How the prAta was murtabA'd
Geeta Bharathan
I've been pondering this question off and on, and here's what I found and
think.
As far as I could glean from Singapore/Malaysia newsgroups:
The dough contains flour, liquid to knead the flour (milk/condensed milk,
but often water), butter/ghee/oil, salt and/or sugar (variably egg, baking
powder). The butter and kneading (and egg?) make for a pastry-like effect.
The kneaded dough is rested 4-5 hours, then divided into small portions,
and stretched/rolled out in different ways.
I cannot figure out whether this is the point where the manufacture of
roti prata (=roti canai) and martabA diverge. As nearly as I can make it
out, the dough is the same in both cases.
For roti prata or roti canai (my comments):
"..stretch it and coil it (see Kerala parotta below) or fold it";
"...roll it the best you can, then use your fingers to pull all around
till a nice thin pastry is achieved . Sprinkle some of the melted butter
or ghee and pull them (EDGES?) up as it drapes then make it into a
circular shape, tucking the end under (???). Or just fold it but sprinkle
a little after the 2 sides are folded before the other 2 flaps are down to
create the layered texture.Heat pan and lightly oil or pam and fry on
med. low then pressing it down gently as it puffs up to enable all layers
to cook esp. if made into turban rolls."
(This person translates roti canai as turban bread)
These make me think of a paratha; but more specifically, what in southern
India is known as either "Ceylon parotta" or "Kerala parotta" (see Madhur
Jaffrey on this): in which the subdivided dough (which does contain egg)
is first drawn into a "rope" that is wrapped on itself to make a coiled*
circular structure that is then rolled out like a regular roti/paratha.
The flaky paratha that results is unlike any paratha I've eaten in
northern India. Madhur Jaffrey has a description of this in one of her
books.
Now for the martabA (I'm told that the final "k" is often dropped in
Malaysia, and this makes sense for my hypothesis, see below). The way the
dough is treated might depend on whether it is being manufactured at home
or by a "mamak" at a roadside stall.
At home it is often just made by rolling out the dough in the usual
fashion; the "mamak" does it with flourish, making a thin roti by
throwing it into the air, slapping it onto the griddle, placing the
stuffing, folding the roti over to enclose the stuffing, and cooking by
frying on both sides.
Which made us (Bharati and me) think of roomali roti. However, I have it
from my friend, witness of the roadside manufacture of both, roomali roti
in parAnthA wAlA gali in Delhi and martabA in Singapore, that the martabAk
dough never gets to be as thin as the roomali roti. Plus (and correct me
if I misremember, Bharati) the roomali roti is not flaky. There appears
to be some similarity in the mode of streching the dough (not unique), but
there it stops. It does not sound like the martabA is made on the upside
down tawa, but I could not tell (Trillium, did you say something about
this?). Stuffed paranthas are made differently (stuffed before the final
rolling out the dough), and kachoris (which Shankar alluded to) are
deep-fried.
I was informed, by someone of Egyptian ancestry, that martabAn (with a
nasal "n" at the end) means "container" or "container of food" in Arabic
(perhaps Nicole might elaborate on this?).
Makes perfect sense, and suggests how the prAta was martabA'd: take the
Kerala/Ceylon prAta dough, make a roti of it, and use it as a container
for the meat. Howzzat?
But what of the martabak-dosai connection? Ah... this looks to me like a
case of currification.
Madhur Jaffrey in her "Far Eastern Cookery" speaks of a "fluffy pancake
with sweet-peanut filling" that she calls "Ban Chan Kuay, martabak". Made
of the same ingredients as the roti prata--except that they are mixed into
a batter, not a dough, that is poured onto a hot griddle, rather like an
Appam (the dosai-like snack from which it was derived, according to her).
When the dough is half-cooked, butter and crushed roasted sesame seeds and
peanuts are sprinkled on the surface to make this "stuffed" pancake.
I must confess that I find myself losing faith in Madhur Jaffrey at this
point. But -- maybe this is a local application of the word martabak --
she says she got the recipe from people in Penang and Padang. But, really,
I would have expected the term to be applied to the masAla dosai, which is
truly a container-and-thing-contained. Who knows? maybe some kindly soul
from Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia will step in here?
My imagination and resources are stretched to their limits, and I wait
in anticipation.
--Geeta, avoiding writing a final exam...
Bharati Mandapati
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
<lsnipped lots of detective details on prAta, martabak, roti etc.>
>I was informed, by someone of Egyptian ancestry, that martabAn (with a
>nasal "n" at the end) means "container" or "container of food" in Arabic
>(perhaps Nicole might elaborate on this?).
>Makes perfect sense, and suggests how the prAta was martabA'd: take the
>Kerala/Ceylon prAta dough, make a roti of it, and use it as a container
>for the meat. Howzzat?
I'd decided that this was a plausible rest-stop-conclusion myself.
Looking up an Urdu dictionary for words starting with 'mar', a few
weeks ago, I found good old 'martaban' which means container. In
Delhi, people do use it mostly for 'food containers' -- things like
stoneware jars, pots with lids etc.
On the backburner was a project to find out what the etymology of the
word is, and whether it was used more generally (to capture the
general idea of 'containing').
Bharati
t r i l l i u m
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
~The dough contains flour, liquid to knead the flour (milk/condensed milk,
~but often water), butter/ghee/oil, salt and/or sugar (variably egg, baking
~powder). The butter and kneading (and egg?) make for a pastry-like effect.
~The kneaded dough is rested 4-5 hours, then divided into small portions,
~and stretched/rolled out in different ways.
I have 4 different recipes. I don't think any of them call for egg or baking
powder in the dough, but all have different combinations of liquid and they
all rest. I'll double check.
~I cannot figure out whether this is the point where the manufacture of
~roti prata (=roti canai) and martabA diverge. As nearly as I can make it
~out, the dough is the same in both cases.
Uh-oh. Bear with me. To the bf, roti canai and murtabak/martaba are
twodifferent things. Roti canai is stretched super, super thin, isn't flaky
and is usually eaten as a breakfast food, where murtabak is more a snack food.
