OT For You Cat Experts

[Janet Wilder]

We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
home next Wednesday.

This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
third was off to the side.

We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
might have had.

Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
ants found them.

There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
more care than I am capable of giving)

My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

[merryb]

That's so sad :( I'd tend to think that something bad happened to
momma kitty.

[billn]

What a heartbreaking situation, Janet.

Unfortunately I have no answer, except maybe she was killed somehow. But
that doesn't answer the question here.

Sorry,
--
bill_n

[Nunya Bidnits]

It might be because of the dog. My cat Roscoe came from a feral litter where
dogs ran the mother off. But they were a little older than four days at the
time.

MartyB

[Janet Wilder]

The kittens still had umbilical cords.

I don't think it was the dog. He's very small, not much bigger than a cat.

He loves the kittens we have fostered, and his groomer has a huge cat
that has the run of the shop, so he knows from cats.

The way one kitten was a couple of feet away from the other two, leads
me to believe that the dog didn't run off the mother. She had been gone
a while for that kitten to have moved on its own. If anything, he
alerted us to the fact that they were there.

I still feel awful.

[dsi1]

My guess is that the mother most often gets killed by a car - around
here anyway. My daughter just brought home another baby kitten. That
thing was just skin and bones. That makes three so far.

My wife has recommended that she gets rid of the cats because she's
pregnant. I don't know the details but my understanding is that cats are
dangerous during a pregnancy. I thought that she understood this and was
surprised that she brought the cat home with her last night.

[Nunya Bidnits]

Well there's nothing you could have done about it. They would probably have
starved to death if not put down. And if the mother is feral something could
have happened to her or she could have been scared away by any number of
things, or perhaps she was starving and couldn't feed them. Ferals are very
skittish and unpredictable.

MartyB

[George Leppla]

On 5/20/2013 2:38 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> The kittens still had umbilical cords.
>
> I don't think it was the dog. He's very small, not much bigger than a cat.
>
> He loves the kittens we have fostered, and his groomer has a huge cat
> that has the run of the shop, so he knows from cats.
>
> The way one kitten was a couple of feet away from the other two, leads
> me to believe that the dog didn't run off the mother. She had been gone
> a while for that kitten to have moved on its own. If anything, he
> alerted us to the fact that they were there.
>
> I still feel awful.

I wouldn't feel awful. You did what you could. In the grand scheme of
things, you do infinitely more good for the critters than most people.

For a Mother to abandon a litter usually means illness or predators or
other misfortune. These little ones probably never had a chance.

We concentrate and are glad about the one we can save and not dwell on
the ones we can't. Sometimes, that is the best you can do.

George L

[Brooklyn1]

merryb wrote:

>Janet Wilder wrote:
>>
>> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
>> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. �Two were huddled together and the
>> third was off to the side.
>>
>> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
>> not. �One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
>> exposed. �I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
>> have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
>> house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
>> might have had.
>>
>> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
>> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
>> ants found them.
>>
>> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
>> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
>> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
>> more care than I am capable of giving)
>>
>> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? �I tried looking
>> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. �There are a
>> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
>

>That's so sad :( I'd tend to think that something bad happened to
>momma kitty.

There could be many reasons a mother cat leaves her kittens but most
often it's because it's a first litter and she's too young (less than
a year). Jack and Jill's mother abandoned them under a shrub in my
yard because she was too young... she was found a few days later and I
found her a home. She had four kittens, two were already dead and
Jack and Jill were darn close but with care they were nursed back to
health. Peach and Blackie were found in a plastic bag in a Manhattan
trash can in mid winter, almost frozen... they were only a few hours
old but with care they were nursed to health. Right now I am caring
for three barn kittens because their mother quit nursing them at three
weeks old, they never would have survived on thieir own. And at the
same time Peach is very sick now with a serious upper respiratory
viral infection... was close to putting her down but now she's very
slowly recovering... not out of the woods yet but hoping. It's not
difficult to care for three newborn kittens, three are as easy as
one... It's pretty heartless having them euthanized... I would have
definitely kept them. All that's needed as far as space is a large
canvas tote bag filled with lots of old towels to use as a nursery,
and it costs next to nothing to feed them.
Jack and Jill's nursery:
http://i43.tinypic.com/73cl1l.jpg
Only the most heartless would bring them to a shelter to die:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2dk0fnm.jpg

[Janet Wilder]

They may have a disease in their poop. Don't let your pregnant daughter
near the litter box.

[Janet Wilder]

Thanks, George. You helped me feel a little better. I am still so sad
about having to put them down, but having one snatched by one of the big
hawks that fly around here or eaten alive by the terrible Texas fire
ants would have been so much worse.

BTW, George and Becca met our first foster baby who is now a huge and
beautiful cat. He was adopted by my friend and I get to visit him
occasionally.

