Lathe now works great...
Ignoramus30516
spent on Clausing replacement parts, the lathe drive system is working
truly great. No noise, no vibration, easy speed changes, etc etc. It
is now a pleasure to use.
The lathe might have some further problems, but as far as I can tell,
they will be minor, and it is now in a usable condition. One known
problem is that the chuck holding nut is in a bad shape. I will try to
make a replacement instead of buying it.
My last question for today is what to use to lubricate the gears in
the back (going to quick gearbox). I cleaned them with brake cleaner,
i
john
Congatulations on your finishing the repairs on the lathe. Hope it runs
a long time without problems.
A good grade of bearing grease will work fine. You need a heavier
grease that will stay on the gears.
I just got the part for my machine back after having the inside spline
EDM'ed. I could have cut it myself but the EDM does such a nice job and
you can't get it any more perfect than that. Next week I will get that
transmission back together if I can remember where all the parts go. :)
I still have to make up a couple of oddball keyways to replace the
damaged ones.
John
Ignoramus30516
> Ignoramus30516 wrote:
>> After a lot of repairs, bruised hands, ruined clothes and much $$$
>> spent on Clausing replacement parts, the lathe drive system is working
>> truly great. No noise, no vibration, easy speed changes, etc etc. It
>> is now a pleasure to use.
>>
>> The lathe might have some further problems, but as far as I can tell,
>> they will be minor, and it is now in a usable condition. One known
>> problem is that the chuck holding nut is in a bad shape. I will try to
>> make a replacement instead of buying it.
>>
>> My last question for today is what to use to lubricate the gears in
>> the back (going to quick gearbox). I cleaned them with brake cleaner,
>>
>> i
>
> Congatulations on your finishing the repairs on the lathe. Hope it runs
> a long time without problems.
>
> A good grade of bearing grease will work fine. You need a heavier
> grease that will stay on the gears.
I guess I can use that MObil 1 synthetic, the pink one?
i would like it to be some off color like that, so i can see if dirt
or chips get into it.
> I just got the part for my machine back after having the inside spline
> EDM'ed. I could have cut it myself but the EDM does such a nice job and
> you can't get it any more perfect than that. Next week I will get that
> transmission back together if I can remember where all the parts go. :)
> I still have to make up a couple of oddball keyways to replace the
> damaged ones.
way cool , some pictures would help!
i
>
> John
Wes
>
>The lathe might have some further problems, but as far as I can tell,
>they will be minor, and it is now in a usable condition. One known
>problem is that the chuck holding nut is in a bad shape. I will try to
>make a replacement instead of buying it.
What is wrong with it? Did someone bugger the pin holes around the periphery?
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Ignoramus30516
> Ignoramus30516 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30516.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>The lathe might have some further problems, but as far as I can tell,
>>they will be minor, and it is now in a usable condition. One known
>>problem is that the chuck holding nut is in a bad shape. I will try to
>>make a replacement instead of buying it.
>
> What is wrong with it? Did someone bugger the pin holes around the periphery?
>
> Wes
yep, big time
Wes
I guess I can assume you didn't get the pin spanner that is used to tighten or loosen the
nut with your lathe? Have you built one yet?
Wes
Jim Wilkins
> > What is wrong with it? Did someone bugger the pin holes around the periphery?
> > Wes
> yep, big time
The spanner pin holes on the spindle thread protector on my lathe were
worn into ramps. I fixed them inconspicuously by milling them longer.
jsw
Ignoramus30516
I have a spanner, but the lathe came without one. I think that they
used a punch and hammer to work this nut, with predictable results.
Cast iron is wrong material for this nut.
I will take it off and will look.
If I make a replacement, it will be from 1018 steel.
i
Ignoramus30516
> On Feb 20, 4:13?pm, Ignoramus30516 <ignoramus30...@NOSPAM.>> > What is wrong with it? ?Did someone bugger the pin holes around the periphery?
>> > Wes
>> yep, big time
>
> The spanner pin holes on the spindle thread protector on my lathe were
> worn into ramps. I fixed them inconspicuously by milling them longer.
