Machine safety
cncmillgil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
--
BB's #37
Smoothly said
Easily read
That’s the goal
From this troll
©¿©
~gil~
stu
"cncmillgil" <mil...@cin.net> wrote in message
news:8cd6ca38-8b23-42e8...@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
--
What I don't understand about this device is why does the blade need to be
stopped so fast? It wreaks the aluminium stop which needs to be replaced
(the figure i remember is about $70) and possibly the blade as well. The
blade appears to drop fast enough that little more damage would result if it
was just left spinning. Maybe they couldnt patent that alone?
DoN. Nichols
> Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
Maybe woodworking tools -- though some (like a router, jointer
or planer) are more difficult to make that sacrificial stop for because
it depended on the large OD of the sawblade, and the sawblade died along
with the sacrifical stop.
There is a lot more room under a table saw for the emergency
stop mechanism than in most other woodworking tools, including radial
arm saws and the like.
However -- for metalworking -- Star Trek had transparent
aluminum. Do you think that they can come up with non-conductive
aluminum and steel? Sure -- for what I just spent the afternoon/evening
machineing (Delrin) no problem, except that I don't see stopping a big
lathe chuck at high speed would be as easy as stopping a circular saw
blade at similar or higher speeds.
But a secondary problem is that this requires the cutting tool
to be insulated from the workpiece mount. This means something which is
softer than steel and cast iron somewhere in the path, and thus a loss
of rigidity.
Also -- metalworking tools tend to not be moving that fast,
except for tiny high-speed milling cutters or tiny drill bits.
I don't think that it is worth the cost and the tradeoffs for
metalworking tools.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Dave__67
It is actually using the momentum of the blade to pull the blade down-
if the blade didn't stop so quickly, it wouldn't drop so quickly.
Dave
Randy
wrote:
>Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
My worry would be false trips, say goodbye to the blade and aluminum
stop. BTW, A while ago I saw a show with that same machine and they
recommended a $100 moisture meter for wood, if the wood has just a
little too much water in it the machine will trip.
Thank You,
Randy
Remove 333 from email address to reply.
John
>
>"cncmillgil" <mil...@cin.net> wrote in message
>news:8cd6ca38-8b23-42e8...@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
One wonders why they removed the guard that is fitted to nearly all
table saws and why the blade projected so far through the work when
normal practice is to have the blade only high enough to make a clean
cut.
Unless it was in order to sell a product..
John B.
Pete C.
They've been pushing that nany-saw for years, even with such corrupt
ploys as trying to make it mandatory on table saws. The bottom line is
that patent or not, it is a failed product that virtually nobody wants.
Pete C.
Well, nobody who actually does woodworking with any regularity actually
installs the guards on their saws since the guards are designed by
lawyers who have never used a saw in their lives and have no
understanding of why such guards actually increase the dangers of the
saw.
As for not setting the blade height correctly, and presumably also not
using the feather boards, push sticks and the like that are routinely
used by people who actually know how to use a saw, that is just the
usual marketing distortion trying to sell a failed product.
The big problem is that the developers of these nany-saws are so
emotionally invested in them that they can't understand why everyone
isn't jumping to buy them. They have even tried such corrupt practices
as attempting to get their product to be made mandatory on all saws.
They are basically like religious loons blindly preaching their faith to
those who are smart enough to see through it, or in this case to those
who know how to use a table saw and have no use for nany-crap.
A worse situation is with auto airbags, where I have said from the
beginning that they were a bad idea, it was proven to be a bad idea, but
they tried to redesign the bags, and now yet again it has been shown
that they are a failure and are harming more people than they help.
stu
"Dave__67" <spamT...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:af6d0ea0-9748-4514...@l25g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Dave
Oh ok, the blade appears to stop before it moves down, so I thought that
there were two mechanisms.
wow I hadn't thought about false triggering at $60US a go. Is there a "test"
function?
sta...@prolynx.com
> "Dave__67" <spamTHIS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
$60??? A lot of cabinet-making blades start at $100 and go up from
there. God knows what it would do to a dado head. The figure for the
actual stop mechanism that I saw several years back was $150 for the
parts that destroy themselves and the blade plus $600 or so for the
guts. Kind of stupid when a cheap contractor's saw runs $150 or so.
These guys are still at it, want OSHA to mandate installation on all
power saws.
OSHA's already upped the price on contractor's saws by causing the
manufacturers to make a change in the blade guard design this year.
The DeWalt guy said it can't be retro-fitted, either, has to be a
whole new saw.
Stan
Michael A. Terrell
Then there should be a lot of good used saws dumped into the hobby
marktet.
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Pete C.
stu wrote:
>
> wow I hadn't thought about false triggering at $60US a go. Is there a "test"
> function?
More than that, $60 replacement Nany cartridge, plus $60-$120
replacement ruined saw blade.
Larry Jaques
<aux3....@snet.net> scrawled the following:
>
>John wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:41 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"cncmillgil" <mil...@cin.net> wrote in message
>> >news:8cd6ca38-8b23-42e8...@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> >Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>> >
>> >
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>>
>> One wonders why they removed the guard that is fitted to nearly all
>> table saws and why the blade projected so far through the work when
>> normal practice is to have the blade only high enough to make a clean
>> cut.
>>
>> Unless it was in order to sell a product..
>>
>> John B.
>
>Well, nobody who actually does woodworking with any regularity actually
>installs the guards on their saws since the guards are designed by
>lawyers who have never used a saw in their lives and have no
>understanding of why such guards actually increase the dangers of the
>saw.
If you put your blade up high and put your hand on the wood, it will
smoothly go under the guard and be cut off your wrist. Where guards
are good is if you slip and an appendage lands on the top of the
blade. If the blade is set right, you'll get a nasty cut but not a
severed limb.
>As for not setting the blade height correctly, and presumably also not
>using the feather boards, push sticks and the like that are routinely
>used by people who actually know how to use a saw, that is just the
>usual marketing distortion trying to sell a failed product.
It's not a failed product. His attempt at extortion failed. He wants a
price for the device ($150-200), and the price for licensing is a full
EIGHT PERCENT OF THE SALE PRICE OF THE SAW! It would double the price
for a contractor's saw and add at least $400 to the price of cabinet
saws. The lawyer who invented it priced himself out of the market. As
I said on the Wreck a couple days ago, if he'd really wanted to see
everyone safe, he'd have sold licenses to the mfgrs for a couple grand
and asked a buck or two per unit sold. He'd be set for life and the
device would be on nearly every new saw sold worldwide.
>The big problem is that the developers of these nany-saws are so
>emotionally invested in them that they can't understand why everyone
>isn't jumping to buy them. They have even tried such corrupt practices
>as attempting to get their product to be made mandatory on all saws.
And not only table saws. He'll see them on bandsaws and miter saws,
too. The one thing he can't sue away is the vast amount of stupidity
out there.
>They are basically like religious loons blindly preaching their faith to
>those who are smart enough to see through it, or in this case to those
>who know how to use a table saw and have no use for nany-crap.
Not to mention that the cost of a false stop is $90 for the cartridge
and $120 for a Forrest Woodworker II blade, plus an hour to get them
and an hour to install. <thud>
>A worse situation is with auto airbags, where I have said from the
>beginning that they were a bad idea, it was proven to be a bad idea, but
>they tried to redesign the bags, and now yet again it has been shown
>that they are a failure and are harming more people than they help.
Physical damage or deafness? I understand that they're louder than a
shotgun. I hope to never hear one.
--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler
Pete C.
Physical injury and even death. There was another study that just came
out that showed that the redesigned airbags are even worse than the
originals.
Larry Jaques
yet> scrawled the following:
>Oh ok, the blade appears to stop before it moves down, so I thought that
>there were two mechanisms.
>
>wow I hadn't thought about false triggering at $60US a go. Is there a "test"
>function?
More like $200 a go. Woodworkers use expensive blades and the
replacement cartridge price hasn't gone down, it has gone up to $70
and $90 per. (reg saw/dado) Wet wood can trigger it, too.
Two other niceties for the saw: It's made in China and costs a
minimum of _twice_ the price of a comparable saw.
http://www.sawstop.com/pdf/CanadianWood_Nov08.pdf $1499 sawstop
Contractor saw, (my contractor saw was $139 from Ryobi, Griz gets
$425-700)
$3k for a Sawstop cabinet saw vs $1350 for a Grizzly.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
I have neve seen the aluminum shoe damage a blade - but $60 won't
buy the replacement part up here.
rangerssuck
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:45:06 -0600, the infamous "Pete C."
Tell that to my sister and her daughter who are alive to day thanks to
the airbags in their Honda.
steamer
>$60??? A lot of cabinet-making blades start at $100 and go up from
>there. God knows what it would do to a dado head. The figure for the
>actual stop mechanism that I saw several years back was $150 for the
>parts that destroy themselves and the blade plus $600 or so for the
>guts. Kind of stupid when a cheap contractor's saw runs $150 or so.
>These guys are still at it, want OSHA to mandate installation on all
>power saws.
--Have one; wouldn't trade it for *anything*. Cost of replacing the
module has dripped significantly; around $65 IIRC. Blades are cheaper than
they used to be too. What price a finger or the palm of your hand? More than
that I'd venture. Clumsiness isn't the only route to danger; shit happens..
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
Pete C.
steamer wrote:
>
> In rec.crafts.metalworking sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
> >$60??? A lot of cabinet-making blades start at $100 and go up from
> >there. God knows what it would do to a dado head. The figure for the
> >actual stop mechanism that I saw several years back was $150 for the
> >parts that destroy themselves and the blade plus $600 or so for the
> >guts. Kind of stupid when a cheap contractor's saw runs $150 or so.
> >These guys are still at it, want OSHA to mandate installation on all
> >power saws.
> SNIP
> --Have one; wouldn't trade it for *anything*. Cost of replacing the
> module has dripped significantly; around $65 IIRC. Blades are cheaper than
> they used to be too. What price a finger or the palm of your hand? More than
> that I'd venture. Clumsiness isn't the only route to danger; shit happens..
Clumsiness isn't the main route to danger, carelessness is. I wouldn't
allow one of those nanny saws near my shop, especially since a lot of
the time I'm not cutting wood and sometimes I'm cutting conductive
material.
Kirk Gordon
> Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>
> --
>
> BB's #37
> Smoothly said
> Easily read
> From this troll
>
>
> ���
> ~gil~
>
> http://tinyurl.com/HoldzemOnEbay
I see some potential problems, even on a table saw; but the device
only works because the blade is relatively light. Try doing an instant
stop with a 200 lb. lathe spindle and 60 lb. chuck, and the whole
machine would probably roll over and crush you to death.
KG
cncmillgil
> cncmillgil wrote:
> > Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>
> > --
>
> > BB's #37
> > Smoothly said
> > Easily read
> > From this troll
>
> >
> > ~gil~
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/HoldzemOnEbay
>
> I see some potential problems, even on a table saw; but the device
> only works because the blade is relatively light. Try doing an instant
> stop with a 200 lb. lathe spindle and 60 lb. chuck, and the whole
> machine would probably roll over and crush you to death.
>
> KG
seen lathe chucks roll across the floor almost crushing toes, running
in reverse -unthreading from the spinldle. Guess thats a good reason
to have the cam lock pins?<g>
--
BB's #15m
What's real is real
What's not is snot
Blow your fat nose
Remove a causality snot
©¿©
~gil~
steamer
>Clumsiness isn't the main route to danger, carelessness is. I wouldn't
>allow one of those nanny saws near my shop, especially since a lot of
>the time I'm not cutting wood and sometimes I'm cutting conductive
>material.
no probs.
Pete C.
steamer wrote:
>
> Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
> >Clumsiness isn't the main route to danger, carelessness is. I wouldn't
> >allow one of those nanny saws near my shop, especially since a lot of
> >the time I'm not cutting wood and sometimes I'm cutting conductive
> >material.
> --It has an override for cutting stuff like this; have used it with
> no probs.
I override by not having that threat there to begin with. I am not
careless in my shop, therefore I don't need such a nanny device.