[Ophelia]

"Brooklyn1" <grave...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1f3lp85c77imks6cq...@4ax.com...

Lucky kitties:)

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Julie Bove]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:519a70d3$0$28546$c3e8da3$aae7...@news.astraweb.com...

We had a cat who tried to kill her babies. She had mated with her father
and the kittens were born deformed. One looked okay but we suspect that it
wasn't. My dad wound up having to put the kittens down because mom had
really done a number on them, trying to make them not live.

Could be that the mom was taken by someone or hit by a car or hurt by some
animal and she couldn't get back to them.

[Janet Wilder]

On 5/20/2013 4:35 PM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/20/2013 2:52 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
>> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
>> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
>

> Oh, man that's heart breaking!
>
> Maybe a raptor or other predator got the mom?
>
> Susan

That could very well be. There are some huge raptors around here,
including eagles. There are also feral dogs and coyotes. I live out in
the country.

[Janet Wilder]

I could not keep them. I had a duty to protect the 5 week old one I am
fostering right now. She is too young for shots and I did not know what
the newborns would bring into my house.

I'm sorry you think I am heartless.

[Cheri]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519ab993$0$40727$c3e8da3

> I could not keep them. I had a duty to protect the 5 week old one I am
> fostering right now. She is too young for shots and I did not know what
> the newborns would bring into my house.
>
> I'm sorry you think I am heartless.
>
> --
> Janet Wilder
> Way-the-heck-south Texas
> Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.

I don't, not at all. I think you're doing a good thing with the fostering of
the 5 week old.

Cheri

[Colt T]

I don't dislike cats but I'm allergic to them, I wasn't as a kid tho.

[Pico Rico]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519ab993$0$40727$c3e8da3$3304...@news.astraweb.com...

I think you are heartless. Raptor birds could have eaten them, instead you
are spending other people's money to have them put down and disposed of. The
raptors will now go after something else, maybe a neighbor's healthy cat.
What were you thinking?

[jmcquown]

I don't think she's heartless, either.

Jill

[John Kuthe]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:52:54 -0500, Janet Wilder
<kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
>doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
>home next Wednesday.
>
>This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
>motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
>third was off to the side.
>
>We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
>not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
>exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
>have a lot of large raptor birds around here.

...

You screwed several large raptors out of several kittens without their
eyes open yet that was abandoned by their mother!

That was DINNER!!

John Kuthe...

[Michael OConnor]

I took in two abandoned kittens about 18 months ago, they were living
in a storm drain in front of my apartment, and I was putting out food
for the mom and later the kittens at my front door, but the mom
disappeared, and the kittens were about six weeks old. The kittens
were still coming to my door to eat, and one day I opened the door and
put the food inside and they came in and I closed the door behind
them. Within a day they were using the litter box, and they took
pretty well to domestication, although they're still about two or
three percent feral in that they will not let me pick them up and
they're still very shy around others. It also took several months to
get them used to the adult cat I already had; I pretty much had to
keep the adult cat locked up in one half of the apartment while the
kittens had the other half of the apartment, and they get along fine
now. The kittens, both female, were fixed as soon as they hit six
months of age, and go to the vet regularly, and are nearly full grown
now and very affectionate toward me.

[bigwheel]

'Janet Wilder[_1_ Wrote:
> ;1835561']We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old

We had a large crisis of abandoned kittens around our house not long ago
when somebody started trapping the grown cats in the neighborhood and
handing them over to the dog catcher. Left a bunch of baby cats without
Mommys. That is where one of our favorite current cats came from. He was
under the pickup clinging to the under carriage and screaming like a
banshee. He has turned out to be a character. Mama could have got run
over..eaten by raptors etc. Never had a putty tat that would run off and
leave its babies knowingly/willingly.




--
bigwheel

[Brooklyn1]

A few dollars for a blood test at a vet would have determined if they
carried any communicable disease. And besides it's pretty easy to
isolate kittens... I had Peach isolated for five days in a small guest
bedroom while she was recovering from a serious viral infection. A
couple of newborn kittens can be kept in a carrier where the other
animals can't reach until it's determined that they are safe. Anyway
that the kittens were diseased is just a lame excuse concocted after
the fact for not doing the right thing. It takes someone with a very
evil streak to sentence perfectly healthy kittens to death. It's not
very difficult to care for newborn kittens until a home is found for
them, shouldn't take more than a couple three days to find a home for
newborn kittens. Those kittens deserved to live.

[Brooklyn1]

I brought Cali's kittens into my house right after she brought them
down from the barn's rafters. She was no longer nursing them so they
would have starved. They were three weeks old then, now they are five
weeks. Caring for them in a spare room is no effort to speak of, and
what a joy, I sit for hours with them crawling all over me. They have
names now. The calico is Kali. The blondish one is Sonic (he's a
dervish). The black one is Barny (born in a barn). I'm going to miss
them when they go to their new home.

