Justifying Needlework
Jacinta Lodge
I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more artistic
worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us
who simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this
work. Obviously i was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable
format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of
course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
arguements in response?
Jacinta
Pat Porter
the design, it`s the execution of it that results in the quality of the
finished work. I freely admit that I`m far from being a good stitcher of my
own designs - I`m in too much darned hurry to get on to the next one! I`d
love to see my designs taken to their ultimate by a stitcher who takes time
and care to make it perfect!
In short, we`re both artists in our own particular ways! Neither of us is
worth a hoot without the other!
Pat Porter
East Anglian Xstitch Designs
http://homepages.tesco.net/~porter
Country Village scenes
"Jacinta Lodge" wrote
Has anyone else had this?
I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more artistic >
worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us who
simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this work.
Obviously I was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable format),
managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the way for me, I
couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of course at home on
my own later, I could think up plenty!
Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
arguments in response?
>
> Jacinta
>
Sheena Mackenzie
yourself down. Sheena
KDLark
paint by number, which I used to do, when I was a kid. It's easier, though!
:D! I write and draw, so I know I'm artistic, and comments that my needlework
isn't artistic don't bother me...I can't be creative all the time.
Still, it's fun and it creates a beautiful decorative object -- even at times a
useful object. Small changes can be worked into it: I changed all the blues
in the last Mirabilia cherub I did to mauves, and that did take an artistic
eye. Skill is important, too. It can be done poorly, or done well, and that
makes all the difference, sometimes.
Specialty stitches take a bit of skill beyond simple cross stitches, also.
Is cooking not an art? Aren't we impressed with a good cook, whether she/he is
reproducing a tried and true recipe, or inventing a new one? Cross-stitch is
like that.
Katrina L.
B & Y McBRIDE
response ranges from 'I know it is only crosses - here is the fabric and
thread you show me just how easy it is.' Or simply 'If you did it you would
understand.'
I have had many many people saying negative things about my cross
stitch -not the quality of the finished result - more the amount of 'wasted'
(their view) time involved. I think it is a way of covering their surprise
that someone can do something they don't have a clue about. After all, in
their minds it is only crosses and anyone can thread a needle and make a
cross stitch on fabric.
JMHO
Yve
"Jacinta Lodge" <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3AE3E1E2...@chemie.fu-berlin.de...
Dianne Lewandowski
generally. Is Rubenstein a piano "artist"? Is Jo Ma (spelling?) a
cello "artist"?
These are ALL artists in their own right - highly acclaimed as artists
the world over - and they usually only perform master works done by
artists both living and long dead.
Stupid, sophomoric comments by this individual. Do I think I'm a
needlework artist? No - and I design as well as stitch. But that
doesn't make me an "artist" - only a novice craftsman. But there's
nothing wrong with being a craftsman, either. Takes years to get even
to that level.
Dianne
Maria
>After all, in
>their minds it is only crosses and anyone can thread a needle and make
a
>cross stitch on fabric.
Well, actually, they can, can't they?
I learned, you learned, others learned. Others are seeking to teach
others, to lure them into our ranks inorder to keep designers designing,
stores in business and to increase the numbers of people financially
supporting the industry.
How do you keep your balance on that line between people who
distainfully consider X's as thread by numbers vs those who
automatically say "oh, I'll never be able to do that/I can't do that?"
In my limited experience there are few who actually, physically or
cognitively "can't." For most it's a time management choice: they don't
want to take the time to learn, then do. Until you get into other
stitch techniques, changing out things, it IS just X's on cloth.
I know the original post was one about a disparaging remark, but other
replies just tried to out-disparage the disparager. In reading those I
thought, what is your goal here? To insult or to edify? To support an
industry, to try to increase it's base or to limit it to a select and
ever decreasing few? Where is the line when dealing with people?
--
maria from MA
remove the munge to reply
Mary M. Riedel
nothing without our stitches. Would you frame an unstitched canvas or the
color chart for a cross stitch design? That's why these designs are
executed in the first place, so that we can finish them and make them
complete. It's a team effort.
Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the guy because a comment like that
is meant to get a "dig" into someone. Is that your impession? You know
him, we don't.
There was a thread a while back that wondered about this issue, but it was
coming from a needleworker who was pondering the issue, and it had a
completely different, non-negative spin. Nothing wrong with philosophizing,
but there's no need to make a negative judgment about it.
Bess
> How about: Is Perlman a violin "artist"? He doesn't compose
> generally. Is Rubenstein a piano "artist"? Is Jo Ma (spelling?) a
> cello "artist"?
Good reply...there is a genius in composing/desiging and in
playing/stitching. The work of the composer/designer is not of much use
without the musician/stitcher, eh?
Best Stitches,
Bess
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benmax
I don't do X-stitch, I never have and I probably never will. My medium is
creative embroidery, which ranges from making, dyeing and stitching (both
hand and free-machining) paper and felt, on metal and on other fabrics.
Every piece I do is different, it's my design, my creation. I select
textures, colours, embellishments etc.
However, until quite recently I had a similar view of X-stitchers to that of
Jacinta's critic. And then I saw a X-stitch piece which was absolutely
perfect. It was mounted on a wall next to another one of the same
design...but the second one was atrocious! It was uneven, the fabric was
not square to the mount and it was dirty! It was in a little local
exhibition; I don't think the second example would have been put on show
anywhere else!
There is artistry in the execution of the work.
Nan
Pat Porter <pat.p...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:jvRE6.832$Ln6....@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Karen C - California
Brava, Dianne, Brava!!!
Yes, there are some XSers who operate solely in paint-by-numbers mode. But
there are also those who apply plenty of creativity: we change the colors, we
add specialty fibers, we add or remove parts of the design.....
I can't draw for beans, but I've "designed" a number of projects by taking a
border here, a motif there, and combining them in original ways. I consider
that the equivalent of cooking with beef I haven't raised myself and spices I
haven't raised myself. My cinnamon-flavored beef stew is a true original, even
if I started with store-bought parts.
With my penchant for metallics and dislike for beads, I put my "signature" on
most of the pieces I stitch. Although my friend Kat does lovely work, very
precise, if you gave both of us the same kit, you'd have no trouble identifying
the stitcher from the finished pieces. She will slavishly follow the
directions and stitch on the enclosed white Aida-14 with the enclosed floss.
Mine will be over-one on some non-white evenweave, the cat eyes will have
hologram thread and their neck bows will be rayon, and the border will be
changed to match the recipient's decor. Nonetheless, Kat's by-the-book work
will be "artistry" next to the first attempt of a 6-year-old working the same
kit ... her artistry is in the precision of the stitches.
Similarly, you could put the same pile of fruits, bottles and plates in front
of Picasso, Monet and Van Gogh, and they'd turn out very different still lifes.
The artistry is in what you *do* with the outline. (I can envision some
modern artists taking a paint-by-number kit and painting the sky green)
My aunt was a gifted painter; I'm a klutz. I admired one of her paintings and
she gave me the same kit for Christmas. You didn't have to ask which finished
painting was hers and which was mine. Hers looked like a deer. Mine looked
like a brown blob. "Paint by numbers" may not be as creative as paint from
scratch, but there are some people who cannot paint even by numbers........
--
Finished 3/12/01 - Rose Snowglobe
WIP: getting my health back, Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe
Paralegal - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/myhomepage/profile.html
Don't risk your on-line privileges! I report all Spam.
JennyWren
it is just a philosophical difference. But I prefer to focus on executing a
design with skill and insightful interpretation--craftsmanship, by my
definition. I tend to define "art" as original work. But that is just my
way of looking at it. I lump needlework in with woodworking, making
clothing, and gardening. It isn't the activity that defines whether the
product is art or not, but the approach taken in its creation.
The Wren
Velvet
> I would have absolutely no problem telling him that conversation with
> him has no artistic or other value and walking away.
Oh that's classic! Bravo :)
--
.|.
- * - Jen Persinger
(\o /|` ** mom to Alyxa Brianna (21 Sept 1997)
(VXV E-Mail: vel...@rootaction.net ICQ: 35217570
/| URL: http://cainan.shutdown.com/~velvet
Seanette Blaylock
Justifying Needlework":
>Stupid, sophomoric comments by this individual. Do I think I'm a
>needlework artist? No - and I design as well as stitch. But that
>doesn't make me an "artist" - only a novice craftsman. But there's
>nothing wrong with being a craftsman, either. Takes years to get even
>to that level.
