Contra dancing at a wedding?
Tom Short
Hello all,
I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
Thanks for any help.
-Tom Short
tsh...@zip.com.au
Jonathan Sivier
Tom Short <tsh...@zip.com.au> writes:
>Hello all,
>I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
>to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
>anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
>wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
I don't know about historically, but in my experience this is very common
in the dancing community and not unheard of elsewhere. My first experience
with contra dance was at a wedding reception. The couple getting married
were not dancers, but they liked the music and the band they hired suggested
having a dance at the reception. I got dragged (literally) onto the floor
and had a great time. I then found out where the local dance group met and
have been going ever since. I've called dances at a couple of weddings as
well. None of them were for ardent dancers, but just people who thought
their guests might like to try something fun and a little different. The
exposure (to contra dance) from this has brought a few new converts to our
local dance. I'd say if you enjoy contra dance your guests will as well.
They'll have a fun and different experience and you may recruit a few new
dancers.
Jonathan
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KC5YWX
Tom Short wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be
> fun
> to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
> anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to
> the
> wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
>
No, it is not a faux pas. I just returned from a Contra dance wedding
reception and it was fantastic. The dance community was invited to a
potluck dinner, followed by the cake cutting ceremony, then a warm-up
dance and mixer to get everyone in the spirit. Then several Contra
dances interspersed with waltzes and a Hambo. The energy was really
great. I would highly recommend a similar wedding reception.
-Jim Boros
Nancy K. Martin
Tom Short <tsh...@zip.com.au> wrote:
: I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
: to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
: anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
: wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
Tom, I'm reluctant to call contras at a wedding dance unless a majority,
or sizable minority, of the folks are contra dancers. I know callers who
insist that teaching contras at this kind of dance is do-able and can be
successful. I have attended many wedding dances as a musician and have yet
to witness a contra-oriented wedding dance that was as much fun as a
contra-free dance when the people are not dancers.
Contras are just complex enough, and teaching dependent enough, to be an
imposition upon rather than an enhancement of a wedding party. The focus
of a wedding gig should be on the married couple's celebration, not on the
dance. The dances should serve to bring together and mix up the two
opposing groups at the wedding. That means very little teaching and lots
of fun movement, best facilitated by circle mixers, longways sets like
Galopede, squares, scatter mixers and live music.
This has been my experience, although it could be I am just lousy at
teaching contras! Contras work great at some one night stands, but for a
wedding there are better dance forms. But what the hell, a contra dance is
far better than a DJ spinning platters.
Bill Martin
mar...@teleport.com
DanzGypsy
I agree with Bill. While I have called contra dances at weddings--both
where the majority were contra dancers and also the minority, Contra
dancing doesn't go over well. You might try the Virginia Reel (but how
many repetitions of that will the experienced dancers in your crowd go
for). The spotlight should remain on the bride and groom, with the
traditional waltz with her father, etc.
I'm all in favor of having a separate, Contra dance celebration,
reception for your contra dancing friends, and what members of the wedding
party and their families as may want to attend, on say the Saturday night
before a Sunday wedding. (that's worked well in the past)
Craig in Charlotte
They who dance are thought mad
By those who hear not the music.
MacMKvr
While contras may not work with all beginner groups at weddings, there are
many more dances that work just as well as the Virginia Reel at these
events. A good caller can judge from the crown and the level of
paritcipation from experienced dancers what will work. When in doubt -
keep it simple. Nothing is worse than attempting dificult dances that the
group can not handle.
It has been my experience that these receptions are enjoyed by both dancer
freinds and other friends and family members. If this is something you
enjoy, it is an excellent way to invite your friends to see why.
mac
GregMc
A couple of contra dancers here planned their wedding on the day of a
contra dance. They invited the entire wedding party to the local contra
dance after the wedding. (They actually approached the local organizers
and asked for a bulk discounted price for the entire wedding party. This
was a good deal for both the wedding couple and the dance as it drew in a
much bigger crowd.)
