A question of dyeing...
Sue Carlson Dunn
pale yellow colour, and would like to have a go at hand dying them -
possibly painting on dye or dipping to make a variegated effect. I
know that they will need to be wound into hanks for this, but if any
of our dyed-in-the-wool experts can offer a few pointers about what
dyes could be used easily, I'd be very glad, as my sole experience of
dyeing things is tie-died t-shirts and towels.
I'd rather not have to buy any dyestuffs, so things that might be in
the kitchen cupboards would be useful. Would food colouring work?
And what would be the best way to fix the colours?
For anyone who is reeling with horror at the possibility of
mistreating cashmere yarn - it cost me almost nothing, is quite grubby
in places, and is a truly uninspiring shade!
--
Sue CD...quietly unravelling in Cumbria...
Pot Luck Crafts www.howhill.com
Sue's Project Pages www.howhill.com/projects
Please take off your shoes to email me!
Noreen's Knit*che
Sue, I can't help you on this, but I AM looking forward to the
answers! Should be quite an interesting 'thread'.
Hugs,
Noreen
Noreen's Knit*che
NATA #447
(my family tree is FULL of 'nuts'!)
http://www.myegroups.com/http://www.myegroups.com/
Group Code:
3258C1
Picot Page
Group Code:
32B6E6
Needles, Hooks, Shuttles and Bobbins
Sonya Cirillo
comes in a dry 'cake' - I've not seen it myself. . .)
I have links for how to dye with kool aid - I haven't had time to get
around to that experiment yet, so have no practical experience. If no
one else offers up good practical experience I can dig out the web site
for you. . . the basics is get the skein wet and mix the kool aid in
some water with a 'glug' of vinegar added. . .
To add the dye to the yarn: place the yarn in a 'safe' dish - either a
microwavable one or for the oven. . . 99.9% of dying instructions insist
that you DON'T use aluminum but recently I heard from someone that uses
the disposible ones with no problems. . . . if you are going to 'nuke'
the yarn you can wrap it in plastic food wrap. . .
So you can either add the color(s) to certain portions, a little at a
time - or pour it over the whole portion for a single color or try
dipping one end in and having the dye travel up a little - no idea how
well that works. . .
Then you heat/zap the whole 'mess' to get the color well absorbed and set.
Here's some links:
http://www.socknitters.com/Tips/anneKAdying.htm
http://www.socknitters.com/Tips/barbkoolaid.htm
http://www.bevscountrycottage.com/kool-aid-dying.html
http://www.thepiper.com/fiberart/koolaid/basic-howto.html
http://www.selectpath.com/harger/knitting/pages/Dying%20with%20Kool-Aid.htm
(this shows a before and after of dying on the stovetop)
http://www.knittingpark.com/Koolaid.html (another one with pictures)
http://www.yarndreams.com/gallery/dye.html
Have fun!!!! Let us know how it goes.
Sonya
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>I'd rather not have to buy any dyestuffs, so things that might be in
>the kitchen cupboards would be useful. Would food colouring work?
>And what would be the best way to fix the colours?
Yes, food colorings will work on Cashmere. You need acid to make them fix
to the fiber. Citric acid, aka sour salt, works best. A little goes a long
way. Or vinegar. You want it about as sour as lemonade. You can just about
judge it by the smell if you don't have a pH meter. I use a garden meter,
but really only to verify myself. Koolaid generally needs no acid added.
It's tart enough to set the color well, unless you have alkaline water. If
the dye is not exhausting, leaving the water clear, add a bit more sour.
The method for painting is a little more involved. Then you either want to
mix the acid with the color, or dampen the fiber with acidic water. You
will also need heat to set the color. For solid color, that's in a pot on
the stove top at a simmer so low that only steam comes off; no bubbling.
For painted, that can be in the oven on the lowest setting, or in a car
parked in the hot sun all afternoon with the windows closed. We're talking
140-160F in the latter case, which sets the dye quite permanently in my
experience. Salt is only used in the vat, to slow the color uptake and make
it more even. It is not used in painting, where you don't want the color to
spread evenly.
Recycled squirt bottles are great for mixing the color with just enough hot
water to get down to a reasonable shade and then applying it to the skein.
helen...@covad.net
Helen "Halla" Fleischer,
Fantasy & Fiber Artist in Fairland, MD USA
http://home.covad.net/~drgandalf/halla/
Sue Carlson Dunn
news:beed2m$d...@library1.airnews.net...
8< a wealth of information about dyeing with Kool-Aid which I have
snipped >8
Thanks for the info, Sonya. Am I right in thinking that Kool-Aid is
some sort of soft drink? I can't recall seeing anything of that name
over here in the UK... Any ideas about similar products?
