Marzog, King of Suppleness
Ocean of Nuance
Marzog was voted best dressage horse of the 20th century.
Checkout the last paragraph of the article for a rhetorical question.
sharon
Dawn J-L
wrote:
> http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/interview/oldies/marzog.html
>
> Marzog was voted best dressage horse of the 20th century.
>
> Checkout the last paragraph of the article for a rhetorical question.
>
> sharon
I really like him. Marzog is one of my favorites.
--Dawn
betsey
i remember a video where she stated that he was only very rarely
turned out, as he was too valuable a horse. I remember thinking then
"how sad". he was wonderful.
If you look at photos of Marzog and photos of dressage horses
today....I think Anne would have had to compromise herself and the
training to be competetive.
Dawn J-L
> On Nov 12, 3:35 pm, Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo...@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/interview/oldies/marzog.html
>
> > Marzog was voted best dressage horse of the 20th century.
>
> > Checkout the last paragraph of the article for a rhetorical question.
>
> > sharon
>
> i remember a video where she stated that he was only very rarely
> turned out, as he was too valuable a horse. I remember thinking then
> "how sad". he was wonderful.
I have always felt sad for horses who are not given turn-out. IIRC,
Marzog got more daily attention (several hours and hand walks in the
woods) than most stalled horses, but still. Personally, I believe
that no turnout is more likely to have bad consequences to the health
and well-being of a horse than appropriate (in terms of space,
terrain, and +/-companions) turn-out.
>
> If you look at photos of Marzog and photos of dressage horses
> today....I think Anne would have had to compromise herself and the
> training to be competetive.
Perhaps she would have elected to not compete as many riders currently
do rather than compromise their horsemanship.
In any case, they were a lovely pair.
--Dawn JL
Ocean of Nuance
> On Nov 12, 8:03 pm, betsey <twoxo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 12, 3:35 pm, Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo...@nc.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/interview/oldies/marzog.html
>>> Marzog was voted best dressage horse of the 20th century.
>>> Checkout the last paragraph of the article for a rhetorical question.
>>> sharon
>> i remember a video where she stated that he was only very rarely
>> turned out, as he was too valuable a horse. I remember thinking then
>> "how sad". he was wonderful.
>
> I have always felt sad for horses who are not given turn-out.
I feel sad for dressage horses that are made to do trail riding who
don't dig it despite concerted efforts from competent trainers to show
them how to dig it. :)
Food for thought.
sharon
Dawn J-L
wrote:
> Dawn J-L wrote:
> > On Nov 12, 8:03 pm, betsey <twoxo...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 12, 3:35 pm, Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo...@nc.rr.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/interview/oldies/marzog.html
> >>> Marzog was voted best dressage horse of the 20th century.
> >>> Checkout the last paragraph of the article for a rhetorical question.
> >>> sharon
> >> i remember a video where she stated that he was only very rarely
> >> turned out, as he was too valuable a horse. I remember thinking then
> >> "how sad". he was wonderful.
>
> > I have always felt sad for horses who are not given turn-out.
>
> I feel sad for dressage horses that are made to do trail riding who
> don't dig it despite concerted efforts from competent trainers to show
> them how to dig it. :)
>
> Food for thought.
>
> sharon
Maybe fox hunting (drag) would be more to the liking of such dressage
horses --particularly if they are draft X's. I know lots of draft X's
who enjoy fox hunting. ;-)
Dawn JL
Dawn J-L
horse. He'll be started under saddle next spring; I think he will be
fun to ride:
his normal "Gumby" trot:
http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-10C.jpg
sitting into a canter depart:
http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-44C.jpg
Dawn JL
Ocean of Nuance
Food for thought... but it may be just be another form of bullsh*t to
certain draft crosses. :)
sharon
Dawn J-L
wrote:
> Dawn J-L wrote:
I did once own a fine English TB who liked dressage so much that he
would sometimes do figures in the turnout paddock. He hacked
contentedly, but did not really like galloping cross country even
though he had been bred for steeplechasing. Ask him for an extended
trot or a half-pass and he was joyful; I loved riding that horse. He
also loved peppermints and butterscotch candies. Darn, he was a grand
horse.
--Dawn
Ocean of Nuance
Yes, yes, yes.
The verdict is in on "galloping in fields for the sake of galloping in
fields... it's bullsh*t.
Too exciting for mixed company apparently. :)
sharon
Hunter Hampton
<lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>I feel sad for dressage horses that are made to do trail riding who
>don't dig it despite concerted efforts from competent trainers to show
>them how to dig it. :)
I believe that horses enjoy trail riding, as long as the rider is
relaxed and letting them enjoy themselves.
Hunter
Ocean of Nuance
That's a fine believe.
I happen to have evidence to the contrary. So does my trainer.
I ride completely differently on trail. I ride on a looped rein because
he will go that way. He is very easy to ride on the seat alone on the
trail. Maybe that's why he doesn't dig it... no contact. Maybe he
would be better on contact on the trail. But then that defeats the
purpose of getting out of the arena.
sharon
Tara
news:b855ff54-303e-4664...@e23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
He's beautiful!
Tara
Ocean of Nuance
Also to add...
A screaming horse is not one that digs being on trail.
My trainer specifically worked on this behavior this last summer.
He does not dig being out there despite his riders not being nervous.
And thinking about it some more, I don't think it's my riding off
contact that makes him not like trail because I am almost certain my
trainer rides him on contact out there and basically continues the arena
training outside the arena.
I am not going to do that because it defeats my purpose for getting him
out on the trails. And this time on trails is not just shlepping around
with me... he is put on parole so to speak in the self carriage
department and given a chance to carry himself (over terrain) without
any help rebalancing. I think that's good for him and another reason to
ride him off contact on the trail. I monitor this over time.
sharon
betsey
>
> I am not going to do that because it defeats my purpose for getting him
> out on the trails. And this time on trails is not just shlepping around
> with me... he is put on parole so to speak in the self carriage
> department and given a chance to carry himself (over terrain) without
> any help rebalancing. I think that's good for him and another reason to
> ride him off contact on the trail. I monitor this over time.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
will he scream if you trail ride with another horse???
betsey
> his normal "Gumby" trot:http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-10C.jpg
>
> sitting into a canter depart:http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-44C.jpg
>
> Dawn JL
Dawn--
he's really REALLY lovely.
Betsey
Hunter Hampton
<lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>A screaming horse is not one that digs being on trail.
Have your trainer, or someone, ride with you.
Hunter
Ruth Baltopoulos
> A screaming horse is not one that digs being on trail.