Thanks, Dianne. I do NOT have the necessary talents or skills to
design, so simply buy what someone else designs and do it.
What I'd like to know is why it has to be [flourish of trumpets] ART
to be worth doing? I've found the art world a rather pretentious,
snooty place, and am much happier among the crafts types. :-)
--
Seanette Blaylock [make obvious address correction to e-mail]
"Either you're being sarcastic, or your post leaked over to me from a
parallel universe, or one or both of us is insane and/or stupid and/or
not paying attention and/or lying." Ben, ATSR
Michele
especially the last several lines.
Michele in Southern Maryland
goldil...@aol.com
victoria wrote in message ...
>What kind of person would ever say something like that, anyway? Even if I
>thought it, it certainly would not be something I'd say to you if you were
the
>avid stitcher.
*snip*
>However, with regard to the artistic expression of the stitcher who did not
>design the work...hmmm, that is some set of couluones on the person who
said
>that to you, the stitcher. It is definitely not just like painting by
number.
>This is an art which we perform because, compared to a beginning stitcher,
or a
>stitcher who does not take their time, my work looks like it should go in a
>museum. Yes, I think I take THAT much care to lay each stitch in so the
piece
>expresses my love for the design. In that expression, I am creating art.
As a
>design unfurls in front of my eyes as I stitch bottom to top, it is ME who
is
>placing, counting, and being sure the floss lay right.
*snip*
>One step further, I avoid people of such ignorance. Because of this, I
have a
>relatively small circle, as many people are pretty ignorant, I find.
>
>Victoria
Seanette Blaylock
"Re: Justifying Needlework":
>My aunt was a gifted painter; I'm a klutz. I admired one of her paintings and
>she gave me the same kit for Christmas. You didn't have to ask which finished
>painting was hers and which was mine. Hers looked like a deer. Mine looked
>like a brown blob. "Paint by numbers" may not be as creative as paint from
>scratch, but there are some people who cannot paint even by numbers........
Such as me. :-) [I am a good cook, though.]
Velvet
>
> > Is Perlman a violin "artist"? He doesn't compose
>
> Brava, Dianne, Brava!!!
>
> Yes, there are some XSers who operate solely in paint-by-numbers mode. But
> there are also those who apply plenty of creativity: we change the colors, we
> add specialty fibers, we add or remove parts of the design.....
And how about those times when you miss a stitch here & there, and
decide to compensate rather than rip out everything you've done around
it? At times, that takes a great deal of creativity! *lol* Okay, I'm
stretching on that one, I know ... but I'm among those who change the
fabric, colors (on a small scale thusfar), beads used in the piece
(changing, adding or removing). Of course, I've also had a ton of
compliments on my work - including from people I'd *never* expect to be
interested in it. The most "negative" thing I get is "that would drive
me nuts. I don't know how you do it!" Heck, I've even had people
(okay, my MIL) ask me to do a piece for them.
>
> I can't draw for beans, but I've "designed" a number of projects by taking a
> border here, a motif there, and combining them in original ways. I consider
> that the equivalent of cooking with beef I haven't raised myself and spices I
> haven't raised myself. My cinnamon-flavored beef stew is a true original, even
> if I started with store-bought parts.
Oooh...would you be willing to part with the recipe? I'm always
looking for good recipes :)
> With my penchant for metallics and dislike for beads, I put my "signature" on
> most of the pieces I stitch. Although my friend Kat does lovely work, very
> precise, if you gave both of us the same kit, you'd have no trouble identifying
> the stitcher from the finished pieces. She will slavishly follow the
> directions and stitch on the enclosed white Aida-14 with the enclosed floss.
After stitching on linen, I just can't do Aida anymore. I balk at the
finished Mirabilia pieces on Ebay that are done on Aida ... not that
they look any less beautiful (and no offense if the stitcher is on the
newsgroup), but I've just developed a "taste" for linen. I tried to do
a piece on Aida after stitching my first linen piece, and I just got so
fed up with it - I've *never* wanted to burn a piece so badly in my life
(okay, there were other issues aside from the fabric, but that was a
major contributor).
> Similarly, you could put the same pile of fruits, bottles and plates in front
> of Picasso, Monet and Van Gogh, and they'd turn out very different still lifes.
> The artistry is in what you *do* with the outline. (I can envision some
> modern artists taking a paint-by-number kit and painting the sky green)
It's all a matter of perspective, and everyone has a different
perspective on the same issue. Life would be so boring if we all
thought the same way about the same thing. I am not a robot, I'm a
person :)
>
> My aunt was a gifted painter; I'm a klutz. I admired one of her paintings and
> she gave me the same kit for Christmas. You didn't have to ask which finished
> painting was hers and which was mine. Hers looked like a deer. Mine looked
> like a brown blob. "Paint by numbers" may not be as creative as paint from
> scratch, but there are some people who cannot paint even by numbers........
My mom used to paint ... oils, acrylics ... she's done some really
incredible stuff - no kit involved. She sketches and is really good at
it. She's a free lance photographer as well, and for many years she
spun, wove, sewed, knitted, tatted. Heck, at one point she even grew &
cured the flax, spun the linen, and wove a curtain for the kitchen
window (I think she's cross stitching some celtic knotwork on it now).
If I'm lucky, you can tell the stick figure I'm drawing is supposed to
be a person ;) Music? Forget it ... I get all turned around when I try
to read the notes (and believe me, I've tried). I used to consider the
extent of my "artistic" abilities to be my writing - which I could do
when the mood hit me (after becoming a mother, those moments are few &
far between, and usually around 3am). Then I started cross stitching.
I started with stamped cross stitch, and just hated it. I had no idea
what I was doing, and to say the piece was awful is a gross
understatement. I don't know what made me pick up a counted kit, but I
did and took right to it. The addiction quickly followed, and now I
quite gleefully stitch :)
Lauren Kuik
care we put into our needlework that makes it art, regardless of the
medium - cross stitch, embroidery, etc.
I, too, change fibers and colors and beads . . . that allows me additional
creative input. But the loving and heartfelt thoughts that accompany my work
make them most special and that can be seen by the observers.
Lauren
St. Pete, FL
"victoria" <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message
news:h8d8etk7si4jbbnsm...@4ax.com...
> What kind of person would ever say something like that, anyway? Even if I
> thought it, it certainly would not be something I'd say to you if you were
the
> avid stitcher.
>
> anyone. As long as my intention is pure of heart and it brings pleasure
to me,
> my husband, or my friends...I feel justified in doing it. If someone
questioned
> my intention, that is another story. I would explain if that part was not
> clear.
>
> However, with regard to the artistic expression of the stitcher who did
not
> design the work...hmmm, that is some set of couluones on the person who
said
> that to you, the stitcher. It is definitely not just like painting by
number.
> This is an art which we perform because, compared to a beginning stitcher,
or a
> stitcher who does not take their time, my work looks like it should go in
a
> museum. Yes, I think I take THAT much care to lay each stitch in so the
piece
> expresses my love for the design. In that expression, I am creating art.
As a
> design unfurls in front of my eyes as I stitch bottom to top, it is ME who
is
> placing, counting, and being sure the floss lay right.
>
design
> out in its intended placement, which makes the design come alive. It is
my
> appreciation of the designers "art" which makes me a creator of the art.
>
> One step further, I avoid people of such ignorance. Because of this, I
have a
> relatively small circle, as many people are pretty ignorant, I find.
>
> Victoria
>
>
wrote:
> "I would have to ask the questioner. I haven't had a chance
> to ask the questioners the question they've been questioning."
>
> - G. Dubya Bush, Jan 8, 2001.
> *****
Pat Porter
work as it sounds, poor girl! Maybe she just sees perfection in the work of
the designer and doesn`t want to spoil it with gew-gaws.
After all, the Mona Lisa wouldn`t have been half so effective of it was
painted to tone in with the decorations of whoever commissioned it!
I have a friend who selects her pictures because they contain the same
colours as her paintwork - not for their actual content! Overall the effect
is very lovely, but when you really look at the pictures, you wonder why she
bothered to "pick" them at all!
Pat P.
