What sort of surface plate is this?
stu
"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a very fine
finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt lined
lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate is?
pent...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
light.
Jim
stu
<pent...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cu3np5la85p48d0vc...@4ax.com...
I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The other is
220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
john
YOu could probably sell that and use the money to get a good granite
surface place and have change left for a cup of coffee or two. :)
Its way overkill for most anything you would normally want to do unless
you wanted to make yourself a set of "A" quality precision gauge blocks.
John
Randy
I've seen one, they are glass. Not sure what you have.
Thank You,
Randy
Remove 333 from email address to reply.
pent...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>
><pent...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:cu3np5la85p48d0vc...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I've just posted a picture in http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox called
>>>"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a very
>>>fine
>>>finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt lined
>>>lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate is?
>>>
>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>> light.
>>
>> Jim
>So that would be pretty flat then lol
>I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The other is
>220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>
Most optical flats are glass or quartz. I have a 6"dia x 1/2"
glass flat. Although your flats are opaque, bearing in mind the
polish, the thickness and the careful packaging, I still think
they are likely to be flat to optical precision standard
Jim.
Ed Huntress
<pent...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:chpnp5tmli6f21tp6...@4ax.com...
Stu has a couple of toolmaker's flats. They're made with a surface that
allows a gage block to be wrung to the surface, so that clamps aren't
needed. It's frequently used in gage labs for qualifying and certifying
instruments. Standard sizes are 2" and 4", so Stu's are something pretty
special. I've seen them that big, though, in Mitutoyo's qualification lab.
If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set up a
stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable accuracy.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:...
BTW, I should mention that their original purpose, which is now about 30 or
40 years out of date, was to qualify custom gages that were used in
production manufacturing -- go/no-go snap gages and so on.
--
Ed Huntress
Wes
>If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set up a
>stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable accuracy.
To another stack for comparison? Please clarify, I'm still in learning mode tonight :)
Oh, since I detest the lack of proper http links,
http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplate.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplate.jpg
Wes
Ed Huntress
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:AwUmn.63369$Jq1....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set up a
>>stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable accuracy.
>
> To another stack for comparison? Please clarify, I'm still in learning
> mode tonight :)
If you have a set of certified blocks, you can make transfers from them to
something else (a custom gage, a height gage, an electronic indicator, etc.)
and rely on the transferred dimension -- with the allowed tolerances of the
first set of gage blocks plus that of the plate.
The surfaces of these plates are lapped similarly to the gage surfaces of
gage blocks. You can apply the certified flatness of the plate, add the
cert. range of the gage blocks, and then document that height (assuming
you'd done scheduled certs. on the gage blocks) for reporting to a customer;
even a very demanding one.
A big plate like the ones that Stu has may not be in the 2 - 4 millionths
range of the smallest ones, but whatever it is, you can apply that certified
accuracy to your gaging.
--
Ed Huntress
stu
I wasn't sure that direct links was the done thing.
Thanks
Wes
>I wasn't sure that direct links was the done thing.
There are a lot of links on Usenet, many I wouldn't click on if I didn't know the target.
If I can be as bold as saying this, we tend to trust the metalworking.com Dropbox. Most
of us are not link happy newbies just experiencing the Internet so adding the full link to
that site is just fine and saves a bit of time.
Wes
stu
There are some light scratches in the small one, just behind the person it
the photo. I didn't do a very good job cleaning the block as I wasn't sure
what to use. I'm yet to clean the large one, I'll try to get onto it this
evening, but what to use? I'm guessing "kero and a rag" aren't the done
thing.
I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they have a
name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were used, but they
have no other name on them.
I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
thanks again
Stu
Ed Huntress
"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
news:4b9c2225$0$1783$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Kero and a rag isn't bad at all. Don't use anything the least bit abrasive
or corrosive to steel. No Windex. Then lightly oil it with a rag and put it
away. Wipe the oil off before using. If you're going to try wringing gage
blocks against them, clean with a solvent on the working surface, really
well, first. Paint thinner should do it.
>
> I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they have a
> name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were used, but
> they have no other name on them.
