Mars Direct, or getting there is half the fun.
pyotr filipivich
Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
the whole bloody book.
First off, wikepedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
Key features are given in this more technical web site.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/marirect.htm
The Frontier is needed, and since the Old West closed a century ago,
there is this sense that "We've reached the edge of cultivation." But
space is still the final frontier, although for the foreseeable
future, I'm afraid we're going to be stuck with Mars as the only
habitable world. Not unless someone can figure out how to make Venus
habitable.
Here's a link to "The Promise of Mars." by Robert Zubrin
http://www.nss.org/settlement/mars/zubrin-promise.html
And because there is a wiki for just about everything - the MarsWiki
article.
http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Mars_Direct
Okay, that ought to answer a lot of questions.
My main issue in all this is that We, the American People, need a
frontier. If not for ourselves, then as an option for others, our
kids, or just because ... As a cutting edge where people are doing
new things (Or the same old things - making babies and a living - in
different ways and places.). We're not an ethnic group, to say "Us
Americans are those who have always been here." No, like the
Hungarian father told his son before emigrating "We are Americans, we
were just born in the wrong place." It is those ideas of America -
the 'root hog or die' mythos that units us, and drives us into the
future.
John F Kennedy aimed high by committing the US to putting a man on
the moon in ten years. We still need that sort of national goal. Not
necessarily a goal set by a government committee, but by a leader, a
statesman The President if possible, or someone else with a vision.
"For lack of a vision, the people perish".
tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
>the whole bloody book.
>
>First off, wikepedia.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
> We still need that sort of national goal.
What's wrong with a national goal of eliminating poverty? Is it really
so difficult to see that a manned mission to Mars will be reminiscent
of the Soviet Union parading its fancy military hardware while its
people stood in line for bread? How much good did their pretending do
them?
Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success". Then
consider some practical realities. Unless there's a miracle change in
attitudes and priorities, things are going to get worse overall in the
long run. A Mars mission is a lengthy undertaking, and an underfunded
effort is doomed to wither on the vine and produce a lot of stuff like
this http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2010/03/nasa-procuremen.html in
the process. Exactly the kind of symbolism to avoid.
Wayne
steamer
gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue. Priorities.
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
wmbjk...@citlink.net
>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
class size? Or a guarantee that even the poorest will have good access
to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
Mars.
> Also if Earth
>gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
<chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>Priorities.
Exactly.
Wayne
Buerste
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:on7pr5lbip51a8uts...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success". Then
> consider some practical realities. Unless there's a miracle change in
> attitudes and priorities, things are going to get worse overall in the
> long run. A Mars mission is a lengthy undertaking, and an underfunded
> effort is doomed to wither on the vine and produce a lot of stuff like
> this http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2010/03/nasa-procuremen.html in
> the process. Exactly the kind of symbolism to avoid.
>
> Wayne
Read this: http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
dca...@krl.org
> If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
> class size?
> Wayne
I agree with you that going to Mars is not the best choice. But a cap
on school class size.............. You do know there is no
corrolation between school class size and learning.
Dan
Concerend Citizen
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:43:54 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>
> <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
> >the whole bloody book.
>
> >First off, wikepedia.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
> > We still need that sort of national goal.
>
> What's wrong with a national goal of eliminating poverty?
Nothing wrong at all.
First we close our borders.
Then we revoke business licenses for entities that hire illegals.
30 million jobs just opened up.
End of Poverty in America.
Next?
> Is it really
> so difficult to see that a manned mission to Mars will be reminiscent
> of the Soviet Union parading its fancy military hardware while its
> people stood in line for bread? How much good did their pretending do
> them?
We did the same thing at the same time.
But it worked well for us, and in doing so we won the cold war.
We received something called the Peace Dividend and squandered it on
give away programs.
> Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
because this isn't programming class.
Symbolism? No. I like Americans working and paying their fair share
of taxes.
There's no symbolism in that, just good policy.
> Then consider some practical realities. Unless there's a miracle change
> in attitudes and priorities, things are going to get worse overall in the
> long run.
We need an election for things to get better.
rangerssuck
wrote:
> > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
> Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
> because this isn't programming class.
>
If you're going to be a grammar cop, you probably want to learn the
difference between parenthesis and quotation marks.for an entertaining
and informative read on the subject I highly recommend this book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=c3ETv37GqfcC&lpg=PP1&dq=eats%20shoots%20and%20leaves&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
Eats, shoots, and leaves By Lynne Truss
Concerend Citizen
> On Apr 7, 2:37 pm, Concerend Citizen <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>
> > > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
> > Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
> > because this isn't programming class.