"Karen C - California" wrote
Although my friend Kat does lovely work, very
RoseAnne
(For the record, I seldom change anything that isn't on the pattern and
instructions. The designers do a wonderful job, and I'd hate to put so much
time and effort into something already perfect, and then fudge it up. There
is a reason why I do XS and not design it :o)...hey, I can admit my
weaknesses.)
--
RoseAnne
"Seanette Blaylock" <seanette.spam...@impulse.net> wrote in
message news:9nk8etc6lv1otpbj1...@4ax.com...
Sheena Mackenzie
some art nouveau that had in fact been done by a chimp or gorilla or
somesuch. Good laugh that one. Sheena
s.e.l
I suppose it is something like painting-by-numbers. But I can honestly say
I have only run into 1 person in my life who was unable to paint by numbers.
As for cross-stitching ? I can't tell you how many people have tried it
after seeing some of my pieces, and who literally can not do it. It shocks
me, as it seems relatively easy - at least the basics.
However, I had a very interesting conversation with the owner of my
(favourite) LNS this weekend. I had taken a piece - Flower Power by Cross
Wings - in to finally get it framed. We had it spread open on the table,
looking at various frames etc. (great fun !) and almost everyone in the
shop kept coming by and commenting on how fabulous it looked. Now I tend to
be rather ho-hum about things. Cross-stitching doesn't seem all that
complicated, so I figure anyone could stitch the piece. But the owner
started explaining how it is a real art. That simply putting x's on a piece
of cloth wasn't necessarily, but laying them correctly, producing even
stitches in the correct places, modifying designs even slightly to suit
yourself (even if it's just finding the correct place to stitch you
"signature") - that all took an artistic eye. And she repeatedly said she
had multitudes of people who came by just to look at the model pieces and
often said they loved to look of cross-stitch, they simply could not do it -
they didn't have the talent or the know-how to finish a piece.
And I have to admit, I think counted-cross-stitch does take a bit more
talent than perhaps does stamped cross-stitch.
But I think that is an arguement that can never be won. Aggravating isn't
it ?
Shannon
"Jacinta Lodge" <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3AE3E1E2...@chemie.fu-berlin.de...
Dianne Lewandowski
great difference in true design artistry. One need only to look at some
of the masterful works in embroidery done ages ago (or even recently -
although the modern stuff just doesn't appeal to me). These designs
were accomplished by trained artists. In any embroidery medium, the
artist/designer has to know what works with what stitches - even if he
doesn't stitch them. Usually, a master stitcher works with an artist.
Now, I can draw a flower and a leaf, but certainly would NOT want to
paint my own wallpaper design. It takes an ARTIST to do that - who
understands color, shading, design concepts. Just look at William
Morris' work, or Marilyn Imblooms, Judy Chicago or Lula Chang - and a
host of many others past and present. If you've ever seen an Ayrshire
piece - it is not just the embroidery - it is the design.
I can design small works, especially for teaching pieces. I would NOT
attempt to do anything large scale, as I lack the talent.
But I refuse to demean the artists. Yes, there are those I don't
appreciate, those with whom I feel are crass. But I know enough to know
that I simply "don't know enough" to make a judgment. :-) That being
said, I certainly can tell an amateur's work.
We are craftsmen in our artform of needlework. And it takes YEARS to
become masters at it. Whether you change what a designer has said to
do, or copy it verbatim. A color change here or a stitch change there
doesn't make you an artist. But those same things, well done, do make
you a gifted craftsman. And there's a select few, worldwide, who
probably jump the barrier of master craftsman and become an "artist"
with needle and thread because they can either design their own in true
"artistic" fashion or augment a design in such a way that hairs on your
neck stand up. (By, for instance, adding needlelace or openwork that
wasn't in the original design, but enhances it beyond expectations).
We get too worried about "words".
Dianne
Karen C - California
>looking for good recipes :)
Recipe? I don't need no stinkin' recipe!
Quite seriously, I'm one of those good German cooks who generally dispenses
with cookbooks and measuring cups.
Brown as much beef as you need for the size of your family. Add chopped
veggies (kinds and quantities dependent on your family), no-salt tomato sauce
and like amount of water (an 8 ounce can is good for a family-size batch),
season with ground cinnamon, nutmeg & allspice. Simmer till tender.
If you really want to make the kids happy with your accompaniment, take a can
of crescent rolls, and sprinkle cinnamon on the dough before you roll it. If
they aren't eating their share of fruit during the day, roll each one around a
slice of apple. (I sometimes even toss some chunks of apple into the
cinnamon-flavored stew just to be different. I rarely make the exact same
thing twice.)
--
Finished 4/23/01 - SW Angel
Karen C - California
>work as it sounds, poor girl!
Her stitching is incredibly precise, and a joy to look at for that reason.
It's just that -- in every thing she does -- she follows directions as written
and would never think of changing anything.
Someone gave her a recipe which she mentioned to me that she couldn't make
because she doesn't like green peppers. I said "so leave them out", and she
said "but the recipe says to use them". Unless you're making pepper steak or
stuffed peppers, it's not that big a deal to leave them out! "Are you sure?"
I assured her that the cooking police were not going to arrest her for leaving
them out.
She is constantly amazed at my "imagination" in working recipes around what's
in my cupboards that day (no green beans? Fine, I'll add zucchini instead.),
and that I'm "clever" enough to change my stitchery colors, but she was raised
to follow instructions and she's going to follow them as written because God
might spike her with a lightening bolt if she doesn't do what she's told.
Lollee Roberts
<jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> writes:
Others have mentioned Itzhak Perlman and Yo-Yo Ma in music. I would mention Sir
Alec Guinness and Sir John Gielgud versus Sylvester Stallone or Steven Seagal.
Put each of them in "Hamlet" and you cringe. However, Sir Alec or Sir John
cannot kick butt. Add that Stallone and Seagal often help write and produce
their films...so who is the greater artist? ;) Would anyone seriously vote for
the Karate Kids? But Gielgud and Guinness are just "parroting" what someone
else wrote. How can we consider them real artists?
Originality, creativity, artistry, craft. Whatever you want to call it. I think
it's time for Fred to post his little poem about listening to the sound of the
needle flowing through the fabric and hearing the voice of your own being
echoing the Creator, and how can you be unhappy with that?
As a former poster used to say - Have a stitchy day!
Lollee
Seanette Blaylock
Needlework":
>I suppose it is something like painting-by-numbers. But I can honestly say
>I have only run into 1 person in my life who was unable to paint by numbers.
I'm another one. :-)
RoseAnne
Some I follow, some I don't...the ones about cooking and x-stitch I follow
to a T.
Maybe I need someone like you around to show me how to break the rules once
in a while : )
--
RoseAnne
"Karen C - California" <kmc...@aol.com.LuvXS> wrote in message
news:20010423141428...@ng-bj1.aol.com...
Meredith Dill
on end? At least I'm producing something when I stitch!
Meredith
Su/Cutworks
>Obviously i was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable
> format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
> way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of
> course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
As a designer, I can assure you that the people who stitch what I think up
always make me feel very proud that what I imagined someone else made come
to life. People who feel that the only creativity is in the person who
makes a design don't really understand what it's all about. My husband is
an art teacher, and we have had many discussions about what is and isn't
art, we're pretty far apart on what we believe, but in the end we manage to
agree about most things. He didn't see any value in needlework when I
started again but now he's come around and appreciates it far more. And he
can see how attractive it is for someone to take a chart, which is really
only a blueprint, and make something of it that has a lot of yourself in it.
> Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
> arguements in response?
Tell them you'd rather have your own hand-worked original version than a
cheap print on the wall. Each stitch is a little part of you.
-Su
--
http://www.cutworks.co.uk
emailing as usual in an irregular pattern
Felice Friese
"Jacinta Lodge" <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3AE3E1E2...@chemie.fu-berlin.de...
> I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
> person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more
artistic
> worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
> the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us
> who simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this
acceptable
> format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
> way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it.
Of
> course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
> arguements in response?
>
>
This person is not your friend and deserves no response at all. AT ALL!
Felice
Angie
ranging one.
Martha Stewart considers what she does to be "domestic art"
Andy Warhol and his group considered cans of Campbell soup to be "art".
I once visited an exhibit at the modern art museum here in Fort Worth called
"Clickers".
Imagine a large rectangular room with a row of benches in the middle. Plain
white
walls, ceiling and floors, with little metal clicks sounding from different
points in the
room in some pre-determined order. This is called "art".