>
> I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
> thanks again
>
> Stu
You're welcome, Stu. They're interesting tools and they don't take up much
room. With scratches, you probably won't get much for them, so you'd might
as well keep them.
Do you have a set of gage blocks?
--
Ed Huntress
DoN. Nichols
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:55:03 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet> wrote:
[ ... ]
>>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>
>
> I've seen one, they are glass. Not sure what you have.
Actually -- they are quartz, not glass.
Still fully transparent -- and typically labeled around the
edge.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
stu
wipe of kero.
http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelarge.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelargeb.jpg
as you can see the isnt as good as the small one. I would think that it is
still plenty good enough for me. It will be nice to have something "flat" in
the shed, even if it is a little over the top.
I dont have gauge blocks yet although I am keeping an eye out for some, I
cant really think of an excuse to buy a new set.
Ed Huntress
"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
You may or may not have a need for them, depending upon the kind of work you
do. I don't think most hobbyists need a full set of gage blocks, but I do
find use for a few very good ones, to check my mikes, calipers, and height
gage.
But those plates you have are not something any of us would really need,
either. They're nice to have. You can get some use out of them, but it's
unlikely you'll be qualifying gages or making production gages. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
anorton
A flat like this can also be used to set the zero of lapping fixtures like
these: http://southbaytech.com/shop/mlp1.shtml . It can also be used for
things like setting the zero of a flatness gauge used to qualify lapping
plates and surface plates:
http://www.southbaytech.com/appnotes/107%2093031%20Flattness%20Monitoring%20Kit.PDF
although the spherical contacts might scratch a metal flat.
Ed Huntress
"anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:uKudnb1auKav5QPW...@earthlink.com...
Interesting stuff. Precision lapping is quite an art. We used to have a
member here who had quite a bit of experience with it, years ago.
--
Ed Huntress
anorton
I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my garage.
Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to polish
glass.
Ed Huntress
Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g> For some
reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set of
gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on his
kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
--
Ed Huntress
Joseph Gwinn
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:kIudnUtybYMNSAPW...@earthlink.com...
> >
[snip]
>
> > I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my garage.
> > Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to polish
> > glass.
>
> Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g> For some
> reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
>
> I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set of
> gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on his
> kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
These accounts would be interesting. Do you recall where you saw them?
Johannson's patent is from 1907 or so.
For a nice description of how such things were done 100 years ago, see ³Accurate
Tool Work², Goodrich and Stanley, First Edition, Eighth Impression, McGraw-Hill
1912, 217 pages. The last two chapters are on the then recently invented
Johansson Blocks, with microinch precision
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block>.
Joe Gwinn
stu
blue to see how close to each other they are. There wouldn't be a problem
with that would there?
As far as needing gauge blocks goes. All of my work so far(very limited and
not in the same league accuracy wise) is what I call "comparison measuring",
so my mic's could be calibrated in westernwigets for all it matters. As long
as they are consistent.
anorton
"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
I would not try that. You want to minimize sliding of anything on top of
these to prevent scratches. Besides, it will not tell you much. These plates
should be flat to better than 300 nanometers which is probably a little
thinner than the dye layer. You really need optical methods to test them. If
you are interested, google "making optical flats", some of those pages
outline test methods an amateur can do.
Ed Huntress
"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
Try it. If you can't get a good read, use jeweler's rouge. That's what's
used for checking iron surface plates that have been scraped; it may or may
not work better than blue on lapped surfaces.
It's difficult to spread an even coating of rouge. If you have some in a
stick, for use with a buffing wheel, take a rag, wet it with paint thinner,
and rub it good on the rouge. Then, while the rag is still wet, try wiping
an even but thin coating on one of the plates.
This is easier said than done, but it works well with finely-scraped
surfaces.
>
> As far as needing gauge blocks goes. All of my work so far(very limited
> and not in the same league accuracy wise) is what I call "comparison
> measuring", so my mic's could be calibrated in westernwigets for all it
> matters. As long as they are consistent.
That's the way it is with most hobby work. For lathe work, I just use spring
calipers most of the time.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
That's true. My suggestion of using rouge is probably of no use on such flat
surfaces.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
"Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-15C75C...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4b9ef343$0$22515$607e...@cv.net>,
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> "anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:kIudnUtybYMNSAPW...@earthlink.com...
>> >
> [snip]
>>
>> > I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my
>> > garage.
>> > Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to polish
>> > glass.
>>
>> Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g> For
>> some
>> reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
>>
>> I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set of
>> gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on his
>> kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
>
> These accounts would be interesting. Do you recall where you saw them?
The account of Johannson was in a book I borrowed from Mitutoyo's
collection. It was a rare book -- I don't recall the title.
About Dick Moore, we had all of his books at _American Machinist_, so I
don't recall that one, either. I think it was either one of his first, about
jig borers, or the late one by his son Wayne, titled _The Foundations of
Mechanical Accuracy_.
Joseph Gwinn
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:joegwinn-15C75C...@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <4b9ef343$0$22515$607e...@cv.net>,
> > "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> news:kIudnUtybYMNSAPW...@earthlink.com...
> >> >
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> > I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my
> >> > garage.
> >> > Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to polish
> >> > glass.
> >>
> >> Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g> For
> >> some
> >> reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
> >>
> >> I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set of
> >> gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on his
> >> kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
> >
> > These accounts would be interesting. Do you recall where you saw them?
>
> The account of Johannson was in a book I borrowed from Mitutoyo's
> collection. It was a rare book -- I don't recall the title.
Look at the bibliography of the Wiki entry mentioned below: does it ring any
bells?
> About Dick Moore, we had all of his books at _American Machinist_, so I
> don't recall that one, either. I think it was either one of his first, about
> jig borers, or the late one by his son Wayne, titled _The Foundations of
> Mechanical Accuracy_.
I think I have read this one. A coworker lent me a copy. It's still in print,
sold by Moore, but at an astonishing price.
Joe Gwinn
Ed Huntress
That book sounds familiar; I think I read it around 30 years ago. However,
that's not the book that had the Johannson story I'm talking about. That
book had a title that said something about the history of metrology. Sorry,
it's not coming back to me.
You're reminding me that I have to call McGraw-Hill in New York and find out
what happened to all of the old metalworking books they had in their
library. M-H sold _American Machinist_ to Penton Publishing sometime in the
'80s, but the books that had been accumulated in the corporate library via
AM may still be there. Probably not, though, because M-H no longer owns any
metalworking magazines.
I'll call and check.
--
Ed Huntress
Joseph Gwinn
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
Thanks,
Joe Gwinn
Gunner Asch
>stu wrote:
>> <pent...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:cu3np5la85p48d0vc...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu"<no where just yet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've just posted a picture in http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox called
>>>> "stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>> As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a very
>>>> fine
>>>> finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt lined
>>>> lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate is?
>>>>
>>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>>> light.
>>>
>>> Jim
>> So that would be pretty flat then lol
>> I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The other is
>> 220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>> I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>> glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>
>>
>
>
>YOu could probably sell that and use the money to get a good granite
>surface place and have change left for a cup of coffee or two. :)
>
>Its way overkill for most anything you would normally want to do unless
>you wanted to make yourself a set of "A" quality precision gauge blocks.
>
>John
Need surface plates? I still have 4 of them available for cheap.
18x24s, Standrich and 2 of them are A plates.
Really cheap.
Gunner, Central and Southern Cal.
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
stu
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jlh7q51n6scn7kfin...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:31:32 -0500, john <amd...@intergrafix.net> wrote:
>>>
>>YOu could probably sell that and use the money to get a good granite
>>surface place and have change left for a cup of coffee or two. :)
>>
>>Its way overkill for most anything you would normally want to do unless
>>you wanted to make yourself a set of "A" quality precision gauge blocks.
>>
>>John
>
> Need surface plates? I still have 4 of them available for cheap.
>
> 18x24s, Standrich and 2 of them are A plates.
>
> Really cheap.
>
> Gunner, Central and Southern Cal.
>