf]

The starting numbers for white rice are 2 cups of liquid to one cup of
rice, but tweaking it to the firmness or fluffiness you prefer is
trial and error. I like mine "firm" vs "fluffy" (and definitely not
wet), so I short the water a little. That was the first time I'd
actually looked up the ratio for brown rice and was surprised by how
much liquid it said to use, but went with it anyway thinking I'd need
to cut it back the next time and I was right... but I was able to
"fix" the too wet problem w/o any trouble all it took was a little
time.

If you're just cooking for yourself or you and another person - use
the Galloping Gourmet's method which is a combination of boiling and
steaming. I used it for years until I got the rice cooker and still
use it when I'm not at home. The best part about it is *no measuring
is involved*. Just pour an amount of rice into the pot and cover it
with a huge amount of water. Think of a washing machine and one pair
of socks. Bring it to a boil (with some salt) and let it boil for
approx 10 minutes. As soon as it "pops", which looks like what you
described (cooked on the outside with a hard core), drain it well.
Put it back in the pot, covered, with the heat turned all the way down
for another 10 minutes. Voilą! Perfect rice every time.

If you ever decide to try a rice cooker (do you know anyone you can
borrow one from?), use the knuckle method. Put your finger into the
pot, measure the depth of rice on your finger and add enough water to
meet the same point on your finger when you touch it on top of the
rice.... of course, I add a little less because I like firmer rice.

This knuckle method is slightly different, but you'll get the idea.
http://www.chow.com/food-news/55256/how-to-measure-rice-proportions-with-your-finger/

[Steve Pope]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 07:52:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick

> I assumed that figuring out the amount of water was the key whatever
> cooking method used. I can't get white long grain right, it always
> has a center with a bite to it.

In my experience there are three possible reasons for this:

(1) The lid on the pot does not completely utterly seal it.
(2) The burner on the stove cannot be turned down low enough.
(3) Peeking.



Steve

[Janet Bostwick]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:12:09 -0500, Sqwertz <swe...@cluemail.compost>
wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 07:52:17 -0600, Janet Bostwick wrote:
>
>> I assumed that figuring out the amount of water was the key whatever
>> cooking method used. I can't get white long grain right, it always
>> has a center with a bite to it.
>

>For some reason the last three brands of white long grained rice I've
>used require simmering for 15 minutes (and then I let stand for
>another 5). Otherwise I get the al dente centers.
>
>Prior to these and for well over a decade my usual method was to
>simmer the rice for 5 and let sit for 15-20 and it always come out
>fine.
>
>I think maybe it had something to do with rice growing conditions last
>year, that maybe they had to dig into reserved of older rice. Looks
>like domestic rice production was down about 25% nationwide - mostly
>due to Arkansas an Texas. But imports were up to make up for that,
>
>-sw

That's nice to know. I was fine until about last December and then I
started having problems. I'll try your timing and see what happens.
Thanks
Janet US

[Janet Bostwick]

>for another 10 minutes. Voil�! Perfect rice every time.
snip
I've never heard of that method. It sounds crazy, but crazy enough to
work. I've been doing the 2to 1 method for a zillion years and never
had a problem until now. I'm glad I mentioned it.
thx
Janet US

[Janet Bostwick]

#2 is possible. My burners are going wonky.
Janet US

[Gary]

This tread is amusing. I've never had a problem cooking rice. I just follow
package directions and ... a good batch every time. Once the cooking time
is up, I *do* turn off the low heat and leave it sit with lid on for another
10-15 minutes or until I'm ready to use it.


Gary

[Brooklyn1]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:33:45 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org (Steve
Pope) wrote:

There's nothing easier to cook than rice... a billion Chinese coolies
can cook rice.

[dsi1]

Must be a cultural thing. I learned to cook rice when I was a kid. It's
making mashed potatoes that's maddeningly frustrating for me. :-)

[sf]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:14:54 +1000, Krypsis <kry...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

Just curious... do you use one of those electronic (fuzzy logic) rice
cookers now? Mine is as old as Methuselah and still chugging along,
but I should probably start bracing myself to look for a replacement
one of these years. I don't need any bells & whistles, so I'll just
get the most basic model I can find in a store. The features on this
one are "on" and "keep warm", but to be perfectly honest - I'd be
happy with a simple on/off type if I could find one.

[sf]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:08:18 -0600, Janet Bostwick

> >for another 10 minutes. Voilą! Perfect rice every time.

> snip
> I've never heard of that method. It sounds crazy, but crazy enough to
> work. I've been doing the 2to 1 method for a zillion years and never
> had a problem until now. I'm glad I mentioned it.
> thx

From a previous comment, it sounds like your stove is to blame - not
you. That method might tide you over until you have a more reliable
stove.

