What happened to Rec.Food.Reipes?
GW
Hugh
"GW" <gwa...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:4a0f8171$0$87074$815e...@news.qwest.net...
> Subject says it all. Where did it go?
>
>
emerged who wants to take that role. As a moderated NG messages are subject
to a moderator's approval. There isn't a moderator and hence, there are no
posted messages. This newsgroup is non moderated, and anything goes, as we
all know. The fraction of good solid posts about cooking has become quite
small, and overwhelmed by spams and flames. I wish there is a way to balance
the extremes of moderated and non-moderated groups into something that would
work. Is there a way we can keep the flaming foodies and dump the watch
sellers?
Hugh
Serene Vannoy
Soc.singles.moderated managed to keep itself almost completely free of
spam by moderating not the individual messages, but the first message
from any new posting address. There is a codeword in the FAQ for that
group, and anyone wanting to post needed to include that codeword in
their first post's subject line. The robomoderator would, if my memory
is correct, then strip the codeword and post the message. This kept out
all drive-by posts.
Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com
"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
cybercat
"Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Steve Pope
>Soc.singles.moderated managed to keep itself almost completely free of
>spam by moderating not the individual messages, but the first message
>from any new posting address. There is a codeword in the FAQ for that
>group, and anyone wanting to post needed to include that codeword in
>their first post's subject line. The robomoderator would, if my memory
>is correct, then strip the codeword and post the message. This kept out
>all drive-by posts.
Excellent idea, and one I've never myself heard of before.
Steve
Hugh
"Steve Pope" <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote in message
news:guo5ve$uot$1...@blue.rahul.net...
this once a group is either moderated or nonmoderated it can't turn the
other way. I think the moderator of the moderated group Serene is referring
to above did this on his/her own. I as well think it sounds like an
excellent idea. However it can't be applied to rec.food.cooking because
we're not a moderated group. At least that's my understanding. A new
moderator of rec.food.recipes could if such a person is found. It would be
nice of one could comment on recipes. Now that doesn't occur.
Hugh
jmcquown
Jill
Omelet
"Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one has
> emerged who wants to take that role.
I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
--
Peace! Om
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
It's about learning to dance in the rain.
-- Anon.
Omelet
> Is there a way we can keep the flaming foodies and dump the watch
> sellers?
>
> Hugh
Learn how to tweak your kill filters, and learn to use your delete key?
I don't have any problems with it.
It appears that Giganews has good filters and I don't see many of the
spammers that people bitch about appear here, but when I check the list
at work using Googlegroups I can see them.
Google really needs to tighten things up a bit!
Omelet
"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
If you killfile gmail, you will lose a lot of good posters too. Many of
us use gmail. :-(
Andy
> Subject says it all. Where did it go?
Last recipes were posted on April 14th, 2009.
Rec.food.recipes is moderated by Tracy Karman at rec...@swcp.com.
Only recipes and recipe requests are accepted for posting.
Please allow several days for your submission to appear.
Archives: http://www.cdkitchen.com/rfr/ http://recipes.alastra.com/
It's pretty much a lost cause newsgroup nowadays as there's no peer review
so recipes are a coin toss at best. Many were riddled with typos. One of my
recipes was actually edited which totally ruined it and they wouldn't
change it back!
Put your trust in peer review recipe websites. You'll be better "served,"
imho.
Best,
Andy
--
Eat first, talk later.
jmcquown
news:ompomelet-14E2A...@news-wc.giganews.com...
Ah, the blessings of Vista :) I get to pick and choose, sweetie. I see
your posts. I don't see the ones I don't want to. Other "real" newsreaders
allow you to write strings to block things. Blinky was very good at
informing people about that but alas, we lost Blinky.
Jill
Serene Vannoy
> "Steve Pope" <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote in message
> news:guo5ve$uot$1...@blue.rahul.net...
>> Serene Vannoy <ser...@serenepages.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Soc.singles.moderated managed to keep itself almost completely free of
>>> spam by moderating not the individual messages, but the first message
>> >from any new posting address. There is a codeword in the FAQ for that
>>> group, and anyone wanting to post needed to include that codeword in
>>> their first post's subject line. The robomoderator would, if my memory
>>> is correct, then strip the codeword and post the message. This kept out
>>> all drive-by posts.
>> Excellent idea, and one I've never myself heard of before.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
> I'm guessing that is at the discretion of the moderator. As I understand
> this once a group is either moderated or nonmoderated it can't turn the
> other way. I think the moderator of the moderated group Serene is referring
> to above did this on his/her own.
No, I think ssm decided to do it as a group.
> I as well think it sounds like an
> excellent idea. However it can't be applied to rec.food.cooking because
> we're not a moderated group. At least that's my understanding.
Mine, too. It's my understanding we'd have to start a new, moderated group.
> A new
> moderator of rec.food.recipes could if such a person is found. It would be
> nice of one could comment on recipes. Now that doesn't occur.
*nod* If I had the time and energy, I'd be willing to do it, but I'd
take a different approach from the one the previous moderator took. (I
wouldn't edit people's posts. I would allow discussion of recipes. I
wouldn't reject recipes that weren't in a certain format. Etc.)
zxcvbob
> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one has
>> emerged who wants to take that role.