>
> If you're going to be a grammar cop, you probably want to learn the
> difference between parenthesis and quotation marks.for an entertaining
> and informative read on the subject I highly recommend this book:
>
> Eats, shoots, and leaves By Lynne Truss
I'm fond of saying that those who stoop to making fun of others for
their spelling/punctuation mistakes typically embed a mistake in that
very posting, as so often evidenced by Observer.
And now, I'M GUILTY!
Sorry.
What of my other comments?
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:43:54 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>
>> <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
>> >the whole bloody book.
>>
>> >First off, wikepedia.
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
>> > We still need that sort of national goal.
>>
>> What's wrong with a national goal of eliminating poverty?
>
>Nothing wrong at all.
>
>First we close our borders.
>
>Then we revoke business licenses for entities that hire illegals.
>
>30 million jobs just opened up.
>
>End of Poverty in America.
LOL Maybe gummer will take up strawberry picking or chicken chopping,
vaulting himself into the middle class. And then angels will
reschedule rain for the days before they wash my car.
>Next?
>> Is it really
>> so difficult to see that a manned mission to Mars will be reminiscent
>> of the Soviet Union parading its fancy military hardware while its
>> people stood in line for bread? How much good did their pretending do
>> them?
>
>We did the same thing at the same time.
>
>But it worked well for us, and in doing so we won the cold war.
Aha! So the plan is to outspend China this time. Are you sure they'll
lend the money for that?
>We received something called the Peace Dividend and squandered it on
>give away programs.
And this giveaway money went where, exactly?
>> Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
>Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
>because this isn't programming class.
As soon as you start giving more than 2 seconds' thought to what you
write.
>Symbolism? No. I like Americans working and paying their fair share
>of taxes.
That's strange, because it sounds like you're in favor of more debt
and more delusion.
>There's no symbolism in that, just good policy.
Let's see your plan for paying for a Mars mission, and *exactly* where
any increased tax revenue will come from. Let me guess - hotels
selling bagels to NASA?
>> Then consider some practical realities. Unless there's a miracle change
>> in attitudes and priorities, things are going to get worse overall in the
>> long run.
>
>We need an election for things to get better.
That's the kind of attitude that needs changing. Another would be NASA
procurement officers believing instinctively that hotel food is pricey
and in no way part of "better faster cheaper". But neither is going to
happen. In fact, at the rate we're going, Oprah could be the next
prez, elected on a platform of "you get a bagel, you get a bagel, you
get a bagel..."
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
What part of "priorities" don't you get? Aren't you the guy who's
constantly blaming overspending on liberals? Now you're pretending
that a manned Mars mission is a good investment! Hey big spender, have
you thought about the reality of a couple decades from now, such as
driving 30 extra miles because a bridge was condemned?
Wayne
pyotr filipivich
wmbjk...@citlink.net reported Elvis on Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:56:34
-0700 in misc.survivalism:
>On 07 Apr 2010 16:41:22 GMT, steamer <ste...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
>
>"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
>not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
>
>If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
>class size? Or a guarantee that even the poorest will have good access
>to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
>Mars.
>
How about we set up a Federal Department of Education, to make
sure that all the children are above average?
>> Also if Earth
>>gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
>
>Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
><chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>
>>Priorities.
>
>Exactly.
So exactly how will you raise the bottom half to be above average?
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
pyotr filipivich
<bue...@buerste.com> reported Elvis on Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:19:08
-0400 in misc.survivalism:
But but, that won't lift the lower half above the mean! It won't
eliminate poverty!
The poor you will have with you always. That was an observation
made two thousand years ago. I've yet to see any evidence that it is
not still applicable.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
I've pasted a link below, but you shouldn't need it. Try a little
extrapolating with your theory. How big do you think classes can get
without any detriment?
http://www2.ed.gov/pubs/ReducingClass/Class_size.html
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
>wmbjk...@citlink.net reported Elvis on Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:56:34
>-0700 in misc.survivalism:
>>On 07 Apr 2010 16:41:22 GMT, steamer <ste...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
>>
>>"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
>>not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
>>
>>If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
>>class size? Or a guarantee that even the poorest will have good access
>>to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
>>Mars.
>>
>
> How about we set up a Federal Department of Education, to make
>sure that all the children are above average?
Nice job showing how much thought you've given to your opinion.
Wayne
dca...@krl.org
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 11:35:39 -0700 (PDT), "dcas...@krl.org"
One of my college courses had several hundred in it.
Dan
Buerste
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:5fnpr59vl8rpui2ln...@4ax.com...