[Cheryl]

On 5/20/2013 2:52 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:

> We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
> doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
> home next Wednesday.
>

> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
> third was off to the side.
>
> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
> not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
> exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
> have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
> house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
> might have had.
>
> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
> ants found them.
>
> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
> more care than I am capable of giving)
>
> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.

2 of mine were from a litter that the mom never came back to. They were
taken inside his home at about 4 weeks of age, so nearly weaning age. I
brought them to my home when they were about 7 weeks old - he wanted to
keep them all together as long as possible, but they were all sick from
URIs and they kept spreading it to each other, even once one would be
getting better. He never found the mother or found what happened to her.
It could be anything but my first thought is something happened to
her. A mother would never willingly abandon her litter.

I'm so sorry you had to experience that. :(

--
CAPSLOCK�Preventing Login Since 1980.

[Cheryl]

On 5/20/2013 8:23 PM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>

> On 5/20/2013 8:07 PM, Cheri wrote:
>

>> I don't, not at all. I think you're doing a good thing with the
>> fostering of the 5 week old.
>

> I don't, either.
>
> You had a very tough choice to make.
>
> Susan
>
Ditto. VERY hard choice.

[Cheryl]

On 5/20/2013 3:58 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> My wife has recommended that she gets rid of the cats because she's
> pregnant. I don't know the details but my understanding is that cats are
> dangerous during a pregnancy. I thought that she understood this and was
> surprised that she brought the cat home with her last night.

Most people are worried about toxoplasmosis being transmitted to a
pregnant mother, and then to her baby. All the pregnant mom has to do
is not handle the litter and make sure someone keeps litterboxes clean.
But I do understand why someone would be nervous about it. It's very
real, especially with cats that you don't know the history of.

[jmcquown]

On 5/20/2013 3:04 PM, billn wrote:
> "Janet Wilder" wrote:
>>
>> We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
>> doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a
>> forever home next Wednesday.
>>
>> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
>> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
>> third was off to the side.

(snippage)

>> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried
>> looking on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There
>> are a number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
>

> What a heartbreaking situation, Janet.
>
> Unfortunately I have no answer, except maybe she was killed somehow.
> But that doesn't answer the question here.
>
I agree, it is heartbreaking. I'm thinking the mother was killed rather
than she abandoned the kittens. I suppose there are some reasons mother
cats do abandon a litter but given where she lives I'd be more likely to
think she couldn't come back.

Please don't feel guilty, Janet. You can't save the world, but thank
you for trying. :)

Jill

[T]

In article <519a70d3$0$28546$c3e8da3$aae7...@news.astraweb.com>,
kellie...@yahoo.com says...

>
> We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
> doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
> home next Wednesday.
>
> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
> third was off to the side.
>

> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
> not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
> exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
> have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
> house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
> might have had.
>
> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
> ants found them.
>
> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
> more care than I am capable of giving)
>

> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.

Mom might have been a feral. If the food supply isn't good they'll
abandon their litter.

[Julie Bove]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519a964d$0$598$c3e8da3$b280...@news.astraweb.com...

Should be fine as long as she's careful. Can wear disposable gloves while
scooping. Get rid of what is scooped right away, then wash hands. Probably
wouldn't hurt to wear an ear loop mask too. I didn't use the gloves or
mask. Just washed my hands after. No problems.

[Michael OConnor]

> I brought Cali's kittens into my house right after she brought them
> down from the barn's rafters.  She was no longer nursing them so they
> would have starved.  They were three weeks old then, now they are five
> weeks.  Caring for them in a spare room is no effort to speak of, and
> what a joy, I sit for hours with them crawling all over me.  They have
> names now.  The calico is Kali.  The blondish one is Sonic (he's a
> dervish).  The black one is Barny (born in a barn).  I'm going to miss
> them when they go to their new home.

The best cat toy for kittens is ping pong balls; they'll chase them
all over the room. My two younger cats, their new favorite toy is the
yoyo; they love to swat at the yoyo when it comes down, and they also
love to bat it around if I hold it above their heads.

[Janet Wilder]

Thanks, Cheri.

[Janet Wilder]

Thanks to both of you.

[Janet Wilder]

You did a wonderful thing! Luckily the kittens were already weaned
(probably why the mom left). Infant kittens need constant attention.
They have to be hand fed. They have to be kept warm (we use a space
heater)and they have to be wiped frequently so that they can eliminate.

[Janet Wilder]

Have you ever cared for newborn kittens? Most of them, when under a
week of age, require tube feeding as they can't handle even an eye
dropper. These were maybe 4 days old and still had their umbilical cords.