[dsi1]

The problem with the new basic model rice cooker is that they pretty
much all have a keep warm feature. That's OK except that it'll stay on
that setting until the cows come home or you pull the plug. My $12 rice
cooker is fine except there's no off switch. There's probably a way to
bypass the warm feature so it works like a plain old rice cooker.

[Gary]

dsi1 wrote:
>
> The problem with the new basic model rice cooker is that they pretty
> much all have a keep warm feature. That's OK except that it'll stay on
> that setting until the cows come home or you pull the plug. My $12 rice
> cooker is fine except there's no off switch. There's probably a way to
> bypass the warm feature so it works like a plain old rice cooker.

My rice cooker is a one quart Reverware sauce pan with lid. It works so well
every time.

G.

[dsi1]

You'd be surprised at how many people find a pan on the stove to be
unworkable. Then again, maybe not. We used to have a cast aluminum pan
made for cooking rice back in the 60s. That was a bitching pan. I've
never seen one like that sold anywhere. Electric rice cookers wiped them
out.

[Janet Bostwick]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:15:45 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
snip

>
>From a previous comment, it sounds like your stove is to blame - not
>you. That method might tide you over until you have a more reliable
>stove.

I'll just replace burners or burner controls.
Janet US

[sf]

Yeah, that's the exact problem I have with this one. Turn off, darn
it all! That's all I want. If I need to reheat the rice, I'll do it
in the microwave. Fortunately, I'm very used to the way it works so
I've got the drill down.

[Brooklyn1]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:51:54 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

>On 8/3/2012 10:30 AM, Gary wrote:
>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>
>>> The problem with the new basic model rice cooker is that they pretty
>>> much all have a keep warm feature. That's OK except that it'll stay on
>>> that setting until the cows come home or you pull the plug. My $12 rice
>>> cooker is fine except there's no off switch. There's probably a way to
>>> bypass the warm feature so it works like a plain old rice cooker.
>>
>> My rice cooker is a one quart Reverware sauce pan with lid. It works so well
>> every time.
>>
>> G.
>>
>
>You'd be surprised at how many people find a pan on the stove to be
>unworkable.

The morons.

>Then again, maybe not. We used to have a cast aluminum pan
>made for cooking rice back in the 60s. That was a bitching pan. I've
>never seen one like that sold anywhere. Electric rice cookers wiped them
>out.

Bull shit, calderos are still sold by the thousands.

Like Gary I've been cooking perfect rice in a pan on the stove top for
more then 50 years, in a 2 qt Revereware, but any pot with a tight lid
works. Only a couple times did it fail, and only because I forgot and
suddenly smelled burn...so for the past twenty years I set a timer. I
almost always cook 2 cups of rice... almost always a pilaf, I don't
like plain rice. I see no point in a "rice cooker"... most of the
planet cooks rice in a pot. This is one of my favorite ways to cook
rice only I prefer to use black beans:
http://www.elboricua.com/arroz_con_gandules.html
How to:
http://www.elboricua.com/arroz.html
Rice pots:
http://www.elboricua.com/CCNOW_Calderos.html

[dsi1]

These things must be made in the same factory in China. :-)

[dsi1]

On 8/3/2012 11:55 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:51:54 -1000, dsi1
> <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 8/3/2012 10:30 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> dsi1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The problem with the new basic model rice cooker is that they pretty
>>>> much all have a keep warm feature. That's OK except that it'll stay on
>>>> that setting until the cows come home or you pull the plug. My $12 rice
>>>> cooker is fine except there's no off switch. There's probably a way to
>>>> bypass the warm feature so it works like a plain old rice cooker.
>>>
>>> My rice cooker is a one quart Reverware sauce pan with lid. It works so well
>>> every time.
>>>
>>> G.
>>>
>>
>> You'd be surprised at how many people find a pan on the stove to be
>> unworkable.
>
> The morons.
>
>> Then again, maybe not. We used to have a cast aluminum pan
>> made for cooking rice back in the 60s. That was a bitching pan. I've
>> never seen one like that sold anywhere. Electric rice cookers wiped them
>> out.
>
> Bull shit, calderos are still sold by the thousands.

What the heck is a calderos? The pot I'm talking about had a rim that
effectively stopped boil-over. It was super bitchin'!

[jmcquown]

"sf" wrote in message news:95rm18t6074mtlvgr...@4ax.com...

There's no trick to it if you use a covered pan rather than a rice cooker.
I don't understand the need for rice cookers. Rice (even brown rice) is not
difficult to make. The instructions are on the bag. What's the big deal?