The nut also has cracks on its face, which I consider to be safety
issues. I do not have a suitable round, however, and buying one costs
$50. (5x3 or so)
i
Wes
>I have a spanner, but the lathe came without one. I think that they
>used a punch and hammer to work this nut, with predictable results.
>Cast iron is wrong material for this nut.
Mine seems to be steel and shows some damage. Not too bad though.
>
>I will take it off and will look.
>
>If I make a replacement, it will be from 1018 steel.
Can you either,
1. Re-cut existing holes on bridgeport to a larger diameter.
2. Cut new standard holes using BP to original diameter offset in between old holes.
3. Remove nut from spindle, braze up holes with bronze filler and recut using BP.
Wes
Wes
>The spanner pin holes on the spindle thread protector on my lathe were
>worn into ramps. I fixed them inconspicuously by milling them longer.
I slap my head, wondering why I didn't suggest that. It is only 1/2 of the hole that is
used at any time.
Excellent solution!
Wes
Ignoramus30516
> Ignoramus30516 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30516.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I have a spanner, but the lathe came without one. I think that they
>>used a punch and hammer to work this nut, with predictable results.
>>Cast iron is wrong material for this nut.
>
> Mine seems to be steel and shows some damage. Not too bad though.
Mine is very trashed.
>>
>>I will take it off and will look.
>>
>>If I make a replacement, it will be from 1018 steel.
>
> Can you either,
>
> 1. Re-cut existing holes on bridgeport to a larger diameter.
I could, but see below.
> 2. Cut new standard holes using BP to original diameter offset in between old holes.
>
> 3. Remove nut from spindle, braze up holes with bronze filler and recut using BP.
I do not think that 3 is easy to do.
The main problem is that the face of this nut has cracks and I think
that it is unsafe as is. It wil be a great exercise to make one from
steel, the only thing is that I do not have a suitable round piece to
work with.
Igor
John
what is the size of the thread on the spindle?
John
Wes
>> Mine seems to be steel and shows some damage. Not too bad though.
>
>Mine is very trashed.
>
>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/04-Machining-A-Chuck/04-Machining-A-Chuck-0012.jpg
That is nasty.
Use this drawing someone passed on to me a few years ago. Make appropriate measurements
and deviate when required.
HTH,
Wes
Ignoramus30516
Wow, thanks. It is not as easy to make, with those internal reliefs
etc. (see near point marked 45 degrees).
What is "Unified Form Special" thread?
Anyway, my original plan was to make a steel "band" around the
existing nut. The band would have the right width and would simply
clamp the nut by means of socket head cap screw that would be
perpendicular to the radius. I can draw a picture. Seems a little
uglier, but less troublesome to make.
i
Ignoramus30516
You mean on the chucks? 3 3/4 - 6 TPI.
John
the special means that it not a commonly used thread size. The common
size for a 3 3/4 inch diameter shaft is a 4 tpi thread.
The problem you have is to have a gauge when you cut the thread. You
have to gauge it with the spindle shaft and you have you chuck mounted
to it cutting the thread. :(
If I were machine it I would just cut the minor diameter in the nut and
then with an indicator on the cross slide and then thread outward until
I got to the double depth of the desired thread, taking a couple of
spring passes at the finish. A thread pitch gauge should fit completely
across the threads with no light coming through the thread contact area.
Things to watch is that the threading tool is perfectly perpendicular
to the nut axis and that the threading tool has the right profile on it.
New brazed tools E type are not always ground right from the
factory. I ruined and expensive 22 inch dia. nut I was making because
the tool was not done right. I had to use a brazed tool because an
insert was not readily available for the pitch of the thread. After you
cut the thread take about 5 thousandths out of the bore so you don't
have problems with the nut jamming from a little dirt in the threads
when you use the nut.
John
John
I would shrink the band on and not worry about the set screw. The usual
allowance is .001 thou. per diameter inch interference fit.
John
David Billington
is hardened. Looks almost unworn and it was made in 1966. I suspect
having the correct spanner helps.
Joseph Gwinn
Ignoramus30516 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30516.invalid> wrote:
Later ones are made of aluminum. Including the one on my 5914. There
is little stress so long as the chuck is well seated on the L00 (L0?)
taper.
You should be able to buy a used ring from a parted-out 6900-series
lathe.
Is there a photo showing the worrying cracks? This may be due to using
the ring to pop the chuck off the spindle nose. The problem is that
only part of one thread engages when this is done, so the strain is very
high.
Joe Gwinn
Ignoramus15530
>
> Later ones are made of aluminum. Including the one on my 5914. There
> is little stress so long as the chuck is well seated on the L00 (L0?)
> taper.
>
> You should be able to buy a used ring from a parted-out 6900-series
> lathe.
>
> Is there a photo showing the worrying cracks? This may be due to using
> the ring to pop the chuck off the spindle nose. The problem is that
> only part of one thread engages when this is done, so the strain is very
> high.
My own forensic analysis makes me rather certain of what
happened. They used a pin and hammer to tighten and remove the
nut. That ruined the holes for the spanner and caused the face to
crack.
I do use a spanner, but I need a wood clamp to hust hold it in place
so that it does not slip.
Tge cracks are on the face of the nut due to what I mentioned in the
first paragraph.
i
john
>
>> I just got the part for my machine back after having the inside spline
>> EDM'ed. I could have cut it myself but the EDM does such a nice job and
>> you can't get it any more perfect than that. Next week I will get that
>> transmission back together if I can remember where all the parts go. :)
>> I still have to make up a couple of oddball keyways to replace the
>> damaged ones.
>
> way cool , some pictures would help!
>
> i
>>
>> John
Iggy,
Here are the pictures of the splined sleeve repair.
this picture shows the crack in the splined sleeve
http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/001.jpg
this shows the key that got sheared of and rotated 90 deg. and caused
the crack
http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/003.jpg
the top gear is the one that spun on the sleeve sheairing the keyway
http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/002.jpg
The new splined sleeve is on the left. The spline was wire EDM'ed and
the inside drop is behind the sleeve. I cheated a little and put a
standard N20 bearing nut and thread on the new sleeve. The old one was
metric and I didn't want to bother doing a metric thread.
http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/005.jpg
This is the shaft that the sleeve and gears go on to.
http://userweb.intergrafix.net/amdinc/006.jpg
I hope to make the new keys today. Several other ones got slightly
damaged too and they are all metric.
John
Ignoramus15530
i
john
> John, this is very nice, good work.
>
> i
Iggy,
Thanks for the compliment, but half of it I don't deserve.
Another shop did the wire EDM spline. I did some repair work on their
CNC machines for them in exchange.
John
DoN. Nichols
No thread on the spindle. This is a L-00 spindle nose, and it
has a loose collar with a female thread which threads onto the male
thread on the chuck backplate, with a shoulder on the spindle bearing on
a lip on the threaded collar.
The actual spindle nose is a long tape with a key mounted in it
to provide repeat orientation when mounting chucks, and prevent slipping
and spinning.
I would have to go downstairs to measure the actual thread.
O.K. 3-3/4" x 6 TPI based on a dog-driving faceplate which was
easier to handle than a full sized chuck. (Actual *measured* OD on the
thread was 3.749" using Mitutoyo digital calipers. Not really worth
digging out a 3-4" Micrometer to be more precse. :-))
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
DoN. Nichols
> On 2010-02-21, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus30516 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.30516.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> Mine seems to be steel and shows some damage. Not too bad though.
>>>
>>>Mine is very trashed.
>>>
>>>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/04-Machining-A-Chuck/04-Machining-A-Chuck-0012.jpg
>>
>> That is nasty.
>>
>> Use this drawing someone passed on to me a few years ago. Make appropriate measurements
>> and deviate when required.
>>
>> http://www.garage-machinist.com/manuals/Collets_and_tapers/L_Series/Draw_nuts_for_type_L_spindle_noses.jpg
A useful drawing -- saved and printed against future need.
> Wow, thanks. It is not as easy to make, with those internal reliefs
> etc. (see near point marked 45 degrees).
I think that the 45 degrees is not critical -- and is just
clearance for the radius between the spindle OD and the flange against
which the lib pears.
The relief there is mostly for runout when turning the threads,
and the rest is to keep dings on the edge of the threaded part of the
chuck from keeping it from seating properly. For this, you may want to
make a special HSS tool to reach in there -- perhaps a small one in a
45-degree boring bar.
> What is "Unified Form Special" thread?
"Unified" is a thread form designed to work both with UK and US
threads -- 60 degree threads, truncated crest instead of the rounded
crest of the UK threads and truncated bottom as well, instead of the
rounded bottom to clear the rounded crest on the UK threads. They were
common in the shop manual for my MGA all those years ago. They will be
easier to cut than the UK thread.
As for the "Special" part -- this combination of diameter and
thread pitch is not a "standard", which means that you won't find a tap
for it without having to spend a lot in a special order from a tap
manufacturer. But, since you are cutting the threads on a lathe, this
does not matter. Do you have a small dog-driving faceplate for the
spindle? This will make an easy test fixture which you can use without
having to remove the workpiece from the spindle.
I also notice that this as drawn has milled slots (for claw type
spanners) instead of the holes for pin type spanners which are on mine.
Don't worry -- just use a center-cutting (two flute) end mill to plunge
cut the holes to fit without hitting the threads.
> Anyway, my original plan was to make a steel "band" around the
> existing nut. The band would have the right width and would simply
> clamp the nut by means of socket head cap screw that would be
> perpendicular to the radius. I can draw a picture. Seems a little
> uglier, but less troublesome to make.
If the flange is cracking -- make a new one. If the threaded
part is cracking, you can probably get away with the reinforcing ring,
but I would prefer making a new one anyway.
It might be nice to make it of a good bronze instead of steel.
Less likely for the threads to gall and bind, not that this would be a
problem with steel chuck threads and cast iron ring.
Good Luck,
DoN. Nichols
> Ignoramus30516 wrote:
[ ... ]
>> What is "Unified Form Special" thread?
[ ... ]
> the special means that it not a commonly used thread size. The common
> size for a 3 3/4 inch diameter shaft is a 4 tpi thread.
Correct.
> The problem you have is to have a gauge when you cut the thread. You
> have to gauge it with the spindle shaft and you have you chuck mounted
> to it cutting the thread. :(
The nut is a loose collar around the spindle except when it is
pulling a chuck up tight. The male thread is on the chuck backplate
(look up "L-00 spindle nose"). So -- what he needs is a spare chuck,
chuck backplate, or dog driver faceplace (the latter is probably the
smallest) to use as a check while the workpiece is still in the chuck.
Enjoy,
Ivan Vegvary
"john" <amd...@intergrafix.net> wrote in message
news:q5WdnZIcePDg6xzW...@giganews.com...
John, nice pictures. About EDM work. What is a reasonable price cutting
(EDM) that part. Hundreds of dollars? A thousand? Did you give them a
cylinder with which to work? Did they make the entire part? I was told
that EDM is very slow. Does it take days to burn a pattern such as yours?
Just curious, thanks.
Ivan Vegvary
John
Ivan
I honestly don't know the cost as I work back and forth with that shop
all the time, I installed a bullard Vertical boring mill last month for
them including supplying all the electrical equipment.
I made the part as well as gave them a cad drawing of the spline. With
a height of about 6 inches it will cut very slowly. I think it took
about 8 hours to do the spline. I could have cut the spline on my
vertical slotter but the wire edm does a lot nicer job.
John
Ed Huntress
"John" <amd...@intergrafix.net> wrote in message
news:f6OdnVHWY_ByTRzW...@giganews.com...
Two points about wire EDM work of that type: Unless they're using a good
machine, and know what they're doing, you can get quite a bit of
non-straightness over a 6-inch span. Modern wire EDMs can cut steel at over
25 sq. in./hour but making straight cuts over that length requires multiple
passes, going slow.
It would require those passes anyway, because internal sharp corners on
those splines are going to be vulnerable to microcracks, and the part can
wind up being really weak if they just take a pass as fast as they can. If
they took 8 hours to do the job, they probably did it really right.
I don't know shop rates these days but it was $35/hour for wire work, 10
years ago, plus setup. Judge accordingly.
--
Ed Huntress