What are currently your best saving tips ?
Eric
practice, relating
to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
it's for
food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
Goomba
Cook and eat at home more than you eat out. Duh.
gloria.p
Stay out of stores and online shopping sites.
"Want" does not equal "need".
gloria p
John Weiss
Change incandescent to CFL lights.
If you have an old furnace, upgrade to a new 95%+ effiency model.
Check your insulation and windows. Upgrade if warranted.
If your "financial advisor" charges you recurring fees, switch to a
"fee only" financial advisor who doesn't stand to profit from the
investments he recommends.
Replace whole life with term life insurance.
John Kuthe
Don't buy/eat processed foods. Processing costs $$ you can save!
John Kuthe...
Je�us
wrote:
Grow/make your own food from basic ingredients. Avoid
packaged/processed foods.
Or perhaps become a skilled shoplifter, lawyer, banker, or some other
form of parasitic life.
zxcvbob
One word: road kill.
HTH :-)
Bob
Je�us
wrote:
Hey, I'm not above picking up roadkill sometimes :)
John Kuthe
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 22:08:39 -0500, zxcvbob <zxcv...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Eric wrote:
> >> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> >> practice, relating to how you make your money go much further
> >> than it used to, whether it's for food - weekly living expenses,
> >> home and financial investment, etc.
>
> >One word: road kill.
>
> Hey, I'm not above picking up roadkill sometimes :)
Makes great Hillbilly Stew!
John Kuthe...
Je�us
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just call me Cletus :)
Well, looking at it logically:
It gets pretty cool here, nothing unusual here to see -6�C overnight,
and it's a pretty remote area. So if you come across some roadkill
early in the day that wasnt there the evening before, it'll be in
perfect condition - assuming it didnt get mashed of course!
Quite common to find Venison or Wallaby here... the other creatures
I'd avoid. If nothing else, it makes perfectly good pet meat. It's
nearly impossible to live here and drive at night without at least
hitting a wallaby from time to time. The crazy buggers will sometimes
slam into the *side* of the vehicle as well.
Melba's Jammin'
<660aaeb8-ea5c-400b...@g5g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Eric <pag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Spend less.
--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
Updated 4-24-2010 with food story and pictures
cybercat
"Eric" <pag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:660aaeb8-ea5c-400b...@g5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Shop the sales.
A Moose In Love
i eat potatoes and carrots STOP today i got 10 pounds of Yukon Gold
potatoes for $1.99 STOP so i made potato paprikash STOP
mm
>
>Quite common to find Venison or Wallaby here... the other creatures
Where are you? Walla Walla?
The Daring Dufas
Do you make it out of real Hillbillies? How do you clean and
dress them before cooking?
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Oh stop it!
TDD
Paco
"Eric" <pag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:660aaeb8-ea5c-400b...@g5g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Cancel your ISP account.
Je�us
wrote:
>On Fri, 14 May 2010 13:44:37 +1000, Je�us <no...@all.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>Quite common to find Venison or Wallaby here... the other creatures
>
>Where are you? Walla Walla?
Something like that. AKA Van Dieman's Land.
>>I'd avoid. If nothing else, it makes perfectly good pet meat. It's
>>nearly impossible to live here and drive at night without at least
>>hitting a wallaby from time to time. The crazy buggers will sometimes
>>slam into the *side* of the vehicle as well.
ObFood:
Lunch - Roast Pumpkin and onion soup
Dinner - Chicken Rendang
Bob Eager
Another journalist trying to do research on the cheap, with minimal
effort?
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Nightjar
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
Many years ago, I met someone who did that by putting it in a suitcase
and flying it to Switzerland.
Colin Bignell
Rod Speed
Get quite a bit of stuff at yard sales.
Hardly ever buy anything that isnt on special except stuff that I dont use much
of. Keep enough stock so I can always by at the best price I have ever seen,
and keep track of what the best price is for the stuff I use much of.
Brew my own beer. My country gouges commercial alcohol except wine.
Better beer than the commercial beer too.
Almost never buy books new anymore. Mostly get them at yard sales and
online, second hand. We dont have a viable free book exchange in my country.
The public library does have some stuff I want to read, but doesnt have quite
a bit of other stuff too, like Jared Diamond's books and true crime etc.
Built my own house from scratch doing almost all of the work myself.
I've always understood the basics with financial investments, started off
with stocks while still in high school and made heaps over the next 50+ years.
Drive a very fuel efficient small Korean car. Used the one before
that one for 35+ years and it only passed its useby date when I
was stupid enough to not fix the obviously leaking windscreen and
it eventually rusted the floor and couldnt be registered anymore.
Did my most expensive hobby, light plane flying, essentially for free
by dry hiring the plane we owned to a commercial pilot and with one
of the other owners having been in aircraft maintenance for years etc.
The Natural Philosopher
"Dope will get you through times of no money, better than money will get
you through times of no dope."
Freewheeling Franklin
Je�us
I still have the comic with that quote.
