Help me with my 1st Chicken Stock PLEASE!!
Bill C.
like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
expecting a more
chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much chicken
flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
Bill
Jill McQuown
>Bill
>
Bill,
I don't know about Emeril... from what I read, he's over-rated.
I do my grandmothers version. It's not written for a cookbook... it's
written for a home. Cut a 3 lb. chicken up and brown it in a little butter.
Place it in a deep stock pot. Add about 8 c. water, 3 stalks celery,
chopped, 1 large yellow onion, quartered, 3 carrots, chopped, 1/2 tsp.
peppercorns, 3 tsp. salt, 2 bay leaves. Bring to a simmer. Skim the foam
off the top. Cover and continue to simmer on very low heat for about 3
hours. Strain all the stuff through a mesh strainer. (Reserve the chicken
meat at this point to make some other lovely things.) Chill the stock and
skim the fat off the top. It's "like a soup".
Jill
Goomba
> I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
> like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
> expecting a more
> chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much chicken
> flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
Bill, it's a learning experience. Some folks try to toss one small
chicken carcass in a pot and cover with a gallon of water and expect
something like chicken soup to come out. I think at first a common
problem over dilution- using too much water. What chicken parts did
you use? How much water? Starting with cold water helps as it heats up
it leaches the flavour out of the chicken. Did you add onion, celery,
parsley, seasonings? You're only making the stock so these items can
often be old (actually, sometimes the older the better, as a stronger
flavour develops and it's a good way to use up old produce) and you'll
just be tossing them out after the stock is made.
Jack Schidt
I take whatever bones of the chicken or turkey I've cooked already (grilled,
roasted, whatever) and let them soak in the water while I'm cutting up the
onions (skins on), celery, garlic and whatever I need to clean out of the
refrigerator (soup quality, not fresh but not moldy either). I then boil
this for a couple of hours, adding parsley and whatever herbs come to mind,
cooking down the water to about half of what I originally put in. I think
it's important that we stress quality and not quantity here. Half a gallon
of good stock is better than a full gallon of weak stuff. Once the stock is
down to the quantity I like, I take the pot and place it in the spare reefer
so it cools quickly. next day, skim off fat and store in freezer containers
for future use. I'm not an expert, but I think this is a good jumping off
point for other posts to add ingredients and procedures - let 'er rip,
folks.
Now, here's a funny story about chicken stock, I think funnier than Emeril
could dream up. Yeah it's Martha Stewart and her chicken stock on her
syndicated TV show. Ready for this?
2 free range cornish game hens
3 Vidalia onions (mail ordered of course)
fresh, organic celery, garlic and parsley
spring water
other ingredients that I don't remember offhand, but trust me, there was
more to this.
I'm no expert, but I figure Martha had an $80 chicken stock going here.
have fun,
Jack
--
"If we haven't met, you really don't know Jack Schidt"
Holly D. Monnich
"Bill C." wrote:
> I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
> like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
> expecting a more
> chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much chicken
> flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
>
> Bill
I don't know how Emeril makes chicken stock but the way I do it is to boil a
whole chicken with some onions and garlic until the chicken is falling off of
the bone. I usually do this with my pressure cooker. Then I drain off the
broth, store it in glass jars (let it cool down before putting on the lids) and
store the jars in the fridge. When I'm ready to use my broth/stock, I scoop the
fat off of the top and toss it in the trash, micro the jar for about 1 minute
and jiggle the gelatinous mass into whatever it is I am needing the broth for.
Mind you, I cook a lot at home and this is just a cheap, easy and convenient way
for me to avoid waste when making things that call for chunks of cooked chicken
and/or broth.
Is the recipe you used in the T.V. Dinners cookbook? If so, I can look it up in
my own copy and see what it says, maybe help you understand why the stock isn't
richer.
Good luck.
Karen Wheless
> roasted, whatever) and let them soak in the water while I'm cutting up the
> onions (skins on), celery, garlic and whatever I need to clean out of the
> refrigerator (soup quality, not fresh but not moldy either). I then boil
> this for a couple of hours, adding parsley and whatever herbs come to mind,
> cooking down the water to about half of what I originally put in. I think
> it's important that we stress quality and not quantity here.
