PING: Handi-Vac Users
Nancy2
supply of bags, you'd best start searching.
This device was the best thing since sliced bread for me - I don't
have room for a counter-top food saver. Damn. I hate when that
happens. None of my local stores has any bags left.
Reynolds' voice mail says it wasn't as successful as they had hoped -
well, no wonder, I never saw a commercial or an advertisement for it.
N.
pavane
"Nancy2" <nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:ae1c7981-dee3-4fd4...@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for the warning; on today's shopping list.
pavane
ffu
wrote:
-->Reynolds has discontinued the Handi-Vac and the bags. If you need a
-->supply of bags, you'd best start searching.
-->
-->This device was the best thing since sliced bread for me - I don't
-->have room for a counter-top food saver. Damn. I hate when that
-->happens. None of my local stores has any bags left.
-->
-->Reynolds' voice mail says it wasn't as successful as they had hoped -
-->well, no wonder, I never saw a commercial or an advertisement for it.
-->
-->N.
DecOsonic makes a nice one
Nancy2
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:04:24 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2 <nancy-doo...@uiowa.edu>
I've never heard of Decosonic - I Googled, but don't see any hand-
held ones, only counter-top.
Apparently, the Handi-Vac can be used with Ziploc brand vacuum bags
(they sell a hand-operated pump thingie) - with a little maneuvering.
I have another clue from someone who said FoodSaver is making a hand-
operated (small) unit. I'll have to check that out.
N.
Kalmia
Will nothing else fit or adapt?
Maybe the stuff will end up in a Big Lots??
Janet Wilder
The Reynolds bags started to become scarce here quite a while ago. I got
one of those Zip Lock hand pumps and I like it much better.
I have a small sized Food Saver. I don't like it. You have to pre-freeze
anything even slightly wet, like a steak, or it will break. I tried the
Reynolds thingie and it was okay but very, very noisy and slow. Then I
got the hand pump and I like it the best. There are usually coupons in
the paper to save on two Zip Lock packages of bags and I use them to get
more bags.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
Nancy2
I like the battery-operated Handi-Vac - wasn't ever slow for me,
although it did make some noise, it worked so fast, it wasn't a big
deal. Why stand there and push that stupid hand pump if you don't
have to? Each to own, I guess. I could also go back to sucking air
out with a straw, if it came to that....but plain ol' Ziplocs aren't
air-tight.
I ordered the hand-held FoodSaver (it's called "FreshSaver," I guess)
- they tout it as being for left-over deli meat and cheese, but if the
air stays sucked out, like it did in the Reynolds bags, there's no
reason it couldn't be used in the freezer to prevent freezer burn.
N.
Melba's Jammin'
<ae1c7981-dee3-4fd4...@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Nancy2 <nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote:
I like the Ziploc vac sealer more than I liked the Reynolds
battery-operated one. FWIW.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>
Nancy Young
> Reynolds has discontinued the Handi-Vac and the bags. If you need a
> supply of bags, you'd best start searching.
I looked for them in the store this morning, I would have sent them
to you if I'd seen them. no luck.
Isn't this kind of thing (discontinued) the type of stuff that winds
up in dollar stores?
nancy
brooklyn1
> Reynolds has discontinued the Handi-Vac and the bags. If you need a
> supply of bags, you'd best start searching.
>
>
My Black & Decker Dust Buster Doesn't need any bags, it has a paper
filter.
Pete C.
The pre-freezing is common to any vacuum bagging system, the only way to
avoid it is to use rigid containers. A Dewar of liquid nitrogen takes
care of the pre-freeze issue quite nicely, indeed I used it over the
weekend while making several hundred stuffed jalapenos for an upcoming
event.
Melba's Jammin'
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
> The pre-freezing is common to any vacuum bagging system, the only way to
> avoid it is to use rigid containers. A Dewar of liquid nitrogen takes
> care of the pre-freeze issue quite nicely, indeed I used it over the
> weekend while making several hundred stuffed jalapenos for an upcoming
> event.
What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
notbob
> What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
grapes so they shatter like glass. A dewar is basically just a big
thermos bottle that keeps the LN from boiling away for a couple hours.
If LN hits anyting at room temp, it boils off like a bead of water on
a red hot skillet.
nb
George Shirley
> In article <4aaed830$0$5849$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com>,
> "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>
>> The pre-freezing is common to any vacuum bagging system, the only way to
>> avoid it is to use rigid containers. A Dewar of liquid nitrogen takes
>> care of the pre-freeze issue quite nicely, indeed I used it over the
>> weekend while making several hundred stuffed jalapenos for an upcoming
>> event.
>
> What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
Dewar was the man who invented the flask used to contain liquid
nitrogen. Go here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_flask
Nearly every refinery or chemical lab has at least one of them in their
inventory.
Pete C.
Actually, my Dewar has an 100 day rated static hold time, but yes, a
Dewar is a very fancy thermos.
sf
I gave my son one when it was the talk of rfc and he LOVES it. To bad
his house isn't much larger than a standard postage stamp or he might
consider one of the fancy models. As it is, that won't happen. I
think Reynolds is being "penny wise and pound foolish".
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
jmcquown
news:ngeua5p19flml9oq8...@4ax.com...
"Penny wise and pound foolish" is a good way to put it. They did the same
thing with their perforated grilling sheets. They were perfect for grilling
fish (which when cooked through can fall apart and fall through the grates).
This company seems to make then stop making things all the time, without
ever advertising the product(s), as the OP stated.
Jill
Melba's Jammin'
notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
> On 2009-09-15, Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
>
> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
> grapes so they shatter like glass.
Yup, I knew that part.
> A dewar is basically just a big
> thermos bottle that keeps the LN from boiling away for a couple hours.
> If LN hits anyting at room temp, it boils off like a bead of water on
> a red hot skillet.
>
> nb
Thanks, nb.
brooklyn1
>
>Reynolds' voice mail says it wasn't as successful as they had hoped -
>well, no wonder, I never saw a commercial or an advertisement for it.
>
Actually they ran out of ignoranus customers, so advertising would be
putting good money after bad.
Guess it took a while for Reynolds to figure out that normal brained
folks would rather keep their assets in the form of cold hard cash in
a savings bank than as hunks of animal flesh in their freezer...
'when/if one can' think about it there is nothing more low IQ than
freezing like a year's worth of meat (or any food). In the US there
is no food shortage and there are sales every day. Reynolds gave it a
shot because their consumer products line is gasping for breath. With
the advent of plastic wrap folks aren't buying nearly as much aluminum
foil as they once did, and with all the recloseable packaging
nowadasys, and all the eating out, folks are using less plastic wrap
than ever. I've no idea why folks would even consider spending all
that money on a machine that sucks, expensive packaging supplies, and
on energy to run a big freezer when fresh meat in the US is available
24/7/365.25.... they have to be obsessed with the an abject fear of
running out of food, there is no other rational explanation. I'd much
rather the stupidmarket pay to storage my perishables.... we're paying
their refrigeration, and 'lectric bill anyway, may as well get the
benefit. If there was any utility whatsoever in those silly food
saver gizmos the stupidmarkets would be happy to give them gratis to
every customer so as to reduce their own perishables storage costs, in
fact they would use them themeslves, it doesn't and they don't. Don't
yoose morons think that if they really served a utile purpose
butchers, fish mongers, etc. would include one free with a $500
purchase. And no one that lives within 50 miles of a stupidmarket
needs a stand alone freezer.
Melba's Jammin'
"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Penny wise and pound foolish" is a good way to put it. They did the same
> thing with their perforated grilling sheets. They were perfect for grilling
> fish (which when cooked through can fall apart and fall through the grates).
> This company seems to make then stop making things all the time, without
> ever advertising the product(s), as the OP stated.
>
> Jill
I've seen ads for both the Reynolds unit (not recently, but when it was
introduced) and the Ziploc unit. Generally, they were Sunday coupon
insert booklets.
sf
wrote:
>"Penny wise and pound foolish" is a good way to put it. They did the same
>thing with their perforated grilling sheets. They were perfect for grilling
>fish (which when cooked through can fall apart and fall through the grates).
>This company seems to make then stop making things all the time, without
>ever advertising the product(s), as the OP stated.
I can only think that they did it on purpose to take a loss on their
books. What else could it be?
Nancy2
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pre-freezing what??? I've never "pre-frozen" anything for a vacuum
bag, and my frozen stuff has worked just great. I don't get what
you're talking about. (OTOH, I vacuum pack stuff that doesn't squish
out of shape....)
N.
sf
didn't someone say ZipLock makes one they thought was better? Is that
another item to find at Target?
Nancy2
Not at mine, it's usually Big Lots that gets discontinued stuff, but
our Big Lots went away a couple years ago.
N.
Nancy2
The Handi-Vac is a food vacuum device. Do you store your food in your
Dust Buster?
N.
Default User
> On 2009-09-15, Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
>
> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
> grapes so they shatter like glass.
Back when I was a young Physics major, guys who worked in the laser lab
would sometimes swipe Dewars of LN. All kinds of fun, like freezing up
the components of someone's lunch or crumbling up frozen rubberbands.
Brian
--
Day 225 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
James Silverton
>> On 2009-09-15, Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
> >> What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
>>
>> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly
>> freezes grapes so they shatter like glass.
> Back when I was a young Physics major, guys who worked in the
> laser lab would sometimes swipe Dewars of LN. All kinds of
> fun, like freezing up the components of someone's lunch or
> crumbling up frozen rubberbands.
The, usually mirrored, double walled flask to hold low temperature
liquids is called a Dewar flask. It's not really any different from
kitchen vacuum flasks except that it has no cover. Sir James Dewar, who
invented it, was a nineteenth scientist, famous for many things and
especially for liquefying gases.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Doug Freyburger
> notbob wrote:
>
>> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
>> grapes so they shatter like glass.
You can use an insulated cooler to freeze items with
LN2. It does not last as long as in a dewar but if
you're freezing grapes how long do you need.
> Back when I was a young Physics major, guys who worked in the laser lab
> would sometimes swipe Dewars of LN. All kinds of fun, like freezing up
> the components of someone's lunch or crumbling up frozen rubberbands.
The biggest thing I've seen frozen is a pumpkin. Keep
pouring LN2 over it daily for a month until it is as
hard as ceramic. Then at midnight on Halloween carry
the pumpkin up to the 9th floor and toss it onto a stone
landing. The crash is amazing - sharp shards of pumpkin
all over the place that quickly thaw and turn soft. More
fun than making pumpkin soup but not as good tasting.
Default User
> Default User wrote:
> > notbob wrote:
> >
> > > Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
> > > grapes so they shatter like glass.
>
> You can use an insulated cooler to freeze items with
> LN2. It does not last as long as in a dewar but if
> you're freezing grapes how long do you need.
You could freeze strawberries for storage. Make Alton Brown's dry ice
method look slow as molasses in February.
Mike Beede
Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Default User wrote:
> > notbob wrote:
> >
> >> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly freezes
> >> grapes so they shatter like glass.
>
> You can use an insulated cooler to freeze items with
> LN2. It does not last as long as in a dewar but if
> you're freezing grapes how long do you need.
I tried carbonating root beer for a party a couple weeks
ago with dry ice. It was a big hit--very dramatic,
with the bubbling, and the fogging, and the so-forth.
I was surprised to find that there was a place in North
East Minneapolis that appeared to sell three things:
dry ice, smokes, and beer. $1.39 a pound and you
bring the cooler.
But where would a civilian non-Bill-Nye kind of person
go to get liquid nitrogen, and what could you carry it
in over the short term? I assume an ordinary thermos
where you screw the plastic top on would have at least
three bad failure modes (excessive heat leakage, top
freezing and breaking, and explosion). Next party I
could try that instant ice cream trick . . . .
Mike Beede
Janet Wilder
With the small Food Saver you have to be careful of too much liquid
coming into the sealer. I broke my first one that way. The second one
came with a video and it said either to put a wad of paper toweling at
the top of the bag or to pre-freeze the food. I could not vacuum seal a
rib eye without either pre-freezing or wadding up paper towels between
the steak and the top of the bag.