This arrangement worked out well for the local dance since there were
enough experienced dancers to absorb the beginners. It was a fun dance.
It might not work everywhere but it was appropriate for these groups.
Just a thought,
Greg McKenzie
Somewhere near Santa Cruz, CA
Jeffrey Spero
DanzGypsy wrote:
>
> ...I'm all in favor of having a separate, Contra dance celebration,
> reception for your contra dancing friends, and what members of the wedding
> party and their families as may want to attend, on say the Saturday night
> before a Sunday wedding. (that's worked well in the past)
Three months ago today, Gigi and I married. We had the wedding in the
afternoon, and later in the evening we hosted a contradance. A small
percentage of the wedding guests who were not contradancers showed up,
and they mingled quite nicely with the contradance community at large.
Although it certainly was a long day for us, it was well worth it. From
everything I hear, our dance was something quite special (Gigi and I
were too tired to notice!).
Jeffrey Spero
Santa Monica, CA
Eric Praetzel
In article <5olgdj$6a5$1...@nadine.teleport.com> Nancy K. Martin <mar...@teleport.com> writes:
>Tom Short <tsh...@zip.com.au> wrote:
>: I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
>: to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
>or sizable minority, of the folks are contra dancers.
Sigh, guess I'd agree with that.
I'd be tempted to have a fri. night & all sat. event with Wild Asparagus
or something like that! :)
Just make it a real event and open it to the dance community as a
dance weekend. Something would have to be done to limit the numbers
though.
That or a renaissance event with costumes and live music.
Or an 1800's entrance of a line of men, headed by the groom, and a
line of women ..., that spiral around the room and each other, form
couples and line up for the ceremony. The dance ceremony that is.
Most people don't dance; don't want to dance and don't want to watch
it. Just tell them that you eloped and only invite dancers to the
ceremony :)
The only half decent wedding I've been to so far (dance wise) was a
German one. They had some real waltz and polka music. If I hear
Chubby Checker one more time I'm going to slip left out the door.
My observation has been that very few people dance. Once people
start getting drunk they are more easily dragged out onto the floor;
but that doesn't do anything for me.
>I have attended many wedding dances as a musician and have yet
>to witness a contra-oriented wedding dance that was as much fun as a
>contra-free dance when the people are not dancers.
But how many of those people had fun dancing? Did any of them dance?
>Contras are just complex enough, and teaching dependent enough, to be an
>imposition upon rather than an enhancement of a wedding party. The focus
Also considering that social dancers are known to get a bit sweaty
while dancing; I could just imagine calling a contra for people in
full dress attire!
Then again I've been know to renaissance dance with a good 3 layers
of fabric covering most of me. Yes that was in 90+F August heat.
>wedding gig should be on the married couple's celebration, not on the dance.
And if they both like to dance? :)
Frankly; I couldn't care less what everyone else wants. I could be
talked into a 2 full day dance event as the prelude to some sort of
ceremony :) The hard part would be choosing what type of dance and
what century.
The dances should serve to bring together and mix up the two
>opposing groups at the wedding.
Curious. I assume that you mean the two families? I'd never though
of anything that way. Then again a family reunion for me means
seeing 6 people around a supper table. At my sisters wedding our
side was handily outnumbered by a factor of 20 or more.
I'd view the whole thing as more of a mixer for everyone since I
can't image one family or the other getting together often.
My impression has been that the "mixing" that occures between the
families usually involves a lot of alcohol; lots of promises and
little action.
About the only social function that a wedding could do would be to
introduce single people to each other; well the only function left.
I don't think that mundanes (in the SCA we call ordinary people
who can't relate to us, mundanes) can relate to dancers. Most people
are not used to participatory activities. They make their kids do
it; but they don't do it themselves. That or they may do it as a
bonding thru pain sort of ritual.
Split the wedding. Have a dance event for the dancers and some sort
of compromise for everyone else. Just do that after the dance so
that you can rest your feet at the same time :)
Eric Praetzel, http://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
I post; there spammed I am!
Bill Tomczak
Tom Short wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
>to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
>anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
>wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
I don't know anything about historical ties. However, having played
for probably more than a hundred weddings of many sorts (orthodox
jewish, straight-laced high-Catholic, contra-dancers, non-dancers of
any sort and everything in between) there is only one truly
consistently useful theme that I have seen.
Be flexible.
There are a number of posts in this thread talking about various
wedding crowds and offering their advice to not do a contra dance at a
wedding for non-dancers.
How odd. I just played for a wedding this weekend in which, aside from
the groom, I don't know that anyone else had ever even heard of contra
dancing. There was a rough moment when we wondered if having a caller
at this particular wedding was a good idea. As it turned out,
well-chosen and well-timed dances ended up getting most of the crowd
up and loving it and asking for more.
The key is being attuned to the needs of the crowd from moment to
moment and not getting invested in an agenda that in any way
interferes with the needs of the couple getting married and the people
with whom they have chosen to share their special day.
You want a contra dance at your wedding? Put all the raw materials in
place. Hire a band. If it's going to be a crowd with a significant
number of seasoned contra dancers, take the risk and hire a caller.
And if there is any possibility that the wedding turns out not to
include dancing, make sure it's a caller who won't be too perturbed if
a dance doesn't happen. (And make sure it doesn't perturb you as well)
No or few dancers being invited? Don't push it too hard. But if there
is the slightest possibility of a dance happening, ideally you should
hire a band in which one member is fluent enough to call a handful of
fun dances. Don't be bummed that you won't be able to do your favorite
"interesting" contra. Enjoy the fact that the people there are having
a good time doing something akin to what contra dances could be (and
are in some places) and may get them out to your local regular dances
to enjoy them as well.
This last wedding I did, the groom decided one week before the wedding
that he really wanted to have a contra dance happen. No one in the
band was willing or able to do the duty. We were able to hire a local
caller who was able to come just for an hour or so. We called her up
about half an hour before dancing looked like a possibility. When she
arrived, there was still no guarantee that it would happen (one of my
worst nightmares is being at a wedding and having a caller pleading
desparately to get people up and dancing - I've been there! Yuck!). As
events transpired a few people who were already on the dance floor
(from the couple's waltz) were interested enough to just try it. That
was all we needed to get things rolling. We started with a simple, fun
circle dance to start. People had such a good time that we ended up
almost not having enough dance floor space.
Personally - I would drop the idea of trying to create a theme as you
have described it. It might be fine, but this is the kind of thing I
find myself discouraging couples from when they have called to hire
me. Be really sure that the people you are inviting will be into it.
And be brutally honest with yourself about this. Between them, the
bride and groom know every single person coming to the party. They
must assess what will constitute a good time for that mix of people.
There are no simple answers.
This philosophy and careful discussion with the groom and/or bride has
helped me completely avoid personally booking some of the weddings
that friends have told me about. Where whole tables of people have
threatened to walk out because of the music.
And that brings up my last thought for the day. I won't do a wedding
if it's really clear that I'm not the right person for the job. I will
recommend someone else who I think might be a better fit. I find it
extremely painful to be in a situation where I feel like what I have
to offer isn't appreciated. Painful because the crowd isn't getting
what it really wants. Which ends up making me feel like what I do is
worthless. In short, make sure you find your crowd and let other
musicians/callers play for everyone else.
It wasn't a wedding and I didn't book the gig, but I once played with
a Klezmer band for a party in Boston and found myself fending off
requests for things like Michael Jackson's "Thriller" all night. Now,
maybe another band consisting of violin (or was it a flute? I'm
getting half-heimers), accordion, clarinet and bass would be willing
make a stab at this on the fly. I'm not. And I most of the band felt
pretty much the same as me. Actually, the bass player on that gig was
pretty adamant about wanting us to try. I don't play with that band
anymore.
