4 x 6 bandsaw`
Robert Swinney
Many years ago, Grant Irwin posted an excellent piece on the care and feeding of the 4 x 6 bandsaw.
I have it in hard copy. Please advise, sending your email and I will scan it off for you.
Bob Swinney
Bob Gentry
Hi Bob
Any chance of posting a copy to the dropbox?
Thanks
rgentry at oz dot net
Dave__67
Awesome!
Email sent, assuming your email addy is real (mine was, but expired a
bit ago).
Dave
Wes
axolotl
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:13:33 -0600, "Robert Swinney"
>> Many years ago, Grant Irwin posted an excellent piece on the care and feeding of the 4 x 6 bandsaw.
>>
>> I have it in hard copy. Please advise, sending your email and I will scan it off for you.
> Hi Bob
> Any chance of posting a copy to the dropbox?
Grant has it posted on his web site.
http://tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html
Kevin Gallimore
Wes
Thanks Kevin. I need to learn the tricks of making my 4x6 work. I'm used to using
commercial saws at work that are in the 12x16 range. The 4x6 needs a bit of TLC to
perform.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Michael Koblic
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:rOChn.285132$er1.1...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
> axolotl <munge...@shorecomp.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2/25/2010 12:31 PM, Bob Gentry wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:13:33 -0600, "Robert Swinney"
>>
>>>> Many years ago, Grant Irwin posted an excellent piece on the care and
>>>> feeding of the 4 x 6 bandsaw.
>>>>
>>>> I have it in hard copy. Please advise, sending your email and I will
>>>> scan it off for you.
>>
>>> Hi Bob
>>> Any chance of posting a copy to the dropbox?
>>
>>Grant has it posted on his web site.
>>
>>http://tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html
>>
>>
>
> Thanks Kevin. I need to learn the tricks of making my 4x6 work. I'm used
> to using
> commercial saws at work that are in the 12x16 range. The 4x6 needs a bit
> of TLC to
> perform.
I just bought mine - a wonder of engineering bearing the name of Craftex. It
was on sale - that's my excuse. I studied the above FAQs as well as some
other sources on the net (you can have the links if you want). Here are some
things I have discovered which were not covered in any of the above:
1) Do not rely on the automatic cut-off. The design is poor and the
execution is even poorer. The little metal tag bends out of shape easily. It
will cut of 3 times and then fail to do so.
2) Do not release the tension on the blade between work days too much. I did
so. The next day I came to tighten it. I kept turning the knob - nothing. I
should have twigged right away, but when the going got tough and the blade
was still loose I opened the blade cover and the blade jumped at me.
3) Do not over tighten the blade tension. I know it says in the FAQ that it
is not possible - it is! When I replaced the blade I tightened it as hard as
I could as per the above advice. Something told me to check the tracking and
sure enough: The blade was running off the top wheel. I relaxed the tension
slightly and the tracking returned to normal. The blade feels reasonably
tight although I could not vouch for the recommended "0.004" deviation. It
cuts and it cuts reasonably straight.
4) The gear box oil. I have three manuals for similar saws: HF, Grizzly and
Busy bee. Two suggest changing the oil in a year replacing with "140 weight
gear oil", one says use grease. I did as the FAQ suggested and opened the
box. The oil looked reasonably clean when I drained it. I did not use
solvent or compressed air but wiped the whole thing - no trace of sand. I
could not find any 140 weight gear oil. I cannot imagine why a worm gear
would want something this thick particularly in a cold garage. I put in a
dollop of 80W-90 and it runs smoother than before: I suspect there was not
enough in the box in the first place.
I suspect that I shall discover many more foibles as I go along. Perhaps you
are lucky and have a saw from one of the better suppliers and none of this
will apply to you.
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Richard J Kinch
> I suspect that I shall discover many more foibles as I go along.
Mine never tracked right or cut straight until I replaced the blade guide
bearings. They're just standard 6202 size that are readily available.
Denis G.
> Michael Koblic,
> Campbell River, BC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have an old Keller power hacksaw like this one: http://ronreil.abana.org/hacksaw2.jpg
The shut-off switch is just a simple (easily modified) wall switch,
but it works every time. I like using the power hacksaw and made a
bunch of blades for it from discarded 1-1/2" wide bandsaw blades (from
another much larger machine). I don't know why power hacksaws aren't
more popular. It's also soothing to listen to. <g>
pent...@yahoo.com
I am slightly puzzled by the oft repeated recommendation to
release blade tension between work sessions.
I cannot see the harm in keeping a strip of steel
permanently tensioned to within a large fraction of its elastic
limit - after all this is exactly what they do when they tension
the steel wires in reinforced concrete girders.
Looking at it another way - repeatedly taking steel strip
between low stress and high stress is a fine way to induce
fatigue cracks.
With this in mind I keep my 4x6 blade permanently tensioned.
Jim
sta...@prolynx.com
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:58:51 -0800, "Michael Koblic"
>
>
>
>
>
> <mkob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> >news:rOChn.285132$er1.1...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's not the BLADE you've got to worry about, it's the saw casting!
There's barely enough metal in the frame casting to tension the blade
into the lower end of the recommended tensioning range. Yes, it CAN
be warped. Kind of like leaving a bow strung all the time. If it
starts cutting crooked, that may be one reason why.
Stan
Wild_Bill
casting is from China.
I'd consider closing C-clamps with pressure when they aren't being used as
an impractical purpose, especially since many of them aren't made as well as
they used to be 30 years ago.
I decrease the saw's blade tension when I know the saw won't be used for a
while. When it needs to be used regularly, the blade stays tensioned.
There's probably no risk in keeping the blade tensioned.
--
WB
.........
<pent...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b99go5lohb8i89aoi...@4ax.com...
Richard J Kinch
> release blade tension between work sessions.
Maybe it is a superstition descended from woodworking bandsaws which have
rubber tires that can take a print.
Wes
I was about to post the same comment. I always de-tension my woodworking band saw for
that reason.
Wes
Michael Koblic
<sta...@prolynx.com> wrote in message
news:292d3115-7916-486f...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> It's not the BLADE you've got to worry about, it's the saw casting!
> There's barely enough metal in the frame casting to tension the blade
> into the lower end of the recommended tensioning range. Yes, it CAN
> be warped. Kind of like leaving a bow strung all the time. If it
> starts cutting crooked, that may be one reason why.
>
That makes a lot of sense. In fact I wonder whether this had something to do
with losing tracking when I "over tightened" the blade. It is particularly
relevant to *my* saw. I went and had a look at similar saws at KMS Tools
today. Their cheapest 4x6 is $379. Mine was $220...
BTW it is also said of hacksaw, particularly the new ones with the improved
tensioning, that one should release them between uses. I assume it is for
the same reason - the frame will bend with time. I have a nice DeWalt frame
and forget to loosen it frequently. So far no bends. I wonder if it would be
true of a cheaper variety.
JR North
JR
Dweller in the cellar
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:27:05 -0500, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>axolotl <munge...@shorecomp.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2/25/2010 12:31 PM, Bob Gentry wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:13:33 -0600, "Robert Swinney"
>>
>>>> Many years ago, Grant Irwin posted an excellent piece on the care and feeding of the 4 x 6 bandsaw.
>>>>
>>>> I have it in hard copy. Please advise, sending your email and I will scan it off for you.
>>
>>> Hi Bob
>>> Any chance of posting a copy to the dropbox?
>>
>>Grant has it posted on his web site.
>>
>>http://tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html
>>
>>
>
>Thanks Kevin. I need to learn the tricks of making my 4x6 work. I'm used to using
>commercial saws at work that are in the 12x16 range. The 4x6 needs a bit of TLC to
>perform.
>
>Wes
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Joseph Gwinn
wrote:
I would compare the weights of the two saws. Most of the weight will be in the
castings, and for present purpose, cast iron is cast iron.
Joe Gwinn
Wes
>That makes a lot of sense. In fact I wonder whether this had something to do
>with losing tracking when I "over tightened" the blade. It is particularly
>relevant to *my* saw. I went and had a look at similar saws at KMS Tools
>today. Their cheapest 4x6 is $379. Mine was $220...
Mine was in between but I see it is sensitive to tension. The blade will start walking
off the drive wheel if I crank in too much tension.
Wes
DoN. Nichols
>
> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:rOChn.285132$er1.1...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
[ ... ]
>> Thanks Kevin. I need to learn the tricks of making my 4x6 work. I'm used
>> to using
>> commercial saws at work that are in the 12x16 range. The 4x6 needs a bit
>> of TLC to
>> perform.