He likes murtabak, he isn't so fond of roti canai. I've seen roti canai made
at a Malaysian restaurant in Seattle and it appears to be a light lemon color,
suggesting eggs in the dough.
~Which made us (Bharati and me) think of roomali roti. However, I have it
~from my friend, witness of the roadside manufacture of both, roomali roti
~in parAnthA wAlA gali in Delhi and martabA in Singapore, that the martabAk
~dough never gets to be as thin as the roomali roti. Plus (and correct me
~if I misremember, Bharati) the roomali roti is not flaky. There appears
~to be some similarity in the mode of streching the dough (not unique), but
~there it stops. It does not sound like the martabA is made on the upside
~down tawa, but I could not tell (Trillium, did you say something about
~this?). Stuffed paranthas are made differently (stuffed before the final
~rolling out the dough), and kachoris (which Shankar alluded to) are
~deep-fried.
What does your friend say about roti canai (chanai)? Right, the murtabak is
not made on an upside down tawa according to the bf.
~I was informed, by someone of Egyptian ancestry, that martabAn (with a
~nasal "n" at the end) means "container" or "container of food" in Arabic
~(perhaps Nicole might elaborate on this?).
~
~Makes perfect sense, and suggests how the prAta was martabA'd: take the
~Kerala/Ceylon prAta dough, make a roti of it, and use it as a container
~for the meat. Howzzat?
It definitely works for me.
~But what of the martabak-dosai connection? Ah... this looks to me like a
~case of currification.
It seems that this currification is limited in it's scope, as we have one
well-informed Malaysian testifying that they are not one and the same,
although other SEAsian people and cookbooks have implied it to me.
thanks for the clarifications about the currifications, you've outdone
yourself
regards,
trillium
Trillium Blackmer
Northwestern University Medical School
Dept. of Molec. Pharm. & Biol. Chem
Institute for Neuroscience
Bharati Mandapati
tbla...@nwu.edu (t r i l l i u m) wrote:
> ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
>~Which made us (Bharati and me) think of roomali roti. However, I have it
>~from my friend, witness of the roadside manufacture of both, roomali roti
>~in parAnthA wAlA gali in Delhi and martabA in Singapore, that the martabAk
>~dough never gets to be as thin as the roomali roti. Plus (and correct me
>~if I misremember, Bharati) the roomali roti is not flaky. There appears
>~to be some similarity in the mode of streching the dough (not unique), but
>~there it stops. It does not sound like the martabA is made on the upside
>~down tawa, but I could not tell (Trillium, did you say something about
>~this?). Stuffed paranthas are made differently (stuffed before the final
>~rolling out the dough), and kachoris (which Shankar alluded to) are
>~deep-fried.
>What does your friend say about roti canai (chanai)? Right, the murtabak is
>not made on an upside down tawa according to the bf.
Oh, I forgot to mention something.
I was nursing the mother-of-all-flus recently, and when my head/brain
gave out, was held hostage by PBS. Which is how I came to be watching
the Highly Insufferable Yan (can cook?) wandering about Malaysia. I
turned off the sound and was staring ahead with glazed eyes, but I
snapped to when I saw some flat bread action. The camera was zooming
in on some snappy martabak making -- on a large, rectangular, flat
griddle (like the ones restaurants use to make dosas). The interesting
thing was that the vendor was making some of them double layered. One
roti, some fillings, then another roti on top of that and more
fillings. The whole thing was then folded up together and wrapped in
banana leaves to take away.
Maybe he did show roti chanai and others. I, regrettably, fell asleep
at this point.
Bharati
Geeta Bharathan
: ~I cannot figure out whether this is the point where the manufacture of
: ~roti prata (=roti canai) and martabA diverge. As nearly as I can make it
: ~out, the dough is the same in both cases.
: Uh-oh. Bear with me. To the bf, roti canai and murtabak/martaba are
: two different things. Roti canai is stretched super, super thin, isn't
: flaky
: What does your friend say about roti canai (chanai)?
OK. But can you clarify whether roti canai and roti prata are the same
thing? And does your statement mean that martabak IS flaky?
(Unfortunately I cannot ask my friend, who is being a tourist somewhere in
Europe on her way back to India. She happened to be in the US at the time
the martabak question was brewing in my mind.)
I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
The Kerala parotta (my proposed closest relative to the roti prata) is not
super flaky. Just more so than a regular parantha of northern India.
I imagine the flakiness has a lot to do with the method of rolling out the
dough; also I must say that the flour used for the Kerala parotta is white
(maida), not the whole-meal flour (AttA) used in the "usual" parantha. The
recipes I got from the Singapore/malaysian sources seem similar.
Also, I must add the cultural/sociological bits that suggested the
connection to me. The Kerala/Ceylon parotta, which I know mainly from
Tamil Nadu, is typically found in restaurants run by muslims. This is
particularly obvious when you visit the coastal parts of southern Tamil
Nadu (e.g. Rameswaram). Given that a great deal of the trading with S.E.
Asia is done by muslim sea-faring traders, and that the roti stalls in
Malaysia (Singapore?) are described as being run by "mamaks" (which I
seem to remember refers to stalls run by muslims)...well maybe I jumped
several steps to a conclusion.
(And, while I'm at it, what is the connection with the old, and now
resurrected, word for Madras -- Chennai?...no, I'm not saying anything
here, except that I'd love to have heard the "Colonel" on this one)
Anyway, I like my hypothesis, and would love to hear arguments against it.
--Geeta, back to grading term papers
t r i l l i u m
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
~
~OK. But can you clarify whether roti canai and roti prata are the same
~thing? And does your statement mean that martabak IS flaky?
Ok, the flakier roti prata is what the bf thinks of as roti prata. This
makes sense to me, as many ethnic Indian Singaporeans came from Kerala. The
roti canai is a different animal, not murtabak, not parata. When pressed on
the flakiness of murtabak, he waffles...flakier than roti canai, not as flaky
as roti prata. But, I say, all the recipes show pretty flaky looking pictures
to me. Well, he says, their not *that* flaky, now a curry puff is flaky
(no, I don't know how flaky a curry puff is).