There is most definitely an "art" to getting a graph translated to fabric.
People who play a piano translate notes on paper into music. Are they artists?
(someone else pointed this one out and I agree wholeheartedly)
Beauty and art are in the eye of the beholder.
Angie from Texas
WIP: Daffodil by Pam Kellogg
would like to start someday - Magical Night - TW; Companions - TW
Cat Alphabet & Welcome Cats - Vermillion
Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum
Once upon a time I made everyone who worked for me complete a small
design (bookmark) I wanted them to realize the work that it takes for
each design that they were producing. It gave them all an amazing
appreciation for the customers and the tops went on straighter and the
pictures came out straight. I would walk over to a shelf of 500 designs
and pick one out. I would say this is the chart that someone has bought
because they scrimped on groceries or they gave up a new dress or they
had a garage sale. It should look perfect! The reason I knew about the
buyer of the chart is because that's how I bought them 18 years ago and
I paid $7 for a design.
As far as Justifying Needlework when I sign the back of a finished
framed design I sometimes write.....
"I can imagine 10,000 butterflies coming over the hill.
I can write the directions for 10,000 butterflies coming over the hill.
But it is the stitcher who makes the 10,000 butterflies coming over the
hill appear in all of their glory for the world to see."
We all do our part to make the visions appear. Each finished design
tells a story to the stitcher. They remember where they were when the
sections were finished. It's like a time line and it's also a tribute to
time that was not wasted. The designs show that with each small part and
tiny seemingly bitty stitch is built upon to create a whole thing of
beauty.
The movement of the hand and the needle and the colors are soothing to
days of stress and work. We proclaim that in the midst of all of the
turmoil we have found time to do this item of art. We are whole ...we
are complete.....our time is recorded! And then we give it away! So that
we can do it again. We step forward into a new place of color and decide
where our creativity will take us.
If this isn't art then I don't know what is!
Marilyn
B & Y McBRIDE wrote:
>
> I think everyone who stitches has come across people like this. My usual
> response ranges from 'I know it is only crosses - here is the fabric and
> thread you show me just how easy it is.' Or simply 'If you did it you would
> understand.'
>
> I have had many many people saying negative things about my cross
> stitch -not the quality of the finished result - more the amount of 'wasted'
> (their view) time involved. I think it is a way of covering their surprise
> that someone can do something they don't have a clue about. After all, in
> their minds it is only crosses and anyone can thread a needle and make a
> cross stitch on fabric.
>
> JMHO
> Yve
Dianne Lewandowski
"artist". I definitely would put Gielgud in that category. For any
number of reasons. Being an actor, even a good one, doesn't make you an
artist. Perlman, Rubenstein and Yo Yo Ma (thank you for the correction)
are definitely NOT Stallone's. Parroting doesn't have anything to do
with it in these categories of artistry. After all - my stitching in
and of itself is simply parroting what someone else taught me. Whether
that is running stitch, cross stitch or satin stitch. It's ALL been
done before. It's what you DO with it that makes it artistry. True
artistry is very uncommon - in any field.
Stallone is a convincing character actor with rippling muscles and an
interesting persona. But he's not an artist - he's a craftsman.
Dianne
Dianne Lewandowski
Angie wrote:
> People who play a piano translate notes on paper into music. Are they artists? (someone else pointed this one out and I agree wholeheartedly)
> Beauty and art are in the eye of the beholder.
>
Angie - they are only artists if they have the gift of insight, emotion
and the ability to convey the right feeling of the music to the audience
in a fluid, perfect way. The ability to play piano - no matter how
fluently - doesn't make you an artist - it makes you a "piano player".
There are tons of those around :-)
That's why I used music as an analogy.
Dianne
KDLark
>fluently - doesn't make you an artist - it makes you a "piano player".
>There are tons of those around :-)
I agree with what you're saying here, Dianne. For many years, I took piano
lessons and I could play quite well, compared to the other people my piano
teachers taught -- I was always given one of the most difficult pieces at the
recitals. However, I never really "felt" it. One day I visited a friend of
mine, who also played piano, and she sat down and played for me. There was
something different about the way she played -- so fluid, and with emotion.
You could see her whole "self" go into the piano, and hear the difference in
what came out. She was really an artist, a musician.
I don't know if I'll ever be an artist in anything, but I continue to do the
best I can and push myself forward in learning new things in some fields.
I sold the piano, though!
Katrina L.
Karen C - California
>
>I'm another one. :-)
Me, three.
Karen C - California
>something different about the way she played -- so fluid, and with emotion.
My aunt could always tell whether it was her son, or me, playing the piano. In
terms of getting my fingers on the right keys, I'm as good as he is, but my
playing is robotic, devoid of emotion. My typewriter keyboard required me to
strike all the keys with exactly the same force, and I never learned to do
differently at the piano.
Karen C - California
>Maybe I need someone like you around to show me how to break the rules once
>in a while : )
Step one, go buy Cattitudes, I believe it's #4. Stitch up "If you obey all the
rules, you miss all the fun. [K.Hepburn]" Hang it on the wall as a daily
reminder.
I'm a true child of the 70s. Bare feet, long hair hanging loose, T-shirts,
jeans, and believe bras and rules are best when burned. :)
j walker
as a craftswoman not an artist, even when I have done the designing. Most
often, it takes a fair amount of skill, practise and patience to do good
embroidery of whatever type and whatever period. But once in a while you see
a piece that sings. Some combination of colour, design and technique had
produced a piece that is outstanding. Technical perfection alone does not
make an artistic creation. Every performance by Yo yo ma or John Gilgood
did/does not "sing". But sometimes they do. Every painting by Van Gogh was
not a masterpiece, we just commemorate the ones that are.
Having said all that, better a good craftsman that a bad artist. It is very
fine line between a good craftsman and a good artist.
jean w.
"JennyWren" <vand...@agecon.purdue.edutwist> wrote in message
news:3AE441B4...@agecon.purdue.edutwist...
> I prefer to think of myself as a craftswoman, instead of an artist. Maybe
> it is just a philosophical difference. But I prefer to focus on executing
a
> design with skill and insightful interpretation--craftsmanship, by my
> definition. I tend to define "art" as original work. But that is just my
> way of looking at it. I lump needlework in with woodworking, making
> clothing, and gardening. It isn't the activity that defines whether the
> product is art or not, but the approach taken in its creation.
>
> The Wren
>
>
amers
cantor at weddings and funerals and play the organ at my church) and as an
amateur. Maybe I'm holding a high opinion of myself, but I definitely
consider myself an artist in that field. It takes skill both to execute the
"paint by number" (chart or musical score) and to interpret the directions
to suit one's personal taste, for example:
Aida, linen or other evenweave, fabric color, DMC or Anchor....or something
else, Over one, or over two, French knot, colonial knot, or beads....or some
combination?
Or loud or soft, accented or legato, phrasing, and execution of chord
pattern (arpeggio, single bass note or full chord) when only a chord name is
given?
When I started stitching, I used kits and followed directions to the letter.
Now I choose more ambitious designs, design some of my own stuff, and change
designs to suit. I would equate this quite closely to my musical life,
where I began with Mary Had a Little Lamb on the violin, progressed to
not-much-better stuff on the piano, and am now at the point where I'm
playing Chopin and Schubert and composing some of my own stuff. Obviously I
consider what I'm doing now more "art" than what I used to do......but no
one was prouder than I was after completing my first XS project (still
hanging on Grandma's wall!) or when I realized I could read music.
In short......yes, there are probably needleworkers who are still at the
paint-by-number phase artistically, just as there are painters who paint by
number and musicians who use those coded direction charts on those zither
things (anyone know what I'm talking about here?) But you know what?
They're still creating! They're still doing more than the non-crafter who's
so sharply criticizing! And above and beyond that, for most of us, this is a
*hobby*, something we do because we love it (and those of us who make money
at NW started out doing it as a hobby!). So critics be damned, we'll keep
stitching our hearts out :)
-Amy
Liz Hampton
> From: Jacinta Lodge <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de>
> Has anyone else had this?
> I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
> person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more artistic
> worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
> the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us
> who simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this
> work. Obviously i was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable
> format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
> way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of
> course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
> Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
> arguements in response?