>
> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
Better to let the group die, I guess.
Bob
Omelet
"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
I miss him. <sniffs>
Cheers Jill! (raising one for Blinky the Shark)
Omelet
zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
mom peagram
it's been very quiet.
--
mompeagram
FERGUS/HARLINGEN
Owner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rec-Food-Baking-cooking/
http://mompeagram.homestead.com
Jean B.
test posts.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one has
>> emerged who wants to take that role.
>
> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
That was truly unfortunate. I'd have loved to see you as
moderator. The person who emerged as the new moderator was no one
I had ever heard of.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Oh I am reminded. The archives REALLY tick me off, with the
omission of parts of the recipe names which would make them
immensely easier to find and sift through, omission of
introductory material, and omission of the contributor. In fact,
that is a major reason why I am not so wild about contributing
recipes there any more. I posted recipes as a tribute to my dead
mother and my grandmother, thinking they would live on in this
small way. But no!!!!
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Obviously.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> In article <77ai9oF...@mid.individual.net>,
> zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one
>>>> has
>>>> emerged who wants to take that role.
>>> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
>>
>> Better to let the group die, I guess.
>>
>> Bob
>
> If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
> Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
Think about the rules. If any. Also, what would the
ramifications be for rfc? How would the group differ from what we
have here? How would it differ from rfr (as it was, of course)?
Might be interesting, but I wouldn't want to see it supplant rfc.
My immediate thoughts would be:
1. Recipe-oriented
2. Discussion of recipes and prose related to the recipes allowed
(but then where do you draw the line, so you don't slip into banter?)
3. Tried and true recipes only (made clear in some way with the
submission) UNLESS someone asks for a specific recipe--and then
the fact that is has not been tried should be made clear.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
>
> "GW" <gwa...@uswest.net> wrote in message
> news:4a0f8171$0$87074$815e...@news.qwest.net...
>> Subject says it all. Where did it go?
> It's still there. There is a new moderator as Pat has given it up. But
> it's been very quiet.
>
>
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
No flaming.
No spamming.
--
Jean B.
blake murphy
dump outlook express for a real newsreader with reasonable filtering
capabilities, or download nfilter and configure it to use with o.e.:
<http://www.nfilter.org/faq.html#1.1>
it's not hard to do.
your pal,
blake
blake murphy
but the usenet improvement project lives on:
<http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html>
your pal,
blake
jmcquown
news:77aomnF...@mid.individual.net...
>
There are already moderated "recipe" groups on Yahoo. I should know, I got
kicked off one for submitting what the moderators felt was a "copyrighted"
recipe. I personally am not for some (ahem) yahoos deciding what is and
what isn't copyrighted. AFAIK, my recipes are copyrighted. As long as
someone gives proper attribution rather than claim them as their own I don't
give a rip who re-posts them. But they were a bunch of uptight nellies,
acting like they were going to be sued (as if anyone really pays that much
attention). I posted this from a microwave cookbook I got with my microwave
oven back in 1980. So sorry it didn't tell me who came up with the
following (delicious!) recipe:
Almond Butter Crunch
(tastes like 'Heath' Candy Bars)
2 Tbs. butter
1/2 c. slivered almonds
1/2 c. butter, cut into pieces
1-1/2 c. white sugar
3 Tbs. water
1 Tbs. light corn syrup
3 oz. bar of chocolate or bag of chocolate chips (I used milk chocolate
chips)
Line a baking sheet with aluminium foil and butter the foil; set aside.
Place 2 Tbs. butter in a shallow glass bowl. Microwave on HIGH about 60
seconds or until butter melts. Stir in slivered almonds. Microwave on HIGH
about 5 minutes, stirring every minute, until almonds are browned. Drain on
paper towels and sprinkle on foil lined baking sheet in a 12X8 inch area.
In a 2 quart pyrex measure or microwavable mixing bowl, combine remaining
ingredients except chocolate. Microwave on HIGH 2-3 minutes or until sugar
dissolves and mixture can be stirred smooth. Place a microwave candy
thermometer in the mixture (I never did this... guess I just had a knack)
and microwave on HIGH for 5-6 minutes or until temp reaches 300F.
Immediately pour the mixture over the almonds on the baking sheet. Let
stand for 1 minute, then arrange the chocolate on top. As the chocolate
melts over the toffee mixture, spread it with a knife to cover the top of
the candy. Chill mixture to set, then break it into pieces. Makes 1 lb.
Jill
Janet Wilder
> In article <77ai9oF...@mid.individual.net>,
> zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one
>>>> has
>>>> emerged who wants to take that role.
>>> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
>>
>> Better to let the group die, I guess.
>>
>> Bob
>
> If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
> Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
I'd participate. I once owned a private Yahoo! Group and co-moderated
another semi-private group. The private group was by invite only. It did
not appear in the listings. The semi-private group was in the listing,
but you had to be accepted by the moderator after sending a brief email
why you want to join. It's not very difficult to moderate a Yahoo! Group.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
Janet Wilder
I think it should be recipes and requests for recipes only. Just like
r.f.r used to be, but it won't be linked to that stupid web site so
there won't be all of those dumb requests from illiterates.
Janet Wilder
Of course! I'd like to add no gratuitous profanity, too.
