OT : overgifted child
angel
Well, it's really OT today. I'd like to have your advices and experiences,
you friends and mothers yourselves, about a very hard problem I have with my
first son. He is 15 years old, named Charles-Elie, and he's what is usual to
call a gifted child, with more than 140 points of IQ. That's not great but a
real problem. He is so cute, helpful and interesting but so different... And
he suffers alot.
Nothing here is done for these children. Schools, teachers, other pupils
mainly don't want them because no one understand nor bear their behaviours
and knowledges. The only answer, here, is : it's a psychiatric trouble ! Who
can accept that intelligence is psychiatric trouble ? Sometimes I really
think I'm in USSR or China !
He is just different, knows alot of things, reads alot, has really
interesting discussions on various subjects, wants to help everyone, loves
pumkins and funny witches, etc... and doesn't understand at all why people
sweep him away or joke on him. Because he understands alot of things he
suffers alot. And I admit i'm sometimes afraid he could suicide....
He wants to be director or archeologue (archeologist ?), he's specially
interessed in archeo linguistics. I hope he'll reach his ideals, he 'll find
at least happiness and serenity and I help him the best I can even if I
don't know what to do some days.
Would you share your experience with me in telling if you have ever heard of
those kind of problems, if you meet people who are the same and what do you
think about all that ?
Thanks in advance,
hugs
Christine
As far as quilting, I began a new quilt in "shooting star". Charles-Elie is
involved in piecing because it needs 450 ecru squares and 900 little ones in
scraps. No problem here, he loves piecing and want to sew himself some
parts. Good boy indeed !
BZQLTR
Your son sounds like a wonderful boy.
Just remember most 15 have a lot to deal with these days. Life is much harder
for them than it was for us. Try to help him realize that all 15 years olds
feel 'different'. Sometimes kids are cruel to cover for their own feelings of
insecurity. It will get better as he gets older.
Most kids this age can benefit from psychiatric help just to deal with everyday
stress. The right person can help your son realise that he isn't so different
from the other kids and help him to direct his energy in useful ways. Seeking
psychiatric help is not considered a negative thing here in the USA especially
if it helps to keep our children alive.
My daughters class is school was very unusual in that many of the students
(maybe half of the class) were considered gifted students. Fortunately, the
school worked hard meet the students needs. Many of the high school classes
were actually college level classes. We are very lucky because our community
also works to give the children outlets for their energy.
The students who do the best are the ones that get involved is things that
interest them just to have fun. The students who are striving to get the best
grades and always do their 'best' are the ones who have the most stress.
One of my daughter's friends did commit suicide. It was a tragic waste of a
life. I don't think he realized how many friends he really had.
Sending you hugs,
Sherry & the zoo - washing fabric today, and getting organized.....one of these
days I might get to quilt again...
Roberta Zollner
Charles-Elie sounds like a wonderful person, please don't call him
OVERgifted. It's very hard not to be "normal", especially for a teenager.
Some kids learn to hide their gift so they can fit in, and that's sad but
understandable: at least they aren't labeled "psychiatric problems". Maybe
he can find a society in cyberspace that matches his interests?
One problem is that everyone expects a gifted child to be good at
Everything. But usually the gifts are in particular areas, e.g. math/logic.
I have a young friend who's a math genius but very backward in social
skills. It was hard for him to learn how to work at learning (since academic
knowledge came easily) so he could master social skills that were outside
his gifts.
Another option you could try might be a scholarship at a university in the
USA. I assume C-E is not a US citizen, but it might still be possible. Start
researching the problem now, call your local Fulbright office, write some
application letters. If it works, it will give your son something to look
forward to. My friend had a 4-year full scholarship, completed all the
university's math courses in 3 years, stayed the extra year to fulfill
required courses, and was awarded bachelor's and master's degrees
simultaneously. He matriculated at age 16.
Roberta in DK
"angel" <christin...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8o0jb2$hdg$1...@wanadoo.fr...
Kathryn Groves
extremely bright. (The youngest has a disorder that has caused him some
problems.) At times school as been difficult for them to. During the
high school years, ambition, dedication, a strong work ethic and
intelligence are SIGNIFICANTLY undervalued -- by other high school students.