>
> Jacinta
Just tell them that you never argue with anyone who is wrong. :-)))
Liz from Humbug
I think that color by number books are great gifts for people in the
hospital recovering from "who knows what". They don't have to think or use
many muscles. If don't want to take the pictures home, you can leave them
in pediatrics for them to hang on the walls. If they have grandchildren,
they can send them to the kids instead of the kids sending pictures to
grandma/grandpa :-)))
Bill Williams
is a professional artist. He paints, sculpts, and casts his own pieces in
bronze, to mention a few things. He has a degree in fine arts and a degree
in art education. I have beautiful murals, paintings and sculptures all
over my home. I, myself, have made porcelain dolls and I was a potter for
many years until a back injury forced me to quit. My husband is very vocal
about the difference between "fine art" and the "little crafty stuff",
therefore he would not hesitate to tell me if he thought my needlework was
just "little crafty stuff", nor would he allow it to hang on our walls.
When our home was chosen to be in the Christmas tour of homes this year, he
insisted that I borrow back all the L & L angels that I have done for our
girls and hang them in my angel/doll bedroom. We have actually had this
discussion, where I make the comment that "anyone" could cross stitch. His
thoughts about it are that maybe just about anyone could do it, but the fact
is that not just everyone does. It is very detailed and precise and requires
a lot of patience, which many people just don't have. He goes on to say
that there are tapestries and fine needlework in the great museums of the
world. Maybe they used a pattern, maybe they didn't, but the fact remains
that the needlework we do now will be handed down for many generations and
will be considered priceless to those who own them. Connie
"Jacinta Lodge" <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3AE3E1E2...@chemie.fu-berlin.de...
Tobie & Herb
insensitive jerk had to say?" We do needlework because we get great
pleasure from it; some even get to make a living at it. In the end, it's
how we feel about our work that matters, and if we feel it's art, then it
is!
Tobie
--
In Rotation: Picture of 5 clowns (NP); Ocean Princess (James Himsworth
C.C.S.); Millennium "Peace on Earth" by Ellen Maurer-Stroh (C.C S.);
Highland Light by Christine Champ Andrews (C.C.S.); NP "Shoe" by Sharon G.;
Tallit Bag by Lee
Finished: 3/7/01-Tallit Bag
Bess
> What I'd like to know is why it has to be [flourish of trumpets] ART
> to be worth doing?
Why can't it just be fun?
Best Stitches,
Bess
Newsletters and other pieces of information
http://www.geocities.com/bess_of_hardwick/news1.html
Bess' Photos
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/bess_of_hardwick
Current rotation: Jean Farish's America, Celtic Knot, Beary Christmas
Advent Calendar, Ann Trabue Sampler, Baby Afghan, assorted RRs
Dianne Lewandowski
Dianne
Dianne Lewandowski
have such meaning as time goes on - no matter your ability. One needn't
be an artist to enjoy playing music. (Anymore than one needs to be an
artist or master craftsman to receive benefits from stitching).
These are both activities that reach our souls, and in turn touch
"other's" souls.
I never want to demean anyone's skills. You can enjoy something at a
beginner or "clutzy" level - and it can be very good for you and those
around you. It's the process that counts. What is that new-age
thinking? "If a butterfly flaps its wings in Singapore, does it rain in
New Jersey?" That's what I mean by the word: process. We reach into
ourselves and touch others. One needn't be at the highest level of
attainment to do that.
Dianne
RoseAnne
--
RoseAnne
"Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum" <mar...@tiag.com> wrote in message
news:3AE28FD3...@tiag.com...
Dianne Lewandowski
doesn't really mean much. Typing doesn't translate to poor piano
keyboard skills. I didn't want someone else reading your posts and
thinking "Wow! Maybe that's why I don't play very well - because I took
robotic style typing!"
We are all born with "gifts". Some of us are wonderful at social
skills, others of us are great at organizational skills - the list goes
on. You are either born with a degree of talent in any given field, or
you're not. Some of it can be taught. Some of it can't because it
comes from an inner "dimension" that is beyond current explanation.
Unfortunately, we haven't learned how to define a lot of "gifts".
Academic ones are easy to categorize. But other gifts aren't rewarded
in this culture. They remain un-nurtured, and the "gifted" remain
frustrated unless they can come to terms with it. :-)
What many of us need to do is learn to be happy with the gifts we have,
not be envious or covet those with a greater gift (not speaking
specifically about you as an individual here - but the collective
"you"). Nurture those gifts - whatever they might be. Collaborate with
others who augment or enhance our skills.
Dianne
Myna
"Bill Williams" <bil...@fn.net> wrote in message
news:oY9F6.461$5W2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com...
Hi Connie,
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your post. I left it all intact
in case someone else might not have had the opportunity to read it. You
husbands sentiment is quite on target. Great Post!--How many MLI angels
have you done?
Myna
--
WIPS:
Jennifer Gilligan-May
Terrance Nolan-Spike
MLI-Celtic Spring
B & Y McBRIDE
Regards
Yve
"Karen C - California" <kmc...@aol.com.LuvXS> wrote in message
news:20010423211348...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
Meredith Dill
Meredith
victoria wrote:
<SNIP>
> We are all individual, but when someone makes us so uncomfortable about what we
> do, in this case cross stitch, that we feel the need to justify...well, poop on
> that dolt.
>
> Victoria
Carissa
Carissa in Calgary
"Marilyn Leavitt-Imblum" <mar...@tiag.com> wrote in message
news:3AE28FD3...@tiag.com...
>
Unknown
<jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Has anyone else had this?
>I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
>person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more artistic
>worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
>the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us
>who simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this
>work. Obviously i was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable
>format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
>way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of
>course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
>Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
>arguements in response?
>
>Jacinta
>
I don't think you need to justify anything. It is bad enough to
accidentally blurt out something thoughtless; it is just beyond rude
to deliberately put down someone else's interests. So what if it isn't
high art? I think that most of us have discovered that any pursuit is
difficult to do really well; they all take patience, care, and quite a
bit of dedication. You can make something that is beautiful, will last
a long time, is not easy to duplicate really well, and will be
treasured. That ought to be worth something.
I guess I think of myself as just crafty, although I am working on
several designs. The designs I stitch are someone else's
much-appreciated talent, but I make it *real.*
Lynne
Karen C - California
>beginner or "clutzy" level
Absolutely! I cannot draw to save my life, but I loved playing with my crayons
and colored pencils. I still buy a new box of Crayolas every couple of years
because I enjoy scribbling with them. But even I am not going to put my
drawings on the wall because they're so awful. I just enjoy the process, and
when I'm done, I stick them in the recycling bin. (OK, now you know why I have
that big pile of scrap paper that's printed on one side cluttering up my dining
room.)
Karen C - California
>> strike all the keys with exactly the same force, and I never learned to do
>> differently at the piano.
Dianne replied:> Typing doesn't translate to poor piano
>keyboard skills.
I didn't say it did. I said that I learned to type in a certain way, and never
*learned* to do differently at the piano. (Same cousin is an excellent
pianist, who later learned to be an excellent typist, so I know they're not
mutually-exclusive.)
At the time I was learning piano, I was spending more hours a week at a manual
typewriter than at a piano. "Manual" being the important word. (You can
"play" a computer keyboard with different touch on each key and still get the
same color imprint on your paper.) I didn't have the talent to make a career
of piano, so it was more important to develop the correct touch for the
typewriter, and it became automatic to use the same pressure all the time.
I'm sure a good teacher could teach me to properly caress a piano keyboard, but
it's never been a high priority for me to learn. Not when I was taking lessons
as a child, and not when I play only for my own enjoyment as an adult.
Anne B.
"Jacinta Lodge" <jlo...@chemie.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3AE3E1E2...@chemie.fu-berlin.de...
> I had a very interesting (offensive?) discussion on the weekend with a
> person who decided to tell me that my needlework was of no more artistic
> worth than Painting-by-Numbers. According to his theory designers were
> the only needleworkers with any artistic capabilities and those of us
> who simply follow their designs cannot claim any based purely on this
> work. Obviously i was flabbergasted (to put it in a socially acceptable
> format), managed to stutter out a few responses but, as is always the
> way for me, I couldn´t find the arguement I needed when I needed it. Of
> course at home on my own later, I could think up plenty!
> Has this happened to anyone else and did you come up with some good
> arguements in response?
>
> Jacinta
>
Ooooh, this generated a LOT of discussion before I got back on line! And we
seem to be pretty much in agreement that -- well, what are we in agreement
about -- ah. We're in agreement that your person was wrong. Though we seem
not to be in agreement about precisely why.