The moderators can screen initial posts from members until they get a
feel for how things will be. You could also moderate some people but not
others. We have a few "bi-polar" posters here that probably warrant such
monitoring. That would also work for those who are constantly spoofed.
The moderator would be able to weed out the genuine from the spoof.
Janet Wilder
Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
because the group is pretty dead.
Jean B.
Mmmm. I do something similar on the stove top.
You bring up some interesting points re sources. You, like me and
many others, may not have noted sources way back when we started
collecting recipes.... Just this morning, I was thinking of a
recipe I have for Salzburg Nockerln (not looking this up, so I
have the words a bit wrong). It is unlike any other recipes I
have seen for it. I am pretty sure I copied it out of an old
cookbook that was in the bowels of my local library--or some other
library. I'm sure the book has long since been ousted from
wherever it was. So, does that mean I can never share this recipe?
And would moderators have some legal liability for recipes that
came from books?
BTW, that gets me back to the stripping of various things from
recipes that end up on rfr's archives.... I wonder what the legal
ramifications of THAT might be?
Another pondering I have had... If one posts a recipe with its
source, can it ever be considered to be an ad of sorts for the
source?
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
--
Jean B.
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
It would have been fun, but c'est la vie! :-)
And, thanks.
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article <77ai9oF...@mid.individual.net>,
> > zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >>> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one
> >>>> has
> >>>> emerged who wants to take that role.
> >>> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
> >>
> >> Better to let the group die, I guess.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
> > Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
>
> Think about the rules. If any.
<vbg>
> Also, what would the
> ramifications be for rfc? How would the group differ from what we
> have here? How would it differ from rfr (as it was, of course)?
Personally, I'm happy here and DO both post and save the recipes that
appear from time to time.
>
> Might be interesting, but I wouldn't want to see it supplant rfc.
I doubt it would!
>
> My immediate thoughts would be:
>
> 1. Recipe-oriented
> 2. Discussion of recipes and prose related to the recipes allowed
> (but then where do you draw the line, so you don't slip into banter?)
> 3. Tried and true recipes only (made clear in some way with the
> submission) UNLESS someone asks for a specific recipe--and then
> the fact that is has not been tried should be made clear.
Sounds like it'd be naught but an allegory. <g>
Or a synonym...
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
That is one good point of Yahoogroups.com.
Moderated lists can totally filter out Spams!
I co-moderate a couple of lists. One that is dedicated to local
freecycling (I save egg cartons and cat litter buckets and give them
away on a regular basis, along with other "stuff" I want to get rid of)
and an RKBA 2nd amendment list.
If anyone is truly interested, let me know and I'll be happy to start
one up for recipes :-).
Nancy Young
> Jean B. wrote:
>> That was truly unfortunate. I'd have loved to see you as moderator.
>> The person who emerged as the new moderator was no one I had ever
>> heard of.
>>
>
> Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
> because the group is pretty dead.
Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
nancy
Omelet
Janet Wilder <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article <77ai9oF...@mid.individual.net>,
> > zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet wrote:
> >>> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one
> >>>> has
> >>>> emerged who wants to take that role.
> >>> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
> >>
> >> Better to let the group die, I guess.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
> > Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
>
> I'd participate. I once owned a private Yahoo! Group and co-moderated
> another semi-private group. The private group was by invite only. It did
> not appear in the listings. The semi-private group was in the listing,
> but you had to be accepted by the moderator after sending a brief email
> why you want to join. It's not very difficult to moderate a Yahoo! Group.
Ok, the group has been created if y'all are interested. :-) I'm the
current group owner and will be happy to add co-moderators. We can
discuss the "rules" about unmoderating memberships to speed the list up.
Go to:
recfood...@yahoogroups.com to sign on.
Omelet
Janet Wilder <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Just set up a group if anyone wants to play:
jmcquown
>
doubt the recipe was ever copyrighted.
> You bring up some interesting points re sources. You, like me and many
> others, may not have noted sources way back when we started collecting
> recipes.... Just this morning, I was thinking of a recipe I have for
> Salzburg Nockerln (not looking this up, so I have the words a bit wrong).
> It is unlike any other recipes I have seen for it. I am pretty sure I
> copied it out of an old cookbook that was in the bowels of my local
> library--or some other library. I'm sure the book has long since been
> ousted from wherever it was. So, does that mean I can never share this
> recipe?
>
According to the people on that particular web forum, yes, you can never
share that recipe. If any of the moderators thinks it came from a cookbook,
then no, you can't post it.
> And would moderators have some legal liability for recipes that came from
> books?
>
Doubtful. Who is watching? Who really cares?
> BTW, that gets me back to the stripping of various things from recipes
> that end up on rfr's archives.... I wonder what the legal ramifications
> of THAT might be?
>
No idea. I never saw anything there that was original or even appealing.
> Another pondering I have had... If one posts a recipe with its source,
> can it ever be considered to be an ad of sorts for the source?
>
> --
> Jean B.
Only if it's an ad for Campbell's soup ;)
Jill
Michael Kuettner
"Jean B." schrieb :
<snip>
> Mmmm. I do something similar on the stove top.
>
> You bring up some interesting points re sources. You, like me and many
> others, may not have noted sources way back when we started collecting
> recipes.... Just this morning, I was thinking of a recipe I have for
> Salzburg Nockerln (not looking this up, so I have the words a bit wrong).