No one wants to take in a kitten that is a 24/7 job to care for. There
is no way to find a home for kittens this small who can't even go pee or
poop without human intervention.

I am now fostering my fifth kitten. The ones we get are about 2 weeks
old. The shelter doesn't even foster out newborns.

As for our commitment to animals, I'd match my contributions to the
local Humane Society and several national animal rescue charities
against yours any day. Then there are the hours spent volunteering at
the local shelter, but what would you know about that.

[Janet Wilder]

The mom had to be a feral as there is no one else around me to have
owned a cat. We are in a very serious drought, so the food supply could
be low. We haven't seen any jack rabbits, ground-nesting birds or
rodents for at least 6 months.

[Janet Wilder]

On 5/21/2013 12:25 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 18:59:30 -0500, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> That could very well be. There are some huge raptors around here,
>> including eagles. There are also feral dogs and coyotes. I live out in
>> the country.
>
> I have coyotes and bobcats. And nothing will decimate the local cat
> population more than those two. Most can't get into the actual
> neighborhood easily because of the fencing. And if they do they
> usually have a hell of a time getting back out - especially the deer.
>
> -sw
>

I live outside the city in an agricultural area. No trees (other than
the ones I planted) and lots of open fields. Though I have a board
fence, there are places under the fence where small creatures could come
in or out.

[Ophelia]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:519ab993$0$40727$c3e8da3$3304...@news.astraweb.com...
> On 5/20/2013 4:31 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>> merryb wrote:
>>> Janet Wilder wrote:
>>>>

>>>> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
>>>> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
>>>> third was off to the side.
>>>>
>>>> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
>>>> not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
>>>> exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
>>>> have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
>>>> house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
>>>> might have had.
>>>>
>>>> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped
>>>> up
>>>> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
>>>> ants found them.
>>>>
>>>> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
>>>> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down.
>>>> (Of
>>>> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
>>>> more care than I am capable of giving)
>>>>
>>>> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried
>>>> looking
>>>> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
>>>> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
>>>

Of course you are not heartless!!! Where do they think the kittens come
from that you take on??? Perhaps if there were more people like you, those
kittens would have been fostered on as you have fostered others!! You are
doing as much as you can, and you are correct, it wouldn't have been fair to
the little one you have taken responsibility for. You took them to the
shelter. It is not your fault there are not more kind people to foster
them.
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Brooklyn1]

Several.

>Most of them, when under a
>week of age, require tube feeding as they can't handle even an eye
>dropper.

Tube feeding? You don't know what tube feeding is.
Newborn kittens nurse from a wee bottle that can be found at any pet
store. It's no effort at all caring for newborn kittens, they grow
fast, and they sleep most of the time. By four weeks they eat from a
bowl and use a litter pan.

[Brooklyn1]

Susan wrote:
>
>Sadly, there are just too many kittens and not all get saved.
>
>That's the real problem.

Actually the real problem is that there are too many people.

[Julie Bove]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519b7a3b$0$58042$c3e8da3$3863...@news.astraweb.com...

A woman from our dance studio fosters all kinds of animals. She once
brought a sick newborn kitten to the dress rehearsal for the recital. This
of course stirred up all sorts of attention by kids and adults. Oh look! A
cute little kitten! She was none too happy at all the attention because the
kitten was so sick. She said it was probably close to death. She probably
shouldn't have brought it there but OTOH it couldn't be left alone. Kittens
that small need constant attention.

I know another man who tried to foster some kittens that he found. His
mistake (I think) was in giving them cows milk. I didn't know any better in
those days but thought this might be wrong. He described how their bellies
just bloated up and they died. I suspect that he also didn't know how to
help them evacuate.

[Kalmia]

Not heartless. There is a limit to what one can do when confronting the cat overpopulation situation.

My shelter may've done the same - we are swamped right now with kittens and there's a lack of foster ppl, shelter space, funds for food. The beat goes on.

Glad your foster is going to a home - hope it works out.

[ChattyCathy]

On 05/20/2013 08:52 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:

> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
> more care than I am capable of giving)

I'm not a cat expert, but I love cats (and dogs). IMHO you made the
right choice. One of the vets in our neck of the woods (who spays cats
for nothing for some of the local animal shelters) did the math - and
(if IIRC) a single un-spayed female cat can be responsible for producing
something like 10000 off-spring over a 4 year period - provided half of
her female off-spring were not spayed either). Even if it's only half
that amount, it's still Scary Stuff....

>
> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.

Can't answer that with any authority, but I'd hazard a guess that
something happened to the mother cat.
--
Cheers
ChattyCathy

[Janet Wilder]

You need to do some research, Sheldon. You are making yourself look
dumber with each post.