I just came back from a family reunion -- several of the relatives had to
leave early so they could go watch the hockey playoffs (I forget who was in
on this, though I'm in Pittsburgh and should be paying attention), and my
uncle was shocked -- as usual -- that I didn't know a thing about the hockey
games.
He said he wasn't disappointed in me, but he couldn't figure out what I did
with my time.
Well, what I do with my time is that if I HAD been watching the hockey game,
I would have gotten some needlework done.
"De gustibus non disputandum est" --
there's no accountiing for tastes; to each his or her own.
If I had to sit and watch the hockey game without something to do with my
hands, I'd go crazy.
cheers, Anne B.
RoseAnne
interrupt this marriage for the hockey season" because he is so obsessed
with it. When I'm stitching away I can block out the sound and have a ball
with my project, and DH thinks I'm wonderful for sitting with him through
the game : )
--
RoseAnne
"Anne B." <tin...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:teb8956...@corp.supernews.com...
Seanette Blaylock
Needlework":
>> What I'd like to know is why it has to be [flourish of trumpets] ART
>> to be worth doing?
>Why can't it just be fun?
That's what I would like to know. If I have the pressure of having to
produce [trumpets] ART to be able to consider what I do worthwhile, I
might as well give up now, between lack of artistic talent and
distaste for the pretentiousness and snobbery found in the ART world.
--
Seanette Blaylock [make obvious address correction to e-mail]
"Either you're being sarcastic, or your post leaked over to me from a
parallel universe, or one or both of us is insane and/or stupid and/or
not paying attention and/or lying." Ben, ATSR
Seanette Blaylock
"Re: What Consitutes Art was Re: Justifying Needlework: Don't
bother!":
>I didn't say it did. I said that I learned to type in a certain way, and never
>*learned* to do differently at the piano. (Same cousin is an excellent
>pianist, who later learned to be an excellent typist, so I know they're not
>mutually-exclusive.)
My high school required a typing class. I noticed that the students I
knew were good piano players did the best in the typing class. :-)
Meredith Dill
where they want without looking at them.
Meredith
Seanette Blaylock wrote:
>
> Karen C - California
Pat Porter
concert typist by now!
Pat P.
East Anglian Xstitch Designs
http://homepages.tesco.net/~porter
Country Village scenes
"Dianne Lewandowski" <dia...@heritageshoppe.com> wrote in message
news:3AE57507...@heritageshoppe.com...
Pat Porter
I wonder if the fellow that caused all this furore is an afficiando of the
so-called modern art. Some modern Art hits the spot, but on the whole I
wouldn`t cross the street to look at it - very little of it is what you
could call BEAUTIFUL, and in many cases the "hidden meaning" is so darned
well hidden that it means nothing at all to most people!
For instance the pile of bricks much heralded as a work of "Art", and the
pickled corpse of a cow - and many so-called fibre arts consisting of what
appears to be a collection of rags and string. Of course if you don`t like
it you`re sneered at as being unimaginitive and stupid for "not
understanding it". If that makes me a Philistine so be it! Give me a
beautiful Old Master or Impressionist - or a wonderful cross stitch design
any day!
Someone mentioned the much lauded efforts by Apes earlier - I saw on tv a
few months back, that someone was making a fortune by selling modern
"Paintings", done by an elephant! All you could say is that the elephant
appeared to be thoroughly enjoying it!
Pat P.
East Anglian Xstitch Designs
http://homepages.tesco.net/~porter
Country Village scenes
What I'd like to know is why it has to be [flourish of trumpets] ART
DeannaAv
our own time doing it . . . end of story :)
Deanna A.
in southern New York
Finished in 2001: Beginner Hardanger Bellpull, Strawberries & Cream
XS/Hardanger Sachet, Bucilla Baby Bunny
WIPS: TW Floral Bellpull & Stretch, FAHS Monet Water Lilies, Topiary Afghan,
Christmas Ornaments
Kay Hahn
Might have been "The Subversive Stitch: embroidery and the making of the
feminine" by Rozsika Parker.
Kay at kh...@cas.org
all usual disclaimers apply .nothing witty here
Carolyn Potts
that we all rather get our dander up when our hobby/profession is
disparaged.
A long time ago, while working on a bargello luggage rack strap I was
chatting with a fellow who obviously thought rather a lot of himself. After
a while he suddenly rose and said that he had to do some "real" work. I
didn't say anything, but though very loudly, that my "work" would be around
much longer than his paper work would mean anything.
What we do is carry on a tradition, and enhance it with out inventiveness
and care, Besides, I can lumber my family and friends with stuff that they
don't dare give away because they know how much time was spent. <VSG>
"Pat Porter" <pat.p...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mviF6.5588$Tv2.7...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Karen C - California
>the game : )
The only excuse I could find for sitting through Chargers games was that at the
end of the season, I'd have a completed sweater, size XL, for the man I was
sitting through them with.
Karen C - California
California requires a certain percentage of the construction budget to be
devoted to "Art in Public Places". As a result, we have a twenty-foot stack of
used luggage in the baggage area of the new airport terminal. DBF saw it the
first time and said "#@$%, I could've done that, and I could use the million,
too."
Kim Brown
>
> Ah well, perhaps if she`d learned the piano first, she would have been a
> concert typist by now!
>
> Pat P.
...and could play Remington's Typewriter Concerto in A4 Major!
--
Trish {|:OI}
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
kimberlii
wrote:
.
>When our home was chosen to be in the Christmas tour of homes this year, he
>insisted that I borrow back all the L & L angels that I have done for our
>girls and hang them in my angel/doll bedroom. We have actually had this
>discussion, where I make the comment that "anyone" could cross stitch. His
>thoughts about it are that maybe just about anyone could do it, but the fact
>is that not just everyone does.
Exactly, my husband feels that anyone can be a doctor too. But it's
the ones with the time, not to mention the money that actually become
doctors. I think that some other fields not just anybody could do. For
one I could never be a singer and because of that greatly admire
anybody that can sing well and consider that art. My father was a
graphic artist for McDonnell Douglas, I don't know if you would call
the pictures he did art, but when he came home and painted, that was
definitely art. I sort of feel that when people do really well at
things it becomes art. My husband would say a candy apple paint coat
highly buffed on a car is art. Have you ever seen a really good
carpenter work? Just watching him/her amazes me and I would call that
art. I guess it's all in how much something is admired. I for one
don't mind being called a craftsman, believe me, I'm my own harshest
judge when it comes to my cross stitch, painting or sewing, so what
other people think doesn't bother me. Oh wait, there was one thing
today that made me flabbergasted. My DD's little friend asked me if I
were cross stitchin my project for a t-shirt. It's MLI's
Spiritdancer!! I cracked up and said I don't think so.
Kim in SW Fl
CandyCorr
It is Tony Minieri's "Stars for the Millenium", which he taught at The
Edwardian Needle in Bloomfield, NJ.
A needlepoint piece composed of 12 quilt block patterns. The piece was taught
over a 15 month period,1 block per month and three tier border/sashing.
Everyone stitched the same patterns, each used the same threads, but chose
their own colors.
Tony has requested that we provide him the list of or colors and bring the
completed pieces to the shop to be photographed. We have now posted about 8
individual pieces and no two are anywhere alike. Each square changes ratically
with the change of color.
Candy
Ruby M Scott
great, but the so called art.???? Even I can run a roller down a
canvas to make a stripe. Lets see that persons stitching.
Cheers,
Ruby
jtruly12
love in the art museum in my town. I don't really know exactly what there is
about it but it speaks to me. It is simply a large canvas that very, very,
very subtly goes from maroon to violet to green- so imperceptibly that you
can't tell where the colours change.
Judith
"victoria" <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message
news:h9f9et4rajjk4ju8l...@4ax.com...
> That's just it. Art is in the eyes of the beholder. I remember one year I
went
> with my dearest friend, Joseph, to the Philadelphia Flower Show. While we
were
> in town, we also went to the art museum. In one of the galleries was a
huge
> canvas (must have been 15 feet square) hanging on the wall. Half of it
was
> white, the other half, black. I looked at Joseph and asked, "That's art?"