>
> I just bought mine - a wonder of engineering bearing the name of Craftex. It
> was on sale - that's my excuse. I studied the above FAQs as well as some
> other sources on the net (you can have the links if you want). Here are some
> things I have discovered which were not covered in any of the above:
>
> 1) Do not rely on the automatic cut-off. The design is poor and the
> execution is even poorer. The little metal tag bends out of shape easily. It
> will cut of 3 times and then fail to do so.
Mine has worked well for years. The "brand" on mine was MSC,
and I think that the blade guides are more rigid (forged blocks with
three bearings mounted instead of bent steel).
> 2) Do not release the tension on the blade between work days too much. I did
> so. The next day I came to tighten it. I kept turning the knob - nothing. I
> should have twigged right away, but when the going got tough and the blade
> was still loose I opened the blade cover and the blade jumped at me.
I never even thought of releasing the tension. It does tend to
cause the blade to jump free of the wheels.
> 3) Do not over tighten the blade tension. I know it says in the FAQ that it
> is not possible - it is! When I replaced the blade I tightened it as hard as
> I could as per the above advice. Something told me to check the tracking and
> sure enough: The blade was running off the top wheel. I relaxed the tension
> slightly and the tracking returned to normal.
There is a setscrew below the upper bearing block which tilts it
to prevent this. As you increase blade tension the block tilts towards
the lost tracking angle, so you need to adjust this setscrew before
tightening the blade -- then you can tighten it as much as your hands
will manage to get close to the minimum tension needed for good
behavior.
> The blade feels reasonably
> tight although I could not vouch for the recommended "0.004" deviation. It
> cuts and it cuts reasonably straight.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
DoN. Nichols
Metal-working bandsaws which are designed for accepting multiple
blade widths also have the rubber tires. The 4x6 bandsaws are designed
to only accept a single blade width -- 1/2", and have a flange against
the back edge to keep it from slipping off the back, and a relief under
the teeth to keep the pressure of the wheel from bending out the set of
the teeth on the wheel side.
And I don't remember there having been a recommendation to
detension the vertical Delta which we had a work between uses. You
simply set the tension according to a built in spring scale where you
dialed in the width of the blade.
Enjoy,
Wild_Bill
addressed, sorta in the way folks refer to small Chinese lathes as being
kits that require certain finishing procedures before they're really a lathe
(not ready-to-use out of the box).
I generally take most things apart anyway, to get an idea of what I'm going
to have to deal with, inspecting, deburring and cleaning/oiling as I go.
I had my 4x6 torn down for maybe over a week before I actually started using
it. I replaced cheesy hardware and made changes to various items before
assembling it for a test run (same with the new 9x20 lathe I'd purchased
earlier).
Without exception, I'm suspicious of wiring from China, and check or replace
numerous pieces related to 120VAC.
One particular point worth checking is that the blade wheels are on the same
plane. I shimmed and adjusted as needed, so the blade would track properly
(while powered by hand, with a tap handle on the worm shaft), before I
powered the saw for a test.
My confidence is fairly low for Chinese machine motors, and I had a used
Datyon (flea mkt/garage sale $5) that had been cleaned and checked, so I
installed that after an initial test run with the original motor.
I replaced the original wiring and some of the original parts, and added
some additional hardware to help keep things aligned.
In the end, the saw would make a 5" vertical cut straight down, with only
about a blade width out-of-square.
I dunno what's going on with my web hosting, but a link to a 4x6 bandsaw
page (without pics) is available thru the Wayback machine..
http://web.archive.org/web/20070125191732/http://www.kwagmire.com/shop/saw/4x6saw.html
--
WB
.........
"Robert Swinney" <jud...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZoqdnQzDC_d5MxvW...@giganews.com...
Wes
>There are a lot of little things on a new 4x6 bandsaw that should be
>addressed, sorta in the way folks refer to small Chinese lathes as being
>kits that require certain finishing procedures before they're really a lathe
>(not ready-to-use out of the box).
Today, I put on a Irwin bimetal blade. Well I did after I filed out the casting slot that
the upper band wheel tensioning system uses. Prior to that, I couldn't get center to
center of the band wheels close enough to put the blade on. Btw, that Irwin blade is
wickedly sharp.
Wes
Michael Koblic
Praise be! I thought I was an idiot.
Don't answer that...
Wes
Heck, I thought tightening until it walked and backing off a bit was the tension
indicating system. Seems to work for me so far ;)
Wes
Richard J Kinch
> And I don't remember there having been a recommendation to
> detension the vertical Delta which we had a work between uses.
