OT - bells are ringing!
Irrational Number
are ringing in St. Peter's!
-- Anita --
the black rose
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger is now Pope Benedict XVI.
An interesting choice of names. The new pontiff will certainly keep the
Catholic Church on the same heading as his predecessor John Paul II (may
he rest in peace).
--
the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
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Melissa in NJ
the Catholic Church on the same heading as his predecessor John Paul II
(may he rest in peace). "
Which unfortunately the Catholic church doesn't need. My husband read
they wanted an old pope age-wise and and old school pope views-wise.
For the world the Catholic church lives in (modern world, internet,
instant news, etc.) and the problems it is facing (the whole sex
scandal stuff and the further deteriorating levels of people joining to
be nuns and priests among other things) the Catholic church needed a
younger in touch Pope open to new view and ways of thinking. This new
pope is not that.
I am not Catholic (my DH is) so I have no vested interest in what the
Catholic church does or does not do...but I personally think that now
that the church is going to decline further sadly when it had a real
opportunity for revitalization and growth.
Just my two cents!!!!
Melissa in NJ
the black rose
> "An interesting choice of names. The new pontiff will certainly keep
> the Catholic Church on the same heading as his predecessor John Paul II
> (may he rest in peace). "
>
> Which unfortunately the Catholic church doesn't need. My husband read
> they wanted an old pope age-wise and and old school pope views-wise.
> For the world the Catholic church lives in (modern world, internet,
> instant news, etc.) and the problems it is facing (the whole sex
> scandal stuff and the further deteriorating levels of people joining to
> be nuns and priests among other things) the Catholic church needed a
> younger in touch Pope open to new view and ways of thinking. This new
> pope is not that.
I have to warn ya, I'm an Orthodox Christian. Orthodoxy isn't just any
Christianity -- it's iron-fortified, steel-belted Christianity. We
spend a third of each calendar year fasting. Those who don't like
Catholicism will really hate us. We believe in metanoia -- the change
of heart. It is not the Church which must change, it is the hearts and
minds of those living in the world which must change, must become
conformed to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Modern people sometimes
don't understand this, which is a pity -- but not a reason to change the
teaching.
> I am not Catholic (my DH is) so I have no vested interest in what the
> Catholic church does or does not do...but I personally think that now
> that the church is going to decline further sadly when it had a real
> opportunity for revitalization and growth.
Revitalization at what cost? The possibility that the Catholic Church
will decline isn't a good enough reason to change fundamental moral
teachings. Conservative religious orders are blooming while liberal
ones are in desperate decline. The Catholic Church is growing and vital
in exactly those parts of the world which are not infected with
modernism: Africa and Latin America, and the African Cardinals and
Bishops are about as conservative as Roman Catholics can get. The
wheezing warriors of the liberal left would have us believe that
conservativism is the death of Catholicism. I beg to disagree. The
Catholic Church is only withering in those parts of the world that are
most liberal.
> Just my two cents!!!!
And mine! :-)
A&T
"the black rose" <blackro...@netscape.net>
> >
>
We believe in metanoia -- the change
> of heart. It is not the Church which must change, it is the hearts and
> minds of those living in the world which must change, must become
> conformed to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Modern people sometimes
> don't understand this, which is a pity -- but not a reason to change the
> teaching.
>
This is the whole thing in a nutshell. I would rather see the church stay
faithful to
it's teachings and lose members in America, than have America change the
Roman Catholic church.
I get sick of hearing 'The American Catholic Church'. There is NO American
Catholic Church, however, there are Roman Catholic Churches in America.
Tricia
(who is devoutly Catholic by conversion, not cradle)
Sharon Harper
Church is only withering in those parts of the world that are most liberal."
priesthood in the whole of Ireland last year? I wouldn't call Ireland an
overly liberal area and 26 enterents into priesthood from a whole country
does not sound like much.
I am a very lapsed Catholic from reasons of disgust (went to them in my time
of need and was promptly given priestly advice and asked "so how much of
your weekly income can you donate to the church?") and am not overly
concerned about it but perhaps if the church concerned themselves less with
monetary and more with taking care of their flock, they would have more
devotees.
Just my 5 cents (2 cents has been outlawed here!)
--
Sharon from Melbourne Australia (Queen of Down Under)
http://www.geocities.com/shazrules/craft.html (takes a while to load)
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quicker)
"the black rose" <blackro...@netscape.net> wrote in message
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Melissa in NJ
faithful to
it's teachings and lose members in America, than have America change the
Roman Catholic church."
So on that thinking...only America is the modern world? I was encompassing
all the modern world in my post, not just America!
What a neat OT thread for discussion!
Melissa in NJ
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A&T
I was commenting on the change part in the reply to your post.
I don't think it is unfortunate for the church at all that it will
apparently stay conservative and keep its doctrines and teachings in place.