Bill
__________________________________
Bill Tomczak <btom...@sover.net>
http://www.sover.net/~btomczak/
Nobody is so good that people want to hear them all the time.
-- Garrison Keillor
Bill Tomczak
Nancy K. Martin
Eric Praetzel <prae...@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
: Most people don't dance; don't want to dance and don't want to watch
: My observation has been that very few people dance. Once people
: I don't think that mundanes (in the SCA we call ordinary people
: who can't relate to us, mundanes) can relate to dancers. Most people
: are not used to participatory activities. They make their kids do
rz
**
Nancy K. Martin
(Sorry about that previous post. Yuk! What key did I hit, anyway?)
Eric, if the caller identifies with the "mundanes", a wedding dance can be
a superbly inclusive event, even if the dances are contras or renaissance.
At a wedding dance, the caller is there to help people break the ice. The
caller has to become the "life of the party", even wear a lampshade on his
head! What ever it takes to give people permission to cut loose and be
spontaneous. The dances themselves are but tools, the party is what
rules. Once I got that hammered into my brain by some disastrous one-n
ight-stands, I began to see entire parties get up and dance, gleefully and
willingly.
Keep it simple, make it move, keep it mixing , make them laugh. Forget
what you, as a dancer or teacher, are passionately excited about. How many
times have I seen callers squander good will by laboriously teaching the
buzz-step swing or the hey. For God 's sake, I remember one caller who
taught the tango just after he had led a successful dance that involved a
lot of the wedding party. As he concentrated on the two couples who showed
a little interest, the rest of the dancers drifted off the floor to con
tinue the celebration elswhere. The dancing quickly became irrelevant,
even a nuisance, and never recovered.
At each of the last ten or twelve wedding dances that I have called, at
least 75 percent of the people danced - sometimes everyone in sight took
part. My band and I have done gigs where we've had to tell the dancers to
stop so we could pack up and hightai l it. At none of the wedding dances I
have ever done were there more than five or six experienced dancers of any
stripe. How do you get non-dancers to shake a wicked hoof? Subdue the
caller's egotistical expectations and serve up a party (that's what a
dance is, right?) and let the good times roll!
Bill Martin
mar...@teleport.com
Beth Parkes
Square dancing, or barn dancing, is AWESOME at a wedding. People who would
never dream of dancing to any other kind of music will get up and have a
good time. And, yes, dancing is traditional at weddings. Go back far
enough and this was just dancing: the popular amusment of the day and what
one did at social events.
The very best advice: make sure you get the most experienced caller you
can. Make sure that this caller has done many "private party" dances. (You
know, those events where no one is a dancer.) Get references from someone
they did this kind of event for. A caller who has only called for the
contra mafia, or for an experienced-only crowd of any sort, will not do a
good job. I know, I've been there. One of my worst gig stories was at a
post-wedding party (about 15 years ago).
All experienced callers have had to pay our dues. No one gets this kind of
experience without doing it badly at first. But it doesn't have to be at
_your_ wedding.
Beth (if I lived in Wisconsin, I'd be glad to do your wedding) Parkes
Paul M. Gifford
>I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
>to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
>anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
>wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
Not that history should matter to having dancing at your wedding, but I guess
I'll take a stab and the "historical ties" part of your question.
Dancing at weddings, of course, is common to many cultures. However, it seems
that Puritanism wiped it out in Anglo-America for the most part, except among
the wealthy. More recently the ban has declined. Immigrants from Europe
danced at weddings, and of course Wisconsin had lots of immigrants. I once
talked to a guy whose family orchestra in central Wisconsin in the early part
of this century played at a lot of weddings. They were German, but played
square dance music. So there you have it.
Paul Gifford
plab...@epix.net
> I'm planning an autumn wedding in Wisconsin, and thought it would be fun
> to have the reception themed around a traditional barn dance. Does
> anyone know whether contra/square dancing has any historical ties to the
> wedding reception? Or is it a complete faux pas?