I don't know if the larger model is different but that's the way the
smaller model works and, IMNSHO, it's not my idea of a smart kitchen
tool. When I bring my meat home from Sam's Club, I don't want to first
have to pre-freeze it or wad up paper toweling so I can vacuum seal it
with an expensive gizmo when I can pop it into a bag, stick a little
pump on it and with two or three pumps, I'm done.
I hope you get it now.
Dan Abel
Mike Beede <be...@thunderlobster.com> wrote:
I believe that liquid nitrogen is a byproduct of the production of pure
oxygen from air. They freeze the air to a liquid and then distill the
oxygen. The nitrogen is left (or something like that). Places that
sell gases will often sell liquid nitrogen, and fairly cheaply,
depending on amount. I believe they don't sell it unless you have the
correct container. I don't know if you have to buy it (expensive) or if
the places that sell the nitrogen will rent a container, with sufficient
deposit. This came up on another group, I don't remember which. I
believe it was suggested to let your fingers do the walking (look in the
yellow pages of your phone book).
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
RegForte
>
> I believe that liquid nitrogen is a byproduct of the production of pure
> oxygen from air. They freeze the air to a liquid and then distill the
> oxygen. The nitrogen is left (or something like that). Places that
> sell gases will often sell liquid nitrogen, and fairly cheaply,
> depending on amount. I believe they don't sell it unless you have the
> correct container. I don't know if you have to buy it (expensive) or if
> the places that sell the nitrogen will rent a container, with sufficient
> deposit. This came up on another group, I don't remember which. I
> believe it was suggested to let your fingers do the walking (look in the
> yellow pages of your phone book).
>
PraxAir - that have locations all over
<http://www.praxair.com/na/us/praxairSL.nsf/StoresLoc>
Seriously though, this stuff can be extremely dangerous if mishandled.
That said, it's really fun to play with!
--
Reg
Sqwertz
> Seriously though, this stuff can be extremely dangerous if mishandled.
> That said, it's really fun to play with!
Yeah, yeah. Sure, it's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt.
Then it's fucking hillarious!
-sw
RegForte
Heck, it's what youtube was made for.
For those not wishing to risk death, much fun can also be had
with plain ol dry ice. All kinds of possibilities there.
Use it to keep the food cold at parties, then flood the house or
yard with fog for an exciting climax to the evening. Strobes and/or
colored lights are optional, and they really enhance the effect.
--
Reg
Phil..c
WARNING
Please unless in a properly controlled environment
and required knowledge and safety instruction by professionals
DON'T PLAY with this stuff .
Many cases of Death and sever injuries even where people who ought
to know the dangers end up dead ,blinded cold burns explosions and
much more .
One pretty spectacular incident a few years ago I recall happened
either in UK or Scandinavia couple of folks dead and the building
wrecked .Early 70s' I think
It can be a very insidious killer as in stopping you breathing .
*please* dont *play* with the stuff .
We have it here and the paperwork alone is substantial. Maybe the
folks you cite and US laws are not into nanny state as much as here .
But with this gas although benign when use properly would not like to
see any one from RFC get hurt because of such a post as above .
Pete C.
Actually, dry ice is more dangerous than liquid nitrogen. LN2 is colder,
however when it touches your skin it boils and forms an insulating gas
layer. This is why you can do the demo of rolling a bead of LN2 in the
palm of your hand. Dry ice, being solid will more readily give your
frostbite if you touch it. Either one boils or sublimates into gas that
can displace oxygen, but you'd need to be in a pretty small, non
ventilated room for that to be a problem.
I get my LN2 at Airgas. Dewars can be found on ebay at decent prices.
Pete C.
No US laws I know of regarding LN2. MSDS available, but that's about it.
RegForte
>
> Actually, dry ice is more dangerous than liquid nitrogen. LN2 is colder,
> however when it touches your skin it boils and forms an insulating gas
> layer. This is why you can do the demo of rolling a bead of LN2 in the
> palm of your hand. Dry ice, being solid will more readily give your
> frostbite if you touch it. Either one boils or sublimates into gas that
> can displace oxygen, but you'd need to be in a pretty small, non
> ventilated room for that to be a problem.
>
> I get my LN2 at Airgas. Dewars can be found on ebay at decent prices.
My kinda guy
1> He plays with liquid nitro
2> He has like a 50 ton press in his home shop
On another happy note, I'm pretty sure there's some Doctor (not Kevorkian)
who developed a suicide machine that uses liquid nitrogen. Must be what has
that other fella so worried for us all :)
--
Reg
sf
<kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I don't want to first
>have to pre-freeze it or wad up paper toweling so I can vacuum seal it
>with an expensive gizmo when I can pop it into a bag, stick a little
>pump on it and with two or three pumps, I'm done.
Huh! My son has never talked about using paper towels.
Sqwertz
> My kinda guy
>
> 1> He plays with liquid nitro
> 2> He has like a 50 ton press in his home shop
What kind of culinary use can the press be used for? Other than
really thin grilled cheese sandwiches (assuming it's a hot press).
-sw
James Silverton
If someone has not been taught a little of the dangers of ultra-cold
gases, it is well to leave them alone because of the risk of serious
"burns". I wouldn't work with them without a face shield. Nor would I
like to get a small piece of dry ice (solid CO2) in my eye and
dermatologists used to remove warts etc. by burning them with dry ice.
They now seem to use liquid nitrogen and a few seconds application
causes blistering. Liquid oxygen is a very dangerous substance because
it can cause explosions by explosively burning organic materials. In
passing, mixtures of gasoline and O2 were used as explosives when the
Italian-Swiss Simplon tunnel was excavated.
Nancy2
>
> - Show quoted text -
The only time I had a liquid problem with the Handi-Vac, it was for
sliced fresh strawberries that were a little bit juicy. Fortunately,
I stopped in time and the clear plastic housing on the suction end of
the Handi-Vac can be removed for cleaning.
In any event, it sounds like the Ziploc pump is also being
discontinued.
N.
notbob
> believe it was suggested to let your fingers do the walking (look in the
> yellow pages of your phone book).