[Nunya Bidnits]

Brooklyn1 <grave...@verizon.net> wrote:
\
< gratuitous hate crap deleted>

You're a jackass. If not for the opportunity to hate on people, you'd have
nothing to live for.

[Janet Wilder]

We give our foster babies cat milk replacement from the pet store. They
thrive on it, but it's so tasty that it's often difficult to wean them
onto regular food.

Right now our little one is eating dry kibble, but is having some
intestinal distress. Stopped for some kaopectate on the way home and
dosed her. Hope it works or we'll need a trip to the vet.

[Janet Wilder]

On 5/21/2013 11:17 AM, Sqwertz wrote:

> On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:24:58 -0700 (PDT), Michael OConnor wrote:
>
>> The best cat toy for kittens is ping pong balls; they'll chase them
>> all over the room. My two younger cats, their new favorite toy is the
>> yoyo; they love to swat at the yoyo when it comes down, and they also
>> love to bat it around if I hold it above their heads.
>

> The best cats toys, IMO, is 3-foot long the stiff wire with the 4 1"
> cardboard pegs on the end. You can stuff the end of that into a any
> secure crevice and it will provide months worth of fun (until they
> chew the cardboard off). So simple but very effective.
>
> Peacock feathers and of course the laser pointer work very well also.
>
> -sw
>

We got a laser pointer for Mickey when he was a puppy. Took him under 5
minutes to figure out that the light was coming from the pen so he want
after the pen.

The kitten likes a ping pong-size ball with a bell inside it. She also
likes some of the dog's small stuffed toys. The kitten and the dog play
with each other. It's so cute to watch them.

[Gary]

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> The best cats toys, IMO, is 3-foot long the stiff wire with the 4 1"
> cardboard pegs on the end. You can stuff the end of that into a any
> secure crevice and it will provide months worth of fun (until they
> chew the cardboard off). So simple but very effective.
>
> Peacock feathers and of course the laser pointer work very well also.

Our Mr.Kitty lived here for 19.5 years before he died. He had a grand old
time one evening when he was sitting across the living room and I opened a
pack of about 300 rubber bands. I shot each one at him and he would pounce
on it, then wait for the next one. He loved that game.

He also loved to get a round slice of a hotdog or one cooked shrimp. He
would bat it around for a long time before he finally ate it.

He was a cool cat. He also accepted the ferrets as new companions. Then
loved to climb on him. He was annoyed but he let them do that anyway.

G.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519a70d3$0$28546$c3e8da3$aae7...@news.astraweb.com...

> We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
> doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
> home next Wednesday.
>

> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our motorhome.
> Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the third was off
> to the side.
>
> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
> not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
> exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we have
> a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the house
> and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they might have
> had.

Probably nothing to fear as I am not aware of diseases that cross the two
species.

> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
> ants found them.
>
> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need more
> care than I am capable of giving)
>
> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.

Momma was probably killed by a car. It happens all the time. Or she was
killed by wild animals or domestic dogs.

[Paul M. Cook]

"dsi1" <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote in message
news:kndv1u$hmv$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/20/2013 8:52 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:

>> We are still raising a foster kitten. She's about 5 weeks old now and
>> doing fabulously well. She'll go to the shelter for shots and a forever
>> home next Wednesday.
>>
>> This morning our Toy Poodle found three tiny kittens under our
>> motorhome. Their eyes were closed. Two were huddled together and the
>> third was off to the side.
>>
>> We waited several hours to see if the mom would come back, but she did
>> not. One of them managed to move out from under the motorhome and was
>> exposed. I had to put it in a box and take it into the garage as we
>> have a lot of large raptor birds around here. Could not bring it in the
>> house and possibly expose the kitten and my dog to any diseases they
>> might have had.
>>

>> Waited again, but still no mom, so DH moved the motorhome and scooped up
>> the other two and took the three of them to the shelter before the fire
>> ants found them.
>>
>> There was no way I could handle 3 babies of less than a week old. The
>> shelter confirmed that they were about 4 days old and put them down. (Of
>> course I feel horrible, but I can't handle 3 newborns who would need
>> more care than I am capable of giving)
>>
>> My question is why do mother cats abandon their babies? I tried looking
>> on the Internet but could not find a reasonable answer. There are a
>> number of cat experts here, so I thought I'd ask.
>
>

> My guess is that the mother most often gets killed by a car - around here
> anyway. My daughter just brought home another baby kitten. That thing was
> just skin and bones. That makes three so far.
>
> My wife has recommended that she gets rid of the cats because she's
> pregnant. I don't know the details but my understanding is that cats are
> dangerous during a pregnancy. I thought that she understood this and was
> surprised that she brought the cat home with her last night.

Ancient medical BS. Toxoplasmosis has a 1 in 2 million chance of infecting
a human. She should avoid cleaning the litter boxes and was her hands
thoroughly when she does.