Only a little bit. It's Salzburger Nockerln.
> It is unlike any other recipes I have seen for it. I am pretty sure I
> copied it out of an old cookbook that was in the bowels of my local
> library--or some other library. I'm sure the book has long since been
> ousted from wherever it was. So, does that mean I can never share this
> recipe?
>
There's only one recipe for Salzburger Nockerln ...
<snip>
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
>"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote in message
>> And would moderators have some legal liability for recipes that came from
>> books?
>>
>Doubtful. Who is watching? Who really cares?
Funny about recipes. Stricly speaking, they cannot be copyrighted.
Copied from U.S. Gov't Copyright Site........
"Mere listings of ingredients as in recipes, formulas, compounds, or
prescriptions are not subject to copyright protection. However, when a
recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in
the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a
combination of recipes, as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for
copyright protection."
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html
--
mad
Omelet
Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Or e-mail me with a valid e-mail for an invite if that link does not
work. :-)
ompomelet at gmail dot com
Omelet
"Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
I'm still up for it if they are interested.
Nancy Young
> "Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
>>> because the group is pretty dead.
>>
>> Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
> Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
(laugh) I started to put it that way, but I figured it would sound
insulting.
But it seems to me that the moderator is not doing the job of going
through the postings and letting some through.
Apparently if you want to kill a moderated group for some reason,
get yourself appointed to the job.
> I'm still up for it if they are interested.
I think you'd do a good job, though some changes would have to be
made for me to be interested in the group.
nancy
sf
wrote:
>Go to:
>
>recfood...@yahoogroups.com to sign on.
Glad to see you've do it, but - does this mean yet another email
address to remember?
--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Jean B.
What are your thoughts on this, Om?
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Well, I am debating whether I want to offer my services as a
co-moderator.
I haven't done that. What does it involve?
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Victor's FAQ is there. But you would think we'd still be seeing
recipes from the frequent posters.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Post a usable link to join, please. One just gets a bounce with
that addy.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
That doesn't work. Nor does a search on the yahoo page. Please
post a usable link.
--
Jean B.
James Silverton
AFAICT, the r.f.recipes group was quite active until 4/14/09 and then
just stopped. The only message about a moderator that I saw was the
request from Patricia Hill when she announced her retirement. Can anyone
tell me when and where a new moderator was announced?
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Jean B.
LOL!
And such rules would eliminate many things. Hey, even many
heirloom recipes turn out to have definite published sources.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
This recipe seems like an aberration--served with a chocolate
sauce! I don't know why I started thinking about that this morning.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
esp. if one know the source and hasn't tinkered with the recipe at
all, is to modify the prose.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> In article <t7YPl.158570$i%2.15...@newsfe15.ams2>,
> "Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>> Jean B. wrote:
>>>> That was truly unfortunate. I'd have loved to see you as moderator.
>>>> The person who emerged as the new moderator was no one I had ever
>>>> heard of.
>>>>
>>> Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
>>> because the group is pretty dead.
>> Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
>>
>> nancy
>
> Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
> I'm still up for it if they are interested.
Maybe you should write to the new moderator.
--
Jean B.
Mark Thorson
>
> AFAICT, the r.f.recipes group was quite active until 4/14/09 and then
> just stopped. The only message about a moderator that I saw was the
> request from Patricia Hill when she announced her retirement. Can anyone
> tell me when and where a new moderator was announced?
Whatever happened to Stephanie? Was she hounded out of office
by her many enemies? :-)
Jean B.
It was at the bottom of each of the few posts after the change was
made. I forget how it was announced otherwise.
--
Jean B.
zxcvbob
> Omelet wrote:
>> In article <77ai9oF...@mid.individual.net>,
>> zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Omelet wrote:
>>>> In article <guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired.
>>>>> No one has emerged who wants to take that role.
>>>> I offered, but they rejected me because I drove a mac. :-(
>>>
>>> Better to let the group die, I guess.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>
>> If anyone is interested, we could try starting one up on Yahoogroups?
>> Several of us could run it as co-moderators?
>
> another semi-private group. The private group was by invite only. It did
> not appear in the listings. The semi-private group was in the listing,
> but you had to be accepted by the moderator after sending a brief email
> why you want to join. It's not very difficult to moderate a Yahoo! Group.
>
The problem with @Yahoogroups is the moderators usually turn into Nazis
eventually and start abusing the regular members -- not all the regulars
of course, often it's a newbie. Then I rebuke the moderator for
violating the group's TOS (I don't like bullies.) Publicly or privately
it doesn't matter, it always plays out the same way: she bans me from
the group and then posts accusations about *me* (which I can't rebut) to
make me the bad guy, and all the women post what a wonderful job she's
doing keeping the group safe. :barf:
Or, like with the local Freecycle group, the moderator edits messages to
"fix" the punctuation or grammar, even if it was correct to begin with.
(I'm pretty sure it's more a control thing than trying to be helpful.)
I've pretty much given up on them completely, and I use Craigslist
instead of Freecycle if I want to give something away.
/Bob
Gregory Morrow
blake murphy wrote:
> On Sun, 17 May 2009 08:52:44 -0400, jmcquown wrote:
>
> > "Omelet" <ompo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:ompomelet-14E2A...@news-wc.giganews.com...