It's not cheap and it's not convenient. You usually have to buy it by
the hundreds of liters because even if you buy a hundred plus liters
in a multi thousand dollar container (usually leased) it boils off in
a few days. You might be able to go to a dealer and ask for a thermos
full, but I doubt it. Probably have a better chance if you had a
friend at a college with a science dept or hospital or someone in the
IC wafer industry.
Even a cheap dewar costs in the hundreds of dollars. The science
industry is not cheap. Blatant price gouging is fact of life. It's
why our health care costs are out of control.
nb
notbob
> Seriously though, this stuff can be extremely dangerous if mishandled.
> That said, it's really fun to play with!
Actually, it's pretty forgiving. You can pour some in the palm of
your hand and it just bubbles off. About the only time you can hurt
yourself is if you spill it on your clothing. It freezes cloth
instantly and then will absorb long enough to burn you. You would
actually be safer a handling it while completely naked! ;)
nb
notbob
> RegForte wrote:
>> Seriously though, this stuff can be extremely dangerous if mishandled.
>> That said, it's really fun to play with!
> WARNING
> Please unless in a properly controlled environment
> and required knowledge and safety instruction by professionals
>
> DON'T PLAY with this stuff .
>
> Many cases of Death and sever injuries
Musta been a buncha real dodo heads. I worked with gallons of the
stuff, often in open containers, every day for over 25 yrs and never
got so much as a frost burn. Never heard of the other thousands of
ppl also using having any problems. I guess if you locked yourself in
a sealed closet and poured it over yourself while fully clothed in
sweats, you'd surely be in deep doodoo.
nb
Gloria P
> I
>
> I believe that liquid nitrogen is a byproduct of the production of pure
> oxygen from air. They freeze the air to a liquid and then distill the
> oxygen. The nitrogen is left (or something like that). Places that
> sell gases will often sell liquid nitrogen, and fairly cheaply,
> depending on amount. I believe they don't sell it unless you have the
> correct container. I don't know if you have to buy it (expensive) or if
> the places that sell the nitrogen will rent a container, with sufficient
> deposit. This came up on another group, I don't remember which. I
> believe it was suggested to let your fingers do the walking (look in the
> yellow pages of your phone book).
>
When I worked in the science dept at our high school I used to order a
dewar of liquid nitrogen every fall to be shared among the chemistry
teachers for a few weeks' worth of lab experiments. It was available
from vendors of industrial gases. The dewar was nearly 5 ft. tall and I
believe we had to put a deposit on it to be refunded when they picked it
up again. IIRC the teachers decanted it into small styrofoam coolers
for each class or demonstration use. We rarely used the full dewar's
worth but that was the only size available.
They also exchanged or refilled (just like your home LP tanks) the other
tanks of gases we used in the labs. (We owned the other tanks which were
smaller, less costly, and used throughout the year.)
gloria p
Pete C.
notbob wrote:
>
> On 2009-09-16, Dan Abel <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > believe it was suggested to let your fingers do the walking (look in the
> > yellow pages of your phone book).
>
> It's not cheap
Wrong, $1 / liter
> and it's not convenient.
My local Airgas branch is 10 min away and always has plenty of LN2 on
hand.
> You usually have to buy it by
> the hundreds of liters
I buy 25 liters at a time, my Dewar capacity.
> because even if you buy a hundred plus liters
> in a multi thousand dollar container (usually leased) it boils off in
> a few days.
My 25 liter Dewar has a 100 day static hold time rating. x
> You might be able to go to a dealer and ask for a thermos
> full, but I doubt it. Probably have a better chance if you had a
> friend at a college with a science dept or hospital or someone in the
> IC wafer industry.
Probably true, the gas suppliers like to only fill proper rated
containers for liability reasons. An all stainless thermos with the cap
on loosely or a small vent hole drilled in it does make a reasonably
container if you get LN2 from a friend.
>
> Even a cheap dewar costs in the hundreds of dollars.
My TW LD25 with liquid withdrawal setup used but in mint condition cost
me $250 including shipping.
> The science
> industry is not cheap. Blatant price gouging is fact of life.
E-Bay still has it's uses.
> It's
> why our health care costs are out of control.
Actually it's mostly due to corrupt insurance companies.
notbob
> Wrong, $1 / liter
Where can you buy one liter?
> My 25 liter Dewar has a 100 day static hold time rating. x
rating != fact
> My TW LD25 with liquid withdrawal setup used but in mint condition cost
> me $250 including shipping.
Yeah, that's cheap. I'll run right out and buy two so I can play around.
> E-Bay still has it's uses.
Middle managers are idiots.
> Actually it's mostly due to corrupt insurance companies.
My insurance company didn't charge $1300 dollars for 18 mins of oxygen.
It payed it.
nb
Pete C.
Yes, the gas suppliers only have the real big Dewars, but you can
readily buy a more convenient size Dewar (like my LD25) and they will
fill it. They don't have any metering equipment, so the have to just
fill to the Dewar capacity and charge for that, though they will
generally guestimate a fill of a partially full Dewar.
Gloria P
A human popsicle? Not a pleasant thought.
gloria p
Pete C.
notbob wrote:
>
> On 2009-09-16, Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>
> > Wrong, $1 / liter
>
> Where can you buy one liter?
Airgas, presuming you show up with a 1 liter Dewar.
>
> > My 25 liter Dewar has a 100 day static hold time rating. x
>
> rating != fact
Yes, it does. My 25 liter Dewar was last filled August 28th, since that
time I have used quite a bit of LN2 making ice cream and freezing
stuffed jalapenos. As of right now I estimate I have used about 15
liters or more and have around 5 liters left in the Dewar some 19 days
later.
>
> > My TW LD25 with liquid withdrawal setup used but in mint condition cost
> > me $250 including shipping.
>
> Yeah, that's cheap. I'll run right out and buy two so I can play around.
Cheap is relative to your entertainment budget. I've certainly had more
than $250 worth of fun with this Dewar already and still going. In fact
I have to fill it today or tomorrow morning for a weekend trip with some
friends.
>
> > E-Bay still has it's uses.
>
> Middle managers are idiots.
Eh?
>
> > Actually it's mostly due to corrupt insurance companies.
>
> My insurance company didn't charge $1300 dollars for 18 mins of oxygen.
> It payed it.
