Mirabilia design
Darla
General Stitching forum. You can follow the link to the BB on the TW
website (www.twdesignworks.com) or go through EzBoard
(www.ezboard.com) or try http://p203.ezboard.com/bteresawentzler.
Anyway, the gist is that one of the Mira mermaids is a line-for-line
copy of a painting by Grimshaw. There are pictures posted in the
discussion.
Any people here also members of the Mira EzBoard? Any comments yet
from Nora?
Darla
Sacred cows make great hamburgers.
Picture Trail Gallery: www.picturetrail.com User Name: Condorita
www.sisquoc.blog-city.com
Get naked to respond.
Caryn
>General Stitching forum. You can follow the link to the BB on the TW
>website (www.twdesignworks.com) or go through EzBoard
>(www.ezboard.com) or try http://p203.ezboard.com/bteresawentzler.
>Anyway, the gist is that one of the Mira mermaids is a line-for-line
>copy of a painting by Grimshaw. There are pictures posted in the
>discussion.
>
>Any people here also members of the Mira EzBoard? Any comments yet
>from Nora?
>Darla
I got linked to that discussion in IM by a friend.
All I can say is WHOA!! It's too close to be coincidence.
I feel a bit betrayed, as I have bought both Deepest Love and it's mirror image
Queen Mermaid. I made Deepest Love for my middle DD, I'm glad it hangs in her
room so I don't have to see it and be reminded.
Caryn
Blue Wizard Designs
http://hometown.aol.com/crzy4xst/index.html
View WIPs at: http://community.webshots.com/user/carynlws (Caryn's UFO's)
Phouka
>
> I feel a bit betrayed, as I have bought both Deepest Love and it's mirror image
> Queen Mermaid. I made Deepest Love for my middle DD, I'm glad it hangs in her
> room so I don't have to see it and be reminded.
I did a quick check on google and it appears that the images in question
are in the public domain. While I would have preferred that Nora note
that the images were 'inspired by' or 'suggested by' the source
paintings, I guess it doesn't bother me much. Artists have taken
inspiration from so many sources, that there are similiarities isn't a
surprise. Has anyone heard anything from Mirabilia on this? I certainly
doubt it was done maliciously or accidentally (the images are, after
all, quite common).
-- Robin
Caryn
I felt betrayed because I rewarded what I thought was her own artistic
creativity only to find out she'd apparently copied the work of another.
There is a big difference between "common images" and two alledgely different
artworks matching line for line.
For instance....the image of a fairy sitting on a mushroom is a common
one...but TW's Woodland Faerie is (so far as I know!) a brand new twist on it.
Nobody is saying that Nora hasn't done a lot of really nice things all on her
own, but some of us are a bit disappointed that it seems that in this case she
borrowed heavily from another artist.
Yes, his work is public domain, and she broke no laws, but it would have seemed
more ethical if she had acknowledged her source of "inspiration."
Karen E.
> On 09 Dec 2004 02:32:09 GMT, crzy...@aol.combwd (Caryn) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I felt betrayed because I rewarded what I thought was her own artistic
>>creativity only to find out she'd apparently copied the work of another.
> But did you stitch it because you liked it??? If you had known it was
> a pattern of an art work would you have not liked it???
> Ruby
I think I understand Caryn's complaint here. Mirabilia designs are not
inexpensive. I can see where paying that price for what you perceive to
be an _original_ work by a designer only to find that it was highly
derivative of another artist's work would be disappointing at best. If
the chart had a note that it was a derivative work, that's another
kettle of fish because then the purchaser is aware of the situation.
Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, I think Caryn's complaint
is justified. (Assuming that I've interpreted her thoughts correctly. If
I'm mistaken, please blame me, not Caryn.)
Karen E.
--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Cheryl Isaak
<fishn...@kcnet.com> wrote:
I have to chime in - years and years ago, I bought In My Ladies Garden and
at a time I couldn't afford the price of the chart (smart owner had me
convinced it was an OOP). Love it - still haven't stitched it, but ;) we
all know that story).
About year or so ago, while looking through my art history text to show DS
something, I spotted an Asian pen and ink - dang close to the same thing
picture in the essential composition and scale.
Now - I can not be sure Mirablilia has seen this picture and if she did, she
was consciously or unconsciously influenced by it.
Cheryl
Caryn
>a pattern of an art work would you have not liked it???
>Ruby
Well......actually.......