It isn't a democracy where majority rules.
The Catholic Churches in America thought was just an add on to the post
because of how I feel.
I just feel like the people of America (where I live, so it's their media I
see) expect the church -- to hop to it, get with it, accept the way life has
changed, etc. -- and it shouldn't be that way.
If people don't like the Catholic Church and its teachings, there are at
least a thousand other churches to choose from.
The church shouldn't change.
Tricia
http://photos.yahoo.com/momiixii
Arlinda
teachings and doctrines (I am Catholic--certainly not the best but I keep
trying in spite of myself). I heard American Catholics described on TV
today as "Cafeteria Catholics" who like to pick & choose our beliefs.
Arlinda in FL
"A&T" <an...@noearthlink.net> wrote in message
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DrQuilter
catholic church to the 21st century. instead they went with the head of
the modern form of the inquisition, an ultra conservative cardinal that
was behind the repression of the theology of liberation church in Latin
America (those guys were really trying to help the poor and needy) -
more people getting HIV in Africa due to their anti-condom policy, no
progress in terms of gay rights within the church, or possibility for
women that woul like to be priests...
the black rose wrote:
> Irrational Number wrote:
>
>> There is white smoke coming out and bells
>> are ringing in St. Peter's!
>>
>> -- Anita --
>>
>>
>
> Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger is now Pope Benedict XVI.
>
> An interesting choice of names. The new pontiff will certainly keep the
> Catholic Church on the same heading as his predecessor John Paul II (may
> he rest in peace).
>
--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out before replying)
DrQuilter
that is a gross generalization) & the feeling I get every time I go
there is that the catholic church is loosing ground to evangelists ...
but I am one of those "wheezing warriors of the liberal left', what do I
know, uh?
the black rose wrote:
.... The Catholic Church is growing and vital
> in exactly those parts of the world which are not infected with
> modernism: Africa and Latin America, and the African Cardinals and
> Bishops are about as conservative as Roman Catholics can get. The
> wheezing warriors of the liberal left would have us believe that
> conservativism is the death of Catholicism. I beg to disagree. The
> Catholic Church is only withering in those parts of the world that are
> most liberal.
SNIGDIBBLY
local church. Father Mike is the coolest priest and is so loving and kind.
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"Melissa in NJ" <Melis...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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SNIGDIBBLY
come from the leadership in various churches. I get the tithing envelopes
thru the mail and the basket is passed at mass but have never heard Father
Mike ask for money from the pulpit. At the end of the year of I get the
letter that advises the members of the financial state and also a letter for
IRS verifying my annual donations. We just built a new addition to our
church because we outgrew it. We have a Catholic elementary school but
currently high school students have to go to Subatico near Little Rock.
Father Mike and the laity were excellent during the time after I lost my
husband and during my illness. Never once did they ask for anything. I am
sorry you were treated in such a horrible way and don't blame you a bit for
feeling like you do.
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"Sharon Harper" <shar...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
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"DrQuilter" <mvig...@dogu.washington.edu> wrote in message
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Sharon Harper
around. I was doing that with my pocket money as a kid. But your
mentioning when you lost your husband bought up another thought. When my
nanna passed recently, my uncle happily gave a large donation to the Father
(even though both my nanna and I detested him) and to his helper the nun who
spoke at Nanna's service. I'm okay with that. Then when the nun asked for a
$200 "donation" to say a mass for nanna, I saw red. My uncle paid and when
he turned up on the set Sunday for the mass - no nun, no mass, and no
knowledge of her whereabouts. In the meantime, on the day nanna was buried
both she and the Father had been urging my mum and uncle (who were in no fit
state to talk about anything) to sell nanna's house, and belongings quickly
"to get over their grief" and the church would be happy to help them
"invest" the proceeds. Yeah, straight into their pockets. I had to step in
then, I couldn't help myself. So help me if I could have overcome my
upbringing I'd have decked the two of them.
And yet I can remember Father Hogan from my early childhood who took me for
my communion and confirmation. He was the ideal priest, someone I would
like to believe Jesus was like. I would have walked over hot coals for him,
just a wonderful, wonderful man. Guess it all depends doesn't it?
--
Sharon from Melbourne Australia (Queen of Down Under)
http://www.geocities.com/shazrules/craft.html (takes a while to load)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shazrules/my_photos (same as website but
quicker)
"SNIGDIBBLY" <snigd...@cox.net> wrote in message
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the black rose
> ... or the possibility of Priests being able to marry.
>
If you think a married priesthood would solve the vocations crisis, just
take a glance at the Orthodox Church. We *do* have a married
priesthood, and we *still* have the same vocations crisis.
And the Protestants have a married clergy and they still have sex abuse
scandals. They're just not as juicy a target as the Catholic Church, so
you don't hear about them so much.