[Cheryl]

On 5/21/2013 1:56 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:

> Right now our little one is eating dry kibble, but is having some
> intestinal distress. Stopped for some kaopectate on the way home and
> dosed her. Hope it works or we'll need a trip to the vet.

Good luck! Just be careful with the kaopectate as they've changed the
formula and have something in it they can't have. Since you foster I'm
sure you're aware of this.

--
CAPSLOCK�Preventing Login Since 1980.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
news:b022d2...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/21/2013 3:31 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> Ancient medical BS. Toxoplasmosis has a 1 in 2 million chance of
>> infecting
>> a human.
>

> Citation please?

Citation moi. Cats with toxoplasmosis will shed the oocysts one time in
their entire lives. So the odds are that a pregnant woman exposes herself
directly to the oocysts while at a crucial stage of pregnancy and during the
one and only one day the cysts are ejected in her cat's feces during it's
average lifespan of 14 years. And the spores need 48 hours of wet
incubation to become toxic. A pregnant woman is by far more lilkely to
contract the disease from human contact since 68 million people carry it in
their blood.

I would not take those odds to Vegas.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message

news:b025kk...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/21/2013 4:36 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> Citation moi. Cats with toxoplasmosis will shed the oocysts one time in
>> their entire lives. So the odds are that a pregnant woman exposes
>> herself
>> directly to the oocysts while at a crucial stage of pregnancy and during
>> the
>> one and only one day the cysts are ejected in her cat's feces during it's
>> average lifespan of 14 years. And the spores need 48 hours of wet
>> incubation to become toxic. A pregnant woman is by far more lilkely to
>> contract the disease from human contact since 68 million people carry it
>> in
>> their blood.
>>
>> I would not take those odds to Vegas.
>
>

> http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/html/Toxoplasmosis.htm
>
> From the CDC:
> Serologic prevalence data indicate that toxoplasmosis is one of the most
> common of humans infections throughout the world.


Yep. So if you're pregnant, avoid humans. Keep your cats.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message

news:b027v4...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/21/2013 5:36 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> Yep. So if you're pregnant, avoid humans. Keep your cats.
>>
>>
>

> Did you read the common routes for human infection?
>
> I tested my cats before I got pregnant. Getting rid of them was never on
> the table, treatment was.
>
> And more precautions and hands off from me.

That was my point. Doctors have for many years condemned cats to death over
what is a very, very unlikely scenario. And simple hygiene further reduces
the odds as does a blood test. Not every cat has the organism.

[Julie Bove]

"Janet Wilder" <kellie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:519bb543$0$58724$c3e8da3$c8b7...@news.astraweb.com...

> We give our foster babies cat milk replacement from the pet store. They
> thrive on it, but it's so tasty that it's often difficult to wean them
> onto regular food.
>
> Right now our little one is eating dry kibble, but is having some
> intestinal distress. Stopped for some kaopectate on the way home and
> dosed her. Hope it works or we'll need a trip to the vet.

I had to give Maui the milk replacer for a few weeks. When I got her, I was
told that she was 10 weeks old but the vet said she couldn't possibly be
that old. Her veins were too tiny for shots. And she was very underweight.
She did not want to eat. I would feed her from a spoon. She liked that!
So when she got old and sick, using the spoon was one way to sometimes get
her to eat a little. And a very good way to get her medicine in her. She
had the milk replacer from a spoon too. Within about two weeks I got her
eating from a bowl. And she quickly put on weight.

[Julie Bove]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message

news:b025g1...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/21/2013 4:31 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>
>> Good luck! Just be careful with the kaopectate as they've changed the
>> formula and have something in it they can't have. Since you foster I'm
>> sure you're aware of this.
>>
>

> When Zoe had that issue, I had to give her Flagyl. She got terrible
> diarrhea every time her food changed. Finally got her switched over to wet
> grain free turkey and nothing else.
>
> Now, at 14, she needs Miralax to get stuff out!

Maui used to get the big D not only from food but water! I learned to give
her bottled water when we moved and would keep her on it for a few weeks,
then gradually mix in some of the tap water (if we used it). We did not
drink the tap water in NY or MA.

[Julie Bove]

"Sqwertz" <swe...@cluemail.compost> wrote in message
news:eyswh8o5783s$.dlg@sqwertz.com...

> On Tue, 21 May 2013 04:24:58 -0700 (PDT), Michael OConnor wrote:
>
>> The best cat toy for kittens is ping pong balls; they'll chase them
>> all over the room. My two younger cats, their new favorite toy is the
>> yoyo; they love to swat at the yoyo when it comes down, and they also
>> love to bat it around if I hold it above their heads.
>

> The best cats toys, IMO, is 3-foot long the stiff wire with the 4 1"
> cardboard pegs on the end. You can stuff the end of that into a any
> secure crevice and it will provide months worth of fun (until they
> chew the cardboard off). So simple but very effective.
>
> Peacock feathers and of course the laser pointer work very well also.