~I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
~with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
Yes, me too. I suggest a grant writing session and a trip.
~I imagine the flakiness has a lot to do with the method of rolling out the
~dough; also I must say that the flour used for the Kerala parotta is white
~(maida), not the whole-meal flour (AttA) used in the "usual" parantha. The
~recipes I got from the Singapore/malaysian sources seem similar.
Yes. The look on his face when he ordered parata in a Northern Indian
restaurant here was comical. It was a non-flaky whole meal roti. I thought
it was delicious, he thought it wasn't roti prata. He had a long talk with
the woman who was cooking (she was Pakistani) about the roti and she said she
had heard of the kind he was describing, but didn't make it.
~Malaysia (Singapore?) are described as being run by "mamaks" (which I
~seem to remember refers to stalls run by muslims)...well maybe I jumped
~several steps to a conclusion.
Maybe...but it's a great working hypothesis. In Singapore they're run by
"mamaks" as well, and the best ones are found outside of mosques.
~(And, while I'm at it, what is the connection with the old, and now
~resurrected, word for Madras -- Chennai?...no, I'm not saying anything
~here, except that I'd love to have heard the "Colonel" on this one)
Too bad he's gone.
~Anyway, I like my hypothesis, and would love to hear arguments against it.
I'm surprised no one has yet obliged you.
regards,
trillium
Bharati Mandapati
>~OK. But can you clarify whether roti canai and roti prata are the same
>~thing? And does your statement mean that martabak IS flaky?
>Ok, the flakier roti prata is what the bf thinks of as roti prata. This
>makes sense to me, as many ethnic Indian Singaporeans came from Kerala. The
>roti canai is a different animal, not murtabak, not parata. When pressed on
>the flakiness of murtabak, he waffles...flakier than roti canai, not as flaky
>as roti prata. But, I say, all the recipes show pretty flaky looking pictures
>to me. Well, he says, their not *that* flaky, now a curry puff is flaky
>(no, I don't know how flaky a curry puff is).
A curry puff is made with puff pastry -- so that is really really
flaky. None of these flat breads is in that league.
>~The Kerala parotta (my proposed closest relative to the roti prata) is not
>~super flaky. Just more so than a regular parantha of northern India.
>~I imagine the flakiness has a lot to do with the method of rolling out the
>~dough; also I must say that the flour used for the Kerala parotta is white
>~(maida), not the whole-meal flour (AttA) used in the "usual" parantha. The
>~recipes I got from the Singapore/malaysian sources seem similar.
I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
fisherman's net, parota). Meena Kaimal has a picture in her book: if a
regular parantha has a max of 3 layers/flakes in any cross-section,
hers appears to have atleast 5, if not more.
[BTW, possibly irrelevant point -- Gujaratis make something called
Satpada parantha which has seven layers]
>~I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
>~with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
>Yes, me too. I suggest a grant writing session and a trip.
Oh, the stuff of dreams! Now I wish I was paying more attention to
that Yan show.
Earlier Geeta wrote:
>Also, I must add the cultural/sociological bits that suggested the
>connection to me. The Kerala/Ceylon parotta, which I know mainly from
>Tamil Nadu, is typically found in restaurants run by muslims. This is
>particularly obvious when you visit the coastal parts of southern Tamil
>Nadu (e.g. Rameswaram). Given that a great deal of the trading with S.E.
>Asia is done by muslim sea-faring traders, and that the roti stalls in
>Malaysia (Singapore?) are described as being run by "mamaks" (which I
>seem to remember refers to stalls run by muslims)...well maybe I jumped
>several steps to a conclusion.
>(And, while I'm at it, what is the connection with the old, and now
>resurrected, word for Madras -- Chennai?...no, I'm not saying anything
>here, except that I'd love to have heard the "Colonel" on this one)
Oh, I like this one! Chennai possibly = chanai?! Geeta, you are on a
roll.
In this Yan show I saw, the guy making the murtabak was even wearing a
very Tamil looking checked 'mundu' (a sarong like thing).
I had put this whole murtabak thing on a mental backburner, but now
you two have jumpstarted my interest again. Maybe you should write
this up and wangle a session at the next Oxford Food Symposium.
I don't have a copy of Alford & Duguid's Flatbread &Flavors, but they
do wander much of the globe. Do they have a murtabak recipe, photo?
Bharati
Geeta Bharathan
: ~OK. But can you clarify whether roti canai and roti prata are the same
: ~thing? And does your statement mean that martabak IS flaky?
: Ok, the flakier roti prata is what the bf thinks of as roti prata. ...
: roti canai is a different animal, not murtabak, not parata. When pressed on
: the flakiness of murtabak, he waffles...flakier than roti canai, not as flaky
: as roti prata.
So... shall we say then that the dough is likely to be the same, and that
flakiness is a factor of the number of layers in the roti? Several in roti
prata, fewer in martabak, and none in roti canai (the last might be the
closest to roomali roti then)?
: ~I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
: ~with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
: Yes, me too. I suggest a grant writing session and a trip.
Yes, indeed. I need at least ten more lives...
: Yes. The look on his face when he ordered parata in a Northern Indian
: restaurant here was comical. It was a non-flaky whole meal roti. I thought
: it was delicious, he thought it wasn't roti prata.
Which exactly mirrors my experience when I moved to Chennai (then Madras),
carrying my northern Indian acclimation and sensibility. I go into a
restaurant (yes, one of those muslim-run ones), order a parantha -- and
the waiter comes up with this white thing that comes apart in coiled
flakes. Great in its own way, but not my concept of parantha.
: ~Malaysia (Singapore?) are described as being run by "mamaks" (which I
: ~seem to remember refers to stalls run by muslims)...well maybe I jumped
: ~several steps to a conclusion.
: Maybe...but it's a great working hypothesis. In Singapore they're run by
: "mamaks" as well, and the best ones are found outside of mosques.
:
: ~Anyway, I like my hypothesis, and would love to hear arguments against it.
: I'm surprised no one has yet obliged you.
Where's Lin Nah, anyway?