Jill

[Leon Manfredi]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:33:45 +0000 (UTC), spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope)
wrote:

If you had access to either a microwave oven or rice cooker, you wouldn't be
having this problem since it would be automatic..... "Set It and Forget It"..!!!
Stovetop needs constant watching....

[Krypsis]

Just the simple on and keep warm switch. It's the only type we ever buy.
Don't need anything fancy for rice cooking.


--

Krypsis

[Krypsis]

Ours used to have a bell for when it was cooked. Seems the bell no
longer works but we usually time the rice cooking so that it's ready
when the rest of the meal is ready to be served. No hassles really.

--

Krypsis

[Krypsis]

Yes, it takes a bit of experimentation and experience to get different
types of rice down pat. We're always using different types of rice so we
are prepared to experiment a little and suffer the occasional failures.
Might add, the failures never seem to result in inedible rice, just rice
that's a little more mushy than we prefer or, very occasionally, rice
that's a little undercooked. No biggie!

--

Krypsis

[Krypsis]

I think you might be onto something there. My wife does a mean pot of
rice but her mashed potatoes are a hit and miss affair. Usually
undercooked and lumpy whereas I tend to go the other way... a little
overcooked if anything.

--

Krypsis

[dsi1]

On 8/3/2012 1:51 PM, Krypsis wrote:
>
> I think you might be onto something there. My wife does a mean pot of
> rice but her mashed potatoes are a hit and miss affair. Usually
> undercooked and lumpy whereas I tend to go the other way... a little
> overcooked if anything.
>

Near as I can figure out, it's the potatoes - they hate me!

[sf]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 09:44:10 +1000, Krypsis <kry...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

> Ours used to have a bell for when it was cooked. Seems the bell no
> longer works but we usually time the rice cooking so that it's ready
> when the rest of the meal is ready to be served. No hassles really.

Mine has never had a bell, but the "click" when it switches over to
warm is so loud, it might as well be a bell. To be honest, I've never
timed it and after decades of using this thing I still can't tell you
how long it takes. In any case, I don't stress about timing because I
always spend more time making the rest of the meal than it takes to
cook the rice.

[sf]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:10:20 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> What the heck is a calderos?

Google says it's "caldero", not calderos - but I still don't know what
they are... the images I saw were regular pots that look similar to a
dutch oven.

> The pot I'm talking about had a rim that
> effectively stopped boil-over. It was super bitchin'!

I wonder if you could describe it effectively enough for google images
to recognize it? I found this, but it's not what you were talking
about
http://www.jeffsreviews.com/Articles/kitchen%20mar2010/Kuhn%20Rikon%20KochBlume%20Spill%20Stopper.html

[sf]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:55:48 -0400, "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> There's no trick to it if you use a covered pan rather than a rice cooker.
> I don't understand the need for rice cookers. Rice (even brown rice) is not
> difficult to make. The instructions are on the bag. What's the big deal?

You didn't read my post?

For one thing, there were no instructions on the bag I had and the
instructions I followed from the internet didn't make rice to my
liking.

[dsi1]

On 8/3/2012 2:52 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:10:20 -1000, dsi1
> <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> What the heck is a calderos?
>
> Google says it's "caldero", not calderos - but I still don't know what
> they are... the images I saw were regular pots that look similar to a
> dutch oven.

This caldero stuff looks a lot like a pot to me.

>
>> The pot I'm talking about had a rim that
>> effectively stopped boil-over. It was super bitchin'!
>
> I wonder if you could describe it effectively enough for google images
> to recognize it? I found this, but it's not what you were talking
> about
> http://www.jeffsreviews.com/Articles/kitchen%20mar2010/Kuhn%20Rikon%20KochBlume%20Spill%20Stopper.html
>

It was kind of a goofy looking thing. Hard to believe nobody's thought
to take a picture of one. Too ubiquitous I guess.

[Leon Manfredi]

Potato Buds are easier, can be adjusted for flavor, made firmly or loose, with
left over's for reheating, gravies over, or pan fried, to make Italian Potato
Cakes to snack on.... with parmesan cheese/black pepper/egg/flour/Italian
flavored bread crumbs/hint/salt.... Before frying make a small sampler for taste
adjustment, in an olive oil wetted pan as needed....

IT'S NOT JUST THE REGULAR INGREDIENTS... IT'S THE PARMESAN CHEESE STUPIDS.

[sf]

Get out of here. Potato Buds? He's talking about real potatoes.

[sf]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:01:47 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> It was kind of a goofy looking thing. Hard to believe nobody's thought
> to take a picture of one. Too ubiquitous I guess.

What happened to yours?

[spamtrap1888]

If your burners run too high for your liking, try replacing one with a
low output "simmer burner."