Sonya Cirillo
unsweetened (what we are referring to) or sweetened. One packet makes 2
qt - just add water and sugar. . .when we visited the UK, I honestly
didn't look in that section when we were in the store (I was too busy
stocking up on tea!) But if you have a powdered drink that you just add
water and sugar to make up (mainly) for kids to drink that comes in
different colors - then that's it. The reason people use this brand is
it has quite the selection of flavors (lemonade, pink lemonade, Blue
Raspberry, Grape, Cherry, Lemon-Lime. . .) and therefore colors and they
tend to be the most colorful (slightly more expensive too - cheap brands
can be had for 10/$1 whereas Kool Aid is 4-5/$1).
People have talked about using food coloring made by the Wilson Co. -
known for their cake making supplies - the coloring is sold to color
icing/frosting for cakes. It can come in liquid, gel/paste or powder
form with the second two being the best for this purpose. . . another
thing used is the coloring kits for dying Easter Eggs - they use to be
all pastels but in the past few years they've come out available in much
brighter colors. . .
If you can't find something similar - maybe we can do an exchange. In
particular my DH wants some issues of "The Countryman" (I think that's
the title) and it's only available as a subscription and he didn't want
to go that route. . . So I'd be willing to mail umpteen or whatever a
fair equivalent number of packets are for one or two issues)
Sonya
Sue Carlson Dunn
news:bfnlgvsiup7rntbu2...@4ax.com...
> | On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:02:39 +0100, "Sue Carlson Dunn"
<potlucky...@howhill.com> wrote:
>
> >I'd rather not have to buy any dyestuffs, so things that might be
in
> >the kitchen cupboards would be useful. Would food colouring work?
> >And what would be the best way to fix the colours?
>
> Yes, food colorings will work on Cashmere. You need acid to make
them fix
> to the fiber. Citric acid, aka sour salt, works best. A little goes
a long
> way. Or vinegar. You want it about as sour as lemonade. You can just
about
> judge it by the smell if you don't have a pH meter. I use a garden
meter,
> but really only to verify myself. Koolaid generally needs no acid
added.
> It's tart enough to set the color well, unless you have alkaline
water. If
> the dye is not exhausting, leaving the water clear, add a bit more
sour.
When you say vinegar - do you mean the colourless stuff, or malt
vinegar?
And what exactly does "exhausting " mean in the dyeing context?
> The method for painting is a little more involved. Then you either
want to
> mix the acid with the color, or dampen the fiber with acidic water.
You
> will also need heat to set the color. For solid color, that's in a
pot on
> the stove top at a simmer so low that only steam comes off; no
bubbling.
> For painted, that can be in the oven on the lowest setting, or in a
car
> parked in the hot sun all afternoon with the windows closed. We're
talking
> 140-160F in the latter case, which sets the dye quite permanently in
my
> experience. Salt is only used in the vat, to slow the color uptake
and make
> it more even. It is not used in painting, where you don't want the
color to
> spread evenly.
Not much chance of hot sun over here! ;-) Would putting the hank in a
suitable container and microwaving it have the same effect? Will the
heat (from whatever source) affect the final texture of the yarn? I'd
hate to lose that supersoftness.
> Recycled squirt bottles are great for mixing the color with just
enough hot
> water to get down to a reasonable shade and then applying it to the
skein.
Thanks for all the ideas - so this is what I did degree-level
Chemistry for! ;-))
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>When you say vinegar - do you mean the colourless stuff, or malt
>vinegar?
The cheap, cheap colorless stuff.
>And what exactly does "exhausting " mean in the dyeing context?
Means the water goes clear and all the color is in the yarn. In other
words, all the color is used up.
>Not much chance of hot sun over here! ;-) Would putting the hank in a
>suitable container and microwaving it have the same effect? Will the
>heat (from whatever source) affect the final texture of the yarn? I'd
>hate to lose that supersoftness.
Yes, but with 2 caveats. It's easy to over heat the yarn in the microwave
and the microwave also seems to open the scales of the fiber making it feel
a little harsher and more likely to felt. At your latitude, I dare say it's
harder to get the interior of a car as hot as it can get here, but even on
a 70F day a closed car with the sun on it can get up to 125-140.