That charge was the result of the corrupt activities of the insurance
companies, even if the charge was not directly from them. The way the
insurance companies manipulate payments leaves providers no choice but
to try to recover costs elsewhere i.e. from you.
I have my own O2 setup, good for about 2 hours supply and it cost me
about $300.
Pete C.
You'd need quite a bit of LN2 for that. With a normal portable sized
Dewar in the 25l range the most you'd do is get some nasty frostbite
which wouldn't matter after you suffocated from the nitrogen displacing
the air/oxygen in the closet.
Omelet
notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
It must not be too expensive. My Dr. keeps some on hand in her office.
She uses it to freeze off moles and stuff. She froze a mole off of my
back a few years ago.
It didn't even hurt much, just stung slightly when she applied it and a
little after it thawed out.
And it worked.
--
Peace! Om
"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein
recfood...@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: recfoodrecip...@yahoogroups.com
notbob
> Airgas, presuming you show up with a 1 liter Dewar.
We had as small 375ml dewars. Everyone used 'em as coffee cups. As
for buying, you musta had an Airgas desparate for business. Our local
Airgas dealer woulda laughed you off the dock for anything less than
100l. ;)
>> > My 25 liter Dewar has a 100 day static hold time rating. x
>>
>> rating != fact
>
> Yes, it does. My 25 liter Dewar was last filled August 28th, since that
> time I have used quite a bit of LN2 making ice cream and freezing
> stuffed jalapenos. As of right now I estimate I have used about 15
> liters or more and have around 5 liters left in the Dewar some 19 days
> later.
Mayby they're making 'em a whole lot better these days. Get back to
us in another 81 days. I never seen a dewar, even the big 240l SS
jobbies from Airgas last longer than 3-4 weeks, FULL.
> Cheap is relative to your entertainment budget. I've certainly had more
> than $250 worth of fun with this Dewar already and still going. In fact
> I have to fill it today or tomorrow morning for a weekend trip with some
> friends.
You are obviously easily entertained. ;)
> That charge was the result of the corrupt activities of the insurance
> companies, even if the charge was not directly from them. The way the
> insurance companies manipulate payments leaves providers no choice but
> to try to recover costs elsewhere i.e. from you.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I know exactly how much and
precisely when my insurance company made the payments and they left no
one in the lurch. In fact, the problem was with the ambulance
companies (3) and half the health care ppl who kept billing everyone
in sight except my insurance company. It's taken me months to
straighten out the mess, my insurance company doggedly hanging in
there while we both track down these morons who'd rather toss the bill
at a collection agency than find out who to actually get paid by.
In fact, if my experience with health care in the last 10 mos is any
indication, I'd have to say one of the biggest factors with the
totally insane health care costs are the complete morons that populate
the billing depts of all and any health care institution you can name.
Chimpanzees could do a better job.
As an example, we have a brand spanking new hospital in one of our
local towns. New everything, including brand new computers on every
desk or even anything resembling a counter top. After my mom suffered
a fractured knee cap and was admitted, I got over a dozen calls from
almost as many depts asking for billing information. One dept even
phoned three times in a single day, a different person each time! I
got so frustrated I asked the last one, "Does anyone use those
computers I see laying around by the dozen? Do you ppl even talk to
each other?"
It was the same all down the line of three ambulance services, 3
hospitals (had to move to diff hosp for surgery), xray services,
doctors, etc. They all knew precisely where my mom should go to rack
up those insane charges, but not a damn one of them could be bothered
to pass along the correct billing info. I'm still straigtening it
out, and my insurance company had not one wit to do with this ongoing
colossal cluster fsck!
Grrrrr..... now I'm all riled up. :\
nb
blake murphy
> On Sep 14, 2:48�pm, brooklyn1 <gravesen...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Nancy2 wrote:
>>> Reynolds has discontinued the Handi-Vac and the bags. �If you need a
>>> supply of bags, you'd best start searching.
>>
>> My Black & Decker Dust Buster Doesn't need any bags, it has a paper
>> filter.
>
> The Handi-Vac is a food vacuum device. Do you store your food in your
> Dust Buster?
>
> N.
most likely.
your pal,
blake
Pete C.
notbob wrote:
>
> On 2009-09-16, Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>
> > Airgas, presuming you show up with a 1 liter Dewar.
>
> We had as small 375ml dewars. Everyone used 'em as coffee cups. As
> for buying, you musta had an Airgas desparate for business. Our local
> Airgas dealer woulda laughed you off the dock for anything less than
> 100l. ;)
Just back from Airgas a few minutes ago. Another 25 liters of LN2, $25,
$27.06 with tax. Never had a problem.
>
> >> > My 25 liter Dewar has a 100 day static hold time rating. x
> >>
> >> rating != fact
> >
> > Yes, it does. My 25 liter Dewar was last filled August 28th, since that
> > time I have used quite a bit of LN2 making ice cream and freezing
> > stuffed jalapenos. As of right now I estimate I have used about 15
> > liters or more and have around 5 liters left in the Dewar some 19 days
> > later.
>
> Mayby they're making 'em a whole lot better these days. Get back to
> us in another 81 days. I never seen a dewar, even the big 240l SS
> jobbies from Airgas last longer than 3-4 weeks, FULL.
Historically this one has indeed lasted a couple months, even with me
using a modest amount of the LN2.
>
> > Cheap is relative to your entertainment budget. I've certainly had more
> > than $250 worth of fun with this Dewar already and still going. In fact
> > I have to fill it today or tomorrow morning for a weekend trip with some
> > friends.
>
> You are obviously easily entertained. ;)
As are my friends, especially after they discovered alka-dots (alcoholic
equivalent of Dippin' Dots).
Well, my limited medical activities and insurance interactions have been
pretty uneventful. Good luck with yours.
blake murphy
> Default wrote on 15 Sep 2009 17:38:13 GMT:
>
>>> On 2009-09-15, Melba's Jammin' <barbsc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is a "Dewar of liquid nitrogen"? IMWTK.
>>>
>>> Liquid nitrogen is that super cold liquid that instantly
>>> freezes grapes so they shatter like glass.
