OT: respect for fallen vets
Don Foreman
a military funeral, but there was an American Legion honor guard at
the cemetary. John had been an active Legionaire. It was a bit
raggedy, but done by volunteers with the best of respectful intents on
a winter Saturday.
It reminded me of an experience I've never forgotten:
---
I once was assigned to run a military graveside ceremony while on
active duty. This was a week after my Dad's funeral. I asked the
Captain if one of the other officers could maybe take this one since I
was still grieving myself. I don't recall what his response was to
quote it, but the essence was: suck it up and get it done,
Loooootenit. The assignment had come down from Battalion and
probably started above that level, maybe considerably above since the
deceased was a decorated career soldier and NCO.
Had my mission assignment. I didn't have to like it but I did have
to do it. I could find no regulations or guides for such a ceremony
so I had to wing it. Kuh-lick, that's why the Captain dumped this
one on me: can't do it by the book if there is no book, and I was
better at improv than book anyway so it was Captain's revenge,
Loooooootenit. The Captain was a pure-D asshole.
I selected 4 or 5 of the sharpest troops in the company, we pooled
what little we knew about how such things are done, kinda devised a
ceremony and drill that seemed right and then we developed and
rehearsed it several times. In our version, there were no spoken
commands at all, just my subtle hand signals at a couple of start
points. My idea (in 1965) was a modest small-team version of one
hatched much later at Annapolis in 1990
http://www.usna.edu/DrillTeam/site/index.htm
but we put it together in an hour or two each of 3 days. But then,
we weren't exactly snot-nosed fuzzy-cheeked kaydets. We were sojers.
When the M-14 rifles fired their blanks in salute volleys, it was as
one crack each volley rather than the usual ragged rip. Those
motivated, impeccably turned-out soldiers were sharp. When they
came to rifle salute for the folding of the flag it was in flawless
unison with snap -- again with no spoken command, all that was heard
was the quiet sound of hard hands slapping stocks in perfect unison.
The theme we were striving to convey was dignity and respect. It
was really cool with crack drill team precision. Oh, and I'd found
a GI who could play taps on a bugle, or trumpet, or coronet, or
whatever he used and he played it superbly. It was haunting and
beautiful with the last note fading to silence ever so slowly and
sweetly.
When I presented the folded flag to the widow she thanked me and
tearfully said it was the most beautiful ceremony she had ever seen.
I'll bet she'd seen her share of them as wife of a career soldier.
That was all the feedback I cared about. I passed that along to the
men and they seemed pleased and proud to hear it. Never heard a
word about it from the Captain. No news was good news most days.
Donwill
Don
Buerste
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:b9n1o51h8ca6e54i8...@4ax.com...
You are a man of fine mettle!
kfvo...@gmail.com
> but we put it together in an hour or two each of 3 days. But then,
> we weren't exactly snot-nosed fuzzy-cheeked kaydets. We were sojers.
> When the M-14 rifles fired their blanks in salute volleys, it was as
> one crack each volley rather than the usual ragged rip. Those
> motivated, impeccably turned-out soldiers were sharp. When they
> came to rifle salute for the folding of the flag it was in flawless
> unison with snap -- again with no spoken command, all that was heard
> was the quiet sound of hard hands slapping stocks in perfect unison.
> The theme we were striving to convey was dignity and respect. It
> was really cool with crack drill team precision. Oh, and I'd found
> a GI who could play taps on a bugle, or trumpet, or coronet, or
> whatever he used and he played it superbly. It was haunting and
> beautiful with the last note fading to silence ever so slowly and
> sweetly.
>
> When I presented the folded flag to the widow she thanked me and
> tearfully said it was the most beautiful ceremony she had ever seen.
> I'll bet she'd seen her share of them as wife of a career soldier.
>
> That was all the feedback I cared about. I passed that along to the
> men and they seemed pleased and proud to hear it. Never heard a
> word about it from the Captain. No news was good news most days.
