Why are needlepoint canvases painted?
Pamela A. Jones
I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
being in books?
things that make you go hmmmm....
Pamela
Sharon G
Pamela...simple answer...if handpainted needlepoint cnavases were not
handpainted, then they would not be hand painted needlepoint canvases.
Stamped needlepoint is much cheaper to purchase and in most cases is an
inferior product to stitch because you are usually faced with the
problem of having 3 or 4 colors indicated when you can only stitch
2..the registration is never right and lines that are meant to be
straight sometimes are not. Symetrical designs are never symetrical,
etc.
A well painted canvas is adjusted so that you can stitch in the proper
design detail to get the desired effect. A real person, not a machine or
a computer paints them. I have 18 copy artist who paint for me and each
one is an artist and paid well. I only had 1 person quit on me in 7
years and she was on the agenda to be asked to leave anyhow.
Some needlepoint *is* done from charts but there are stitchers who do
not want to stitch from a chart. And needlepointers do not necessarily
use all tent stitch on their canvases anymore. Needlepoint has changed
so much. A chart does not give you a unique design. If 2 stitchers
follow their the chart exactly, both pieces will be identical. In
handpainted needlepoint, this does not happen.
Why is all cross stitch not stamped? Again, you would have an x where
there is not insection of threads and you will have the little blue x
showing and a lopsided design.And the beauty of cross stitch is the wayt
he groiund fabric shows. It would not be the same if it were painted.
In summary the answer to your question...industry has crated the product
and the response from the stitching population has been
overwhelming.Supply and demand or demand and supply...with a touch of
tradidtion. It is how it is because the consumer wants it that way. That
is business.
Sharon G
LGUYNUP
Simplest answer is probably that a needlepointer who works from charts
stitches for different reasons than someone who stitches a painted
canvas. The stitcher who likes charts, probably likes the challenge.
(Otherwise, why would Maggie Lane have sold a zillion books.)
Those of us who work marked (painted) canvases find it relaxing. With a
painted canvas, you can sit with a friend or six friends, chat, watch your
kid play baseball or swim, refill everyone's glasses, and not lose your
place.
Why should a marked canvas be hand-painted? If you're stitching for
relaxation, you'll soon find that the better the quality of reproduction,
the more enjoyable. Years ago, Susan Treglown sold some designs to
Dimensions. They reproduced several of her really marvelous samplers. We
loved her perfectly counted canvases, sold lots, but 15 years ago, $80-100
seemed rather a lot for a canvas, so although we usually didn't buy kits,
we ordered a stack of hers which sold for about $45, and seemed an
incredible bargain. Packaging was gorgeous. Kits were gone in no time.
Even customers whose fingers had never touched interlock canvas bought
them. Immediately they began coming back (customers and kits). They were
reproduced via heat transfer, which can be fairly accurate, but were just
slightly askew on the canvas. One thread lower on the right side than the
left. Try stitching an alphabet that is a thread off. We called
Dimensions, who were very nice, but not sympathetic. They explained they
could only guarantee accuracy to two threads.
Other than geometrics, there are some perfectly acceptable heat transfer,
silk-screened, or (I don't like this to even cross my lips)
computer-printed canvases. None of these can be entirely accurate,
because good canvas (cotton mono) is not absolutely consistent and best
canvas (linen mono) is even more uneven. There are also painted canvases
that are about the same quality. The painting's a little sloppy; the
holes aren't blown out. The design is taken from wrapping paper or
greeting cards, then copied identically time after time.
A well-painted canvas is perfectly accurate. Colour changes are over
crossed threads, not one colour on a horizontal, another on a vertical,
and the first (or worst yet another colour, on the next horizontal. Even
subtle shading should be stitch-painted.
A few painters are wonderful illustrators who are able to produce nearly
frameable art, that is marvelous to stitch. Jane Aurich and her twin, Joy
Quarez are two designers who paint that way. Their work is particularly
wonderful because they change the designs slightly after a few are
produced. No two are really ever exactly alike.
Many needlepointers stitch to decorate their houses: pillows for the
sofa to match the curtains, a rug to pick up the colours in a painting.
Even though they start with a painted design, they can adapt the
designer's colours to make it work in their own house. If they choose not
to have it repainted to match their decorating scheme, they can adjust
every colour. Plenty of canvases leave shops with not a thread that
matches even vaguely what's on the canvas, but the hank of yarn is
sensational in the client's house. When the piece is done, it's a
collaboration between the stitcher and designer.