>
>
Tom,
My server was down this week, so I'm getting in late here, but I'll
echo what several have said. Wedding reception barn dances can be
incredibly fun. There are, however, a few potential pitfalls to
be aware of. Foremost of these would be demon rum. I've found that the level
of dancer ineptitude directly correlates to alcohol consumption.
At weddings where the booze flows freely, I end up doing the simplest dances
later in the festivities. As most of my dances are fairly simple-minded,
this is not a problem. Then, there is the occasional drunken heckler who
finds the simplest dance to be too hard and wrecks havoc in the square.
That said, I still enjoy wedding dances for their ability to loosen up the
crowd and get the families mingling. I like watching the interactions and
trying to fit in with the flow of the reception. Always be ready to
change gears and cut to the cake cutting ceremony. When getting a band, make
sure they can throw in a few waltzes, a polka and two-step for variety.
Most of the time, I'd say two sets of dances will cover it, unless you've
got a bunch of experienced dancers as friends/relatives.
Speaking of historical precedent, I'm doing a wedding reception next weekend
that is definitely not part of a cultural tradition. It's for a young
couple who are part of an old order Mennonite church. They said that their
parents wouldn't dance, but their younger friends will. I have visions
of stern elders dressed in black with their arms crossed, shaking their
heads as the devil's box sends out its sinful syncopations.
Other favorite weddings include a group of civil war reenactors
where the best man got drunk, tripped and fell into the wedding cake.
At least he wasn't impaled on a bayonet.
The wedding of a wealthy DuPont, where two rucksacks filled with
fried chicken and bottles of champagne somehow found their way
back to the Brandywine festival for midnight campground consumption
after the job.
A wedding on a ferry off Long Island where the motion of the boat combined
with the dancing motion and resulted in severe stomach turbulance for
several celebrants.
Remember that musicians and callers are fond of cash and don't mind
a reminder the week of the wedding to confirm details.
I know some musicians in Madison if you're looking for a band.
Regards,
Pete LaBerge
Brian Wilkinson
I have to agree - it is up to the caller to get folk up and dancing - they
always enjoy it once they are up!
Nancy K. Martin <mar...@teleport.com> wrote in article
<5ot5o1$j1e$1...@nadine.teleport.com>...
Peter Y
I have played and called a quite a few weddings. The only time people
haven't enjoyed it was when the caller didn't take into account the level
of the dancers. If the caller insists on calling regular contras for a
crowd containing few experienced dancers, there will be an inordinate
amount of teaching necessary, and people will think it's too complicated.
On the other hand if the caller uses simpler dances (circles, simple
squares, and whole-set longways dances), it's pretty easy to get them
dancing (rather than walking through) almost immediately, and everyone has
a good time. If you use good judgement nearly everyone should be able to
dance and enjoy it; although that doesn't mean everyone will want to
dance.
I also find it helpful to keep in mind that they're there for a wedding,
not for a dance. Most people who haven't danced before (and many who have)
only want to dance one to three dances in a wedding setting. After all
they have friends and family to visit and good food to eat! I used to be
concerned that I wasn't doing my job if they didn't dance enough. However,
now I understand that the amount doesn't matter; they'll have great
memories of the one or two dances they did and not miss the ones they
didn't do.
The only time this may not apply is at weddings where most of the guests
are dancers, and where dancing is a major focus of the reception. In those
cases, of course, one should use one's judgement; although I still think
at least the first couple dances should include everyone; after the
nondancers drop out you can do something for the more hard-core crowd.
Unfortunately many callers only know how to call contras, so they really
aren't prepared to call in other situations. There are numerous good
sources of more appropriate dances for these situations, such as the
Community Dance Manuals, Dudley Laufman's recent publication on whole-set
dances, etc. Many of them are available from CDSS and other sources.