Hence my characterization of it as a superstition.
Richard J Kinch
> Today, I put on a Irwin bimetal blade.
I use a Starrett 6 tpi blade for solid aluminum stock, Enco item 990-0248.
Fewer teeth means higher pressure per tooth, which helps on this small size
saw.
John
aluminum or even 1018 steel at a slow feed rate. The mfgrs. of the
blades recommend running at lest 75 feet of blade slowly through a soft
material to take the excess sharpness off the blade. This will help
make the blade last longer.
John
Wes
>Wes wrote:
>>
>> Today, I put on a Irwin bimetal blade. Well I did after I filed out the casting slot that
>> the upper band wheel tensioning system uses. Prior to that, I couldn't get center to
>> center of the band wheels close enough to put the blade on. Btw, that Irwin blade is
>> wickedly sharp.
>>
>> Wes
>Make sure you season the new blade by cutting something soft like
>aluminum or even 1018 steel at a slow feed rate. The mfgrs. of the
>blades recommend running at lest 75 feet of blade slowly through a soft
>material to take the excess sharpness off the blade. This will help
>make the blade last longer.
>
>
>John
It seemed to want to overfeed based on the spring tension I had set. I did the old hold
the saw head by hand to slowly go though the first piece of stock I cut. I'll keep you
advice in mind on the first few cuts.
Wes
Ned Simmons
>On Feb 26, 12:47�pm, pentag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:58:51 -0800, "Michael Koblic"
>>
>> � � �I am slightly puzzled by the oft repeated recommendation to
>> release blade tension between work sessions.
>>
>> � � � �I cannot see the harm in keeping a strip of �steel
>> permanently tensioned to within a large fraction of its elastic
>> limit - after all this is exactly what they do when they �tension
>> the steel wires in reinforced concrete girders.
>
>It's not the BLADE you've got to worry about, it's the saw casting!
>There's barely enough metal in the frame casting to tension the blade
>into the lower end of the recommended tensioning range. Yes, it CAN
>be warped. Kind of like leaving a bow strung all the time. If it
>starts cutting crooked, that may be one reason why.
>
It's highly unlikely that keeping the tension on the blade will deform
the saw frame enough to matter in our lifetimes. All the references I
could find for the creep rate of gray cast iron did not bother listing
data for temps below about 700F.
--
Ned Simmons
Ned Simmons
<mko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><sta...@prolynx.com> wrote in message
>news:292d3115-7916-486f...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
><snip>
>
>> It's not the BLADE you've got to worry about, it's the saw casting!
>> There's barely enough metal in the frame casting to tension the blade
>> into the lower end of the recommended tensioning range. Yes, it CAN
>> be warped. Kind of like leaving a bow strung all the time. If it
>> starts cutting crooked, that may be one reason why.
>>
>
>That makes a lot of sense. In fact I wonder whether this had something to do
>with losing tracking when I "over tightened" the blade. It is particularly
>relevant to *my* saw. I went and had a look at similar saws at KMS Tools
>today. Their cheapest 4x6 is $379. Mine was $220...
Overtightening is a much more likely cuplrit than leaving the blade
tightened between uses.
>
>BTW it is also said of hacksaw, particularly the new ones with the improved
>tensioning, that one should release them between uses. I assume it is for
>the same reason - the frame will bend with time. I have a nice DeWalt frame
>and forget to loosen it frequently. So far no bends. I wonder if it would be
>true of a cheaper variety.
I've got to assume this is an old wives tale. Consider what would
happen to bolted connections if steel stressed to a significant
fraction of its yield strength at normal temperatures relaxed over
time.
--
Ned Simmons
Robert Nichols
<pent...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: I am slightly puzzled by the oft repeated recommendation to
:release blade tension between work sessions.
:
: I cannot see the harm in keeping a strip of steel
:permanently tensioned to within a large fraction of its elastic
:limit - after all this is exactly what they do when they tension
:the steel wires in reinforced concrete girders.
:
: Looking at it another way - repeatedly taking steel strip
:between low stress and high stress is a fine way to induce
:fatigue cracks.
:
: With this in mind I keep my 4x6 blade permanently tensioned.
There's one potential "Gotcha!" with that. The blade heats up during
use. The frame, not so much. If you tighten a blade that's been
working hard, it's going to be overtensioned when it cools unless
you relax the tension first.
--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"