Je�us
Roddles in rfc... you should stick around in rfc, you'd be real
popular here ;). Long time no see (so to speak).
pete
Turn the heating down - wear a sweater, put another blanket on the bed
dump the TV subscription - you don't watch most of it anyway
lose the smartphone - should be obvious
don't have kids - probably the biggest single saving you'll ever make
walk - if you're able-bodied, anything less than a mile should be on foot
cancel the gym subscription - you probably never even went once
use gas for heating - turn off the elctric fires
don't wash your clothes after 1 wearing - saves power and they'll last longer
use a laptop, not a desktop PC - less power hungry and hibernates better
Bruce
Plumber?
Tim Watts
These are on special:
The first tool of every plumber (******s, I'm spending half my life
undoing plumbers' work on my flooring timbers!).
--
Tim Watts
Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
Dave Liquorice
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend ...
Shop around. Just about to buy a 1T network hard drive for £107 from
a big known retailer, most places have it just under £130, the RRP is
closer to £150...
A few quid can be saved by watching for the BOGOF or other offers in
the supermarket but do the maths! Sometimes the "offer" price can
actually be more than buying a similar quantity of the same product
but in different package sizes at the regular price.
--
Cheers
Dave.
The Natural Philosopher
>
>> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
>> practice, relating
>> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
>> it's for
>> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
>
> need a USB cable for my printer, I can easily buy one online for $2 or
> $3 for a six foot long cable,
Plus post and packing.
whereas all the stores in my area charge
> around $20 for the same cable.
plus cost of fuel to pick it up.
George Shirley
Bob, Bob, Bob, you forgot the East Texas way of telling fresh roadkill.
On your way into town stop and put a chalk mark around all existing
roadkill. On the way home the ones without a chalk mark are fresh. If
they're still kicking it is extra fresh.
brooklyn1
wrote:
>What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
>practice, relating
>to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
>it's for
>food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
Never bathe alone.
Launder and reuse condoms.
Use both sides of the TP.
Bruce
The bane of our lives, plumbers.
Jon Danniken
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
You can get two meals of tuna from a can of tuna, but that same can of tuna
can provide several dozen meals of cat.
Jon
ViLco
news:c84qu5h0e3onr8juv...@4ax.com...
>>"Dope will get you through times of no money, better than money will get
>>you through times of no dope."
>>Freewheeling Franklin
> I still have the comic with that quote.
I love FFFB :)
Tim Watts
> Launder and reuse condoms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaFOuuQOGk
LouB
LouB
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 18:44:58 -0700, Eric wrote:
>
>> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
>> practice, relating
>> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether it's
>> for
>> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
>
> Another journalist trying to do research on the cheap, with minimal
> effort?
>
>
>
Food Snob®
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 20:35:06 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>
>
>
>
>
> <johnku...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 13, 10:28 pm, Jeßus <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 13 May 2010 22:08:39 -0500, zxcvbob <zxcv...@charter.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> >> >> practice, relating to how you make your money go much further
> >> >> than it used to, whether it's for food - weekly living expenses,
> >> >> home and financial investment, etc.
>
>
> >> Hey, I'm not above picking up roadkill sometimes :)
>
> >Makes great Hillbilly Stew!
>
>
It sounds better if you say, ''Well slap my ass and call me Cletus.''
--Bryan, Ozark Hillbilly
Food Snob®
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 18:44:58 -0700 (PDT), Eric wrote:
> > What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> > practice, relating
> > to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> > it's for
> > food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
>
> Consume less - don't buy so much food just to throw half of it away
That's good advice.
> Turn the heating down - wear a sweater, put another blanket on the bed
Or on a hot day, turn off the AC and post to the NG buck naked.
> dump the TV subscription - you don't watch most of it anyway
I've never paid for TV.
> lose the smartphone - should be obvious
Don't have one of those either.
> don't have kids - probably the biggest single saving you'll ever make
Or have only one.
> walk - if you're able-bodied, anything less than a mile should be on foot
When there's time and the weather is nice. Bicycle too.
> cancel the gym subscription - you probably never even went once
We get a free one, and I still don't go much.
> use gas for heating - turn off the elctric fires
We do that too.
> don't wash your clothes after 1 wearing - saves power and they'll last longer
But they get smelly.
> use a laptop, not a desktop PC - less power hungry and hibernates better
The screen is too small.
--Bryan
ChairMan
brooklyn1 <grave...@verizon.net>spewed forth:
Don't forget to shake the fuck outta them first
LouB
Sit closer
Adrian C
>>> cancel the gym subscription - you probably never even went once
>>
>> We get a free one, and I still don't go much.
Go!
Well, use the place at least to work out your relationship with food,
stress and energy levels. It will break overeating habits and save you
lots.
--
Adrian C
martop
> These are on special:
>
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/51498/Power-Tools/Power-Saws/Erbauer-ERI67RSP-18V-Li-ion-Reciprocating-Saw
>
>
> The first tool of every plumber (******s, I'm spending half my life
> undoing plumbers' work on my flooring timbers!).
>
There is a lot of those floor chopping plumbers about :-(
--
Mart
harry
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
Grow your own vegetables. Keep chickens and feed them on food waste.
Or even a pig.