Do you have a warming oven? That would be gentler than the micro. Or a
crock pot works, too. I picked up one at the thrift store for just this
purpose. Also, when I'm doing one skein at a time, by the dip method, I
just use an insulated container, like a lunch tote. I mix the dye, acid
and boiling water in a pint or quart-size, heat-proof plastic container
such as soup comes in from the Chinese restaurant. Hot as their soup is,
that's sturdy plastic! I only fill it half way and then push the dry skein
or ball in. Then I quick, snap on the lid and pop the whole thing into the
insulated container. I leave it absolutely alone for at least an hour. It
will hold the heat well enough to set the dye. When I lift the yarn, the
water will be clear, assuming there was enough acidity. If not, I set the
wet ball aside, zap the water, add more vinegar and push the ball back in
for another go. This works especially well with powdered drink mix or
easter egg dyes, but I've used it with Wilton food dye and McCormick liquid
food color as well. Note that it is WILTON with a T not with an S, if you
plan to search for it on the web. I get the paste at Walmart where it's
cheap and plentiful. It is also VERY concentrated and a little tough to
dissolve, so I pre-dissolve it in a pint jar of boiling water and then use
that stock solution to mix up dye bath or painting strength.
Anyway, back to the dip-dye. What you have after doing this once, is a
skein or ball that's about half the color you want and half white, or
whatever color it started out, with transition areas that fade from one
into the other. You can repeat the process with less or more water to make
a skein with 2 colors fading to white in between, or 2 colors with the
blend of the 2 in between. It's great fun. You also get very different
effects when you knit it up, depending whether you used a ball, a folded
skein or a skein that was still twisted as well as folded.
>> Recycled squirt bottles are great for mixing the color with just
>enough hot
>> water to get down to a reasonable shade and then applying it to the
>skein.
>
>Thanks for all the ideas - so this is what I did degree-level
>Chemistry for! ;-))
Grin. Then you'd love the book, The New Dyer. I didn't do well in Chemistry
and found the thing rather over my head in places because of that. I still
have trouble working with fiber reactive dyes on cellulose fibers, but acid
dyes on protein fibers are a breeze.
Els van Dam
<cir...@localline.com> wrote:
99.9% of dying instructions insist
> that you DON'T use aluminum but recently I heard from someone that uses
> the disposible ones with no problems. . . . if you are going to 'nuke'
> the yarn you can wrap it in plastic food wrap. . .
Sonia....I would say that the 99.9 percent have it right...you will have
problems microwaving, while using aluminium piepans....It could ruin your
machine....don't try it.....a glass dish will work just as well.
Els
--
delete doba to email me.....:=))
Sonya Cirillo
method. . . either you missed that part before the quote below or I
didn't get it included. I was just repeating some of the stuff I've
picked up over the last year or so - that's what all the links were for
tho' - those who have actually done this and can give the results as
*facts* :)
Sonya
Els van Dam
<cir...@localline.com> wrote:
> Nope - never, ever put metal in the microwave - that was for the oven
> method. . . either you missed that part before the quote below or I
> didn't get it included. I was just repeating some of the stuff I've
> picked up over the last year or so - that's what all the links were for
> tho' - those who have actually done this and can give the results as
> *facts* :)
>
> Sonya
> > Els
I must have missed that somehow.....Sonya....also misspelled your name,
sorry about that....I am a lousy speller, and sometime type a bit to
fast....LOL
I do know people though that would do that.....I have also seen some scary
mishandling of chemicals while part of a dyeing workshop. It can become a
real health problem.
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>I do know people though that would do that.....I have also seen some scary
>mishandling of chemicals while part of a dyeing workshop. It can become a
>real health problem.
One nice thing about using the food colorings is that this casual approach
is less of a worry. The primary danger with acid dyes is in inhaling the
powder as the particles in the powdered form are very fine and can lodge in
the lungs. The food forms are pre-mixed to liquid or paste, or in the case
of the powdered drink mixes, with citric acid which makes it clump to a
larger particle size.
Els van Dam
helen...@covad.net wrote:
> | On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:51:41 -0700, jacob...@coastnet.com (Els van
Dam) wrote:
>
> >I do know people though that would do that.....I have also seen some scary
> >mishandling of chemicals while part of a dyeing workshop. It can become a
> >real health problem.
>
> One nice thing about using the food colorings is that this casual approach
> is less of a worry. The primary danger with acid dyes is in inhaling the
> powder as the particles in the powdered form are very fine and can lodge in
> the lungs. The food forms are pre-mixed to liquid or paste, or in the case
> of the powdered drink mixes, with citric acid which makes it clump to a
> larger particle size.
Yes you are right Helen, it makes it easier to use and it does not matter
when people become sloppy and use cooking utensils for chemical end uses,
and than boil their potatoes in the same pan the same day they did their
dyeing.
