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What causes this?
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mko...@gmail.com
Oct 26, 2011, 11:54:22 PM10/26/11
to
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Richard
Oct 27, 2011, 1:16:16 AM10/27/11
to
Is it like that all over? Or just along the bottom?
dav19...@is.invalid
Oct 27, 2011, 1:24:12 AM10/27/11
to
porosity in the original casting uncovered/opened up by the etching
process.
BTW: The sun dials you make are way cool. Do you sell them on a web
site?
Dave
Jim Wilkins
Oct 27, 2011, 7:51:16 AM10/27/11
to
<mko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t7lha7lssmbrv56rl...@4ax.com...
an alloy separate as the cast ingot cools, giving crystals of the more
stable composition surrounded by a less organized mass of somewhat different
proportions. Rolling the metal into sheets spreads out the crystals and
depending on their size (cooling rate) may make the alloy vary with location
at visible scales, like granite rock.
The junction of two different alloys has an electrical potential that is the
difference between their attraction for electrons, like a thermocouple or
battery. In a corrosive environment these slightly different alloys act like
weak batteries, so the more active material will dissolve faster than the
less active one. This is part of why rust forms isolated deep pits instead
of cutting in evenly.
Notice the uncertainty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitting_corrosion
Another part:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crevice_corrosion
HTH
JSW
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 27, 2011, 9:00:39 PM10/27/11
to
I have a few on Etsy:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/crquack?ref=pr_shop_more
The original metal is a 2" washer!
I have a stack of pictures of this phenomenon but in all other
instances there was an intervening resist. I thought I solved the
problem at one point by having the cathode on top so the hydrogen
bubbles would not have to go past the work piece (anode). I am now
wondering if the distance between the electrodes is critical. I did
another piece on the same day which I did not photograph. Because of
the shape of it the distance between the electrodes was very small
(1/8"). The piece was full of holes such as those shown in the
picture. This however, was a negative etch so the holes were all under
the resist. In fact you could tell the result was going to be bad when
I spray-washed the piece after it came out of the bath - the resist
starting coming off in spots exactly where the holes appeared
underneath.
Previously I attributed it to foul biting but seeing it without an
intervening resist makes me re-evaluate.
FWIW I never see this when doing brass which is a gasless process.
I am going to run a trial with several electrode distances to see if I
am right.
I have read a lot about cavitation but it is still black magic to
me:-)
DoN. Nichols
Oct 27, 2011, 9:42:54 PM10/27/11
to
On 2011-10-27, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>
> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
Are those truly pits, or are they projections? I could imagine
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>
> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
air bubbles (or hydrogen) forming on the surface which would prevent as
much access from the etchant.
Either tapping the edge every so often, or applying ultrasonics
from a cleaner might break them up fairly quickly.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Richard
Oct 27, 2011, 10:35:27 PM10/27/11
to
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2011, 12:22:42 AM10/28/11
to
type of corrosion more than the crevice type. I am not sure that it is
the whole explanation. Some of the considerations that puzzle me are:
1) Why would a weak local battery not be swamped by a 2.5A current
passing through the whole system?
2) Why are the pits, if they develop as described in the article, so
deep and apparently so uniform in shape (I enlarged the photo - most
of them seem comma shaped)?
3) Why does one not see similar phenomenon with brass? There I am
removing copper from zinc. One would have thought that local batteries
would if anything be "stronger".
There are other considerations derived from the previous experience of
similar pits developing under a resist. However, I am not even sure
this is the same phenomenon. The pits sure look similar.
I am going to run a few test and see what gives.
Jim Wilkins
Oct 28, 2011, 8:18:53 AM10/28/11
to
<mko...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t0bka79hg0s6ugdmb...@4ax.com...
> ....
>
> I read both several times. Interesting. I can sort of see the pitting
> type of corrosion more than the crevice type. I am not sure that it is
> the whole explanation. Some of the considerations that puzzle me are:
>
> 1) Why would a weak local battery not be swamped by a 2.5A current
> passing through the whole system?
> 2) Why are the pits, if they develop as described in the article, so
> deep and apparently so uniform in shape (I enlarged the photo - most
> of them seem comma shaped)?
> 3) Why does one not see similar phenomenon with brass? There I am
> removing copper from zinc. One would have thought that local batteries
> would if anything be "stronger".
>
> There are other considerations derived from the previous experience of
> similar pits developing under a resist. However, I am not even sure
> this is the same phenomenon. The pits sure look similar.
>
> I am going to run a few test and see what gives.
>
> Michael Koblic,
> Campbell River, BC
The undergrad chemistry courses skimmed lightly over a very wide field of
> I read both several times. Interesting. I can sort of see the pitting
> type of corrosion more than the crevice type. I am not sure that it is
> the whole explanation. Some of the considerations that puzzle me are:
>
> 1) Why would a weak local battery not be swamped by a 2.5A current
> passing through the whole system?
> 2) Why are the pits, if they develop as described in the article, so
> deep and apparently so uniform in shape (I enlarged the photo - most
> of them seem comma shaped)?
> 3) Why does one not see similar phenomenon with brass? There I am
> removing copper from zinc. One would have thought that local batteries
> would if anything be "stronger".
>
> There are other considerations derived from the previous experience of
> similar pits developing under a resist. However, I am not even sure
> this is the same phenomenon. The pits sure look similar.
>
> I am going to run a few test and see what gives.
>
> Michael Koblic,
> Campbell River, BC
industrial applications. They told us we weren't really chemists yet, but
when (if) we got a job in industry we knew enough theory to understand the
explanations, many of which were proprietary trade secrets. Electrochemistry
is particularly secretive about the details that make one battery better
than another. It's still black art, or FM as we say in electronics.
I did check other references. Do you really want to dive into the theory of
redox potential?
jsw
sta...@prolynx.com
Oct 28, 2011, 12:08:12 PM10/28/11
to
this with higher carbon steels when removing rust with phosphoric acid
or the like. Preferential etching at certain grain boundaries. Get
some lower carbon material and more uniform. Non-metallic inclusions
can also get etched out and leave pits, too. Without polishing,
etching and viewing a sample under a microscope, it's just
speculation, though.
Stan
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2011, 8:22:21 PM10/28/11
to
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:35:27 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
[...]
wrote:
[...]
>
>Are you agitating the solution?
>
No, I am not.
>Are you agitating the solution?
>
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2011, 8:27:52 PM10/28/11
to
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:18:53 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>The undergrad chemistry courses skimmed lightly over a very wide field of
>industrial applications. They told us we weren't really chemists yet, but
>when (if) we got a job in industry we knew enough theory to understand the
>explanations, many of which were proprietary trade secrets. Electrochemistry
>is particularly secretive about the details that make one battery better
>than another. It's still black art, or FM as we say in electronics.
>
>I did check other references. Do you really want to dive into the theory of
>redox potential?
>
Not especially. Not beyond what I read in the books I have.
I spent this PM making components for a test set up (time I should
really be spending otherwise, but until I have this sorted it is hard
to move forward). I hope this will provide some insight and
confirm/refute my theory.
I should mention that I have never seen similar pitting on steel when
using a non-electrolytic process (e.g. Ferric Chloride).
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>The undergrad chemistry courses skimmed lightly over a very wide field of
>industrial applications. They told us we weren't really chemists yet, but
>when (if) we got a job in industry we knew enough theory to understand the
>explanations, many of which were proprietary trade secrets. Electrochemistry
>is particularly secretive about the details that make one battery better
>than another. It's still black art, or FM as we say in electronics.
>
>I did check other references. Do you really want to dive into the theory of
>redox potential?
>
I spent this PM making components for a test set up (time I should
really be spending otherwise, but until I have this sorted it is hard
to move forward). I hope this will provide some insight and
confirm/refute my theory.
I should mention that I have never seen similar pitting on steel when
using a non-electrolytic process (e.g. Ferric Chloride).
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2011, 8:31:44 PM10/28/11
to
On 28 Oct 2011 01:42:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com>
wrote:
>On 2011-10-27, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>>
>> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
>> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
>> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
>> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
>
> Are those truly pits, or are they projections? I could imagine
>air bubbles (or hydrogen) forming on the surface which would prevent as
>much access from the etchant.
>
> Either tapping the edge every so often, or applying ultrasonics
>from a cleaner might break them up fairly quickly.
>
They are pits and quite deep at that. The main reason I have the
cathode on top now is to allow for the hydrogen to escape without
coming into contact with the work-piece.
I am going to try a few things tomorrow and see what pans out.
wrote:
>On 2011-10-27, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>>
>> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
>> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
>> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
>> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
>
> Are those truly pits, or are they projections? I could imagine
>air bubbles (or hydrogen) forming on the surface which would prevent as
>much access from the etchant.
>
> Either tapping the edge every so often, or applying ultrasonics
>from a cleaner might break them up fairly quickly.
>
cathode on top now is to allow for the hydrogen to escape without
coming into contact with the work-piece.
I am going to try a few things tomorrow and see what pans out.
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2011, 8:35:22 PM10/28/11
to
never do.
I would go back to using FeCl3 but the depth of etch is so much better
with this process. As often as not I get a clean etch. It is the
unpredictability that irks me.
DoN. Nichols
Oct 28, 2011, 10:24:06 PM10/28/11
to
(low-carbon) steel and process it, you will probably get fairly
consitant results. If you use a lot of "found" or "mystery" metal, then
you don't know what alloy you have, and have to expect variable results.