A screaming horse is one that is herd bound, no? And crying out to his
buds?
> My trainer specifically worked on this behavior this last summer.
Did she always ride alone?
> He does not dig being out there despite his riders not being nervous.
Is it a matter of "digging it" or wanting to be with his mates?
> And thinking about it some more, I don't think it's my riding off
> contact that makes him not like trail because I am almost certain my
> trainer rides him on contact out there and basically continues the arena
> training outside the arena.
I doubt it has to do with on or off contact. From what you've offered,
it seems a simple case of a horse being out alone and wishing he
weren't. He's probably so focused on calling to his cohorts that he
isn't paying much mind to anything else.
I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
behavior. Thoughts on this?
--
Ruth B
Emily Brooks
"Ruth Baltopoulos" <rud...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oSdLm.173408$Ca6.1...@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
> behavior. Thoughts on this?
> --
> Ruth B
How do they do that? I've mostly had the screaming problem at shows, with
Spot, so I'm not likely to experience it any time soon.
Emily
betsey
>
> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
> behavior. Thoughts on this?
> --
> Ruth B
how does one correct that? is it a matter of saying "keep your
attention here"????
I wonder...if Pete's hollering and being ridden on a loose rein are
directly related...as in, he hollers cause he's lonely and wants to be
back home, and riding on a loose rein says "go ahead and do it" to
him....
so, if Pete (or any other horse) were ridden OUT with FOCUS...would he
then focus...then give gradual bits of loose rein......
i'm interested to hear more from Sharon on this....
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Ruth B wrote:
>> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
>> behavior. Thoughts on this?
> how does one correct that? is it a matter of saying "keep your
> attention here"????
I've heard everything from give them a boot every time they yell (or
toss their head) to make them work and focus on what you're asking
rather than what they're worried about.
> I wonder...if Pete's hollering and being ridden on a loose rein are
> directly related...as in, he hollers cause he's lonely and wants to be
> back home, and riding on a loose rein says "go ahead and do it" to
> him....
Interesting. Could be that if he's just moseying along on a loose rein
and feels no "direction", his inclination is to express the fact that
he's missing the gang.
> so, if Pete (or any other horse) were ridden OUT with FOCUS...would he
> then focus...then give gradual bits of loose rein......
I don't trail ride on a completely loose rein. If I am asking for
different levels of trot/canter, I will use the same sort of contact
that I would any other time. Probably more periods of long, loopy
walking on a draped rein, but I don't just throw it away because I'm on
a trailride :)
> i'm interested to hear more from Sharon on this....
Yep.
--
Ruth B
AKogler
I do not do not do not ever allow screaming in my presence. Period.
End of story.
If I am leading the horse, or they are in cross ties, or whatever..if
I am on the ground, they get loudly verbally scolded and asked to
back, turn, whatever. As soon as they relax and give me their
attention they got a treat, or lots of verbal praise, and a loose
leadrope again.
If I am riding, they get the loud verbal reprimand and the 'lets work
now!' with lots of turning or leg yield or whatever works at the time.
The second I have their attention it is quiet again. The second they
think about thier friends they 'work'.
Screaming to friends shows a basic lack of respect for the handler
whether on the ground or riding. The way I look at horses, if I am in
their presence, it is *me* that they need to paying attention to. With
their body language, with their eye, with their attention. If they are
screaming for their buddies it means they do not have confidence in
*me*.
That has to be gained with good training and attitude. Once you get
that, and it doesnt take long, there will be no screaming. It is rude,
annoying, and the lack of focus is potentially dangerous.
Abby
Ruth Baltopoulos
> I do not do not do not ever allow screaming in my presence. Period.
> End of story. [...]
> Screaming to friends shows a basic lack of respect for the handler
> whether on the ground or riding. The way I look at horses, if I am in
> their presence, it is *me* that they need to paying attention to. With
> their body language, with their eye, with their attention. If they are
> screaming for their buddies it means they do not have confidence in
> *me*.
> That has to be gained with good training and attitude. Once you get
> that, and it doesnt take long, there will be no screaming. It is rude,
> annoying, and the lack of focus is potentially dangerous.
Good post, Abby.
--
Ruth B
betsey
> > That has to be gained with good training and attitude. Once you get
> > that, and it doesnt take long, there will be no screaming. It is rude,
> > annoying, and the lack of focus is potentially dangerous.
>
> Good post, Abby.
> --
> Ruth B
Ditto on that!
Cricket
"Ruth Baltopoulos" <rud...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oSdLm.173408$Ca6.1...@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
I don't let Jack holler - he needs to be worrying about me, not anybody
else. And if he does, I figure it means we don't go out alone nearly
enough.
The pink mare has never made a sound, and she's so competetive she's
actually better alone - so I'm trying to find more people to ride with.
Cricket
Cricket
"Emily Brooks" <sun...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7m5cfgF...@mid.individual.net...
"Hey, asshole!" works with Jack... ;>) And "Focus!" Half the people I ride
with have heard "Focus!" for one thing or another. He'll holler even if
he's with other horse - he has delusions of herd stallion-hood (despite
being gelded at six months...there was an excellent reason for that) and
yells if anyone leaves (or used to, he's pretty much given up unless I
haven't had him out in a while and some alluring female is involved).
Cricket
Cricket
"AKogler" <ako...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:20737a67-b730-48c3...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Abby
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I have a whole lecture - "Hey! Pay attention! I am God and all the little
angels to you right now! There *ain't* nobody else!"
Cracks me up when I hear a customer use it later...
Cricket
Bill Kambic
Jill
>
> I have a whole lecture - "Hey! Pay attention! I am God and all the
> little angels to you right now! There *ain't* nobody else!"
>
> Cracks me up when I hear a customer use it later...
>
When can you get it up on YouTube -- THAT would be well worth watching
!!!<G>
--
regards
Jill Bowis
www.kintaline.co.uk - where we are, what we do: Kintaline Plant and Poultry
Centre
Cricket
" Jill" <ne...@NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7m5f6rF...@mid.individual.net...
LOL! One of these days I'll have to get someone to video me discussion
etiquette with Jock, the enormous Percheron stallion. I've been told it's
funny to watch, because basically I'm lecturing...oh, an area near the
bottom of his chest... ;>)
Cricket
Ocean of Nuance
I take him out alone.
I will have to ask my trainer if he will scream with another horse
because I know she has gone out in company with him.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
He doesn't scream with me because the property here is all within his
non-screaming zone.
He screams when my trainer has him and takes him further.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
> Ocean of Nuance wrote:
>
>> A screaming horse is not one that digs being on trail.
>
> A screaming horse is one that is herd bound, no? And crying out to his
> buds?
As far as I know. My trainer was working with him on it.
>> My trainer specifically worked on this behavior this last summer.
>
> Did she always ride alone?
No.
>> He does not dig being out there despite his riders not being nervous.
>
> Is it a matter of "digging it" or wanting to be with his mates?
Same bottom line, no?
>> And thinking about it some more, I don't think it's my riding off
>> contact that makes him not like trail because I am almost certain my
>> trainer rides him on contact out there and basically continues the
>> arena training outside the arena.
>
> I doubt it has to do with on or off contact. From what you've offered,
> it seems a simple case of a horse being out alone and wishing he
> weren't. He's probably so focused on calling to his cohorts that he
> isn't paying much mind to anything else.
>
> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
> behavior. Thoughts on this?
I can't produce the behavior as the property her is too small, not that
I could fix it anyway.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
I can't produce the hollering at this barn because the property is too
small. All the trails/hills are within his no-scream zone. My trainer
reported that he hollers when she had him this summer when I was out of
pocket. She has way more land.
I am 1,000% certain he would holler with me also if I rode him that far
away.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
> betsey wrote:
>
> > Ruth B wrote:
>
>>> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
>>> behavior. Thoughts on this?
>
>> how does one correct that? is it a matter of saying "keep your
>> attention here"????
>
> I've heard everything from give them a boot every time they yell (or
> toss their head) to make them work and focus on what you're asking
> rather than what they're worried about.
>
>> I wonder...if Pete's hollering and being ridden on a loose rein are
>> directly related...as in, he hollers cause he's lonely and wants to be
>> back home, and riding on a loose rein says "go ahead and do it" to
>> him....
>
> Interesting. Could be that if he's just moseying along on a loose rein
> and feels no "direction", his inclination is to express the fact that
> he's missing the gang.
No he has direction. I pick the trails, the directions, etc. He
doesn't chose things like that.
>> so, if Pete (or any other horse) were ridden OUT with FOCUS...would he
>> then focus...then give gradual bits of loose rein......
>
> I don't trail ride on a completely loose rein. If I am asking for
> different levels of trot/canter, I will use the same sort of contact
> that I would any other time. Probably more periods of long, loopy
> walking on a draped rein, but I don't just throw it away because I'm on
> a trailride :)
>
>> i'm interested to hear more from Sharon on this....
>
> Yep.
I see trail riding as a time to be off contact.
sharon
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:
>> Is it a matter of "digging it" or wanting to be with his mates?
> Same bottom line, no?
No. Your statement implied that the horse doesn't care for trailriding.
That's different than screaming and hollering for friends, which is a
herd bound behavior that can be addressed.
>> I know of folks that don't allow their horse to holler and correct the
>> behavior. Thoughts on this?
> I can't produce the behavior as the property her is too small, not that
> I could fix it anyway.
Why would you feel it cannot be fixed? Particularly after some of the
insightful posts addressing just that?
--
Ruth B
Ocean of Nuance
> Ocean of Nuance wrote:
>
>> Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:
>
>>> Is it a matter of "digging it" or wanting to be with his mates?
>
>> Same bottom line, no?
>
> No. Your statement implied that the horse doesn't care for trailriding.
> That's different than screaming and hollering for friends, which is a
> herd bound behavior that can be addressed.
Well if he is herd-bound then he won't dig trail riding away from the
herd, yes? How is the bottom line different? He either likes to go out
away from the barn or he doesn't for whatever reason.
He may be better now going very far away. I know my trainer worked with
him this summer.
sharon
betsey
>
> I see trail riding as a time to be off contact.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I understand that. but perhaps contact is a source of security for
him.
I just finished reading Mark Rashid's "whole heart, whole horse".
it's actually a GREAT book (thank you Nancy!)...and it's not all
touchy feely. he's pretty reality based. but one thing he said did
strike a chord with me....and i am paraphrasing badly...but that
consistency is the key. if you ride the horse one way in the ring,
and another way outside of the ring, or at a show, or in a different
situation...you aren't really providing the needed consistency. and
consistency is needed before softness can occur. the horse thrives on
consistency.
i'm not suggesting that you, or anyone, is not consistent. but the
chapter did strike a chord with me, and has caused me to review my own
riding habits and what i need to work on.
Ocean of Nuance
Well that's a good point.
As I said, I am petty sure my trainer rides him on trails exactly like
she rides him in the arena. So that's the same yet he will scream.
I definitely don't ride the same in arena and on trails as the purpose
of each is different in my mind.
With me, he doesn't scream but he will try to rush. That is the
opposite of what I want on trails. Moreover, he is never allowed to
rush in the arena so I am not going to even let him think he can do that
on trails. I ask him to just stand (on a loose rein) at times and that
is hard. I think my trainer works on that with him also on the trails
but I would have to ask.
sharon
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Sharon wrote:
>> I see trail riding as a time to be off contact.
> I understand that. but perhaps contact is a source of security for
> him.
>
> I just finished reading Mark Rashid's "whole heart, whole horse".
> it's actually a GREAT book (thank you Nancy!)...and it's not all
> touchy feely. he's pretty reality based. but one thing he said did
> strike a chord with me....and i am paraphrasing badly...but that
> consistency is the key. [...]
Which makes sense.
When I walk out of the ring and hack around my property or out onto the
trails, I don't make a decision to loop my reins based on where I'm riding.
If Sharon is saying that she just walks about the property without
contact, that's understandable, but when we go off onto the trails or
farm roads, we're working all gaits and often jumping natural obstacles.
We also work off contact in the ring, while fox hunting, at team
penning, etc. Warm up on a loose rein, cool down the same, walk periods
in between.
Sure, you can use trail riding as a time to be off contact. You can
also use any other riding opportunity the same way.
--
Ruth B
betsey
>
> I definitely don't ride the same in arena and on trails as the purpose
> of each is different in my mind.
>
> With me, he doesn't scream but he will try to rush. That is the
> opposite of what I want on trails. Moreover, he is never allowed to
> rush in the arena so I am not going to even let him think he can do that
> on trails. I ask him to just stand (on a loose rein) at times and that
> is hard. I think my trainer works on that with him also on the trails
> but I would have to ask.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
but here's a question....you say "each is different in my mind"....
but what would Pete say? seriously, the Mark Rashid book was truly
excellent. gives lots of food for thought....