Some of the fumes of the mordants in both chemical and natural dyeing can
be bad as well when inhaled, so lots of ventilation or doing the dyeing
outside, like Trudy van Stralen does...makes good sense.
Els
Karen
Australia wool that was said to be "ready for dying" -- but after I got it,
I decided I liked the natural ecru color, and I didn't know anything about
dying anyway. So it is still sitting in the bag in its natural state.
But now . . . after reading these postings about dying . . . I feel like I
want to try it, if for no other reason than to try my hand at dying! As
usual with this group, it's not so scary because I know there are all these
people here to lend a virtual hand if I have problems of questions. The
thought of trying it is now very intriguing.
Funny . . . a few months ago, I didn't think I'd get past knitting scarves.
Then I start seeing and reading about other things to do. Suddenly I'm
trying a sweater -- then socks -- now dying wool -- a few more months
here, I'm going to be wanting to raise and shear my own sheep! :)
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>> One nice thing about using the food colorings is that this casual approach
>> is less of a worry. The primary danger with acid dyes is in inhaling the
>> powder as the particles in the powdered form are very fine and can lodge in
>> the lungs. The food forms are pre-mixed to liquid or paste, or in the case
>> of the powdered drink mixes, with citric acid which makes it clump to a
>> larger particle size.
>
>Yes you are right Helen, it makes it easier to use and it does not matter
>when people become sloppy and use cooking utensils for chemical end uses,
>and than boil their potatoes in the same pan the same day they did their
>dyeing.
I still cringe at that thought, though I don't know why. When I boil eggs,
I put food coloring in the water so I know which ones are boiled when I
cool them in the fridge. When they're done I lift them out of the water,
add vinegar to the pot and pop in a skein of clean wool to take up what's
left of the dye so I don't pour color down the drain. Can't imagine doing
that with any other sort of dye!
>Some of the fumes of the mordants in both chemical and natural dyeing can
>be bad as well when inhaled, so lots of ventilation or doing the dyeing
>outside, like Trudy van Stralen does...makes good sense.
Amen. I pretty much gave up "natural" dyeing when I moved to a house with a
septic system. I could not see poisoning the system with mordants or toxic
dyestuffs. If I do any traditional dying, it's only with dyestuffs that are
as innocuous as onion skins with no mordant, or at most a little food-grade
alum. I don't consider mordants all that "natural". Nor would I even dream
of boiling up a deadly pot of lily of the valley for dye, indoors or out,
even though my yard is overgrown with the stuff.
Els van Dam
helen...@covad.net wrote:
> Amen. I pretty much gave up "natural" dyeing when I moved to a house with a
> septic system. I could not see poisoning the system with mordants or toxic
> dyestuffs. If I do any traditional dying, it's only with dyestuffs that are
> as innocuous as onion skins with no mordant, or at most a little food-grade
> alum. I don't consider mordants all that "natural". Nor would I even dream
> of boiling up a deadly pot of lily of the valley for dye, indoors or out,
> even though my yard is overgrown with the stuff.
>
> helen...@covad.net
> Helen "Halla" Fleischer,
> Fantasy & Fiber Artist in Fairland, MD USA
> http://home.covad.net/~drgandalf/halla/
Helen I am closer to that as well, even food colouring, some of them, I
think it is red has been declared toxic. the times I have done natural
dying I have poured the dye into a hole dug for it, so it wouldbe strained
by the soil instead of going into our septic field, even so I am not
totally comfortable with it. I am not doing a lot of dyeing. Although in
our Guild there is lots more chemical dyeing going on, because it has
become so easy to do, but that does not mean that it is not toxic
anymore. So dyeing with harmless dyes is better, and onion skins give a
lovely dye and it smels nice as well.
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>Helen I am closer to that as well, even food colouring, some of them, I
>think it is red has been declared toxic. the times I have done natural
There was one red that was determined to be carcinogenic but it has been
off the market for years. Its primary use was in maraschino cherries.
>anymore. So dyeing with harmless dyes is better, and onion skins give a
>lovely dye and it smels nice as well.
>
I dare say some would disagree on the smell. To each their own!
Els van Dam
helen...@covad.net wrote:
>
> There was one red that was determined to be carcinogenic but it has been
> off the market for years. Its primary use was in maraschino cherries.
Yes you are right, but at my age time stands still......it was year ago.
I remember Otto telling me that they brought the maraschino cherries,
bleached from Italy and that they put red dye into here on this side of
the ocean. We are a bit crazy at times..... and they are not even very
tasty either.
>
> >anymore. So dyeing with harmless dyes is better, and onion skins give a
> >lovely dye and it smels nice as well.
