D**ned Beginners

mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu

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Jun 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/18/96

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Here are some of the problems that beginners face that I try to address in my
workshops.

1) Giving weight Noone told ME about giving wt for the first 60 or
70 dances I went to, and this is NOT an exaggeration. That is
why I teach beginners workshops.

2) There is a correct time for moves to start. I don't think that
at the end of a workshop that a complete beginner will know exactly
WHEN the correct time is to start moves is, but they will have an idea
that there *IS* a correct time. Having that idea will put them
in a class above many of the dancers in my neighborhood.

3) Changing partners/WOOSH factor. Many a beginner has left because they
"can't find a partner".

Beginners are accustomed to the standard social dance model of "look
around the room and pick the person you would most
like to dance with and GRADUALLY approach them". This is the
appropriate way to do things at a bar, a party, a "singles"
dance, etc, but remarkably ineffective at contra dancing. Also
translates into paralysis when asked to dance.

4) Learning to balance and swing. The other moves (with the possible
exception of contra corners) are picked up quickly (if not easily)
by everyone.

5) Knowing that it is O.K. to say "no" to someone you do not want to
dance with. Say it quickly.

6) Knowing NOT to sit in a corner, hoping someone will pass all the
hopeful, expectant people on the floor to ask you to dance. (this
goes with #3: at a party, this can be an excellent strategy; at
a contra, it doesn't work)

7) A pet peeve of mine: if you are a woman beginner struggling with
assertiveness issues, don't try to work it out by asking an 8 year
old girl who needs guidance to dance. The man's part is (at least
a little) different from the woman's. The first time you do it you
want to dance with an experienced woman (uh, I guess this goes for
men, too).

8) More TWIRLS are most definately *** NOT *** more advanced dancing or
better dancing.

9) Start dancing early in the evening. Do not sit and watch the
first few dances before deciding to join in.

10) Do not stop being highly responsive to the dancers around you once
you have "learned the moves".

11) Be gentle.

The order of these in no way represents the importance.

Most of these can be conveyed quickly and effectively in a workshop. For
some of these, the first impression (from MY community, at least), will be
exactly wrong (for example #5 and #8).

Michael Young
Pittsburgh, PA

Jonathan Sivier

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Jun 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/18/96

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mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:

>Here are some of the problems that beginners face that I try to address in my
>workshops.

> 2) There is a correct time for moves to start. I don't think that

> at the end of a workshop that a complete beginner will know exactly
> WHEN the correct time is to start moves is, but they will have an
> idea that there *IS* a correct time. Having that idea will put them
> in a class above many of the dancers in my neighborhood.

A related issue that I attempt to address when giving the quick intro prior
to the dance is the length of the figures, the music and how they go together.
When I started contra dancing no one mentioned to me that the dance and the
tune were both 64 beat long and went together. I was at first unable to hear
the phrasing and so counted to myself. I quickly figured out that most
figures were 8 counts long and so I knew when I got to 8 it was time to do the
next figure. After a while I was able to hear the phrases in the music and
it also dawned on me that all the dances had the same number of beats in them.
I try to mention some of this and play some sample music if possible, pointing
out the phrases, and tell the beginners that it's OK to count (to themselves)
at first until they get comfortable with the phrasing and length of figures.

> 4) Learning to balance and swing. The other moves (with the possible
> exception of contra corners) are picked up quickly (if not easily)
> by everyone.

Also the swing is the most common figure. Almost all dances have a swing,
but not all dances have a dosido or allemande, etc.

[many other good points clipped]

Jonathan

Tim

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Jun 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/18/96

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>

> 5) Knowing that it is O.K. to say "no" to someone you do not want to dance with. Say it quickly.
>

>Michael,

About the "saying no" to someone you do not want to dance with.....
Could you go into more detail on that subject? As I see it, you will end
up dancing at least part of the time with everyone who is dancing. So it
seems strange to say 'no' to someone if you want dance.

I guess I should explain that I teach children to dance, so maybe the
circumstances are different, but I do not think so. D2Z "die Susi"

mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu

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Jun 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/19/96

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I could go on about assertiveness issues in (and out ) of the dance community
for HOURS, but here is a short version.

As far as the process of asking or being asked to dance there are four basic
activities.

1) Asking someone to dance

2) accepting invitations

3) declining invitations

4) being declined.

Now all of these things are situations which happen in the real world as well,
so the dance community is often a good, safe place to develope these social
skills.

Many new dancers (particularly women) have a very difficult time with #1,
asking people that they want to dance with. Since there is almost always an
excess of men in our community, they can and do get by without asking people. T
his also eliminates the need for dealing with being declined.

If they are convinced that they must say 'yes' all the time that severely
limits the scope of their responses, the four kinds of interactions I have
listed become only one: accepting invitations. The rich social interactions of
invitation and response gets reduced to a "random mix" kind of situation. This
can have its merits, but I think it would take away from the contra scene.

Also, on the practical side, in my community many of the experienced women
are quite able and willing to turn down the less favored dancers, and often for
good reasons. Most of the experienced women WILL sometimes dance with these less
favored partners, some of the time, but also turn them down some too.

An attractive woman with a bit of physical grace will gather ALL of these guys
as her "very special partners", if she doesn't know that it is O.K. to turn
them down once and a while. It is my impression that women who never say "no"
almost never ask people to dance and leave the dance community.

There certainly are women that I am attracted to in the community. One way I
can let them know is to ask them to dance EVERY chance I get. I am quite sure
that many of the people who read and write on this bulletin board are in solid,
long-term relationships and marraiages and such that started exactly that way.

If someone I'm attracted to turns me down (even a fraction of the time), I
will get an idea that they don't find the attraction mutual. Saying "no" to
dance requests is a pretty nice, honest, gentle way to get that accross.

If you felt that you couldn't say "no", and 5 or 6 of the geekiest guys in the
community made a point of dancing with you any chance they got, would you stick
around long??

I like the idea of chosing partners. I think that thoses choices are one of the
things that strengthen the community. All other things being equal, I think
that it is much, MUCH better to foster choice by actively asking the people you
want to dance with to dance (and I, myself, do NOT turn down women who ask ME
to dance), but failing this (and most beginning women do have a very hard time
asking partners), saying "no" is O.K. and it is important for the beginners to
know that.

Michael Young
Pittsburgh, PA

mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu

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Jun 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/19/96

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In article <31C77F...@mail.arc.net>, Tim <the...@mail.arc.net> writes:
>>
>
>> 5) Knowing that it is O.K. to say "no" to someone you do not want to dance with. Say it quickly.
>>
>>Michael,
>
> About the "saying no" to someone you do not want to dance with.....
> Could you go into more detail on that subject? As I see it, you will end
> up dancing at least part of the time with everyone who is dancing. So it
> seems strange to say 'no' to someone if you want dance.
>
> I guess I should explain that I teach children to dance, so maybe the
> circumstances are different, but I do not think so. D2Z "die Susi"

I could go on about assertiveness issues in (and out ) of the dance community
for HOURS, but here is a short version.

As far as the process of asking or being asked to dance there are four basic
activities.

1) Asking someone to dance

2) accepting invitations

3) declining invitations

4) being declined.

Now all of these things are situations which happen in the real world as well,
so the dance community is often a good, safe place to develope these social
skills.

Many new dancers (particularly women) have a very difficult time with #1,
asking people that they want to dance with. Since there is almost always an
excess of men in our community, they can and do get by without asking people.

This also eliminates the need for dealing with being declined.

If they are convinced that they must say 'yes' all the time that severely
limits the scope of their responses, the four kinds of interactions I have
listed become only one: accepting invitations. The rich social interactions of
invitation and response gets reduced to a "random mix" kind of situation. This
can have its merits, but I think it would take away from the contra scene.

Also, on the practical side, in my community many of the experienced women
are quite able and willing to turn down the less favored dancers, and often for
good reasons. Most of the experienced women WILL sometimes dance with these
less favored partners, some of the time, but also turn them down some too.

An attractive woman with a bit of physical grace will gather ALL of these guys
as her "very special partners", if she doesn't know that it is O.K. to turn
them down once and a while. It is my impression that women who never say "no"

are people who almost never ask other people to dance. They also leave the
dance community.

If you felt you couldn't say "no", and 5 or 6 of the geekiest guys in the dance
community made a point of always asking you, would you stick around long?

On the other hand, the persistant dance requests I am talking about are in NO
way inappropriate. They are just a person asking someone they like to dance.

There certainly are women that I am attracted to in the community. One way I
can let them know is to ask them to dance EVERY chance I get. I am quite sure
that many of the people who read and write on this bulletin board are in solid,

long-term relationships and marraiages and such that started EXACTLY that way.
So, I couldn't condemn anyone for always seeking a person that they are drawn to
for some reason.

If someone I'm attracted to turns me down (even a fraction of the time), I
will get an idea that they don't find the attraction mutual. Saying "no" to

dance requests is a nice, honest, gentle way to get that accross.

I think that this process is a pretty integral part of the community.

I like the idea of chosing partners. I think that thoses choices are one of the
things that strengthen the community. All other things being equal, I think
that it is much, MUCH better to foster choice by actively asking the people you
want to dance with to dance (and I, myself, do NOT turn down women who ask ME
to dance), but failing this (and most beginning women do have a very hard time
asking partners), saying "no" is O.K. and it is important for the beginners to
know that.

Michael Young
Pittsburgh, PA

Oh, gosh once I get started, I do babble on...

Melissa Weisshaus

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Jun 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/19/96

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In article <4q6pac$f...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
writes:

[lotsa stuff deleted, but i saved it; if you want a copy, email me.]

Thank you, Michael, for a beautifully written, highly informative
post. I think you really got to the heart of a lot of matters.

melissa

Richard Maurer

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Jun 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/20/96

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Michael wrote a great list. I notice that 6.5 of the 11 points are about acclimating
to the social context of a contra dance. These are some pointers that could take a
newbie 10 or 20 dances to figure out, but it is the first dance that is most
important. The social ones probably need only a few pithy sentences each, about 6
minutes interspersed within the session, giving people a chance to recover from
dizziness. I notice that the longer thread dealt little with the socials( no, not the
misplaced government thread).

I add from the earlier thread,
12. Know about typical contra dance eye contact.

and add to 2) know that to start a figure on time, you usually have to prepare your
body and modify the current figure 1 or 2 beats before the figures end.

Print out his list and hand it to your local workshop leader.

> Michael Young
> Pittsburgh, PA
> mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu