Little project: a repair part for a friend
Don Foreman
is not repairable because the plastic clip that failed is no longer
available.
Sure it is, if you know a machinist! But wait, there's more...
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/gdo_clip/
Bill Noble
washer underneath to hold it to the chain, or alternatively drill through
the link and put a screw or pin to hold it to the chain
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:p2ggq5to6vcmopqtp...@4ax.com...
Don Foreman
<nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>good idea, but there is a simpler way to attach - just add a screw and
>washer underneath to hold it to the chain, or alternatively drill through
>the link and put a screw or pin to hold it to the chain
I haven't seen the installation, it being some 800 miles from here.
Your first solution would only work if the underside of the chain is
accessable in situ. Your second solution might work if the person on
the ladder could dril thru a chain sideplate without snapping a drill
bit in the hole. You go first!
Bill Noble
of the chain.
What I have actually done in similar situations (not a garage door opener,
but similar failures) is to drill the plastic item and add some metal
reinforcement - in this case extending the ear with a small piece of wire
drilled into the plastic - you are right though if you can't see the
installation and are relying on a 'replace or discard" type repairman, you
may have limited options. Personally, I don't have a garage door on the
theory that if I am too infirm to lift my garage door, I'm also too infirm
to mess with whatever is inside.
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:5bkgq51hhved4mbsm...@4ax.com...
Don Foreman
<nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>ok, some more ideas - a small piece of spring steel that engages the edges
>of the chain.
>What I have actually done in similar situations (not a garage door opener,
>but similar failures) is to drill the plastic item and add some metal
>reinforcement - in this case extending the ear with a small piece of wire
>drilled into the plastic - you are right though if you can't see the
>installation and are relying on a 'replace or discard" type repairman, you
>may have limited options. Personally, I don't have a garage door on the
>theory that if I am too infirm to lift my garage door, I'm also too infirm
>to mess with whatever is inside.
You don't have a garage door for fear that you might be too infirm to
lift it and use whatever is housed within? A properly balanced garage
door can be lifted with one finger by a dainty and comely lass.
Your posited solutions may well be brilliant, we'll never know unless
you make them and demonstrate. I'll stay tuned for that.
I'm old school. I back up my words and imaginations with metal that
works.
Karl Townsend
> I'm old school. I back up my words and imaginations with metal that
> works.
That's some pretty fancy design software for an old school engineer. All my
work is on quadrangle paper with a pencil. (mechanical .7 , the .5s break,
larger ones are smudgy) Of course, my best work was on a napkin at coffee
break with a millwright and a machinist.
I have succumbed to an old copy of AutoCAD for complex parts, but not
willingly. I'm curious, what software did you use?
Karl
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
That is a very nice solution.
Careful, though, lest it gets out of hand. For instance my neighbor
needs a starter shaft for his Shovelhead. I didn't do my surface
grinder any good by regrinding a chipped carbide wood shaper bit on it
for another friend.
jsw
Bob Engelhardt
leaving well enough alone, you do yourself better with a new design!
[Clap, clap, whistle, ...]
I can see that you're well up on the learning curve of the CAD software
<G>. A beginner would have spent HOURS making the "drawing". Or, maybe
you are a beginner & did spend hours on it (?).
To make installation "... whilst hanging upside down from a rope in a
howling gale by flashlight ..." easier, you could use something larger
than a 4-40 setscrew. They're pretty easy to lose.
I think it could be a _little_ simpler by not having the middle tooth.
I think the plastic one might need it, but not the ally one. Doesn't
hurt, though.
Nice write up, too.
Thanks for sharing,
Bob
Jon Anderson
> Sure it is, if you know a machinist! But wait, there's more...
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/gdo_clip/
Nicely done! If you're interested in the project for some side income,
there's probably a small market. I know in fact there is a market for
replacement parts for stuff like this, just can't quite figure out how
to reach those that need the diverse parts.
Some time back I was searching for some obscure hardware when I stumbled
across a web site that had probably a couple hundred odd fittings and
special screws, mostly relating to obscure and decidedly vintage
carburetors back to nearly the dawn of the automobile. Guy had spent a
fair bit of time coming up with that list of parts and probably is close
to, if not in fact, a world leader in supplying these parts.