--Geeta
Geeta Bharathan
Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
: >~The Kerala parotta (my proposed closest relative to the roti prata) is not
: >~super flaky. Just more so than a regular parantha of northern India.
: I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
: fisherman's net, parota). Meena Kaimal has a picture in her book: if a
: regular parantha has a max of 3 layers/flakes in any cross-section,
: hers appears to have atleast 5, if not more.
I do not know. (The name is interesting, though. To add to the roti
confusion, it brings to mind "roti jala" that was discussed some time ago.
I believe Lin established that the dough is fluid and "poured" onto the
griddle in several thin streams, making for the "jala" or net-like effect,
rather than being rolled out like a roti/parantha. Again, where is Lin?)
: [BTW, possibly irrelevant point -- Gujaratis make something called
: Satpada parantha which has seven layers]
I looked at "Prashad" by Inder Singh Kalra and Pradeep Das Gupta (Allied
publishers, New Delhi etc). Their section on rotis is quite
interesting (including Batti, made during wars in the Rajasthan deserts by
burying semi-cooked balls of dough in the sand, marking the locations, and
getting at them if supply lines were cut off...but I digress).
They talk of "varqi paratha" ("varq" meaning flakes), and "jalebi"
paratha. The first is several layers of dough cut into circles and
shallow-fried on a griddle. For the jalebi paratha a radial cut is
made in the usual disc, the disc then rolled on itself to make a
multi-layered cone, the cone stood up on its base, and the whole thing
compressed by spiralling it down on itself. This compressed dough is now
rolled out again --> Kerala paratha of a different kind.
These modes of making paranthas are ascribed to the Nawabs of Awadh.
Go figure, as they say.
: >(And, while I'm at it, what is the connection with the old, and now
: >resurrected, word for Madras -- Chennai?...no, I'm not saying anything
: >here, except that I'd love to have heard the "Colonel" on this one)
: Oh, I like this one! Chennai possibly = chanai?! Geeta, you are on a
: roll.
: In this Yan show I saw, the guy making the murtabak was even wearing a
: very Tamil looking checked 'mundu' (a sarong like thing).
That is the lungi ("u" as in put). Again, the lungi has a clear muslim
origin/connection in both Kerala and Tamil Nadu.
--Geeta, who really has to finish that grading today.
t r i l l i u m
bman...@ucla.edu (Bharati Mandapati) wrote:
~
~tbla...@nwu.edu (t r i l l i u m) wrote:
~>to me. Well, he says, their not *that* flaky, now a curry puff is flaky
~>(no, I don't know how flaky a curry puff is).
~A curry puff is made with puff pastry -- so that is really really
~flaky. None of these flat breads is in that league.
One would think, wouldn't one? But, while there are those kind, that's not
the kind he's talking about. I've abandoned the whole curry puff thing, it
got too frustrating (I did find recipes where you make an inner skin and an
outer skin for these guys).
~>~I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
~>~with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
~>Yes, me too. I suggest a grant writing session and a trip.
~Oh, the stuff of dreams! Now I wish I was paying more attention to
~that Yan show.
Me too. Maybe it will rerun. But it would be a great sacrifice to have to
sit through a whole 30 minutes of Yan's yakking. He drives me nuts.
According to friends whose father is friendly with Yan, the whole accent thing
is a put on.
~I had put this whole murtabak thing on a mental backburner, but now
~you two have jumpstarted my interest again. Maybe you should write
~this up and wangle a session at the next Oxford Food Symposium.
~
~I don't have a copy of Alford & Duguid's Flatbread &Flavors, but they
~do wander much of the globe. Do they have a murtabak recipe, photo?
They have a murtabak recipe, but no photo. Mrs. Leong's Singaporean cookbook
has a recipe and a picture(?) and a Malaysian cookbook I have does as well.
Perhaps it's time for me to post one or two of these.
regards,
trillium
Bharati Mandapati
Addressing a few digressions that
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) brought up:
>Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
>: tbla...@nwu.edu (t r i l l i u m) wrote:
>: > ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
>: >~The Kerala parotta (my proposed closest relative to the roti prata) is not
>: >~super flaky. Just more so than a regular parantha of northern India.
>: I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
>: fisherman's net, parota). Meena Kaimal has a picture in her book: if a
>: regular parantha has a max of 3 layers/flakes in any cross-section,
>: hers appears to have atleast 5, if not more.
>I do not know. (The name is interesting, though. To add to the roti
>confusion, it brings to mind "roti jala" that was discussed some time ago.
>I believe Lin established that the dough is fluid and "poured" onto the
>griddle in several thin streams, making for the "jala" or net-like effect,
>rather than being rolled out like a roti/parantha. Again, where is Lin?)
I finally figured out what what these are -- found a recipe in Alford
and Duguid. Geeta, imagine pouring a liquid batter into a murukku
maker (for those who have never seen one, imagine a large cookie press
fitted with a die/mould that has holes all over its surface) and then
swirling it around above a griddle. Thats how lacy that is. Not vecchu
flaky.
What *was* I doing on my multiple visits to Malaysia? Stuffed myself
silly with all sorts of other things, but missed these entirely.
>: [BTW, possibly irrelevant point -- Gujaratis make something called
>: Satpada parantha which has seven layers]
>I looked at "Prashad" by Inder Singh Kalra and Pradeep Das Gupta (Allied
>publishers, New Delhi etc). Their section on rotis is quite
>interesting (including Batti, made during wars in the Rajasthan deserts by
>burying semi-cooked balls of dough in the sand, marking the locations, and
>getting at them if supply lines were cut off...but I digress).
Oh, some of them can really be used as weapons of war. I've had a
few encounters with them. The first, nearly wrenched off some of my
(then) milk teeth. Our neighbours were Rajasthani and had set about to
make these after a gap of many years and they turned out to be like
reinforced concrete.
Later, I was on a (months) long hike along the banks of the Narmada,
and met them again in Madhya Pradesh. We were invited to eat at the
village temple. A simple meal -- battis, a fiery dal, a savory-sweet
preparation made with ripe mangoes, and a small dish of freshly made
ghee. These battis were really good -- crisp on the outside like the
crust on good bread, and soft, almost puffy inside. You break them
apart, dip them in a bit of ghee and dunk them in the dal or the mango
shak.