>
> Well, as an artist he threw a hissy fit and didn't speak to me for the
rest of
> the day. To HIM it was art...and HIGH ART at that! He is a professional
> artist, and sells his work. He also falls prey to the pretentiousness of
the
> art world, and I guess I don't. I don't buy into all that pomp and
> circumstance. However, in HIS eyes it was art. So, does that make it
more
> artistic? Does my failure (?) to see it as art make it less than
artistic?
>
> I am also a crafter and have no problem calling myself that, but more than
not,
> I am an artisan. That is what I truly feel about who I am in my soul. I
create
> with my hands, attached to my body, operated by my brain, driven by my
> imagination, fed by thoughts.
>
> We are all individual, but when someone makes us so uncomfortable about
what we
> do, in this case cross stitch, that we feel the need to justify...well,
poop on
> that dolt.
>
> Victoria
>
>
<she...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes, remember when all the art critics (who are just as bad) raved over
> >some art nouveau that had in fact been done by a chimp or gorilla or
> >somesuch. Good laugh that one. Sheena
> >
> >Seanette Blaylock wrote:
> >
> >> Dianne Lewandowski had some very interesting things to say about "Re:
> >> Justifying Needlework":
> >>
> >> >Stupid, sophomoric comments by this individual. Do I think I'm a
> >> >needlework artist? No - and I design as well as stitch. But that
> >> >doesn't make me an "artist" - only a novice craftsman. But there's
> >> >nothing wrong with being a craftsman, either. Takes years to get even
> >> >to that level.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Dianne. I do NOT have the necessary talents or skills to
> >> design, so simply buy what someone else designs and do it.
> >>
> >> What I'd like to know is why it has to be [flourish of trumpets] ART
> >> snooty place, and am much happier among the crafts types. :-)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Seanette Blaylock [make obvious address correction to e-mail]
> >> parallel universe, or one or both of us is insane and/or stupid and/or
> >> not paying attention and/or lying." Ben, ATSR
>
>
> "I would have to ask the questioner. I haven't had a chance
> to ask the questioners the question they've been questioning."
>
> - G. Dubya Bush, Jan 8, 2001.
> *****
Karen C - California
attaching urinals to living room walls and charging the socialites $15,000 for
them? He had them CONNED into believing this was the height of art. (Of
course, their maids were the ones who had to clean them out after someone at a
party used them and discovered they didn't flush.)
I believe he was also buying plain white fridges for $600 and selling them
(untouched) as "art" for $10,000.
Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply
> pianists are already used to making their fingers
>>go where they want without looking at them.
>>
>I have to agree. I played piano before I took typing class, and it
>was very easy to transfer those skills.
>
OK -- do those of you who have played piano or guitar or are good typists
stitch two handed? I am most comfortable stitching two handed -- I play piano
and guitar and have been a pretty fair typist. I wonder if two handed
stitching is more comfortable for me as a result of all those years of piano,
guitar and typing practice?? CiaoMeow >^;;^<
.
PAX, Tia Mary >^;;^<
Angels can't show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their
WHISKERS!!
Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs!
No husband was ever shot doing dishes!
Visit my photo album http://www.photopoint.com
Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply
This has always rubbed me the wrong way -- why some people think we need to
"justify" our needlework! My stock answer is that at least I am producing
something of lasting value with my free time. That's more than can be said for
those who spend their free time watching the "boob tube"! That word -- justify
-- makes me see red!!! We don't have to justify what we do with our time
unless is has a negative impact on someone or something we are personally
responsible for! (*#$(*&#$(*^@$# idjuts got NO cooth!!! CiaoMeow >^;;^<
Mark Shannon
subject. I'm afraid when I read it I immediately
thought of the article I had recently read about
paint-by-number artwork becoming collectible.
Obviously, only those whose execution was good are
collectible but they do strike a chord in some people.
Certainly, well-executed blue-line work by previous
generations are cherished by collectors now. I think
your conversation companion is going to step on quite a
few toes if he keeps to that line of thought he
plastered you with.
Julia Cameron, a well-known author and teacher of
creativity, puts forth the idea that we all have an
artist within us. We don't have to be professional
artists to enjoy and employ that part of us. I would
guess that Julia would call the person you spoke with,
a poisonous playmate. His creativity may be blocked
and he can't stand for anyone else to be enjoying their
creativity. When I string beads, stitch cloth or sing
a song, I'm enjoying the process and feeding my artist
soul. Even if no one else finds value in what I have
created, I'm enjoying it.
No argument is going to change that person's mind.
Just look at him sadly, call him a "poor dear" and go
onto something that makes you happy. He's not worth
agonizing over.
Mary K.
Seanette Blaylock
say about "Re: What Consitutes Art was Re: Justifying Needlework:
Don't bother!":
>OK -- do those of you who have played piano or guitar or are good typists
>stitch two handed? I am most comfortable stitching two handed -- I play piano
>and guitar and have been a pretty fair typist. I wonder if two handed
>stitching is more comfortable for me as a result of all those years of piano,
>guitar and typing practice??
I'm a touch-typist [had to take the class in high school], and stitch
two-handed. I do not play any musical instrument.
Karen C - California
Bill Williams
that. I don't keep very much of what I do. I think those angels are
absolutely beautiful. Thank you for you kind comments. Connie
"Myna" <st...@nospamhome.com> wrote in message
news:3ReF6.37004$122.7...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
>
> "Bill Williams" <bil...@fn.net> wrote in message
> news:oY9F6.461$5W2.1...@nntp1.onemain.com...
> > Well, I can argue this point with a certain amount of expertise. My
> husband
> > is a professional artist. He paints, sculpts, and casts his own pieces
in
> > bronze, to mention a few things. He has a degree in fine arts and a
> degree
> > in art education. I have beautiful murals, paintings and sculptures
all
> > over my home. I, myself, have made porcelain dolls and I was a potter
> for
> > many years until a back injury forced me to quit. My husband is very
> vocal
> > about the difference between "fine art" and the "little crafty stuff",
> > therefore he would not hesitate to tell me if he thought my needlework
was
> > just "little crafty stuff", nor would he allow it to hang on our walls.
> > When our home was chosen to be in the Christmas tour of homes this year,
> he
> > insisted that I borrow back all the L & L angels that I have done for
our
> > girls and hang them in my angel/doll bedroom. We have actually had this
> > discussion, where I make the comment that "anyone" could cross stitch.
> His
> > thoughts about it are that maybe just about anyone could do it, but the
> fact
> requires
> > a lot of patience, which many people just don't have. He goes on to
say
> > that there are tapestries and fine needlework in the great museums of
the
> > world. Maybe they used a pattern, maybe they didn't, but the fact
remains
> > that the needlework we do now will be handed down for many generations
and
> > will be considered priceless to those who own them. Connie
>
> Hi Connie,
> Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your post. I left it all
intact
> in case someone else might not have had the opportunity to read it. You
> husbands sentiment is quite on target. Great Post!--How many MLI angels
> have you done?
>
> Myna
> --
> WIPS:
> Jennifer Gilligan-May
> Terrance Nolan-Spike
> MLI-Celtic Spring
>
>
Bill Williams
"B & Y McBRIDE" <bre...@bmcbride.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9c40as$u13$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Me four and two daughters five and six
>
> Regards
> Yve
> "Karen C - California" <kmc...@aol.com.LuvXS> wrote in message
> news:20010423211348...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
> > >>I have only run into 1 person in my life who was unable to paint by
> numbers.
> > >
> > >I'm another one. :-)
> >
> > Me, three.
Jacinta Lodge
Couldn´t get online yesterday so I am amazed at how long this thread has
turned out to be! But reading others responses, I think Diane´s initial
response was right - I just hadn´t really made the definition myself between
artist and craftsman. I guess I do consider myself a craftsman
(woman/person/humanoid?) more than an artist. However, that doesn´t negate
the possibility that my craft has artistic merit. I don´t just work from
kits, I play on my own with cross stitch, crewel and beginning stumpwork
(although I will say that at this stage the best the stumpwork efforts can
be described as is not QUITE painful to the eye!).
But, all in all, I think the craftistic (as in vs artistic - can I invent
that word now?) view of what we do is probably the most descriptive and
accurate. Now how many more decades will it take to work up into a Master
Craftsman position?
Jacinta
Jacinta Lodge schrieb:
Tobie & Herb
I am a very good typist, played piano many years ago (and loved it) and
stitch two-handed!