I bought it and stitched it because my middle daughter picked it on an occasion
when I forced her to come to the LNS with me!
ROFL
I bought the Queen Mermaid with the idea of eventually making her that one too,
so she'd have them as a set.
The things we do for our kids!
Mermaids are nice, but I prefer Fairies and Dragons!
Caryn
>something, I spotted an Asian pen and ink - dang close to the same thing
>picture in the essential composition and scale.
>
>Now - I can not be sure Mirablilia has seen this picture and if she did, she
>was consciously or unconsciously influenced by it.
>
>Cheryl
>
>
>
I think Nora has a degree in Art, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember this
being the case.
That would have required more than a little Art History, and it's very likely
she saw the same artwork in your daughter's text book.
I didn't major in Art, but used up some electives on Art History I & II. I
loved learning how Art developed over time, but I'll confess I still get some
of my "isms" confused in modern art! lol
Caryn
>inexpensive. I can see where paying that price for what you perceive to
>be an _original_ work by a designer only to find that it was highly
>derivative of another artist's work would be disappointing at best. If
>the chart had a note that it was a derivative work, that's another
>kettle of fish because then the purchaser is aware of the situation.
>Since that doesn't seem to be the case here, I think Caryn's complaint
>is justified. (Assuming that I've interpreted her thoughts correctly. If
>I'm mistaken, please blame me, not Caryn.)
>
>
>Karen E.
>--
Karen,
You did understand me correctly.
Mostly it's just sad to see a well respected designer might not be all we
thought.
Cheryl Isaak
"Caryn" <crzy...@aol.combwd> wrote:
>> About year or so ago, while looking through my art history text to show DS
>> something, I spotted an Asian pen and ink - dang close to the same thing
>> picture in the essential composition and scale.
>>
>> Now - I can not be sure Mirablilia has seen this picture and if she did, she
>> was consciously or unconsciously influenced by it.
>>
>> Cheryl
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think Nora has a degree in Art, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember
> this
> being the case.
>
> That would have required more than a little Art History, and it's very likely
> she saw the same artwork in your daughter's text book.
Actually my college text (and a book I recommend for anyone!)
>
> I didn't major in Art, but used up some electives on Art History I & II. I
> loved learning how Art developed over time, but I'll confess I still get some
> of my "isms" confused in modern art! lol
>
Heck - I gave up trying to "understand" modern art!
Cheryl
Caryn
>> of my "isms" confused in modern art! lol
>>
>Heck - I gave up trying to "understand" modern art!
>
>Cheryl
>
I never really "understood" it, but I did used to be able to tell one "ism"
from another, now I get lost once you get past Impressionism! lol
I do like Impressionism, but some of the other "isms" totally lose me!
Cheryl Isaak
"Caryn" <crzy...@aol.combwd> wrote:
I just gave up trying to remember the differences - especially the paint
blobs! But I did love Mondrian.
Cheryl
Caryn
>I just gave up trying to remember the differences - especially the paint
>blobs! But I did love Mondrian.
>
>Cheryl
lol
I once knit Dude a sweater that reminded of a Mondrian painting. Big blocks of
primary colors separated by thin black lines.
Cheryl Isaak
20041209110134...@mb-m03.aol.com, "Caryn" <crzy...@aol.combwd>
wrote:
>>
>> I just gave up trying to remember the differences - especially the paint
>> blobs! But I did love Mondrian.
>>
>> Cheryl
>
> lol
>
> I once knit Dude a sweater that reminded of a Mondrian painting. Big blocks
> of
> primary colors separated by thin black lines.
>
I always thought it would be a great inspiration for a cross stitch or free
style piece. I have this spot that screams for stained glass window when
we built but couldn't swing it. Something Prairie Style or Mondrian-ish and
huge!
Cheryl
Karen C - California
<chery...@adelphia.net> writes:
>I have this spot that screams for stained glass window when
>we built but couldn't swing it.
Hie thee to Michaels. Pick up a Gallery Glass kit. For under $20, I was able
to create a stained glass window in my living room. You can buy the paints
separately, or in a kit with a tube of "leading". After 7 years, the paint has
started to fade, and I haven't felt up to putting on a second coat, but when it
was fresh and brilliant it really did look like the real thing.
I also frosted some of the panes in my front door, and -- as one housecleaner
freaked out to discover -- it comes off with just a wipe of Windex. So, you
can change your mind or change your color scheme any time you want!