>
>> Back when I was a young Physics major, guys who worked in the
>> laser lab would sometimes swipe Dewars of LN. All kinds of
>> fun, like freezing up the components of someone's lunch or
>> crumbling up frozen rubberbands.
>
> The, usually mirrored, double walled flask to hold low temperature
> liquids is called a Dewar flask. It's not really any different from
> kitchen vacuum flasks except that it has no cover. Sir James Dewar, who
> invented it, was a nineteenth scientist, famous for many things and
> especially for liquefying gases.
many, many years ago i had a wart on my finger frozen off with liquid
nitrogen. the dermatologist had it in a thermos bottle indistinguishable
from one in which he might have brought coffee to work.
your pal,
blake
Gloria P
> In article <slrnhb2188...@myvai2.notbob.com>,
> notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Even a cheap dewar costs in the hundreds of dollars. The science
>> industry is not cheap. Blatant price gouging is fact of life. It's
>> why our health care costs are out of control.
>>
>> nb
>
> It must not be too expensive. My Dr. keeps some on hand in her office.
> She uses it to freeze off moles and stuff. She froze a mole off of my
> back a few years ago.
>
> It didn't even hurt much, just stung slightly when she applied it and a
> little after it thawed out.
>
> And it worked.
I've had that done, too. My doctor's office has a dewar about the size
of a commercial fire extinguisher. As far as expensive or not, I notice
that removing one small skin tag on my neck where it was irritated added
$50 to the bill, and this doctor isn't particularly a gouger when it
comes to price.
gloria p
Gloria P
>
> In fact, if my experience with health care in the last 10 mos is any
> indication, I'd have to say one of the biggest factors with the
> totally insane health care costs are the complete morons that populate
> the billing depts of all and any health care institution you can name.
> Chimpanzees could do a better job.
>
I believe you are right except it's nothing new.
In 1988 I spent most of a Saturday with my son at Children's Hospital
in Denver in outpatient ICU where he was under observation for a
concussion (soccer tournament.) I gave half a dozen people our
insurance and financial information.
Over two years later I received a call from a collection agency
wanting $35 plus fees for the "unpaid co-payment". Huh? I called the
billing department to remind them that they had NEVER sent me a bill or
asked for the co-payment when Son was there.
Incredible.
gloria p
notbob
> billing department to remind them that they had NEVER sent me a bill or
> asked for the co-payment when Son was there.
>
> Incredible.
It's beyond incredible, it's criminal. The whole thing is due to
laziness enabled by legal irresponsibility. You can bet your buttons
they'd be right on top of it if they could be held responsible for
improper billing, as in your not having to pay because of their screw
ups. But, they just pass it on to a collection agency which puts the
onus on you to save your credit rating, all because they don't give a
damn.
nb
Pete C.
I pay $1 / liter for LN2 at my Airgas branch. A dermatologist would be
on a regular scheduled delivery / refill plan, so probably slightly more
for the extra service.
$50 doesn't seem unreasonable for the doctors time to assess the
problem, treat it with the LN2, process the paperwork, pay the office
staff, electric bill, rent, etc. The cost of the LN2 is minimal, just
like the cost of alcohol, cotton balls, etc.
notbob
>> $50 to the bill, and this doctor isn't particularly a gouger when it
>> comes to price.
> $50 doesn't seem unreasonable for the doctors time to assess the
> problem, treat it with the LN2, process the paperwork, pay the office
> staff, electric bill, rent, etc. The cost of the LN2 is minimal, just
> like the cost of alcohol, cotton balls, etc.
That's a bargain. Last time I went it was $150.
The real trick is finding a doc who knows what (s)he is doing. I've
known a few in my day and the bad one's are hacks, while the good
one's are jewels. I had one butcher remove a pea-sized blemish and he
froze a patch the size of a quarter which left a crater as deep as the
thickness of a quarter. I had that crater dead center in my forehead
for almost 2 yrs before it finally grew/filled back in. My last
dermatologist was a jewel. A petite little Indian lady who had the
master's touch with an LN squirt gun. She removed a quarter sized
blemish and the scab was gone in a week, with no crater at all. I'd
have paid her anything she wanted to charge.
nb
Pete C.
The moral of that story is that it pays to shop around. Doctors are not
all clones out of med school, they vary greatly, and if there is
something you don't like about one, confront them on it, after all they
are just business people, and if they won't rectify the problem shop
around for a new doc. I did that with allergists, found one near me,
didn't get along well with him, fired him, searched some more and found
one I really like.
Omelet
Gloria P <gpue...@comcast.net> wrote:
I think it'd probably be considered a surgical procedure. ;-) They
charge the going rate...
Gloria P
> Gloria P wrote:
>> I've had that done, too. My doctor's office has a dewar about the size
>> of a commercial fire extinguisher. As far as expensive or not, I notice
>> that removing one small skin tag on my neck where it was irritated added
>> $50 to the bill, and this doctor isn't particularly a gouger when it
>> comes to price.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> I pay $1 / liter for LN2 at my Airgas branch. A dermatologist would be
> on a regular scheduled delivery / refill plan, so probably slightly more
> for the extra service.
>
> $50 doesn't seem unreasonable for the doctors time to assess the
> problem, treat it with the LN2, process the paperwork, pay the office
> staff, electric bill, rent, etc. The cost of the LN2 is minimal, just
> like the cost of alcohol, cotton balls, etc.
Not a dermatologist, a GP when I was there for an annual exam.
Note I said "added $50 to the bill". I was in the office already
for an appointment. The annoying thing is that my insurance
rejected that charge in the bill because it was not a "pre-authorized
procedure." so I had to pay it in addition to my co-pay.
Tell me again how wunnerful American private health insurance is....
gloria p
Pete C.
My private health insurance is just peachy. They have covered everything
I needed without any issues.
modom (palindrome guy)
I was billed by a firm representing an emergency room doctor a few
years ago. I have insurance. I had the paperwork indicating the bill
had been paid by my insurance. I called the doctor's firm and told
them so.
They were not assuaged. They began calling me about the outstanding
bill, always polite, always assuring me the process would work itself
out. This went on for months. At one point they asked me for the check
number my insurance paid them with. As though I was their bookkeeper!