Bharati
Bharati Mandapati
tbla...@nwu.edu (t r i l l i u m) wrote:
>bman...@ucla.edu (Bharati Mandapati) wrote:
>~tbla...@nwu.edu (t r i l l i u m) wrote:
>~>to me. Well, he says, their not *that* flaky, now a curry puff is flaky
>~>(no, I don't know how flaky a curry puff is).
>~A curry puff is made with puff pastry -- so that is really really
>~flaky. None of these flat breads is in that league.
>One would think, wouldn't one? But, while there are those kind, that's not
>the kind he's talking about. I've abandoned the whole curry puff thing, it
>got too frustrating (I did find recipes where you make an inner skin and an
>outer skin for these guys).
Tum ti tum. Another can of worms. Maybe like a samosa dough -- a
proper samosa that is.
>~>~I do not know how flaky these rotis get (dammit I need to get acquainted
>~>~with these critters whose history I am trying understand.)
>~>Yes, me too. I suggest a grant writing session and a trip.
>~Oh, the stuff of dreams! Now I wish I was paying more attention to
>~that Yan show.
>Me too. Maybe it will rerun. But it would be a great sacrifice to have to
>sit through a whole 30 minutes of Yan's yakking. He drives me nuts.
>According to friends whose father is friendly with Yan, the whole accent thing
>is a put on.
I wonder whose brilliant strategy that was.
What TV needs is a Chinese avatar who is equal parts David
Attenborough-Michael Wood: curious about food, culture, plants, trade,
history, and a bang up chef too (maybe A.Zee). I'm so interested in
Chinese culture, not to mention food, that my heart bleeds every time
I see Yan.
>They have a murtabak recipe, but no photo. Mrs. Leong's Singaporean cookbook
>has a recipe and a picture(?) and a Malaysian cookbook I have does as well.
>Perhaps it's time for me to post one or two of these.
Oh, do, please.
Bharati
Kok-Leong Chin
Perhaps you'd settle for a recipe from me. It's probably not authentic
but some recipes I've followed have been good.
Sidenote: "mamaks (pl)" are what Malaysians call Muslim Indian vendors.
Recipe from "The Southeast Asia Cookbook"
(Section on Malaysia. Didn't jot down author, sorry. Minor edits.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIAN LAMB-FILLED PASTRIES
(Murtaba)
[ One of my many taste delights while in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore is
a visit to the Indian "mamak roti" man, who makes quick fried envelopes
of very thin dough, stuffed with savory meat and spices. Murtaba are
very popular as snacks to be eaten in the open air; you can buy them
from market stalls or street-side vendors who will make them especially
for you, absolutely fresh and with ingredients to suit your taste.
With great skill and ease, he takes a small well-oiled ball of dough,
flings it into the air tossing and stretching it in every direction until
he has a paper-thin, smooth sheet of dough -- all in less than a minute!
He then places the dough on a large, heated, flat metal griddle, fills it
with a delectable curry filling, folds it into a big square and cooks it
until both sides are crispy and golden brown.
You may not be able to put on such a display at home, but it is
possible to obtain the required thinness of dough by soaking the balls of
well-kneaded dough in oil for an hour or more and then spreading them
with your hands as thinly as possible. The dough might be a little thicker
on the edgges than in the center, which is all right. If you do not have a
large kitchen griddle, the Murtaba may be made smaller to fit your pan.
They will taste equally as good.
They are wonderful as an accompaniment with drinks, with a meal, or as
a snack at any time of day. ]
3 cups all-purpose flour
1 tsp salt
1 tsp ghee or oil
1 cup lukewarm water
3/4 cup oil, approximately
FILLING:
2 tbsp oil or ghee
2 large onions, minced
2 garlic cloves, chopped
2 tbsp finely minced ginger
2 tsp turmeric powder
1.5 tsp red powder
2 lbs ground lamb
3 tsp garam masala
4 tbsp finely chopped fresh coriander leaves
4-6 fresh red chiles, seeds removed, finely sliced
3 eggs, beaten
salt and pepper to taste
Dough Preperation:
Put the flour and salt in a large bowl and knead in ghee or oil. Make a
well in the center and pour in all of the water at once. Mix to a fairly
soft dough and knead for 10 minutes or longer until dough becomes elastic
and springs back. Divide the dough into 10 or 12 balls of equal size and
put them in a small bowl containing 1/2 cup oil. Add more oil if the dough
is not covered. Let rest for 1 hour.
Filling Preperation:
Heat 2 tablespoons ghee or oil in a medium frying pan. Add the onion and
stir-fry until the onion is golden brown. Add the turmeric and red pepper
powder and stir. Add the lamb, and stir fry, breaking up any large pieces,
until the meat is no longer pink and is tender and quite dry. Drain off any
excess oil. Do not allow the meat to become brown and crunchy. Add the
"garam masala," coriander, chiles, and eggs. Season to taste with salt and
pepper. Stir. Remove from the heat and keep warm.
Cooking:
Remove the dough from the bowl and knead the dough ball gently. Spread
a little oil from the bowl on a smooth surgace. Flatten the ball with your
hand. Gently press with your fingers, spreading the dough out into a very
thin crepe (as thin as possible without tearing the dough). It should be
similar to strudel pastry. Place 3 to 4 tablespoons of the filling in the
center of the dough. Fold over the sides of the crepe in an envelope
fashion, completely enclosing the filling. Preheat a large griddle. Add oil
to cover the botton of the pan. Fry for 1 to 2 minutes, or until golden
brown and crispy. Turn over and cook the other side, adding a little more
ghee or oil on the griddle if necessary. Cook until crisp and golden. Serve
hot or at room temperature.
YIELD: 10 to 12 Murtaba.
TIPS: Filo dough, purchased in American grocery stores, may be used in place
of the homemade dough. Your Murtaba will not have the wonderful texture of
the homemade dough, but you will have an easilt prepared, tasty Murtaba.
If fresh chiles are unavailable, substitute dried chiles. Soak in warm
water for 5 minutes to soften. Remove seeds, chop.
ADVANCE PREPERATION: Prepare the filling 1 to 2 days ahead. Allow it to come
to room temperature before filling the dough. The dough may be kneaded and
placed in the oil several hours in advance. The Murtaba may be cooked and
frozen for 1 month. Reheat in a 425 F oven for approximately 5 minutes or
until heated throughout. Some of the original crispness will be lost, but
they will still be wonderful.
Inspired by a recipe from Jean Marc LaForce, head of food and beverage, Pan
Pacific Hotel, Juala [sic] Lumpur.
--
| Kok-Leong | k o k l e o n g @ i a s t a t e . e d u |
| Chin | http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kokleong/ |
| Spammers read: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kokleong/spamoff.html |
Geeta Bharathan
Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
: Addressing a few digressions that
: >Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
: >: I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
: >: fisherman's net, parota).
By the way, what language is vecchu? I thought Malayalam for net is "vala"
[Of making roti jala]
: I finally figured out what what these are -- found a recipe in Alford
: and Duguid. Geeta, imagine pouring a liquid batter into a murukku
: maker (for those who have never seen one, imagine a large cookie press
: fitted with a die/mould that has holes all over its surface) and then
: swirling it around above a griddle. Thats how lacy that is.
Aha -- it is really like a shallow-fried idiAppam, then. Hmmm.
--Geeta, cogitating
Geeta Bharathan
Kok-Leong Chin (kokl...@idontwantyourspam.iastate.edu) wrote:
: Perhaps you'd settle for a recipe from me. It's probably not authentic
: but some recipes I've followed have been good.
Wait, wait! you cannot get away so easily!
What is the difference between roti canai and roti prata?
Where does appam fit in this scheme of things? Is roti jala like an
idiAppam?
How come wheat flour is used so much in a region that grows mainly rice?
Where did the wheat come from historically?
How flaky is flaky?
etc
[snipped recipe for martabak]
: TIPS: Filo dough, purchased in American grocery stores, may be used in place
^^^^^^^^^^
: of the homemade dough. Your Murtaba will not have the wonderful texture of
: the homemade dough, but you will have an easilt prepared, tasty Murtaba.
Thanks, that is the word I was looking for earlier...
--Geeta
Bob Y.
Geeta Bharathan wrote:
>
> Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
> : Addressing a few digressions that
> : ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) brought up:
>
> : >Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
>
> : >: I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
> : >: fisherman's net, parota).
>
> By the way, what language is vecchu? I thought Malayalam for net is "vala"
>
--
Bob Y.
Minimum System Reliability: It worked once.
Kelvin Throop III, The Management Dictionary
Bharati Mandapati
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
>Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
>: Addressing a few digressions that
>: ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) brought up:
>: >Bharati Mandapati (bman...@ucla.edu) wrote:
>: >: I'm guessing you are referring to Vechhu Parota (or net, as in
>: >: fisherman's net, parota).
>By the way, what language is vecchu? I thought Malayalam for net is "vala"
Malayalam has some words that are straight from Sanskrit, like vala,
but I think vecchu is Malayalam too. I will check this out.
>[Of making roti jala]
>: I finally figured out what what these are -- found a recipe in Alford
>: and Duguid. Geeta, imagine pouring a liquid batter into a murukku
>: maker (for those who have never seen one, imagine a large cookie press
>: fitted with a die/mould that has holes all over its surface) and then
>: swirling it around above a griddle. Thats how lacy that is.
>Aha -- it is really like a shallow-fried idiAppam, then. Hmmm.
No, no. IdiAppams look like noodles, right? Roti jala batter is like
dosa or pancake batter, so when it pours out of the holes it doesn't
come out like a rope and it spreads when it hits the griddle. So you
get the effect of cutwork lace. Also, imagine holes that are bigger
than those used to make IdiAppams. Unlike IdiAppams, murukkus, or sev
you don't need to use any pressure to extrude the batter, it pours out
easily.
BTW, how close are you to a good bookstore? There are pictures of roti
chanai and murtabak in Carol Selvah Raja's Makan-La.....something,
something Malaysian cooking. Maybe also in the Chris Yeo & ?,
Singapore cookbook.
Bharati
Kok-Leong Chin
According to Geeta Bharathan <ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu>:
> What is the difference between roti canai and roti prata?
No difference. In fact we introduce it to non-Malaysians as
roti prata first then as roti canai.
> Where does appam fit in this scheme of things? Is roti jala like an
> idiAppam?
I posted an appam recipe earlier in another thread -- it's made with
ground up rice. Roti jala is, as far as I know, of Malaysian origin
and the best description I can come up with is crepes with batter
dripped through holes to create a net-like appearance.
> How come wheat flour is used so much in a region that grows mainly rice?
> Where did the wheat come from historically?
I'm guessing trade. Wheat noodles are popular in southern China too.
> How flaky is flaky?
If you're talking about murtabak, I'd say not pastry flaky but more
on the layered and chewy side but with a crispy crust.
TJ
Bharati Mandapati wrote:
> I don't have a copy of Alford & Duguid's Flatbread &Flavors, but they
>
They have a photo of one being 'flipped'.
they describe them as a 'bread of Indian origin now eaten in much of SE
Asia' It is 'flung into the air to make it paperthin and transparent' by
holding one end of the dough and flinging the other end with with a
flick of the wrist. It is then, according to A&D, oiled and folded into
a square and then fried on a hot griddle...stuffed with meat for a snack
in Malaysia or slathered with sweetened condensed milk and rolled up in
Thailand.
2 Cups hard white flour
1/2 teas salt
2/4- 1 cup hot water
peanut oil for coating and frying
The method involves patting out to 6", rolling pinning it to 12" and
then holding down one edge and sretching it by hand or by flinging.
I keep finding limitations with this book....any better ones out there?
tj
Victor Sack
I found the following two recipes on the Net, so don't flame me for the
hideous misspellings and typos - you'll find enough of my own elsewhere.
(I guess somebody scanned in the first recipe and forgot to proofread
it.)
From: <http://www.sintercom.org/makan/murtabak.html>
Source : Traditional Malaysian cuisine
Murtabak
Anyone who has seen murtaba being. made will find it almost impossible
to believe that it can be made at home as the "mamak roti" men wbo have
spent a lifetime making these parchment thin rotis achieve this by
flinging a handful of dough in ever-wldening eurves.
An egg-sized lump becomes a large, smooth sheet in about the spade of a
minute. lt is then cooked on a griddle and filled with savoury meat and
~oned beaten egg.
At home, you may not he able to put on such a spectacular display but it
is possible to get the required thinness by soaking the halls of
wellkneaded dough in oll for an hour or more and then spreading them
with the hands much as though you were smoothing down a bed sheet.
Work on a smooth surface, then carry the thin pastry to the hot griddle
over a rolling pin as fingers may easily make holes. The edges will be
somewhat thieker than the eentre but this does not matter.
The problem encountered in a domestie kitehen is getting a griddle large
enough to cook murtaba on but there's no law that murtaba must be of a
speelfie size and smaller ones taste just as well.
lngredients:
serves 4 - 6
3 cups plein white fleur
1 tsp salt
1 tbsp ghee
1 cup lukewarm water
1/2 cup oil
For the filling:
500 gms minced meat
2 tbsps ghee
1 lange red onion - sliced fine
2 cloves garlic - crushed
1/2 tsp fresh gingen - grated
1 tsp turmeric powder
1 tsp garam masala
1 1/2 tsps salt
2 tbsps fresh coriander leaves - finely chopped
1 res red chilli - finely sric
2 eggs - beaten
1 onion - finely sliced
Salt and pepper
Method:
For the roti:
1. Place the flour and salt in a large bowl and rub in the ghee.
2. Add the water and mix to a fairly soft dough.
3. Knead the dough for ten minutes or longer.
4. Divide the dough into equal-slzed balls and place them in a small
bowl containing the oil.
5. Leave for at least an hour.
To make the filling:
1. Heat the ghee and fry the onion until it is soft.
2. Add the garlie and fresh ginger and continue to fry until the onion
is golden brown.
3. Add the turmerie and chilli powder and stir for a few seconds.
4. Put in the meat and carry on frying, stirring constantly, until it
is well-emked.
To cook the rnurtaba:
1. Season the beaten eggs with salt and pepper and set aside in a
small bowl.
2. On a smooth surface, spread a little oil from the bowl and flatten
one of the dough balls with a rolling pin.
3. Gently press with the fingers, spreiding the dough until it is
almost as thin as strudel pastry.
4. Heat the griddle and grease it lightly with ghee.
5. Drape the roti over a rolling pin and transfer it on to the
griddle.
6. It will cook very quiekly so spoon on some beaten egg and spread it
over the middle portion of the roti with the underside of the
spoon.
7. Sprinkle some meat over and just before folding, add a few slices
of onion.
8. Fold over the sides of the roti, in an envelopelike fashion to
enelose the fl lling completely.
9. Turn it over and cook the other side, spreading a little more ghee
or oil on the griddle before putting it down.
10. Cook until erisp and golden on both sides.
11. Serve hot either on its own or with a bowl of eurry gravy or dhall.
Source - Traditional Malaysian Cuisine
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
<http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/athena/user/w/s/wslee/MOSAIC/RECIPES/murtab
ak.txt>
Murtabak (Meat Crepes)
Ingredients
Ghee (or substitute with cooking oil)
4 Eggs
1 lb plain flour ]
3/4 teaspoon fine salt ]
1/2 teaspoon pepper ] = A
1/4 teaspoon baking powder ]
1. Mix [A] together into a bowl with 12 fl oz of water.
Kneed into a smooth dough.
Cover bowl and leave dough overnight.
2. Divide dough into 4 equal portions.
Roll out thinly on an oiled marble top
(or glass cutting board).
Spread liberally with ghee.
Fold and shape into balls.
Cover dough with a damp cloth.
Set aside for 1/2 hour.
3. Roll out each dough picee into a thin rectangle.
Place filling evenly in centre of dough.
Pat lightly beaten egg over meat. Wrap dough
over meat to form a square.
Fry in hot ghee till brown on both sides.
Serve hot.
The Filling :
20 oz minced mutton ]
1/4 teaspoon turmeric powder ] = B
1/2 teaspoon salt ]
1/4 teaspoon salt ]
1/4 teaspoon turmeric powder ] = C
20 oz onions (diced) ]
20 cardamoms, seeded ]
2 heaped tablespoons roasted ]
coriander seeds ] = D
l level tablespoon aniseed ]
1. Fry [B] in a little oil. Set aside for later.
Fry [C] in 2 tablespoons oil for 2 minutes.
Mix in [B] and [D] season to taste.
-------------------------------------------------------------
t r i l l i u m
ge...@life.cc.sunysb.edu (Geeta Bharathan) wrote:
>What is the difference between roti canai and roti prata?
I think to some people, there isn't any, but I think that to the people that
do differentiate between the two, roti canai has egg in the dough, and isn't
supposed to be flakey, and is made from white flour. Roti prata doesn't have
egg in the dough and is supposed to be flakey, and can be made with either
white or whole meal flour. Murtaba is usually made out of dough that doesn't
have egg in it, but can, and is made with white flour. Besides the egg, the
differences, as Geeta said before, seem to be in the way they are
rolled/flipped out before frying. The murtaba should be so thin as to be
transparant. The parata should have many layers and be flakey. The canai,
ok, here is where there is a lot a variance...I've read recipes and seen pics
that show a pretty basic, circular, thick roti. I've eaten roti canai in
Malaysian restaurants that was flipped until very, very thin and big (over 1
foot square in diameter) which made me think of roomali <sp?> that Bharati
described.
I've typed out the recipes for all three of these breads from "Traditional
Malaysian Cuisine" put out by Berita Publishin Sdn. Bhd. Balai Berita, 31,
Jalan Riong, 59100 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. ISBN: 967-969-139-X. I've
included the discussion of the recipes in a blatent disregard for copyright,
but encourage the purchase of this book if one enjoys SE Asian food. I don't
think it's available in the US.
Victor has posted the murtaba recipe he found that is from this book. In
going to go ahead and keep it in my post in for comparative reasons.
Roti Canai
Ingredients:
600 g flour
1 c warm water
1 tsp. salt, mixed into the water
3 Tbs. ghee
1 egg
sugar to taste
Method:
1. Mix together flour, water, sugar and egg. Knead until a soft dough is
formed.
2. Form into small balls and keep overnight.
3. When you are ready to make the roti canai, spread the ghee on the balls
and flatten.
4. Heat an iron griddle and fry the rotis individually until cooked.
5. Serve hot with curry or dhall.
Murtaba
Anyone who has seen murtaba being made will find it almost impossible to
believe that it can be made at home as the "mamak roti" men who have spent a
lifetime making these parchment thin rotis achieve this by flinging a handful
of dough in ever-widening curves.
An egg-sized lump becomes a large, smooth sheet in about the space of a
minute. It is then cooked on a griddle and filled with savoury meat and
seasoned beaten egg.
At home, you may not be able to put on such a spectacular display, but it is
possible to get the required thinness by soaking the balls of well-kneaded
dough in oil for an hour or more and then spreading them with the hands much
as though you were smoothing down a bed sheet.
Work on a smooth surface, then carry the thin pastry to the hot griddle over a
rolling pin as fingers may easily make hoes. The edges will be somewhat
thicker than the centre but this does not matter.
The problem encountered in a domestic kitchen is getting a griddle large
enough to cook murtaba on but there’s no law that murtaba must be of a
specific size and smaller ones taste just as well.
Ingredients
2 cups plain white flour
1 tsp. salt
1 Tbs. ghee
1 cup lukewarm water
½ c oil
For the filling:
500 g minced meat
2 Tsp. ghee
1 large red onion-sliced fine
2 cloves garlic - crushed
½ tsp. fresh ginger - grated
1 tsp. tumeric powder
1 tsp. garam masala
1 ½ tsp. salt
2 Tbs. fresh coriander leaves - finely chopped
1 fresh red chilli - finely sliced
2 eggs- beaten
Salt and pepper
1 onion - sliced
Method:
For the roti:
1. Place the flour and salt in a large bowl and rub in the ghee.
2. Add the water and mix to a fairly soft dough.
3. Knead the dough for ten minutes or longer.
4. Divide the dough into equal-sized balls and place them in a small bowl
containing the oil.
5. Leave for at least 1 hour.
To make the filling:
1. Heat the ghee and fry the onion until it is soft.
2. Add the garlic and fresh ginger and continue to fry until the onion is
golden brown.
3. Add the tumeric and chilli powder and sit for a few seconds.
4. Put in the meat and carry on frying, stirring constantly, until it is
well-cooked.
To cook the murtaba:
1. Season the beaten eggs with salt and pepper and set aside in a small bowl.
2. On a smooth surface, spread a little oil from the bowl and flatten one of
the dough balls with a rolling pin.
3. Gently press with the finger, spreading the dough until it is almost as
thin as strudel pastry.
4. Heat the griddle and grease it lightly with ghee.
5. Drape the roti over a rolling pin and transfer it on to the griddle.
6. It will cook very quickly so spoon on some beaten egg and spread it over
the middle portion of the roti with the underside of the spoon.
7. Sprinkle some meat over and just before folding, add a few slices of
onion.
8. Fold over the sides of the roti, in an envelope-like fashion to enclose
the filling completely.
9. Turn it over and cook the other side, spreading a little more ghee or oil
on the griddle before putting it down.
10. Cook until crisp and golden on both sides.
11. Serve hot either on its own or with a bowl of curry gravy or dhall.
Paratha
This is probably the most popular of Indian breads - rich, layered, flaky and
deliciously flavoured with ghee, it makes up a complete meal when served with
curry or dhall but may also be eaten as an in-between snack with butter and
sugar.
The secret behind the perfect paratha lies in the rolling and folding
technique in order to achieve the light, layered effect.
Ingredients:
225 g wholemeal flour
225 g plain flour
200 g ghee
1 ½ tsp. salt
220 ml lukewarm water
Ghee for cooking.
Method:
1. In a large mixing bowl, put in the wholemeal flour, plain flour, salt and
a knob of the ghee.
2. Add a little water at a time and knead to form a soft dough which is wet
to the touch.
3. Turn out onto a lightly floured board and knead for ten minutes or longer.
4. Put the dough back into the mixing bowl, cover with a tea towel and set
aside for at least an hour.
5. Turn the dough out again on the board and divide into 12 portions.
6. Roll each portion into a ball.
7. Melt the ghee over a low heat and put it in a bowl.
8. Knead lightly and then roll each ball of dough as thinly as possible into
a circular shape.
9. Dip a small brush in the melted ghee and brush each round lightly.
10 With a knife, make a cut from the centre of each circle to the outer edge.
11. Starting at the cut edge, roll the dough tightly into a conical shape.
12. Press the apex of the cone and the base towards each other and flatten
slightly. The roll will now be a small, approximately round lump of dough
again.
13. Lightly flour the board once more and roll out the dough as gently as
possible, taking care not to press too hard and let the air out at the edges.
14. Grease liberally an iron griddle or heavyweight frying pan and heat over
moderate heat.
15. Cook each paratha individually, turning it over occasionally and
spreading more ghee until both sides are a golden brown.
16. Serve hot with a curry or dhall or butter and sugar.
regards,
trillium
kokl...@my-dejanews.com
There's an article on Indian breads on 6/7/98 on-line version of
Malaysia's The Star. The URL is http://thestar.com.my/current/07jzsf.html
There're also recipes on the article which includes: Garlic Naan, Puri,
Batura and Chapati. After Sunday (in US), you'll find the article in the
archive section for a week.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Richard Sherratt
kokl...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
Thanks for posting that. The pictures had me drooling :-) Reminded me
of the chapatis I used to have when I was 7 and 8. Made by the
bearer's wife and cooked in their kitchen on a tava over a charcoal
fire. I've been hooked ever since.
Regards,
Richard.