Train wreck . . .
Robert Swinney
Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final scene was of the broken-off
rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the front half. Normally,
when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are applied to both portions.
Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to prevent a reconnect disaster like
that one.
Bob Swinney
Robert Swinney
"Robert Swinney" <jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message news:...
Ignoramus29334
> Sorry. try: www.tornado1.wmv
that's a bad address
William Wixon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFe0846RgWc
(my second father was a locomotive engineer.)
b.w.
"Robert Swinney" <jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:e_adnaW0Z4h95wfW...@giganews.com...
Robert Swinney
Try opening on the included icon that appears just before Tornado1.wmv.
Computers are like dogs, in that they smell my fear. Touble is; I can't kick the Hell out of them.
Bob Swinney
Tim Wescott
(top posting fixed)
> "Robert Swinney" <jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:e_adnaW0Z4h95wfW...@giganews.com...
>> www.tornado1.wmv
>>
>> Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final
>> scene was of the broken-off
>> rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the
>> front half. Normally,
>> when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are applied
>> to both portions.
>> Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to prevent
>> a reconnect disaster like
>> that one.
>>
>> Bob Swinney
>>
>
>
> that's horrifying. awesome (in the original definition).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFe0846RgWc
>
> (my second father was a locomotive engineer.)
>
> b.w.
>
>
Also awful (in the original definition). I assume it's the same one I
saw a month or so ago -- I cringed enough when I saw it, don't need to
see it again!!
A search on 'Westinghouse Brakes' should cough up some interesting
tidbits. The pneumatic brake technology used in trains is over 100
years old. It's functional, but it has some severe drawbacks. There
are way better ways* to stop a train now, but inter-railway politics,
inertia and what not** have kept them from being adopted.
* Brake by wire! Just like Toyota***!
** Union-railway politics...
*** Oh, wait...
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Ignoramus29334
You most certainly can kick them.
Just tell us the website that led you to this movie
i
Bob Engelhardt
> that's horrifying. awesome (in the original definition).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFe0846RgWc
>
> (my second father was a locomotive engineer.)
>
> b.w.
>
This one has edited down to the interesting part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYubpuIe3cw&NR=1
Bob
Robert Swinney
It came to me as an attachment. I had no way of knowing its origin. I was trying to avoid passing
an attachment on to RCM.
Bob Swinney
"Ignoramus29334" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29334.invalid> wrote in message
news:m82dnYZKTre4GQfW...@giganews.com...
Steve B
I am not a railroad person, and I appreciated it. What can it mean?
Steve ;-)
Steve B
I can see the sparks from something on the rearward section's leading car.
May be braking of the front car. But, like you, I thought that when the air
was disconnected, that everything automatically braked. If the rearward
section's cars all braked individually, I don't think it would have been
pushing that front tank car like it was. I was expecting an explosion when
the tanker hit. Some pretty incredible footage, nonetheless. Just like
everything else, there can be malfunctions, or piss poor mechanics.
Steve
Greg O
My bet the brakes applied just fine, but the veiw is rearward from the
locomotive, (or set of locos), which stopped right away as it just had it's
own momentum to stop, where the rest of the train had perhaps a mile of cars
to stop, and that is not going to stop quickly!
Martin H. Eastburn
on the track so the wheels were not true - making the
brakes in that truck non-functional.
The train might have been in the push-pull mode - a push
train driving the cars towards the lead engine.
The electrical cables to that car would have been lost -
one would assume it would stop - but perhaps it decoupled
as well...
Would be nice to read the final report.
Martin
Steve B
"Greg O" <goo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6uFmn.40198$rq1....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Don't forget the locomotive has dynamic braking, which is some sort of
electric talk for reducing the power to the motors, which slows them down
electrically, and not with friction.
Steve
Ignoramus4212
Electric braking uses motors as generators, and dumps the energy into
big resistors.