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:
>> No. Your statement implied that the horse doesn't care for
>> trailriding. That's different than screaming and hollering for
>> friends, which is a herd bound behavior that can be addressed.
> Well if he is herd-bound then he won't dig trail riding away from the
> herd, yes? How is the bottom line different? He either likes to go out
> away from the barn or he doesn't for whatever reason.
I can see the signs of this turning into one of those circular,
ever-dwindling arguments =)
If he is herd bound he may not "dig" any number of things. The trail
ride is not the issue if the problem behavior is screaming. Wanting to
be with buddies is the crux that needs to matter, and be addressed.
If your bottom line equation is "Pete screams when I trail ride,
therefore he doesn't dig trail riding", and you are happy with the
computation, then there ya go.
> He may be better now going very far away. I know my trainer worked with
> him this summer.
Hey, he may have been worse at the trainer's because he was in a
different place. Maybe he didn't "dig" being away from home.
--
Ruth B
Ocean of Nuance
> Ocean of Nuance wrote:
>
>> Ruth Baltopoulos wrote:
> If your bottom line equation is "Pete screams when I trail ride,
> therefore he doesn't dig trail riding", and you are happy with the
> computation, then there ya go.
No I can't produce the screaming. This property is too small.
>> He may be better now going very far away. I know my trainer worked
>> with him this summer.
>
> Hey, he may have been worse at the trainer's because he was in a
> different place. Maybe he didn't "dig" being away from home.
No he likes it up there. No musical pastures.
He is there when I am out of pocket which has been very frequent this
year unfortunately. This year, I am sure he considers both barns his
"home" barn.
sharon
Emily Brooks
"Ocean of Nuance" <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7m5t0hF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> I see trail riding as a time to be off contact.
>
> sharon
Back when I had Cash, my preference was to warm up on the buckle, and then
work into contact slowly. What Cash took this to mean was "I'm in charge
because you're not providing enough input." I thought it was a way to warm
up without stress.
What I thought about it didn't matter. Once I finally got that message, I
warmed up like I rode, albeit with less contact but not *no* contact.
Suddenly Cash and I were in tune and not having to re-learn "the person is
in charge even when she is not acting like it" over and over.
In Cash's case, that was not a security blanket but a dominance issue. In
Hoover's case, I will cool out on as long a rein as I can give and still
retain enough contact to be "in charge" but I never warm up on the buckle
anymore.
I understand that you want trail riding to be a low-key, off-work sort of
activity but Pete may need that security blanket that contact gives him for
a while, maybe forever. It doesn't necessarily need to be haute ecole sort
of contact but enough so he knows that you are there and taking care of him.
It's not the relaxing sort of ride *you* may want because you have to pay
more attention to ride that way. But you're the smart one of the duo, you
may have to adapt your expectations.
Emily
Ocean of Nuance
> "Ocean of Nuance" <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:7m5t0hF...@mid.individual.net...
>> I see trail riding as a time to be off contact.
>>
>> sharon
>
> Back when I had Cash, my preference was to warm up on the buckle, and then
> work into contact slowly. What Cash took this to mean was "I'm in charge
> because you're not providing enough input." I thought it was a way to warm
> up without stress.
>
> What I thought about it didn't matter. Once I finally got that message, I
> warmed up like I rode, albeit with less contact but not *no* contact.
> Suddenly Cash and I were in tune and not having to re-learn "the person is
> in charge even when she is not acting like it" over and over.
>
> In Cash's case, that was not a security blanket but a dominance issue. In
> Hoover's case, I will cool out on as long a rein as I can give and still
> retain enough contact to be "in charge" but I never warm up on the buckle
> anymore.
Okay I see that point.
There is no confusion in the arena... he is expected to do a bunch of
stuff off contact (these are tests of being on the seat) and then he
knows we go on contact. If he is on my seat before picking up contact
then I get that good feeling in my hand when we do go on contact. He
knows this routine in the arena.
I simply want him to do that same loose rein but on the seat work work
on the trail. He can be ridden on the seat but tends to rush on trails.
I can sometimes get him to halt just with seat on trails but not
consistently. I think he should halt off seat on trails... call me
crazy. :) And he won't want to stand for long periods of time. He is
never allowed to rush in the arena so I don't want him picking up that
habit on trails.
> I understand that you want trail riding to be a low-key, off-work sort of
> activity but Pete may need that security blanket that contact gives him for
> a while, maybe forever. It doesn't necessarily need to be haute ecole sort
> of contact but enough so he knows that you are there and taking care of him.
>
> It's not the relaxing sort of ride *you* may want because you have to pay
> more attention to ride that way. But you're the smart one of the duo, you
> may have to adapt your expectations.
You know, you are probably exactly right about this.
I had a conversation recently with my trainer about how she said he is
very "oral" not in the sense that he grabs the bit or pulls but he
really needs someone at the other end of the reins. I do know what she
means and I think she is right in this.
But we just discussed that recently. After reading your post, I think I
agree I probably shouldn't be riding on a loose rein on trails.
sharon
Emily Brooks
>
> You know, you are probably exactly right about this.
>
> I had a conversation recently with my trainer about how she said he is
> very "oral" not in the sense that he grabs the bit or pulls but he really
> needs someone at the other end of the reins. I do know what she means and
> I think she is right in this.
>
> But we just discussed that recently. After reading your post, I think I
> agree I probably shouldn't be riding on a loose rein on trails.
>
> sharon
Ah, glad I could help make the point!
Emily
Dr Corinne B Leek
<lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>He is there when I am out of pocket which has been very frequent this
>year unfortunately. This year, I am sure he considers both barns his
>"home" barn.
When you say, "out of pocket", what exactly do you mean by that?
I understand it to mean that if, eg, I did something for a club or
whatever and I say that "I'm out of pocket on that", it means that
I've had to pay for something out my own pocket.
Is this a Canuck/US difference?
Corinne & Confused Crazy Canuck Crew...
--
*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!
*** cl...@ns.sympatico.ca
Ocean of Nuance
It's really uncanny as it was only Sunday that we discussed that. :)
She had had him for a few weeks very recently and commented on that
during my first lesson back here.
You must be some kind of training and equitational genius figuring that
out over the interwebs!
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:00:52 -0500, Ocean of Nuance
> <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> He is there when I am out of pocket which has been very frequent this
>> year unfortunately. This year, I am sure he considers both barns his
>> "home" barn.
> When you say, "out of pocket", what exactly do you mean by that?