Two things are going on with vocations to the priesthood. One is, both
Churches are suffering from decades of people praying -- not in as many
words, but in essence -- "God give us priests, but keep your hands off
my sons." The other is, for decades popular culture has been making the
priesthood look like the worst life in the world, so most intelligent
young men won't even consider it.
As for the ordination of women, the Catholic Church clearly teaches they
don't have the authority to ordain women, it's not something that can be
dialogued about. Don't look at me, that's what they teach (I'm not
Catholic, I just live with them). But I have to admit I don't
understand why people keep whining about this issue when the answer is
pretty clear. It's like trying to talk to children who don't want
Grandma to die -- it is the way it is, whether we like it or not. The
Catholic Church isn't going to change something she doesn't have the
authority to change.
The silliest thing I've seen written since this whole thing started with
JP II's death was, "What about nuns, why can't a nun have the right to
get married?" Uhhhh. That one left me speechless. Someone just
doesn't get it.
One of the funniest things I've seen since yesterday is, "God's
Rottweiler is now more of a German Shepherd." ba DUM dum
SNIGDIBBLY
all read the horror stories about leaders of different churches being down
right criminals and sometimes abusers & murderers. I feel really blessed
that we have Father Mike. I know as a Child Abuse investigator I saw a lot
of children abused as the result of their parents religious beliefs - both
sexually and physically. The horrible things that people do and then blame
on our Creator never ceases to amaze me.
--
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"Sharon Harper" <shar...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
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SNIGDIBBLY
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"the black rose" <blackro...@netscape.net> wrote in message
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teleflora
> catholic church to the 21st century. instead they went with the head of
> the modern form of the inquisition, an ultra conservative cardinal that
> was behind the repression of the theology of liberation church in Latin
> America (those guys were really trying to help the poor and needy) - more
> people getting HIV in Africa due to their anti-condom policy, no progress
> in terms of gay rights within the church, or possibility for women that
> woul like to be priests...
>
The guy is like 80 years old. It appears they were looking for an interim
Pope, until the Church can decide in which direction it is going.
The next choice will be the telling one.
Cindy
teleflora
>
> The Catholic Church is only withering in those parts of the world that
> are most liberal.
>
Well, ya know what? I don't want to belong to Mel Gibson's hate filled
Catholic Church. I want to belong to the Church of my childhood that
focused on helping families and wasn't involved in politics. Who stood up
for working people and spoke against the excesses of the Corporate world.
They were the voice for the poor and the money that was given to the church
was used to help the church family, not to give donations to political
candidates who pander to the right.
When I saw my church align itself with the far right conservative movement
because they perceived an ally in their stand against abortion, they lost my
support. The allies they grew to embrace don't support any other aspect of
church teaching.
So, if the Church is withering, I guess it's because of people like me who
can't abide the hypocrisy anymore.
Cindy
SNIGDIBBLY
thought good in the past we have learned today to be tainted. The church is
made up of people and is only as good as the people who make it.
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SNIGDIBBLY
comments about this new Pope and it appears they are trying to present a
very middle of the road Pope to the public today. I'm just watching and
praying.
--
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"teleflora" <tele...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Elizabeth Young
ground in latin america to evangelists)
liz young in cool california
Elizabeth Young
professor explained it to us this way: (paraphrase) the conclave tends
to pick an old man to follow a long-serving pope; a man who will
probably continue the policies of the previous pope. Then the cardnals
can think for a few years about who they _really_ want to be pope.
liz young in cool california
DrQuilter
Elizabeth Young wrote:
> Yeah, the usual pattern is young pope followed by old pope - my
> professor explained it to us this way: (paraphrase) the conclave tends
> to pick an old man to follow a long-serving pope; a man who will
> probably continue the policies of the previous pope. Then the cardnals
> can think for a few years about who they _really_ want to be pope.
>
> liz young in cool california
--
teleflora
> So sad but such a reality in the world we live in. So many things that we
> thought good in the past we have learned today to be tainted. The church
> is made up of people and is only as good as the people who make it.
> --
So, I go for the Mass and the music and tune out everything else. And try
to live as good a life as I know how to do.
Cindy
SNIGDIBBLY
good life. Isn't it a part of the hippocratic oath - or something like it -
"First ... do no harm..." That's what I make a conscious effort to do
everyday. I try to live my life in such a way that I do no harm to anyone
or anything.
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"teleflora" <tele...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Taria
at around 13. Tried but never was able to believe the church
line (which is too bad cause going to heaven isn't easier
anywhere else than for catholics imo) I did always feel comfortable
and at peace in a catholic church. The good and the bad in
that seemed that there was little interaction among the flock.
They come, do their thing and leave without really any community
spirit. I always thought that was weird but in that group I was able
to find a quiet peace.
Taria