I find it very convenient to make stock in my crock pot. This is the
basic recipe I use, although I usually leave some meat on the bones of
the chicken, and add just enough water to cover the chicken. Leave the
crockpot on low all day, then strain. This makes a very rich stock,
depending on how much water it may even be double strength. I have to
dilute it when I make soup. Usually I dump it all in the crockpot after
dinner, then let it go overnight and strain in the morning. That way I
don't have to monitor a stove burner for several hours, I don't even
have to be home.
Karen Wheless
--
kwhe...@rockland.net
http://members.dencity.com/regencyread/
PENMART10
>
>> I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
>> like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
>> expecting a more
>> chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much
>chicken
>> flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
You can only get out what you put in... try this one.
INGREDIENTS
1 Large Chicken: 6+ pounds (quartered), inc. giblets, exc. liver.
6 quarts water.
1 lge. onion, peeled, halved.
1 cup celery w/tops, rough chopped.
2 lge. carrots, unpeeled, sliced lengthwise.
1 lge. parsnip, unpeeled, sliced lengthwise.
1 med. scrubed potato, whole, unpeeled.
4 cloves garlic, halved.
10 sprigs fresh parsely.
10 sprigs fresh dill weed.
10 black pepper corns.
10 white pepper corns.
4 whole cloves.
4 lge. bay leaves.
1 sm. piece blade mace.
Method
Place all ingredients in a large (8-10 qt.) stainless steel pot.
Add cold water to cover.
Bring to the boil.
Lower heat to keep just at the simmer.
Skim as needed.
Partially cover, and simmer for 3 hours.
Remove chicken, and strain.
Discard vegetables.
Sheldon
````````````
On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
"I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
Dimitri
Bill C. wrote in message ...
>like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
>expecting a more
>chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much
chicken
>flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
>
Not having seen or made the recipe it is difficult to comment on the exact
ingredients or ratios.
Stock, however is *not* soup. Stock is not intended to have a heavy flavor
like a soup not should it be salted.
Your description of *chicken water* does in fact sound like you have made a
decent stock. Remember, after you make the stock and clarify it, the stock
is used as the base for soups or flavoring agents for other dishes.
Regards,
Dimitri
Bill C.
PENMART10
<DIMI...@prodigy.net> writes:
>Bill C. wrote in message ...
>>I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
>>like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
>>expecting a more
>>chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much
>chicken
>>flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
>>
>>Bill
Bill, so far you've not shown your recipe, therefore it's difficult, if not
impossible to comment on your perceived dilemma with any degree of accuracy
except to surmise you've boiled water without much in it.
Although resulting in a thin liquid, stock is still considered a soup, albiet a
thin/clear soup as averse to say soups at the other end of the spectrum,
chowders/bisques. Chicken stock, properly prepared, should most definitely be
richly flavorful ••• or else why bother ••• if your stock turns out weak it may
still be salvageable through reduction, providing it was made with good stuff
to begin with, no concentrate of crap, pleeze!
A well made stock should stand on it's own and not be called upon to derive its
flavor by stealing/robbing flavor from added ingredients. Those who rely upon
the flavor from additions to flavor their stock are merely remaking stock by
once again extracting more flavor and then may as well toss out those used up
solids also for they'll be tasteless and nondescript, sorta like canned
fruitcocktail.
A lotta folks have the fercocktah notion that stock is made from relatively
free stuff, trimmings, scraps and veggies unfit for the table (aka garbage),
NOT! A good stock needs good wholesome ingredients and plenty of em. I for
one do not want to eat extract of garbage, and if that's how you cook please do
not ever invite me to your table. If I wanted boullion cubes (made from
garbage) I'd buy those.
Hint: For a beautiful, clear, richly flavored *golden* chicken stock use only
the unboned chicken breasts, wings, feet and skin (no dark meat or organs).
And for heaven sake, do not stir your stock.
soup [Epicurious)
Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish cooked
in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ), smooth
(like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
>Not having seen or made the recipe it is difficult to comment on the exact
>ingredients or ratios.
>
>Stock, however is *not* soup. Stock is not intended to have a heavy flavor
>like a soup not should it be salted.
>
>Your description of *chicken water* does in fact sound like you have made a
>decent stock. Remember, after you make the stock and clarify it, the stock
>is used as the base for soups or flavoring agents for other dishes.
>
>Regards,
>Dimitri
Bill C.
5lbs raw chicken bones
8 quarts cold water
2 cups chopped carrots
2 cups chopped celery
2 cups chopped yellow onions
6 peeled garlic cloves
2 tea salt (to season veggies)
and a bouquet garni(6 sprigs fresh thyme,2 bay leaves, 15 peppercorns,5
sprigs fresh parsley) Brought to boil and turned down heat & let simmer 2.5
hrs.