These kids are often considered GEEKS or FREAKS (to borrow the title of a TV
show) -- and not included in many social activities or are often the victim
of verbal attacks.
As a parent, what you can do is to continue to value and reward these
attributes. Look for opportunities for your son to use his gifts to help
others. I'm not sure where you are from, but I'm sure you can find
opportunities for your son to spend time helping others less fortunate.
Help him to see how the rest of the world values him, his values, his
abilities -- so that he does not have only his "peers" to gauge his
self-worth.
In my opinion, these types of opportunities would be much better than a
weekly visit to a psychiatrist/psychologist -- unless there are already
signs of emotional self-abuse or other "warning" signs.
Too often, children hear only two voices -- their parents and their peers.
They know their parents are biased -- so their opinions are immediately
discounted. And especially during the teenage years -- peer image is
important. So take your son to the nearest hospital -- and let him read to
children with cancer, help tutor children hospitalized during recovery from
injuries or accidents... and I can pretty much guarantee that his value of
himself will climb quickly.
Kathy Applebaum
> Would you share your experience with me in telling if you have ever heard of
> those kind of problems, if you meet people who are the same and what do you
> think about all that ?
Been there, done that. I was fortunate in that my parents understood
that school was boring because it was too easy.
What literally saved my sanity as a child was that my parents encouraged
me to challenge the school into giving me an education rather than
holding me back. (And the true education came from learning to deal with
bureaucracy! LOL)
Having attended lycee in France (I was an exchange student for my last
year of high school), I can say that it would be more difficult there,
but not impossible. But it's very important for Charles-Elie to have
something, whether in school or out, that is a challenge for him.
--
Kathy Applebaum
Kayney Quilting (longarm machine quilting)
Kayney...@compuserve.com
Julia F N Altshuler
In_. I can't remember the authors, but Amazon Books should help there.
The basic premise of the book is that there are 100's of types of
intelligences, and they can all be taught. If a child were falling behind
his classmates in math, we would find the necessary tutors or books or
practice to help him catch up. But if a child is falling behind his
classmates in the skills needed to make friends or to get along with
difficult people, we tend to say to ourselves that he'll catch up on his
own or that it doesn't matter. The book then gets very specific in the
particular skills needed to get along with people.
I didn't use the book when I was a child (it wasn't around then), but it
was enormously helpful for me in understanding what went wrong when I was
in elementary school. I was the 2nd worst nerd in the school. In 5th
grade a gang of bullies concentrated on making my life miserable by
making fun of me constantly. There was one boy in the school who had it
worse. The book turned on the lights for me. I was bad at half the
skills mentioned in the book. He was terrible at all of them. (I don't
mean to excuse the bullies, but I haven't heard of them for years so I'm
no longer concerned with them.) Correct the problems with social skills,
and the social problems went away. I had to learn them on my own and
managed, but the book explains how some people go through life always
wondering what's the matter with them.
Try seeing your son's problems in terms of learnable skills. Also, are
their other kids around who share his interests and are as smart? Maybe
not at school but in some other group? A single friend his own age can
make a huge difference.
There's a common misconception that the person who goes in for
psychotherapy is the one who is wrong or crazy or at fault. In reality
the person who goes in for psychotherapy is the one who is in pain.
Maybe a counselor could help. (There are terrible counselors out there
just as there are people in every profession who terrible at what they do
so you have to be especially careful. It's particularly important to get
a good one since there's such an unever power dynamic between doctor and
patient in this case.)
Keep us informed on how he's doing. We all care.
--Lia
--
Joan8904
themselves in different ways, given their different talents. Now in their
mid-20's, they are rewarded for their talents, not ridiculed. We fostered
their interests and that seems to have reinforced their feelings of worth.
joan o'reilly
311 fan club
8904 florence drive
bellevue ne 68147
Singer
Duke, Ph.D. I own this book and also recommend it. It took me over 38 years
to begin to learn why I was treated as I was throughout 12 years of hell in
school. My older son (age 12-1/2) also has problems with social skills.