At another point they insisted I lived in a nearby town. That they had
made a mistake was not on the table. On the table very long after I
put it there numerous times, that is. Even when I pointed out their
error about my legal address. Even sending them a copy of the
insurance notification of payment was not satisfactory.
Eventually I told a caller not to call me again. "The bill was paid. I
don't want to hear from you again"
"I'll have my supervisor call you about this."
"I don't want to hear from you again. I don't want to hear from your
supervisor. I don't want to hear from your mother. Goodbye."
Apparently rage was evident in my tone because our daughter came in
from another room and asked if everything was okay.
A few weeks later I received notice that the bill was paid. The date
of payment was not the date on my insurance document. It was the day
after that last call. Six months later.
The really crummy thing about the whole affair was the very likely
probability that everybody involved was some sort of trained health
care professional. Except me. But I was the only one who was right.
AND it happened again! This time a collection agency called about
another bill. I checked with the hospital and was assured it had been
paid. So the next time the SOB's called me, I told them they were
committing wire fraud and threatened to report them to the
authorities.
After that peace.
--
modom
Dan Abel
"modom (palindrome guy)" <use...@michaelodom.net> wrote:
> The really crummy thing about the whole affair was the very likely
> probability that everybody involved was some sort of trained health
> care professional. Except me. But I was the only one who was right.
I belong to an HMO. There is no billing and very little paperwork.
They just take care of stuff. My retirement system sends them money
every month, and they give my wife and I medical care. It's pretty nice.
I was out of town a few years back and needed medical care. My HMO pays
that, but now they are like an insurance company. It was about
US$10,000 between the hospital and the surgeon. It took most of a year
for them to pay. We got bills every month from the hospital. They were
stamped "Information only. Do not pay. We have billed your
insurance.". That was fine. The doctor didn't get paid any sooner.
Nobody at the doctor's office would talk to my wife about it. They
contracted out all billing, insurance and bookkeeping. They were
trained medical professionals (well, one was the receptionist), and
didn't deal with money.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Doug Weller
>I dashed to my local grocery store today to snatch up as many Handi-Vac
>bags as I could find. Sadly, there were none; however, there was a bunch of
>Handi-Vacs. Next to them were the ZipLock pumps, marked discontinued and
>next to that the ZipLock pump bags in quart and gallon sizes. I decided to
>experiment and grabbed a box of quart ZipLock bags to try with my Handi-Vac
>pump.
>
>At home, I shoved have a bagel into a ZipLock bag and positioned the
>Handi-Vac over the valve. It tooka bit of shifting and wiggling to find the
>sweet-spot; however, I did succeed in pulling a vacuum. I'll check it in a
>few hours and if the vacuum holds, I think I've found a way to continue
>using my Handi-Vac.
But you say the pumps were marked discontinued - doesn't that suggest
they'll discontinue the bags?
Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/
Nancy2
> Actually they ran out of ignoranus customers, so advertising would be
> putting good money after bad.
> Guess it took a while for Reynolds to figure out that normal brained
> folks would rather keep their assets in the form of cold hard cash in
> a savings bank than as hunks of animal flesh in their freezer...
> 'when/if one can' think about it there is nothing more low IQ than
> freezing like a year's worth of meat (or any food). In the US there
> is no food shortage and there are sales every day. Reynolds gave it a
There's nothing like jumping to a conclusion and making sweeping
generalizations to prove your point.
FYI, I seldom used mine for meat - I use it for things like cookies
that I make a whole batch of, and since there's only one of me, I like
to freeze the extras in take-home sizes for when the grandkids are
over. I also freeze leftovers in the hand-vacuum sealed bags. The
gizmo cost $10, and came with 6 AA batteries. I don't call that a big
waste, even if it is now discontinued - I have used mine with great
success for over a year, and have certainly gotten my money's worth.
When I use part of an onion, I store the rest in the hand-vacuum bag
because there is absolutely no odor and it lasts a long time. The
same with shredded cabbage, which stays fresh for a long time. I must
have weird supermarkets, because I can't buy just a single portion of
cabbage (and it's never on the salad deli buffet counter).
As to protein, I live within 7 miles of 3 different supermarkets, but
it's easier to go once a week than drive around every day or every
other day to food shop. Who does that, with gas costing as much as it
does? I buy whole cod or salmon filets, portion them out and seal
them in the hand-vacuum bags - for some reason, the fish counter guy
doesn't want to cut one 3 or 4-oz. portion off a whole filet....
Each to his/her own, and all that. I would never invest in a counter-
top one because I don't want to clutter up my counter, and they aren't
as convenient to use as the hand-held ones (which fit inside a
cupboard very easily).
N.
brooklyn1
<nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Actually they ran out of ignoranus customers, so advertising would be
>> putting good money after bad.
>> Guess it took a while for Reynolds to figure out that normal brained
>> folks would rather keep their assets in the form of cold hard cash in
>> a savings bank than as hunks of animal flesh in their freezer...
>> 'when/if one can' think about it there is nothing more low IQ than
>> freezing like a year's worth of meat (or any food). � In the US there
>> is no food shortage and there are sales every day. �Reynolds gave it a
>
>There's nothing like jumping to a conclusion and making sweeping
>generalizations to prove your point.
I made no generalizatiuons, sweeping or otherwise... show me where moi
ever beats around the bush.
>
>FYI, I seldom used mine for meat - I use it for things like cookies
>that I make a whole batch of, and since there's only one of me, I like
>to freeze the extras in take-home sizes for when the grandkids are
>over.
That's just plain silly... cookies and such will stay fresh for months
in an ordinary zip-loc, inside a tin if yer really ascared the boogie
man will get em.
>When I use part of an onion, I store the rest in the hand-vacuum bag
>because there is absolutely no odor and it lasts a long time.
Folks with a functioning brain choose onions sized for the job... once
they're cut onions begin to ferment immediately regardless how you
wrap them... there is never a reason to save cut raw onion, NEVER!
>The same with shredded cabbage, which stays fresh for a long time. I must
>have weird supermarkets, because I can't buy just a single portion of
>cabbage (and it's never on the salad deli buffet counter).