You might find these interesting:
http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/
http://operationtaps.org/Index.html
Snag
Moving story , thanks Don . When Dad died , I kept my shit together until
the CO of the local reserve artillery unit (HS classmate) handed me and my
brothers each a polished case that was used in the salute . I still lose it
when I think about that .
--
Snag
Robert Swinney
Bob Swinney
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:b9n1o51h8ca6e54i8...@4ax.com...
Jon Anderson
for the job. Though never in the military myself, I find the dignity and
precision of a well executed ceremony very moving.
Too bad all our vets aren't treated with the same respect you and your
men showed.
Jon
cavelamb
I've been to too many myself.
I have a friend, Canadian, who just returned from Afganistan.
She sent me this link just this morning...
If I die before you wake...
http://www.andiesisle.com/ifidiebeforeyouwake.html
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
cavelamb
By Rush Limbaugh:
I think the vast differences in compensation between victims
of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving our
country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking
about it either, because you just don't criticize anything
having to do with September 11.
Well, I can't let the numbers pass by because it says
something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality
of this country. If you lost a family member in the September
11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000.
The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up
to $4.7 million..
If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier
killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct
death benefit, half of which is taxable.
Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the
surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry.
And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child
under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to
a screeching halt.
Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an
average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are
complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic,
but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the
wrong time.
Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and
they and their families know the dangers.. (Actually,
soldiers are put in harms way by politicians and commanding
officers.)
We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims
from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization
asking for the same deal that the September 11 families
are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of
those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation
as well.
You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part
and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this
country. It's just really sad. Every time a pay raise comes
up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing
of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the
Middle East while their families have to survive on food
stamps and live in low-rent housing. Make sense?
However, our own US Congress voted themselves a raise. Many
of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one
time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per
month. And most are now equal to being millionaires plus.
They do not receive Social Security on retirement because
they didn't have to pay into the system. If some of the
military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an
E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and
the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a
pension of $15,000 per month.
I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon
and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and
lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are
now fighting.
Wes
>We attended a funeral today. Good friend's dad, who was a vet. Not
>a military funeral, but there was an American Legion honor guard at
>the cemetary. John had been an active Legionaire. It was a bit
>raggedy, but done by volunteers with the best of respectful intents on
>a winter Saturday.
Thanks for sharing your story. The respect is what matters.
Thank you for serving,
Wes
Too_Many_Tools
> but we put it together in an hour or two each of 3 days. But then,
> we weren't exactly snot-nosed fuzzy-cheeked kaydets. We were sojers.
> When the M-14 rifles fired their blanks in salute volleys, it was as
> one crack each volley rather than the usual ragged rip. Those
> motivated, impeccably turned-out soldiers were sharp. When they
> came to rifle salute for the folding of the flag it was in flawless
> unison with snap -- again with no spoken command, all that was heard
> was the quiet sound of hard hands slapping stocks in perfect unison.
> The theme we were striving to convey was dignity and respect. It
> was really cool with crack drill team precision. Oh, and I'd found
> a GI who could play taps on a bugle, or trumpet, or coronet, or
> whatever he used and he played it superbly. It was haunting and
> beautiful with the last note fading to silence ever so slowly and
> sweetly.
>
> When I presented the folded flag to the widow she thanked me and
> tearfully said it was the most beautiful ceremony she had ever seen.
> I'll bet she'd seen her share of them as wife of a career soldier.
>
> That was all the feedback I cared about. I passed that along to the
> men and they seemed pleased and proud to hear it. Never heard a
> word about it from the Captain. No news was good news most days.
The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
is to work for peace.
Wars kill people.
A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
TMT
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
> is to work for peace.
If you want peace, work to end envy.
Don Foreman
wrote:
Funny you should mention that. I have a handful of .30-06 shell
casings (the Legionaires used M-1's) in my brass-polishing tumbler
running right now for my friend and her family. The lead Legionaire
had policed up the brass and quietly offered it to her, I told her I'd
be happy to polish them if she'd like. After consulting with other
family members, they decided that they'd like that. Done deal.
Tom Dacon
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:b9n1o51h8ca6e54i8...@4ax.com...
Good on you.
Tom Dacon
Don Foreman
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
>is to work for peace.
>
>Wars kill people.
>
>A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
>
>TMT
None of us? Veterans know that war kills people. It's not an
abstraction or fodder for rhetoric for vets. Some of the people
killed were buddies and teammates.
Peace is far more preferable to war than anyone who has not waged war
can comprehend.
But tyrants and governments out of control also kill people, e.g. the
holocaust. Our freedom was won by a revolutionary war, and
unfortunately it must be occasionally defended by war, or clear
willingness and ability to successfully wage war, against agressors.
Our elected leaders, politicians, decide when to wage war. Pols of
both parties have abused that like they've abused almost everything
and everyone in the past few decades. That's our system. It has
worked well in the past but not since 'Nam. I think the problem is
that Americans became complacent after WW II and the great depression.
The generation that prospered after the depression and WW II is now
departing or gone and the following generations they spoiled hoping to
give them a better life have created a culture of perceived
entitlement, and acceptance and even boastful celebration of greed.
The challenge we have before us is to find and elect good leaders
regardless of party who will actually function as leaders for the good
of the realm and the people of the realm, while maintaining sufficient
strength to defend us against aggressors with such military action as
may be required.
cavelamb
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:28:58 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
>> is to work for peace.
>>
>> Wars kill people.
>>
>> A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
>>
>> TMT
>
> None of us? Veterans know that war kills people. It's not an
> abstraction or fodder for rhetoric for vets. Some of the people
> killed were buddies and teammates.
>
> Peace is far more preferable to war than anyone who has not waged war
> can comprehend.
>
Besides, for warriors, it's the only game worth playing.
Don Foreman
wrote:
Well ya, there is that. <G>
Jim Wilkins
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:20:26 -0600, cavelamb <cavel...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> Peace is far more preferable to war than anyone who has not waged war
> >> can comprehend.
>
> >Besides, for warriors, it's the only game worth playing.
>
That's why the Constitution puts an elected civilian at the head of
the military. Fires are the only game for firemen, crimes for
policemen and illness for doctors. We need them but we can't have them
stirring up work for themselves either.
Former General Eisenhower worked very hard to keep the peace by
containing the threats. He cut the ground forces to the bone and sent
the U-2 over Russia to disprove the bomber gap allegation his generals
were using to boost spending. Khrushchev, who had been through the
horrible battle of Stalingrad, had the same problem with his "metal
eaters":
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,870800-3,00.html
Don't ever forget that Kennedy, Johnson and the Democrats bear the
blame for Vietnam. Ike kept the US presence there so limited and
covert that you have to know the veterans involved to hear about it.
The recipe for world peace is simple, everyone must follow orders and
be satisfied with no more than they actually need, IOW learn to live
like a soldier. Strive for that, sucker, be an example yourself.
jsw
Lewis Hartswick
> The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
> is to work for peace.
>
> Wars kill people.
>
> A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
>
> TMT
Just turn the other cheek. :-(
...lew...
Lewis Hartswick
> The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
> is to work for peace.
>
> Wars kill people.
>
> A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
>
> TMT
Those that beat their swords into plowshares will be
farming for those that do not.
...lew...
Steve B
>>The greatest thing anyone can do for respect for those who have served
>>is to work for peace.
>>
>>Wars kill people.
>>
>>A simple fact none of us have figured out yet.
>>
>>TMT
Please do me a great favor. NEVER EVER refer to "us" in your future
writings. It assumes that you and I are somehow in the same group and share
the same philosophies. You do not think or speak for me. Any time you do,
you have my permission to shoot me.