Through instruction at school (emotional support special education class)
and at home, he is slowly learning the friendship skills that seem to come
so naturally to most children. Wish someone had cared enough to do so for
me.
Singer (also a 'nerd')
Julia F N Altshuler <d000...@dc.seflin.org> wrote in message
news:8o1bd6$l...@nntp.seflin.org...
Pamela Epp
especially if peers would ever find out about it. Sometimes organizations
like big friend/little friend or local churches can point him to someone
who he could talk to other than parents/peers. If their is a way to
utilize the area he is gifted in. and not the areas where their is less
ease , it could increase the self esteem. The behavior problems could
stem from not being able to express himself. and most school systems don't
want to deal with them. It is a pity that our youth is falling through the
cracks of society. because WE don't have time to listen to what they really
are saying instead of judging by the behavior they are demonstrating.
--
sdquilter
> Would you share your experience with me in telling if you have ever heard
of
> those kind of problems, if you meet people who are the same and what do
you
> think about all that ?
joyce...@my-deja.com
> involved in piecing because it needs 450 ecru squares and 900 little
ones in
> scraps. No problem here, he loves piecing and want to sew himself some
> parts. Good boy indeed !
Christine,
I've read the other posts and agree with them; time will help your son
as will the support you give him. Is there any possibility your son
could become involved in volunteer work? Even though it may make him
feel even more "different" from his peer group, the satisfactions of
using his gifts to help others could help him immensely.
I attended an elementary school in which all the students from third
grade on, attended classes based on their abilities in the particular
subject. In fifth grade, I reorganized the school library and was given
access to college level texts.
When I went to junior high school it was quite a shock to see everyone
expected to follow the same lesson plans, no matter their ability. I
adjusted by adding extra curricular activities to my schedule.
The teen years weren't fun by any means but if your son can establish
even one friendship with someone else considered different, it could
make a world of differnce for them both.
Please let us know how he progresses.
Joyce in DE
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nurse Ratched
web site is at http://www.mensa.org My experience (both personal and
observational) is that highly intelligent people are often socially backward.
I don't know why this is, only that it seems to be almost universal. If he
gets involved with Mensa, he will encounter many people just like himself and
will fit in well. Good luck.
Nurse Ratched
a semi-nerd married to another one
+Kathy Morris
I just discussed this with my DH, because at the age of 6 he had a tested IQ of
168. He skipped two grades, graduated at 15, although they wanted to skip him
ahead even further. He said he would spend all day at school just reading his
books. The teachers didn't even bother to try and teach him because he was so
far ahead. His opinion is this: Find something that he is interested in and
immerse him in it. My DH loved computer's and drama. His mother was a dean at
The University of South Carolina and would take him with her to work. A
gentleman in the computer department befriended him and tought him computers.
He's been programming since he was 11 and had to use punch cards. As for drama,
he won several drama awards at his school. Being involved in things he was
interested in helped him to overlook the remarks made by other's although it
wasn't easy. But then again, my DH is unusual in the sense that he truly doesn't
care what other's think about him. I wish I could be like that!
In the long run, he turned out just find! But, because of his experience with
school and the lack of help for an "overly" gifted child, he does not want us to
send out child (hopefully children) to school and wants to homeschool them. I'm
torn, but we'll work that out.
+Kathy
When "angel" <christin...@wanadoo.fr> speaks, people listen. And on Wed,
23 Aug 2000 15:15:33 +0200, we heard:
>As far as quilting, I began a new quilt in "shooting star". Charles-Elie is
>involved in piecing because it needs 450 ecru squares and 900 little ones in
>scraps. No problem here, he loves piecing and want to sew himself some
>parts. Good boy indeed !
>
>
>
+Kathy
Issaquah, Washington
kmo...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~kmorris
+++++++++++++++++
"When facing a difficult task, act as though it is impossible to fail. If
you are going after Moby Dick, take along the tartar sauce."
Tricia Rodgers
was teh label I got very early on in life that still follows me). I think it's
a shame that more isn't done all over the world to challenge gifted students.