Cabbage will keep in the fridge for like 3-4 months in an ordinary
*ventilated* plastic bag... just poke a few holes in a plastic
stupidmarket bag.... and if yer gonna freeze cabbage to store at least
have the sense to cook it first... like stuffed cabbage is good frozen
for a year in an ordinary zip-loc... I freeze cabbage soup in ordinary
plastic containers for *years*, no deterioration.
>As to protein, I live within 7 miles of 3 different supermarkets, but
>it's easier to go once a week than drive around every day or every
>other day to food shop. Who does that, with gas costing as much as it
>does? I buy whole cod or salmon filets, portion them out and seal
>them in the hand-vacuum bags - for some reason, the fish counter guy
>doesn't want to cut one 3 or 4-oz. portion off a whole filet....
Hardly anyone shops every day anymore, but meats will store perfectly
in the freezer for up to six months in ordinary wrappings; butcher
paper and a zip-loc... if you're gonna use it within two months the
stupidmarket styrofoam tray and plastic wrap is fine. I would never
consider freezing fresh fish.. if a great sale I'd cook it first and
then freeze it. Cooked foods take up much less freezer space anyway,
and store longer... and then just need reheating.
>Each to his/her own, and all that. I would never invest in a counter-
>top one because I don't want to clutter up my counter, and they aren't
>as convenient to use as the hand-held ones (which fit inside a
>cupboard very easily).
Unless an appliance is used like every day, every two days maybe,
there is no reason to have it out on the counter... put it in a coat
closet, under a couch... but there's no sane/logical reason to
consider either... only folks psychiatrically obsessed with running
out of food/going hungry feel compelled to store food that they think
will out last the pyramids.
It's very stupid to store large amounts of perishables, so what if you
fill up a fridge freezer and a chest freezer, what do you save when
there's a power outage. Even without a power outage, with that much
food there will be foods that still spoil when held that long, so
there can never be any monetary savings. And freezing expensive
tender cuts is really dumb, freezing lowers those steaks/roasts at
least one full USDA Grade.
Anyone who lives within 7 miles of three supermarkets and feels
compelled to stockpile food is mentally ill, not just a tetch,
SEVERELY!
Nancy2
> >> 'when/if one can' think about it there is nothing more low IQ than
> >> freezing like a year's worth of meat (or any food). In the US there
> >> is no food shortage and there are sales every day. Reynolds gave it a
>
> >There's nothing like jumping to a conclusion and making sweeping
> >generalizations to prove your point.
>
> I made no generalizatiuons, sweeping or otherwise... show me where moi
> ever beats around the bush.
> >FYI, I seldom used mine for meat - I use it for things like cookies
> >that I make a whole batch of, and since there's only one of me, I like
> >to freeze the extras in take-home sizes for when the grandkids are
> >over.
>
> That's just plain silly... cookies and such will stay fresh for months
> in an ordinary zip-loc, inside a tin if yer really ascared the boogie
> man will get em.
No, they don't. They get crumbly and bad-tasting, when compared with
ones that have been frozen when fresh. That's because they don't have
all the preservatives that commercial cookies do.
>
> >When I use part of an onion, I store the rest in the hand-vacuum bag
> >because there is absolutely no odor and it lasts a long time.
>
> Folks with a functioning brain choose onions sized for the job... once
> they're cut onions begin to ferment immediately regardless how you
> wrap them... there is never a reason to save cut raw onion, NEVER!
You're just plain wrong. Onions don't come in one-person-recipe
sizes, or didn't you know that? There is nothing wrong with onions
that have been vacuum sealed for a week.
> >The same with shredded cabbage, which stays fresh for a long time. I must
> >have weird supermarkets, because I can't buy just a single portion of
> >cabbage (and it's never on the salad deli buffet counter).
>
> Cabbage will keep in the fridge for like 3-4 months in an ordinary
> *ventilated* plastic bag... just poke a few holes in a plastic
> stupidmarket bag.... and if yer gonna freeze cabbage to store at
I'm talking fresh, not frozen. I know perfectly well how to store
different foods - why buy a separate supply of "ventilated" food
storage bags when I can use multi-purpose vacuum (or not) bags???
> >As to protein, I live within 7 miles of 3 different supermarkets, but
> >it's easier to go once a week than drive around every day or every
> >other day to food shop. Who does that, with gas costing as much as it
> >does? I buy whole cod or salmon filets, portion them out and seal
> >them in the hand-vacuum bags - for some reason, the fish counter guy
> >doesn't want to cut one 3 or 4-oz. portion off a whole filet....
>
> Hardly anyone shops every day anymore, but meats will store perfectly
> in the freezer for up to six months in ordinary wrappings; butcher
> paper and a zip-loc... if you're gonna use it within two months the
> stupidmarket styrofoam tray and plastic wrap is fine. I would never
> consider freezing fresh fish.. if a great sale I'd cook it first and
> then freeze it. Cooked foods take up much less freezer space anyway,
> and store longer... and then just need reheating.
> closet, under a couch... but there's no sane/logical reason to
> consider either... only folks psychiatrically obsessed with running
> out of food/going hungry feel compelled to store food that they think
> will out last the pyramids.
>
> It's very stupid to store large amounts of perishables, so what if you
> fill up a fridge freezer and a chest freezer, what do you save when
> there's a power outage. Even without a power outage, with that much
> food there will be foods that still spoil when held that long, so
> there can never be any monetary savings. And freezing expensive
> tender cuts is really dumb, freezing lowers those steaks/roasts at
> least one full USDA Grade.
>
> Anyone who lives within 7 miles of three supermarkets and feels
> compelled to stockpile food is mentally ill, not just a tetch,
> SEVERELY!
See? More generalizations. I don't "stockpile" food. I keep enough
on hand for a couple weeks, maybe, at the outside. I don't have any
type of separate freezer, just a single 22 cu.ft. refrigerator with a
freezer on top. If I put store-plastic-wrapped proteins in the
freezer for even a couple weeks, they start to get freezer burn.
That's because I have a frost-free freezer. Deal with it.
(Your first sweeping generalization was replying to my post by
assuming I was talking about stockpiling mountains of meat. You
couldn't have been more wrong.)
You live the way you like; I'll live the way I like. Just because my
way isn't your way doesn't mean it's less viable or efficient.
N.