And buying large washers from the local hardware store leaves
you open for almost any flavor of alloy -- often from the same bin. :-)
Jim Wilkins
Oct 29, 2011, 7:25:38 AM10/29/11
to
"DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrnjamou5.ml...@Katana.d-and-d.com...
> ...>
I don't know about their alloy but the thicknesses can vary considerably
within the bin.
Half a foot of snow in October???
Support Global Warming!
news:slrnjamou5.ml...@Katana.d-and-d.com...
> ...>
> And buying large washers from the local hardware store leaves
> you open for almost any flavor of alloy -- often from the same bin. :-
> DoN.
> you open for almost any flavor of alloy -- often from the same bin. :-
I don't know about their alloy but the thicknesses can vary considerably
within the bin.
Half a foot of snow in October???
Support Global Warming!
Gunner Asch
Oct 29, 2011, 6:12:21 PM10/29/11
to
>On 2011-10-27, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>>
>> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
>> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
>> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
>> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
>
> Are those truly pits, or are they projections? I could imagine
>air bubbles (or hydrogen) forming on the surface which would prevent as
>much access from the etchant.
>
> Either tapping the edge every so often, or applying ultrasonics
>from a cleaner might break them up fairly quickly.
>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
I think DoN has the answer.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6285270870/in/photostream
>>
>> Previously when I saw pits like these I thought it was caused by pin
>> holes in the resist. There was some discussion about its here. I
>> firmly believed that it was the hydrogen bubbles cavitating causing
>> this. However, in this case there is *no* resist!
>
> Are those truly pits, or are they projections? I could imagine
>air bubbles (or hydrogen) forming on the surface which would prevent as
>much access from the etchant.
>
> Either tapping the edge every so often, or applying ultrasonics
>from a cleaner might break them up fairly quickly.
>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Carl Ijames
Oct 29, 2011, 7:40:31 PM10/29/11
to
You could also try mechanical stirring (try a paint mixer in a drill just to
see if it helps), or maybe bubbling with compressed air (mixes ok but
evaporates lots of your solution). Helps keep surfaces uniform when
electropolishing stainless steel, and that's basically what you are doing.
Do you use just vinegar or do you add some table salt for better
conductivity? What strength vinegar? Very nice pieces, BTW.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:ahuoa7ds9bds2alvd...@4ax.com...
see if it helps), or maybe bubbling with compressed air (mixes ok but
evaporates lots of your solution). Helps keep surfaces uniform when
electropolishing stainless steel, and that's basically what you are doing.
Do you use just vinegar or do you add some table salt for better
conductivity? What strength vinegar? Very nice pieces, BTW.
-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:ahuoa7ds9bds2alvd...@4ax.com...
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2011, 9:24:31 PM10/29/11
to
explains the problem entirely.
I am about to give up using washers, at least the 2" variety for the
very reason you state: The thickness varies quite a bit, the quality
varies also. Their availability has decreased: I used to be able to go
to Fastenal and rummage in their bin and pick the ones that were
useful. Fastenal no longer stock them. You can order them but then you
have to take what they send you.
Anyway, to confuse matters further: Here is the first trial I did
today:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/sets/72157627882701769/
Make of it what you will. The next thing is to try increase the
distance between the plates and/or try to run the whole assembly on
its side so the bubbles have a free exit.
I included a picture of a piece that ended up like pig's breakfast
just to show that whatever it is that causes the pits it blasts its
way through 4 coats of resist if the conditions are right.
That is always assuming that the cause of the pitting in the different
pieces is the same.
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
it is not warming or it is not global:-)
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 30, 2011, 8:22:55 PM10/30/11
to
does not work!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6296932934/in/photostream
Larry Jaques
Oct 30, 2011, 9:11:53 PM10/30/11
to
<snort>
--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.
mko...@gmail.com
Oct 31, 2011, 11:21:48 PM10/31/11
to
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 18:11:53 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:22:55 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:24:31 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>That is always assuming that the cause of the pitting in the different
>>>pieces is the same.
>>>
>>
>>One thing is for sure: Putting coffee filter between the electrodes
>>does not work!
>>
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6296932934/in/photostream
>
>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
><snort>
You are probably right. This would make my original idea of using
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:22:55 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:24:31 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>That is always assuming that the cause of the pitting in the different
>>>pieces is the same.
>>>
>>
>>One thing is for sure: Putting coffee filter between the electrodes
>>does not work!
>>
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6296932934/in/photostream
>
>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
><snort>
toilet paper even less acceptable...
Larry Jaques
Nov 1, 2011, 12:03:16 AM11/1/11
to
take a square of TP and fold it into quarters, then tear off the tip
where the 4 squares meet. The piece is unfolded and then placed over
your bird finger to the second knuckle, used for its purpose, folded
over the finger and pulled off to clean off the finger, and the small
piece used to clean your fingernail.
(This is a real hoot to show to people.)
mko...@gmail.com
Nov 1, 2011, 8:41:46 PM11/1/11
to
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:03:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
[...]
>>>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
>>><snort>
>>
>>You are probably right. This would make my original idea of using
>>toilet paper even less acceptable...
>
>Indeed. Even if you used the Advanced Polish toilet paper, where you
>take a square of TP and fold it into quarters, then tear off the tip
>where the 4 squares meet. The piece is unfolded and then placed over
>your bird finger to the second knuckle, used for its purpose, folded
>over the finger and pulled off to clean off the finger, and the small
>piece used to clean your fingernail.
>
>(This is a real hoot to show to people.)
Aren't we fortunate this place isn't moderated!
But back to the original problem - I think I found the solution. The
bubbles *are* a problem and if one keeps the electrodes 1" apart and
vertical the etch is pit-free.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6304472912/in/photostream
[...]
>>>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
>>><snort>
>>
>>You are probably right. This would make my original idea of using
>>toilet paper even less acceptable...
>
>Indeed. Even if you used the Advanced Polish toilet paper, where you
>take a square of TP and fold it into quarters, then tear off the tip
>where the 4 squares meet. The piece is unfolded and then placed over
>your bird finger to the second knuckle, used for its purpose, folded
>over the finger and pulled off to clean off the finger, and the small
>piece used to clean your fingernail.
>
>(This is a real hoot to show to people.)
But back to the original problem - I think I found the solution. The
bubbles *are* a problem and if one keeps the electrodes 1" apart and
vertical the etch is pit-free.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6304472912/in/photostream
Larry Jaques
Nov 1, 2011, 11:43:38 PM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:41:46 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:03:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
>
> [...]
>
>>>>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
>>>><snort>
>>>
>>>You are probably right. This would make my original idea of using
>>>toilet paper even less acceptable...
>>
>>Indeed. Even if you used the Advanced Polish toilet paper, where you
>>take a square of TP and fold it into quarters, then tear off the tip
>>where the 4 squares meet. The piece is unfolded and then placed over
>>your bird finger to the second knuckle, used for its purpose, folded
>>over the finger and pulled off to clean off the finger, and the small
>>piece used to clean your fingernail.
>>
>>(This is a real hoot to show to people.)
>
>Aren't we fortunate this place isn't moderated!
You betcha!
>On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:03:16 -0700, Larry Jaques
>
> [...]
>
>>>>Um, Mikey, try using one -without- the old grounds in it next time.
>>>><snort>
>>>
>>>You are probably right. This would make my original idea of using
>>>toilet paper even less acceptable...
>>
>>Indeed. Even if you used the Advanced Polish toilet paper, where you
>>take a square of TP and fold it into quarters, then tear off the tip
>>where the 4 squares meet. The piece is unfolded and then placed over
>>your bird finger to the second knuckle, used for its purpose, folded
>>over the finger and pulled off to clean off the finger, and the small
>>piece used to clean your fingernail.
>>
>>(This is a real hoot to show to people.)
>
>Aren't we fortunate this place isn't moderated!
>But back to the original problem - I think I found the solution. The
>bubbles *are* a problem and if one keeps the electrodes 1" apart and
>vertical the etch is pit-free.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6304472912/in/photostream
that material with that solution and power supply. Maybe a perfect
multiple of the bubble width?
--
When you are kind to someone in trouble, you hope they'll remember
and be kind to someone else. And it'll become like a wildfire.
-- Whoopi Goldberg
mko...@gmail.com
Nov 2, 2011, 11:46:05 PM11/2/11
to
result on Plate 5 was because the precipitate was holding the bubbles
in the electrolyte and they got closer to the anode. Although plate 4
was closer to the cathode the electrolyte was clear and the bubbles
were free to escape.
Tomorrow I am going to look at a container big enough and narrow
enough to do some of the bigger pieces side-by-side so there is enough
space between the electrodes yet I do not have to use a gallon of
electrolyte every time.
Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
Larry Jaques
Nov 3, 2011, 6:20:34 AM11/3/11
to
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:46:05 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:43:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:41:46 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>But back to the original problem - I think I found the solution. The
>>>bubbles *are* a problem and if one keeps the electrodes 1" apart and
>>>vertical the etch is pit-free.
>>>
>>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6304472912/in/photostream
>>
>>Cool! Now to figure out why 1 inch is the key to pitless etching of
>>that material with that solution and power supply. Maybe a perfect
>>multiple of the bubble width?
>
> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
I think I was referring to any electrical characteristics of the
>On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:43:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:41:46 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>But back to the original problem - I think I found the solution. The
>>>bubbles *are* a problem and if one keeps the electrodes 1" apart and
>>>vertical the etch is pit-free.
>>>
>>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6304472912/in/photostream
>>
>>Cool! Now to figure out why 1 inch is the key to pitless etching of
>>that material with that solution and power supply. Maybe a perfect
>>multiple of the bubble width?
>
> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
electrolyte may have, wondering if it equated to bubble (or potential
bubble) size. I know that there are shadings in solution, so parts not
directly in line will have different etch characteristics. Jeeeze, I
haven't done any etching in a couple dozen years, and even then, it
was plating. <g>
>result on Plate 5 was because the precipitate was holding the bubbles
>in the electrolyte and they got closer to the anode. Although plate 4
>was closer to the cathode the electrolyte was clear and the bubbles
>were free to escape.
>Tomorrow I am going to look at a container big enough and narrow
>enough to do some of the bigger pieces side-by-side so there is enough
>space between the electrodes yet I do not have to use a gallon of
>electrolyte every time.
>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
used as evidence against us?
--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix
mko...@gmail.com
Nov 3, 2011, 11:56:23 PM11/3/11
to
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
>
>I think I was referring to any electrical characteristics of the
>electrolyte may have, wondering if it equated to bubble (or potential
>bubble) size. I know that there are shadings in solution, so parts not
>directly in line will have different etch characteristics. Jeeeze, I
>haven't done any etching in a couple dozen years, and even then, it
>was plating. <g>
From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
up the iron begins to precipitate. If you omit the vinegar it happens
right at the start.
Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[...]
>> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
>
>I think I was referring to any electrical characteristics of the
>electrolyte may have, wondering if it equated to bubble (or potential
>bubble) size. I know that there are shadings in solution, so parts not
>directly in line will have different etch characteristics. Jeeeze, I
>haven't done any etching in a couple dozen years, and even then, it
>was plating. <g>
>
>
>>result on Plate 5 was because the precipitate was holding the bubbles
>>in the electrolyte and they got closer to the anode. Although plate 4
>>was closer to the cathode the electrolyte was clear and the bubbles
>>were free to escape.
>
>What precipitate? The etched material?
Ferric Hydroxide. Some ferrous too I think. When the acetate is used
>
>>result on Plate 5 was because the precipitate was holding the bubbles
>>in the electrolyte and they got closer to the anode. Although plate 4
>>was closer to the cathode the electrolyte was clear and the bubbles
>>were free to escape.
>
>What precipitate? The etched material?
up the iron begins to precipitate. If you omit the vinegar it happens
right at the start.
>
>
>>Tomorrow I am going to look at a container big enough and narrow
>>enough to do some of the bigger pieces side-by-side so there is enough
>>space between the electrodes yet I do not have to use a gallon of
>>electrolyte every time.
>
>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
CuSO4 I re-use all the time. Just top up the wastage and evaporation.
>
>>Tomorrow I am going to look at a container big enough and narrow
>>enough to do some of the bigger pieces side-by-side so there is enough
>>space between the electrodes yet I do not have to use a gallon of
>>electrolyte every time.
>
>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
>
>
>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>
>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>used as evidence against us?
You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>
>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>
>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>used as evidence against us?
Richard
Nov 4, 2011, 3:07:41 AM11/4/11
to
Larry Jaques
Nov 4, 2011, 8:26:43 AM11/4/11
to
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
>>
>>I think I was referring to any electrical characteristics of the
>>electrolyte may have, wondering if it equated to bubble (or potential
>>bubble) size. I know that there are shadings in solution, so parts not
>>directly in line will have different etch characteristics. Jeeeze, I
>>haven't done any etching in a couple dozen years, and even then, it
>>was plating. <g>
>
>From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
A truly "Duh!" moment, was it?
>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> Nah, the bubbles just don't go near the anode. I suspect the poor
>>
>>I think I was referring to any electrical characteristics of the
>>electrolyte may have, wondering if it equated to bubble (or potential
>>bubble) size. I know that there are shadings in solution, so parts not
>>directly in line will have different etch characteristics. Jeeeze, I
>>haven't done any etching in a couple dozen years, and even then, it
>>was plating. <g>
>
>From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
>>>result on Plate 5 was because the precipitate was holding the bubbles
>>>in the electrolyte and they got closer to the anode. Although plate 4
>>>was closer to the cathode the electrolyte was clear and the bubbles
>>>were free to escape.
>>
>>What precipitate? The etched material?
>
>Ferric Hydroxide. Some ferrous too I think. When the acetate is used
>up the iron begins to precipitate. If you omit the vinegar it happens
>right at the start.
>>>Tomorrow I am going to look at a container big enough and narrow
>>>enough to do some of the bigger pieces side-by-side so there is enough
>>>space between the electrodes yet I do not have to use a gallon of
>>>electrolyte every time.
>>
>>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
>
>CuSO4 I re-use all the time. Just top up the wastage and evaporation.
>Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>
>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>used as evidence against us?
>
>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates
mko...@gmail.com
Nov 4, 2011, 11:46:59 PM11/4/11
to
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6313743200/in/photostream
(and the next two pics)
The results are beautiful, but then I could do the small pieces with
negative etching quite well before. The thing that was interesting was
the unidirectional movement of the hydrogen bubbles *away* from the
anode.
The proof of the pudding will happen in a day or so when I shall
repeat the etch that sparked the OP.
>
>
[...]
>>>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
>>
>>CuSO4 I re-use all the time. Just top up the wastage and evaporation.
>>Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
>
>Cool. That's an inexpensive bath.
>
>Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
>solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
>for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
>I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
Here they use them to kill roots in septic tanks. Actually I am using
a commercial solution sold by jewelers' supply company for copper
plating. I do have a bunch of CuSO4 crystals which I will go to next
when I run out of the current solution.
into the hippie thing.
on the bedpost overnight?", "Calendar song" and other such
masterpieces.
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
>
>A truly "Duh!" moment, was it?
Ah, but I wish it was all that simple. I just rigged up my new set-up:
>
>A truly "Duh!" moment, was it?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6313743200/in/photostream
(and the next two pics)
The results are beautiful, but then I could do the small pieces with
negative etching quite well before. The thing that was interesting was
the unidirectional movement of the hydrogen bubbles *away* from the
anode.
The proof of the pudding will happen in a day or so when I shall
repeat the etch that sparked the OP.
>
>
[...]
>>>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
>>
>>CuSO4 I re-use all the time. Just top up the wastage and evaporation.
>>Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
>
>Cool. That's an inexpensive bath.
>
>Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
>solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
>for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
>I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
a commercial solution sold by jewelers' supply company for copper
plating. I do have a bunch of CuSO4 crystals which I will go to next
when I run out of the current solution.
>
>
>>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>
>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>used as evidence against us?
>>
>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>
>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>
>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
I seem to remember a movie of similar name. About 1970? I was never
>
>>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>
>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>used as evidence against us?
>>
>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>
>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>
>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
into the hippie thing.
>
>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>
>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
Your culture. I shall stick to "Does your chewing gum lose its flavor
>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>
>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
on the bedpost overnight?", "Calendar song" and other such
masterpieces.
DoN. Nichols
Nov 5, 2011, 12:11:44 AM11/5/11
to
On 2011-11-04, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>used as evidence against us?
>
> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
It is a popular culture reference. :-)
>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>used as evidence against us?
>
> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
You never heard the full 18 minute 34 second run of Alice's
Restaurant -- a cant-fable (talking and singing mixed) by Arlo Guthrie
back in the 1960s I believe.
This will tell you about it:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant>
and here are the full lyrics, if you prefer to read it instead of to
listen to it:
<http://arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml>
The first mention of the quoted text is about in the tenth
paragraph/verse, depending on how you count.
Enjoy,
Larry Jaques
Nov 5, 2011, 12:44:50 AM11/5/11
to
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:46:59 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>
>>>From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
>>
>>A truly "Duh!" moment, was it?
>
>Ah, but I wish it was all that simple. I just rigged up my new set-up:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6313743200/in/photostream
>
>(and the next two pics)
Y'know, that looks like a januwine termite barf inlaid Harbor Freight
>On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>
>>>From my careful scientific observation: Mo' current, mo' bubbles.
>>
>>A truly "Duh!" moment, was it?
>
>Ah, but I wish it was all that simple. I just rigged up my new set-up:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/27683124@N07/6313743200/in/photostream
>
>(and the next two pics)
workmutt clone that your etch tank is resting upon. I sold mine in my
garage sale a few months ago. Nice power supply, sir.
>The results are beautiful, but then I could do the small pieces with
>negative etching quite well before. The thing that was interesting was
>the unidirectional movement of the hydrogen bubbles *away* from the
>anode.
<silly grinne>
>The proof of the pudding will happen in a day or so when I shall
>repeat the etch that sparked the OP.
>[...]
>
>>>>Is this entirely sacrificial, or can you reuse electrolyte?
>>>
>>>CuSO4 I re-use all the time. Just top up the wastage and evaporation.
>>>Salt and vinegar needs to be fresh for the reasons above.
>>
>>Cool. That's an inexpensive bath.
>>
>>Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
>>solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
>>for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
>>I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
>
>Here they use them to kill roots in septic tanks. Actually I am using
>a commercial solution sold by jewelers' supply company for copper
>plating. I do have a bunch of CuSO4 crystals which I will go to next
>when I run out of the current solution.
>>>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>>
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>
>I seem to remember a movie of similar name. About 1970? I was never
>into the hippie thing.
>>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
>
>Your culture. I shall stick to "Does your chewing gum lose its flavor
>on the bedpost overnight?", "Calendar song" and other such
>masterpieces.
Gunner Asch
Nov 5, 2011, 3:02:23 AM11/5/11
to
Freakian Opera
Gunner Asch
Nov 5, 2011, 2:30:56 PM11/5/11
to
On 5 Nov 2011 04:11:44 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com>
wrote:
>On 2011-11-04, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>used as evidence against us?
>>
>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>
> It is a popular culture reference. :-)
>
> You never heard the full 18 minute 34 second run of Alice's
>Restaurant -- a cant-fable (talking and singing mixed) by Arlo Guthrie
>back in the 1960s I believe.
>
> This will tell you about it:
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant>
>
>and here are the full lyrics, if you prefer to read it instead of to
>listen to it:
>
> <http://arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml>
>
>The first mention of the quoted text is about in the tenth
>paragraph/verse, depending on how you count.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
"you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
Crom but those were the fun daze....
wrote:
>On 2011-11-04, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>used as evidence against us?
>>
>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>
> It is a popular culture reference. :-)
>
> You never heard the full 18 minute 34 second run of Alice's
>Restaurant -- a cant-fable (talking and singing mixed) by Arlo Guthrie
>back in the 1960s I believe.
>
> This will tell you about it:
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant>
>
>and here are the full lyrics, if you prefer to read it instead of to
>listen to it:
>
> <http://arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml>
>
>The first mention of the quoted text is about in the tenth
>paragraph/verse, depending on how you count.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
Crom but those were the fun daze....
Richard
Nov 5, 2011, 2:38:59 PM11/5/11
to
On 11/5/2011 2:02 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>> Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>> worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>> behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>>
>>>> Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>> a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>> used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>> Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>> We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>> Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>> States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>>
>> Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>> "I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>> OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
>
> It IS Opera. Just not European or Italian.
>
> Freakian Opera
>
> Gunner
>
NOT opera. It has spoken dialog.
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>> Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>> worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>> behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>>
>>>> Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>> a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>> used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>> Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>> We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>> Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>> States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>>
>> Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>> "I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>> OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
>
> It IS Opera. Just not European or Italian.
>
> Freakian Opera
>
> Gunner
>
DoN. Nichols
Nov 5, 2011, 5:21:40 PM11/5/11
to
On 2011-11-05, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 20:56:23 -0700, mko...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>
> I seem to remember a movie of similar name. About 1970? I was never
> into the hippie thing.
The movie was based on the events in the song.
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>
> I seem to remember a movie of similar name. About 1970? I was never
> into the hippie thing.
>>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
mko...@gmail.com
Nov 5, 2011, 10:41:18 PM11/5/11
to
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:44:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[...]
>
Fence-building of 2011.
2) It *is* nice. $6 in a garage sale. It keeps constant current up to
3A. It is particularly useful when doing brass as the voltage seems to
dance around a lot doing that.
>
[...]
>>>Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
>>>solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
>>>for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
>>>I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
>>
>>Here they use them to kill roots in septic tanks. Actually I am using
>>a commercial solution sold by jewelers' supply company for copper
>>plating. I do have a bunch of CuSO4 crystals which I will go to next
>>when I run out of the current solution.
>
>Doesn't it kill the beneficial bacteria, too?
Who knows? Who cares? The Global Warming will kill us all anyway!
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Y'know, that looks like a januwine termite barf inlaid Harbor Freight
>workmutt clone that your etch tank is resting upon. I sold mine in my
>garage sale a few months ago. Nice power supply, sir.
1) Close - Crappy Tire. With a bit hacked off during the Heroic
>workmutt clone that your etch tank is resting upon. I sold mine in my
>garage sale a few months ago. Nice power supply, sir.
Fence-building of 2011.
2) It *is* nice. $6 in a garage sale. It keeps constant current up to
3A. It is particularly useful when doing brass as the voltage seems to
dance around a lot doing that.
>
>
>>The results are beautiful, but then I could do the small pieces with
>>negative etching quite well before. The thing that was interesting was
>>the unidirectional movement of the hydrogen bubbles *away* from the
>>anode.
>
>Yeah, that's fun. Now reverse the polarity and see what happens!
><silly grinne>
Some other time.
>
>>The results are beautiful, but then I could do the small pieces with
>>negative etching quite well before. The thing that was interesting was
>>the unidirectional movement of the hydrogen bubbles *away* from the
>>anode.
>
>Yeah, that's fun. Now reverse the polarity and see what happens!
><silly grinne>
>
[...]
>>>Those pretty blue crystals are good for poison oak/ivy, too. Make a
>>>solution and pad it on the affected area. It'll make your skin crawl
>>>for a few minutes but it removes the oil, the itch, and the spread.
>>>I haven't noted any toxic feeling afterward, but it's a 1-time bath.
>>
>>Here they use them to kill roots in septic tanks. Actually I am using
>>a commercial solution sold by jewelers' supply company for copper
>>plating. I do have a bunch of CuSO4 crystals which I will go to next
>>when I run out of the current solution.
>
>Doesn't it kill the beneficial bacteria, too?
pyotr filipivich
Nov 6, 2011, 11:31:55 AM11/6/11
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:30:56 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
which he observed, that Nixon was notorious for an 18 minute gap in
the tapes. "'Now Arlo', I said to myself, 'Can you think of anything
else which is exactly 18 minutes and 34 seconds long .."
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On 5 Nov 2011 04:11:44 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com>
>wrote:
>>On 2011-11-04, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>> It is a popular culture reference. :-)
>>
>> You never heard the full 18 minute 34 second run of Alice's
>>Restaurant -- a cant-fable (talking and singing mixed) by Arlo Guthrie
>>back in the 1960s I believe.
>>
>> This will tell you about it:
>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant>
>>
>>and here are the full lyrics, if you prefer to read it instead of to
>>listen to it:
>>
>> <http://arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml>
>>
>>The first mention of the quoted text is about in the tenth
>>paragraph/verse, depending on how you count.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>
>"you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
He redid the album, with a longer version of "The Massacree". In
>wrote:
>>On 2011-11-04, mko...@gmail.com <mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>> You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>> It is a popular culture reference. :-)
>>
>> You never heard the full 18 minute 34 second run of Alice's
>>Restaurant -- a cant-fable (talking and singing mixed) by Arlo Guthrie
>>back in the 1960s I believe.
>>
>> This will tell you about it:
>>
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Restaurant>
>>
>>and here are the full lyrics, if you prefer to read it instead of to
>>listen to it:
>>
>> <http://arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml>
>>
>>The first mention of the quoted text is about in the tenth
>>paragraph/verse, depending on how you count.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>
>"you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
which he observed, that Nixon was notorious for an 18 minute gap in
the tapes. "'Now Arlo', I said to myself, 'Can you think of anything
else which is exactly 18 minutes and 34 seconds long .."
>
>Crom but those were the fun daze....
"Excepting Alice!"
>Crom but those were the fun daze....
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.
pyotr filipivich
Nov 6, 2011, 11:40:36 AM11/6/11
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 05 Nov 2011 00:02:23 -0700
"It might be a movement!"
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:26:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>>
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>>
>>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
>
>It IS Opera. Just not European or Italian.
>
>Freakian Opera
They even made a movie of it.
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>>Anyway, I moved onto brass today which I thought I had pretty much
>>>>>worked out. I did two small plates and observed some really weird
>>>>>behavior. OTOH I do not care as long as the result is OK.
>>>>
>>>>Got eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
>>>>a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be
>>>>used as evidence against us?
>>>
>>>You lost me there. Something to do with Mchael Jackson perhaps?
>>
>>Newp, I don't have anything to do with the Jacksons, ever.
>>
>>We must have hit the cultural divide between our countries.
>>Arlo Guthrie's song "Alice's Restaurant" is a cult classic here in the
>>States. Listen to it and weep: http://goo.gl/qsb8K
>>
>>Another cultured fave is "The Motorcycle Song" http://goo.gl/Scw2p
>>"I don't want a pickle. Just wanna ride on my motorsickle."
>>
>>OBTW, this is folk culture, not opera or symphony or sumpin'.
>
>It IS Opera. Just not European or Italian.
>
>Freakian Opera
"It might be a movement!"
technomaNge
Nov 6, 2011, 4:48:23 PM11/6/11
to
On 11/05/2011 01:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
> "you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
>
> Crom but those were the fun daze....
>
As best as I can remember it, "daze" is the correct word.
> "you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
>
> Crom but those were the fun daze....
>
technomaNge
--
If you remember the '60s,
you weren't there.
Gunner Asch
Nov 6, 2011, 9:01:34 PM11/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 15:48:23 -0600, technomaNge <u...@ftc.gov> wrote:
>On 11/05/2011 01:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
>> "you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
>>
>> Crom but those were the fun daze....
>>
>
>As best as I can remember it, "daze" is the correct word.
>
>
>
>technomaNge
Ayup...which is why I used it.
>On 11/05/2011 01:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>
>> "you can get anything you want...at Alllliccces Restaurant....."
>>
>> Crom but those were the fun daze....
>>
>
>As best as I can remember it, "daze" is the correct word.
>
>
>
>technomaNge
<VBG>
Gunner
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