A significant portion of my income derives from making replacement parts
for light rail. Rarely have the luxury of a drawing, often have to work
from broken or worn parts. OEM parts are either too expensive, have
wicked long lead times, or are just not available anymore. I just made 5
parts out of solid aluminum, 2" thick, 9.5" dia, 5" center hole, lots of
detail work. End user was quoted -12 months- for replacement parts.
Hell, I could have built a foundry, learned pattern making, cast 5
pieces in my back yard, machined and delivered in less time! While
machining was expensive, they had parts in less than 3 weeks.
My customer knows the industry and is my gateway, but there's got to be
a need for small lot parts in many other fields....
Jon
Don Foreman
Don Foreman
<bobeng...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Oh, that's cool! The plastic one is work to be proud of, but not
>leaving well enough alone, you do yourself better with a new design!
>[Clap, clap, whistle, ...]
>
>I can see that you're well up on the learning curve of the CAD software
><G>. A beginner would have spent HOURS making the "drawing". Or, maybe
>you are a beginner & did spend hours on it (?).
Yup. Part of the fun. If I don't use it once in a while I'll forget
how to do it.
Pete C.
TurboCAD here.
RBnDFW
You're tough!
I waded into TurboCAD twice, learning curb too steep for me.
Don Foreman
<karltown...@embarqmail.com> wrote:
I've used AutoCAD for many years. I regard it as an essential shop
tool. I don't use CAD software on every project. Sometimes I just
make a sketch on a quadrule pad, sometimes I don't even do that. But
sometimes CAD's ability to sort out geometry and give dimensions is
very useful. Example: on the clip, I needed to determine the radius
of the curved part from two measurements: width and height of the
broken part. I could figure out how to do that with geometry, trig
and a calculator, but AutoCAD makes it very easy because it can draw a
circle defined by 3 points. Dimension the circle to get the radius,
done.
AutoCAD in 3D, however, is a freakin' nightmare.
Alibre is a parametric solid modeller, like SolidWorks and ProE, at an
affordable price. I can see why a professional might want the "real
thing" but Alibre does what I want to do in my home shop. It's
particularly useful for projects that have a number of parts,
including moving parts, that must fit together.
Pete C.
For the little bit I do it isn't too bad.
Wes
>>I have succumbed to an old copy of AutoCAD for complex parts, but not
>>willingly. I'm curious, what software did you use?
>>
>>Karl
>
>Alibre design. $99 on sale.
>http://www.alibre.com/
A steal at 99 bucks. I need to renew maintenance and possibly upgrade in a few weeks.
Oh, and nice write up on your project. I enjoyed reading it over coffee and oatmeal this
morning.
Wes
Brian Lawson
Hey Don,
Neat-o stuff from you, as usual. Very good.
We used a similar "ramp" for limit switches, but not on chain. The
principle we had might work here though. Looking at the project that
you "designed", if you were to make a single piece that had a full end
and the rest being half thickness for the remainder, you could place
two very easily in a back-to-back pair to make a "whole", including
the middle tooth. I suspect that on the original, that middle tooth
took all the drive forces, minimal as they might be, so then very
necessary.
As this is a fixed length, you might even make it with a hole and a
pin in the piece, such that when placed back-to-back, the pin in one
locates in the hole on the other, and that would allow placement and
locking without screws while up on the ladder. Just snap in place,
but the force to do so would be sideways rather than along the chain
length as you assume the original is placed.
Our application had the ramp pieces mounted on a slotted rail, and the
ramp could be "extended" for adjustment as the micro-switch rode fully
over it, and it was the ramped-up distance that was critical. The
pieces were identical, same "hand" and all, but when placed looked
very much like what your pix and then you sketch showed.
Take care. Keep up the good work and simple ideas you come up with.
I'm sure I speak for many if not most of us here on RCM to say that we
enjoy them a lot, and always the story and/or detail that comes with
them!!
Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
ps... I don't know if Mike Rehmus (Model Engine Builder magazine
publisher) will once again be doing a Seminar at NAMES 2010 in
Southgate, Michigan, next month (April 24 & 25), but at NAMES 2009 if
you did attend his presentation, you got a free copy of the base
Alibre program. Good deal !! Makes the price of admission seem
petty.
Karl Townsend
...
> I've used AutoCAD for many years. I regard it as an essential shop
> tool. I don't use CAD software on every project. Sometimes I just
> make a sketch on a quadrule pad, sometimes I don't even do that. But
> sometimes CAD's ability to sort out geometry and give dimensions is
> very useful. Example: on the clip, I needed to determine the radius
> of the curved part from two measurements: width and height of the
> broken part. I could figure out how to do that with geometry, trig
> and a calculator, but AutoCAD makes it very easy because it can draw a
> circle defined by 3 points. Dimension the circle to get the radius,
> done.
I must be older school than you. I would have fit that arc with a compass
faster than you could walk to your office and turn the 'puter on.
I do agree, AutoCAD is a necessary tool for complex parts. I may just buy
Alibre for my spare time project next fishin' season. About eight years ago,
I spent all my spare time from fishin' learning autoCAD.
Karl
Wes
>ps... I don't know if Mike Rehmus (Model Engine Builder magazine
>publisher) will once again be doing a Seminar at NAMES 2010 in
>Southgate, Michigan, next month (April 24 & 25), but at NAMES 2009 if
>you did attend his presentation, you got a free copy of the base
>Alibre program. Good deal !! Makes the price of admission seem
>petty.
Mike Rehmus has the 10:00 AM slot on Saturday if I can trust what was posted recently.
His demonstration last year is what made me pony up $913.00 back when it wasn't heavily
discounted for the starter version with maintenace.
I subscribe to MEB, he makes Alibre go though it's paces on the enclosed drawing sheets.
His seminar is well worth seeing, I plan to see it again this year since I bet he has
learned more and I know I sure have. Should be a great seminar.
Wes
dan
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:13:15 -0700:
>"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
>news:p2ggq5to6vcmopqtp...@4ax.com...
>> A high school classmate was told her old Crawford garage door opener
>> is not repairable because the plastic clip that failed is no longer
>> available.
>>
>> Sure it is, if you know a machinist! But wait, there's more...
>> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/gdo_clip/
>>
>>
>>
>good idea, but there is a simpler way to attach - just add a screw and
>washer underneath to hold it to the chain, or alternatively drill through
>the link and put a screw or pin to hold it to the chain
>
Heck with that. Just clean off the oil and wrap a lump of duct tape
around it.
--
Dan H.
northshore MA.
Larry Jaques
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:
Kudos, sir.
Too bad you don't have a CNC mill. You could whip out 100 of them and
sell/trade them for new toys, while making 100 people very happy.
P.S: $95 to spend 1 minute on a ladder, then show and tell the lady
what's wrong? I'm in the wrong business.
--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler
Don Foreman
<karltown...@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>...
>> I've used AutoCAD for many years. I regard it as an essential shop
>> tool. I don't use CAD software on every project. Sometimes I just
>> make a sketch on a quadrule pad, sometimes I don't even do that. But
>> sometimes CAD's ability to sort out geometry and give dimensions is
>> very useful. Example: on the clip, I needed to determine the radius
>> of the curved part from two measurements: width and height of the
>> broken part. I could figure out how to do that with geometry, trig
>> and a calculator, but AutoCAD makes it very easy because it can draw a
>> circle defined by 3 points. Dimension the circle to get the radius,
>> done.
>...
>
>I must be older school than you. I would have fit that arc with a compass
>faster than you could walk to your office and turn the 'puter on.
The puter is in the shop and it's always on. <G>
Don Foreman
Truth be told, using Alibre for this little pissant project was a bit
of overkill, not really necessary at all. But I find using Alibre
kinda fun, and if I don't use tools like that once in a while I start
to forget how to use them. Where Alibre really shines is when
designing something with quite a few parts that need to fit together
and work together. It's good for playing "what if" because it's a
parametric solid modeller. You can change a dimension in a part
that's in an assembly, and everything in that assembly affected by
that dimension will change in response. When you get your model to
your satisfaction, it can then generate dimensioned drawings of every
part and assembly. If you later change a dimension in a part, all of
the drawings of that part and assemblies affected by that part will be
changed accordingly. I think it can also produce output compatible
with some CNC systems but I don't really know anything about that.