Ballerina got ahold of a magnolia petal the other day. She played with that
for hours!

[Janet Wilder]

On 5/21/2013 4:00 PM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/21/2013 4:31 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>

>> Good luck! Just be careful with the kaopectate as they've changed the
>> formula and have something in it they can't have. Since you foster I'm
>> sure you're aware of this.
>>
>

> When Zoe had that issue, I had to give her Flagyl. She got terrible
> diarrhea every time her food changed. Finally got her switched over to
> wet grain free turkey and nothing else.
>
> Now, at 14, she needs Miralax to get stuff out!
>

> Susan

The vet recommended a little mineral oil when our fosterlings were
constipated. That worked great for them.

[Susan]

On 5/21/2013 6:05 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:

> That was my point. Doctors have for many years condemned cats to death over
> what is a very, very unlikely scenario. And simple hygiene further reduces
> the odds as does a blood test. Not every cat has the organism.
>
>

I've never heard of a doctor saying or doing that, not to me or any of
my many pregnant friends at the time of our lives we were all having babies.

They say not to do the litter. Testing was my idea.

Susan

[Paul M. Cook]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message

news:b02fgj...@mid.individual.net...

> On 5/21/2013 6:05 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>> That was my point. Doctors have for many years condemned cats to death
>> over
>> what is a very, very unlikely scenario. And simple hygiene further
>> reduces
>> the odds as does a blood test. Not every cat has the organism.
>>
>>
>
> I've never heard of a doctor saying or doing that, not to me or any of my
> many pregnant friends at the time of our lives we were all having babies.

My mother was told every time she was pregnant to get rid of any cats she
had. It was the norm for many decades.

> They say not to do the litter. Testing was my idea.

Yes, avoiding the litter is a good idea.

[Cheryl]

As much as I love cats, I wouldn't take those odds to a baby.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Cheryl" <jlhs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:519c2bb2$0$39018$c3e8da3$dbd...@news.astraweb.com...

So before you kill your cat, just have it tested for the organism. If
positive, avoid its wet feces.

That brings your odds down to 0.

[Julie Bove]

"Cheryl" <jlhs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:519c2bb2$0$39018$c3e8da3$dbd...@news.astraweb.com...

Very easy to get the cat tested. I did.

[Paul M. Cook]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message

news:b03u30...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/21/2013 10:01 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
>>
>> My mother was told every time she was pregnant to get rid of any cats she
>> had. It was the norm for many decades.
>

> I had my baby 25 years ago. I do'nt know when your mother did.

53, 51 and 49 years ago. Last I heard they were still advising it just to
be perfectly safe.

> Getting rid of my cats was not an option I would have considered.
> Especially not My Maurice. Not even Sadie, who we really didn't like
> much... once they're yours, they're YOURS, like a kid.

So you can understand my emotional reaction to the very idea.

>>
>>> They say not to do the litter. Testing was my idea.
>>
>> Yes, avoiding the litter is a good idea.
>>
>>
>

> Believe me when I tell you I kept that up as long as I could get away with
> it. :-)

Clumping cat litter ranks up there with the best discoveries ever.

[Ema Nymton]

On 5/20/2013 2:21 PM, Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> It might be because of the dog. My cat Roscoe came from a feral litter
> where dogs ran the mother off. But they were a little older than four
> days at the time.
>
> MartyB

Mickey Charles is a quiet, sweet little dog, I have not been around him
much, but I never heard him bark. Mamma cats usually search for the
perfect place to have their babies, so she must have felt comfortable
with him being around (just a guess on my part). I am afraid she had one
unborn kitten that deceased in utero or she had a torn uterus, and she
crawled off to die somewhere. Janet and her husband do so much to save
orphan cats, that this must have been devastating for both of them.

Becca

[Gary]

Susan wrote:
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Janet Wilder, how much mineral oil, would you say? Zoe's very sensitive
> to new stuff in her food. She's 7 lbs, if that matters.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Susan

Susan.... I give mineral oil to my ferrets occasionally to prevent
hairballs. Only give a small animal about 1/4 tsp. That's enough to do the
trick. My girls will drink it plain right out of the spoon. That's the best
way if your cat will do it.

G.

[dsi1]

On 5/20/2013 11:32 AM, Janet Wilder wrote:
> They may have a disease in their poop. Don't let your pregnant daughter
> near the litter box.
>

Thanks for the info, my wife has taken over the litter box duties for now.

