Perception of Needlework
Roben
Internet is Killing the LNS' and 'Price of MLI Charts') and the same
question keeps rolling around in my head - what is the general perception
of needlework? I had a professional person look at me while I was working
on a Hardanger piece and tell me "You sure are crafty" - I have to admit
that I *hated* that.
I personally do not think of what I do as a craft in the current sense of
the word. I like to think of it as needle art. Yes, I stitch some
'Fords' - but I also stitch some 'Mercedes'. I find myself categorizing
charts the same way - there are patterns and there are designs. Almost
anyone can stitch a One Nighter - but I like to think it takes a needle
artist to complete a project such as MLI. I expect to pay more for good
quality linen than I expect to pay for uneven Aida. I do not expect to be
treated as a serious stitcher in a place like Wal-Mart.
Just my 2 cents,
Roben
Sheena Mackenzie
as usually it is a person who does not do anything with their hands. Crafty
is actually not a nice thing to be called! Sheena
Darrell & Sarah Swaine
have had many people tell me that I am talented no matter what (craft) I am
doing whether or not it is knitting, crocheting, embroidering or cross
stitching. I just completed The Last Supper by Leisure Arts and have received
many offers to buy this piece. I have to tell them that it is not that hard and
you can do anything when you put your mind to it. I instead am going to give it
away and wait for some later years when I have nothing left in my stash to
stitch it again for myself.
You are right most of the people who call you crafty are people who do nothing
with their hands and wish they could. Offer to teach them and you might get a
surprise as they just might like to learn that it is a talent but one that you
can acquire if you work at it.
Debbie Dempsey
come across are truly fascinated by my stitching.
Don't be so thin-skinned!
Rather than be offended by the 'wrong' choice of words, from someone who is
obviously not involved in needlework, I'd take "You sure are crafty" as a
compliment.
Debbie
Lei
surprised they are that I like needlework so much because it is
so "feminine". Wait a minute, do I normally seem incredibly masculine
or something? HELLO?!?! I suppose it would be more offensive if I
were a man....
Another thing I get is that just because I have a Ph.D. in a scientific
discipline, people are surprised that I enjoy doing needlework. I have
at least 3 other Ph.D. friends and other professional friends who also
do some form of needlework. What's wrong with that?
My mother has also told me that she thinks I am "wasting" time on doing
all these things. Of course, she's happy that I enjoy doing something
so much, but as I am currently taking a 2 year break break from work
(maybe longer! who cares!), she thinks it would be a better use of my
time if I went and got a full-time job. Life is for enjoying and so I
think I'm making better use of my time now than before!
The last thing is when people tell me they're surprised because they
think that people who enjoy needlework are those who are "older" (I'm
28). I feel like decking them after that comment.
Anyway...I'll just keeping going with what I love and not care what
everyone else says. The time I've been able to spend on my needlework
has make me happier than I've ever been!
Lei
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Cross Stitch World
floor the first time I decided to bring my stitching to work. They thought
it was so totally NOT me.... Also because it was so feminine. I work as an
office manager for an internet company and its a pretty stressful job.
Stitching is THE way for me to let of some steam and relax. The reaction you
get then is that they would think that all those little stitches,
complicated patterns etc. would only get you more stressed....
Most people who do not stitch themselves have a strange view of people who
do....
But what can you do about it??
--
Jackelin
The reference site for everything about cross stitch
http://www.cross-stitch-world.com
Visit our Love Quilts Page for seriously ill children
Lei <hl...@excite.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
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Dawne Peterson
"craft". It used to mean (and I know some of you will help me out with more
precision here) a skill, something that one became accomplished in, a
craftsperson. To learn a craft meant not only mastering technique, but also
developing the mind and eye to visualise something wonderful to create with
that technique. So I think there is no argument that needlework is a craft
in the finest sense. And some is also art, and I am not going to be the one
to draw that line. (It is worth noting that magic is also a craft, where
again one learns both the traditional skills and the ability to use it for
new purposes. Real craft is not for the wussy)
But for some reason, and it really bothers me, a fine word and concept is
used to describe the act of putting more or less any stuff together to make
an object. As in, you hotglue lace and plastic flowers all over a styrofoam
egg, spray paint and say "This is my new craft." But you only make one (or
okay, one dozen if you are stuck with Sunday school) and tomorrow do another
"craft". "S/he does crafts" tends to describe that kind of activity, and
that is why we bristle a bit, when we shouldn't have to, when someone
describes us that way.
Too bad really; it's not the word "craft" but some of the junk that is made
in its name.