I haven't tried to remove the "leading" from the big window, but supposedly
that also comes off with soap and water.
--
Finished 12/8/04 -- Army bear ornament
WIP: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn, Calif Sampler,
Holiday Snowglobe
Paralegal - Writer - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/KMC.html
Cheryl Isaak
"Karen C - California" <kmc...@aol.com.LuvXS> wrote:
> In article <BDDDE2EF.42E6E%chery...@adelphia.net>, Cheryl Isaak
> <chery...@adelphia.net> writes:
>
>> I have this spot that screams for stained glass window when
>> we built but couldn't swing it.
>
> Hie thee to Michaels. Pick up a Gallery Glass kit. For under $20, I was able
> to create a stained glass window in my living room. You can buy the paints
> separately, or in a kit with a tube of "leading". After 7 years, the paint
> has
> started to fade, and I haven't felt up to putting on a second coat, but when
> it
> was fresh and brilliant it really did look like the real thing.
>
> I also frosted some of the panes in my front door, and -- as one housecleaner
> freaked out to discover -- it comes off with just a wipe of Windex. So, you
> can change your mind or change your color scheme any time you want!
>
> I haven't tried to remove the "leading" from the big window, but supposedly
> that also comes off with soap and water.
Sadly, there is no window there! The extra engineering for a window in that
spot (we have a modified post and beam) was prohibitive as it would have
changed the roof lines and the position of a major load carrying beam. There
is a lovely expanse of wall above the window we could (and had to, by code)
put in. So something large scale and dramatic would be lovely.
BUT - I have wanted to try those "stained" glass kits on a mirror or a old
window as a piece of "art".
Cheryl
DanielleHallOH
think that Nora consciously or unconsciously styled her design after the
Grimshaw image. It's very possible that they're just two very similar images
of female forms in a very very similar position - or perhaps they're *both*
styled after another female figure elsewhere in the art world!
Kay Lancaster
quite interesting with colored mirror there. Or build a window there, lit
from behind with fluorescent lights, if you've got power to that area.
Take a look at some of the opal glasses especially for glass that looks
good even when not backlit. I ran into one sheet of opal glass... white
with blue and green swirls... that I'd have been willing to frame and hang
on the wall "as is". If that sounds at all interesting, here are a couple
of manufacturers:
http://www.kog.com/Samples/Opal/Opal.html
http://www.uroboros.com/search.php/cat=Art+Glass/subcat=Fracture+Streamer
http://www.youghioghenyglass.com/stainedglass/stippleglass2.htm
http://www.spectrumglass.com/Pages/SilverCoatUse.html
Kay, who's made a few stained glass frames for needlework... nothing like
gilding the lily <g>
Cheryl Isaak
Lancaster" <k...@hub.fern.com> wrote:
Kay!
I would love to have the time/money/room (in no particular order) to try my
hand at stained glass. There is a shop near me that offers classes and I've
hinted strongly in the past that I'd love those classes as gift.
I have this vision of something in Prairie/Mission Style colors a la
Mondrian.
Cheryl
Karen C - California
writes:
>No window needn't be an issue with stained glass, as you could do something
>quite interesting with colored mirror there.
Repeat my suggestion about Gallery Glass. Replace "paint on window" to "paint
on mirror".
Darla
wrote:
Did you look all the way through all the images? Including the one
where the discussion's generator merged the Mira mermaid onto the
Grimshaw canvas for a perfect line-for-line match? Or did you somehow
manage to miss that picture?
Caryn
>On 09 Dec 2004 23:39:24 GMT, daniell...@aol.com (DanielleHallOH)
>wrote:
>
>>I don't know. I can see that they're very similar, but I don't necessarily
>>think that Nora consciously or unconsciously styled her design after the
>>Grimshaw image. It's very possible that they're just two very similar
>images
>>of female forms in a very very similar position - or perhaps they're *both*
>>styled after another female figure elsewhere in the art world!
>Did you look all the way through all the images? Including the one
>where the discussion's generator merged the Mira mermaid onto the
>Grimshaw canvas for a perfect line-for-line match? Or did you somehow
>manage to miss that picture?
>Darla
Given the responses both here and on the TWBB it seems a lot of people want to
believe it's all a big coincidence.
I could almost buy that, except for the tiny details that are the same....the
hands and fingers...the pearls in the hair...the way the veil swirls around the
torso.