The way I got through the teen years as a GC was challenging courses (my
district did have advanced classes in Math, which I love and I got special
dispensation to do my own thing with Science, skipping ahead and doing
independant studies when I ran out of school science courses to take on site),
being friends with at least one other GC (my best friend from 5-9th grade scored
4 points higher than me and liked to toos it around at me, but she understood
what it was like to be "different". We lost contact after we moved to different
districts...luckily I found people to get along with my advanced math courses),
and at times, playing stupid. Not airheaded stupid, but certainly kept my
tongue in check and just decided to veg out and relax rather than worry about my
assignments at times.....
Luckily I crafted even when I was very young so I busied myself with that a lot
of the time....and spending time with kids who didn't know what I could do
academically in a local Boys and Girls Club where I learned to shoot pool, play
pente, and work with wood projects. I didn't hang out witha lot of kids I went
to school with outside of school.....I hung out with the kids from the Club who
cam efrom all over, were different in so many ways and it was celebrated.
Good luck with him......
Tricia
PS counseling can be a good thing...just havign someone adult who is
non-judgemental to talk to can really help too.....
angel wrote:
--
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The Brown Family
I also have, what they call a "gifted child". He is 12 and so far we've had
no problems, he skipped grade 1, and has always been in the gifted program,
made the honor roll this year in grade 7. He's quite a normal child in
other ways. He's very tiny for his age, but so far has not given him any
problems, has friends that are huge.....and I think God they ARE his
friends.
So sorry to hear that your son is having problems.....he sounds like a good
kid, unfortunately other kids can be so cruel sometimes.
Lorraine
"angel" <christin...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8o0jb2$hdg$1...@wanadoo.fr...
viole...@my-deja.com
I think this is the best advice I've heard in a long time, and should
be taken to heart by ALL parents, and not just those of gifted
children.
angel
My son is homeschooled too and it's the best solution for him. He wanted to
go back school 2 years ago but it was so awful, people (kids and even
teachers) were cruel, so he depressed for 4 months (he was too far ahead,
kids attacked him, teachers asked him to keep silent systematically when he
wanted to bring precision in a domain he knew or wanted to help other mates,
and so on).
Like your husband he asks me to play theater. He knows classical ones pretty
well but we didn't find time last year. But it could be a good idea. Another
one is to involved him in volonteer work like some of the group suggested.
He asked that himself. He's really a helpful kid thinking often to others
before him. I promised him to meet retired teachers and parents associations
to know how it could settle (and set up).
He has various interests. It was both sciences and politic before but for
some months he's in crafts, any kinds : watercolour paintings, dried
flowers, he makes his own clothes (he asks me to buy white cotton clothes
and he dyes them and draws on the fabric. It's funny indeed ! He says that
he doens't care of what people could say about his clothes as soon as he
feels at ease inside) I encourage him to create and to developp his
artistic "talents". Dear friend quilter I think that to discover and to
create is very important, huh ?
Thanks again to you and your DH,
Christine (from Paris, Fr)
+Kathy Morris <kmo...@mindspring.com> a écrit dans le message :
39a4bd07....@news.newsguy.com...
Marissa Vignali
overgifted (and I agree with what somebody said earlier, how can you be too
intelligent? Good for him!) or to sound conceited, but I went through some of
this stuff (even if my IQ was never over 140, I don't think! :o).
As most of you know, I am getting my PhD in Biochemistry this fall (not so young
as I could have, as I preferred to travel and I've lived in Europe and the
States since I left home with my BSc under my belt 7 years ago), and I am going
to work in this genome stuff next year, while DH is getting his degree in
quantum chemistry and he is going to work in growth of ice crystals (who
remembers Smilla's sense of snow?). So we've both been through this. But I think
that now we are more "cool" to our peers.. maybe not as cool as a surfer or a
MBA with a cell phone and a Miata, but you kind of find your niche, specially
once you hit grad school.
Also, it is true as someone mentioned, that being "intelectually mature" does
not go with emotional matureness.... and that it is difficult to go through high
school and college when you are doing better than anybody else...for example,
you can't show any pride in your accomplishments. Kids are cruel and react by
making fun of you and trying to make your life impossible (I sometimes found my
books spread around the classroon - and it was partly my fault, as I reacted to
it the way they expected me to!). Another thing that is true is that you cannot
be expected to excel in everything, for example I was never good at sports and I
was not very interested in them and that made it even worse, kind of reinforces
your nerdy qualities... (and taking quilting now hasn't helped either, nobody
thinks quilters are cool, go figure! :o)
Anyway, it only gets better, and it opens you lots of doors. We wouldn't be
here, doing really exciting scientific stuff, if we hadn't excelled. Too bad you
have to go through rough times because of it, but it is worth it.