> >> In article <779vhaF...@mid.individual.net>,
> >> "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Hugh" <jar...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:guo15j$14a$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> >
> >>> > "GW" <gwa...@uswest.net> wrote in message
> >>> > news:4a0f8171$0$87074$815e...@news.qwest.net...
> >>> >> Subject says it all. Where did it go?
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> > Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No
> >>> > one
> >>> > has emerged who wants to take that role. As a moderated NG messages
are
> >>> > subject to a moderator's approval. There isn't a moderator and
hence,
> >>> > there are no posted messages. This newsgroup is non moderated, and
> >>> > anything goes, as we all know. The fraction of good solid posts
about
> >>> > cooking has become quite small, and overwhelmed by spams and flames.
I
> >>> > wish there is a way to balance the extremes of moderated and
> >>> > non-moderated
> >>> > groups into something that would work. Is there a way we can keep
the
> >>> > flaming foodies and dump the watch sellers?
> >>> >
> >>> > Hugh
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> Killfile googlemail and gmail and you won't see the spammers.
> >>>
> >>> Jill
> >>
> >> If you killfile gmail, you will lose a lot of good posters too. Many of
> >> us use gmail. :-(
> >> --
> >> Peace! Om
> >>
> >
> > Ah, the blessings of Vista :) I get to pick and choose, sweetie. I see
> > your posts. I don't see the ones I don't want to. Other "real"
newsreaders
> > allow you to write strings to block things. Blinky was very good at
> > informing people about that but alas, we lost Blinky.
> >
> > Jill
>
> but the usenet improvement project lives on:
>
> <http://improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html>
Unfortunately the Jill Improvement Project is dead in the water...
:-(
--
Best
Greg
zxcvbob
Victor is probably able to self-approve the FAQ posts.
Bob
Jean B.
I gather. I just went to capture the blurb at the bottom of the
posts, and it was lacking from that one. One could google if one
was so inclined.
--
Jean B.
Mack A. Damia
:)
Mere lists of ingredients and steps to prepare a dish obviously cannot
be copyrighted. Don't copy the recipe word-for-word and you'll be
safe.
Wordy recipes annoy me anyway!
--
mad
--
mad
--
mad
Omelet
sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:55:15 -0500, Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Go to:
> >
> >recfood...@yahoogroups.com to sign on.
>
> Glad to see you've do it, but - does this mean yet another email
> address to remember?
I tried to make it easy!!!
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
I see you managed to join. :-) Let me go see:
Ok, lets try this one:
recfoodrecip...@yahoogroups.com
Omelet
"Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
<shrugs> It's up to the current list owner at this point.
I just set up one on Yahoo groups if anyone else other than Jean is
sf
wrote:
>In article <t7YPl.158570$i%2.15...@newsfe15.ams2>,
> "Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>> > Jean B. wrote:
>>
>> >> That was truly unfortunate. I'd have loved to see you as moderator.
>> >> The person who emerged as the new moderator was no one I had ever
>> >> heard of.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
>> > because the group is pretty dead.
>>
>> Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
>>
>> nancy
>
>Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
>I'm still up for it if they are interested.
Maybe you should contact the new moderator about it. Does the
moderator own rfr? It seems to me that rfr should be resurrected
rather than create yet another Yahoo group.
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
Being more liberal.
Tastes are very much an individual thing, and I personally go by
instinct when I'm cooking. I only follow recipes if I'm baking or
making sausage so I'd let most recipes thru IF they sounded like they
were not a troll.
Some things are obvious, like chocolate and fish do NOT go together. <g>
Nancy Young
> Nancy Young wrote:
>> Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
> Victor's FAQ is there. But you would think we'd still be seeing
> recipes from the frequent posters.
I almost got the feeling that the FAQ didn't need to be approved
by the moderator or something. What do I know, just saying I
didn't think only that one thing was approved by someone.
Just thinking out loud, that's all. It's curious.
nancy
Omelet
"Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
It just involves letting posts thru based on your personal views. They'd
come to your mailbox. If you are not sure about one, just leave it in
the queue for me or another moderator.
That's what I do for Melissa on her RKBA list.
It is not terribly involved.
zxcvbob
> Some things are obvious, like chocolate and fish do NOT go together. <g>
You've obviously never tried it... ;)
Bob
Nancy Young
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>>> Do you really think that no one has tried to post a recipe in what,
>>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything
>>> through.
>> Victor's FAQ is there. But you would think we'd still be seeing
>> recipes from the frequent posters.
> Victor is probably able to self-approve the FAQ posts.
Ah. That explains it.
nancy
Omelet
sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
> >I'm still up for it if they are interested.
>
> Maybe you should contact the new moderator about it. Does the
> moderator own rfr? It seems to me that rfr should be resurrected
> rather than create yet another Yahoo group.
I set up a Yahoo group.
Jean joined, so that's a start. :-)
Omelet
zxcvbob
> In article <77bb0vF...@mid.individual.net>,
> zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> Some things are obvious, like chocolate and fish do NOT go together. <g>
>> You've obviously never tried it... ;)
>>
>> Bob
>
> EWWWWWW!!! ;-D
I haven't tried it, but I have seen several salmon recipes floating
about the 'Net that called for cocoa. Or a Mexican fish stew might have
chocolate in it.