Dawne
JPageC
<rski...@excite.com> writes:
>I've been reading a couple of threads in the ng with keen interest ('The
>Internet is Killing the LNS' and 'Price of MLI Charts') and the same
>question keeps rolling around in my head - what is the general perception
>of needlework? I had a professional person look at me while I was working
>on a Hardanger piece and tell me "You sure are crafty" - I have to admit
>that I *hated* that.
I really dislike the word ''crafts" applied to what I do. As a
stitcher/crocheter who changes everything I do, I tend to think of my work as
folk art.
Jacqueline
Morgantown WV
--
Remove sulfur
WIPs: TW's Floral Bell Pull
An Afghan of Birds
Marilyn Gandre's Christmas Gentlemen
Pharaoh's Pet
TIAG's Mother's Tree
Pretty Pansies crochet afghan
Lionbrand's Big Easy sweater
Spudalud
>>But for some reason, and it really bothers me, a fine word and
concept is used to describe the act of putting more or less any stuff
together to make an object. As in, you hotglue lace and plastic
flowers all over a styrofoam egg, spray paint and say "This is my new
craft." <<
I have to admit, I hate it when I am described as "crafty" or as "doing
crafts" for this reason. I really do cringe at it. I do think that
people who don't do needlework of any kinds do sort of view stitching
and needlework in this way.
For some reason, it really bugs me when they refer to my knitting this
way. When I knit it's usually something that I have designed so there
is a fair bit of effort and thought in it. When I stitch, I am
generally following someone else's designs fairly closely. It's sort of
like a paint by the numbers kit; there's people who just slap the paint
on and some who are truly skilled and even though they are doing
someone elses' work it is uniquely their own. I don't think most people
realize that. I think the word "crafts" when used by a non-needleworker
brings up thoughts of terrible craft show items, made in high
quantities, poor quality (and often times really ugly--no offense to
those of you out there who do quality craft show stuff, there are some
gems out there!). Then there is the stigma against the "homemade" item,
many people think that it's a substitute for the storebought stuff
(especially when you give a gift, the ones who don't appreciate it
probably think you're just too cheap to go shopping! LOL)
I do personally hate the word "crafts". I think a lot of "crafters" do,
with the kind of fervor of a devoted specialist. Crocheters hate it
when you call their work "knitting" (my dad used to do that, drove me
crazy!). It's the same kind of thing, no one really means any harm--but
it does still set one's teeth on edge. I also hate it when the floss is
referred to as "thread" (even though it really is a type of thread--my
favorite was when a long time sewer asked me if it wasn't expensive to
buy that many different colored spools of thread!). Even my husband
refers to my various things as "crafts". He used to go into Walmart or
Michaels and ask for help picking out a gift, just telling the
cashiers "My wife does crafts" (you can imagine the kind of things he
came home with!). He's since learned better at least <G>, he knows what
stores to go into and they know me well enough to pick something out!
--
Spudalud
"Telling the truth can be dangerous business
Honest and popular don't go hand in hand
If you admit that you can play the accordian
No one will hire you in a rock 'n roll band . . ."
(song from "Ishtar")
Sheena Mackenzie
won't go there) that have come in for abuse in the modern sense as well but
since that is the one often applied to me, it does offend. Sheena
Sheena Mackenzie
other sympathizers! Sheena
Lirio
>discipline, people are surprised that I enjoy doing needlework. I have
>at least 3 other Ph.D. friends and other professional friends who also
>do some form of needlework. What's wrong with that?
>
Hehe. I went to college and grad school in the early 70's, also in science,
right when the big feminist issues were hitting the campuses. I actually had
one fellow female grad student yell at me for doing quilting. I should leave
all that behind me, that women were trying to gain respect in the real world,
and that I was conveying the wrong image. Well. I'm afraid you've run into two
stereotypes, that needlearts are purely feminine and domestic, and that a woman
in science doesn't practice the domestic arts and is not entirely 'feminine'.
Maggie
Lirio
>artisan. I do many other crafts and I don't actually mind them being called
>crafts. I sculpt, paint, and do a ton of faux finishing. I've been called
>an
>artist by some, a crafter by others, but in the long run...if someone I
>really
>didn't KNOW said "Oh, you're crafty" I'd regard that as a jealous slam and
>say,
Yup. I also paint my own walls, weave, lay tile floors, etc. Right now I have
my own finishing business for the LNS. I just like to make things. I'm always
trying to get people around me to try things themselves when they say, oh
you're so crafty. Don't have much success.
Maggie
Mavia Beaulieu
is to make it more visible. Instead of keeping it tucked away in our
homes, we need to give it more public exposure. Locally, our guilds have
had two displays this past year and it was interesting to hear the
comments by people amazed that such pieces of art could be created with
a needle! If we want others to have a better understanding of what we do
we most be willing to share it with them!
Happy stitchin'
Mavia
Lei
subject to "feminine" tendencies. While a student, I certainly found
myself emulating my more aggressive male professors who didn't give a
damn about other people's feelings. My dad noticed my attitude right
away, though, and told me that I had to change quick or he wasn't going
to talk to me any more. ha ha
BTW, I really flipped people out when after completing my final oral
exam, I told everyone I was going home and doing cross stitch ALL
weekend. ha ha ha They thought I'd say I'd go out and get the Nobel
prize or something. :D
Darla
<in...@cross-stitch-world.com> wrote:
>I can totally agree with that. The jaws off my colleagues almost hit the
>floor the first time I decided to bring my stitching to work. They thought
>it was so totally NOT me.... Also because it was so feminine. I work as an
>office manager for an internet company and its a pretty stressful job.
>Stitching is THE way for me to let of some steam and relax. The reaction you
>get then is that they would think that all those little stitches,
>complicated patterns etc. would only get you more stressed....
Back in July I climbed out of my truck and started driving a computer
in the dispatch office. Since Thanksgiving I've been bringing a small
project to work on when things are quiet late at night (I work noon to
midnight), generally after nearly everyone else has gone home.
Occasionally, one or another of the payroll personnel will work late
and see me stitching (complete with GripIt table model!). And, of
course, some of the drivers, as they come in to pick up or turn in
their paperwork. Neither of the payroll personnel (both female) has
come over to look at my project. EVERY DRIVER (and with me in
Dispatch, they're exclusively male!) has commented, and most have
asked to see the project, and more than a few have come over to look
more closely at what I'm doing (and one has asked for directions to my
LNS after seeing the GripIt table model!!). Go figure.
Darla
Law of Probability Dispersal: Whatever it is that hits the
fan will not be evenly distributed.
Jennifer L.
"Too bad really; it's not the word "craft" but some of the junk that is made
they have done and if they give it, we would love to receive it. And we must
remember that if someone calls us crafty they are using the term as a
compliment and we must take it that way. It is after all a well used word
that describes many different talents that many different people have.
Jennifer L.
Sorry I do usually lurk in here but felt I had enter (unwanted or otherwise)
to this discussion.
Dawne Peterson <valk...@dlcwest.com> wrote in message
news:3a3c7...@news.newsdudes.com...
Anita's Tried & True Recipes
crafts since I do. I enjoy cross stitching very much but I also make
ornaments and plan craft projects for a senior center. I take pride in any
"craft" I do and really don't care what others say or think about it.
Anita's Tried & True Recipes
http://www.anitasrecipes.com
Susan G. Capps, Ph.D.
I have a Ph.D. in Biomechanical Engineering. I have been a college
professor, now I have my own business doing contract work (writing,
statistics, finite element analysis, research organization, etc). The only
other female prof in my dept when I was a prof (sorry for the sentence
construction) quilted a LOT. I've only started to quilt since I left
academia, but I've stitched for nearly 25 years & it was my sanity-provider
during graduate school. If I didn't stitch, I'd be insane. (I'm very active
in my professional organization &...) I haven't had the gumption to take my
stitching into a board of trustees or committee meeting yet, but I'm usually
so busy asking questions & putting my own views forward that I don't have
time to DOODLE much less stitch :) However, I always have a project and a
paperback w/ me when I travel for work. That 20 minutes of space between
committee meetings is great for a quick read &/or a few stitches.
Susan in N Indiana
Lirio wrote in message <20001217115601...@ng-fw1.aol.com>...
Kim McAnnally
I had a lady ask how much I charge for stitching those "things" -
refering to an MLI on my wall, and I told her I had never done it for
money and it would have to be hundreds of dollars.
Kim
>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:16:10 GMT, Sheena Mackenzie <she...@ns.sympatico.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>Add to that "do you craft?" "do you do craft works?" - I try to remain calm
>>as usually it is a person who does not do anything with their hands. Crafty
>>is actually not a nice thing to be called! Sheena
>
>Well, when Rosie O'Donnell says it, it IS cute. I hope there are no Rosie
>haters here...and let's NOT go to Martha...who I adore! HA@
>
>
>http://www.freetibet.org
Email to get a Special Sale good December 2000!
Save 50% off all in stock fabrics, patterns, and more!
http://fabrics2u.home.netcom.com
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jpa...@aol.comsulfur (JPageC) wrote:
> I really dislike the word ''crafts" applied to what I do. As a
> stitcher/crocheter who changes everything I do, I tend to think of my
work as
> folk art.