HTH, but I doubt it.
RBnDFW
Good job Don.
I buried Dad last New years Eve, with military honors. He was a D-Day
veteran and retired Air Force NCO
It was bitterly cold, and those young Air Force enlisted men were
shivering in their uniforms.
But they performed flawlessly, and all were moved by the service.
Thank you for your service to our country, and to our deceased veterans
Too_Many_Tools
One that hasn't figured it out yet.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
While I have great respect for those who have served, I have always
considered the ceremonial stuff to be for the living..not the dead.
It is meant to reinforce the values of the military.
I have asked that it not be done for my funeral when the time comes.
Instead I have requested those who would particpate to donate the time
and money to charitable causes in the cause of peace.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Don Foreman
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>While I have great respect for those who have served, I have always
>considered the ceremonial stuff to be for the living..not the dead.
It is. The dead don't care, but survivors who loved them do.
>
>It is meant to reinforce the values of the military.
It is meant to pay homage to the values of duty, honor,country,
discipline, bravery, respect and dignity held and practiced by the
decedent who was loved and will be missed.
>
>I have asked that it not be done for my funeral when the time comes.
I think you're safe. You've just asserted that whatever is done would
be for the living, not for you. They'll do whatever they want. Maybe
they'll celebrate your life by barraging newsgroups with smutty
adolescent insults and trolls. Perhaps they'll party hearty and take
turns urinating on your grave if that's what works for them.
>
>Instead I have requested those who would particpate to donate the time
>and money to charitable causes in the cause of peace.
Ah! Have your survivors sell tickets on RCM to peace on your grave,
proceeds to go to the peace-proactive charity of their choice. You
have dissed and antagonized enough usenet readers to make that a
lucrative enterprise. For those who can't attend, there could be
proxy piddlers who peace for pledges.
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:06:31 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I have asked that it not be done for my funeral when the time comes.
>
>I think you're safe.
That's gotta be the understatement of the year so far, Don. Why are
you guys even talking with this trollbot, anyway?
>You've just asserted that whatever is done would
>be for the living, not for you. They'll do whatever they want. Maybe
>they'll celebrate your life by barraging newsgroups with smutty
>adolescent insults and trolls. Perhaps they'll party hearty and take
>turns urinating on your grave if that's what works for them.
Works for me.
>>Instead I have requested those who would particpate to donate the time
>>and money to charitable causes in the cause of peace.
>
>Ah! Have your survivors sell tickets on RCM to peace on your grave,
>proceeds to go to the peace-proactive charity of their choice. You
>have dissed and antagonized enough usenet readers to make that a
>lucrative enterprise. For those who can't attend, there could be
>proxy piddlers who peace for pledges.
So plonk him already.
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it
exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong
remedy." -- Ernest Benn
Wes
>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:06:31 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
><too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>While I have great respect for those who have served, I have always
>>considered the ceremonial stuff to be for the living..not the dead.
>
>It is. The dead don't care, but survivors who loved them do.
I'm going to jump in here. I served in peace time, yup, 1975-79 was peaceful. Got to put
that disclamer in.
The survivors are both the family and those that are part of the honoring ceremony. Both
love the departed soldier citizen.
Wes
technomaNge
>
> Ah! Have your survivors sell tickets on RCM to peace on your grave,
> proceeds to go to the peace-proactive charity of their choice. You
> have dissed and antagonized enough usenet readers to make that a
> lucrative enterprise. For those who can't attend, there could be
> proxy piddlers who peace for pledges.
>
What's the going rate and where do I send it?
I have no intention of travelling to Trolls Many Times funeral.
But I'd like to pay my respects.
technomaNge
--
Due to anticipated high turnout in 2010's election,
the Electorial College has scheduled:
Nov. 1, 2010 All Independents vote.
Nov. 2, 2010 All Republicans vote.
Nov. 3, 2010 All Democrats vote.