--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Marissa Vignali email: mg...@psu.edu
http://www.bmb.psu.edu/597a/stdnts96/Vignali/default.htm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Getting ready for the real millenium....
Donna in Bellevue
You'll fit in perfectly up here in Seattle. My DS#2 is a PhD in analytical
chemistry and his DW is a PhD (ABD) in mideval history. There are lots of
brainy people up here and the UW is teeming with them and some of them are
quilters. I think you'll like it here if you can get past the winter
weather doldrums.
Email me to let me know when and where you'll be getting here and we'll set
up a PNW-PSW(for our friends in Canada) get-together.
--
Donna in Bellevue, WA USofA
MAmadurk
Marissa Vignali wrote in message <39A7C66B...@psu.edu>...
(who
>remembers Smilla's sense of snow?).
Oh!! ME!! I saw that once!! With a friend, whom I consider very
intelligent!!
(and taking quilting now hasn't helped either, nobody
>thinks quilters are cool, go figure! :o)
Oh! Now...you just tread lightly girl and think about what you are saying!!!
I happen to know more than a few quilters and we ALL think quilters are
cool!!
So there!
MAmadurk, so happy to have you back Marissa! We've missed you!
karlo
but from the other side for the fence - I am a teacher and I teach children
from grades 1 - 7. Not at once mind you but i have had my range of time in
almost all parts of this group. I understand the parents plight with
extremely bright, gifted and talented children. It's not only those brainy
ones that suffer but any child who shows above average intelligence that can
be considered in this group. It seems as teachers we are all to ready to
identify those children that are at risk and need our help to be literate or
to survive in todays world. Im not sure where you live and what goes on in
your school but we found quite a few years ago a need from the teachers and
parents who approached us to implement a goal that we were not only going to
identify children at risk but those who are gifted or talented and to try
and include some areas in our individual programs where they could be
extended. Now a few problems can be caused by this - one as someone I dont
know who mentioned it brings attention to those children as being geeks or
freeks and can make them stand out in the mist of their peers which for
these type of children all they are doing is trying to keep out of the way
and as oblivious as possible and the other problem it has is that the
teachers themselves are burdened to prepare and entire program on top of all
their work for a few students. Personally myself I see other things we have
implemented as being important for students. Some of our students are
recommended to the local university which runs gifted programs on the
weekend -away from other children at school
The types of things they do is excellerated Maths, Logic and I believe some
other areas such as Info Tech. THese areas plus others help to develop
young minds beyond their peers learning. The thing I liked about it was
that all who attend are in the same boat and that the only way the other
students would know is if they were at the program. Now it has its draw
backs like any but I do feel those few children that did go got the
extension they needed to help them to develop their gifted abilities.
Although on returning to the school everyday they found the work tiresome
(boring) and too easy they were able to extend their minds in other ways.
Personally for me I like to let my students tell me how they are doing in
class and I have extention activities in other class areas. You know
sometimes even the most brightest of child finds it hard to do some of the
more simpler things in life so including or asking your teacher to include a
life skills program in class can be an advantage - any how enough of my
rambling I hope this helps and please try at least to talk to your school -
as I said I dont know what they are like but if they had any back bone or
decency they would help or at least point you in the right direction for
taking your child to some accelerated learning class.
--
Laney
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.
Edward Phelps
http://members.iinet.net.au/~karlo/
MAmadurk <jd...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:8o9o28$16ou$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net...
CANDCMOM2
>I happen to know more than a few quilters and we ALL think quilters are
>cool!!
funny how when people find out you quilt they're first reaction after that
crunched up face look is "gee aren't you getting old." Hmmmpppp they have
nerve and by the way they go waaay to the bottom of the list of people who MUST
HAVE one of my quilts!!!