____
One last note--you asked why cross stitch isn't printed in books?
Sometime take a look at the Danish Handcraft Guild's wonderful little
books. I 'd love to do napkins and placemats, but I can't breathe and
count at the same time.
TOM_FREDERICK
Pamela A. Jones wrote:
>
> I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
> xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
> being in books?
>
> things that make you go hmmmm....
>
> Pamela
Some of these artists don't even do needlework. There are some NP
designers who do all charted. In a few weeks we hope to expand
our Web page to included all of the designs by our own Margaret Marie.
Margaret does all charted but includes various stitches(including XS).
Friendstitch
www.stitching.com/friendstitch/
Lula
Pamela A. Jones wrote:
>
> I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
> xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
> being in books?
>
> things that make you go hmmmm....
In printed material, one can make hundreds and thousands of copies of
the same thing as in books and leaflets.
Printed needlework is usually an automated mechanical means of
transferring a pattern to a piece of fabric or canvas.
Fabric and canvas rolling off a bolt does not come off in straight
lines---the printing apparatus does not make adjustments for this but
continues printing on whichever way the fabric/canvas is unrolled.
Some methods of printing are better than others like silk screening
where some adjustments can be made to register as close as possible to
thread grids. But virtually impossible to register well continuously, so
the stitcher will be faced with some irregularities to the pattern they
must adjust for while stitching.
Printing and heat transferring patterns allows designs to be made and
distributed at lesser costs because of volume and less handwork
involved. Mass marketing is their target.
There are minimum requirements for a printed run of a design--and a
limit on how many colors used by some printing methods.
Many people like the convenience and price of printed and silk screened
fabrics and needlepoint kits.
Generally they can stitch away without counting from charts.
Along the same principle of stitching without charts---hand painted
needlepoint is a specialized form of needlework---a niche market of its
own.
It is a much more unique needlework market and not mass marketed.
Many needlepointers like the specialized designs offered as well as the
customizing of the canvases for their own tastes and ideas--- through
ordering of custom designs and using specialty threads and stitches.
The beauty of needlepoint is---it can look perfectly beautiful from the
use of the simplest tent stitch to the use of ornate, decorative
stitching on the same design.
Of course the use of decorative stitching and types of threads will
often be determined by the design and end use of the needlepoint.
Many hand painted canvases come with stitch and thread guides for
stitchers to add their own touches usually custom designed by the
designer or by teachers in shop classes and seminars.
The fans of this form of needlework have favorite artists and designs
they like collecting.
The hand painted canvas market offers many more designs than any
needlework company can print because of high up front investment costs.
Hand painted canvases are easier to stitch because someone has taken the
trouble to paint everything in a more careful way than a machine.
The painted stitches are more accurately placed and some designs are
counted thread (stitch) painted.
In this day and age, hand painted needlepoint is somewhat of an
anachronism but a very much appreciated one by many stitchers who like
the idea of unique needlework.
Lula from Wooly Dreams Design
http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/
Barbara Joyce
> Pamela A. Jones wrote:
> >
> > I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
> > xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
> > being in books?
> >
> > things that make you go hmmmm....
> >
> > Pamela
<snip>
>
And needlepointers do not necessarily
> use all tent stitch on their canvases anymore. Needlepoint has changed
> so much. A chart does not give you a unique design. If 2 stitchers
> follow their the chart exactly, both pieces will be identical. In
> handpainted needlepoint, this does not happen.
>
<snip>
>
> Sharon G
Just to add an example to what Sharon has so eloquently explained, there
is/was an absolutely beautiful needlepoint Christmas stocking on display
at the Woodlawn show this year--a scene with dolls and toys. I believe
the stocking won a ribbon. I said to myself (primarily a stitcher on
linen, not canvas) that if I could ever find that design, I'd make one.
Well an hour later, one of my group located the same (hand-painted) canvas
at In Stitches, a nearby shop. I learned a great deal in the few moments
I looked at the canvas. The stitcher had taken the hand painted canvas,
and used it as a road map. She had selected all different kinds of
fibers, some silk, some wool, some metallic. She had done different areas
in different stitches. For example, the background, which was solid
green, was done in solid green, but in a beautiful textured stitch that
suggested vertical stripes, with wider diagonal areas between narrower
stitched areas. I realized (sadly) that I could never do justice to such
a beautiful canvas, and left it for someone else more skilled than I. :^(
Barbara,
who nevertheless has *plenty* of UFO's and USO's!