> I understand it to mean that if, eg, I did something for a club or
> whatever and I say that "I'm out of pocket on that", it means that
> I've had to pay for something out my own pocket.
> Is this a Canuck/US difference?
I mean I was otherwise occupied for various reasons and didn't have the
time to ride. I wanted him to stay in training and not lose hard-won
fitness. He has been shuttling back and forth between barns for a quite
a while. I am very lucky in my situation.
And he doesn't pay any of his bills... I pick up EVERYTHING!!!!!! :)
sharon
Emily Brooks
>
> You must be some kind of training and equitational genius figuring that
> out over the interwebs!
>
> sharon
Don't I just wish! BTDT in my own little way. From what you say I don't
think Pete has the dominance issues that Cash had but that doesn't keep him
from needing a similar sort of guidance for his own reasons.
Emily
Emily Brooks
"Dr Corinne B Leek" <cl...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:erkrf5t05autm8ok9...@4ax.com...
> When you say, "out of pocket", what exactly do you mean by that?
> I understand it to mean that if, eg, I did something for a club or
> whatever and I say that "I'm out of pocket on that", it means that
> I've had to pay for something out my own pocket.
> Is this a Canuck/US difference?
>
> Corinne & Confused Crazy Canuck Crew...
>
I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love to
attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that time
slot".
Emily
Ocean of Nuance
Exactly. I am ringing the bell* on being out of pocket this year.
Things will be better starting now.
sharon
* Corrine, just in case... ringing the bell = lots and lots.
betsey
> I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love to
> attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that time
> slot".
>
> Emily
and see, i'd use the expression this way...
"i'd love to buy that harris show saddle, but i'm out of
pocket" (meaning, NO CASH!!!!)
Dr Corinne B Leek
<lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>Emily Brooks wrote:
>> "Dr Corinne B Leek" <cl...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:erkrf5t05autm8ok9...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> When you say, "out of pocket", what exactly do you mean by that?
>>> I understand it to mean that if, eg, I did something for a club or
>>> whatever and I say that "I'm out of pocket on that", it means that
>>> I've had to pay for something out my own pocket.
>>> Is this a Canuck/US difference?
>>>
>>> Corinne & Confused Crazy Canuck Crew...
>>>
>> I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love to
>> attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that time
>> slot".
See, to me, I've only ever heard that expression in reference to $$ as
I described.
>Exactly. I am ringing the bell* on being out of pocket this year.
>Things will be better starting now.
OKaaay....
>* Corrine, just in case... ringing the bell = lots and lots.
Good thing you did that, to me "Ringing the bell" means: a free round
is being bought at the bar, or parliament is being called to session.
It sounds like language differences to me.
That's why I have both a Canadian dictionary and an American one!
Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew....
Ocean of Nuance
Okay that's interesting.
You now like at the carnival, they have that game where you hit a pad
with a mallet and try to bounce a puck-like thing as high as possible
along a vertical track? If you hit it hard enough, you "ring the bell"
at the top of the stand. It is a prototypical "strongman" thing.
sharon
Bill Kambic
<cl...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love to
>>> attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that time
>>> slot".
>See, to me, I've only ever heard that expression in reference to $$ as
>I described.
Once again, two peoples separated by a common language.
Eh? :-)
Bill Kambic
Very well put, and a reminder to "ride the horse underneath you" not
the horse in somebody's book, tape, or lecture.
Cricket
"Bill Kambic" <wjka...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:udorf5dac744ph778...@4ax.com...
<snip>
>
> Very well put, and a reminder to "ride the horse underneath you" not
> the horse in somebody's book, tape, or lecture.
LOL - rode someone's horse the other day, so they could try a saddle on
theirs (hers doesn't like to gait out to it's full ability alone - whole
'nother can o'worms). Of course, the one I was riding was unhappy 'cause
the killer evil farrier was on her back. Didn't do anything really wrong,
just rammy. Somewhere during the ride she was comparing the two, and said
"but you've gotta dance with them as brung ya", which is sort of a skewed
metaphor, but it still made me laugh.
Cricket
Cricket
"Ruth Baltopoulos" <rud...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0GjLm.169549$uO.1...@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
Or looking at it from another direction - if you could plop him down in an
arena far from his own and his buddies, would he screaming? I'm guessing
so.
Him hollering because he's somewhere he isn't familiar and can't see his
friends doesn't equate to doesn't like trail riding. The real test would
be, as I said, to find a way to plop him into an unfamiliar arena where he
can't see any other horses, and see what he does.
Cricket
Cricket
Well, I live in Michigan, and I never heard "out of pocket" to mean anything
but paid for something and you won't get the money back, when you had
expected to, sometimes stretched to mean you had to pay for one thing, so
you're too broke to do another (which is what I took it to mean in this
case).
Confusion reigns supreme... ;>D
Cricket
Dr Corinne B Leek
wrote:
Yeah, eh! ;-)
Except you've forgotten there's also Aussies & Brits and... well. A
lot more these days!
Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew...
Jill
> <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> He is there when I am out of pocket which has been very frequent this
>> year unfortunately. This year, I am sure he considers both barns his
>> "home" barn.
> When you say, "out of pocket", what exactly do you mean by that?
> I understand it to mean that if, eg, I did something for a club or
> whatever and I say that "I'm out of pocket on that", it means that
> I've had to pay for something out my own pocket.
> Is this a Canuck/US difference?
>
> Corinne & Confused Crazy Canuck Crew...
I get your meaning but I would read being "out of pocket" as being not able
to "afford" one barn so sending him to another, cheaper one, but I suspect
that is not the case here.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
www.kintaline.co.uk - where we are, what we do: Kintaline Plant and Poultry
Centre
Judie
> "Ruth Baltopoulos" <rudy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
What about taking him on a trail ride with a buddy? He should like
that then he likes trail rides "conditionally" LOL.
Judie
JC Dill
>>> That has to be gained with good training and attitude. Once you get
>>> that, and it doesnt take long, there will be no screaming. It is rude,
>>> annoying, and the lack of focus is potentially dangerous.
>> Good post, Abby.
>> --
>> Ruth B
>
> Ditto on that!
<aol> Me Too! </aol>
jc
Ocean of Nuance
(snip)
> What about taking him on a trail ride with a buddy? He should like
> that then he likes trail rides "conditionally" LOL.
LOL! Let's not lose our heads here!
Horse are capable of binary thought.
So objects are food - not food.
People are mommy - not mommy and kind - jerk.
That's not to say they can't have two mommies BTW.
Anyway, I don't ride in company both because I don't have anyone to ride
with and because Pete is better alone in my opinion. If I thought he
dug riding in company I would try to find a partner. I know my trainer
took him out both alone and in company at her place. I also know he was
not easy when I did ride in company. He did not like being behind.
sharon
Dawn J-L
> > his normal "Gumby" trot:http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-10C.jpg
>
> > sitting into a canter depart:http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-44C.jpg
>
> Dawn--
> he's really REALLY lovely.
>
> Betsey
On Nov 13, 5:27 am, "Tara" <irn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> He's beautiful!
>
> Tara
Thanks Betsey and Tara,
He's been the ugly duckling who is now (finally) growing into a
swan. :-)
--Dawn
betsey
>
> Anyway, I don't ride in company both because I don't have anyone to ride
> with and because Pete is better alone in my opinion. If I thought he
> dug riding in company I would try to find a partner. I know my trainer
> took him out both alone and in company at her place. I also know he was
> not easy when I did ride in company. He did not like being behind.
>
> sharon
Hey Sharon--
not one usually to say pot kettle black....
but it is starting to sound like you're making excuses here <g>.
Tom & Win
>
> I simply want him to do that same loose rein but on the seat work work
> on the trail. He can be ridden on the seat but tends to rush on trails.
> I can sometimes get him to halt just with seat on trails but not
> consistently. I think he should halt off seat on trails... call me
> crazy. :) And he won't want to stand for long periods of time. He is
> never allowed to rush in the arena so I don't want him picking up that
> habit on trails.
>
Sharon, the young woman who worked as an instructor at my barn was very
good at trail training. There are a half dozen horses and riders that
she worked with who now have consistently relaxed rides on the trail
alone or in groups.
For standing she would start by asking for just two seconds. If the
horse moved, back him up a few steps and ask again. Rinse, repeat. When
he can do it quietly for two seconds, go for three or four. The
consequence for moving is backing up. The reward for standing is moving
quietly ahead again.
I ride regularly with a couple of QHs that she worked with and they are
a joy to be with on the trail. They don't rush, ride too close, or mind
switching positions. They don't object to passing or being passed.
She did a good job.
Winnie
Tom & Win
Well, I'm from MA and I've only heard the term referring to cash, too. I
figured out the context that Sharon was using.
Since moving here to SC I am getting used to reinterpreting idioms and
figuring out new ones. For example;
In MA if someone is a mess they are in trouble with some kind of life
complication. Here, they are considered to be some kind of
interesting/amusing character.
Winnie
Jane Saranac
"Ocean of Nuance" <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7m6345F...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>> I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love
>> to attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that
>> time slot".
>
> Exactly. I am ringing the bell* on being out of pocket this year. Things
> will be better starting now.
>
> sharon
>
> * Corrine, just in case... ringing the bell = lots and lots.
I'm glad you explained all that as it made no sense to me either.
And for ringing the bell my first thought was you were volunteering for the
Salvation Army, but that was immediately perceptually corrected : ).
Ocean of Nuance
I am guessing my trainer did stuff like that with him when she had him.
It's just taking the time.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
And I'd just like to add that I can't recommend trailering a horse to a
fro several times and paying at two barns to hold stall if you are out
of pocket in the financial and not time availability sense. :0
This year has been off the hook in that regard. (Corrine, just in case,
off the hook = ridiculously frantic).
One upside besides him staying fit and in training is that he is much
more comfortable with trailering. My trainer mentioned that the last
time she delivered him back to me.
sharon
Ocean of Nuance
Good point. I will "majick" a riding partner today and ride with them.
Step 1... start believing in majick...
sharon
betsey
> sharon
conjure all you want <g>
but my point was for someone so analytical and doggedly scientific,
you sure are making excuses and humanizing your horse a bit here!
Tom & Win
>
> This year has been off the hook in that regard. (Corrine, just in case,
> off the hook = ridiculously frantic).
>
And to me 'off the hook' means not resonsible for something. eg.I
thought I'd have to help in the kitchen, but someone else volunteered so
I'm 'off the hook'.
Winnie
Ocean of Nuance
Not having someone to ride with on trail is making an excuse? Should I
advertise?
sharon
Dr Corinne B Leek
<lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>Jane Saranac wrote:
>> "Ocean of Nuance" <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:7m6345F...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>>> I take Sharon's 'out of pocket' to mean 'not available'. As in "I'd love
>>>> to attend your monthly results meeting but I'm out of pocket for that
>>>> time slot".
>>> Exactly. I am ringing the bell* on being out of pocket this year. Things
>>> will be better starting now.
>>>
>>> sharon
>>>
>>> * Corrine, just in case... ringing the bell = lots and lots.
>>
>> I'm glad you explained all that as it made no sense to me either.
>>
>> And for ringing the bell my first thought was you were volunteering for the
>> Salvation Army, but that was immediately perceptually corrected : ).
>
>And I'd just like to add that I can't recommend trailering a horse to a
>fro several times and paying at two barns to hold stall if you are out
>of pocket in the financial and not time availability sense. :0
Part of why I was thoroughly confused.
>This year has been off the hook in that regard. (Corrine, just in case,
>off the hook = ridiculously frantic).
See.
There I agree with Winnie.
I'd have used a phrase like "off the charts".
For someone who likes things to be so precise, why do you use such
phraseology?
Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew, thoroughly familiar with linguistic
difficulties....
Cricket
"Tom & Win" <tl...@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:l6qdnTDmT6D...@comporium.net...
What she said - in fact, exactly what she said (I got saved from family
kitchen duty the other day, so I was "off the hook" for that PITA).
Cricket
amesnatlzoo
> One upside besides him staying fit and in training is that he is much
> more comfortable with trailering. My trainer mentioned that the last
> time she delivered him back to me.
Don't you think he'd be more comfortable with, say, trail riding, if he had
more practice?
It's one thing to be fortunate enough to have a horse, like Pete, who
happens to be comfortable in exactly the settings his rider prefers. And
if that's where you and he are most comfortable, and neither of you is
pining for the fjords (or Fjords), that's great.
It's also a Good Thing to gear your riding to what the horse is physically
and mentally conformed to do well.
At the same time, using "my horse doesn't like to trail ride" as an excuse
to avoid trail riding seems to me to lack horsemanship. If you don't like
trail riding, fine.
--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles (retired);
U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RA; ANZ Pas de Duke; and rotund Rhia
Ocean of Nuance
> Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> One upside besides him staying fit and in training is that he is much
>> more comfortable with trailering. My trainer mentioned that the last
>> time she delivered him back to me.
>
> Don't you think he'd be more comfortable with, say, trail riding, if he had
> more practice?
>
> It's one thing to be fortunate enough to have a horse, like Pete, who
> happens to be comfortable in exactly the settings his rider prefers. And
> if that's where you and he are most comfortable, and neither of you is
> pining for the fjords (or Fjords), that's great.
>
> It's also a Good Thing to gear your riding to what the horse is physically
> and mentally conformed to do well.
>
> At the same time, using "my horse doesn't like to trail ride" as an excuse
> to avoid trail riding seems to me to lack horsemanship. If you don't like
> trail riding, fine.
>
I DON'T AVOID TRAIL RIDING!
I trail ride every week pretty much! When I have him by me that is.
He has all kinds of time to practice. Weekly. He does it because I
want him to get out of the arena.
This medium (newsgroups) absolutely and without doubt defeats
communication. Or encourages wildly fallacious speculation. Something.
And I do aspire to own a Fjord if the heavens align because they look to
be ridiculously cute and cuddly.
sharon
amesnatlzoo
> And I do aspire to own a Fjord if the heavens align because they look
> to be ridiculously cute and cuddly.
Well, see, maybe Pete IS pining for a Fjord!
Sharon, I wasn't accusing you of anything. Just trying to point out that
*how* we present information often affects how that information is
interpreted by others.
You've said that you look on trail riding as a more relaxed way of riding
in contrast to arena work. Pete may not share that view, or he may be
worried by the changes in your riding from arena to trail, or he may just
be testing the boundaries (are the rules the same on the trail as in the
arena?), or he simply isn't as comfortable in a trail setting.
The late, great Mr. Tongue preferred open areas to wooded or enclosed
areas. He was always more reactive on forested trails and indoor arenas
than outdoor arenas and grassland trails. It was no big deal, really, but
I was aware of his preference for one over the other.
Jane Saranac
"Ocean of Nuance" <lizRMOVz...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:7m8n5sF...@mid.individual.net...
Maybe you could go with your trainer? Or whatever else makes for comfort?
I think what Betsey was saying (not that you need translating, Betsey) was
that you are really saying that you don't enjoy trailriding with Pete on the
trips that you've taken. It's hard to imagine a horse not enjoying a loose
reined, relaxing romp in the woods or in a field. Maybe your sense that he
only likes it if it's work is really more of a case that you only feel in
control with him if you make it like arena work. Which is probably a case
of you being unsure/nervous because/and as a result of/ him being insecure,
and he feeding into you, and it spirals.
If a horse is wanting to be with others and is worried about being left
behind it means he is not "on" you, and you are not being the leader he
needs to be secure, who can protect him from the monsters in the woods.
Usually it's because you are thinking too much and not breathing enough.
Always boggles my mind how they know when you stop breathing. I make myself
do this silly mantra when I get stuck because then you have to breathe.
When I went places with Pal -- alone or with others -- where _I_ could be
relaxed, how amazing was it to report when we came back that he had a great
ride, a great time, enjoyed himself -- because I did. On the other hand if
I forecast and inadvertently fed into his insecurity and let it make me
insecure rather than me being the calm leader, suddenly it was a ride where
my horse didn't have a very good time. Joyce once said to me that in order
to be my best as a rider I have to completely forget things that make me a
good lawyer (the cerebral, analystical, forecasting things anyway). As a
logical, scientific, analystic person I suspect it is difficult for you to
relax and be intuitive, "feel", and just have fun on a trail ride if you
haven't had a ton of under saddle hours doing it. And yes I know you said
"I do it every week" but why do I expect your idea of doing a trail ride
(keeping the horse on contact, making it work) and mine are different? I'm
not saying that I am a confident trail rider -- it's one of my goals, to
be -- but I sure don't know a horse that hasn't really loved it, if he was
allowed to. I guess I sort of feel like, it's kind of like sex -- if it
isn't fun, you're just doing it wrong <g>.
Ocean of Nuance
Nothing you speculate about relates to me and Pete.
Is this how you approach trail riding?
I am trying to make it exactly like my loose rein warm up in the arena.
I am doing the same things. He is reacting differently away from
the barn. I am not throwing new stuff at him in re my riding.
I have ZERO reason to not be relaxed on this horse in the arena, on
trails, on the moon, etc.. The trails are not scary. The easement
where we do hill work is not scary.
Are the trails by you scary? How so?
sharon
betsey
>
> > but my point was for someone so analytical and doggedly scientific,
> > you sure are making excuses and humanizing your horse a bit here!
>
> Not having someone to ride with on trail is making an excuse? Should I
> advertise?
>
> sharon
No, but all your excuses of that you think he doesn't "dig it" is!
and i've known people who have advertized, quite successfully for
trail riding partners/groups.
betsey
> Maybe you could go with your trainer? Or whatever else makes for comfort?
>
> I think what Betsey was saying (not that you need translating, Betsey) was
Nah, what I was really saying...was the that very often...sometimes
way too often <g>, Sharon takes the stand of being really scientific,
and analytical in her approach to everything....but then she goes and
fluffbunnies her horse "he doesn't dig it", ect. in the excuse
catagory. To be honest, it makes me laugh, and even like her a bit
better--because she (and don't tell her this) can't keep the 100%
scientific approach mentality 100% of the time.
Jane Saranac
"betsey" <twox...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:919de2ff-4be8-4a5d...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
---
Okay... but if we aren't saying the same thing than what did you think
Sharon's explanation was an excuse _for_? It can't be that she doesn't
have time, because she says she's doing it. It can't be for not going with
others because she says that she has gone with others and Pete doesn't like
getting left behind. So I figured that you meant it was an excuse for her
not liking it herself.
betsey
> Okay... but if we aren't saying the same thing than what did you think
> Sharon's explanation was an excuse _for_? It can't be that she doesn't
> have time, because she says she's doing it. It can't be for not going with
> others because she says that she has gone with others and Pete doesn't like
> getting left behind. So I figured that you meant it was an excuse for her
> not liking it herself.
I think people often create their own reality, which may be different
from REAL reality <g>
Ocean of Nuance
That's pretty ironic for you to say, Betsy and I'm not talking about
your riding. :)
sharon
betsey
> That's pretty ironic for you to say, Betsy and I'm not talking about
> your riding. :)
>
> sharon
care to expand upon this?
Ocean of Nuance
This is what you wrote, "I think people often create their own reality,
which may be different from REAL reality <g>"
You and 80% of the US populace have bought into a entire imaginary world
that comes at the expense of reality, at the opposition to scientific
facts, and at the sacrifice of simple human kindnesses.
Think hard. Don't be afraid to think for yourself. You are very fearful
of thinking for yourself.
sharon
betsey
>
> Think hard. Don't be afraid to think for yourself. You are very fearful
> of thinking for yourself.
>
> sharon
Sharon-
I'm going to make the grand assumption you're going down the religion
line again.
sigh. I really hate when you resort to this battle. it's kind of like
your default button...oh no, i feel threatened, let me bring up
religion....
So, I'm going to say this. I've never thought less of a person
because of their religious convictions...whatever they may be,
including atheists. My faith is just that, My faith. Not yours, and
not someone else's. Because I do respect what someone else
believes...which does NOT translate into "i believe it too"....I'd
really wish you would remember something important..
the US, was founded in part, because of the need for religious
freedom. I'd like you to afford me the same respect that I try to
afford you. In my respect, that does not mean I'm a "oh but I will
pray for Sharon to find.....", or any of that BS. What you believe is
what you believe. Not MY JOB to try and change it.
I'm not afraid to think for myself. I'm also not afraid to ask
questions in an effort to gain knowledge. But c'mon please, PLEASE
stop the "i'll resort to religion bashing as a way of diverting
things".
Ocean of Nuance
>> Think hard. Don't be afraid to think for yourself. You are very fearful
>> of thinking for yourself.
>>
>> sharon
>
> Sharon-
>
> I'm going to make the grand assumption you're going down the religion
> line again.
> sigh. I really hate when you resort to this battle. it's kind of like
> your default button...oh no, i feel threatened, let me bring up
> religion....
You combine the phrase pot calling the kettle black with a claim that I
was avoiding some reality.
If you knew yourself better, you could have seen that coming from a mile
away.
You can think independently if you want.
sharon
rayk...@rnsmte.com
The LotLizard is a commie whore whose religion is the state.
"betsey" <twox...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cef0cb23-0d8f-44e7...@o23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
cindi
wrote:
>
> I am trying to make it exactly like my loose rein warm up in the arena.
> I am doing the same things. He is reacting differently away from
> the barn. I am not throwing new stuff at him in re my riding.
He acts the way he acts in the arena because he's been trained. You
can't add complications or distractions and expect the training to
remain the same. Think of dog training. Maybe you want your walk in
the woods with your dog to be totally relaxing, off leash, so your dog
can be free and have fun. Maybe in the building where you do training
class your dog is capable of doing off leash relaxing walks without
forgetting his training (don't run off, don't ignore you, whatever).
But you can't just take the dog to the wide open woods and turn him
loose without first having TRAINED in that area, on leash.
Doing something in the arena is one thing. Doing something in the
arena with 10 other horses is another. Doing something on the trail
is another. Doing something at a show is another. Doing something in
the arena when a hose is being dragged around is yet another... In
other words you might one day get Pete to be able to be at liberty on
parole, working off seat only, outside the arena, but it doesn't
happen automatically just because he can do it in the arena. You have
to train him to do it under other circumstances.
cindi
Catja Pafort
> Here's one of my three year olds. Obie is a very supple and fluid
> horse. He'll be started under saddle next spring; I think he will be
> fun to ride:
>
> his normal "Gumby" trot:
> http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-10C.jpg
>
> sitting into a canter depart:
> http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-44C.jpg
There are times when I regret being 5'10"
That horse has 'dressage' written all over him. Love his coupling. Love
his ability to stay connected. Am in awe of his shoulder and can't wait
to see what he'll be like once he's been under saddle for a bit.
Catja
--
writing blog @ http://beyond-elechan.livejournal.com
Grizzly
betsey
>
> You can think independently if you want.
>
> sharon
very true. how sad that once again, you're running and hiding behind
your standard defenses.
let's see, you often proclaim to be purely scientific and facts, but
yet you throw out phrases "he doesn't dig it" "he has two mommies",
etc. NONE of which Sharon, I find appalling or disturbing. You are
assigning your horse human emotions. again, nothing new to anyone who
owns an animal. we all do it, all the time. But quick jumping to the
defense that someone got a little too close to something, so you feel
you have to drag out the "think for yourself, there's no such thing as
God debate".
geezooo...bring it back to horse stuff. You asked if you should
advertise for a trail partner. I commented that many have done that,
quite successfully. is there anyone where you board that has a
trailer and you can partner up with? then, you could take Pete
someplace within reason and trail ride together and see what happens.
You might like it. he might like it.
I've readily admitted I have issues with trail riding alone, and on
the whole have some confidence issues when it comes to riding.
period. but, i do look for opportunities to stretch my comfort
level. so it behooves me to try riding out alone a bit. so no, i'm
not the person implying you are a wimp, or a scaredy cat or anything
of that friggin' sort. what I AM saying is that perhaps you aren't
looking at the whole trail riding situation. I mentioned Mark
Rashid's book and his discussion of consistency. Another person
discussed the whole contact thing...for which you pretty much shouted
EUREKA....but in the most basic...still comes down to consistency,
eh?
So stop the friggin' mud slinging. noone's out to get you.
betsey
> to train him to do it under other circumstances.
>
> cindi
Great post cindi--said very well!
Grizzly
Dawn J-L
Pafort) wrote:
> Dawn J-L <tjone...@together.net> wrote:
> > Here's one of my three year olds. Obie is a very supple and fluid
> > horse. He'll be started under saddle next spring; I think he will be
> > fun to ride:
>
> > his normal "Gumby" trot:
> >http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-10C.jpg
>
> > sitting into a canter depart:
> >http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Obie102509-44C.jpg
>
> There are times when I regret being 5'10"
>
> That horse has 'dressage' written all over him. Love his coupling. Love
> his ability to stay connected. Am in awe of his shoulder and can't wait
> to see what he'll be like once he's been under saddle for a bit.
>
This guy may make 16H (or even a bit over); his sire line is known
to produce height. Obie was born very tall for an Arabian and has
spent the last three years growing into himself. I didn't measure him
when he was born (though I weight taped him at 112lbs --the avg
Arabian foal is 85 lbs). He was such a long legged foal that when he
dam stood up, his pelvis and hind legs were still in the birth canal
while his nose and toes dragged on the ground!! His poor 14.2H momma
who usually has rather large foals gave me a look of disbelief.
I am really looking forward to getting him started under saddle. He's
a sweet boy and really likes working with people. I think he will
like being ridden. :-)
--Dawn JL