Sorry, I believe the benefits of a viable space/science program FAR outweigh
the cost. In thirty years we might not need bridges because of a discovery
by the space program. How much money is wasted on junk science? ...and you
KNOW what I mean! Your Utopia is to take all the wealth in the world and
divvy it up. Good for you! Start with YOUR wealth...not somebody else's!
Have you ever contributed to any charities? Or, do you prefer that wealth
be confiscated from somebody else and given away...with a few political
strings?
You believe in Socialism/Marxism/Communism...I don't.
Buerste
"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:qjnpr59dtdgfab7a0...@4ax.com...
"Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Whatever you tax, you get less
of."
Buerste
"Concerend Citizen" <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:017d52ec-9ed2-4a05...@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Sorry.
*****************
I'm sure he's in full agreement!
cavelamb
Mine too.
Between 10 and 20 finished the class.
--
Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
cavelamb
>
>>
>> How about we set up a Federal Department of Education, to make
>> sure that all the children are above average?
>
> Nice job showing how much thought you've given to your opinion.
>
> Wayne
Joke, Wayne.
Garrison Keillor?
A Prairie Home Companion ?
Lake Wobegon?
"where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the
children are above average."
wmbjk...@citlink.net
Well then there ya' go. I suggest that you attend your next school
board meeting and fill them in on your money-saving idea. Did you know
that some of those crazies believe that anything beyond about 20 grade
school kids per teacher is a recipe for even more of what we're
already getting: kids who are likely to need a picture of a burger on
the register key? Do you have any serious suggestions about how to
improve the situation?
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
wrote:
Sure, but you believe a lot of really silly things. Will you show us
your estimate of the cost of a manned Mars mission, and your list of
the expected benefits? Or will you just blubber out a bunch of nutball
accusations as usual?
> In thirty years we might not need bridges because of a discovery
>by the space program.
Are you thinking flying cars, or teleportation? I thought your main
thrust on usenet was that the world was going to hell in a hand basket
because of liberalism? Now you're writing like some idealistic grade
school student who just watched his first episode of Star Trek.
> How much money is wasted on junk science? ...and you
>KNOW what I mean!
I think you mean whatever you'll make up next...
>Your Utopia is to take all the wealth in the world and
>divvy it up.
Hah! I was right. Classic buerste.
> Good for you! Start with YOUR wealth...not somebody else's!
>Have you ever contributed to any charities? Or, do you prefer that wealth
>be confiscated from somebody else and given away...with a few political
>strings?
>
>You believe in Socialism/Marxism/Communism...I don't.
You're clearly the big spender here. What happened to capitalism? If
you think that a Mars mission will be profitable, then why are you
here instead of meeting with the rest of your investment team? If you
guys are willing to brown-bag it then you should be able to get to
Mars a lot cheaper than the NASA weenies who need big money just for
snacks.
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
earthlink.net"> wrote:
>On 4/7/2010 2:41 PM, wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How about we set up a Federal Department of Education, to make
>>> sure that all the children are above average?
>>
>> Nice job showing how much thought you've given to your opinion.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>
>Joke, Wayne.
>
>Garrison Keillor?
>A Prairie Home Companion ?
>Lake Wobegon?
>
>
>"where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the
>children are above average."
You give him too much credit. His whole post was a joke. As is most
everything he cranks out.
Wayne
Buerste
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:ga1qr5helolm19rig...@4ax.com...
?<snip>
Gee, you avoided every point I made...imagine that! Looks like I
won...AGAIN! Buck-up little camper, Obammy will save the day!
Funny, no mention of a VAT before the Obammy-care vote...why is that?
pyotr filipivich
-0700 in misc.survivalism:
>On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:43:54 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
>>the whole bloody book.
>>
>>First off, wikepedia.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
>
>> We still need that sort of national goal.
>
>What's wrong with a national goal of eliminating poverty?
Define "poverty" Or do you want to raise the bottom half so that
they are above the average?
We could do wonders for unemployment if we just did away with all
the machinery. How many people do you think we could employ building
roads, or buildings, or cars Heck, we could restore Detroit! if we
just did away with the heavy machinery which is taking the jobs away
from people.
>Is it really
>so difficult to see that a manned mission to Mars will be reminiscent
>of the Soviet Union parading its fancy military hardware while its
>people stood in line for bread? How much good did their pretending do
>them?
Considering that they had a Progressive Government, and no
unemployment - what's your beef?
>
>Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success". Then
>consider some practical realities. Unless there's a miracle change in
>attitudes and priorities, things are going to get worse overall in the
>long run.
So your advice is to what? Sit tight, do nothing which might cost
any money? Which might divert needed resources from a cradle to grave
safety net intended to lift the bottom twenty percent so that they are
above average?
> A Mars mission is a lengthy undertaking, and an underfunded
If you want to build a 'Star Ship Enterprise" and wait for the
future to get here before you start, then you are of course going to
be "underfunded."
But the technology exists right now, and there are resources
easily exploited on Mars which would enhance life on Earth. But don't
worry, those disruptions to the economy won't threaten you, if we
don't go.
dca...@krl.org
Do you have any serious suggestions about how to
> improve the situation?
>
> Wayne
Yes.
Dan
Eregon
news:hpis59$t14$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
Yahbut how do we go about getting a $10,000/word tax on BS levied upon
politicians and TV talking heads?
Concerend Citizen
Instead we pay 58 million per astronaut to have the Russians give them
a ride to the space station.
I say we sit the next couple of rounds out and let Germany or Britian
pay the 58 million for their astronauts.
Or would the Russians give them a different price?
And it wasn't all that long ago that the Russians had a helluva time
covering their end of the space station. I wonder who carried the
program forward back then?
cavelamb
Wayne, am I giving you too much credit too by replying reasonably?
cavelamb
> "
>
> Yahbut how do we go about getting a $10,000/word tax on BS levied upon
> politicians and TV talking heads?
Congressional Reform Act of 2010
1. Term Limits: 12 years only, one of the possible options below.
A. Two Six year Senate terms
B. Six Two year House terms
C. One Six year Senate term and three Two Year House terms
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
2. No Tenure / No Pension:
A congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when
they are out of office.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
3. Congress (past, present and future) participates in Social Security:
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund moves to the Social Security
system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, Congress
participates with the American people.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan just as all Americans.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
6. Congress looses their current health care system and participates in the
same health care system as the American people.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
7. Congress must equally abide in all laws they impose on the American people.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
8. All contracts with past and present congressmen are void effective 1/1/11 .
The American people did not make this contract with congressmen,
congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen
legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
cavelamb
>
>>> Also if Earth
>>> gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
>>
>> Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
>> <chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>>
>>> Priorities.
>>
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-115
Asteroid to Fly by Within Moon's Orbit Thursday
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
April 06, 2010
A newly discovered asteroid, 2010 GA6, will safely fly by Earth this
Thursday at 4:06 p.m. Pacific (23:06 U.T.C.). At time of closest
approach 2010 GA6 will be about 359,000 kilometers (223,000 miles) away
from Earth - about 9/10ths the distance to the moon. The asteroid,
approximately 22 meters (71 feet) wide, was discovered by the Catalina
Sky Survey, Tucson, Az.
"Fly bys of near-Earth objects within the moon's orbit occur every few
weeks," said Don Yeomans of NASA's Near-Earth Object Office at the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
NASA detects and tracks asteroids and comets passing close to Earth
using both ground and space-based telescopes. The Near-Earth Object
Observations Program, commonly called "Spaceguard," discovers these
objects, characterizes a subset of them and plots their orbits to
determine if any could be potentially hazardous to our planet.
JPL manages the Near-Earth Object Program Office for NASA's Science
Mission Directorate in Washington. JPL is a division of the California
Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y.,
operates the Arecibo Observatory under a cooperative agreement with the
National Science Foundation in Arlington, Va.
For more information about asteroids and near-Earth objects, visit:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroidwatch
DC Agle 818-393-9011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
ag...@jpl.nasa.gov
cavelamb
> Instead we pay 58 million per astronaut to have the Russians give them
> a ride to the space station.
>
> I say we sit the next couple of rounds out and let Germany or Britian
> pay the 58 million for their astronauts.
>
> Or would the Russians give them a different price?
>
> And it wasn't all that long ago that the Russians had a helluva time
> covering their end of the space station. I wonder who carried the
> program forward back then?
CONTRACT RELEASE: C10-023
NASA EXTENDS CONTRACT WITH RUSSIAN FEDERAL SPACE AGENCY
WASHINGTON -- NASA has signed a $335 million modification to the
current International Space Station contract with the Russian Federal
Space Agency for crew transportation, rescue and related services in
2013 and 2014.
The firm-fixed price modification covers comprehensive Soyuz support,
including all necessary training and preparation for launch, crew
rescue, and landing of a long-duration mission for six individual
station crew members.
In this contract modification, space station crew members will launch
on four Soyuz vehicles in 2013 and return on two vehicles in 2013 and
two in 2014.