All of those are too close for it to be a mere coincidence, at least in my
mind.
Nora did nothing illegal here, but I know I am disappointed that she took full
credit for what seems to be the melding of two artists' efforts.
JMHO,
Kay Lancaster
> hand at stained glass. There is a shop near me that offers classes and I've
> hinted strongly in the past that I'd love those classes as gift.
Might check into the local adult ed classes, too... quite often available.
> I have this vision of something in Prairie/Mission Style colors a la
> Mondrian.
That's actually a fairly do-able project for a beginner, except for
size... anything over about 2 ft has to have some reinforcing to keep
the joints from sagging over time. There are some newer products out
now to reinforce panels, but given the straight lines of your proposed
designs, you could use older methods fairly easily (and cheaply!).
The basic tools for working with stained glass aren't all that big
an investment, though more expensive tools will save you time (a
powered edge grinder instead of rounding the edges by hand, for instance).
In some ways, it's sort of like embroidery... you can do wonderful
hand embroidery with simple tools, but it's going to take more time
than if you used an embroidery machine. <g>
Room isn't particularly an issue.. you need a table big enough to
hold the finished piece, and you can use the same space for cutting --
so for most projects, a 2x3 ft table is plenty. If you need bigger,
you can always clamp a sheet of plywood to your little table.
Glass is probably your biggest expense, especially the art glass
that I gave you the URLs for. Basic solid colors aren't nearly
the cost. And glass prices tend to be fairly closely tied to oil
prices because of the heat required to make it, and the shipping
required to move it. But, oh!, glass can be glorious stuff!
Kay
ChibiBirdy
Can you by any chance tell us the title of that Asian pen and ink
painting? If not, can you try to remember who painted it or what book
it was in?
Thanks!
Chibi
Cheryl Isaak
1102721647.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "ChibiBirdy"
<moon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
All I can be sure of is that was in my Jansen History of Art, circa
1980-ish. Unfortunately, I packed it (and a whole slew) of other books away
to "un clutter" an area.
Cheryl
Cheryl Isaak
1102721647.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "ChibiBirdy"
<moon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh and that type of "farming scene" was very popular in a lot of the Asian
art.
Cheryl
DanielleHallOH
>where the discussion's generator merged the Mira mermaid onto the
>Grimshaw canvas for a perfect line-for-line match? Or did you somehow
>manage to miss that picture?
I did see it - but it still doesn't convince me. There are only so many poses
that the human form can be depicted in - standing, sitting, leaning this way or
that - it's not at all unlikely to me that two artists could have depicted very
similar figures in very similar poses at least once in the entire history of
art.
Mira
"DanielleHallOH" <daniell...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041210193526...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> >Did you look all the way through all the images? Including the one
>>where the discussion's generator merged the Mira mermaid onto the
>>Grimshaw canvas for a perfect line-for-line match? Or did you somehow
>>manage to miss that picture?
I've veen trying to check this discussion at the TWBB but cannot find this
particular topic. I went to General Stitching forum and did check up to
their 20 pages but I never found it. What is the title of the topic? what
topic title is this Mira mermaid that the moderator merged with the
Grimshaw canvas? I'm really curious and wanted to see it myself.
Thanks,
Mira
NYC Chicka
particular topic. I went to General Stitching forum and did check up to
their 20 pages but I never found it. What is the title of the topic? what
topic title is this Mira mermaid that the moderator merged with the
Grimshaw canvas? I'm really curious and wanted to see it myself.
Thanks,
Mira>>
Mira,
Make sure you're looking in the General Stitching forum in the top section and
not the General Stitchalong forum in the second section. =) (I made that
mistake at first.)
The title of the thread had Grimshaw somewhere in the title so you could pick
it out. (Unless they've deleted it since this morning.)
Wendy
Jenn Liace
wrote:
> I've veen trying to check this discussion at the TWBB but cannot find this
>particular topic. I went to General Stitching forum and did check up to
>their 20 pages but I never found it. What is the title of the topic? what
>topic title is this Mira mermaid that the moderator merged with the
>Grimshaw canvas? I'm really curious and wanted to see it myself.
>Thanks,
http://p203.ezboard.com/fteresawentzlergeneralcrossstitch.showMessage?topicID=21558.topic
That should take you right to the beginning of the discussion.
Jenn L.
--
http://community.webshots.com/user/jaliace
Current projects:
Christmas Carnations (Threads Through Time)
Nordic Needle Rose (Silver Lining)
Starry Night (Vincent van Gogh via Cross Stitch Collectibles)
Lady of the Flag (Mirabilia)
Ruthie
has both pictures.
speaking objectively:
The overall pose is almost identical, but I find several small
differences. The face of the Fairy is turned further away, and the body
of the Mirabilia, below the navel, is longer and slimmer. The hair
differs from one to the other; the ear shape is different; the drapery
is completely different.
I don't see how a "line by line" comparison is identical. When I looked
up the pictures, I was expecting to see a near-exact copy. No such thing.
If M did, in fact, copy the pose, I believe she has changed the design
enough to evade copyright violation.
I would rather believe that she unconsciously reproduced the pose. It's
not uncommon for an artist to unwittingly "quote" another work. The
first Bull Terrier Christmas ornie I designed turned out to be a
near-exact copy of one of Mary Jung's Christmas cards! And I had taken
the Bullie from one of my own photos, and stuck a candy cane in his mouth.
Which makes me agree with Danielle when she says, "There are only so
many poses
that the human form can be depicted in - standing, sitting, leaning this
way or
that - it's not at all unlikely to me that two artists could have
depicted very
similar figures in very similar poses at least once in the entire history of
art."
Ruthie in Colorado
alowan'earthlink'net
--
邢 唷��
Cheryl Isaak
Lancaster" <k...@hub.fern.com> wrote:
>> I would love to have the time/money/room (in no particular order) to try my
>> hand at stained glass. There is a shop near me that offers classes and I've
>> hinted strongly in the past that I'd love those classes as gift.
>
> Might check into the local adult ed classes, too... quite often available.
>
>> I have this vision of something in Prairie/Mission Style colors a la
>> Mondrian.
>
> That's actually a fairly do-able project for a beginner, except for
> size... anything over about 2 ft has to have some reinforcing to keep
> the joints from sagging over time. There are some newer products out
> now to reinforce panels, but given the straight lines of your proposed
> designs, you could use older methods fairly easily (and cheaply!).
You enabler you - some day when the kids are older, I'm going to give it a
try!
>
> Glass is probably your biggest expense, especially the art glass
> that I gave you the URLs for. Basic solid colors aren't nearly
> the cost. And glass prices tend to be fairly closely tied to oil
> prices because of the heat required to make it, and the shipping
> required to move it. But, oh!, glass can be glorious stuff!
>
There is a nice stained glass store near me....
What I really, really want to try some day (in order), blowing glass,
lampworking, using millifiore canes....
There is a class out in the Berkshires to make a glass paperweight - some
day!
Cherl
Allura nee Gwendolyn nee Veren
motifs, colors, dress, etc are not. The thing I noticed for both, though,
is that I like the original design very much, and I still like the stitched
design. They're different media. I wouldn't mind BOTH, actually (well, I'm
not a mermaid fan, but other then that). It would have been nice to see a
credit, but not essential. Legally, she definately does NOT have to mention
it. There's enough changes, that I'm not even sure if it's an "ethical"
requirement.
And this comes from someone who's not a huge MLI fan normally (although I'm
a big Nora Corbett fan, ironically), btw.
Joanna
--
WIP: Celtic Christmas, Mackintosh Rose
Stitcher living in NJ? Join the NJNeedleworkers:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NJNeedleworkers/
Blog: http://allura.blogdrive.com
"Thought maps existence; fantasy colors it." -Mason Cooley
Caryn
>motifs, colors, dress, etc are not. The thing I noticed for both, though,
>is that I like the original design very much, and I still like the stitched
>design. They're different media. I wouldn't mind BOTH, actually (well, I'm
>not a mermaid fan, but other then that). It would have been nice to see a
>credit, but not essential. Legally, she definately does NOT have to mention
>it. There's enough changes, that I'm not even sure if it's an "ethical"
>requirement.
>
>And this comes from someone who's not a huge MLI fan normally (although I'm
>a big Nora Corbett fan, ironically), btw.
>
>Joanna
>--
Since we are talking about a design from Nora, can I ask what MLI has to do
with anything? Other than their blood relationship, I am not seeing why she
came into this.
I like Deepest Love, wasn't terribly put out when DD#2 asked me to stitch it
for her room, but I am a bit disappointed that Nora didn't acknowledge that the
work of another artist was her "inspiration."
I have lost some of the respect I had for Nora, and that makes me very sad.