>
> Bill, so far you've not shown your recipe, therefore it's difficult, if
not
> impossible to comment on your perceived dilemma with any degree of
accuracy
> except to surmise you've boiled water without much in it.
>
> Although resulting in a thin liquid, stock is still considered a soup,
albiet a
> thin/clear soup as averse to say soups at the other end of the spectrum,
> chowders/bisques. Chicken stock, properly prepared, should most
definitely be
> richly flavorful ... or else why bother ... if your stock turns out weak
Dimitri
PENMART10 wrote in message <19990920114935...@ngol06.aol.com>...
>In article <7s5g4k$3jt4$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Dimitri"
><DIMI...@prodigy.net> writes:
<Lots snipped>
>soup [Epicurious)
>Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
cooked
>in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
smooth
>(like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
stock (also epicurious)
In the most basic terms, stock is the strained liquid
that is the result of cooking vegetables, meat or fish
and other seasoning ingredients in water. A brown
stock is made by browning bones, vegetables and
other ingredients before they're cooked in the liquid.
Most soups begin with a stock of some kind, and
many sauces are based on REDUCED stocks.
Regards,
Dimitri
Lin Nah
>I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
>like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
>expecting a more
>chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much chicken
>flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
Most basic is chicken with water and a bit of salt boiled for ages.
We used to have one whole chicken, cover with water and a tablespoon of
salt in a pot on the stove for about 2 - 3 hours. SOme people take off
the skin before doing so. However since we usually just dropped the frozen
chicken into a pot of cold water, it takes ages for everything to warm up
and start simmering. (grin). It is then drained via colander saving the
stock in container, allowing it to cool before putting it in the fridge.
What this does is allow the fat to rice to the top and you can choose to
skim it off later on or not. We usually left it there until we wanted to
use the stock. It just seemed to us that if we took it off too soon,
the stock goes off faster.
The chicken is deskinned and deboned. Meat is shredded and can be used
for chicken sandwiches or other dishes that uses plain shredded chicken.
This stock is very plain and you can then do with it to cook other things.
It is only influenced by the chicken and salt.
If you boil it for a shorter time, (providing chicken is cooked) or use
too much water you'll just end up with a weaker stock. Usually the pot I
use just fits one chicken and I cover it with water. It is not a disaster.
Another stock is the enriched stock. This is where you boil chicken or
chicken bones with water and other things. The problem with this is you
have already added flavour to your stock and so sometimes it may not be
right for more some dishes (again depending on what you cook). Along
with the chicken, people add garlic, onion, perhaps even ginger, bayleaves
and herbs. You will also find recipes where veges like carrots and celery.
This is not a bad stock and can be used about anywhere
Good luck
Lin
--
East Timor Action Network http://www.etan.org/
BBC World Special Report on East Timor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1999/05/99/east_timor/
Peter Aitken
approach is to save raw wings, necks, and backs in the freezer until you
have enough. Another admittedly extravagent approach is to devote an entire
roaster to the stock.
1) Put a split 4-5 lb roasting chicken or the same weight in necks, backs,
and wings in a stock pot. Cover with cold water by at least 2 inches and
slowly bring to a simmer. NEVER let the stock boil, it will incorporate fat
into the liquid and it will not be clear. Cook at the barest simmer for
about 45 minutes skimming scum and fat from the surface occasionally.
2) If you used a whole chicken, remove it and take whatever meat you want
off the carcass, and save it for chicken salad, etc. Return everything else
to the pot.
3. Add:
1 medium onion, peeled and halved, each half stuck with 1 clove.
2 ribs celery with leaves
1 large or 2 medium scraped carrots
4 garlic cloves - need not be peeled.
10 whole peppercorns
3 bay leaves
4. Return to the barest simmer, being careful not to boil. Simmer for about
1 hour.
5. Strain through a collander to remove large pieces then through
cheesecloth to remove fine particles. Skim fat from surface and add salt to
taste.
Peter G. Aitken
Bill C. <Newsg...@gqpolo.freeservers.com> wrote in message
news:3ftF3.168$fj.11485@news...
PENMART10
<Newsg...@gqpolo.freeservers.com> writes:
>here's what I did:
>5lbs raw chicken bones
>8 quarts cold water
>2 cups chopped carrots
>2 cups chopped celery
>2 cups chopped yellow onions
>6 peeled garlic cloves
>2 tea salt (to season veggies)
>and a bouquet garni(6 sprigs fresh thyme,2 bay leaves, 15 peppercorns,5
>sprigs fresh parsley) Brought to boil and turned down heat & let simmer 2.5
>hrs.
Plain old chicken bones, that's why! Looks like you prepared that garbage
swill I spoke about. Just bones won't add much flavor, you can add some to
stretch a scrawny chicken, but for chicken stock ya gotta first have a chicken,
preferably one with lotsa meat on her bones -- pick up a fat old hen with D
cups! You made stone soup with little more'n stones.
>> soup [Epicurious)
>> Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
>cooked
>> in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
>smooth
>> (like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
>>
>>
PENMART10
<DIMI...@prodigy.net> writes:
>PENMART10 wrote in message <19990920114935...@ngol06.aol.com>...
>>In article <7s5g4k$3jt4$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Dimitri"
>><DIMI...@prodigy.net> writes:
>
>
><Lots snipped>
>
>
>>soup [Epicurious)
>>Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
>cooked
>>in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
>smooth
>>(like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
>
>
>
>stock (also epicurious)
>
>In the most basic terms, stock is the strained liquid
>that is the result of cooking vegetables, meat or fish
>and other seasoning ingredients in water. A brown
>stock is made by browning bones, vegetables and
>other ingredients before they're cooked in the liquid.
>Most soups begin with a stock of some kind, and
>many sauces are based on REDUCED stocks.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dimitri
>
<nothing snipped because there's nothing written>
Yep, previously read that definition. And so, pertaining to achieving a
qualitive/quantative degree of flavor in chicken stock, posting this is in
support of what...?
Taken out of context neither definition means very much, if anything, relative
of the original poster's dilemma. Most of us, including the original poster,
know what stock IS... it's HELP with HOW to achieve a superiour one that's in
question (see Subject line). So basically you say little, in fact you actually
communicate nothing at all.
Holly D. Monnich
page 8, states:
"4 pounds raw chicken bones, ***including the carcass and necks***, rinsed in
cold water"
In other words, a four pound chicken.
"Bill C." wrote:
> here's what I did:
> 5lbs raw chicken bones
> 8 quarts cold water
> 2 cups chopped carrots
> 2 cups chopped celery
> 2 cups chopped yellow onions
> 6 peeled garlic cloves
> 2 tea salt (to season veggies)
> and a bouquet garni(6 sprigs fresh thyme,2 bay leaves, 15 peppercorns,5
> sprigs fresh parsley) Brought to boil and turned down heat & let simmer 2.5
> hrs.
>
> >
> > soup [Epicurious)
> > Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
> cooked
> > in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
> smooth
> > (like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
> >
> >
> > >Not having seen or made the recipe it is difficult to comment on the
> exact
> > >ingredients or ratios.
> > >
> > >Stock, however is *not* soup. Stock is not intended to have a heavy
> flavor
> > >like a soup not should it be salted.
> > >
> > >Your description of *chicken water* does in fact sound like you have made
> a
> > >decent stock. Remember, after you make the stock and clarify it, the
> stock
> > >is used as the base for soups or flavoring agents for other dishes.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Dimitri
> >
> >
Dimitri
PENMART10 wrote in message <19990920141403...@ngol06.aol.com>...
>In article <7s5or8$12s2$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Dimitri"
><DIMI...@prodigy.net> writes:
>>
>>
>>>soup [Epicurious)
>>>Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
>>cooked
>>>in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
>>smooth
>>>(like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>In the most basic terms, stock is the strained liquid
>>that is the result of cooking vegetables, meat or fish
>>and other seasoning ingredients in water. A brown
>>stock is made by browning bones, vegetables and
>>other ingredients before they're cooked in the liquid.
>>Most soups begin with a stock of some kind, and
>>many sauces are based on REDUCED stocks.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Dimitri
>>
>
><nothing snipped because there's nothing written>
>
>Yep, previously read that definition. And so, pertaining to achieving a
>qualitive/quantative degree of flavor in chicken stock, posting this is in
>support of what...?
>
>Taken out of context neither definition means very much, if anything,
relative
>of the original poster's dilemma. Most of us, including the original
poster,
>know what stock IS... it's HELP with HOW to achieve a superiour one that's
in
>question (see Subject line). So basically you say little, in fact you
actually
>communicate nothing at all.
>
>
>Sheldon
I thought the definitions were quite clear - Both of them. Especially the
statement "Most soups begin with a stock of some kind". When comparing the
2 definitions my conclusion is the same as stated in the original post I
made.
Since soups are made *from* stocks by definition stocks are or should be
weaker than a soup.
To me, the purpose of the stock is to add enough depth to the soup (or other
use) thereby allowing the flavors of the ingredients to bloom. Many times
people over season and make the stock so rich or flavorful the stock will
overpower the ingredients of the soup.
Regards,
Dimitri
Bill C.
wrong??
Holly D. Monnich <rob...@io.com> wrote in message
news:37E67BBD...@io.com...
Nexis
For good flavor, the best thing you can do it find yourself an old
stewing hen. The younger the chicken, the less flavor it will add to your
stock. I read your recipe in your subsequent post, and while most of it
sounds good, there are a few things I would change. First I would never use
just chicken bones, although I do add wings, backs and necks with the
stewing hen. Also, I never chop up the veggies, as by the time the stock is
finished they are cooked beyond recognition anyway. If you like veggies in
your soup, just dice some extra, and add after you've strained the stock.
For an extra oomph of flavor, try quickly browning all the meat and bones. I
usually do the hen in a fried chicken skillet (big and about 3 inches deep)
and toss the rest in the oven at a higher temp for a few minutes, just until
browned. I then put it all in my stock pot and add cold water, 2 onions,
quartered; a couple cloves of garlic, a stalk or two of celery, 2 carrots, a
couple sage leaves, a stalk of rosemary, and fresh ground pepper.
kimberly
Bill C. <Newsg...@gqpolo.freeservers.com> wrote in message
news:hfaF3.141$fj.9095@news...
> I made my first chicken stock<followed recipe from Emeril> and it tastes
> like chicken water. My question is, is that how stock tastes? I was
> expecting a more
> chicken soup type flavor, It has great color and aroma, but not much
chicken
> flavor. Any help would be greatly apprecated.
>
> Bill
>
>
First Last
>
> here's what I did:
> 5lbs raw chicken bones
> 8 quarts cold water
> 2 cups chopped carrots
> 2 cups chopped celery
> 2 cups chopped yellow onions
> 6 peeled garlic cloves
> 2 tea salt (to season veggies)
> and a bouquet garni(6 sprigs fresh thyme,2 bay leaves, 15 peppercorns,5
> sprigs fresh parsley) Brought to boil and turned down heat & let simmer 2.5
> hrs.
>
> >
> > Theoretically, a soup can be any combination of vegetables, meat or fish
> cooked
> > in a liquid. It may be thick (like GUMBO), thin (such as a CONSOMMÉ),
> smooth
> > (like a BISQUE) or chunky (CHOWDER or BOUILLABAISSE).
> >
> >
> exact
> > >ingredients or ratios.
> > >
> > >Stock, however is *not* soup. Stock is not intended to have a heavy
> flavor
> > >like a soup not should it be salted.
> > >
> > >Your description of *chicken water* does in fact sound like you have made
> a
> > >decent stock. Remember, after you make the stock and clarify it, the
> stock
> > >is used as the base for soups or flavoring agents for other dishes.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Dimitri
> >
> >
> > Sheldon
> > ````````````
> > On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
> > "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
> >
perhaps ham or turkey bones to give it flavor. Some people make it too
thick.
SportKite1
>for chicken sandwiches or other dishes that uses plain shredded chicken.
Hiya Lin & foodies,
Not that I'm picking on you, but several people have said this. I make a killer
stock and would NEVER use the chicken meat after it's been strained. Tasteless
stuff only worthy throwing away. Tried feeding some to the dog once. Even SHE
wouldn't eat it...lol.
I'm one of those I suppose that figgers if the flavor has gone into the
stock/soup/whatever, it sure isn't gonna be found in the meat. If I'm making
chicken soup later on I simply poach a little thigh and breast meat in it and
dice up. But then dat's just da way I do it!
Oh, and definitely making stock from a whole stewing hen is better than frozen
cast off parts. Did that, hated the results, never did it again. Stuff tasted
like freezer to me.
Best stock I've ever made was from a fully roasted chicken with the drippings.
Rich, golden, aromatic and well worth the extra hour to bake in the oven.
Color My Sky, Ellen
http://www.x-kites.com
Holly D. Monnich
curious. The only way I know of to effectively do this is to boil the chicken
'til it falls off of the bone. When you say you used the carcass, define
carcass. I think therein lies our problem.
And for the most part, whoever it was that said that stock is not supposed to
taste that strong is correct. But it's not supposed to taste mostly like
water. If it tasted like chicken and it was good, you done good. :)
"Bill C." wrote:
> I just used the bones including the carcass and necks no meat, did I do it
> wrong??
>
> Holly D. Monnich <rob...@io.com> wrote in message
> news:37E67BBD...@io.com...
> > I would like to point out that this recipe, according to Emeril's TV
> dinners,
> > page 8, states:
> >
> > "4 pounds raw chicken bones, ***including the carcass and necks***, rinsed
> in
> > cold water"
> >
> > In other words, a four pound chicken.
> >
PENMART10
writes:
>How did you get chicken bones with no meat? I'm not criticizing, I'm
>genuinely
>curious. The only way I know of to effectively do this is to boil the
>chicken 'til it falls off of the bone.
Errm, folks have been known to amass previously gnawed bones. Hey, anyone who
thinks weak stock is the norm has probably been weaned on those POW style
vittles.
Kate B
SportKite1 wrote in message
<19990920174456...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
For "stock" I usually use roasted bones and neck and sometimes wings unless
I am specifically making chicken stock for chicken soup in which case I will
include some thigh and leg meat which I will remove from the stock pot after
about an hour or less. I separate the cooked meat from the bones and
refrigerate it until needed to add to the soup once the stock is made. The
bones get returned to the stock pot. Any longer than one hour and I agree
that the meat becomes tasteless mush. For "broth" or what my grandmother
called "brodo" I use cut up chicken or capon and turkey and beef shanks-
meat and all. I consider broth a stand on its' own dish which, depending on
the intended ultimate use, may form the base for a soup or sauce but is
intensely flavored enough to make a wonderful restorative broth with merely
the addition of a handful of freshly grated parmesan cheese or to which some
homemade tortellini is added. I discard the meat, bones and vegetables
after straining and assiduously pressing down on the solids to extract all
of the flavors. My "brodo" cooks for at least 13 hours to specifically
leach out every possible bit of flavor into the broth. The idea is to
convert the meat into flavorless mush worthy of being discarded ;-) after
having contributed greatly to the flavor of the broth.
I agree with Dimitri that "stock", at least as I define it, is merely a base
on which to create a soup, a flavoring agent or sauce. "Broth", in my
lexicon, is something that can stand on its' own merits or as a somewhat
intense base for heartier soups or sauces. Delicate vegetable soups would
be overwhelmed by attempting to use my "broth" as "stock". To me "stock" is
not supposed to be strong in flavor but a background "noise" that improves
and pulls together what will ultimately become a finished dish.
For generic poultry stock I use roasted bones and vegetables cooked in a hot
oven until the vegetables start to caramelize and the bones darken.
Frequently my stock is made with whatever vegetables have been sitting in my
fridge for too long. This usually means coarsely chopped celery, carrots,
onions, a turnip studded with a few cloves, garlic, tomatoes or whatever.
The bones and vegetables are added to the stock pot (minus accumulated fat
in the pan which is discarded) and the roasting pan is deglazed with a bit
of white or red wine to loosen up the caramelized bits clinging to the pan
and then added to the stock pot. Cold water is added to cover the solids by
a few inches and the stock pot is set to simmer on the stove. Herbs like
leaves and other dried herbs are then added. The stock is simmered,
skimming frequently, for a few hours then strained, chilled and defatted.
I have posted my favorite broth recipe several times in the past so check
deja news for specifics. The starting point is from Lynne Rosetto Kasper's
recipe for brodo in "The Splendid Table" which includes fresh cut up capon
or turkey wings and beef shanks and a variety of vegetables similar to those
used in the stock recipe above. The broth meats and vegetables are not
roasted but are covered with several inches of cold water and simmered for
about 13 hours during which time skimming is fairly frequent during the
first few hours. The finish is the same as the stock.
Kate
Bill C.
on
the bird, didn't use the liver(too gamey I was told)
Holly D. Monnich <rob...@io.com> wrote in message
news:37E6B552...@io.com...
> How did you get chicken bones with no meat? I'm not criticizing, I'm
genuinely
> curious. The only way I know of to effectively do this is to boil the
chicken
> 'til it falls off of the bone. When you say you used the carcass, define
> carcass. I think therein lies our problem.