Bob F
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
I get most of the gadgets, electronics, tools, etc that I need either free or
cheap through craigslist and freecycle. Sometimes I have to repair things, but
most of the repairs are simple mechanical things.
The Real Bev
--
Cheers,
Bev
----------------------------------------------------------
"When I was in college, the only job I could get was
shitting on people's lawns. Sure, the owners complained,
but it was honest work and it kept me off welfare..."
-- M. Tabnik in mcfl (paraphrased)
Gib Bogle
How's your short-term memory? ;-)
Arri London
Eric wrote:
>
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
Buy less. Eat less. Use less.
It's neither rocket science nor brain surgery :)
Je�us
To be honest - not that great :)
Je�us
<bryang...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On May 13, 10:44�pm, Je�us <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 May 2010 20:35:06 -0700 (PDT), John Kuthe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <johnku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On May 13, 10:28�pm, Je�us <n...@all.invalid> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 13 May 2010 22:08:39 -0500, zxcvbob <zxcv...@charter.net>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Eric wrote:
>> >> >> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
>> >> >> practice, relating to how you make your money go much further
>> >> >> than it used to, whether it's for food - weekly living expenses,
>> >> >> home and financial investment, etc.
>>
>> >> >One word: �road kill.
>>
>> >> Hey, I'm not above picking up roadkill sometimes :)
>>
>> >Makes great Hillbilly Stew!
>>
>> Just call me Cletus :)
>>
>It sounds better if you say, ''Well slap my ass and call me Cletus.''
>
>--Bryan, Ozark Hillbilly
Noted for future reference Bryan. Hyuk!
The Natural Philosopher
HeyBub
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
Unplug clocks when not in use (or remove batteries).
George
> What are currently your best saving tips you recommend and also
> practice, relating
> to how you make your money go much further than it used to, whether
> it's for
> food - weekly living expenses, home and financial investment, etc.
>
Gamble as heavy as possible like you can never loose or maybe buy
everything you can't afford and the nice folks in the Congress will take
money away from others to help you out..
Ed Pawlowski
"Andy" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:Xns9D7963B...@216.196.97.131...
> When using supermarket coupons, buy the smallest size of that product for
> the best savings.
>
> Andy
Not all the time.
I saw a brand of ice cream for $6 a quart, $4 a pint. How does using a $1
off coupon give the best savings? With the coupon on the smaller size, the
price per quart is only the same as the price buying the larger size without
the coupon.
Your way makes sense if you want to try a new product as it minimizes waste
if you don't like it.
Ed Pawlowski
"Andy" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:Xns9D7968C...@216.196.97.131...
>
> That was from a super-saver's advice on TV ages ago.
>
> $1.00 off of a $1.00 item is a better deal than $1.00 off a $2.00 size of
> the same product.
>
> Would you agree?
>
> Best,
>
> Andy
>
Maybe. It it an item you will buy again? If the $1 item is 8 ounces but
the $2 size is 32 ounces, you do get much more for your buck in spite of the
"free" item. If, OTOH, the only reason you are buying the product is the
coupon and that makes it cheap, then yes, stick to smaller sizes. Sometimes
we get coupons and do buy the smallest to be sure we like the product. That
minimizes cash outlay, especially if you end up not liking it.
The coupon gives the best percentage of saving from the retail price on the
smallest size, but it is still not always the best cost per ounce deal.
Bill
Do dishes by hand.
Buy the ingredients for food and make it yourself instead or eating at
restaurants or buying frozen dinners. Search for frugal recipes.
Take showers instead of a bath, turn off the water while soaping up, and
take showers only when necessary. Maybe skip showers on weekends if you are
not going out. Fewer showers in the winter, but of course two showers in one
day might be needed in the summer if working out in the hot sun - just what
is needed is the idea.
Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for 50
cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin to
acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
instead for this.)
Instead of heating/cooling the entire house, just heat/cool one room. Living
room during the day, just bedroom at night. Of course on very cold evenings,
keep the whole house (especially bathrooms/kitchen) warm enough so pipes
don't freeze).
Go shopping once a month. Have 2 of each item like ketchup, mayonnaise, etc.
When you run out of something, use the 2nd item, and write it down on the
list. Then you only need to go shopping once a month. Then go to the least
expensive store, buy generic items rather than name brand. Saves on
gasoline.
Also buy the newest most energy efficient "Energy Star" appliances. I bought
a new refrigerator which reduced my electric bill by $15 a month. That paid
for itself in 5 years.
Lean to add....
$15 x 12 months = $180.
$180 x 5 years = $900.
The new refrigerator cost $800.
Energy saving tips...
http://www.energystar.gov
Stormin Mormon
dressed.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"The Daring Dufas" <the-dari...@peckerhead.net> wrote
in message news:hsiosl$4l0$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
John Kuthe wrote:
>
> Makes great Hillbilly Stew!
>
> John Kuthe...
Do you make it out of real Hillbillies? How do you clean and
dress them before cooking?
TDD
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Shawn Hirn" <sr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-9798D8.0...@93-136-209-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr...
Tops on my list is to shop online whenever possible. For
example, if I
need a USB cable for my printer, I can easily buy one online
for $2 or
$3 for a six foot long cable, whereas all the stores in my
area charge
around $20 for the same cable.