Bob
Rooney
"Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AtZPl.74212$Dx7....@newsfe20.ams2...
> Omelet wrote:
>
>> "Nancy Young" <rjyn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>> Jean B. wrote:
>
>>>> Me either. It appears no one was comfortable with the new moderator
>>>> because the group is pretty dead.
>>>
>>> a month? I'm only asking, I don't normally subscribe to that group,
>>> I was curious when I took a look yesterday. Either everyone stopped
>>> trying to post or this new moderator is not letting anything through.
>
>
> insulting.
> But it seems to me that the moderator is not doing the job of going
> through the postings and letting some through.
>
> Apparently if you want to kill a moderated group for some reason,
>
>> I'm still up for it if they are interested.
What? You'd change it to
rec.food.recipes.guns.bitch.about.anything.om.feels.like.today.babe
Kajikit
wrote:
>In article <77b7foF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Jean B." <jb...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>> >> My immediate thoughts would be:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Recipe-oriented
>> >> 2. Discussion of recipes and prose related to the recipes allowed
>> >> (but then where do you draw the line, so you don't slip into banter?)
>> >> 3. Tried and true recipes only (made clear in some way with the
>> >> submission) UNLESS someone asks for a specific recipe--and then
>> >> the fact that is has not been tried should be made clear.
>> >
>> > Sounds like it'd be naught but an allegory. <g>
>> > Or a synonym...
>>
>> What are your thoughts on this, Om?
>>
>> --
>> Jean B.
>
>Being more liberal.
>
>Tastes are very much an individual thing, and I personally go by
>instinct when I'm cooking. I only follow recipes if I'm baking or
>making sausage so I'd let most recipes thru IF they sounded like they
>were not a troll.
>
>Some things are obvious, like chocolate and fish do NOT go together. <g>
In other words, you'd have rec.food.cooking only without the spam.
I used to run a yahoo group for special needs recipes but it never had
much traffic and I let it die for lack of input. The group's still
there, just unused for about six years.
Jean B.
Re the first: oh! Must have been with some help.
I guess, then, I can't check out this addy.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
Let's see where this goes first--if anywhere.
--
Jean B.
Jean B.
> In article <04t015t34bl26rr7m...@4ax.com>,
> sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
>>> I'm still up for it if they are interested.
>> Maybe you should contact the new moderator about it. Does the
>> moderator own rfr? It seems to me that rfr should be resurrected
>> rather than create yet another Yahoo group.
>
> I set up a Yahoo group.
> Jean joined, so that's a start. :-)
I'll think of something to post....
--
Jean B.
sf
wrote:
>What? You'd change it to
>rec.food.recipes.guns.bitch.about.anything.om.feels.like.today.babe
My, my, my.... aren't you all sunshine and roses? Shove off Space
Cadet.
sf
wrote:
>I set up a Yahoo group.
>Jean joined, so that's a start. :-)
I went to the sign in... it's asking for a LOT of information I'd
rather not give. What is necessary and what isn't. I don't want ANY
email from Yahoo.
Jean B.
> In article <04t015t34bl26rr7m...@4ax.com>,
> sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Sounds to me like the new moderator is not doing his/her job.
>>> I'm still up for it if they are interested.
>> Maybe you should contact the new moderator about it. Does the
>> moderator own rfr? It seems to me that rfr should be resurrected
>> rather than create yet another Yahoo group.
>
> I set up a Yahoo group.
> Jean joined, so that's a start. :-)
Hmmm. I am not seeing this on my list of groups. Odd.
--
Jean B.
Victor Sack
> Victor is probably able to self-approve the FAQ posts.
Rem acu tetigisti.
Victor
Janet Wilder
>> r.f.r used to be, but it won't be linked to that stupid web site so
>> there won't be all of those dumb requests from illiterates.
>>
> What web site is that, Janet?
>
CD Kitchen, IIRC
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
Janet Wilder
I joined!
DK
> "GW" <gwa...@uswest.net> wrote in message
> news:4a0f8171$0$87074$815e...@news.qwest.net...
>> Subject says it all. Where did it go?
>>
>>
> Rec.food.recipes is a moderated newsgroup. The moderator retired. No one has
> to a moderator's approval. There isn't a moderator and hence, there are no
> posted messages. This newsgroup is non moderated, and anything goes, as we
> all know. The fraction of good solid posts about cooking has become quite
> small, and overwhelmed by spams and flames. I wish there is a way to balance
> the extremes of moderated and non-moderated groups into something that would
> work. Is there a way we can keep the flaming foodies and dump the watch
> sellers?
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
There are quite a few here. Most of them from Kili!
http://foodandcooking.proboards.com/
-dk
Jean B.
Janet Wilder wrote:
--
It still isn't in my list of yahoo groups, nor is it coming up in
a search of new recipe-related groups. Odd.
--
Jean B.
Christine Dabney
<mybaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Funny about recipes. Stricly speaking, they cannot be copyrighted.
>
>Copied from U.S. Gov't Copyright Site........
>
>"Mere listings of ingredients as in recipes, formulas, compounds, or
>prescriptions are not subject to copyright protection. However, when a
>recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in
>the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a
>combination of recipes, as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for
>copyright protection."