> And for the most part, whoever it was that said that stock is not supposed
to
Dave Miner
>
>I don't know any better, but I think my stock is pretty kick ass.
>
>roasted, whatever) and let them soak in the water while I'm cutting up the
>onions (skins on), celery, garlic and whatever I need to clean out of the
>refrigerator (soup quality, not fresh but not moldy either). I then boil
>this for a couple of hours, adding parsley and whatever herbs come to mind,
>cooking down the water to about half of what I originally put in. I think
>of good stock is better than a full gallon of weak stuff. Once the stock is
>down to the quantity I like, I take the pot and place it in the spare reefer
>so it cools quickly. next day, skim off fat and store in freezer containers
>for future use. I'm not an expert, but I think this is a good jumping off
>point for other posts to add ingredients and procedures - let 'er rip,
>folks.
>Jack
I was taught to crack or break all the bones in order to expose the marrow
for even more flavor extraction. Does anybody else do this? My stock always
turns out pretty well, but I've never done a side-by-side comparison of this,
i.e., broken vs whole bones.
I also don't add any salt until the very end (if at all), otherwise the
evaporation can result in a too-salty stock.
When I'm making stock to be frozen I prefer to leave the fat layer on because
it provides yet another layer of protection against freezer bite. Later,
when taken out of the freezer to use it, the fat layer is very easy to scrape
off after only minimal thawing.
Just my 3 cents worth!
DaveM
Derek Lyons
Poach a chicken, save the poaching water for stock. If it's not
strong enough, concentrate by reduction, or poach another chicken in
it. As the mood strikes me I add some carrots, garlic, dried onion,
etc... (But never any herbs, they get bitter with long storage and
might clash with the ultimate usage of the stock.) Maybe a little of
a good white wine now again.
Leave the fat coating on, and spoon out stock as needed.
The trick here is to be sure and bring the stock to a rolling boil
every week or two for at least 3 minutes, whether you use the stock or
not.
When the stock gets low, add a little water, little wine and poach
another chicken!
D.
------------------------------
Proprietor, Interim Books
Used & Rare Books of all sorts
http://www.hurricane.net/~fairwater/
------------------------------
Sponsor, USS Henry L. Stimson homepage
http://www.hurricane.net/~elde/655.html
------------------------------
Derek Lyons
>here's what I did:
>5lbs raw chicken bones
>8 quarts cold water
>2 cups chopped carrots
>2 cups chopped celery
>2 cups chopped yellow onions
>6 peeled garlic cloves
>2 tea salt (to season veggies)
>and a bouquet garni(6 sprigs fresh thyme,2 bay leaves, 15 peppercorns,5
>sprigs fresh parsley) Brought to boil and turned down heat & let simmer 2.5
>hrs.
*WAAAAAAAAAAY* too much water to chicken! Should probably have been
closer to 3-5 quarts for that amount of chicken. (Also, brown the
bones in the oven first....)
Derek L.
C.L. Gifford
> Hint: For a beautiful, clear, richly flavored *golden* chicken stock use only
> the unboned chicken breasts, wings, feet and skin (no dark meat or organs).
> And for heaven sake, do not stir your stock.
Sheldon, what is this about not stirring the stock? Do I have a
gap in my stock making knowledge?
Charlie (aka BSPB)
PENMART10
writes:
> was taught to crack or break all the bones in order to expose the marrow
Avian's anatomy is different from bovine's insomuch as their bones are hollow
(low weight/great strength), and they're pretty much devoid of marrow or
anything else flavorful for that matter - basically bird's bones are hollow
tubes. Hollow bones are a major contributing factor enabling birds to fly...
and in fact emulating bird bones is how engineers design super stong yet light
weight structures
There's not much flavor in skeletal bone anyway, some flavor but mostly gelatin
is derived from intramuscular connective tissue, cartilage and tendons, but
practically none from actual bone per se. Chicken flavor is mostly derived
from the animal's flesh (and to a somewhat lesser degree from fat), therefore
concocting a stock predominantly from stripped chicken carcass will yield very
little chicken flavor... mostly you'll derive a highly gelatinous mass which
instead derives it's flavor from added ingredients (veggies and seasonings),
but it certainly won't have much chicken flavor, not unless a predominent
proportion of actual chicken flesh is incorporated. There's a major difference
between 'chicken stock' and 'chicken-scrap stock'... garbage in -- garbage
out... you decide. From reading some people's responses to this subject I
highly suspect that their idea of chicken stock would result in something of so
poor a quality they'd be better off using canned chicken bouillon or cubes (and
that's more'n likely what they actually do).
PENMART10
<sa...@concentric.net> writes:
>PENMART10 wrote:
>
>> Hint: For a beautiful, clear, richly flavored *golden* chicken stock use
>only
>> the unboned chicken breasts, wings, feet and skin (no dark meat or organs).
>> And for heaven sake, do not stir your stock.
>
>Sheldon, what is this about not stirring the stock?
With stock the more agitation that occurs the cloudier the results, not only
shouldn't stock be stirred but the lowest possible heat setting to barely
maintain a very low simmer should be maintained -- does looong, slooow and
genitalia strike a familiar chord? ;)
>Do I have a gap in my stock making knowledge?
>
>Charlie
Errrm... since you asked...
abyss (noun)
[Middle English abissus, from Late Latin abyssus, from Greek abyssos, from
abyssos, adjective, bottomless, from a- + byssos depth; perhaps akin to Greek
bathys deep]
First appeared 14th Century
1 : the bottomless gulf, pit, or chaos of the old cosmogonies
2 a : an immeasurably deep gulf or great space
Peter Aitken
the bird just until the meat is done then it is fine. You get some of the
flavor in the stock and some perfectly good meat for other purposes.
Peter G. Aitken
SportKite1 <sport...@aol.comfly> wrote in message
news:19990920174456...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
SportKite1
>homemade tortellini is added.
Oh Kate, I can't agree more. Speaking of broth and brodo, when I do turkey soup
from the leftover carcass which always includes a great deal of dark meat -
after cooking, straining and clarifying the rich broth/stock, I add cheese
tortellini, shredded fresh spinach, julienned fresh basil and a dusting of
parmasan cheese on top after dishing up. Food of the Gods!
C.L. Gifford
>
> In article <37E77A79...@concentric.net>, "C.L. Gifford"
> <sa...@concentric.net> writes:
>
> >PENMART10 wrote:
> >
> >> Hint: For a beautiful, clear, richly flavored *golden* chicken stock use
> >only
> >> the unboned chicken breasts, wings, feet and skin (no dark meat or organs).
> >> And for heaven sake, do not stir your stock.
> >
> >Sheldon, what is this about not stirring the stock?
>
> With stock the more agitation that occurs the cloudier the results,
That does sound familiar now. Thanks - I had forgotten.
> not only
> shouldn't stock be stirred but the lowest possible heat setting to barely
> maintain a very low simmer should be maintained --
Right. Got that.
> does looong, slooow and
> genitalia strike a familiar chord? ;)
>
I hear bells ringing! <S>
> >Do I have a gap in my stock making knowledge?
> >
> >Charlie
>
> Errrm... since you asked...
Damn!
>
> abyss (noun)
>
> [Middle English abissus, from Late Latin abyssus, from Greek abyssos, from
> abyssos, adjective, bottomless, from a- + byssos depth; perhaps akin to Greek
> bathys deep]
>
> First appeared 14th Century
>
> 1 : the bottomless gulf, pit, or chaos of the old cosmogonies
>
> 2 a : an immeasurably deep gulf or great space
>
> Sheldon
> ````````````
You are quite right my friend. But I have the first cantilever of
my bridge over that abyss. As long as there isn't an untimely
earthquake......
Charlie
> On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line:
> "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
--
*****************************************************************
Charles Liam Gifford 32:44:58N
<>< 117:06:33W
USS PORTERFIELD DD682
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/8893
DaveM
It is my understanding that all bones have marrow. And, whether you want to call
it marrow or not, there certainly is something in there, albeit not as densely as
with beef bones. Yes, poultry bones are hollow, as most other bones also are,
but ‘hollow' is not necessarily synonymous with ‘empty'.
It makes sense to me to crack or break the bones when making any kind of stock in
order to expose even more surfaces of the carcass ingredients for increased
flavor extraction. But to be quite honest with you, this theory may be limited
to myself and the person who originally taught me to do it this way.
DaveM
PENMART10
writes:
>But to be quite honest with you, this theory may be limited
>to myself and the person who originally taught me to do it this way.
>
>DaveM
Limited anatomical knowledge, yes, correct.
Sheldon
````````````