>
> Jacqueline
> Morgantown WV
> --
>
On the other hand, I'd much rather have it be called _a_ craft than a
folk art.
_A_ craft (to me) implies mastery, 'craftsmanship', and so forth. I've
also got a bit of the Arts and Crafts/Craftsman movements in my
psychology, which makes the term also imply an almost spiritual
endeavor, above and beyond the work produced. That given, one cannot do
sloppy, poor quality work, though, because to do so would dishonor both
the craft and the crafts(wo)man. See also *Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle Maintenance*, in which even bike repairs can be an art, even
a religious experience, if approached from that perspective.
I read something once (in a Dick Francis novel, of all places). The
main character is speaking of his parents, both world-class classical
musicians, that they had taught him, by example, never to be satisfied
with a poor result when a better one could be achieved merely by
additional work. My craftswork comes under that heading. I am one of
those people who will pick out the same part three times, even though
nobody else would ever notice, simply because _I'd_ know.
Both crafts (plural) and folk art imply something thrown together,
usually with little skill or concern with quality. Something slapdash,
probably unplanned, asymmetrical when the two sides should have matched,
poorly executed. There is a time and place for that - I have done some
pretty sloppy stuff for theatrical things when the audience couldn't see
it and we were seriously pressed for time - but even a construction-
paper- and- cotton- ball Christmas decoration can be done well for what
it is.
-- Elizabeth
Lirio
>also got a bit of the Arts and Crafts/Craftsman movements in my
>psychology, which makes the term also imply an almost spiritual
>endeavor, above and beyond the work produced.
>Both crafts (plural) and folk art imply something thrown together,
>usually with little skill or concern with quality.
He He. Terms like crafts, artisan, craftsman, artist, etc have been changing
rapidly since the beginning of the century. Everybody is arguing about them.
I personally don't like the change that occured even further back--the split
between 'art' and 'craft'--I prefer the really old days when they were one and
the same. Art today implies, or even says out loud, eye candy and a
non-practical use. Craft is looked down upon because it IS useful and/or
practical--in fact that has been one of the criteria for distinguishing between
the two. A quilt becomes an art quilt, for instance, only when it can't be used
and is hung on the wall to make a statement. All of these words have
connotations that can be quite irritating. Folk art originally meant work done
by 'non-artists', but the pieces usually had a great deal of meaning, sometimes
even spiritual, for the maker and for those who kept it. The standards of Art
today obscure that. Crafts? <shrug> I've had quite elaborate and well done
pieces of stitchery called that.
As far as being well done--depends. I'm a finisher and have done quite a few
pieces of embroidary that weren't really very good--but the customer was
learning, or they were old pieces that had been done by their mother, now
deceased, or similar reasons. I just made a piece into an ornament for a young
girl--it was her first piece of cross-stitch and I suspect it will be treasured
by both the girl and her mother, just as I treasure my daughter's first pieces,
mistakes and all. Crafts, as in asymetrical, etc? My aunts and future MIL made
egg carton roses for the rehearsal dinner centerpieces. They weren't Fabergre,
but I can tell you I loved each one and greatly appreciated the time they spent
for me.
Maggie
Sheena Mackenzie
when I look at folk art that it is totally unpretentious, that it is
executed for love and pleasure and is possibly more pure than some 'artists'
who take themselves very seriously and look at each piece and how they will
do it in the light of how much they will make for it! There's a certain
sort of joy, I can't describe it really, in folk art. Sheena
Joyce in RSA
anyway - it means "cunning", like a fox!
The word "threads" is a regional thing. Only from Americans have I heard
the word "floss", until recently. It seems to be becoming general now, but
I have always (in UK as well as South Africa), known embroidery cotton as
thread. We have a new producer of stranded cotton, perle and something else
that defies description, called "Threads for Africa". The term is used for
sewing threads as well, being a general term , covering silks and rayons as
well as cotton. Joyce in RSA.
Spudalud <spud...@my-deja.com> wrote in article
>
> I have to admit, I hate it when I am described as "crafty" or as "doing
> crafts" for this reason. I really do cringe at it. I do think that
> people who don't do needlework of any kinds do sort of view stitching
> and needlework in this way.
>
Nancy Marino
work hanging in my office and visitors always comment about how I could ever
find time to do this work. Others are amazed that a professional woman would
even be interested in such things. Silly people.
Nancy Marino
Sheena Mackenzie
doesn't need to qualify it. Sheena
Victoria wrote:
> I can't speak for all Americans, but the people who are in the needlework
> community refer to any fibers as threads. Floss is a type of thread, but
> Appleton yarn is also called threads.