Regenerative braking is only available on electrified railroads. It
also uses the motors as generators, but instead of just dumping elergy
into resistors, it returns them into the railroad's power system via
overhead cable.
i
co_f...@yahoo.com
> "Greg O" <goo1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6uFmn.40198$rq1....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Robert Swinney" <judy...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:e_adnaW0Z4h95wfW...@giganews.com...
> >>www.tornado1.wmv
>
> >> Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final
> >> scene was of the broken-off
> >> rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the
> >> front half. Normally,
> >> when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are
> >> applied to both portions.
> >> Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to
> >> prevent a reconnect disaster like
> >> that one.
>
> >> Bob Swinney
>
> > My bet the brakes applied just fine, but the veiw is rearward from the
> > locomotive, (or set of locos), which stopped right away as it just had
> > it's own momentum to stop, where the rest of the train had perhaps a mile
> > of cars to stop, and that is not going to stop quickly!
>
> Don't forget the locomotive has dynamic braking, which is some sort of
> electric talk for reducing the power to the motors, which slows them down
> electrically, and not with friction.
>
> Steve
Brakes on trains operate just like air brakes on trucks. The air holds
the brakes off. Lowering the air pressure begins to apply the brakes.
Each car has it's own compressed air tank holding perhaps 20-30
gallons of air. The air piping on a rr car is about 3/4 inch, as I
recall from many years ago. We lived near a RR track and I walked to
school past a cannery with many cars on the siding. I loved to watch
the old steam engine in operation, shuffeling the cars.
That is an awful lot of air to be released from a single coupling
hose, which is a 2 inch hose. Takes a long time to release the air,
which is why it takes a long time to stop a moving train. All the
stored air has to come out the engine end of the train.
Train watchers will remember occasions where the engineer gets in a
hurry to start a train and begins to pull before the air pressure has
reached the last car. You will hear a moving "BANG" go the entire
length of the train as the couplings are stretched from one car to the
next. If the brakes are all released before pulling, you won't hear a
thing, just see the movement transfer from car to car.
The opposite operation has to take place before a train can stop. The
brake air is bled off as the engine speed is reduced. This has the
effect of closing all the coupling slack on all the train cars. Once
this is done, the engineer can really begin to stop the engine with
it's brakes. and the trains braking will continue to increase,
beginning with the car right behind the engine.
Those train watchers who see the trains in Europe will remember the
couplings are totally different from the US. There they are held
together by a screw-together central coupling and have two spring
loaded bumpers to keep the screw coupling fairly tight. They don't
have the long start an stop time that the US and all trains in the
Americas have.
Hope this helps explain the video a little bit.
Paul
Robert Swinney
resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
Bob Swinney
"Ignoramus4212" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
news:b_CdnVwcG8esXgbW...@giganews.com...
Ignoramus4212
> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
What you are describing is not regenerative braking.
i
Robert Swinney
RR air brakes are applied by sensing (brake control) valves in each car. As the engineer calls for
breaking he makes a "brake pipe reduction" in train line air of a graduated amount of psi. The
reduction within the entre brake line is felt simultaneously in each car causing the brake control
valves to move an equivalent amount.
In turn the brake valves release a corresponding amount of air from double ended reservoirs which go
to brake cylinders. To effect more braking, more train line pressure is reduced. Loco engineers
speak of this as so many pounds of braking. One of the down sides of this (Westinghouse AB system)
is that in order to release brakes, the train line pressure must be restored via main air reservoir
in the loco.
Slack action in long trains, particularly exacerbated by hilly terrain is a frequent cause of
drawbars and coupler breakage. Depending on train length and other conditions, going to "Big Hole"
full emergency stop can be a dangerous thing. Literally, the brakes have to be "pumped off" before
a train can be moved.
Bob Swinney
inet.com" <co_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0cce0d25-edf0-492f...@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Robert Swinney
What part of regenerative do you not understand?
Bob Swinney
"Ignoramus4212" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
news:vu-dncvNXafgSwbW...@giganews.com...
Ignoramus4212
> Iggy,
>
> What part of regenerative do you not understand?
Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_braking
A regenerative brake is an energy recovery mechanism that reduces
vehicle speed by converting some of its kinetic energy and/or
potential energy (due to elevation) into a useful form of energy
instead of dissipating it as heat as in a conventional brake. The
converted kinetic energy is stored for future use or fed back into a
power system for use by other vehicles.
Electrical regenerative brakes in electric railway feed the generated
electricity back into the supply system. In battery electric and
hybrid electric vehicles the energy is stored in a battery or bank of
capacitors for later use. Energy may also be stored by compressing air
or by a rotating flywheel.
Regenerative braking is not the same as dynamic braking, which
dissipates the electrical energy as heat and does not maintain energy
in a usable form.
Ignoramus4212
> Iggy,
>
> What part of regenerative do you not understand?
See my other post with the link to Wikipedia.
What you described is called dynamic braking, not regenerative.
Robert Swinney
I bow to your stand on semantics.
Bob Swinney
"Ignoramus4212" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
news:IdidnUhv89OHfAbW...@giganews.com...
Steve B
"Ignoramus4212" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
news:b_CdnVwcG8esXgbW...@giganews.com...
I watched a specials on trains, and they used Electromotive Diesels to power
electric motors on the wheels. They said during that time they used dynamic
braking.
Steve
co_f...@yahoo.com
> Some good stuff, Paul, but no cigar.
>
> RR air brakes are applied by sensing (brake control) valves in each car. As the engineer calls for
> breaking he makes a "brake pipe reduction" in train line air of a graduated amount of psi. The
> reduction within the entre brake line is felt simultaneously in each car causing the brake control
> valves to move an equivalent amount.
> In turn the brake valves release a corresponding amount of air from double ended reservoirs which go
> to brake cylinders. To effect more braking, more train line pressure is reduced. Loco engineers
> speak of this as so many pounds of braking. One of the down sides of this (Westinghouse AB system)
> is that in order to release brakes, the train line pressure must be restored via main air reservoir
> in the loco.
>
> Slack action in long trains, particularly exacerbated by hilly terrain is a frequent cause of
> drawbars and coupler breakage. Depending on train length and other conditions, going to "Big Hole"
> full emergency stop can be a dangerous thing. Literally, the brakes have to be "pumped off" before
> a train can be moved.
>
> Bob Swinney
>
>
> news:0cce0d25-edf0-492f...@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 13, 8:26 am, "Steve B" <deserttra...@fishymail.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Greg O" <goo1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:6uFmn.40198$rq1....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> > > "Robert Swinney" <judy...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
> > >news:e_adnaW0Z4h95wfW...@giganews.com...
> > >>www.tornado1.wmv
>
> > >> Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final
> > >> scene was of the broken-off
> > >> rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the
> > >> front half. Normally,
> > >> when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are
> > >> applied to both portions.
> > >> Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to
> > >> prevent a reconnect disaster like
> > >> that one.
>
> > >> Bob Swinney
>
That does explain a lot of what I have observed.
The older son of my sister-in-law's neighbor is a train engineer for
the local railroad. He went through many months of class room and on-
job training before he could drive a train. A lot more complicated
than shown in the movies!
Paul
Jon Elson
are off the track! If you look down below the
tank car, the sparks seem to indicate at least
several cars of the rear portion have derailed.
Jon
Jon Elson
> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
locos. The Diesel radiators are the front 1/3 or
so, the back 2/3ds are the braking resistor array.
When you hear a loco pass and there is a loud
humming whir, that is mostly the fans on the
braking resistor grid. Our house is a mile from
the track, and those fans are the first thing I
hear coming, and I can hear them for quite some
time as the train passes.
Jon
Jon Elson
> On 2010-03-13, Robert Swinney <jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
>> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
>> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
>
> What you are describing is not regenerative braking.
means returning kinetic energy to form that is
then used by other vehicles, then no. If it means
turning kinetic energy into electrical energy,
then it is. Some locos now have flywheels or
ultracapacitor banks, but I suspect that is more
on passenger rail systems than freight.
Jon
Robert Swinney
electric motors on the wheels. They said during that time they used dynamic
braking."
AFAIK, most EMDs still operate that way. There are (were ?) some diesel-over-hydraulic locos but
they are way out of my sphere of knowledge. In an EMD, Diesel engines drive generators which supply
power for traction motors on the axels. "Transmission effect" is done by changing the connectivity
scheme between the generators and traction motors. Large contactors are involved. When undergoing
transition, as it is called, it sounds to a bystander like the engine is shifting gears.
Bob Swinney
"Steve B" <desert...@fishymail.net> wrote in message news:l07t67-...@news.infowest.com...
Steve
Robert Swinney
Robert Swinney
are off the track! If you look down below the
tank car, the sparks seem to indicate at least
several cars of the rear portion have derailed."
Right Jon. And they don't work all that well with everything in its place, either. I've heard it
said that "a mile long freight train, at speed, can't stop in it's own length"
Bob Swinney
"Jon Elson" <el...@pico-systems.com> wrote in message
news:ZI-dneLbWNarvwHW...@giganews.com...
Robert Swinney wrote:
> www.tornado1.wmv
>
> Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final scene was of the broken-off
> rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the front half. Normally,
> when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are applied to both portions.
> Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to prevent a reconnect disaster
> like
> that one.
Jon
Robert Swinney
"When you hear a loco pass and there is a loud
humming whir, that is mostly the fans on the
braking resistor grid."
Not only braking resistors, Jon. In an EMD, most all electrical "heat" is removed by fans. The
traction motors have blowers, as well.
Once, I was privileged to watch load testing of brand new EMDs. All fan loads, traction motors,
etc. (Majority of electrical load) was disconnected from the main generators. The entire output of
the generators was fed to a massive bank of resistors. You can imagine 2000 - 4000 HP of heat. As
I recall, the resistor bank cooling was from huge fans, which were part of the electrical load. HP
was calculated by voltage x current from the generators.
Bob Swinney
"Jon Elson" <el...@pico-systems.com> wrote in message
news:Ne2dndGcPfVevgHW...@giganews.com...
Robert Swinney wrote:
> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
Actually it is most of the roof of main line
locos. The Diesel radiators are the front 1/3 or
so, the back 2/3ds are the braking resistor array.
Martin H. Eastburn
The brakes are not all that good to stop a train they just can't handle the
energy delivered upon demand.
That is why a number of people get run over in crossings - thinking the train
can stop. They will stop and back up.
Trains often have rear end pusher trains if on grades. The lead train
electronically controls it.
I know a SP train master and see him most days.
Martin
Ignoramus4212
> Steve sez: "I watched a specials on trains, and they used Electromotive Diesels to power
> electric motors on the wheels. They said during that time they used dynamic
> braking."
>
> AFAIK, most EMDs still operate that way. There are (were ?) some diesel-over-hydraulic locos but
> they are way out of my sphere of knowledge. In an EMD, Diesel engines drive generators which supply
> power for traction motors on the axels. "Transmission effect" is done by changing the connectivity
> scheme between the generators and traction motors. Large contactors are involved. When undergoing
> transition, as it is called, it sounds to a bystander like the engine is shifting gears.
Russian electric locomotives VL-80 use 12 kilos of silver in each
locomotive, for the transformer tap changer. I have no idea how they
keep that silver from being stolen.
i
Steve B
"Ignoramus4212" <ignora...@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
Fear of vacationing at the Gulag Peninsula in the winter?
Steve
Ignoramus27323
Considering how many other things that ends up stolen there, it has to
be something else.
Robert Swinney
"Fear of vacationing at the Gulag Peninsula in the winter?"
Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't let the ME terrorists
types know about that particular route to martyrdom. It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins;
depending on which part of their anatomy they touched first.
Bob Swinney
"Steve B" <desert...@fishymail.net> wrote in message news:md7v67-...@news.infowest.com...
Steve
Steve B
With my luck, the 72 of them would all look like Hillary Clinton. Enough to
make one consider celibacy.