I once attended a free seminar hosted by the local SolidWorks dealer.
I have to say that Alibre is not in the same class as SolidWorks, but
SolidWorks is way beyond my play budget at several grand a seat with
annual maintenance not optional -- ya gotta pay to play. Alibre does
about everything I want to do, albeit not always quite as easily as
SolidWorks, and its price was commeasurate with its value to me.
Wes
>P.S: $95 to spend 1 minute on a ladder, then show and tell the lady
>what's wrong? I'm in the wrong business.
You didn't consider the 30 minutes drive time to spend that minute on the ladder.
Wes
Bob Engelhardt
... if you were to make a single piece that had a full end
> and the rest being half thickness for the remainder, you could place
> two very easily in a back-to-back pair to make a "whole", including
That's sweet! Ultimate KISS. Bob
Larry Jaques
<clu...@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
$190/hr beats $30/hr in my book. Yours? ;)
Don Foreman
More like 8 minutes according to Google Maps.
Wes
Cool! Then he better honor his word when she tells him she has your replacement part in
hand.
Wes
Don Foreman
<law...@ciaccess.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:22:16 -0500, Don Foreman
><dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>A high school classmate was told her old Crawford garage door opener
>>is not repairable because the plastic clip that failed is no longer
>>available.
>>
>>Sure it is, if you know a machinist! But wait, there's more...
>>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/gdo_clip/
>>
>>
>Hey Don,
>
>Neat-o stuff from you, as usual. Very good.
>
>We used a similar "ramp" for limit switches, but not on chain. The
>principle we had might work here though. Looking at the project that
>you "designed", if you were to make a single piece that had a full end
>and the rest being half thickness for the remainder, you could place
>two very easily in a back-to-back pair to make a "whole", including
>the middle tooth. I suspect that on the original, that middle tooth
>took all the drive forces, minimal as they might be, so then very
>necessary.
I tried to model what I think you said. I skipped the crescent part.
Is this the idea?
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/brianscheme/
That's more trouble to make than my scheme because I'd have to make
two hook parts, but I think it's a better scheme. With my scheme I
only made one hook part and then cut it to make the two parts. With
your scheme, engagement of the hooks is guaranteed by the geometry and
that's very easy to get right because the key features start as .3125"
holes drilled .500" apart.
>As this is a fixed length, you might even make it with a hole and a
>pin in the piece, such that when placed back-to-back, the pin in one
>locates in the hole on the other, and that would allow placement and
>locking without screws while up on the ladder. Just snap in place,
>but the force to do so would be sideways rather than along the chain
>length as you assume the original is placed.
That doesn't quite work, but the screw is not a problem atop the
ladder because it's captive in one of the parts before they leave the
floor.
Karl Townsend
> I tried to model what I think you said. I skipped the crescent part.
> Is this the idea?
> http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/brianscheme/
>
> That's more trouble to make than my scheme because I'd have to make
> two hook parts, but I think it's a better scheme. With my scheme I
> only made one hook part and then cut it to make the two parts. With
> your scheme, engagement of the hooks is guaranteed by the geometry and
> that's very easy to get right because the key features start as .3125"
> holes drilled .500" apart.
move the parting line to the center and near one end. Now the pieces on each
side are identical. Only one part to make. Send the design to "the Kid".
He'll send a CNC ready program to me. We can knock out a few hundred and you
can start a business. Your business will be low profit so you should
qualify for some sort of subsidy and make millions. But then the kid and I
will want you to provide Obama health insurance and you'll be broke.
Karl
Don Foreman
The pieces are already identical. I entered the same part twice into
the assembly, flipped one to get it oriented correctly.
Brian Lawson
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
BIG SNIP
>I tried to model what I think you said. I skipped the crescent part.
>Is this the idea?
>http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/brianscheme/
>
MORE SNIP
Hey Don,
Zackly!!!
Brian Lawson