>
> Victoria
Liz / Cozit
Victoria wrote:
> I can't speak for all Americans, but the people who are in the needlework
> community refer to any fibers as threads. Floss is a type of thread, but
> Appleton yarn is also called threads.
It's mostly more confusing now because there are so many choices of materials to
stitch with. "Fibers" usually refers to the thing you put through the eye of
the needle and do a design with... though it also applies to the description of
the fabric/material you're using... unless it's plastic. Funny thing is that
even plastic "threads" can be referred to as "fibers". Though in describing a
"fiber" as a "thread" to someone I mean that it's a more tightly spun/made
thread, I'll refer to my "floss" as "thread" also when I say I need to finish
"just one more thread" :-)
"Fibers" for a general descriptive word works pretty well, when you consider the
choices between silk thread, floss, or one of the several other descriptors come
into use describing both how it's spun and the luster of the "fiber". Throw in
cotton thread and floss, then linen thread, and all the specialty metalics and
things like glissengloss, neon rays, rayon floss, glow in the dark plastics,
etc. and it's nice to have the general word "fiber" to use when you don't want
to be specific for one reason or another.
Clear as mud, huh? :-)
-Liz (who still hasn't played with half the fibers out there begging for
attention)
Liz / Cozit
Victoria wrote:
> Here in Texas, any LNS I've been to refers
> to all fibers as threads. Fabric is not called fibers. It is called fabric!
> Hahaha.
Naw, I didn't mean that people called fabric fibers, I just meant that sometimes you
hear "fiber type" or "fiber content" when fabric is described.... Hmm... now that I
think about it, you often see "fiber content" on those labels in clothing... and soft
toys....
It's that time of the year when brains go whirling off into other worlds unexpectedly
at times.... at least, I *think* I'm not the only one that happens to :-)
-Liz
John A. Edwards
about fiber content on the cereal box.
John the criminal
Sheena Mackenzie
vary by country and right down to local areas. Floss is catching on in the UK these
days I notice, used to be more north American. Sheena
Victoria wrote:
> I think I just got a headache :) Let's just say it this way, whether I'm buying
> cotton, plastic, hemp or rayon, I call them all threads and so does the LNS.
> Different fibers are just that. They can be made of plastic, hemp...etc...but
> all are referred to as threads. Probably for the reason you mentioned. Now,
> this can be regional, I don't know. Here in Texas, any LNS I've been to refers
> to all fibers as threads. Fabric is not called fibers. It is called fabric!
> Hahaha. This is all really meaningless, but we just HAVE to talk about it
> because we are all crazy and addicted!
>
> v
>
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:33:35 GMT, Liz / Cozit <co...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >It's mostly more confusing now because there are so many choices of materials to
> >stitch with. "Fibers" usually refers to the thing you put through the eye of
> >the needle and do a design with... though it also applies to the description of
> >the fabric/material you're using... unless it's plastic. Funny thing is that
> >even plastic "threads" can be referred to as "fibers". Though in describing a
> >"fiber" as a "thread" to someone I mean that it's a more tightly spun/made
> >thread, I'll refer to my "floss" as "thread" also when I say I need to finish
> >"just one more thread" :-)
> >
> >"Fibers" for a general descriptive word works pretty well, when you consider the
> >choices between silk thread, floss, or one of the several other descriptors come
> >into use describing both how it's spun and the luster of the "fiber". Throw in
> >cotton thread and floss, then linen thread, and all the specialty metalics and
> >things like glissengloss, neon rays, rayon floss, glow in the dark plastics,
> >etc. and it's nice to have the general word "fiber" to use when you don't want
> >to be specific for one reason or another.
> >
> >
> >Clear as mud, huh? :-)
> >-Liz (who still hasn't played with half the fibers out there begging for
> >attention)
>
Karen C - California
Craft Fairs, where they throw together hundreds of quick things with no sense
of craft or artistry, but only speed and greed.
The last church Craft Fair I will ever participate in, there were a hundred
bookmarks of sequins sloppily glued on felt -- some of which fell off when you
picked them up to look at them (I thought they were done by the K-6 students,
but turned out they were done by a couple of adults), and dozens of gift tags
made from old greeting cards (the maker hadn't bothered to line up the vvv of
the pinking shears when she needed to make a long cut, and some of them had
ribbon holes poked right through Virgin Mary's face!!!).