Tobie
--
In Rotation: Picture of 5 clowns (NP); Ocean Princess (James Himsworth
C.C.S.); Millennium "Peace on Earth" by Ellen Maurer-Stroh (C.C S.);
Highland Light by Christine Champ Andrews (C.C.S.); NP "Shoe" by Sharon G.;
Tallit Bag by Lee
Finished: 3/7/01-Tallit Bag
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
, and made goog money, but worked hard employing their families and
group of understudies. Ps Michael angello thought of himself as Master
craftsman. And In the middle ages painters were considered craftsmen
just like printers , ironmongers , tailors etc.....
mirjam
Leaward
Seanette Blaylock <seanette.spam...@impulse.net> wrote in message
news:ebbbet8sbt7o157ta...@4ax.com...
> Karen C - California had some very interesting things to say about
> "Re: What Consitutes Art was Re: Justifying Needlework: Don't
> bother!":
>
> >I didn't say it did. I said that I learned to type in a certain way, and
never
> >*learned* to do differently at the piano. (Same cousin is an excellent
> >pianist, who later learned to be an excellent typist, so I know they're
not
> >mutually-exclusive.)
>
> My high school required a typing class. I noticed that the students I
> knew were good piano players did the best in the typing class. :-)
>
> --
> Seanette Blaylock
I type like the wind -- on a manual typewriter I can generally type
approximately 90+ words a minute, and on a computer keyboard where you don't
have to worry about carriage return I can type in the 120+ range, with a 1%
error ratio -- yet I can't play the piano worth a darn. You need to have a
good ear too, LOL.
Leaward
Louise Sugar
Herrshners carries them as well
"Bill Williams" <bil...@fn.net> wrote in message
news:pCuF6.1065$5W2.3...@nntp1.onemain.com...
Dianne Lewandowski
Mark Shannon wrote:
well-executed blue-line work by previous
> generations are cherished by collectors now.
There's that term again: blue-line work! I've been here about 6 years
and have NEVER seen this until you and Mary started saying it :-) What
is this? A rejection of terms? (just kidding here).
Actually, embroidery has been stamped on fabric for hundreds of years,
and has been "cherished" since its inception. It was an industry that
brought valued gain to many a starving peoples - including today.
Maybe a few "modern" people are finally discovering what everyone used
to "know".
Dianne
Alison Hendon
California) wrote:
>>You can enjoy something at a
>>beginner or "clutzy" level
>
>Absolutely! I cannot draw to save my life, but I loved playing with my crayons
>and colored pencils. I still buy a new box of Crayolas every couple of years
>because I enjoy scribbling with them. But even I am not going to put my
>drawings on the wall because they're so awful. I just enjoy the process, and
>when I'm done, I stick them in the recycling bin. (OK, now you know why I have
>that big pile of scrap paper that's printed on one side cluttering up my dining
>room.)
That's why the Dover coloring books are so great! I am RESISTING
buying a beautiful big Art Nouveau one because the next step would be
buying tons of color pens and pencils and the rest would be MADNESS
(very small apartment). For doodles I use Patternmaker, I just draw
with the mouse.
Alison
Dianne Lewandowski
other stuff and didn't want to look it up.
Someone mentioned a historical reference to "when a woman does it, it's
a craft, and when a man does it, it's art". That's the post I was going
to respond to - because that's not a fair analogy. At least by what
*little* I know.
Embroidery guilds were originally men. That's a few hundred years ago.
Only men got to embroider and design. But they were "craftsmen" - not
referred to as artists.
Dianne
Mavia Beaulieu
Tobie & Herb wrote:
>
> Hi Mary,
>
> I am a very good typist, played piano many years ago (and loved it) and
> stitch two-handed!
>
> Tobie
I'm a tone deaf, hunt and punch typest who stitches with two hands!
Hmmmmmm...is there any hope I might be an artist one day! :-)))
happy stitchin'
Mavia
Bess
> That's what I would like to know. If I have the pressure of having to
> produce [trumpets] ART to be able to consider what I do worthwhile, I
> might as well give up now,
Only if you are willing to let the anonymous "them" dictate what is
worthwhile. Even what we do that ends up in the garbage is "worthwhile"
because we've learned something from the mistakes made.
Best Stitches,
Bess
Newsletters and other pieces of information
http://www.geocities.com/bess_of_hardwick/news1.html
Bess' Photos
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/bess_of_hardwick
Current rotation: Jean Farish's America, Celtic Knot, Beary Christmas
Advent Calendar, Ann Trabue Sampler, Baby Afghan, assorted RRs
Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply
>I've wondered, though, if I may have been "intended" to be
>left-handed ... >I had one of those extremely
>old-fashioned first grade teachers who made everyone write with the
>right hand, though.
Same thing happened to my older and young sisters -- both are left handed.
They had teachers who tried to force them to write right handed. Didn't work
and my mom finally had to have a *discussion* with the teachers. I often
wonder about this myself. I am not truly ambidextrous but my older sister was
as a result of that teacher -- LOL. She wrote left handed but almost everything
else she could do with either hand. But I can do a lot of stuff with my left
hand that most "righties" can't manage. It would be interesting to see what
the trend is in families with both right & left handed members. CiaoMeow
Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply
>we've learned something from the mistakes made.
>
Not mistakes -- those are "learning experiences" or trial runs or something
similar :-))). For me, I use the term "big time obvious screw-up" 'cuz I
don't make mistakes I make MISTAKES!!! LOLOL CiaoMeow >^;;^<
Joyce in RSA
typing is two fingers only, one on each hand! Joyce in RSA.
Tia Mary-remove nekoluvr to reply <catwo...@aol.comnekoluvr> wrote in
article
Joyce in RSA
paper! LOL. Joyce in RSA.
Kim Brown <kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
<3AE5E69A...@ozemail.com.au>...
> Pat Porter wrote:
> >
> > Ah well, perhaps if she`d learned the piano first, she would have been
a
> > concert typist by now!
> >
> > Pat P.
>
> ...and could play Remington's Typewriter Concerto in A4 Major!
>
> --
> Trish {|:OI}
> Newcastle, NSW, Australia
>
geo...@yahoo.com
information. But I have a question. Why do we even need to justify our
needlework? As to the question of craftman or artist, I think we need to
look at the definitions. A craftsman is one who creates or performs with
skill or dexterity especially in the manual arts. A synonym is artisan. An
artist is one who is skilled in one of the fine arts. So the real question
should be whether needlework is a fine art. Since there are museums
dedicated to textiles and the courses you take in textiles are part of the
textile arts curriculum, in my mind fine needlework is indeed a fine art. I
think I put just as much skill into my needlework as I do into my drawings
or my photographs.
George
--
From Psalm 91 -
no evil shall befall you, no scourge come near your tent.
For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your
ways. On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your
foot against a stone.
Seanette Blaylock
Justifying Needlework":
>Can you even buy paint by number pictures these days?
Yep. I've seen them at just about any arts/crafts type place I've been
in lately.
RoseAnne
pictures though). I tried them out a few years ago, but the paint is cheap
and hard to apply I found, and the blue lines always showed through.
I'm probably just another in that list of people who can't do paint by
numbers though : )
--
RoseAnne
"Seanette Blaylock" <seanette.spam...@impulse.net> wrote in
message news:m4rdetsvhe5gq7tc4...@4ax.com...
G. Romilly Goodfellow
That's because in the U.S. it *isn't* the size of typing paper. :)
Standard A4 paper is 8.27 X 11.69 inches.
US typing paper is 8.5 X 11 inches.
Just *try* to file a standard UK letter in a standard US file folder.
OUCH!!!
But I like the Remington concerto idea. <grin>
--
G. Romilly Goodfellow
Golden Circle Designs
Cat fur? What Cat fur? That's creative use of specialty fibers!
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
Wesleyan University Press, [c 1943], 1961. but I am not sure which
Article exactly , But I Am sure it appears there in this book.
The Analogy is partly right , Annie Albers was one of the woman
answering the Call Of the Bauhas masters , to ne artistic values, But
when The women came , Gropius was horrified in a letter to Albert
Albers later Annie`s husband , He complains about those young women
and , they decided to open the weaving / textile depatment for those
Women ,,,,,, But alas those Wonderful women ,, opened for Us the world
of Fiberart , they pushed it beyond and above craft into Art .
mirjam
ps her articles are still relevant now !!!!