Peter Yarensky
Nancy Mamlin
There are, however, a few potential pitfalls to
>be aware of. Foremost of these would be demon rum. I've found that the level
>of dancer ineptitude directly correlates to alcohol consumption.
I agree with that- of course, with more dancing there may be less drinking-
unless those two activities did not start at the same time.
It also reminds me of a calling workshop I took years ago from John Krumm-
(gosh, did I spell his name right?)... "Calling for Weddings, Drunks, and
Children."
>Speaking of historical precedent, I'm doing a wedding reception next weekend
>that is definitely not part of a cultural tradition. It's for a young
>couple who are part of an old order Mennonite church.
A cross-cultural experience I had a year or two ago was calling for a bar
mitzvah celebration in DC. (I first made damn sure it was the honoree's idea
and not some nutty adult's way to torture their teenager.) I called, and Chris
Romaine, Bruce Hutton, and John Beam played the music. They even puled off a
decent OT version of Have Negilah. (again- my spelling has gone out of my
head- sorry)
See you around,
Nancy Mamlin
Cornelius Ryan
Hi,
This is Manny Schwam, using Neil's newsgroup reader.
My wife and I had our wedding at a contra dance. You're talking about
a contra dance at a wedding, which may be almost the same thing.
Back in 1987 Diane and I had our New York wedding (we had our first
wedding about a month earlier in Madison, Wisconsin). We tied our New
York wedding in with the weekly contra dance in Duane Hall. We
scheduled the ceremony about an hour before the dance began, and made
arrangements with the band to play at the wedding. We invited
"personal guests" to the wedding and paid for them to attend the
dance. We also extended an "open invitation" to the regular dancers
by announcing the wedding at the regular dances over the two weeks
before the wedding. All regular dancers who came to the wedding
understood that they were responsible for their own admission to the
dance that night. About 20 regular dancers showed up for the wedding.
It turned out fine. The band was happy to play for the wedding, even
though we had not made any formal arrangements with them concerning
reimbursement. Of course, we paid them. GO FOR IT!
Tom and Myra
Just adding our two cents to the contradance/wedding discussions. We had
a dance at our wedding, just about a year ago. Since we met at a dance
camp, conducted most of our long-distance courtship at dance camps and
weekends, and got engaged at a dance weekend, we coudn't have skipped
having a dance wedding!
The guests were about half contradance addicts, and half absolute
beginners. Yet everyone had a terrific time. The caller, Eldon Cooper,
called some very user-friendly contras, interspersed with couple dances
and waltzes, and the band, Murphy's Law, played a hora that got everyone
up and dancing, even the majority who had never danced (or heard of) a
hora in their lives. We didn't fuss about who was dancing or worry about
how many sets we had - lots of people just watched and chatted, but we
had two decent-sized sets going. The wedding took place at a camp, for a
weekend, and there was lots going on during the dance, including a
campfire for the kids (although some of them decided to try contra
dancing) and food and drink for those who wanted to sit out.
We highly recommend having dancing at a wedding. We do suggest having a
beginner-oriented caller, not having the dancing last longer than people
are interested (ours went around an hour and a half), having the kind of
dancer friends who enjoy dancing with non-dancers, and, finally. being
comfortable with easy, and even goofy, dances.
Good luck!
Nancy Mamlin
In article <33c008c5...@snews2.zippo.com>, neil...@radix.net (Cornelius Ryan) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This is Manny Schwam, using Neil's newsgroup reader.
>
>My wife and I had our wedding at a contra dance. You're talking about
>a contra dance at a wedding, which may be almost the same thing.
No, I don't think those are the same thing at all. One event is attended by
people coming to a wedding/party (where a dance happens) and the other is
attended by people coming to a dance (where a wedding happens). Most of the
general public has attended weddings. Most have not attended dances.
Still, no reason not to expose folks. Just keep in mind, as others have said,
that dancing is generally a secondary consideration at such events. It was
even secondary at mine, which was primarily attended by musicians/dancers.
Cheers,
Nancy