Tim Watts
> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
>
> Do dishes by hand.
That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
> Buy the ingredients for food and make it yourself instead or eating at
> restaurants or buying frozen dinners.
There's an odd thing. If I cook "nice" food (as opposed to designed to
be cheap) it can be as expensive as ready meals...
> Search for frugal recipes.
That's the key...
> Take showers instead of a bath, turn off the water while soaping up, and
> take showers only when necessary. Maybe skip showers on weekends if you are
> not going out. Fewer showers in the winter, but of course two showers in one
> day might be needed in the summer if working out in the hot sun - just what
> is needed is the idea.
Yep.
>
> Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
> cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for 50
> cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin to
> acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
> instead for this.)
Yep, s/Tape/DVD/
>
> Instead of heating/cooling the entire house, just heat/cool one room. Living
> room during the day, just bedroom at night. Of course on very cold evenings,
> keep the whole house (especially bathrooms/kitchen) warm enough so pipes
> don't freeze).
>
> Go shopping once a month. Have 2 of each item like ketchup, mayonnaise, etc.
> When you run out of something, use the 2nd item, and write it down on the
> list. Then you only need to go shopping once a month. Then go to the least
> expensive store, buy generic items rather than name brand. Saves on
> gasoline.
Or use Internet shopping - gives more time to browse for the special
offers and you can do it from your kitchen so you can be sure what you
need. Delivery of often free at certain times of the day, or is no worse
than the fuel costs of running the car.
I shop once per week, which with Waitrose stuff, is often just about the
use by period of the food.
>
> Also buy the newest most energy efficient "Energy Star" appliances. I bought
> a new refrigerator which reduced my electric bill by $15 a month. That paid
> for itself in 5 years.
>
> Lean to add....
> $15 x 12 months = $180.
> $180 x 5 years = $900.
> The new refrigerator cost $800.
>
> Energy saving tips...
> http://www.energystar.gov
>
But do the sums... If you buy a cheap piece of crap and it dies after 2
years, you haven't won.
--
Tim Watts
Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.
Lou
"Tim Watts" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:hsmgge$vn8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
> > Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
> >
> > Do dishes by hand.
>
> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
of dishes. But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.
Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
want to be without.
Bob Eager
> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
> efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
>
> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough
> water to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department
> calculated that filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost
> about $20. So the price of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300
> would buy around 300,000 gallons of water at that price, which is enough
> water to wash an awful lot of dishes. But then there's the cost of
> heating the additional water washing by hand would use over what the
> dishwasher uses.
Your understandably US-centric view omits the fact that, for many in the
UK, a flat charge is paid for water.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Ed Pawlowski
"Bill" <billnoma...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Don't see the latest movies, be content with the old movies. Disconnect
> cable TV. Instead buy old VHS tapes at yard sales. These are selling for
> 50 cents each at yard sales now in my area. For $30 a month, you can begin
> to acquire a very large collection of VHS tapes. (Use the cable TV money
> instead for this.)
That is a personal thing. I'd not pay 50� for the latest movie. I can
think of only two times I've gone to a movie in the past 25 years and that
was to take the kids or grandkids. I do spend money on cable TV and watch
History Channel, Nat Geo, Science Channel, Discovery, etc. The Planet Earth
and Life series are infinitely more entertaining that some silly movie, IMO.
Don't miss America: The Story of Us either. I can go on and on about some
of the entertaining and interesting shows on cable networks.
> Lean to add....
> $15 x 12 months = $180.
> $180 x 5 years = $900.
> The new refrigerator cost $800.
But don't lean so far that you fall over. or the money will fall out of
your pockets.
Tim Watts
> "Tim Watts"<t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
> news:hsmgge$vn8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
>>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
>>>
>>> Do dishes by hand.
>>
>> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
>
> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
> efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
>
> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
> to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
> filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
> of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
> gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
> of dishes.
I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main
pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others
round here are on meters, I've so far escaped.
> But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
> washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.
Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
gas, solar, wood etc.
> Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
> convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
> want to be without.
Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;->
Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
(family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so
lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost
after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me,
that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than
sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area...
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote:
>> "Tim Watts"<t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>> news:hsmgge$vn8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
>>>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
>>>>
>>>> Do dishes by hand.
>>>
>>> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
>>
>> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
>> efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
>>
>> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
>> to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
>> filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
>> of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
>> gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
>> of dishes.
>
>I get an infinite amount of water (well, restricted by the 1/2" main
>pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others
>round here are on meters, I've so far escaped.
Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
the "waste" down the street.
>> But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
>> washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.
>
>Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
>dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
>gas, solar, wood etc.
Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.
>> Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
>> convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
>> want to be without.
>
>Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
>Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
>machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;->
>
>Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
>(family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so
>lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost
>after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me,
>that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than
>sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area...
When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was
larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger
than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer
makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.
Bob Eager
>>Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
>>dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
>>gas, solar, wood etc.
>
> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from
> the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do
> have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do
> washing by hand.
Again, you're assuming the U.S.
Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill. They use very little water,
so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:28 -0500, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>>>Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far. And a
>>>dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
>>>gas, solar, wood etc.
>>
>> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from
>> the same place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do
>> have heaters to boost the temperature further, something you can't do
>> washing by hand.
>
>Again, you're assuming the U.S.
>
>Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill.
That's dumb.
>They use very little water,
>so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.
So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
(with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
Tim Watts
> Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
> the "waste" down the street.
Not silly for me - especially when mixing lots of concrete and plaster
and the resulting washing out :)
>
> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
> place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
> boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.
Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
feed only.
>
> When I lived in Vermont (a *cold* place in hell), my property tax bill was
> larger than my heat bill, so I moved South. ;-) My tax bill is still larger
> than my heating bill, but both have dropped by 75%. ;-) AC in the summer
> makes up for a lot of the missing heat bill, though.
--
Tim Watts
> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
> (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
> stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
fills over 1-1.5 hours.
If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per
fill so half of that is cold either way and the central heating has to
heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine has
to heat the other half from cold effectively. So it's hardly worth
bothering with.
Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up to
produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage and
cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger warmed up.
There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as
they use around 55 litres of water for a wash - but that's something to
do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold
with a gentle warm up in the machine.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On 15/05/10 19:03, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> Unmetered water is silly. Why don't you use it to generate electricity? Flush
>> the "waste" down the street.
>
>Not silly for me - especially when mixing lots of concrete and plaster
>and the resulting washing out :)
Of course, I meant silly for the water company.
>>
>> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water. They get their water from the same
>> place your sink does, and less of it. Many dish washers do have heaters to
>> boost the temperature further, something you can't do washing by hand.
>
>Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
>all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
>feed only.
Dumb.
Tim Watts
> Of course, I meant silly for the water company.
They'll get round to scrfewing me over eventually so I'm enjoying it
while I can.
> Dumb.
I refer the honourable gentle to my other reply...
The Real Bev
> "Tim Watts" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
> news:hsmgge$vn8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 15/05/10 16:07, Bill wrote:
>> > Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
>> >
>> > Do dishes by hand.
>>
>> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
>
> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
> efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
>
> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough water
> to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated that
> filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the price
> of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
> gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful lot
> of dishes. But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
> washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.
Especially if you just rinse off your dish after you use it. You don't have to
use hot water, though, so that complicates the calculation.
> Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more
> convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I wouldn't
> want to be without.
That's what I thought until I actually used one. You have to rinse/scrape all
the crap (especially dried egg) off the dishes before you put them in the
washer -- especially if it takes you several days to fill the washer. If you
air-dry them to save on electricity, some of the items (cup/glass bottoms, for
instance) don't dry. If you have enough dishes to more than fill the washer
you can either let the extras hang around until you have enough to run another
load or wash them by hand. The squeaky-clean feeling of the dishes that the
washer DOES clean is nice, but that seems marginal unless you're way more
anal-retentive than I am.
--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.
Bob Eager
>>Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
>>all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
>>feed only.
>
> Dumb.
Not at all. I explained about the wastage in the pipe, and someone else
has explained it again.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On 15/05/10 19:34, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
>> (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
>> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
>> stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
>
>No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
>model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
>fills over 1-1.5 hours.
Someone just said six gallons, total. Models differ somewhat, but dishwashers
use significantly less water than washing by hand.
>If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per
>fill so half of that is cold either way and the central heating has to
>heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine has
>to heat the other half from cold effectively. So it's hardly worth
>bothering with.
Why do you put your water heaters out in the street? Almost every house I've
seen (with this being a *dumb* exception) has the plumbing centralized. My
first house had a run of less than ten feet to every hot-water tap in the
house.
>Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up to
>produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage and
>cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger warmed up.
>
>There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as
>they use around 55 litres of water for a wash - but that's something to
>do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold
>with a gentle warm up in the machine.
Our washing machine is right underneath the water heater.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
>On Sat, 15 May 2010 13:51:15 -0500, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>>>Your general statement has one bad assumption. USA ones may be - nearly
>>>all the new ones here in teh UK (including washing machines) are cold
>>>feed only.
>>
>> Dumb.
>
>Not at all. I explained about the wastage in the pipe, and someone else
>has explained it again.
It doesn't matter how many times it's "explained", it's dumb!
dennis@home
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:g4qtu59oakg0pi55q...@4ax.com...
> On 15 May 2010 18:10:49 GMT, Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
8<
>>Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill.
>
> That's dumb.
Over here dishwashers only use a few litre of hot water.
Its cheaper to heat it in the machine than to use hot fill.
>
>>They use very little water,
>>so often they would fill mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.
>
> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
> (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up
> to
> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
> stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
How can that be true, no hot water is wasted in a cold fill dishwasher.
Bob F
> On 15/05/10 19:34, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing
>> by hand (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to
>> get the tap up to temperature, plus the water needed to do the
>> dishes. Seems like an even stronger argument for a hot-water plumed
>> dishwasher.
>
> No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
> model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
> fills over 1-1.5 hours.
