HELP! I'm desperate...
Abo...@aol.com
conduct of the contra dancers during walk-throughs at dances. It has become
increasingly noisy (talking, laughing, inattention) during the walk-throughs,
enough that several callers (including myself) no longer accept regular, big
dance gigs. I've tried many things from cajoling to talking to the advanced
dancers about setting a good example to speaking very quietly into the mike
to saying nothing to saying "let me know when you're ready to dance" (and
waiting for self-shushing), but nothing seems to work.
I've danced in the D.C., Boston and North Carolina areas, as well as New
Mexico and Colorado, and I only notice the noise level in New Mexico. My
questions to the folk network are: (1) Is this a common problem or one
unique to New Mexico? (2) If it is a common problem, do any callers have
effective methods for dealing with it?
I only give one or two walk throughs, no matter what the skill level of the
dancers, so it's not as though I'm taking too long to teach. The
counter-argument to my frustration at the lack of courtesy is that "the
dancers are having a good time, being rowdy, and their raw energy is
invigorating." I just find it rude and a big problem for beginners who
actually NEED the walk through more than most. I'm about ready to try just
starting the dance with no walk through and if it breaks down, then maybe
they will listen.
In case you're wondering, I have a reputation as a good, funny, creative
caller, but this problem has gotten me frustrated to no end. Help! (Dan
Pearl's already given me some good suggestions--are there others out there?)
Thanks. Reply to:
Greg McKenzie
> I'm embroiled in a somewhat spirited dispute in our community about the
> conduct of the contra dancers during walk-throughs at dances. It has become
> increasingly noisy (talking, laughing, inattention) during the walk-throughs,
> enough that several callers (including myself) no longer accept regular, big
> dance gigs. I've tried many things from cajoling to talking to the advanced
> dancers about setting a good example to speaking very quietly into the mike
> to saying nothing to saying "let me know when you're ready to dance" (and
> waiting for self-shushing), but nothing seems to work.
>
This is a common problem. My suggestions are:
- Allow sufficient time for people to socialize between dances.
- After any period of silence make sure that the first words spoken by the
caller are an instruction for the dancers to physically move.
- Project and articulate with exagerated clarity. (This does not mean to
speak loudly. Loudness is counter-productive in this case.)
- Eliminate all unnecessary words. This requires a lot of discipline and
preparation. Let someone else make any announcements. Say only the words
absolutely necessary to get the dance started. Dancers will soon figure
out that the caller's voice always carries essential information.
I think your technique of speaking softly is a good one but only if the
above techniques are applied. I have also heard it said that, along with
excessive ornamentation (twirls, etc.), noisy dancers during a walk-through
may be an indication that the program is not challenging enough for the
dancers. Calling some unfamiliar or more challenging material may get
their attention. This will require more skill and preparation on the
caller's part, however. If you are not able to teach a challenging dance
quickly and precisely you may get more attention than you want.
Good luck.
Regards,
Greg McKenzie
Montery, CA
Kiran Wagle
>above techniques are applied. I have also heard it said that, along with
>excessive ornamentation (twirls, etc.), noisy dancers during a walk-through
>may be an indication that the program is not challenging enough for the
>dancers. Calling some unfamiliar or more challenging material may get
A very good point, this. (See, people DO occasionally post agreement to
the net.) Furthermore, I think that if dancers aren't having as much
fun _dancing_ as they might be, then they won't be waiting with
anticipation for the next dance. That doesn't necessarily suggest more
_challenging_ dances, but merely more interesting ones--last sunday at
Glen Echo, my favorite dance of the evening was "94 South Street," which
is hardly a challenge.
~ Kiran <gr...@netcom.com>
Gregory E. Frock
One method used by Becky Hill, (who got it from someone else) is to say,
"Now for the tricky part", which she claims works for her. Of course, if you
follow this by saying "circle left" all the time, it will lose effectiveness.
If I am working with a band I know well, I suppose I could do something
funny, like getting them to play some fanfare, and then say, "and now for the
dance" or some such nonsense.
One problem with doing anything is that if a caller is calling for the same
group of dancers, and "gimmicky" way of attracting the dancers' attention
will get stale with use. So, I would recommend using gimmicks sparingly. The
other points made in this thread are also very good.
-Greg
Edith J. Henderson
>I'm embroiled in a somewhat spirited dispute in our community about the
>conduct of the contra dancers during walk-throughs at dances. It has become
>increasingly noisy (talking, laughing, inattention) during the walk-throughs,
>enough that several callers (including myself) no longer accept regular, big
>dance gigs. I've tried many things from cajoling to talking to the advanced
>dancers about setting a good example to speaking very quietly into the mike
>to saying nothing to saying "let me know when you're ready to dance" (and
>waiting for self-shushing), but nothing seems to work.
To Ms. "Abogada"'s credit, I must say that she is indeed a lively and
charming caller! I am not sure what the best solution is.... Our average
Albuquerque dance draws a mix of experienced dancers (easily bored),
intermediate but occasionally somewhat marginal dancers (could use help but
don't like to admit it) and rank beginners (don't know where they keep coming
from, but there's a steady flow). The experienced/intermediate dancers go to
the head of the set nearest the caller and chat, and the beginners cower at
the far end of the set where the caller is scarcely audible. This tends to
turn the far end of the set into sort of a "black hole" that sucks you in
as you draw near.
Ideas: We never have much time for socializing -- perhaps having a longer
pause between dances would leave more time for this. I liked what someone
posted a few weeks ago about stopping and thanking each member of your final
set and chatting briefly.
Dragging the beginners up to the head of the set would help a lot, but they
would hate it. Maybe individually convincing the better dancers to move more
toward the bottom end as a nice gesture would help.
- Edie -
--
Edie Henderson (505) 766-5549 ed...@nmb.uscourts.gov
Systems Analyst Programmer 73737...@compuserve.com
U. S. Bankruptcy Court, District of New Mexico ed...@alumni.cco.caltech.edu
Treasurer, New Mexico Folk Music And Dance Society
Greg McKenzie
ed...@p4nmb.nmb.uscourts.gov (Edith J. Henderson) wrote:
>
> Dragging the beginners up to the head of the set would help a lot, but they
> would hate it. Maybe individually convincing the better dancers to move more
> toward the bottom end as a nice gesture would help.
>
In fact beginners LOVE it at the top of the center set. This is the proper
place for them. This is where they will cause the least disruption. This
is where they will learn quickly and have the most fun. If you enjoy short
walk-throughs and zesty energetic dancing you should work to get beginners
to the top of the center set.
Jim Saxe
>...
>In fact beginners LOVE it at the top of the center set. This is the proper
>place for them. This is where they will cause the least disruption. This
>is where they will learn quickly and have the most fun. If you enjoy short
>walk-throughs and zesty energetic dancing you should work to get beginners
>to the top of the center set.
I agree that beginners certainly benefit from being surrounded by as
many experienced dancers as possible and from being in the part of
the hall where they are best able to hear and be seen by the caller.
My question is: If we train beginning dancers to be assertive and
quick in claiming experienced partners and prime floor space, how can
we effectively instill the idea that such aggressive behavior is not so
appropriate once they are no longer beginners?
--Jim Saxe <sa...@src.dec.com>
Echo 01
From: gre...@pdsc.com (Greg McKenzie)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 12:32:13 -1000
Message-ID: <gregmc-20...@162.49.74.64>
ed...@p4nmb.nmb.uscourts.gov (Edith J. Henderson) wrote:
>>
>> Dragging the beginners up to the head of the set would help a lot,
but they
>> would hate it. Maybe individually convincing the better dancers
to move >more toward the bottom end as a nice gesture would help.
>>
In article <gregmc-20...@162.49.74.64>, gre...@pdsc.com (Greg
McKenzie) replied:
>In fact beginners LOVE it at the top of the center set. This is the
proper
>place for them. This is where they will cause the least disruption.
This
>is where they will learn quickly and have the most fun. If you
enjoy short
>walk-throughs and zesty energetic dancing you should work to get
>beginners to the top of the center set.
And interestingly enough several manuals instruct you to put the new
dancers at the foot of the dance or the fourth position in a square.
Where as the better solution is to pair them up with experanced
dancers. Also stronglly encourge their attandance to workshops before
the dance or if you have them a SHORT series of classes. The classes
are the best but you must get them hooked by having them dancing the
first nite. That is why I think the short predance classes called
workshops may be the best second step and the longer classes as a
third step.
Greg McKenzie
wrote:
>
> And interestingly enough several manuals instruct you to put the new
> dancers at the foot of the dance or the fourth position in a square.
> Where as the better solution is to pair them up with experanced
> dancers. Also stronglly encourge their attandance to workshops before
> the dance or if you have them a SHORT series of classes. The classes
> are the best but you must get them hooked by having them dancing the
> first nite. That is why I think the short predance classes called
> workshops may be the best second step and the longer classes as a
> third step.
I always assure beginning contra dancers that there is no need for them to
attend a beginner's orientation and encourage them to find experienced
partners and to line up quickly. This will build their confidence and ease
their anxiety. It's also true.
Greg
Monterey, CA
Greg McKenzie
wrote:
>
> I agree that beginners certainly benefit from being surrounded by as
> many experienced dancers as possible and from being in the part of
> the hall where they are best able to hear and be seen by the caller.
> My question is: If we train beginning dancers to be assertive and
> quick in claiming experienced partners and prime floor space, how can
> we effectively instill the idea that such aggressive behavior is not so
> appropriate once they are no longer beginners?
>
> --Jim Saxe <sa...@src.dec.com>
Jim,
Once they are no longer beginners they are most likely to treat beginners
as they were treated when they were beginners. It is important that they
realize that they are receiving the advice because they are beginners.
Greg McKenzie
Monterey, CA
Jim Saxe
>I'm embroiled in a somewhat spirited dispute in our community about the
>conduct of the contra dancers during walk-throughs at dances. It has become
>increasingly noisy (talking, laughing, inattention) during the walk-throughs,
>enough that several callers (including myself) no longer accept regular, big
>dance gigs. I've tried many things from cajoling to talking to the advanced
>dancers about setting a good example to speaking very quietly into the mike
>to saying nothing to saying "let me know when you're ready to dance" (and
>waiting for self-shushing), but nothing seems to work.
Here's a good exercise for any caller plagued by crowd noise:
Get a tape recorder and record yourself at a dance. Tape through the
atmosphere--not by direct feed from the mixer--so that you get the
crowd noise on tape. Force yourself to listen to the tape. The
variations in crowd noise during the course of each walk-through can
be a dramatic indication of when you are saying things that the
dancers consider worth listening to.
On the other hand, here are some examples of what NOT to do,
illustrated with a dance (never yet called to live dancers) that
I threw together for the occasion.
The dance:
Teach Me by Jim Saxe
Duple, improper contra
1&2. Balance and swing neighbor.
3. Circle left once around.
4. Balance in a ring, pass through across, and turn alone.
(Actives are now below the inactives, and are proper,
while inactives are in first place and improper.)
5. Long lines go forward and back.
6. Actives swing and face up (proper).
7. Allemande by handy hand (M1, W2 by R; W1, M2 by L)
almost 2x around (leaving actives still below the inactives,
actives facing in, inactives facing out).
8. Actives cross up the middle (W going first) and cast
(unassisted) down the outside to progressed position,
while inactives cast down the outside and cross up the
middle. (English country dancers will recognize this as
half of a double figure eight.)
How to achieve maximum crowd noise while teaching it in just thirty
minutes:
1. Talk for a while about the name and history of the dance--how
there was a discussion on the net and somebody wrote this dance
to illustrate some points and explained how to teach it. Say
that you think it was Dan Pearl or maybe Ted Sannella. :-)
2. Without changing your intonation, start the walk-through with
"The first thing that happens in this dance is a figure called
`balance and swing'. The way it the balance works is that you
join right hands ..." After going on like this for a while,
mention that the balance and swing was to be done with "opposites."
3. Oh, yeah! Tell the dancers to take hands four and cross over.
4. "NOW, actives balance and swing" (pause) "your opposites."
(Of course it will be self-evident to the newest beginner that your
"opposite" is a person on the same side of the set with you.) Keep
repeating the instruction "balance and swing" until you see everybody
doing it, even those who already have.
5. Tell "everybody" to put their "partner" on their right at the end of
the swing (but not which way to face).
6. Tell the dancers to join hands. Then tell them to circle left.
Assume they know you mean once around, even if the previous dance
ended with "circle left three quarters; pass through" and the one
before that featured "circle left 3/4; swing your partner." Don't
check the floor, either before or after the circle, to see whether
the arrangement of men and women is the same in every minor set;
keep your eyes on your dance card.
7. Now tell everybody to pass through. After a pause of a few
seconds, add "across the set." After another pause, add "and
turn alone." After another pause, mention that there should
have been a balance before the pass through. Maybe you should
go back and practice it. Do the dancers need to practice that?
Ask for a show of hands. A few hands go up. Okay. "Everybody
circle up four." Pause just long enough for some people to
start circling. Tell them to balance and pass through. "No.
Don't move the circle, just make a circle and balance." "No,
you should have gone back to where you started it the first time."
"Are you all there?" (Ask, but don't look.) "Okay, everybody
join hands and balance and pass through." "... from where you
were after the circle." ... (eventually:) "OK. Are you there?"
(Expect them to understand that "there" now means the finishing
spot for the "pass through and turn alone," not the starting spot.)
"You only do it once in the actual dance. Don't worry about it.
I'll call it."
8. "Everybody join hands" (pause) "go forward and back." (Showing
irritation:) "... from where you were after the pass through!"
Talk about how important it is to do the forward and back with
the musical phrase.
9. Speaking of music, did you remember to tell the musicians what kind
of tune you want for this dance? Better discuss it with them now.
...
OK. Let's get back to the dancers. [Note to musicians: If you
run through tunes during the walk-through, be sure to stay close to
the mics.]
10. Without mentioning that the actives are (or should be) now below
the inactives, tell the actives to swing. Actually, you don't
need to specify "actives"; if you just say "swing your partners"
or "swing in the middle," the dancers should understand that
the calls are directed to the actives (even though 90% of the
dances now done in your community are equal dances).
11. Give the dancers enough time so that they will stop swinging on their
own. Then say "and face the ones ABOVE you." Keep your eyes on
your card while you say this, so you that won't notice if some
dancers who had ended facing down now turn alone to face up, or
if some dancers try to find someone other than their original
neighbors to be the "ones above."
12. Explain what's coming next: "The figure that happens next is
something called a handy-hand allemande. Some people call it a
mirror allemande, but I'll probably just say `handy-hand' when
I'm calling it. That's what they say in Boston. The men do it
with their left hand and the women do it with their right hand."
(Remember, instructions are directed to the actives; inactives
must infer what is required of them!)
13. Now is the time for succinctness. Say "Gotwicearoundandfinishwith-
theonescrossingupandcastingdownwhilethetwoscastdownandcrossup."
14. Maybe they need another walk-through. Better take a poll. Yup.
"Let's try it again." (Let them decide on their own whether to
start from original or progressed positions.)
15. Is the center line too crowded? Now would be a good time to
encourage some dancers to join the side lines. Keep it up until
you get some takers. Tell everyone to retake hands four. If
they ask from where, say "From where you are now."
16. Since the dance is unequal, have the people who were inactive
during the first walk-through be active during the second
walk-through. There are lots of ways to explain that this is
what you're doing and to get the dancers set up in the correct
positions, with the correct neighbors, and thinking of themselves
in the correct roles. Almost anything explanation you come up
with should work, particularly if delivered in the manner shown
in step 13 above.
17. That half of a double figure eight at the end of the dance gave
some trouble last time, so maybe we should walk through just
that figure before walking through the whole dance again.
If you get questions about where to start from, you have
many options available. For example, you may:
a. ignore them,
b. say that it doesn't matter,
c. tell them that its done with actives in progressed position,
but don't tell them to switch sides, and don't tell them
whether you mean the "old" actives or the "new" actives, or
d. tell them that the actives should be standing below the
inactives and that "the man should be to my right and the
woman should be to my left" (don't say anything about
which side the inactives should be on).
Whatever you say, be sure your tone of voice conveys your
irritation with the dancers' obtuseness. If you have the actives
and inactives practice their parts separately before combining them,
don't say anything about crossing back before the combined
walk-through (or say something that could equally well mean either
"Go back to where we started practicing this figure" or "Go back
to where we start the dance"). If you see some of the dancers
trying to do assisted casts, don't say anything about it, or the
dancers will know you've broken eye contact with your card (which,
by the way, must not contain any of the parenthesized information
from my description of the dance). If you must say something,
say "It's unassisted casts." With luck, this will come through
the sound system and the room noise as "It's an assisted cast."
18. Regardless of what starting position you used for practicing the
half double figure eight, go immediately into the second
walk-through of the dance: "Everybody join hands ... and
balance ... and swing your opposite."
19. If there are problems in the second walk-through, say, "I guess
I picked too hard a dance for the people here tonight." Put
the card away and switch to something like Jefferson and Liberty.
Be sure to teach it thoroughly.
--Jim Saxe
Phil Katz
Abo...@aol.com wrote:
>I'm embroiled in a somewhat spirited dispute in our community about the
>conduct of the contra dancers during walk-throughs at dances. It has
>become increasingly noisy (talking, laughing, inattention)
>during the walk-throughs, enough that several callers (including myself)
>no longer accept regular, big dance gigs. I've tried many things from
>cajoling to talking to the advanced dancers about setting a good example
>to speaking very quietly into the mike to saying nothing to saying
>"let me know when you're ready to dance" (and
>waiting for self-shushing), but nothing seems to work.
> Get a tape recorder and record yourself at a dance. Tape through the
> atmosphere--not by direct feed from the mixer--so that you get the
> crowd noise on tape. Force yourself to listen to the tape. The
> variations in crowd noise during the course of each walk-through can
> be a dramatic indication of when you are saying things that the
> dancers consider worth listening to.
>
annoy the dancers with verbosity and clumsy calling.
No doubt some callers are the cause of this phenomenon "talking, laughing,
inattention during the walk-throughs". But there is imho yet another
explanation for such behavior, and one that requires neither blaming the
dancers for their ill manners nor the caller for ineptness.
Some dancers may simply _prefer_ not to completely absorb the dance during
the walkthrough, in favor of picking it up, tactilely and on the move
from the rest of the crowd once the dance has started. It is a form of
dancers' cheap thrill - the one we all get on occasion when a very
difficult dance initially fails to come together and then does, by dint of
nudges, gentle shoves, and a few well spoken words or exaggerated
body-language hints. It's not unreasonable for some folks to enhance the
liklihood that they will "discover" the dance this way. (Of course if
_everyone_ did this, there would be chaos, but people being who they are,
everyone does not, thus forming a nice symbiosis between the careful
listners and the others.)
Farfetched, you say; well let me recount a story. Myself, I'm a "learn it
right from the beginning" man, so it took the following to make me
appreciate a mindset different from my own.
Toward the end of my rookie-ness as a contradancer (it was a long time - I
was _not_ a "natural" at all) I was dancing a contra with a woman (call
her M), a very good dancer who had patiently helped me learn to dance. It
was a nontrivial contra, called by some "name" caller. I was just feeling
my oats (finally) as a dancer, and I really wanted to "nail" this dance.
To my dismay, though I was hanging on the caller's every word and moving
attentively through the walkthrough, M was still engrossed in ongoing
gossip with a member of the opposite couple, and in general interacting
with eveyone around her. I finally said something deft, like "C'mon M, I
really want to 'get' this dance". Well as you can imagine I got a snappy
and (uncharacteristically) snotty remark for my trouble; I had not
understood at all and had looked out only for myself.
After the dance, apologizing in a perplexed way, I got a small lecture
about left and right brainedness, in which it came out that M
_deliberately_ did not listen in the walkthrough and (in complete contrast
to thye way I'm wired) actively prefers to be a bit perplexed as the dance
begins and to be helped into it; nice "community" feelings, mystery
revealed, surprise, and etc.
Later dancing with M over the years has revealed that she was, in fact,
truly revealing one of her dance "secrets". Mostly she still pays scant
attention in the walkthrough, and there is a nice little flirtation
between old friends as I coax her into motion in the walkthrough and/or
help her through the first few times through the dance.
I have come to believe that a fair fraction of dancers here in Seattle
(and particularly at the well-known Thurs night Eagles Hall dance) do
deliberately ignore the teaching either for the thrill of being swept into
the dance or for the challenge of picking up the dance on the fly. While
this style does not suit me personally, I can't say that it makes for bad
dancing. Indeed Seattle dancers (and dancers at the Eagles" in particular)
seem particularly good at adaptation - recovering a line that gets
"broken", sweeping slightly confused beginners into non-trivial dances,
etc. The habit could be a bit disconcerting to visiting callers, but I
suspect the scuttlebutt has by now left them forewarned.
So to "desparate" I suggest considering my hypothesis. Don't get into a
contest with the _apparent_ "louts". Pick an interesting,
medium-difficulty dance with lots of nice "flow" (thus tactile and/or
eyecontact cues); better yet one that folks in the area have danced often
at previous dances. Start right in teaching. If hands-four recalcitrantly
doesn't go down the set due to all the gossiping, start in anyway, then
break off while hands four propagates and then start again. Once. Teach
the dance once, deftly, smilingly, and confidently (no matter how you
actually feel.) Then after an "it looks like we're ready to go" (more
confidence exhuded) and perhaps an " all back to place and lets dance",
start up the band and begin calling. If the hypothesis is right (and the
dancers are any good at all) the dance will come together the 3rd/4th time
through. Admittedly it's a risky proposition, but the mindset I've
described is exactly about choosing risk deliberately; if that's how your
dancers are, then if you're their caller you probably have to be prepared
to take the risks along with them. I'm not a caller, but it's what
callers seem to do here at the Eagles, and it's apparently successful.
CynthyaB
I find that it is important to allow dancers to socialize. It is after
all a social occasion. I also keep my walkthroughs fairly short, unless
there are a large number of beginning dancers. I follow David Kaynor's
theory that seems to be in practice at his Greenfield Dances, teach the
dance while people are talking it's a sure bet that they'll pick it up.
Also, don't call complicated dances. Keep it simple and they'll have more
fun!
Good luck!
Cynthia