>
>http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html
More on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
And from an article written by David Lebovitz:
http://foodblogalliance.com/2009/04/recipe-attribution.php
This is coming up a lot in the food blogging world lately.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Christine Dabney
>Victor's FAQ is there. But you would think we'd still be seeing
>recipes from the frequent posters.
I wonder if the new moderator is just overwhelmed?
It's a harder job than many people realize. Patricia, who lives here
in my town, said it took her about 2 hours a day to moderate..and she
was very experienced at it. That adds up to a big chunk of
time...over time.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Jean B.
Thanks, Christine. Those are certainly food for thought.
It would seem that the way I use recipes would be fair use--but it
also seems that changing wording and using the "adapted from" or
"inspired by" would be wise.
One kind-of humorous thought I have about the recipes I copied a
LONG time ago (maybe 40-ish years--I started young).... I have no
idea how they might have been initially worded, so if I change the
wording, I might inadvertently be closer to the original!!!!
--
Jean B.
Andy
Christine,
I'm in complete agreement! It takes real dedication to do it.
A negative effect of moderated groups is they add a delay to posts which in
turn eliminate a more fluid mechanism that we have here at rfc.
I'm not in favor of moderated ngs as I'm not fond of censorship and
favoritism which I know can creep into the equation.
I won't contribute to a moderated ng or web forum/group ever again. The
method that I've seen work best on web forums is anything goes UNTIL the mods
declare a post plain wrong and can then temporarily or permanently suspend
members. A "housekeeping" thing. That way the forums roll along in almost
real time like here.
Again, it's definitely a tremendous undertaking. The web forums divide the
mod jobs among many people, usually by section expertise.
Best,
Andy
--
Eat first, talk later.
Jean B.
You might be right. I would thing Pat Hill would have told the
applicant that, but still... Or maybe it is just moribund.
--
Jean B.
Mack A. Damia
I went through this with a fellow about ten years ago in a newsgroup;
it was more of a pissing contest, though.
After everything is said and done, it's up to a lawyer, a judge and a
jury whether or not something is "intellectual property", and that's
basically what we're talking about.
That is to say, a person would probably need a lawyer to represent
himself - a judge to interpret the law and a jury to decide if there
were damages, etc.
I don't think you find too many legal cases based on recipe-theft.
Here's another one - the entire copyright office........
This urban myth went round the world............
(There are genuine legal opinions at the end from several law
professors)
My daughter & I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus
Cafe in Dallas & decided to have a small dessert.
Because both of us are such cookie lovers, we decided to
try the "Neiman-Marcus Cookie". It was so excellent that I
asked if they would give me the recipe and the waitress said
with a small frown, "I�ｿｽm afraid not." Well, I said, would you
let me buy the recipe?
With a cute smile, she said, "Yes." I asked how much, and she
responded, "two fifty, it�ｿｽs a great deal!" I said with approval,
just add it to my tab.
Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement from Neiman-Marcus
and it was $285.00. I looked again and I remembered I had only
spent $9.95 for two salads and about $20.00 for a scarf.
As I glanced at the bottom of the statement, it said, "Cookie Recipe
-$250.00." That�ｿｽs outrageous!! I called Neiman�ｿｽs Accounting Dept.
and told them the waitress said it was "two-fifty," which clearly
does not mean "two hundred and fifty dollars" by any *POSSIBLE*
interpretation of the phrase.
Nieman-Marcus refused to budge.
They would not refund my money, because according
to them, "What the waitress told you is not our problem.
You have already seen the recipe - we absolutely will not refund
your money at this point." I explained to her the criminal statutes
which govern fraud in Texas, I threatened to refer them to the
Better Business Bureau and the State�ｿｽs Attorney General for
engaging in fraud.
I was basically told, "Do what you want, we don�ｿｽt give a crap,
and we�ｿｽre not refunding your money."
I waited, thinking of how I could get even, or even try and get any
of my money back. I just said, "Okay, you folks got my $250, and now
I�ｿｽm going to have $250.00 worth of fun." I told her that I was going
to see to it that every cookie lover in the United States with an
e-mail account has a $250.00 cookie recipe from Neiman-Marcus
...for free. She replied, "I wish you wouldn�ｿｽt do this."
I said, "Well, you should have thought of that before you ripped me
off, and slammed down the phone on her.
So, here it is!!! Please, please, please pass it on to everyone you
can possibly think of. I paid $250 dollars for this... I don�ｿｽt want
Nieman-Marcus to *ever* get another penny off of this recipe....
Recipe may be halved:
4 cups (9 dl) flour
2 tsp. soda
2 cups (4 �ｿｽ dl) sugar
5 cups (12 dl) blended oatmeal**
2 cups (500 gram) butter
24 oz. chocolate chips
2 cups (4 �ｿｽ dl) brown sugar
1 tsp. salt
1 8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated)
4 eggs
2 tsp. baking powder
3 cups (7 dl) chopped nuts (your choice)
2 tsp. vanilla
** Measure oatmeal and blend in a blender to a fine powder.
Cream the butter and both sugars. Add eggs and vanilla; mix
together with flour, oatmeal, salt, baking powder, and soda.