>
> If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per
> fill so half of that is cold either way and the central heating has to
> heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine
> has to heat the other half from cold effectively. So it's hardly worth
> bothering with.
>
> Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up
> to produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage
> and cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger
> warmed up.
If the pipes are insulated, they don't lose that much in one run. Heating water
with gas here cost about half what letting the dishwasher heat it electrically
costs.
Bob F
But heating it may cost more, if the water heater is gas, for instance.
js.b1
Everyone buying dot-com stocks?
- Buy the banksters selling the crap.
Everyone buying Apple laptop & desktop?
- Buy the company making the hugely profitable, relatively low tech,
high marketing items.
Case in point buying Apple circa 1989 when the Macintosh II was about
the same as a basic car (6700) and a similar spec'd out PC was about
5x less (1400). I recall a company at the time spent 850,000 on
Macintosh II and I wonder if they wish they had spent 150,000 on PCs
and put 700,000 on AAPL shares. The value now would be quite
hilarious.
Diversify your risk, which means a very broad global asset portfolio
because the word "Billion" is becoming pocket change to the lips of
politicians and bankers alike - which is usually just before life
savings end up buying a loaf of bread. I think the optimistic view of
TARP / Euro-TARP / UK-OOPS being cleared is by 2030 but most expect by
2040. Unfortunately that excludes the cost of social security &
medical for rising numbers of retirees which makes reducing deficits
virtually impossible. That in turn means they get to shoot currencies,
watch the euro fall apart, germany's weak currency advantage
protecting its manufacturing vanish (nice USA plan in here somewhere),
and eventually USA tell China where it can stick its Treasury bills
"come and collect it... just not everyone at once ok".
Dave Liquorice
> Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
> Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
> machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;->
My dear old mum refused point blank to get a washing machine. Had a
gas power copper boiler in the corner of the kitchen and a poser.
Orginally the boiler had a mangle on the top, I remember winding the
handle as a lad. The rubber on the rollers eventually perished and an
upright spin dryer was purchased. But she never had a washing
machine.
> Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
> (family of 4),
<snip>
> But the 2nd biggest cost after food was actually Council Tax
No car? Groceries are our biggest bill but following close behind is
the car. Energy and council tax fight over 3rd.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Dave Liquorice
> There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as
> they use around 55 litres of water for a wash - but that's something to
> do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold
> with a gentle warm up in the machine.
Yep, stored hotwater is normally 60C plus, far too hot for the normal
40C wash. You don't really want protien based stains/marks getting
too hot either or they'll denature and be a right begger to shift.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Ed Pawlowski
"Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing
>>> by hand (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to
>>> get the tap up to
>>> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an
>>> even stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
>>
>> How can that be true, no hot water is wasted in a cold fill
>> dishwasher.
>
> But heating it may cost more, if the water heater is gas, for instance.
>
>
In Europe, all fuels are expensive. Last time there I paid the equivalent
of $6.50 a gallon for heating oil. Gas was about the same. The places we
stayed did not have a dishwasher so I could not tell you if it was a cold
water start. Where we were, there was no natural gas either.
Offsetting the price of fuel, wine is good, plentiful, and cheap. You'd be
amazed at what you can get for $2 to $4 a bottle.
Dave Smith
> In Europe, all fuels are expensive. Last time there I paid the
> equivalent of $6.50 a gallon for heating oil. Gas was about the same.
> The places we stayed did not have a dishwasher so I could not tell you
> if it was a cold water start. Where we were, there was no natural gas
> either.
>
> Offsetting the price of fuel, wine is good, plentiful, and cheap.
> You'd be amazed at what you can get for $2 to $4 a bottle.
You have to drink a hell of a lot of wine to offset those fuel prices.
Ed Pawlowski
"Dave Smith" <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:FFEHn.152512$Dd3....@unlimited.newshosting.com...
We did
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Few pipes are insulated, and even fewer in walls. All pipes, no matter how
much insulation, will lose the heat in the entire run each cycle.
Tim Watts
> On Sat, 15 May 2010 19:47:19 +0100, Tim Watts<t...@dionic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/10 19:34, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>
>>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
>>> (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
>>> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
>>> stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
>>
>> No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
>> model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
>> fills over 1-1.5 hours.
>
> Someone just said six gallons, total. Models differ somewhat, but dishwashers
> use significantly less water than washing by hand.
6 gallons!?? How bloody big are your dishwashers? 13l is 3.4 US gallons
or 2.85 imperial gallons.
>> If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per
>> fill so half of that is cold either way and the central heating has to
>> heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine has
>> to heat the other half from cold effectively. So it's hardly worth
>> bothering with.
>
> Why do you put your water heaters out in the street? Almost every house I've
> seen (with this being a *dumb* exception) has the plumbing centralized. My
> first house had a run of less than ten feet to every hot-water tap in the
> house.
10m was a random guess. Perhaps 6m would be more realistic average. Of
course, those of us who own mansions ;-> That's 2m just to get upstairs,
then 3m to get across to wherever the tank is then 2m for wibbling pipe
around the tank and the sink. Still a sizeable fraction of the fill and
the point about combi boilers stands (these are increasingly popular here).
>> Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up to
>> produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage and
>> cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger warmed up.
>>
>> There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as
>> they use around 55 litres of water for a wash - but that's something to
>> do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold
>> with a gentle warm up in the machine.
>
> Our washing machine is right underneath the water heater.
--
Tim Watts
2 actually. But SWMBO commutes by train (no driving, we live pretty much
next to the station) and I only use it for dump runs and DIY pickups and
days out. I fill up maybe every 2 months.
Bob Eager
And one of the lowest costs was healthcare! .-)
Dave Liquorice
> In Europe, all fuels are expensive. Last time there I paid the
> equivalent of $6.50 a gallon for heating oil.
Some one saw you coming... 46p/l roughly the current price for 28sec
heating oil at current exchange rates is US$2.50/US Gallon (remember
a US galllon is only 3.78l, an Imperial gallon is 4.54l).
US$6.50/US Gallon is about £1.18/l even when 28 sec was eye
wateringly expensive a year or so back it wasn't that much. Round
here it peaked at about 65p/l.
Now if you are talking about pump prices for petrol (gas) or diesel
those are currently about US$6.50/US Gallon.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Rod Speed
> Bob Eager <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote
>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote
>>>> Yeah - the heating costs are the significant part by far.
Nope, the detergent costs more, essentially because so little water is used.
>>>> And a dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas
>>>> hot water may be heated by gas, solar, wood etc.
It doesnt get hot enough by solar.
>>> Dish washers are plumbed to the hot water.
Some are, some arent.
>>> They get their water from the same place your sink does,
Only the cold water.
>>> and less of it.
>>> Many dish washers do have heaters to boost the temperature further,
And so starting with solar doesnt help much cost wise.
>>> something you can't do washing by hand.
Corse you can.
>> Again, you're assuming the U.S.
>> Over here, dishwashers are usually cold fill.
> That's dumb.
Nope. It works better to start with cold water so you dont bake
on what what is on the plates etc and to heat that from cold.
>> They use very little water, so often they would fill
>> mostly cold anyway, from water lying in the pipe.
He's right.
> So you waste the water in the pipes either way.
Nope, not if the dishwasher heats from cold.
> If you're washing by hand (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water
> needed to get the tap up to temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes.
Yes, but not with a dishwasher that uses cold water.
> Seems like an even stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
Nope.
Clive George
>> No car? Groceries are our biggest bill but following close behind is
>> the car. Energy and council tax fight over 3rd.
>
> 2 actually. But SWMBO commutes by train (no driving, we live pretty much
> next to the station) and I only use it for dump runs and DIY pickups and
> days out. I fill up maybe every 2 months.
Depreciation, MOT, insurance, tax, repairs. Our car only gets used for
recreational trips too (though some of them can be quite a long way),
and I think even with zero depreciation (car bought for 500 quid 5 years
ago - it's not worth anything :-) ) it's still going to cost more than
our council tax every year. Close though.
Rod Speed
> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote
>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing
>> by hand (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to
>> get the tap up to temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even stronger argument for a
>> hot-water plumed dishwasher.
> No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of
> water over several fills over 1-1.5 hours.
They dont necessarily heat all those fills tho.
> If it takes 4 fills (I haven't counted) that's about 3l of water per fill so half of that is cold either way
Its rather more than half because some heat
is lost from the second half heating the pipe.
> and the central heating has to heat that half just to waste it cooling in the pipe and the machine
> has to heat the other half from cold effectively.
And has to heat even the hottest water even more too.
> So it's hardly worth bothering with.
Particularly when you consider the baking on effect below.
> Things may be worse with a combi boiler that actually has to fire up
> to produce hot water from cold mains - there's now pipework wastage
> and cold coming from the boiler while it gets the heat exchanger
> warmed up.
> There is a stonger argument for a washing machine having a hot fill as they use around 55 litres of water for a wash
But most clothes washing works fine in cold water. Dishwashing doesnt.
> - but that's something to do with (supposedly) the modern detergents preferring to work from cold with a gentle warm
> up in the machine.
Its not actually the detergent. Starting with cold
water avoids baking the food onto the plates.
Frank Erskine
>On 15/05/10 19:34, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>
>> So you waste the water in the pipes either way. If you're washing by hand
>> (with hot water) you're wasting all the hot water needed to get the tap up to
>> temperature, plus the water needed to do the dishes. Seems like an even
>> stronger argument for a hot-water plumed dishwasher.
>
>No, because 10m of 15mm dia pipe contains 1.7 l of water. A typical
>model 60cm wide Miele dishawasher takes in 13l of water over several
>fills over 1-1.5 hours.
Actually most (all?) Miele dishwashers are cold or hot fill.
--
Frank Erskine
Oren
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>>If the pipes are insulated, they don't lose that much in one run. Heating water
>>with gas here cost about half what letting the dishwasher heat it electrically
>>costs.
>
>Few pipes are insulated, and even fewer in walls. All pipes, no matter how
>much insulation, will lose the heat in the entire run each cycle.
I have a PEX manifold system. When hot is demanded, the cold is sent
back to the water heater. I get hot water faster that way. Granted all
systems are insulated....