Steve
Greg O
"pdr...@coinet.com" <co_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5f0bab29-de80-4549...@v34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>The older son of my sister-in-law's neighbor is a train engineer for
>the local railroad. He went through many months of class room and on-
>job training before he could drive a train. A lot more complicated
>than shown in the movies!
>Paul
My dad worked for the Soo, (Soo Line fo the old timers here!), for over 40
years. He started on the section crew, repairing rail, and ended up as a
conductor at the end. I was fortunate as a child to go on the "road" with
him from time to time, long before all the rules and regs took over. I
remember a few times getting to run a train down the tracks. Yep! A scrawny
ten year old kid, sitting in the engineer's seat running the speeds and
braking on a mile long train! Of course the engineer was looking over my
shoulder giving me recommendations on speeds and braking. It is quite a
juggling act maintaining speed in hilly country, I never got the hang of it!
You need to anticipate when the bulk of the train is coming over the hill
top and heading down the grade and reduce speed accordingly. Also the same
for going up a grade and trying to figure out when to increase the speed
selector to maintain speed. I was always over or under the recommended speed
for the track, never did figure out the seee-saw!
Greg O
Michael A. Terrell
Steve B wrote:
>
> Robert Swinney wrote:
> >
> > Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't
> > let the ME terrorists types know about that particular route to martyrdom.
> > It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins; depending on which part of
> > their anatomy they touched first.
>
> make one consider celibacy.
That would explain why they were virgins...
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Steve B
"Greg O" <goo...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> My dad worked for the Soo, (Soo Line fo the old timers here!), for over 40
> years. He started on the section crew, repairing rail, and ended up as a
> conductor at the end. I was fortunate as a child to go on the "road" with
> him from time to time, long before all the rules and regs took over.
A lady I know who is about 65 tells stories of her dad who worked on the
railroad in Louisiana. The kids and mom used to get to come with him
sometimes, staying in the bunk cars. They were taught to hide when any
other train passed. But they did get to go visit Dad, then caught a freight
or passenger train back home to Oklahoma, IIRC. Ah, the good old days
before all the rules and regs.
How did we all ever live through them before all this protection?
Steve
Ignoramus27323
What they would do with diesel locomotives, is use the traction motors
as generators, and dump energy into big resistor grids. Those were
mushroom shaped things on the roof of the engine, with big fans
cooling them as they would take heat out of the resistors. The beauty
of this method is that there is no wear of brakes or other mechanical
pieces during braking.
Some new railyard switchers, like "Green Goat", work like Toyota Prius
and charge battery banks during braking, instead of just heating
resistors. Probably save the railroad a bundle of money on fuel, as
switchers do not need a lot of continuous power, and they need to
start and stop all the time.
On electrified railroads, the energy from braking can be returned to
power lines to help run other trains.
i
William Wixon
my second father was an engineer for new haven/penn central/conrail. as far
as i know he worked his way up the ladder also to become an engineer. i
never got to operate an engine but i got to go inside an engine a few times,
i think i got a ride in the yard once too, got to toot the whistle
(lol)(late 70's). what wonderful memories (that well worn machine/diesel
smelling cab/controls). oh, and i got a ride in a caboose once too, wee!
(i have a vague memory that was a LONG ride, tens of miles). those guys
were real men's men (like apparently many of you guys here on this list).
as kids we hung out (as much as we could/were allowed to) at the rail yard
in maybrook ny (which, *VERY* sadly no longer exists).
one time, a few years after he died, i was in grand central terminal in new
york, was the early 80's. was with my then girlfriend. we were about to
board the train and i said to her "let's go say hi to the engineer". we
did. i yelled up to him asking him if he knew my father. he said "yeah, he
taught me everything i know" (which i kinda assumed he was just being
polite). he told us to come on up and in the engine. he let us ride in the
engine from grand central to white plains (i'm sure he could've gotten in
trouble). it was a BLAST. i remembered this story recently because of the
recent incident with the air traffic controller allowing his kid(s) to talk
over the radio. my belief is, things like that weren't such a big effin'
deal in the 70's. it was prolly unwise for the air traffic controller to do
so, but prolly in the 70's it wouldn't've made international news. if his
boss found out he probably would've gotten a reprimand and that's it. i'm
sure there's NO WAY an engineer would allow someone from "off the street"
ride in a commuter passenger train engine nowadays. lol.
b.w.
co_f...@yahoo.com
27323.invalid> wrote:
>
> On electrified railroads, the energy from braking can be returned to
> power lines to help run other trains.