> >
> I dare say some would disagree on the smell. To each their own!
I love the smell of Onion soup..but indeed to each their own....grin....
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>> There was one red that was determined to be carcinogenic but it has been
>> off the market for years. Its primary use was in maraschino cherries.
>
>Yes you are right, but at my age time stands still......it was year ago.
>I remember Otto telling me that they brought the maraschino cherries,
>bleached from Italy and that they put red dye into here on this side of
>the ocean. We are a bit crazy at times..... and they are not even very
>tasty either.
Time does even weirder things than standing still. It leaks through your
fingers when you're not looking! Crazy is right. Never have liked those
dyed cherries!
>> >anymore. So dyeing with harmless dyes is better, and onion skins give a
>> >lovely dye and it smels nice as well.
>> >
>> I dare say some would disagree on the smell. To each their own!
>
>I love the smell of Onion soup..but indeed to each their own....grin....
I do, too, but many don't. DH always comments about soup for dinner when I
use onion skins.
llama mama
news:3f0c873d$0$152$a186...@newsreader.visi.com:
> Funny . . . a few months ago, I didn't think I'd get past knitting
> scarves. Then I start seeing and reading about other things to do.
> Suddenly I'm trying a sweater -- then socks -- now dying wool -- a
> few more months here, I'm going to be wanting to raise and shear my
> own sheep! :)
oh? how about a lovely yearling Angora whether (neutered male goat)?
he's technically black, but actually a nice silver grey with a soft,
nicely crimped fleece.he stands still for shearing like a good boy too,
but isn't crazy about getting his toenails trimmed...
or a llama? i have a black gelding or a 3 year old white & grey male
(due for gelding this fall) or a 4 year old *very* heavy wooled brown
female...
not that i really want to part with any of them, but i'm willing to pass
along my addictions<g>.
lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)
Karen
"llama mama" <eni...@empire.net> wrote in message
news:Xns93B685C9FA59...@199.125.85.9...
Love to, except I suspect my townhouse association might have a problem with
them. :)
llama mama
news:3f104fd1$0$157$a186...@newsreader.visi.com:
goats & llamas can be housebroken ;) but i do think Radar wouldn't be
too happy being a housegoat. i do need to work on bringing the llamas
inside, because once i get them used to it we can visit nursing homes &
kid's hospitals...
sd13sd_no...@yahoo.com
It dyes with wool dyes and using KoolAid isn't going to give you a
fast, non-fading color, but maybe you don't mind?
Go to Dharma's web site and you can buy a little dye for it (wool has
to be simmered with acetic acid = vinegar to set it)
Dharma (no connection to me) is www.dharmatrading.com Here are their
yarn dyeing instructions: http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/ad.html
for wool.
I have dyeing instructions on our web site (we haven't sold dye in 20
years, but I put my instructions up for multi-color dyeing here:
http://www.straw.com/sig/multipot.html
Susan
Susan Druding
Straw Into Gold - Crystal Palace Yarns
http://www.straw.com
sd13sd_no...@yahoo.com
acetic acid is to go to a photo supply shop to buy it - it's a
slightly diluted variety used in photo darkrooms, but a small bottle =
gallons of vinegar and is reasonable in price and not strong enough to
hurt you.
Susan
Susan Druding
Straw Into Gold - Crystal Palace Yarns
http://www.straw.com
Ophelia
> Go to Dharma's web site and you can buy a little dye for it (wool has
> to be simmered with acetic acid = vinegar to set it)
They only ship to US and Canada. Sue and I are in UK
Ophelia
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>If you do very much dyeing the easiest and least expensive way to get
>acetic acid is to go to a photo supply shop to buy it - it's a
>slightly diluted variety used in photo darkrooms, but a small bottle =
>gallons of vinegar and is reasonable in price and not strong enough to
>hurt you.
More concentrated acetic acid in small bottles is also available at Asian
grocery stores. Very cheap.
Helen "Halla" Fleischer
>It dyes with wool dyes and using KoolAid isn't going to give you a
>fast, non-fading color, but maybe you don't mind?
In my experience every Koolaid color except grape is exceedingly light fast
and wash fast. Grape is not as light fast in the sunny window test, but has
still held up nicely for 15 years in a sweater. YMMV
Erica Gardener
your backyard garden. I'm into gardening and recently discovered, via
The Compleat Botanica (http://www.crescentbloom.com) that many of my
favorite flowers also double as natural dyes. Usually its the leaves,
bark or roots that provide the color. Yes they need a mordant to fix
the color to the fabric, but even a cursory look at the library
reveals a few milder acids that you can use.
Erica Gardener