[dsi1]

On 5/21/2013 9:31 AM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
>
> Ancient medical BS. Toxoplasmosis has a 1 in 2 million chance of infecting

> a human. She should avoid cleaning the litter boxes and was her hands
> thoroughly when she does.
>
Thanks, I'll tell my daughter to clean her own damn litter box!

[Janet Wilder]

On 5/22/2013 8:15 AM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Janet Wilder, how much mineral oil, would you say? Zoe's very sensitive
> to new stuff in her food. She's 7 lbs, if that matters.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Susan

start with a teaspoon.

[Nunya Bidnits]

Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/22/2013 1:49 PM, Gary wrote:
>
>> Susan.... I give mineral oil to my ferrets occasionally to prevent
>> hairballs. Only give a small animal about 1/4 tsp. That's enough to
>> do the trick. My girls will drink it plain right out of the spoon.
>> That's the best way if your cat will do it.
>

> Thanks, Gary, she's using that much twice daily of Miralax, more than
> most cats twice her size.
>
> She won't drink it out of anything, I guarantee it, but since it's
> pretty tasteless, I may be able to sneak it in to her meals.
>
> Susan

I know I've read somewhere that you shouldn't give mineral oil to cats.

Why not just a little butter?

I supplement my cats' regular cat food with greasy cooked meat for snacks.
Leftover fried chicken, for example, or pork shoulder. I also give two of
them Metamucil per my vet as well as a bit of pumpkin. Romeo takes Lasix for
a heart condition and as a diuretic, it dries out his stool and he gets
constipated, which is the reason for the supplements. In his case he gets a
little butter here and there too.

MartyB

[Janet Wilder]

I am still feeling terribly sad about it. Thanks Becca for your defense
of Mickey Charles. He sends kisses.

[Cheryl]

On 5/21/2013 7:56 PM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>

> On 5/21/2013 7:46 PM, Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> The vet recommended a little mineral oil when our fosterlings were
>> constipated. That worked great for them.
>>
>

> I have it in the house; I'll try it in her breakfast tomorrow. She
> always goes right after, so I'll know.
>
> I don't want to medicate here now that she is so relaxed and trusting,
> finally after 14 years. The Flagyl routine made her scared of me again
> for a while. If she'll accept her food with mineral oil, that'll be
> great, thanks!
>
> I can't stand her scootching all over the floor like a dog with an anal
> gland problem to get it out, and having to pull it out was GROSS.
>
> Susan

I had a cat with megacolon who had to take flagyl among other things.
Flagyl has a nasty bitter taste so I'm not surprised. I always keep
empty gelcaps for any meds I have to give. Easy to put a little butter
on it to make it taste better and go down easier.

[Cheryl]

On 5/22/2013 9:06 AM, Susan wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>

> On 5/21/2013 10:21 PM, Cheryl wrote:
>
>> As much as I love cats, I wouldn't take those odds to a baby.
>>
>

> Nor I. But that doesn't mean getting rid of them is at all required.
>
> Susan

Getting rid of them wouldn't be an option for me. I agree with testing,
but I just wouldn't risk toxo if the people don't want to go the testing
route.

I only meant I would have someone else do the scooping, not get rid of
the cats.

[Nunya Bidnits]

Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>

> On 5/22/2013 8:38 PM, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>
>> I know I've read somewhere that you shouldn't give mineral oil to
>> cats.
>

> I just did a cursory look at a forum with cat rescuers and a vet
> answering. No caution against it.

So did I and now I recall why after looking it up. Mineral oil is extremely
light and for that reason it is possible for cats to accidentally aspirate
it, and that is a dire situation. Not recommended. I now recall that my own
vet gave me that advice.

Apparently there are nutritional cautions as well:


"Mineral oil is a light oil and because of that it can be easily inhaled
into the respiratory tract where it stays. It never becomes assimilated into
the body and the body can never get rid of it because of its mineral base.
Instead, the immune system tries to isolate it by forming inflammatory
granulomas.

Also this,

"Just having mineral oil around is a liability . If mineral oil is ingested,
it will absorb (and essentially rob) vitamins from the intestinal tract -
especially oil-soluble vitamins A, D and E. as well as beta-carotene,
calcium, phosphorus and potassium and the blood coagulant Vitamin K. This
could lead to nutritional deficiencies and other complications.

Ingested mineral oil also can impair lung function, a condition known as
lipoid pneumonia (New England Journal of Medicine 1998; 339:1947-1948)."

http://www.thestork.biz/mineraloil.html


If your cat is constipated, either a teaspoon or two of olive oil or a
tablespoon(level) of canned pumpkin will help to correct this. Olive oil is
a heavier oil and both canned pumpkin and olive oil are safe because they do
not have a mineral or chemical base ".

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=25521


I'll stick with pumpkin, greasy meat and butter. And Metamucil, mixed with a
little water in the can before adding it to wet food, per my vet.

MartyB