>
> i
In the early part of the 20th century the Great Northern, I think it
was, ran two tracks from East of Stevens Pass to Everett Washington.
They used electric locomotives on that part of the track. A West-bound
train would wait at the tunnel until an East-bound train was ready to
begin ascending the mountain pass. Then the train going down the
mountain would generate power to help move the train going up the
mountain.
I suspect the Diesel-electric locomotive became powerful enough and
cheap enough to put the electrics out of business.
Paul
danmitch
The Great Norther Railway's electrification in Washington state extended
only 73 miles from Wenatchee (east slope) to Skykomish (west slope) of
Steven's Pass in the Cascade Mountains. The electrification was never
extended to the coast.
The reason or the elctrifcation was to allow trains to pass through
"Cascade Tunnel", some two miles long, at the summit of the Cascades.
While it proved possible to run steam locomotives through this tunnel,
it was a dangerous business, and several crews and many passengers were
nearly asphyxiated. After these problems, and changing regulations, the
railroad decided to electrify the entire line over Steven's Pass.
The electrification started as a 3-phase synchronous system in 1909, but
this complicated system was converted to single phase a while before a
newer 8-mile tunnel opened in 1928.
This system used AC overhead, for easiest power distribution; and DC
traction motors in the locomotives. This system provided the (then) best
control and operating characteristics. The high voltage AC was first
dropped in voltage by a transformer in the loco, then the AC-DC
conversion was achieved by large rotary-converters (motor-generators) in
each locomotive. It was a heavy and complex system, but proven
technology, and used by several other railroads as well as the G.N.
A variety of lovomotives were used over the years, the largest being the
two huge W-1 class B-D+D-B units, the largest electric locos to operate
in North America.
This system was used extensively until 1956, when the electric wires
were removed. All Diesel operation through the tunnel was made possible
by installing a massive ventilation system that continues in use, with
improvements, today.
Oddly, the current railroad, BNSF, continues to study the possibility of
re-electrifying the line. The Dieselized Cascade Tunnel has now proven a
serious bottleneck with much increased rail traffic. It takes close to a
half-hour to clear the tunnel of Diesel fumes after each eastbound
(upgrade) train passes through. This must be done before another train
can enter the tunnel. Were the tunnel re-electrified, following trains
could move through much sooner, increasing traffic.
Dan Mitchell
============
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
jeff
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Steve B wrote:
>>
>> Robert Swinney wrote:
>> >
>> > Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't
>> > let the ME terrorists types know about that particular route to martyrdom.
>> > It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins; depending on which part of
>> > their anatomy they touched first.
>>
>> With my luck, the 72 of them would all look like Hillary Clinton. Enough to
>> make one consider celibacy.
>
>
> That would explain why they were virgins...
no one ever said that they were females.................
Michael A. Terrell
Who said they had to be, to look like Hillary?
Greg O
"William Wixon" <wwi...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Ridnn.38778$_v6....@newsfe08.iad...
>
>
> as kids we hung out (as much as we could/were allowed to) at the rail yard
> in maybrook ny (which, *VERY* sadly no longer exists).
My dad worked in the switch yard for a few years. I would stop by and jump
on the switch engine and ride for a while if I had nothing better to do.
Greg O
William Wixon
>
>
> My dad worked in the switch yard for a few years. I would stop by and jump
> on the switch engine and ride for a while if I had nothing better to do.
> Greg O
you were lucky! what year was that?
i went to china in 1986. they were still running steam engines there then.
i rode on passenger trains with steam engines pulling them. i thought how
cool it must be to be a chinese steam locomotive engineer. this one time we
were going through that classic chinese landscape with the terraced rice
paddies, was hilly curvy terrain. you could look ahead and see the engine
as it curved around the bends. was amazing. i had the feeling the engine
was a living thing and we were being pulled along by this fire breathing
steam belching dragon. my deep regret is i never even TRIED to get a ride
in the engine. i should've even BRIBED the engineer to get a ride in the
engine. i've heard since then they replaced all their steam with diesel or
electric and now only run special steam tourist engines.
at that time there were signs in the train stations that said you weren't
allowed to photograph the engines. i believe i heard your film would be
confiscated if you were caught photographing the engines. i have a vague
memory of standing on a train platform holding up my camera getting ready to
take a picture and the train crew just happened to be passing by and they
were waving their hands at me warning me to not take that picture. i
complied.
my second father's father was an engineer during the steam era.
b.w.
Stormin Mormon
Erie Canal. Much the same, I took a while to figure out the
steering. You have to reduce the turn of the steering wheel
well before you are pointed the direction you want. And, a
bit of reverse steer, to slow the nose of the tug from over
swinging.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Greg O" <goo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tU9nn.420278$FK3....@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
RBnDFW
Among the Afghanis and their neighbors, there is a time-honored
tradition of open homosexuality. It is likely that a good percentage of
the martyrs prefer their virgins to not be female.
Greg O
>
> "Greg O" <goo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:z8Cnn.424019$FK3.1...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>>
>> My dad worked in the switch yard for a few years. I would stop by and
>> jump on the switch engine and ride for a while if I had nothing better to
>> do.
>> Greg O
>
> you were lucky! what year was that?
Pop ran over the road in the '60s and in the mid '70s he worked in the yard,
then back on the road after I ventured out on my own.
danmitch
> Robert Swinney wrote:
>
>> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It
>> consists of a huge bank of resistors absorbing generated current from
>> the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a pod somewhere
>> on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
>
> Actually it is most of the roof of main line locos. The Diesel
> radiators are the front 1/3 or so, the back 2/3ds are the braking
> resistor array. When you hear a loco pass and there is a loud humming
> whir, that is mostly the fans on the braking resistor grid. Our house
> is a mile from the track, and those fans are the first thing I hear
> coming, and I can hear them for quite some time as the train passes.
>
> Jon
While it varys a bit from make to make, for most USA Diesel-Electric
locomotives, you have the relative locations of the engine radiators and
dynamic brake rediators reversed. The "dynamics" are normally near the
middle of the long hood behind the cab (often in a "hump" on older
locomotives). The radiators are normally at the far end of the long
hood, away from the cab.
The engine radiators are commonly about twice the size of the dynamic
brake radiators. A typical modern D-E locomotive has one or two dynamic
brake fans on the roof, and from three to four radiator fans. This does
vary a bit with the relative sizes of the fans (typically 36" or 48"
diam.). The fans are electrically driven, and controlled as needed by
thermal switches.
The dynamic brake resistor system, the main generator of the loco, and
the traction motors must be sized to approximately match one another in
capacity. Thus the traction motors (four or six) can absorb (use) the
full output of the generator in "run" mode, and then the dynamics can
absorb the full OUTPUT of the traction motors (then used as generators)
during dynamic braking.
Around locomotive shops it is common to find a complete dynamic brake
unit removed from some scrapped locomotive in use as a "load box".
During loco testing, this is connected by cables to a locomotive's main
generator, and used to "load" the generator (and Diesel engine) during
the tests. The "load box" stands-in for the traction motors, allowing
full power testing without moving the locomotive.
In addition to the rooftop fans, the locomotives also have large
internal blowers to cool the traction motors in the trucks. This air is
delivered by ductwork, some flexible to allow the trucks to pivot as needed.
There is also a large air compressor used mainly to charge the train's
air-brake system. This acivates (clutches) automatically as needed to
maintain desired air pressure. The "chugging" noise of this compressor
is usually quite audible, especially after an air-brake application
(that releases air from the system). The pressure in the train's air
line must be restored before the brakes will release again.
Altold, there is a LOT of air moving through several systems.
Gunner Asch
"women are for children, boys are for fun"
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Scott S. Logan
<wwi...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>that's horrifying. awesome (in the original definition).
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFe0846RgWc
>
>(my second father was a locomotive engineer.)
I know I'm coming in a little late on this, but I can provide some
first-hand knowledge of this incident. I was there (or, at least,
very close).
This wreck occurred on 7 Jan 2008 just north of Harvard IL. The exact
location is less than 1.5 miles from my office.
The tanker you see crashing into the locomotive was carrying ethylene
oxide, and some of the emergency workers wanted to evacuate the entire
city of Harvard (9000 residents). Fortunately, our Chief of Police
was on scene, determined there was minimal risk, and reduced the
evacuation area to a few blocks in the immediate vicinity.
All this happened due to a tornado that crossed the tracks just ahead
of the train, and the engineer threw the train into emergency stop.
Due to the strong winds, some of the rear cars, as seen, derailed.
This tornado caused a lot of damage in our area and a lot of people
around here will remember it for a long time. I was at my office at
the time, and got a couple of phone calls from friends telling me to
take cover. Unfortunately, I have almost zero cover available here.
The tornado went directly over the house of a close friend of mine,
about 1500 feet before it crossed the tracks.
A couple of days later, I sent the following email to some friends,
the link is still good.
| I was sent this link this afternoon, and the pictures are incredible. This
| is from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
|
| http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=20080107tor
|
| For those of you who are not nearby and may not have heard, we had a freak
| wintertime tornado pass just north of Harvard on Monday afternoon. Many of
| us around town are still talking about it, even though it did not actually
| hit Harvard. When was the last time you heard of a tornado in January in
| northern Illinois? According to NOAA, it has only happened once before (at
| least in the last 58 years of record keeping).
|
| Some of you called to check on us, and we can't thank you enough for your
| concern. Fortunately, as I said, this passed north of town, but due to the
| fact that a rail car carrying hazardous material (ethylene oxide) there was
| a possibility of an evacuation of the town. As it was, an area near the
| derailment WAS evacuated, but did not grow as large as was contemplated.
|
| According to NOAA, this tornado moved at an average speed of 44 MPH for over
| 13 miles.
|
| In any case, this was a lot closer than I'd ever like to be!
|
| Scott
Another video showing the tornado itself is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSKv4KZlrA
Be advised, the language is a little, uh, strong. The date at the top
of video is wrong, they apparently forgot to change the year <g>. This
tornado also caused a semi-tractor/trailer to roll over about 2.4
miles after it crossed the railroad tracks.
There is another video (actually a slide show followed by video
footage) showing the aftermath and cleanup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aB08ASei28
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - ssl "at" lathe.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.lathe.com |
| Harvard, IL |
|++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|
| Parts and Accessories for Logan Lathes and |
| Montgomery Wards Lathes |
| Logan-Lilly Mine Hoist Safety Controllers |
+--------------------------------------------+
"Measure Twice, Cut Once"
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Metal Web News - http://www.metalwebnews.com/
Help squash SPAM: http://www.cauce.org/
Robert Swinney
Very nice to see you again on RCM. We remember you well from several visits to NAMES back in
Southgate, MI. As luck would have it, we were at the same dinner several times. You may remember
my wife later mailed your daughter some ABC mementos.
Very best,
Bob Swinney
"Scott S. Logan" <s...@lathe.com> wrote in message news:agh9q5hl01bi512qo...@4ax.com...
Scott S. Logan
<jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>Scott,
>Very nice to see you again on RCM. We remember you well from several visits to NAMES back in
>Southgate, MI. As luck would have it, we were at the same dinner several times. You may remember
>my wife later mailed your daughter some ABC mementos.
Hi Bob, yes, I do remember you, your wife and the dinners. If I
recall correctly, your wife was working for Disney Radio at the time.
I still cruise RCM regularly but don't post often. Frankly, most of
what I see here now is so off-topic that I've about given up on
Usenet. Too much political crap.
Scott