********************************************************
CAUTION: Dates on calendar are closer than they appear.
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That Funky Chick
>I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
>xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
>being in books?
[snip]
I've never done NP...I've seen painted cross stitch patterns, but I
don't like them (personally). The painted pattern often seems to show
up from under the stitches, and sometimes if you get a cheaply-done
one the pattern isn't lined up with the fabric properly and the rows
are crooked.
Oh look, there's a red-headed woodpecker visiting the breadcrumb dish
I keep on the patio! Oooh... oh, sorry, got distracted by my
wildlife...
-Bertha
ber...@mhn.org
I used to be disgusted. Now I'm just amused.
Larry Anderson & Diane Hare
> On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:41:07 -0800, "Pamela A. Jones"
> <jon...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>
> >I was just wondering why this is. Why aren't patterns used, as in
> >xstitch? Or, conversely why aren't xstitch mainly printed instead of in
> >being in books?
They're both counted thread techniques and they're both done both ways.
Some of the earliest printed books included designs for counted thread
work.
Even then it was too-difficult for some folk to follow charts and THEY
had people to paint the designs onto canvas for them, which was nice for
those who could afford it.
And custom designs were also put to canvas and cloth, with general
shading indicated. It was up to the person stitching to made individual
decisions on ALL the fine shading.
Many people who don't want to be bothered with such decision-making but
who still like fine shading prefer to work from modern charts, with
their assorted symbols.
And this related to "stamped work" too. In early usage the outlines
were drawn and the fillings and/or backgrounds were done by
counted-thread.
There's been a lot of modern "stamped work" printed on fabric, off-grain
as often as not, with charts to show which x-stitch should be done in
which shade. It was though "simpler" than doing it just from the chart
and counting threads ... it was, and it assured REPEAT sales ... buying
additional stamped goods for each additional copy.
Diane Hare/MS.HARE foxn...@goldrush.com San Andreas,CA snotmyfault
Marcie
Sharon G wrote:
> I have 18 copy artist who paint for me and each
> one is an artist and paid well.
Sharon,
Would you mind sharing what brand of paint you use? I would like to
translate some of my designs to canvas for stitching and am wondering
what the current wisdom is on the paint??
Marcie
LGUYNUP
Posted something last night, but it's not appeared on the board, and seems
to have disappeared from my computer. Several other people have covered
the fact that it's not possible to mechanically reproduce a design
absolutely stitch for thread, as is possible with a painted canvas..
This is what have I observed while peddling canvases for 20 years:
Needlepointers who work from charts and those who stitch painted canvases
are different groups. While all needlepoint is expensive, painted more
so, I don't think that the decision to use charts or painted canvases is
the primary reason a stitcher does one kind or the other. (Finishing is
also expensive. Someone who paid $10.00 for a piece of blank canvas and
$50.00 for yarn is just as likely to pay $200 for four yards of Brunschwig
fringe to put around a pillow, as is someone who paid $250 for the yarn
andcanvas.) It's a certain mind set that likes to work needlepoint from
charts. People who like problem solving tend to stitch from charts.
Dentists love charts. Teachers with really rotten classes. Accountants.
They all love charts..
Someone who can not waste a second, even while they're relaxing, does
painted canvases. You can sitch in grocery store lines or at stop lights.
You can watch tv, argue with your husband, watch your kid play baseball,
sit by the pool with a half dozen friends, keep their glasses full and
still stitch a well-painted canvas. It is thoroughly relaxing. How many
of those can you, read a chart and stitch
at the same time?
Admittedly there is a certain snobbism attached to needlepoint, and now
particularly to beautiful painted, expensive needlepoint canvases. For
many stitchers, it's a holdover from the days when ladies sat in their
parlours and stitched while their six in help did the chores.
There is a certain richness and durability to needlepoint that does not
exist in any of the other stitching areas that maybe justifies snobbiness.
You can have it painted exactly to match your room, or you can enhance
your room just by stitching with colours you like rather than exactly as
chosen by the designer.
For certain kinds of traditional decorating, needlepoint is essential,
and it takes a long time to stitch a pair of pillows for the club chairs.
If someone is going to spend several months working on something they'll
live with for years, it has to be really special. A hand painted canvas
can match the living room drapes or reflect the husband's interest in duck
hunting and still enhance the room, and it's not likely that someone else
will stitch something that look exactly like yours. With a little
creativity, the red roses will be almost rust, grass green leaves will be
several shades of celadon, and the beige background will match a funny
little squiggle in the persian rug. If you want to spend more, you can
take your fabric to a painter, have her adapt the drapery fabric for a
fireplace bench.
II've seen Christmas stockings where the pictured fireplace had the sames
objects hanging above as the stitcher's, or the fabric on Santa's chair
was the same fabric as in the stitcher's living room. My all time
favourite was the sweet customer who brought in one of her dishes, so that
the one inche diameter plate holding Santa's cookies would be just like
breakfast dishes, and the marvelous memento for a grandchild. Endless
personalization, and if you can't draw it yourself, which most of us can
not,a talented designer can.
There are also people who really are simply collectors of hand-painted
canvases. They'll never stitch them; they simply love them for the art
form that they are. If they're actually reproduced by the person whose
name is on the canvas, I suppose they're sort of like a signed litho.
(Or as one more optimisitic customer explained, "Hicks painted 30 or 40
Peaceable Kingdoms, who's to say that in 150 years, a copy of Deborah
Shappelle's Highland Piper, won't be a treasure?")
Lula
Yolanda wrote:
> <CUT>
> I also think a major reason why some canvases are hand painted is that
> the art of textile design/and printing needlepoint-is both lacking and
> costly!!!!
Hand painted canvas is a specific niche market and not a mass market
item as printed kits are.
We are targeting a different stitching market overall. As a
needlepointer myself, I buy what I like---either hand painted or printed
kits depending on design and quality of each.
To make a general and not a specific statement----not all kitting
companies print nice canvases or use top grade materials.
That's why hand painted canvases offer another alternative to
needlepointers.
>
> Here, in Ireland and England, with access to American magazines and
> now the internet, I can't believe the prices asked for "hand painted"
> work on net canvas that is both crude and done in loads of quite
> primary colours. 300 dollars can buy you an original oil or
> watercolour you look at, not cover with yarn.or, loads of canvas and
> whatever else you want for something 16 x 16 inches. The price for
> such quickly done work should be nominal.
There are different qualities of hand painted canvases in the market
place and it is up to the buyer to judge whether the canvas is worth the
price or not.
There are many beautifully hand painted canvases that cost a lot less
than $300 and canvases costing three times as much and more.
Pricing on a hand painted canvas is determined by many factors and
sometimes out of the control of the original designer/company.
Running a design company in the US is expensive. Doing business in a
high per capita income part of the world is costly.
If some of my canvases take me nine hours to paint---than I have to
charge accordingly. (So far, none of my canvases cost $300. retail as
far as I know in the shops I do business with.)
I charge for my skill and creativity as well as the expensive paints I
use among other business overhead.
Again, hand painted canvas has its own fans who collect designs by their
favorite artists and think nothing of paying for what they like.
It is a very specific niche market.
<cut>
> Yes, however, I do think one could make a completely beautiful, unique
> design of their own, using different stitches, fibers, etc---but then
> why buy an already "produced" canvas anyway?
Because hand painted design companies can offer many more unique designs
than can be printed.
As I mentioned earlier, the hand painted needlepoint canvas is a
different market from the needlepoint kit market.
I am not saying one is better than the other but each caters to their
own fans with much cross over stitching of both.
> I professionally paint and draw, but for textile design, my canvases
> are planned to the stitch and expertly printed. Are they perfect?
> Probably not, but they are beautiful complete needlepoint canvas,
> waiting for their stitcher, and the kits are supplied with enough yarn
> so that one does not have to follow the chart to the inth of their
> life, just have fun needlepointing.
Now this is the true essence of what it's all about in needlepointing
either a printed or hand painted canvas---the ease and relaxation of
needlepointing without referring to a graph.
Both forms of needlepointing are very portable and can be picked up and
put down with ease with no fear of losing one's place or chart.
BTW--Yolanda---I have taken a look at your web site and you offer some
very nice designs for needlepointers to choose from.
Lula from Wooly Dreams Design
http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/
> Yolanda
> I
> Art House Design
> 125 page on line catalog featuring secure shop cart shopping
> http://www.needlepointing.com
Sharon G
Yolanda,
Maybe you should attend a trade show in the US and see what the
handpainted canvas industry is all about. It is not all "garish primary
colors" and we in the US have a market which is very stable and well
developed. There is a vast difference between a printed canvas and a
painted canvas. I really feel you don't understand the US market. I can
tell you it is very strong here and Europe is missing out.
I must tell you, not to mention any names, but I was once contacted by a
large company in Wales who was very proud of their new business of
printing their own canvases and they urged me to try it out. Prior to
this, they had their transfers done here...only a few miles away from my
home. Proudly he presented me with a sample of his canvas printing that,
for lack of a better word, was a mess. I would not put my name on it
because it is not what my company considered quality. We just have a
different opinion of what quality is and is not.
Europeans need to have an open mind about painted canvases. We designers
are very proud of our hand paint industry...an industry that was created
many years before I started my company. There is a vast potential for
handpainted canvas in Europe...something my company is considering. I
already have some nice European accounts who do very well with my
canvases. As for the prices...I make a very fair profit and I do not use
sweat shop labor. All of my painters are very happy...18 of them. I only
had one quit in 7 year and she was scheduled to be cut off anyhow. The
price of any canvas is determined by it's production time. That is the
only way I can be fair to both my painters and the consumer.
I think you should consider looking into what our Amercan market has
with an open mind and study it. We *still* sell your type of product in
the states, but have also had the vision to take it a step further...to
handpaints.
Our next TNNA trade show...open to wholesalers only...is in late June.
If you want, I can have info sent to you and look forward to seeing you
there.
Sharon g
Victoria Yturralde
Hi there,
Anybody have a phone number or address for Tom Taylor designs? I think
the distributer is Fine Arts Heritage or something like that. He does
really bold and colorful animal designs with just a few colors--the
perfect stitching project for when you don't want to pay a whole lot of
attention. He does cats, penguins, cows, parrots, etc.
Thanks in advance!
Victoria Yturralde
The Kelpie
As the owner of an absurd number of Tom Taylor designs I have to agree on
their beauty and simplicity. Absolutely gorgeous. I just splurged on his
new White Tiger and the Buffalo Moon designs. The address is:
Fine Arts Graphics
398 Bryan Avenue
Eldora, CO 80466
(303) 258-7244
I think Tom Turkey, Rooster Rooster, and the Loon will probably be my next
stash additions.
Hope that helps,
Paula
Melinda Coss
>
> I must tell you, not to mention any names, but I was once contacted by a
> large company in Wales who was very proud of their new business of
> printing their own canvases and they urged me to try it out. Prior to
> this, they had their transfers done here...only a few miles away from my
> home. Proudly he presented me with a sample of his canvas printing that,
> for lack of a better word, was a mess. I would not put my name on it
> because it is not what my company considered quality. We just have a
> different opinion of what quality is and is not.
>
Sharon g
Can I butt in here and say that the printing operation run by the company
I believe you are referring to, very nearly put them out of business -
they should be grateful that printing was their secondary business and
stick to what they do best which is to package their products for the
gift market (sarcastic smirk). There are some very fine printers
in the UK. I haven't seen the initial message you are replying to here so
I am probably off beam but the problem we have in Europe with handpainted
canvases is the price. Our market accepts the mass market standard of
printed canvases and has become used to paying at least half the price of
a competitively priced handpainted canvas.
Melinda
Xstching
We just framed and hung his White Tiger (in a gold bamboo frame) in our
shop -- this one is so stunning!!! I'm such a fan too even though I've
yet to put a needle myself to one of his designs.
Deb
VINWALUF2
I just started my first one of these. It's the 'Orcas' pattern. I'm
actually doing it as a model for my local x-stitch shop. As I'm also
working on Ross Originals' 'Barn Owl', it's a nice change of pace (a
'palate cleanser', if you like! ;-))
As my usual tastes run towards TWs, Mirabilias & L&L, I was surprised at
how much I like these designs! Almost stylized in their relatively few
colors, but highly effective. I'm tempted to try one or two of these in
needlepoint, and maybe try out a few specialty stitches/fibers for changes
in texture.......
Best,
Melanie in Gainesville
postin on my employer's account...I can be reached at
m...@vetmed1.vetmed.ufl.edu