My contribution was a Fair Isle sweater with expensive yarns, which they wanted
to sell below cost, on the theory that no one coming to a craft fair would
spend more than $10 on any item. I also took a lot of flak for contributing
only one item ... I should have whipped up hundreds of overpriced tacky trash
items like the others. My sweater ended up being auctioned for $50, more than
anyone else had earned for the cause, but I was still branded as the lazy woman
who only made one thing. At that point, I decided they didn't appreciate
Craft, just kitsch, and it wasn't worth my time to make anything for them,
because I refused to have my name associated with the usual overpriced crapola,
or to put hundreds of hours into something they were going to underprice and
argue about.
I have since donated some things to a different charity's craft sale, but on
the condition that I was the one who'd name the price, and if they didn't like
the price I put on them, they weren't getting anything. The organizer does
needlework herself, and saw nothing wrong with putting a $25 price tag on an
item (other than questioning "shouldn't we charge $40?")
--
Finished 12/15 -- Baseball logo pillow
WIP: getting my health back, Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe
Paralegal - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/myhomepage/profile.html
Don't risk your on-line privileges! I report all Spam.
Liz / Cozit
Sheena Mackenzie wrote:
> Somewhere that I lived, threads meant your clothing.
Might have been more of a "when" you lived. "Threads" was common slang for clothing in
the 60s/70s ... don't remember exactly when it started/finished, because I didn't pay
all that much attention to it... do know it was gone well before I hit college in the
early 80s.
-Liz
Kathy in NC
bring stitching and knitting to my office to work on during office
hours. I hold 4 office hours a week for students to stop in, and it's
either super-busy (just before or just after a paper due date or exam) or
it's incredibly slow/lonely. I don't like to use those hours to work on
course preparation or my own research/writing because (a) I hate to get
"in a groove" and have to stop for a visitor and (b) I hate for students
to feel like they're interrupting me working on something important --
after all, office hours are THEIR time to come see me with questions and
concerns. So I bring small stitching or needlework projects to campus and
work on them a bit in between student visits. If no students come by, I
get a lot of work done on the projects, and if students do stop in, I can
easily put down the projects and work with them. A few students have been
surprised that I'm doing needlework or knitting, but most have said things
like, "That's so cool!" and wanted to know what I'm making, who it's for,
how I got into it, and so on. I teach women's history, so I also find it
intellectually interesting and personally fulfilling to practice crafts
that women have practiced for centuries.
Best,
Kathy
Nancy Marino <mar...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
: Another Ph.D. college professor, who stitches all the time. I have
some of my
: work hanging in my office and visitors always comment about how I could ever
: find time to do this work. Others are amazed that a professional woman would
: even be interested in such things. Silly people.
: Nancy Marino
: "Susan G. Capps, Ph.D." wrote:
:> I had to jump in here...
:> I have a Ph.D. in Biomechanical Engineering. I have been a college
:> professo...
JennyWren
doing this? I am not a phD, just a research associate, but in my department (very
male dominated) a prof would be crucified for this. Our full professors do get
away with a lot sometimes--keeping odd hours and such, but female professors are
held to a different standard.
The Wren
Karen C - California
I hope you're writing journal articles about the history of women and
needlecraft? I'd like to see a good one about the male-dominated craft guilds
giving way to women's work......
--
Finished 1/1/01 - crocheted afghan
Kathy in NC
listed as a half-time employee, so I can set my own hours -- I'm
sure that status gives me some flexibility. I am hired as a half-time
employee, but I'm in the office and working much more than 20 hours per
week, so a few minutes here and there between appointments spent on
stitching doesn't cut into my work in any way.
I'm sure that discipline makes a big difference too -- in history there
isn't a lot of research work that can be done in the office on the clock.
My sources are in archival collections in other states, so it's not like
another academic field in which I could be using that time to run data
through a statistical program, start a lab experiment, etc. I'm sure if I
was a research associate, hired to do research in the department, I would
be expected to use all of my time on campus on research work.
I could use those few minutes here and there between students to read
journal articles or write my own stuff, but I find that it's hard for me
to stay focused in 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there blocks and so it
isn't really a productive use of my time to tackle reading and writing in
those small chunks of time. (Plus, since I'm teaching faculty only, the
department has no vested interest in my research and writing, as they
would if I were tenure-track). I do frequently use downtime for paperwork
or other teaching/research related tasks, just not major projects that
would be hard to do with interruptions. But on the occasions when I pick
up the needle in between student visits, no one has expressed concern over
my doing so.
It is frustrating, though, to hear that female professors and male
professors are still held to different standards. Sigh!