Add chocolate chips, Hershey Bar and nuts. Roll into balls and
place two inches apart on a cookie sheet.
Bake for 10 minutes at 375 degrees. Makes 112 cookies.
Enjoy!
******************************************************
Here are some related letters from Usenet that I found:
(Many of them from law professors)
The Neiman Marcus recipe story is Internet folklore. It is not a true
story. As for the principle involved--divulging a recipe that one has
paid for--people do that all the time when they swap recipe that have
come from cookbooks. As far as copyright is concerned, it's not
infringement.
J. Wesley Cochran
Law Library Director &
Professor of Law
Texas Tech University
Lubbock, TX 79409
***********************************************
Are recipes covered by copyright?
My understanding was that they are too "useful" to meet the test, and
are viewed and mere encapsulation of ideas, and hence not protected.
This is a propos of whether or not it is an infringement to post
recipes
on an electronic bulletin board.
Thanks
Alan Divack
<a.div...@fordfound.org>
*************************************************
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 08:09:39 -0500 (EST)
From: P...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Re: copyright in recipes
To: cni-copyri...@cni.org
Message-Id: <01HANJMOYJJMC2J...@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Even Mel Nimmer who wasn't very taken with broad readings of Baker v.
Selden and section 102(b) was of the opinion that recipes were not
copyrightable because of the standardized format they use and the
narrow range of expressive possibilities of them in prose.
Pam Samuelson
University of Pittsburgh Law School
<P...@vms.cis.pitt.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------�ｿｽ-----
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 18:11:20 EST
From: "Sheldon W. Halpern" <shalp...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Message-Id: <65481.shalp...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
To: cni-copyri...@cni.org
Subject: Re: copyright in recipes
In Message Thu, 31 Mar 1994 19:39:34 -0500,
"Micah D. Stolowitz Esq." <mi...@TechLaw.Com> writes:
> Making the cookies of course would not infringe, in view of 102, but
>copying an original work (the recipe)? Would that not infringe? Is it too
>"factual" ?
The originality in the recipe is in the idea (the determination of
ingredients and proportions) and not (generally) in its expression. At
best, for most recipes (Lambs essay on roast pig a glaring exception)
the expression would be considered merged into the idea and thus not
copyrightable.
Sheldon W. Halpern
Professor of Law
The Ohio State University College of Law
--
mad
Christine Dabney
<mybaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I don't think you find too many legal cases based on recipe-theft.
I don;t know about that. ;)
http://tartreform.blogspot.com/2008/07/nice-try.html
One case involved a food blogger...as mentioned in that article.
It is being done more and more, especially with the proliferation of
food blogging and food forums.
Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com
Janet Wilder
If you were the owner, you could shut it down.
Mack A. Damia
<arti...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 May 2009 17:04:29 -0700, Mack A. Damia
><mybaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't think you find too many legal cases based on recipe-theft.
>
>I don;t know about that. ;)
>
>http://tartreform.blogspot.com/2008/07/nice-try.html
>
>One case involved a food blogger...as mentioned in that article.
>
>It is being done more and more, especially with the proliferation of
>food blogging and food forums.
Yes, but this is the basis....
(You have to be pretty dull to copy a recipe such as this
word-for-word)
The court found that the recipes were nothing more than mere
recitations of facts and thus could not be copyrighted because they
were procedures or processes. The only reason the case was allowed was
because the books were filled with �light-hearted or helpful
commentary.� For example, the Cowboy Chow recipe for "Cherokee
Chicken" states: "Heat oil in heavy skillet. Add sugar and let it
brown and bubble. (This is the secret to the unique taste!)" and in
License to Cook Texas Style it�s identical minus the exclamation
point: "Heat oil in heavy skillet. Add sugar and let it brown and
bubble (this is the secret to the unique taste)." The court found that
recipes may warrant copyright protection where the recipe includes
"suggestions for presentation, advice on wines to go with the meal, or
hints on place settings with appropriate music� or when it has history
or ethnic information).
Am I missing something else? The author of the above recipe made it
humerous with the comments. Of course, those can't be copied!!
--
mad
Janet Wilder
> On Sun, 17 May 2009 15:51:22 -0500, Omelet <ompo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I set up a Yahoo group.
>> Jean joined, so that's a start. :-)
>
> I went to the sign in... it's asking for a LOT of information I'd
> rather not give. What is necessary and what isn't. I don't want ANY
> email from Yahoo.
>
You don't have to fill in the profile. All it wants is an email address
to make it work. You can check the "web only" box and you won't get any
email. There are 3 mail options: each posting as a separate email, a
daily digest (I usually do that) and "web only" which means that you go
to the group site and read the posts there.
Janet Wilder
It is showing up on mine.
Melba's Jammin'
zxcvbob <zxc...@charter.net> wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
> > Victor's FAQ is there. But you would think we'd still be seeing recipes
> > from the frequent posters.
>
> Victor is probably able to self-approve the FAQ posts.
>
> Bob
Mother of Alex, I hope so! Hell's bells, without his stewardship it'd
probably have all manner of other crap that has nothing to do with food.
I don't think it's "Victor's FAQ," though. He maintains it well and
posts regularly links to it; others had a had in its composition long
ago.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - good news 4-6-2009
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria