tips for men
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
So, what are the best things that men can do for women in contra dancing?
Michael Young
Pittsburgh, PA
Chicoqueen
writes:
>So, what are the best things that men can do for women in contra dancing?
IMNSHO:
1) Keep your fingertips out of the woman's kidneys during the swings. This is
esp important if you are on the short side and the woman is tall. This is even
more important if you like to swing hard and fast. Aim for her shoulder blade
-- or her spine if you can bring your right hand up that high. Use the flat
of your hand and wrist, making your bicep do the work.
2) Do not attempt any embellishments (twirling courtesy turns, twirling swing
endings, etc.) unless you are 100% sure when the band is playing the first and
last beat of every musical phrase.
3) Never force a woman to twirl, even if you've seen her twirling with other
men. She may be getting dizzy. She may want to flirt with you instead of
watch the room blur.
3) Begin your embellishments (see #2) far enough before the end of the phrase
that you deliver the woman to the location of her next figure in time for her
to make contact with the participating dancer/s ON the first beat of the next
phrase.
4) Strive to avoid leading with rapid accelerating movements (aka being a
jerk).
There's a few quick tips, to start with.
Reine Wonite
<chico...@aol.com>
Chico, CA
KMsSavage
situation.
6) If you sweat a lot, bring a change of shirts.
--Karen in Ann Arbor
baby it's HOT here!
bswe...@hamilton.edu
kmss...@aol.com (KMsSavage) wrote:
> 5) Pay some attention to personal grooming prior to going out for a social
> situation.
> 6) If you sweat a lot, bring a change of shirts.
7) Lead or guide your partner into the next figure. 8) Complete the figure.
There are some men who just kind of let go at the end of a swing instead of
opening out. It feels like being dropped. 9) Don't expect your partner to
give weight if your hand is resting on her side or hip, use your whole
forearm for support. 10) Don't force fast/hard swings. 11) Mix around. Too
often I attend dances with an excess of women and it's the beginning women
who end up dancing together. You'll notice them very easily during one dance,
dance with one of them during the next one.
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KMsSavage
for you can really torque the wrist of someone shorter.
13) Develop an awareness of your own strength in relation to (lack of) that of
others. (If you want to arm wrestle, try a different venue.)
Edith J. Henderson
>
> So, what are the best things that men can do for women in contra dancing?
>
(I wrote this the other night, but my newsserver was down -- hope I'm
not too far behind the flow of this thread...)
Well, here are a couple of my pet peeves -- this focuses on the
negative, but that's the part where men can really do something for
women:
1. If you get any hint that the woman you are dancing with is
uncomfortable or unhappy with your dancing, either take her aside
afterwards and politely ask for feedback or seek out a personal friend
and ask for advice. Typical hints are: Grimacing in pain during a
particular move, or asking questions like "So, have you been dancing
long?" Men who are oblivious and not trying to improve are the main
complaint of women everywhere.
2. Don't squash the woman's body (i.e., chest) against yours too tightly
-- this is painful and invasive, and there are better ways to flirt
while dancing.
3. If you get really sweaty, don't wear tank tops! Consider bringing
several shirts and changing periodically.
4. Give weight on swings and allemandes as appropriate for our relative
sizes and tastes and energy levels -- tall women like me sometimes like
things pretty strong, but other more petite women get tired of being
twirled around like rag dolls. In particular, early in the evening when
everyone is well rested, go for the fast, buzz-step swing if you can
manage it -- the walking swing is nice when tired, but is kind of a
downer if you do it exclusively.
5. Be a cheerful partner -- flirting is optional, but smiling is not.
In particular, no matter how advanced you are, try not to sneer at your
partner -- if she is not as experienced as you, teach her some things if
there's time.
- Edie -
Robin Cohen
> mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
> >
> > So, what are the best things that men can do for women in contra dancing?
> >
So glad you asked......
(Haven't read this newsgroup in a while, so I hope I'm not repeating
others' comments.)
My biggest pet peeve for intermediate-to-experienced male dancers is
that they think it is more impressive to lead fancy moves than to give a
strong lead, be on time, or make good eye contact (especially during a
courtesy turn). I enjoy twirling as much as the next person, but not
all the time (variety is the spice....etc), and definitely not at the
expense of timing.
Get a clue, men. The fact that you can twirl me does not impress me,
especially if it makes us late, or if it might confuse any inexperienced
dancers in the general vicinity. And don't forget the safety issues of
twirling in a crowded room.
Okay, I'm done ranting now.
In summary, the best things that men can do for women, or anybody for
anybody, in contra dancing, are being on time, giving good weight, and
giving the appropriate amount of attention to the person/people with
whom you are dancing. (Wow, that works for other types of dancing too!)
--
**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**
Robin Cohen rco...@idiom.com
Silicon Valley, USA
**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**
Joseph Peidle
>
>My biggest pet peeve for intermediate-to-experienced male dancers is
>that they think it is more impressive to lead fancy moves than to give a
>strong lead, be on time, or make good eye contact (especially during a
>courtesy turn). I enjoy twirling as much as the next person, but not
>all the time (variety is the spice....etc), and definitely not at the
>expense of timing.
Thank you for bringing this up. I am a great fan of the courtesy turn
which is not just about eye contact, but can be as satisfying in terms
of giving weight as an allemande or swing. The courtesy turn has waned
somewhat in Boston due to twirling, which is OK, but I would like to see
it danced zestily as much as possible.
-joe peidle
Alan Gedance
Peidle) wrote:
>
>Thank you for bringing this up. I am a great fan of the courtesy turn
>which is not just about eye contact, but can be as satisfying in terms
>of giving weight as an allemande or swing. The courtesy turn has waned
>somewhat in Boston due to twirling, which is OK, but I would like to see
>it danced zestily as much as possible.
If a courtesy turn following a ladies' chain or right and left through
is done properly it takes four beats to complete. What can one do to
make this figure zesty? One can do it well, of course, but short of
substituting another figure such as a butterfly twirl or a lady's
twirl, how does one make a basically slow figure "zesty".
Unfortunately, there are too many dancers who make it zesty by doing
the turn in only two beats, sending the woman into the next figure two
beats early.
The solution to the difference in tastes about the twirl vs. courtesy
turn is to signal your partner of the moment as to whether or not
you'd like to do or to initiate a twirl. But whatever you do. don't
make a courtesy turn zesty by making it quick and early. You don't
gain points by being ahead of the music.
A zesty courtesy turn is a contradiction in terms, like a zesty nap.
If you're doing a courtesy turn, do it well. Relax and enjoy it.
Alan
(To reply by email, remove the middle initial "r" in my username, argedance.)
Chicoqueen
> I am a great fan of the courtesy turn
>which is not just about eye contact, but can be as satisfying in terms
>of giving weight as an allemande or swing. The courtesy turn has waned
>somewhat in Boston due to twirling, which is OK, but I would like to see
>it danced zestily as much as possible.
>
>
When I was first learning to contradance in '86, I experienced courtesy-turning
with a partner (who was one of the few experienced dancers in thethen nascent
Chico contra community) who was wont to do a two-beat courtesy turn into a
simple triple-step to fill out the time. Not only was it zesty, it also
provided me with a pivotal "aha!" experience regarding the connection between
choreography and musical phrasing. I find it more flirtacious than twirling,
certainly. It's a shamemost wannabe hotshot men think twirling is necessarily
better or more fun for the woman. There are plenty of ways to show off without
sacificing eye-contact (or timing, needst I add?).
Reine "twirl less -- flirt more" Wonite
North California
Dan Allison
In article <199807272202...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
chico...@aol.com (Chicoqueen) wrote:
> ...I experienced courtesy-turning with a partner (who was one of the few
> experienced dancers in thethen nascent Chico contra community) who was wont to
> do a two-beat courtesy turn into a simple triple-step to fill out the time.
> Not only was it zesty, it also provided me with a pivotal "aha!" experience
> regarding the connection between choreography and musical phrasing...
> Reine "twirl less -- flirt more" Wonite
> North California
Dan Allison Raincloud Publishing Chico CA
dal...@cello.gina.calstate.edu 916-894-7611
~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^~~~~
The Martins
: If a courtesy turn following a ladies' chain or right and left through
: is done properly it takes four beats to complete. What can one do to
: make this figure zesty? One can do it well, of course, but short of
: substituting another figure such as a butterfly twirl or a lady's
: twirl, how does one make a basically slow figure "zesty".