Kathy
JennyWren <vand...@agecon.purdue.edutwist> wrote: : Don't you run into
Kathy in NC
and I would like to write an article about the role of needlework in
women's education some day. It seems that many historians write off
needlework in the curriculum as "ornamental" and not especially serious,
but I have seen examples of needlework used as a way to teach geography
(stitching globes and maps) and it certainly has a significant
mathematical/geometrical component in terms of counting, charting,
planning (esp. if you get into reversible work). I think it would be
interesting to explore why teachers included needlework in the curriculum,
what students did with their academic needlework projects, and what
meanings/learning/ideas they came away with when they finished their
needlework projects. I would also like to branch out an explore
needlework in non-educational settings -- so much history, so little time!
PBS Home video did a good documentary on the meaning of quilting in
women's lives and the ways in which quilt patterns reflect themes in
women's historical experiences in America. It's called Hearts and Hands
if anyone is interested.
Best,
Kathy
Karen C - California <kmc...@aol.com.luvxs> wrote:
: I hope you're writing journal articles about the history of women and
Karen C - California
>women's education
All those boring samplers, drilling ABCDEetc. into those pretty little heads.
And let's not forget the Bible verses learned by heart while stitching those on
the samplers.
JennyWren
certain areas of study. I am in agribusiness. Purdue has one of the larger
Ag Econ departments in the country and only has three female faculty with a
new one starting this month. I just thank my lucky stars I am not in
engineering!
the Wren
Anne B.
I'm also in academia -- English professor (with tenure). I keep both
knitting and needlework in my office. I take knitting to conferences --
socks are nice, being essentially mindless. People around me eventually
get used to this, but there's always some shock at first. This was
especially true in the university where I did my graduate work
(Berkeley), where the reaction clearly was that I was doing something
trivial and non-intellectual. Fair enough. It hasn't hampered my
career.
Ha! I cultivate eccentricity. It's the best way to get a bit of
freedom. Also, I'm a medievalist. We have more leeway, as we're sorta
expected to be a bit wierd. I think it's all those dead languages.
cheers, Anne B. (I'm at Duquesne, by the way -- since I'm posting from
deja, you can't tell from my email address)
--
It is well for people who think to change their minds occasionally in
order to keep them clean. For those who do not think, it is best at
least to rearrange their prejudices. -- Luther Burbank
Currently finishing: "Guardian Angel," Carol Emmer
Going back on rotation ASAP: "Angel of Love," Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum;
"Shore Patrol," Elsa Williams; "Millennium," Theresa Wentzler; "The Toy
Gatherer," Tina Richards Herman, and sampler entry, EGA.
Kathy in NC
Eccentricity definitely has its advantages! I see a few historians
knitting at conferences, but haven't been to one since I took it up (I'm a
new knitter). Glad to know another academic/stitcher/knitter!
Kathy
Anne B. <pandora...@my-deja.com> wrote:
: I'm also in academia -- English professor (with tenure). I keep both
Kathy in NC
stories (especially from some women I know in scientific fields, but also
in fields with more women in them, interestingly). It's just
disappointing.
JennyWren <vand...@agecon.purdue.edutwist> wrote:
: (Snort) Of course, they are still treated differently! Particularly in
KDLark
Elizabeth," by Carolly Erickson. Here's a bit about the part needlework played
in the education of girls: "Little girls applied themselves to stitching the
alphabet and sententious proverbs on wall hangings; by age six or seven they
had progressed to fancier work and were able to decorate cushions or clothing."
"Parents found the hours lost to needlework reassuring. One nobleman wrote
that all his daughters should be put to vast embroidery projects 'that will
ever be in the beginning and never ended.'"
Hmmm, let me read that last bit again! "Never ended?" Some things never
change!
Do you think Queen Bess had a rotation going?
Katrina L.
Karen C - California
>ever be in the beginning and never ended.'
Contemplate how long it would have taken you to stitch the Bayeux Tapestry, or
even your own panel thereof......
Karen C - California
>socks are nice, being essentially mindless. People around me eventually
>get used to this, but there's always some shock at first.
Yep. Mrs. Dr. J was expecting, and I took the baby sweater to Dr. J's class.
He sniped at me for knitting, and the fact that it was for his kid didn't
excuse me. I then recited the last paragraph of his lecture verbatim,
including the statistics, and he decided that maybe I could knit and listen at
the same time. (My debate partner was a better notetaker than I was -- we
always used his notes for studying -- so there was no need for me to write
anything down in class.)
JPageC
<vand...@agecon.purdue.edutwist> writes:
>(Snort) Of course, they are still treated differently! Particularly in
>certain areas of study. I am in agribusiness. Purdue has one of the larger
>Ag Econ departments in the country and only has three female faculty with a
>new one starting this month. I just thank my lucky stars I am not in
>engineering!