[Janet Bostwick]

I think I need to have the repair guy come by. The control knob
doesn't control the way it used to. Obviously it isn't the knob
itself, but the little unit underneath the cook top. That is a wiring
issue and I and hubby don't do electrical.

With this stove, I have never had the need for a simmer burner but it
is nice to know that such a thing is available. Thanks
Janet US

[Krypsis]

Yep! Real honest to goodness old spuds! Nothing better!

--

Krypsis

[sf]

On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 19:12:21 +1000, Krypsis <kry...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

Okay, I might be able to help because I had a steep learning curve
too. I think russets (baking potatoes) make the best mashed. I know
some people like waxy potatoes, but I prefer the lighter texture of
russets as mashed.

Everybody has their way of doing it. I don't salt the water, I know a
lot of people do - I tried it and didn't like it. You can boil them
with jackets on or off. I prefer to boil them with the jackets off
because there's no peeling hot potatoes and going through all of that
hassle trying not to burn your fingers. When they are fork tender,
drain well and let them sit in the still hot pan for a few minutes to
dry out. I think that's the key and it serves the same purpose as
taking the time to remove the skin from hot potatoes.

The next issue is liquid. The biggest problem most people have is
they add to much of it. First I add a generous amount of (salted)
butter and crush the potatoes with my masher. Some people add hot
milk, but I don't bother heating it. I use a heavy saucepan that
retains heat. If I didn't have a heavy pan and I thought the potatoes
were cooling down during the process, I'd do it over super low heat.
Anyway, I pour in a tiny amount (1/4 cup or in tablespoons, depending
on the volume of potatoes) and then I use my masher to "whip" them.
Just pour a little and whip. Every addition of liquid will loosen
them up more, keep doing it until they reach the consistency you want
and it takes less than you may think. The type of liquid you use
isn't written in stone either, I use anything from low fat to heavy
cream - I tend to use a little more butter if all I have on hand is
low fat milk. Sometimes, I'll loosen them initially with a little
potato water and finish up with heavy cream... it all depends on my
mood and what I have in the refrigerator. No matter how I do it, they
turn out fluffy.

The only other variable is your pan. You need one that's wide enough
to be able to use your masher effectively as a whip. I've found that
my 6 qt saucepan is perfect and I use my 8 qt stockpot to make larger
amounts when the family is here for a holiday meal.

It's shocking how fast mashed potatoes whip up once you've got the
drill down.

[dsi1]

On 8/3/2012 6:15 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:01:47 -1000, dsi1
> <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
>> It was kind of a goofy looking thing. Hard to believe nobody's thought
>> to take a picture of one. Too ubiquitous I guess.
>
> What happened to yours?
>

It was may parent's rice pot. The didn't use it much after the 60s when
they to an automatic rice cooker. I don't know what happened to it. It
might be in the deepest recesses under their cooktop.

[Ema Nymton]

On 8/3/2012 7:06 PM, dsi1 wrote:

> Near as I can figure out, it's the potatoes - they hate me!

Not sure what your problem is, honey, but sf just gave some good
instructions for making mashed potatoes. Good luck.

Becca

[sf]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 18:00:05 -0500, Ema Nymton <EmaN...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Thank you, Becca! That's quite a compliment.

[dsi1]

Thanks for the tips! part of the problem is that I haven't eaten very
much mashed potatoes so I'm not sure what they're supposed to be like -
believe it or not. Anyway, my guess is that the potatoes are supposed to
be cooked enough so that they'll split when you poke it with a fork.
Would that be a correct assumption?

[dsi1]

Must have missed that one. Problem rectified. :-)

[sf]

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:44:46 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

> Thanks for the tips! part of the problem is that I haven't eaten very
> much mashed potatoes so I'm not sure what they're supposed to be like -
> believe it or not. Anyway, my guess is that the potatoes are supposed to
> be cooked enough so that they'll split when you poke it with a fork.
> Would that be a correct assumption?

Split? I'd say they're done "when pierced easily with a fork"... a
cooking fork, not an eating fork. Falling apart is overcooked. If
they're undercooked and a little lumpy, I'd say that's a perfect use
for your microwave. Put them in it for a few minutes to continue
cooking.

After the initial addition, just add your liquid a little at a time
because the texture can go from fluffy to library paste quickly.

[dsi1]

I made some mashed potatoes over decade ago and it suddenly turned
translucent and gummy - man, that was a horrible experience. I didn't
know it was even possible to do this.

My problem is that I can't visualize mashed potatoes in my mind. I
always have a picture in my head about what I'm cooking which sometimes
gets changed while I'm cooking. It's always real to me. Mashed potatoes,
OTOH, are just hazy white stuff to me. It's a good description of my
mashed potatoes. Thanks for your expert advice.

[sf]

Good luck!