S-l-o-w it down, lean away from each other, carve out the biggest arc you
can, make it a smooth and controlled four-beat turn. Wring every bit of
pleasure out of those four steps. It is frustrating in a contra line when
every woman initiates a twirl. I want to scream, "Please! Just try an old
fashioned courtesy turn once. You might like it!" A twirling courtesy
turn completely skips over this delicious move. I'm not against the
twirling turn, I'm disappointed that I rarely get to do the far more
challenging and satisfying old time courtesy turn.
Bill Martin
Alan Gedance
On 27 Jul 1998, Chicoqueen wrote:
> When I was first learning to contradance in '86, I experienced courtesy-turning
> with a partner (who was one of the few experienced dancers in the then nascent
> Chico contra community) who was wont to do a two-beat courtesy turn into a
> simple triple-step to fill out the time. Not only was it zesty, it also provided
> me with a pivotal "aha!" experience regarding the connection between
> choreography and musical phrasing.
Hi, Reine. Would you please elaborate? You say that the courtesy
turn takes two beats. That gives you six beats to cross the hall in a
chain or a R+LT, which is two beats too many in my opinion. Did you
possibly do _two_ triple steps to complete the turn? This would
account for a total of four beats, since each swing-style triple step
takes two beats to complete.
Joseph Peidle
Alan Gedance <See signature below-> wrote:
>On 27 Jul 1998 13:21:06 GMT, pei...@login2.fas.harvard.edu (Joseph
>Peidle) wrote:
>>
>>which is not just about eye contact, but can be as satisfying in terms
>>of giving weight as an allemande or swing. The courtesy turn has waned
>>somewhat in Boston due to twirling, which is OK, but I would like to see
>>it danced zestily as much as possible.
>
>is done properly it takes four beats to complete. What can one do to
>make this figure zesty? One can do it well, of course, but short of
>substituting another figure such as a butterfly twirl or a lady's
>twirl, how does one make a basically slow figure "zesty".
<snip>
>A zesty courtesy turn is a contradiction in terms, like a zesty nap.
>If you're doing a courtesy turn, do it well. Relax and enjoy it.
I think we are getting into the question of what "zesty" means. The
closest synonym for my meaning would be "satisfying," indicating
rewarding connection in the figure. Zesty does not necessarily
mean high-energy. Does anyone have a copy of "Zesty Contras" next
to their computer?
-joe
Chicoqueen
stop-action video replay:
Given eight beats for a half chain, lead the women to take right hands with her
neighbor woman as she steps into the set and onto her right foot with the first
beat. She pulls past the other woman as she steps onto her left foot with the
second beat, takes left hands with the other man as she steps onto her right
foot with the third beat, steps onto her left foot as he leads her into
line(and as he takes hold of her left hand) facing out with the fourth beat.
What's that you say? The courtesy turn? Here it comes:
For the actual turn, the man and woman pivot as a unit (women stepping forward,
men stepping backwards -- but you knew that) to acheive an about-face (180
degrees) into the set with beats five and six, leaving beats seven and eight
for the tri-ple-step in place. "Triple step" (as I understand the term) means
taking three steps (changes of weight from one foot to another) in two beats.
In practice, the last of the three steps ends with a solid jump onto both feet,
which leaves either foot free to start the next figure. Teaching this to
neighbors works best where the man and woman are paired for a full right-left
through, tho, because of the repetion. (So ask her for the next dance!)
The man who showed this to me back in '86 (Steve Kroeger, to give him his
credit due) thus made it clear to me we were *not* to start the next figure
until the music told us to! At dances where *good* (note I didn't say
"experienced") dancers are few, I've noticed newcomers are often slow to
realize that contra choreography is connected to musical phrasing, esp when
musicians don't make a point of emphasizing the start of each phrase. (Sadly,
this is often the case in geographical areas where dance organizers have
difficulty hiring musicians who are aware of and are able/willing to learn the
styling of play that distinguishes a nice folk concert band from a hot contra
dance band -- not to mention be willing to tackle the latter's marathon
endurance requirements.) Thus, in less-demanding figure sequences you'll see
such folks will tend to "rush" the figures ahead of the music.
So here's a tip for you men hoping to transform newbie dancers into good
dancers: instead of trying to spin her 'till the last possible nano-second (in
hope of impressing her how "hotshot" you are), try using the courtesy turn as a
way to illustrate the importance of phrasing, so they'll learn (to qoute from
ECD):
"The music will tell you what to do!"
Reine Wonite
North California