>
Funny, when I was considering the PhD route in mining engineering, I was
strongly encouraged by faculty. At the time (and probably still) there were no
female faculty in that field in the US. It would have been a feather in
someone's cap to boast a female on the faculty. I didn't choose that path for
various reasons, but even as just an engineer in the mining industry, I'm
treated like gold. I guess it just depends on *how* scarce women are in a
particular field.
Jacqueline
Morgantown WV
--
Remove sulfur
WIPs: TW's Floral Bell Pull
An Afghan of Birds
17th Century Irish Garden
Pharaoh's Pet
TIAG's Mother's Tree
Pretty Pansies crochet afghan
various small projects that sneak their way in
Mary M. Riedel
hill...forever.
"KDLark" <kdl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010103172210...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
John A. Edwards
"Mary M. Riedel" <mmri...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:930kn6$2e$2...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Geez, sounds like that poor Greek fellow destined to roll that rock up a
> hill...forever.
You mean Sisyphus? Quite a story, huh? I never understood why he didn't
wedge the rock when he got to the top of the hill. (We had a guy in our 1st
year literature class who just just didn't get it. He didn't do his
reading -- the book was "Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus, I think -- and
when he got to the lecture he blurted out, "Hey man, that ain't no myth. Ya
gotta be careful who ya sleep with." Pity, he was dead-sincere -- not a
clue! We all hunkered down in our jacket collars and tried to pretend we
didn't hear it.)
Another story that illustrates how clueless some of us men are is that one
about how Hercules and Atlas conned one another in turn into taking the
world onto their shoulders from one another.
The there's the other guy -- Prometheus -- my favorite. He ended up chained
to a rock forever while the buzzards tore at him, just for giving humans
fire from the altar for free. (Didn't know how to formulate a business plan
or get a good lawyer, I guess.)
John the criminal
rosaleah
"Anne B." <pandora...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92vpi9$egq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> Ha! I cultivate eccentricity.
Totally OT aside: one of my fave quotes (will xs this one day!) is "Develop
your eccentricities while you are young. That way, when you are old, people
won't think you're going ga-ga." --David Ogilvy
--Rosaleah
rosaleah
"John A. Edwards" <ja.ed...@home.com> wrote in message
news:x2S46.209540$_5.47...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
>
>
> The there's the other guy -- Prometheus -- my favorite. He ended up
chained
> to a rock forever while the buzzards tore at him, just for giving humans
> fire from the altar for free. (Didn't know how to formulate a business
plan
> or get a good lawyer, I guess.)
>
> John the criminal
>
>
He ought not to have infringed Zeus's copyright, eh?
--Rosaleah
Kim Brown
I like the story of Aesculapius. When he lay down to sleep, Hera (I
think) sent the ants to clean out his ears (now, how could an ant
*possibly* clean out a bloke's ears without eating...? Let's not go
there, eh?)
Anyway, when he woke up, Aesculapius found he could clearly hear the
conversations of all the animals! They helped him to cure people of
their diseased because animals are wiser than men and know how to keep
themselves healthy.
--
Trish {|:OI}
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kay Hahn
Kay at kh...@cas.org
all usual disclaimers apply .nothing witty here
In article <92v94p$rl8$2...@news2.isis.unc.edu>, Kathy in NC <klw...@email.unc.edu>
writes:
Anne B.
"rosaleah" <rosa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Totally OT aside: one of my fave quotes (will xs this one day!) is
"Develop
> your eccentricities while you are young. That way, when you are old,
people
> won't think you're going ga-ga." --David Ogilvy
>
> --Rosaleah
>
>
Thank you. If you see this show up on my signature at some point,
remember that I think of you.
cheers, Anne B.
barbara.l.hass.1
work. #1-grad student; #2-wouldn't have the time anyway. Even when I get
5 minutes, there's always something mindless to do, like rack pipet tips.
However, XS is perceived as a plus (well, sewing and needlework, anyway)
in one's lifestyle. These sorts of activities improve hand/eye
coordination. I play piano, guitar, and do XS. My boss has commented
numerous times on my ability to do "fine" work, steadiness of hands, etc.
And one of the new profs just hired in our department (comes to us from
Harvard) cross-stitches as well (a male prof, no less). I have also
heard, though I don't know anyone personally, that many surgeons do
needlework in their spare time, also to improve and keep up hand-eye
coordination. Seems needlework remains important even in our high-tech
culture.
Barbara H.
geo...@my-deja.com
Good Queen Bess definitely had a rotation going but it didn't involve
needlework, just suitors.
George
--
People who pray for miracles usually don't get miracles...But people who
pray for courage, for strength to bear the unbearable, for the grace to
remember what they have left instead of what they have lost, very often
find their prayers answered. Harold S. Kushner