Rod Speed
>>>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
>>>> Do dishes by hand.
>>> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
>> That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the
>> most efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
>> However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough
>> water to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department
>> calculated that filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost
>> about $20. So the price of a lower end dishwasher costing around
>> $300 would buy around 300,000 gallons of water at that price, which
>> is enough water to wash an awful lot of dishes. But then there's
>> the cost of heating the additional water washing by hand would use
>> over what the dishwasher uses.
> Especially if you just rinse off your dish after you use it.
No thanks, I prefer not to bother.
> You don't have to use hot water, though, so that complicates the calculation.
>> Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far more convenient than washing dishes by hand, and
>> is a home appliance I wouldn't want to be without.
Yeah, me too. Washing machine in spades.
> That's what I thought until I actually used one.
Thats what I know when I keep using one.
> You have to rinse/scrape all the crap (especially dried egg) off the dishes before you put them in the washer
No you dont. I dont bother at all and it works fine.
I dont even bother with the things that the food is cooked in either.
> -- especially if it takes you several days to fill the washer.
It takes me 9, and I dont bother.
> If you air-dry them to save on electricity, some of the items (cup/glass bottoms, for instance) don't dry.
Mine always do. And I have no choice on the air dry, thats all the dishwasher can do.
> If you have enough dishes to more than fill the washer
> you can either let the extras hang around until you have enough to run another load or wash them by hand.
Or have enough of a clue to start the dishwasher when its full.
> The squeaky-clean feeling of the dishes that the washer DOES clean is nice,
Yep, leave hand washed for dead.
> but that seems marginal unless you're way more anal-retentive than I am.
Nope.
And I HATE washing dishes anyway.
And the dishwasher leaves the alternative for dead when
washing the grill/shutter for the kitchen exhaust fan etc.
And I wouldnt even bother to brew beer if I had to wash the emptys by
hand. I only ever got started when a mate of mine told me that the 375ml
glass bottles are fine in the dishwasher and I proved that he was right.
Lou
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:8580gh...@mid.individual.net...
> On Sat, 15 May 2010 12:29:56 -0400, Lou wrote:
>
> > That's true. According to the user manual for my dishwasher, the most
> > efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
> >
> > However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough
> > water to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department
> > calculated that filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost
> > about $20. So the price of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300
> > would buy around 300,000 gallons of water at that price, which is enough
> > water to wash an awful lot of dishes. But then there's the cost of
> > heating the additional water washing by hand would use over what the
> > dishwasher uses.
>
> UK, a flat charge is paid for water.
My view is not US-centric, it's me-centric. In my 60 mumble years, the only
time I've paid by the gallon for water is in my present house. Before that,
I had a well, or rented a dwelling. For the well, the incremental cost of a
gallon of water was the electricity to pump it. When I rented, water was
included in the rent.
Everywhere in the UK it's a flat charge, no matter how much water a
particular account might use?
Lou
> On 15/05/10 17:29, Lou wrote:
> > "Tim Watts"<t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
> > news:hsmgge$vn8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> Transition from "American Dream" living to "3rd world country" living.
> >>>
> >>> Do dishes by hand.
> >>
> >> That often consumes more water with today's efficient dishwashers.
> >
> > efficient cycle uses less than 6 gallons of water to do a full load.
> >
> > However, for the cost of the dishwasher, it's possible to buy enough
water
> > to float a boat. In my municipality, the water department calculated
that
> > filling my pool (approximately 20,000 gallons) cost about $20. So the
price
> > of a lower end dishwasher costing around $300 would buy around 300,000
> > gallons of water at that price, which is enough water to wash an awful
lot
> > of dishes.
>
> pipe which limits to about 55 litres/min) for my money. Though others
> round here are on meters, I've so far escaped.
>
> > But then there's the cost of heating the additional water
> > washing by hand would use over what the dishwasher uses.
>
> dishwasher uses electric heating, whereas hot water may be heated by
> gas, solar, wood etc.
On the other hand, you may be heating a lot less water, and so may end up
paying less when all is said and done. Incidentally, my water, which
includes the water used by the dishwasher, is heated by gas.
>
> > Still, it's no contest as far as I'm concerned - a dishwasher is far
more
> > convenient than washing dishes by hand, and is a home appliance I
wouldn't
> > want to be without.
>
> Me too. But if you tried washing by hand (I did when on holiday in
> Latvia - washed my clothes in the river!), you may find that the washing
> machine *is* the machine you cannot live without ;->
>
> Last time I did a costs analysis in England, food was the biggest bill
> (family of 4), electric only heating in winter (rebuilding a house, so
> lack of insulation and no gas heating yet). But the 2nd biggest cost
> after food was actually Council Tax (pays for the police to harrass me,
> that sort of thing). And there's nothing I can do about that other than
> sell and buy a smaller house, or a house in a different area...
For me, the biggest monthly bill is the mortgage. But that's only the
biggest one I write a check for. Federal taxes - income and social
security - are bigger yet. Local property taxes (I guess that's more or
less the equivalent of your Concil Tax) come in third.