Under the contract modification, the Soyuz flights will carry limited
cargo associated with crew transportation to and from the station,
and disposal of trash. The cargo allowed per person is approximately
110 pounds (50 kilograms) launched to the station, approximately 37
pounds (17 kilograms) returned to Earth, and trash disposal of
approximately 66 pounds (30 kilograms).
Bill McKee
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:inhpr5dkio92q01g6...@4ax.com...
> On 07 Apr 2010 16:41:22 GMT, steamer <ste...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
>
> "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
> not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
>
> to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
> Mars.
>
>>gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
>
> Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
> <chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>
>>Priorities.
>
>
> Wayne
How about requiring teachers to be able to teach? I am the last of the 50's
generation. Graduated HS in 1961. We had large classes, learned or were
held back. Papers were graded, and we felt bad if we got a bad grade. So
we studied harder or took easier classes. We put man on the moon, etc.
Class size is strawman in the school argument. Holding back kids and
holding parents and teachers accountable is what is required. Now there are
no shop classes and some places have a 75% dropout rate for males.
Eregon
news:47ednemfXZX41CDW...@earthlink.com:
Now all you have to do is to bribe enough elected officials to get this
passed through both houses AND get Nobama to sign it.
Good Luck! <grin>
cavelamb
>
>
> Now all you have to do is to bribe enough elected officials to get this
> passed through both houses AND get Nobama to sign it.
>
> Good Luck!<grin>
Yeah right!
If's just pure fantasy...
Michael A. Terrell
I graduated in 1970. The average class size was 36 students. Six
rows of six desks in most classrooms. Shop classes were smaller,
limited by the availible equipment and gym was about 60 to 75.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Curly Surmudgeon
If you find Gummer "funny" then you have a terribly warped sense of humor.
> Wayne
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Republican Party: Our Bridge to the 11th Century
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curly Surmudgeon
wrote:
> On Apr 7, 2:37 pm, Concerend Citizen <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>>
>> Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
>> because this isn't programming class.
>>
>>
> If you're going to be a grammar cop,
Is it possible that America has evolved to the point that a cockroach can
be a police officer?
> you probably want to learn the
> difference between parenthesis and quotation marks.for an entertaining
> and informative read on the subject I highly recommend this book:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=c3ETv37GqfcC&lpg=PP1&dq=eats%20shoots%
20and%20leaves&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> Eats, shoots, and leaves By Lynne Truss
--
pyotr filipivich
-0400 in misc.survivalism:
And that is the mindset of those who whine about how we ought to
end poverty. As if we could raise the bottom half of the population
some how above average.
There is rarely any consideration how to make a bigger pie, only
"How can we carve up this one and only pie?"
tschus
pyotr
wmbjk...@citlink.net
earthlink.net"> wrote:
>On 4/7/2010 5:41 PM, wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:54:03 -0500, cavelamb<""cavelamb\"@ X
>> earthlink.net"> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/7/2010 2:41 PM, wmbjk...@citlink.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How about we set up a Federal Department of Education, to make
>>>>> sure that all the children are above average?
>>>>
>>>> Nice job showing how much thought you've given to your opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>> Joke, Wayne.
>>>
>>> Garrison Keillor?
>>> A Prairie Home Companion ?
>>> Lake Wobegon?
>>>
>>>
>>> "where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the
>>> children are above average."
>>
>> You give him too much credit. His whole post was a joke. As is most
>> everything he cranks out.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>Wayne, am I giving you too much credit too by replying reasonably?
The guy was replying to serious suggestions with nonsense. He wasn't
trying to be funny, he thinks that dopey arguments are as good as
logic. And if he writes a thousand more posts on the subject, he won't
do any better.
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
><wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
>news:inhpr5dkio92q01g6...@4ax.com...
>> On 07 Apr 2010 16:41:22 GMT, steamer <ste...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
>>
>> "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
>> not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
>>
>> If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
>> class size? Or a guarantee that even the poorest will have good access
>> to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
>> Mars.
>>
>>> Also if Earth
>>>gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
>>
>> Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
>> <chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>>
>>>Priorities.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>How about requiring teachers to be able to teach? I am the last of the 50's
>generation. Graduated HS in 1961. We had large classes, learned or were
>held back. Papers were graded, and we felt bad if we got a bad grade. So
>we studied harder or took easier classes.
OK so far.
> We put man on the moon, etc.
Are you saying that 50's teaching put a man on the moon? Because I
always thought it had more to do with spending upwards of 1% of GDP.
>Class size is strawman in the school argument.
Nonsense. I already posted a link to disprove that notion.
> Holding back kids and
>holding parents and teachers accountable is what is required. Now there are
>no shop classes and some places have a 75% dropout rate for males.
Those things are good, but they won't make the difference by
themselves. School expenses are way up (how many metal detectors,
police, slip and falls, etc. did your school pay for?), their budgets
are squeezed well past the long-term damage threshold, and too many
voters believe that any petty complaint they can think of is a good
reason to let schools deteriorate further. Case in point.
http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=37131&TM=37724.33
Wayne
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
<snipped everything but the single half-way credible point>
> there are resources
>easily exploited on Mars which would enhance life on Earth.
Then why aren't you listing those resources and detailing their costs
and benefits? Let's cut to the chase: the main reason you're lobbying
for a big Mars mission is that you think it's a cool idea. So do I.
But that won't make it worth the cost. And if it happens, it will only
be a political diversion to encourage the deluded to keep dreaming.
Wayne
Concerend Citizen
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 12:04:53 -0700, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 7, 2:37 pm, Concerend Citizen <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>
> >> > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
> >> Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
> >> because this isn't programming class.
>
> > If you're going to be a grammar cop,
>
> Is it possible that America has evolved to the point that a cockroach can
> be a police officer?
Albert Lee Mitchell's friend Bob Brock is a police officer?
I thought he quit that and is working as a minimum wage Mall Cop 18
hours a day.
Anyway, you can stop beating up on America now because you ran away to
Argentina to take advantage of their cheap health care. Maybe you'll
come back to America when 0bamacare kicks in in 2014. Maybe sooner if
the Catholics you refer to as "CrazyMotherFuckers" figure you out.
rangerssuck
wrote:
> On Apr 7, 3:04 pm, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 7, 2:37 pm, Concerend Citizen <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>
> > > > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
> > > Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
> > > because this isn't programming class.
>
> > difference between parenthesis and quotation marks.for an entertaining
> > and informative read on the subject I highly recommend this book:
>
> > Eats, shoots, and leaves By Lynne Truss
>
> their spelling/punctuation mistakes typically embed a mistake in that
> very posting, as so often evidenced by Observer.
>
> And now, I'M GUILTY!
>
> Sorry.
>
> What of my other comments?
I disagree with far less of it than you may imagine, though it's not
nearly as simple as you lay it out to be.
Cut out paying jobs for all the illegals. Fine. Now what do you do
with them? Just let them die in the street? Let them form gangs? Clog
up the jails with them? Shoot them?
Then, who's gonna be my neighbor's landscaper with the annoying leaf
blower? Gunner the welfare case?
I do believe this is a serious problem, but I haven't heard a single
plan that makes sense from any candidate - Republican, Democrat or
other. Therefore, I don't believe that an election would move us any
closer to a solution.
I also believe in a solid space exploration program (which was the
original topic here).
rangerssuck
> "Concerend Citizen" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:017d52ec-9ed2-4a05...@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 7, 3:04 pm, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 7, 2:37 pm, Concerend Citizen <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 7, 11:09 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>
> > > > Presumably you're fully stuck on the symbolism of "success".
>
> > > Speaking of symbols, kindly put the period inside the parenthesis
> > > because this isn't programming class.
>
> > If you're going to be a grammar cop, you probably want to learn the
> > difference between parenthesis and quotation marks.for an entertaining
> > and informative read on the subject I highly recommend this book:
> >http://books.google.com/books?id=c3ETv37GqfcC&lpg=PP1&dq=eats%20shoot...
>
> > Eats, shoots, and leaves By Lynne Truss
>
> I'm fond of saying that those who stoop to making fun of others for
> their spelling/punctuation mistakes typically embed a mistake in that
> very posting, as so often evidenced by Observer.
>
> And now, I'M GUILTY!
>
> Sorry.
>
> What of my other comments?
>
> I'm sure he's in full agreement!
See my comments above. You may be surprised.
Please don't pretend to know me. I can assure you, you don't.
Buerste
<snip>
> And that is the mindset of those who whine about how we ought to
> end poverty. As if we could raise the bottom half of the population
> some how above average.
>
> There is rarely any consideration how to make a bigger pie, only
> "How can we carve up this one and only pie?"
>
> tschus
> pyotr
Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
Concerend Citizen
When school lets out and all the muni school busses become available,
have big sweeps and collect them all up. Transport them to old
military installations such as Ft Chafee, AR and process them.
Fingerprints and DNA. Run it against our criminal databases. If they
are clean, we give them a free ride back to their country of origin.
If they are not clean, we contract with their country of origin to
incarcerate them. No cush American jails for them.
> Then, who's gonna be my neighbor's landscaper with the annoying leaf
> blower? Gunner the welfare case?
Tell your neighbor to pay a fair wage or get off his fat ass and do it
himself.
> I do believe this is a serious problem, but I haven't heard a single
> plan that makes sense from any candidate - Republican, Democrat or
> other. Therefore, I don't believe that an election would move us any
> closer to a solution.
>
> I also believe in a solid space exploration program (which was the
> original topic here).
I do too. I just don't believe in America being R&D central for the
world. Industrial and military espionage has stolen so much of our
intellectual property, and then there was Clinton selling it for a few
hundred thou in campaign contributions.
Eregon
8691-544...@w24g2000vbw.googlegroups.com:
> Cut out paying jobs for all the illegals. Fine. Now what do you do
> with them? Just let them die in the street? Let them form gangs? Clog
> up the jails with them? Shoot them?
>
Ship them all to New York City.
They'll have lots of friends there and will simply merge in with them.
Otherwise, you had some good ideas but you're a bit late with them:
that's what they're ALREADY doing with them.
If you're actually as compassionate as you're trying to make yourself out
to be then why don't you get your congresscritter to submit (and vote
for) a bill to simply ship them back where they came from?
That way, the ~10,000,000 Chinese illegals could be returned to China,
another ~12,000,000 Mexicans could be returned to Mexico, and the
~100,000,000 Yankees could be returned to New England. <grin>
Michael A. Terrell
They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Concerend Citizen
wrote:
> Buerste wrote:
>
> > "pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >news:gt6rr55naemchcla7...@4ax.com...
> > <snip>
> > > And that is the mindset of those who whine about how we ought to
> > > end poverty. As if we could raise the bottom half of the population
> > > some how above average.
>
> > > There is rarely any consideration how to make a bigger pie, only
> > > "How can we carve up this one and only pie?"
>
> > > tschus
> > > pyotr
>
> > Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
>
> They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
They are "pie-challenged."
> --
> Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Lead free solder that grows wiskers?
Michael A. Terrell
Concerend Citizen wrote:
>
> On Apr 8, 8:25 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Buerste wrote:
> >
> > > "pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > >news:gt6rr55naemchcla7...@4ax.com...
> > > <snip>
> > > > And that is the mindset of those who whine about how we ought to
> > > > end poverty. As if we could raise the bottom half of the population
> > > > some how above average.
> >
> > > > There is rarely any consideration how to make a bigger pie, only
> > > > "How can we carve up this one and only pie?"
> >
> > > > tschus
> > > > pyotr
> >
> > > Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
> >
> > They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
>
> They are "pie-challenged."
As well as PI challenged...
Bill McKee
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:bpsrr5daof81ou795...@4ax.com...
You are proof that they graduate morons these days. Your link proves
nothing as to class size. Is an opinion. How about they require teachers
to be able to teach? And yes, my generation of school graduates put man on
the moon. Was not the money. We waste more money than that on Congress
theses days. And we get no bang for the buck. Did not matter how much
money you threw at the problem of space travel, required people with brains
and education to develop the equipment and calculate the trajectories.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
My last school day was in 1970. Although I did visit a bit since then
in search of part-time employees.
> Your link proves
>nothing as to class size. Is an opinion.
LOL Yeah, what a waste doing studies and analysis when they could
have simply posted the question to Usenet to get a declaration from a
60's grad.
> How about they require teachers
>to be able to teach?
What *are* those teachers doing these days? Please enlighten us.
> And yes, my generation of school graduates put man on
>the moon. Was not the money. We waste more money than that on Congress
>theses days. And we get no bang for the buck. Did not matter how much
>money you threw at the problem of space travel, required people with brains
>and education to develop the equipment and calculate the trajectories.
Why not follow your argument to its logical <chuckle> conclusion? If
only morons have graduated since your time, and money isn't the issue
with space travel, then just get a few of your fellow 60's braniacs
together to develop some equipment and trajectories, and then head
out. Don't forget to install a trunk for carrying back all the
valuable resources and bridge-eliminating secrets.
Wayne
Ed Rinehart
> On 4/8/2010 12:22 AM, Eregon wrote:
>>
>>
>> Now all you have to do is to bribe enough elected officials to get this
>> passed through both houses AND get Nobama to sign it.
>>
>> Good Luck!<grin>
>
>
> Yeah right!
>
> If's just pure fantasy...
>
>
It would take a Jeffersonian reboot.
steamer
>"Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Whatever you tax, you get less
>of."
--I like that! Actually 'we' *will* get to the Moon; by that I mean
Earthlings. They just won't be Americans. My money's on the Chinese.
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
Bill McKee
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:dohur5lpdr7pvr10u...@4ax.com...
Teachers these days, pass on all students. No holding back. No room in the
classroom, suits by the parents, and the poor student would get hurt
psychologically
Buerste
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4BBE7A4B...@earthlink.net...
<snip>
>> > > Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
>> >
>> > They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
>>
>> They are "pie-challenged."
>
>
> As well as PI challenged...
>
That's why liberuls are irrational!
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Your post is incoherent and unresponsive. Are you sure that's the best
approach considering that you're claiming to have a superior
education? Have you considered that standards might not have dropped
as much as you imagined? Do you know the penalty for PWI?
Anyway, let's see if your teachers lurned you at least one of the Rs.
If Billy eats a half-trillion apples over a period of ten years, and
has 140 million friends helping him pick apples, then how many apples
does each friend have to pick each month?
Wayne
Bill McKee
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:959vr51hlgta5h8e2...@4ax.com...
The people picking will be illegals. Simple. You think the people
graduating now are as well trained as even those in 1970? Watch a person
try to make change if you add a couple cents after he rings up the amount
tendered!
Michael A. Terrell
They just don't understand that PI can be squared! ;-)
Gunner Asch
But they are Pi-eyed
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Oh oh, looks like at least some of the class of '61, even when
equipped with the luxury of a gazillion-horsepower magic box, still
doesn't know where to start with a single-question open-book
grade-school math test. Nor were they listening when they were taught
that education is primarily a license to learn, and that one should
admit what they don't know.
> You think the people
>graduating now are as well trained as even those in 1970?
I think that some things never change. Such as the popular belief that
one can have an considered opinion without doing any considering.
> Watch a person
>try to make change if you add a couple cents after he rings up the amount
>tendered!
I noticed that problem in the 60s, and my parents had been complaining
about it long before that. Try again.
Wayne
pyotr filipivich
Citizen <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> reported Elvis on Thu, 8 Apr
2010 16:56:19 -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>
>> I do believe this is a serious problem, but I haven't heard a single
>> plan that makes sense from any candidate - Republican, Democrat or
>> other. Therefore, I don't believe that an election would move us any
>> closer to a solution.
>>
>> I also believe in a solid space exploration program (which was the
>> original topic here).
>
>I do too. I just don't believe in America being R&D central for the
>world.
I do. Let the US innovate, let the rest of the world play
catchup. Better yet, let American citizens (and residents) innovate,
and let foreign government play catch up.
> Industrial and military espionage has stolen so much of our
>intellectual property, and then there was Clinton selling it for a few
>hundred thou in campaign contributions.
that too. Cheap slut he was.
pyotr filipivich
Citizen <hot-ham-a...@hotmail.com> reported Elvis on Thu, 8 Apr
2010 16:56:19 -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>
>> blower? Gunner the welfare case?
>
>Tell your neighbor to pay a fair wage or get off his fat ass and do it
>himself.
His neighbor can do it himself, or continue to pay what the market
demands. Right now, illegal aliens depress wages across the board.
tschus
pyotr
The new subject line was inspired by a friend in college. When the
liberals found out she was a minority woman in engineering, they
invariably told her that she should be in something like social work,
so she could help "her people". Her response was "I am. I'm seeing to
it that this Indian doesn't wind up on welfare." She could be so, ..
politically incorrect at times. And the liberals had to eat it.
pyotr
Shall not be infringed
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that Concerend
> 2010 16:56:19 -0700 (PDT) in misc.survivalism:
>
>
>
> >> Then, who's gonna be my neighbor's landscaper with the annoying leaf
> >> blower? Gunner the welfare case?
>
> >Tell your neighbor to pay a fair wage or get off his fat ass and do it
> >himself.
>
> His neighbor can do it himself, or continue to pay what the market
> demands. Right now, illegal aliens depress wages across the board.
That they do. Every day in every way.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:52:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Concerend Citizen wrote:
> >>
> >> On Apr 8, 8:25 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Buerste wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > "pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >> > >news:gt6rr55naemchcla7...@4ax.com...
> >> > > <snip>
> >> > > > And that is the mindset of those who whine about how we ought to
> >> > > > end poverty. As if we could raise the bottom half of the population
> >> > > > some how above average.
> >> >
> >> > > > There is rarely any consideration how to make a bigger pie, only
> >> > > > "How can we carve up this one and only pie?"
> >> >
> >> > > > tschus
> >> > > > pyotr
> >> >
> >> > > Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
> >> >
> >> > They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
> >>
> >> They are "pie-challenged."
> >
> >
> > As well as PI challenged...
>
> But they are Pi-eyed
They get that way when confronted with any math. :(
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida